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GiaK

Histamine food intolerance

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GiaK

another interesting tidbit...I share this first in another group of folks who are all histamine intolerant...and cutting and pasting below to share:

 

 I'm getting to the place where I'm learning the delicate balance of even ADDING a bit of histamine to feel better...so you were right...my crash was too low histamine (after meeting the summer solstice, since spring increased my histamine levels greatly) 

With the summer solstice all the rules changed as my histamine levels took a huge dive. I ate some pure organic sugar free cacao for the first time it about three years to correct the imbalance. It worked like magic. Seriously.

The last time I ate chocolate it made me hallucinate and trip like I was on acid...no joke...

Now, having learned to listen to my body I find that if I eat chocolate at the appropriate time...as medicine, it heals me...

what a wonder our bodies are!! 

Oh...and I made a homemade "nutella" with hazelnuts, raw cacao powder and a couple of dates...(which I'd not tried adding and am pleased to find I did fine with!) That was my medicine: NUTELLA!! Wow!

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kaza31

hi GinaK

 

thanks for your reply..

 

I think im going to try doing a food diary to keep check of any onset of symptoms.. then if I notice something correlating I can get it checked out..

 

homemade nutella, yummmmmmmmmy it sounds delicious I love nutella lol..

 

take care

Kx

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Finn

Famotidine works by blocking the histamine H2 receptor. There are important neurons in the brain that use histamine as their primary signaling substance. These neurons have an important role as regulators of other signaling substances. From animal research, it is known that by affecting the histamine system, one can also affect other signaling substances that are known to be involved in schizophrenia.

 

 

So, is this research suggesting that excess histamines might be partially behind symptoms of psychosis?

 

The Wiki page on histamines says: "Metabolites of histamine are increased in the cerebrospinal fluid of people with schizophrenia, while the efficiency of H(1) receptor binding sites is decreased. Many atypical antipsychotic medications have the effect of increasing histamine turnover."

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GiaK

I am quite sure that histamine has some thing to do with some psychosis as well as it being involved in a variety of other phenomena that is labeled psychiatric...I've written about that in my histamine posts which have been included in this thread as I've seen much evidence of it...including, yes, psych meds are often anti-histamines as well as whatever else they do.

 

I do believe that this study suggests such as well. 

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GiaK

MORE INFO on Histamine Intolerance posted on Beyond Meds today

 

Histamine Intolerance: can be associated with folks getting psych dx http://wp.me/p5nnb-9tW

 

includes lots of links and videos too...it's a long post! 

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btdt

Ok I came here today to find a cure for a rash and maybe for a new poster on another site who's husband has hives post fast effexor withdrawal.  

I am sick taking an antibiotic that increases histamine... oh ya had to be that one. Cefuroxime. 

I too had skin issues in the beginning more like sores that were infected had them for years they still come.  Another sort of rash or sores that come in the exact same place when I am under stress that ooze crust over and eventually go away.  And rashes... all kinds of them one I have now is like I have been scalded with hot water itches and burns and the last trip to the dermatologist earned me a cream for infection that made it worse.  I have the same issues creams of any kind and have stopped using all body products other than shampoo and Cetaphil gentle face cleanser.  I do use antiperspirant on special occasions.  

I am surprised to find others who can't use creams same as myself.  I was thinking it was an allergic reaction which had nothing to do with withdrawal or ssri snri drugs.  

I am taking the cefuroxime for a lung and possible tooth infection.  It has completely wrecked my digestion at this point I am eating tons of probiotics to try and get thru the end of this prescription.  

I am not sure what prebiotics are and would like to know if prebiotics would be in any way better.  

Since I am not feeling well I only got half of what I was trying to get out of this thread and will have to come back and re read when I am better if anyone has any ideas for this ongoing 7month rash... that is not drug related.. let me know.  Any hints of how to deal with side effects of antibiotics I am all ears.

I wanted to add my voice to this discussion and hopefully we can find some answers by working together.  

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btdt

I am curious if anyone else here is sensitive to cleaning products?  I seem to sensitive to many and I have noticed Costco cleaning products to be the worst...but others are bad too.  Dishwasher soap gives me numb lips and dizziness.... as do kirkland fabric softeners  I have to leave the house when people use them.  I have given all those cleaners away or tossed them.  Walking thru the cleaner section at Walmart can make me ill.  

Can no longer use nail polish hair dye cosmetics... yep quite a plain Jane these days.  Anyone else??

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btdt

 

Apr 1, 2004 - Part of the cytoprotective effect of taurine may result from its ability to decrease the release of histamines, interrupting the inflammatory pathway  ...

 

I posted some where on sa that I found taurine to help calm my cns on a hunch today I did a search don't have time to follow it up now but there is if you want to take a look. 

 

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btdt

I have found this idea that baking soda can lower histamine found it here..

.

There are several things that can be done to help reduce histamine symptoms at an acute level.  The herb Stinging Nettle can help and can be taken as a tea, tincture, or dried herb capsule.  One good brand of herbs available at many health food stores is Oregon's Wild Harvest.  High quality nettle can also be ordered from Mountain Rose Herbs.  AlkaSeltzer Gold is also effective but be sure to use the "gold" version and not the regular formulation.  This seems to work by triggering the release of pancreatic enzymes (baking soda also does this, but the effervescent quality of AlkaSeltzer means that it gets through the stomach much more quickly).  Lastly, epsom salt baths can be helpful.  For an acute situation use 1 cup of salts in the tub unless you are known to be sensitive to it.  Epsom salt cream or lotion can also be purchased (from Kirkman) and made if a bath is not a viable option.  I bought the lotion from Kirkman because Roo is very resistant to taking a bath (a residual sensory symptom?).

 

My mother in the old day would make her own home made Alka Seltzer with a glass of water  tsp of baking soda and white vinegar.  I tried this when my gerd was acting up and I had nothing to treat it and it really did help. 

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btdt

I have been doing a lot of reading about this subject and trying to join the dots as to how this could be related to Ad use.  There may be a hint in this article here.

 

http://histamino.wordpress.com/category/histamine-intolerance/symptoms-of-histamine-intolerance/

 

I intend to read it again as so far just did the skimming read.

 

One thing I have read tho I don't know how true it is...

baking soda can lower the histamine in your body plain old baking soda.

Now I am wondering if I posted that bit of info already... :) woops if I did.

 

I hope some others would read this article and perhaps we can discuss it further.

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Iggy131313

Gia, hae you had your tryphase levels checked? mine were 3.06 which is apparently low.normal/// i wonder if this means anything

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btdt

 

Well this is INTERESTING...in terms of it's implications...I strongly believe histamine is an issue in much psych diagnosis:

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/130701080938.htm#

 

New Treatment for Schizophrenia?

 

July 1, 2013 — A research group led by professor Jesper Ekelund showed that by giving a very large dose of famotidine (200 mg daily), sufficient amounts of the drug are able to penetrate the so-called blood-brain barrier to affect the histamine system in the brain

 

Famotidine has been used for the treatment of heartburn since the 1980s, but at regular dosing, famotidine almost does not enter the brain at all, since the brain is protected by the blood-brain barrier. By increasing the dosage five-fold the drug is able to enter the brain and affect the histamine system.

 

"Already after one week the symptoms of persons suffering from schizophrenia started to decrease and after four weeks of treatment the symptoms had decreased statistically significantly. The patients that participated in the study were also positively disposed towards the treatment," says Ekelund.

 

Thirty persons suffering from schizophrenia participated in the study. The patients had been on sickness pension for at least five years and were randomly divided into two groups, one which received famotidine and one which received placebo. All of the patients who took famotidine responded positively to the treatment while the symptoms of those who were on a placebo did not change.

 

Schizophrenia is the most common and severe psychotic disorder, and is the cause of at least half of all psychiatric hospital treatment days. No randomized, controlled trials in humans that test the effect of H2 blockade in schizophrenia have been published so far.

 

Innovation in psychiatric medication urgently needed

Since 1963, when the subsequent Nobel prize winner Arvid Carlsson showed that dopamine has a central role in psychosis, the so called dopamine-hypothesis has been central in psychosis. All presently available medications for psychosis are based around this principle. Since treatment response is all too often incomplete and side effects common, there is still a great, unmet medical need for medications with other mechanisms of action. Many other signaling substances have been the focus of attention, but so far, the brain histamine system has most widely been regarded as important only with regard to side effects of many psychosis medications.

 

" shouldn't be used directly as treatment for schizophrenia until long-term use of a dose of this size has been proved safe. However, our study shows that the histamine system in the brain offers a novel approach to treating psychosis. This should lead to increased efforts by the pharmaceutical industry to develop medications based on this histamine-based mechanism," says Ekelund.

 

Famotidine works by blocking the histamine H2 receptor. There are important neurons in the brain that use histamine as their primary signaling substance. These neurons have an important role as regulators of other signaling substances. From animal research, it is known that by affecting the histamine system, one can also affect other signaling substances that are known to be involved in schizophrenia.

 

The project has already received international recognition. Katarina Meskanen, one of the members of Ekelunds research group, was awarded the Young Scientist Award of the SCNP (Scandinavian College of Neuropsychopharmacology) and the project has been awarded substantial funding (306,000 USD) from the Stanley foundation for follow-up studies.

 

The research group will replicate the finding through a larger, multinational study in collaboration with Karolinska Institutet in Sweden, where the study is coordinated by professor Jari Tiihonen.

 

I was given this drug in emerg for stomach pain after an accident last year.  

Had a broken rib pneumonia slept sitting up as I would choke if I laid flat. 

This was part of the treatment.  

A second bought of pneumonia raised the dose to double. 

Within a few days I was have suicidal thoughts out of the blue.. hit like bam. I have been thru this often enough to know this was likely a drug reactions so I looked it up and sure enough 40mg was enough to reach my brain maybe my blood brain barrier is not what it should be due to all the antidepressants I have taken that would not surprise me at all. 

Side effect depression... is one of them... google 

Emphasizes the medication famotidine (Pepcid), a drug used in promoting the ...Major side effects include agitation, anemia, confusion, depression,

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yidaki

Hi GiaK,

 

I have found your story very interesting as I can relate somewhat to various aspects of it. I use to take Zoloft for roughly 8 years. Then, for two years, I took Lexapro. Currently, I am on no psychotropic drugs. I have been drug-free for over a year now. Back in 2005, I began experiencing digestive issues mainly heartburn. At this time, I had been taking Zoloft for two years. The heartburn eventually went away. In 2008/09, my digestive symptoms flared up once again. I had all the tests done and came back with a diagnosis of GERD/NERD and fatty liver. I healed the fatty liver by losing weight and stopping Zoloft and switching over to Lexapro. I also took Pariet (PPI drug) for a year. My digestive symptoms stopped again. In 2013, I decided to stop the antidepressants all together as I had enough cognitive tools to deal with my anxiety. I stopped Lexapro in January 2013. In late January 2013, my symptoms flared up bigtime. Since then, I have experienced daily heartburn, indigestion, throat burning, painful throat, pretty much the whole works when it comes to digestion.

 

I have been working with a naturopath to try and heal things naturally. However, nothing has really worked. It was only yesterday that I came across your writtings on histamine and antidepressant use. I have always believed that the antidepressants did something to my digestion. Coming across your article has given me some hope now as I will investigate this area as a potential reason for my daily struggles. I can bearly eat any food without getting a reaction. This is bizarre considering that my IgG Food Sensitivity Test only revealed 9/90 sensitive foods.

 

I will keep researching into this as you have done.

 

Thanks

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GiaK

you know for heartburn I've found the body of Chris Kressers work really great...my mother had severe GERD...to the point that surgery was recommended...which is when I stepped in and shared his work with her...she's fine now and didn't have to get surgery.

 

 

there is a collection of his articles on the topic here: http://beyondmeds.com/2012/06/28/acid-reflux-meds/

 

that page is no longer on his blog! the link goes to an e-book...but the links that I copied and pasted still go to his free articles on his blog... 

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btdt

I think people interested in this topic may well be interested in this article 

The pathogenesis of EMS remains unknown. The 3 major pathological findings observed in persons with EMS include (1) capillary endothelial cell hyperplasia, with evidence of swelling and necrosis; (2) inflammatory cell infiltration, including monocytes, histiocytes, lymphocytes, macrophages, and plasma cells, and, occasionally, eosinophils in nerve, muscle, and surrounding connective tissue (eg, the subdermal fascial layer [fasciitis]); and (3) increased fibrosis, mostly in fascia but also occasionally in skin.

Levels of cytokines interleukin (IL)–2, IL-4, IL-5, interferon gamma, and granulocyte-monocyte colony stimulating factor (GMCSF) are increased in the serum of some patients with EMS. Serum soluble IL-2 receptor (sIL-2R) levels were elevated in 7 patients with EMS compared with controls. Injection of EBT in rodents caused inflammation in the dermis, fascia, and perimysium. In addition, EBT stimulates fibroblast proliferation and collagen synthesis in vitro, but eosinophilia does not develop in EBT-treated animals. The precise role of this contaminant in the pathogenesis of EMS remains uncertain.

It may be unnecessary to implicate L-tryptophan impurities in the development of EMS. Excessive oral ingestion of tryptophan supplement inhibits histamine degradation by increasing formation of formate and indolyl metabolites, several of which block the degradation of histamine, thereby potentiating its effects. Increased histamine activity is known to induce peripheral blood eosinophilia and myalgia.[8] Furthermore, patients with hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis dysregulation who do not have EMS also manifest greatly increased sensitivity to ingested tryptophan and histamine. Histamine disequilibrium appears to be a final common pathway for syndromes characterized by eosinophilia with myalgia.

 

 

I did cherry pick a tiny bit but the rest is interesting too.. found here

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/329614-overview#a0104

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btdt

I saved this link long ago when I had a reaction to lidocaine and learned it was an amine

http://aminerecipes.com/what-are-amines/

 

I did not know it had anything to do with histamine at the time this thread was not here yet I hit on it by accident today... bit of what it says

 

I am not joining the dots too well just now but maybe somebody else can joint them I think it relates will have to get back to it as today is not my day to shine. 

 

"When you eat a food high in amines, the histidine it contains is metabolized by enzymes and bacteria to amines which are quickly absorbed in the gut and, in people who are sensitive, an allergy-type of response occurs.  The end result is widening of blood vessels, tissue inflammation and swelling just as our own natural histamine creates.

Tyramine vs Amine and More…
 
Tyramine is a type of amine, just as histamine is a type of amine.
Those on MAOI’s must reduce tyramine rich foods, but can tolerate foods high in histidine because they are broken down differently in the body by different enzymes.  Tyramine uses monoamine oxidase, while histamine uses diamine oxidase and other enzymes.
Taking diamine oxidase may help you to tolerate foods high in amines, but may not help you if you have a tyramine intolerance.  And remember, it takes two sets of enzymes to break down histamine, so the diamine oxidase will only help if it is the enzyme you’re lacking.
Salicylates are not considered amines. They are a totally separate form of food chemical.  They may stimulate histamine response, but are not considered amines themselves."

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btdt

Variations in amine concentration is caused by:
1. the source of the foodstuff – proteins can provide the nitrogen in amine production

2. storage conditions – amines increase in the aging of meats and maturing of cheeses

3. fermentation – in brown [fermented] sauces and in Vegemite, Promite and Marmite

4. method of preparation – amines increase at particular temperatures and in browning

5. time, amines increase with storage before and after cooking, and during aging

6. temperature – amines are produced at ideal temperatures for enzyme function

7. acidity – lower acidity increases the amount of amines produced

8. cooking – increases volatilisation and decreases content

An increase in flavour intensity – sharpness – is associated with increased levels of amines.
Different amines are increased during deterioration (putrefaction) of food.

The research literature does acknowledgement individual variation in tolerance. This is known from clinical reports of reactions in people on MAOI medication. Different people may react to particular amines, or at particular doses. Diet detective work can help you work out just what you need to be careful about. See Are You Food Sensitive?

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NoMeaning25

Hi GiaK. I really need some advise. I am currently on a very bad diet mainly consisting of junk food and high in sugars. Ive lived like this my whole life and i think its time to start eating healthy. I want to move over to the anti-histamine diet. How will i do this? Do i first start slowly removing the sugar from my diet then gradually change over? I know there will be detox/withdrawal effects if i stop what im eating "cold turkey" just looking for the safest way to switch over to this diet without serious problems.

 

Where do i start? Any info would be appreciated very much

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GiaK

yeah...I think you should try to remove things slowly...and trust your body and your powers of observation to guide you...there isn't an exact way to do this...but fundamental change for most people is easiest to do when done slowly. 

 

there is a concept with changing diet called "crowding out" in which you don't cut stuff out so much...but instead start adding good foods...which allow you to let go of old habits...

 

so you might think of really good healthy nutrient dense foods to ADD to your diet rather than concentrating on what you want to exclude...

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NoMeaning25

yeah...I think you should try to remove things slowly...and trust your body and your powers of observation to guide you...there isn't an exact way to do this...but fundamental change for most people is easiest to do when done slowly. 

 

there is a concept with changing diet called "crowding out" in which you don't cut stuff out so much...but instead start adding good foods...which allow you to let go of old habits...

 

so you might think of really good healthy nutrient dense foods to ADD to your diet rather than concentrating on what you want to exclude...

 

 

Very good advise, thank you very much! I will definitely start adding healthy foods and then slowly eliminate the bad ones.

 

I will let you know if i notice any changes.

 

Sorry - a bit off topic but I am also possibly sitting with Endometriosis. I have not been officially diagnosed as i am too scared to go for a Laparoscopy because of my severe sensitivities. I see on your blog you had this condition and you cured it. Where can i find out more?

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GiaK

I healed endometriosis during this time...by working on healing the withdrawals syndrome (and all my health issues)! see:  http://beyondmeds.com/2013/01/08/endo-natural/

 

because, basically everything is connected...being healthy is a holistic endeavor 

 

good luck!

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NoMeaning25

Thank you so much GiaK. Will look into it

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alexjuice

I don't have histamine problem per se but have experienced generally good result with a standard process supllement called antronex for my liver. In researching it I found people have benefitted from it for histamine problems. Standard process is a huge whole food supplement company that is sold throughout north america by alternative health practitioners, beware gluten/allergens though antronex has no gluten and hasn't caused me a problem.

 

Reviews on amazon:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Standard-Process-Antronex-330-T/dp/B0019FUFEQ

 

http://www.standardprocess.com/Products/Standard-Process/Antronex

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=antronex+histamine&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

 

EDIT: Recommend seeing a good practitioner to investigate this. The antronex has a lot of action aside from histamine. Good luck to all.

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Meimeiquest

For what it is worth, the people at Mensah Medical believe the histamine level, low or high, is a critical divider.

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btdt

For what it is worth, the people at Mensah Medical believe the histamine level, low or high, is a critical divider.

Could you please explain what you mean by " a critical divider"

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Meimeiquest

They think it is the people with high histamine who have the severe homicidal, suicidal ideation with SSRI's. They call them overmethylators. They believe people with low blood histamine are undermethylators, and that they tend to do well on SSRI's. Not that they are recommending SSRI's. Given your research bent, you might want to check them out: mensahmedical.com. It is orthomolecular medicine.

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btdt

Thanks for the info I may get to that one day.  I just don't see how it would help me now given the damage it done I hope it is done anyway.  

I did check into  orthomolecular medicine there is a center in central Ontario that does this.  By the time I was well enough to find it I was already broke and unable to work to make any money they charge 500 dollars for an assessment... so no mon no fun... and nowdays no health either.  Wish I had been more inclined to research things when I was drugged but that would have been impossible due to my manic ways...too busy destroying myself and my life when I was drugged I had money... lol just how this goes I guess.

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btdt

They think it is the people with high histamine who have the severe homicidal, suicidal ideation with SSRI's. They call them overmethylators. They believe people with low blood histamine are undermethylators, and that they tend to do well on SSRI's. Not that they are recommending SSRI's. Given your research bent, you might want to check them out: mensahmedical.com. It is orthomolecular medicine.

I went to their site and took a look seems they are selling a service same as the place I contacted.  So I am curious since they don't seem to post their ideas on the site I was just at how do you know they " believe the histamine level, low or high, is a critical divider" did you try their service or did my search turn faulty on me as I searched and got nothing?

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Meimeiquest

Hit the Resources tab. There are links to articles and videos and other sites.

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btdt

I found a site thru the links where you can get the test IF you happen to this it relevant and have money

https://pyroluriatesting.com/shop/metabolic-panel-includes-kryptopyrrole-serum-copper-zinc-plasma-whole-blood-histamine/

 

In this one they are testing for pyloria and histamine both I think. 

Metabolic Panel (includes Kryptopyrrole, Serum Copper, Zinc Plasma, Whole Blood Histamine)

$235

 

For the want of so little money I may do the testing... I use to spend that on dinner now it is food for a month. How things change. 

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btdt

 

Metabolic Panel + Clinical Consultation

$435

 

of course it is better if you can travel to have this consult in person.   more loot

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Meimeiquest

It is an enormous conundrum...people who are sick don't have money. Doctors with unusual ideas aren't covered by insurance. So sick, broke people should take conventional meds. Dr. Walsh (a chemist, not a doctor) is actually speaking to the APA in upcoming weeks. He needs funding for double-blind studies which they haven't been able to afford. I thought about trying to figure it out myself, but I just can't. Personally, I wouldn't think much of it, but as I read of it, I saw that my sister's doc has used this method, and has taken her off 17 years of Prozac with a two week taper....and it apparently worked!

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btdt

It is an enormous conundrum...people who are sick don't have money. Doctors with unusual ideas aren't covered by insurance. So sick, broke people should take conventional meds. Dr. Walsh (a chemist, not a doctor) is actually speaking to the APA in upcoming weeks. He needs funding for double-blind studies which they haven't been able to afford. I thought about trying to figure it out myself, but I just can't. Personally, I wouldn't think much of it, but as I read of it, I saw that my sister's doc has used this method, and has taken her off 17 years of Prozac with a two week taper....and it apparently worked!

What!!!    are you joking?  

now I am going to have to look into you...lol just to see if your real but I don't have the brain for it today...lol 

I hope your for real

17 years and no withdrawal.. 

she could be one of the few blessed people we hear of all the time... 

do you think she is has she tried to get off before and had withdrawal?

What is she doing now that is different than other attempts if she has tried and had withdrawal before... 

I don't know how I feel about this.. the idea there was an answer all this time and I failed to find it has mixed bitter sweet feeling for me... madness and joy both... mixed. 

I hope it is true but in the years I have been doing this I have heard of many many "cures" that weren't.  

So I am not convinced that easily. 

Will she come here herself and tell me?

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btdt

It is an enormous conundrum...people who are sick don't have money. Doctors with unusual ideas aren't covered by insurance. So sick, broke people should take conventional meds. Dr. Walsh (a chemist, not a doctor) is actually speaking to the APA in upcoming weeks. He needs funding for double-blind studies which they haven't been able to afford. I thought about trying to figure it out myself, but I just can't. Personally, I wouldn't think much of it, but as I read of it, I saw that my sister's doc has used this method, and has taken her off 17 years of Prozac with a two week taper....and it apparently worked!

Sorry for saying I was checking into you... that was stupid.

I read you bio drug history... you have been there too. 

Are you going to try what you sister is doing or are you waiting and watching for awhile since you likely have learned withdrawal can take a long time to hit with prozac it may be even longer as in months actually some other drugs withdrawals take months to hit too... sorry M for being a jack ass I wish you peace and I hope this is the answer. for some at least it very well could be the answer for some  if not all but maybe all.. time will tell

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btdt

It is an enormous conundrum...people who are sick don't have money. Doctors with unusual ideas aren't covered by insurance. So sick, broke people should take conventional meds. Dr. Walsh (a chemist, not a doctor) is actually speaking to the APA in upcoming weeks. He needs funding for double-blind studies which they haven't been able to afford. I thought about trying to figure it out myself, but I just can't. Personally, I wouldn't think much of it, but as I read of it, I saw that my sister's doc has used this method, and has taken her off 17 years of Prozac with a two week taper....and it apparently worked

What exactly is he trying to study... please.  

maybe we could start on online fund raiser lots of folks in withdrawal a few bucks from each would add up

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