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GiaK

Histamine food intolerance

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GiaK

no...I don't intend to use any of them again...I feel like my body continues to heal...these things serve their purpose and then I must let them go...I see this as, in part, a spiritual journey too and somehow that is part of my lesson...non-attachment I guess you might say...

 

I do continue to get better in some ways...but it's hard to express exactly how...but again...I have a large view and as I grow in wisdom, even if I'm still disabled in many ways, I see that as improvement too...and the fact is I am less disabled in many ways too...it's just I do get frustrated that I remain so limited in numerous ways, as well..

 

hmmm...I'm not sure I've responded in a meaningful way for you or not! 

 

I hope so.

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Iggy131313

I understand, you are talking about the seperation of mind and brain yes? better in mind even when sick in brain?

 

you expressed it perfectly as always...

 

you are such an inspiration to us all, you give me strength. xx

 

But I am really trying with this histamine shizzle.....tonight Im having kale, red lentils, broccoli, and red onion, a glass of water,  followed by an apple and a pear...

 

my mum, hubby and baby boy are having buttered chicken curry, with naan bread, basmati rice and beer, then they have creme egg ice cream...

 

LOL

 

Do you eat rice? Im tempted to try a small amount?

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GiaK

I don't eat rice but I think it's safe to see if it goes okay. 

 

And if you don't mind a suggestion...high amounts of even natural sugars can spike histamine...so it might be better to have your fruit through out the day.

 

I limit myself to two pieces generally and have them at different times. Of course we are all different and part of this is just experimenting and seeing what is right for you. If you do just fine with two pieces of fruit at once...that's good. 

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GiaK

and yeah, your family's meal sounds YUM...but I'm learning to cook and have fun with this too...

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Iggy131313

thanks for the advice hon, I dont even know if I have a histamine issue, but Im having a go at this anyway!!

 

i wish I could get tested

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Iggy131313

during my window in march I ate everything, and it didnt seem to make a difference, pizza, pie, ice cream, chocolates EVERYTHING and still felt good, so maybe I havent but this diet has to be beneficial anyway

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compsports

I have had an interesting experience with apple cider vinegar. Taking two tablespoons during the day has helped with sinus congestion.  When I take it after dinner, it gives me so much energy that I get a great workout in which leads to somewhat improved sleep that I have been getting off of the cpap machine. 

 

But last night, just before I was getting ready to go to bed, my sinuses all of a sudden clogged up big time. Maybe the effect had worn off due to all the exercise I did. But since apple cider vinegar is high in histamine, I wonder if perhaps that was an issue. Or maybe all the high histamine foods I consumed led to the congestion.

 

It just seems like the foods that supposedly are good for sinuses and help with inflammation seem to be high in histamine.  I don't know. Anyway, I unintentionally ditched the mask after an hour and I am sure the congestion was an issue.

 

Gia K, I feel for you regarding not tolerating supplements.  Personally, I would be frustrated if something worked well and then when south on me.  I think that is why I am so reluctant to try anything new.

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GiaK

since things work for a time before they go south, I chock this up to lessons on impermanence...they help me and allow for healing and then I must move on...non-attachment is a good lesson on this planet  :P

 

I've done more research about bentonite clay which I mention above ...and it seems it shouldn't be taken long-term in any case as it can mess with absorption of many things...so right at the onset I know it's gonna be timelimited...but it really is helping now. 

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Iggy131313

I just realised I cant take nigella sativa because of its interactions and Im still on 0.48 of celexa...boooo

 

lasts nights meal was okish, I got all moody at everyone else eating yummy stuff and me sat there with a glass of water and an apple for a 'treat'.

 

I have decided not to be so severe with myself, I mean Im just starting out so Im going to start smaller by cutting out the highest things in histamine and then working my way through from there....Im allowing steak with baked potato, orange juice, 1 peice of fresh salmon per week, 1 chicken thigh per week, (all from the local prize winning fresh and very expensive butchers/fishmongers)

 

I will not eat and ferments, or cheese, or leftovers, and as I was eating everything up until last week, this is probably the best way to start, I can also track if anything does cause symptoms too.

 

I am very interested in how the clay is helping but Ill ask on the clay thread lol...thanks for all your advice in this

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compsports

since things work for a time before they go south, I chock this up to lessons on impermanence...they help me and allow for healing and then I must move on...non-attachment is a good lesson on this planet  :P

 

I've done more research about bentonite clay which I mention above ...and it seems it shouldn't be taken long-term in any case as it can mess with absorption of many things...so right at the onset I know it's gonna be timelimited...but it really is helping now. 

I hear you.  In my own situation, I just find it frustrating to have a moment like the movie, Awakenings, only to not have the same experience the next go around. But I guess I just have to get used to it.

 

CS

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GiaK

oh, yes, it's very frustrating and I've used the film Awakenings as an analogy too...it's been devastating at certain junctures, for sure...but given it's often my reality I try to ride with it now...that includes dealing with the disappointment too, yes. 

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Iggy131313

I Wanted to try nigella sativa but it has a drug interaction......I have read this about quercetin

 

Drug interactions[edit]

Quercetin is contraindicated with some antibiotics; it may interact with fluoroquinolones (an antibiotic), as quercetin competitively binds to bacterial DNA gyrase. Whether this inhibits or enhances the effect of fluoroquinolones is not certain.[52]

AHFS Drug Information (2010)[53] identifies quercetin as an inhibitor of CYP2C8, and specifically names it as a drug with potential to have harmful interactions with taxol/paclitaxel. As paclitaxel is metabolized primarily by CYP2C8, its bioavailabilitymay be increased unpredictably, potentially leading to harmful side-effects.[54][55]

Quercetin is described as an inhibitor of CYP2C9.[56] Quercetin is an inhibitor[57] and inducer[58] of CYP3A4 (in other words, it reduces the enzyme's activity in the short term, but the body responds by producing more of it). CYP2C9 and CPY3A4 are members of the cytochrome P450 mixed-function oxidase system, and as such are enzymes involved in the metabolism of xenobiotics in the body. In either case, quercetin may alter serum levels and, therefore, effects of drugs metabolized by these enzymes.

 

Does this mean that I cant take it whilst still on citalopram? I cant find any info? any ideas? last night I ate a chicken dinner and some malt biscuits and had the worst night of my life Im sure its histamine related

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Iggy131313

also I was wondering, what do you think is happening with our histamine receptors? Do you think that ssri use has led to the downregulation of histamine receptors which need time to heal and start to function again? that they are not working now but will in time?

 

and do you think that If I saw improvemnt with my no histamine diet that eventually the receptors would heal and I would be able to eat 'normally' again?

 

what worries me is that If I follow a no histamine diet that the body will adapt to that and therfore not heal the receptors or whatever is gong on, do you get what im trying to say?

 

whats your opinions on this?

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Iggy131313

this is an excellent histamine piece

 

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ULwLkmXqJXUJ:healthypixels.com/%3Fp%3D1044+does+exercise+release+histamine+in+the+body&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

 

looking at the H3 receptor here (which in the peice above is the one that has a major function in the CNS)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histamine_H3_receptor

 

VERY VERY INTERESTING

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GiaK

I don't know the answers to your questions...my intuition for myself (I won't generalize to others) is that I will heal...but I do think I've had histamine issues my whole life...

 

also, if you're eating biscuits it's worth considering gluten and how that might be affecting you too. 

 

I'm sorry I don't have the energy to engage this right now...but I also don't really know much about how you're coming at it at this point.

 

here is a page on gluten info if you're interested: http://beyondmeds.com/2012/07/08/gluten-2/

 

usually where there is one significant sensitivity there are a whole host of them...teasing them out is quite the adventure and everyone is different. 

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Iggy131313

thanks Gia, Im pretty convonced its histamine, a few weeks ago I had some pickle and had akathisia for 36 hours, the only thing that could have caused it was the pickles and also I ate some mayo, both as you know very high is histamine...I knew it must have been something I ate as the akathisia started at 8pm and its VERY rare for me to have such severe symptoms at night...

 

I am also mentruating which I belive causes a peak in histamine...ontop of that the malt cookies, and again became worse at night, I only realised they were malt after eating them and all the sites say avoid malt...im convinced...

 

anyway, its been 6 months that you have been on your low histamine diet now, do you still feel it has helped more than anything else?

 

My thinking earlier was the fear that by reducing histamine i would slow the healing, but thinking further perhaps it would assist the body to heal.

 

Im startinga very strict low histamine diet from today, after last nights reaction I HAVE to do something, I will let you know how I get on.

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GiaK

yes...I think it's helping and a lot...it's not the final bit though...I'm doing a lot of meditative energy work now and that strikes me as more fundamental at this juncture...but the nature of this journey (for me anyway) is that it's always changing...the more and more one listens to the body/mind/spirit and learns the more it becomes clear that it's ALL CONNECTED...everything we do matters.

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Iggy131313

I agree totally, howveer im at a point where I am unable to do anything because of the horrific aggitation, and I mean ANYTHING, all I can do is pray to die, I have to do something to try and get me to a point that I can engage with more, them thats got shall get and all that...

 

let the experiment begin, and thanks so much Gia for your help with this, maybe you could share some good reciepes you use?

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GiaK

yes...we do what we can when we can...that is how it works...you're right where you should be...I'm sorry it feels so sh*tty...I know what it's like...keep going...I promise it gets easier and it can seem forever getting there...wish I had a magic wand

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Iggy131313

me too Gia, me too. thanks for the loving words. x

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spectio

Good morning, Iggy and Gia, I've been on my version of the low histamine diet for about five or six weeks. I was like you, Iggy, with HORRIBLE daily agitation. This has been going on since before I discontinued AD's. And like you, I was just about to the breaking point. In addition to the constant anxiety, I developed horrible headaches and had accompanying dizzyness.

 

My observation is I have noticed after the first couple of weeks that I had reduced anxiety, my headaches just about totally went away, the dizzyness also improved BUT I felt more and more tired, and now, I have unmistakable issues with depression.

 

I'm back to waking up every morning at 4:30, regardless of eye mask or shade drawing and the early morning cortisol surge has been replaced by the greeting of depression first thing.

 

Gia, Has your experience been in any way similar to this?

 

This is very worrisome to me, obviously, but I fight not to over react to it.

 

It's been almost 22 months since I DC'd. Thanks for any insight!

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Iggy131313

hmmmm, how about this for a possible
 
Histadelia (High Histamine): It is estimated that 15-20 % of people with schizophrenia have high whole blood histamine levels and are under-methylated. High histamine individuals are more "Yang," have low serotonin levels and typically have a history of seasonal allergies. This condition is characterized by low levels of serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine, high whole blood histamine and elevated basophils (ie: the white blood cells that release chemicals such as histamine and play a role in the inflammatory response to infection). They tend toward obsessive compulsiveness, perfectionism, high libido, sparse body hair, and delusional thinking rather than hallucinations. High histamine individuals are inherently high in folic acid; folic acid is used along with B-12 in the production of histamine. So those with high histamine levels need to avoid taking folic acid and B-12. About 35% of bipolar patients have high histamine levels.

Histapenia (Low Histamine): It is found that 30-40 % of people with schizophrenia have low whole blood histamine levels and are over-methylated. People with low histamine are more "Yin" tend toward more severe thought disorder and hallucinations, paranoid thoughts with less pronounced obsessions, despair, depression, low libido, anxiety, nervous legs and grandiosity. These individuals often have a multitude of food allergies and environmental allergies but they do not typically have seasonal allergies. Histapenia is characterized by low blood zinc, elevated levels of serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine, low whole blood histamine, and low basophils. Those with histapenia have excess copper, which is a brain stimulant and destroys histamine; causing brain dopamine levels to rise; copper then oxidizes catecholamines such as dopamine thus propagating neurotoxin formation. This causes paranoia and hallucinations in younger individuals, but depression may predominate in the older ones. About 25% of bipolar patients have low histamine levels.

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GiaK

well...Yasmina who runs has The Low Histamine Chef website does say that she will treat exhaustion with a higher histamine food...histamine does energize...

 

there is a lot of learning on this path...and there is a sharp learning curve.

 

if you're interested there is a facebook group that I find useful...

 

it's a closed group but you can request joining... https://www.facebook.com/groups/429743787086171/

 

I couldn't possibly figure out all I'm learning without the help of others. 

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Iggy131313

of course our condtion is not ONLY histamine levels, its could be that you are now not getting enough histamine, perhaps you could try introducing a higher histamine food every so ofetn, this is awful I know, Im so sorry you are also in this state

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GiaK

NO ONE's condition is just about histamine...all of this stuff is profoundly mind/body...meditation and energy work is helping me a lot these days too. 

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Iggy131313

thats great to hear Gia, I pray for you each day....I see we both jumped in there to answer this post.

 

I think the best thing to do Spectio is to find the right balance, also levels of DAO drop before and during menstruation so histamine levels could be higher then and lower in the next couple of weeks, you could experiement with a touch higher histamine foods in the ''good'' 2 weeks of your cycle, but try to be stricter during the other 2 weeks (assuming your a girl)

 

Histamine is only one of the transmitters thats going CRAZY during this time, but I do hope that keeping my levels lower I may be able to reduce some of the crippling aggitation and maybe spend some time with my family, while I still have one.

 

do you eat any meat? maybe introduce a little meat every so often,?

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GiaK

Well this is INTERESTING...in terms of it's implications...I strongly believe histamine is an issue in much psych diagnosis:
 
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/130701080938.htm#
 
New Treatment for Schizophrenia?
 

July 1, 2013 — A research group led by professor Jesper Ekelund showed that by giving a very large dose of famotidine (200 mg daily), sufficient amounts of the drug are able to penetrate the so-called blood-brain barrier to affect the histamine system in the brain
 
Famotidine has been used for the treatment of heartburn since the 1980s, but at regular dosing, famotidine almost does not enter the brain at all, since the brain is protected by the blood-brain barrier. By increasing the dosage five-fold the drug is able to enter the brain and affect the histamine system.
 

"Already after one week the symptoms of persons suffering from schizophrenia started to decrease and after four weeks of treatment the symptoms had decreased statistically significantly. The patients that participated in the study were also positively disposed towards the treatment," says Ekelund.
 
Thirty persons suffering from schizophrenia participated in the study. The patients had been on sickness pension for at least five years and were randomly divided into two groups, one which received famotidine and one which received placebo. All of the patients who took famotidine responded positively to the treatment while the symptoms of those who were on a placebo did not change.
 
Schizophrenia is the most common and severe psychotic disorder, and is the cause of at least half of all psychiatric hospital treatment days. No randomized, controlled trials in humans that test the effect of H2 blockade in schizophrenia have been published so far.
 
Innovation in psychiatric medication urgently needed
Since 1963, when the subsequent Nobel prize winner Arvid Carlsson showed that dopamine has a central role in psychosis, the so called dopamine-hypothesis has been central in psychosis. All presently available medications for psychosis are based around this principle. Since treatment response is all too often incomplete and side effects common, there is still a great, unmet medical need for medications with other mechanisms of action. Many other signaling substances have been the focus of attention, but so far, the brain histamine system has most widely been regarded as important only with regard to side effects of many psychosis medications.
 
"Famotidine shouldn't be used directly as treatment for schizophrenia until long-term use of a dose of this size has been proved safe. However, our study shows that the histamine system in the brain offers a novel approach to treating psychosis. This should lead to increased efforts by the pharmaceutical industry to develop medications based on this histamine-based mechanism," says Ekelund.
 
Famotidine works by blocking the histamine H2 receptor. There are important neurons in the brain that use histamine as their primary signaling substance. These neurons have an important role as regulators of other signaling substances. From animal research, it is known that by affecting the histamine system, one can also affect other signaling substances that are known to be involved in schizophrenia.
 
The project has already received international recognition. Katarina Meskanen, one of the members of Ekelunds research group, was awarded the Young Scientist Award of the SCNP (Scandinavian College of Neuropsychopharmacology) and the project has been awarded substantial funding (306,000 USD) from the Stanley foundation for follow-up studies.
 
The research group will replicate the finding through a larger, multinational study in collaboration with Karolinska Institutet in Sweden, where the study is coordinated by professor Jari Tiihonen.

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GiaK

you know it's Pepcid? at high doses...

 

the thing is anti acids are BAD BAD BAD for you...we need to teach people how to eat well...that's the bottom line. 

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Iggy131313

ah! and ugh!

 

yeah its true, but lets face it, this low histamine diet is not fun. :(

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GiaK

I'm having a great time...discovering new foods and cooking up a storm...seriously...there is no need to suffer...I'm eating wonderful food...

 

Have you spent time on the Low histamine Chef's site? http://thelowhistaminechef.com/

 

and check out my recipes too in the foodie friday category on my blog...(not too many yet, I don't post most of what i cook)

 

and some of the earlier posts ARE NOT LOW HISTAMINE...so take note of that  http://beyondmeds.com/?s=%23foodie+friday

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GiaK

scroll down through the history of the foodie friday posts...there are quite a lot of recipes

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Iggy131313

thanks I will check it out, yes I have all the low histamine books, but I do find alot of the stuff a little tasteless and im VERY short on money so Im mostly eating sweet potato and red onion and nothing else lol, will check it out though, thanks

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GiaK

tasteless? if you're using herbs, salt and pepper, garlic and onion there is no need to be eating tasteless foods...I don't use the cookbooks...I just cook...with lots of all of the above. Cookbooks are good to get started though, yes. 

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kaza31

hi everyone

 

been reading these articles regarding histamine intolerance.. I just wanted to know what the general symptoms could be?

 

for a long time I have what I call sweat attacks.. where I get very hot all of a sudden and mainly on forehead side of face and neck area I can sometimes get beads of sweat dripping down. when its not even hot outside.. also this past few weeks ive been getting a rash all around my neck which is very red and itchy, on the creases in  the inside of my arms and my ears are very itchy too..

 

im withdrawing off of Effexor at moment so I don't know if this is a side effect or what..

 

I was at the doctors a couple of weeks ago getting bloods done for thyroid and iron and he said he thought it was a side effect of Effexor medication that I was getting photosensitivity to sunlight which was causing the rash.. ive been on Effexor five years never happened before so Im not sure..

 

the only food I notice that effects me is pineapple if I eat it I get a funny feeling on my tongue and it feels sore plus  my lips do so I don't eat it anymore..

I also am allergic to any tanning lotions or sprays as soon as I put it on I get rashes..

 

the rash tends to last a couple of days, ive been putting aloe vera on it which clears it, then couple days later it comes back so im thinking its something in my diet. its hard to distinguish what tho cuz I eat lots of fruit and veg etc, I don't eat red meat at all only fish and chicken and have stopped alcohol last year..

 

im just bit confused as to whats causing these rashes, any advice would be great

 

many thanks

Kx.

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GiaK

pineapple doing that is classic histamine...

 

otherwise the symptoms are all over the map and rather individual...from classic allergy symptoms (itchiness, hives etc) to excessive autonomic problems (that's my biggest problem, though I've had hives etc on a few occasions too)

 

pretty much most things that get diagnosed as mental health issues can be histamine related...

 

also histamine issues can be a part of a broader hyper-sensitivity to many foods...including gluten and dairy etc...

 

there is a steep learning curve with all this stuff and then it really never ends...I just learn more and more how to listen to my body...it is quite fascinating really.

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