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King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

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greenfrog

I have been taking NutraSea HP Eco omega 3 spa/dha for the last month in order to help my aching feet joints, and I'm glad to see that it will also help with withdrawal symptoms. I have been told that it takes 4-6 weeks to kick in for the joint pain, but I think it's starting to help. 

 

I'm taking soft gels, but I might try the liquid next time if I can remember the dosage info…Oh yeah, it's supposed to help with memory too, but I'm not sure I remember... ;)

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Galandriel

I'm a little bit confused about the dosage. The Following is written on my pills:

Fish Oil Concentrate 1000 mg

Omega-3 Fatty Acids 600 mg

EPA (Eicosapentaenoic acid) 400 mg

DHA (Docosahexaenoic acid) 200mg

Do I understand it right, that a amount of 2000-3000mg would be good, so this would mean 4-5 capsules per day?

Just to know what do do, when the orderd softgels will arrive...

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Altostrata

Yes, 4-5 capsules a day. It's the EPA and DHA total that's important.

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Newbeginning

My 2 cents on fish oil,

 

*Caps never worked for me. Only liquid form did. It might seem harder to tolerate, but it's not. Easier to swallow one tablespoon oil than 10 capsules to get the equivalent DHA/EPA quantity. Also, the brand I take does not taste too fishy, but rather lemony; can even add it to salads. I don't like fish too much, but I can tolerate this. It's also much easier on the stomach than caps (no aftertaste or burps).

 

*Carlson's is the brand that worked for me. Iherb is a good store to buy from because they keep a fresh supply, are careful about storage and ship quickly for free, which helps prevent exposure to light/heat, which can oxidize oil. If you buy another brand, make sure container is dark amber preferably glass to protect from light exposure.  Here's a link to the Carlson's product I take: http://www.iherb.com/Carlson-Labs-The-Very-Finest-Fish-Oil-Lemon-16-9-fl-oz-500-ml/2796#p=1&oos=1&disc=0&lc=en-US&w=carlson%20liquid&rc=21&sr=null&ic=3

 

*Fish oil helped with motivation and mood and apathy, but have not tried for withdrawal symptoms. Will try now. Just ordered some.

 

*Be patient because with me I only saw results after about 8 weeks of taking one tablespoon daily.

 

*Someone mentioned that fish oil can thin blood. This is a problem with higher doses, especially if combined with other blood thinners like aspirin or coumadin. This is a good summary of precautions to take when taking fish oil, especially in high quantities, such as interactions with other supplements or drugs: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/993.html#Safety

 

*Make sure the fish oil you take does not contain excessive amounts of vitamin D or A, which can be toxic.

 

*Some meds and supplements that prevent the body from absorving oil can prevent fish oil from being effective. These includes weight loss supplents./meds like Orlistat (Xenical, Alli) and Conjugated Linoleic acid (CLA).

 

Hope some of this helps.

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Newbeginning

I agree Alto. It is mainly with higher doses and the risk is mild to moderate (depending on each person, I suppose). If someone is taking more than 3gr/day along with anticoagulants, I'd be attentive to easy bruising or new bruising or other signs of internal bleeding, but I don't think people should avoid taking fish oil just because they're taking anticoagulants.

 

I could not open that article (requires registering to Medscape).

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Altostrata

I agree, Newbeginnings. (Medscape requires a free registration.)

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compsports

There is very little evidence that fish oil poses any kind of danger taken with anticoagulants. Its properties as a blood thinner are probably greatly exaggerated. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/554507_4

As an FYI, a fish oil pill I took yesterday seemed to stop a blood pressure spike.   So if I can establish definite correlation that it lowers blood pressure which I would need to do with careful logging and measurements, then if I am asked to discontinue it in preparation for yet to be unscheduled surgery date because of its alleged blood thinning properties, then obviously I would have a discussion about this.

 

Of course, this is all theoretical and I don't have definite proof of anything.  So this could all be moot.  But stay tuned.

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Newbeginning

 

There is very little evidence that fish oil poses any kind of danger taken with anticoagulants. Its properties as a blood thinner are probably greatly exaggerated. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/554507_4

As an FYI, a fish oil pill I took yesterday seemed to stop a blood pressure spike.   So if I can establish definite correlation that it lowers blood pressure which I would need to do with careful logging and measurements, then if I am asked to discontinue it in preparation for yet to be unscheduled surgery date because of its alleged blood thinning properties, then obviously I would have a discussion about this.

 

Of course, this is all theoretical and I don't have definite proof of anything.  So this could all be moot.  But stay tuned.

 

 

Hi Compsports,

 

I think it depends on how much you're taking and whether you're taking other stuff like aspirin that also thins blood. Just to be on the cautious side, I'd highly recommend you stop it before surgery. For all you know, it might have more of a blood thinning effect on you than it has on other people. Regardless of the results of your observations, it's better not to take the risk of uncontrollable bleeding during surgery!

 

Consult with your dr about how many days in advance of surgery you should stop it.

 

Good luck and if you have surgery, I wish you prompt recovery :)

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Knight

EVERYONE WITH DEPRESSION:
 

 

Please take a Fish oil supplement. I do not have depression, but take the fish oil for ADHD... I can tell you something.... The fish oil is extremely good.

 

Example:

Even if things are bad in life, its like you apply yourself to that and be happy, or to become happyier other ways. Overall it EXTREMELY STABLES YOUR emotional health.

 

- EPA/DHA (Omega 3), Take it each day!!!!
 

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compsports

 

 

There is very little evidence that fish oil poses any kind of danger taken with anticoagulants. Its properties as a blood thinner are probably greatly exaggerated. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/554507_4

As an FYI, a fish oil pill I took yesterday seemed to stop a blood pressure spike.   So if I can establish definite correlation that it lowers blood pressure which I would need to do with careful logging and measurements, then if I am asked to discontinue it in preparation for yet to be unscheduled surgery date because of its alleged blood thinning properties, then obviously I would have a discussion about this.

 

Of course, this is all theoretical and I don't have definite proof of anything.  So this could all be moot.  But stay tuned.

 

 

Hi Compsports,

 

I think it depends on how much you're taking and whether you're taking other stuff like aspirin that also thins blood. Just to be on the cautious side, I'd highly recommend you stop it before surgery. For all you know, it might have more of a blood thinning effect on you than it has on other people. Regardless of the results of your observations, it's better not to take the risk of uncontrollable bleeding during surgery!

 

Consult with your dr about how many days in advance of surgery you should stop it.

 

Good luck and if you have surgery, I wish you prompt recovery :)

 

Thanks Newbeginning.   I cancelled surgery which is a whole other topic.

 

Interestingly, when I had an interview with the surgical nurse, she admitted there weren't any solid studies that showed fish oil caused thinning of the blood.   She admitted it was more a precaution.  I really appreciated her honesty on that and if I had gone through with it, would have definitely complied if I had been on them.

 

Anyway, I am trying to get my body stabalized by cutting out caffeine which I feel is spiking my blood pressure.   But at some point, i am going to try fish oil capsules again because I definitely need the cognitive boast.

 

CS

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Barbarannamated

It's just frustrating, Omega 3's seem to be one of the few things that reliably help people during withdrawal and for whatever reason they're activating for me..yet for some reason I keep trying them.

You're not alone, Narcissus. I just tried 1 cap of Barleans Omega 3 fish oil today and mood went downhill rapidly. Second time this happened.

 

Albion chelated magnesium glycinate also effected me badly (light, choppy sleep, depressive). I seem to be paradoxical all around.

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jr1985

Is it possible for omega-3 to help anxiety at first but then worsen it over time? I think this has happened to me. I suspect it must build up in your brain over time and after it reaches a certain level the effects can be detrimental.

 

I'm going to try and slowly reduce it to see if I can each a level where it helps with anxiety without withdrawals. Alto suggested I try flax seed oil in my intro thread but I'm scared to change in case it makes things worse.

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johnson

This is an article from last Christmas. I don't think the benefits claimed by taking fish oils are actually proven.

One thing is for certain, the industry is making huge amounts of money from selling fish oil supplements.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/16/us-fish-oil-sales-dont-reflect-evidence-idUSBRE9BF1DH20131216

 

Here's another one from Harvard

http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/fish-oil-friend-or-foe-201307126467

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Newbeginning

Is it possible for omega-3 to help anxiety at first but then worsen it over time? I think this has happened to me. I suspect it must build up in your brain over time and after it reaches a certain level the effects can be detrimental.

 

I'm going to try and slowly reduce it to see if I can each a level where it helps with anxiety without withdrawals. Alto suggested I try flax seed oil in my intro thread but I'm scared to change in case it makes things worse.

 

Technically, anything that can "raise" mood can become too activating if the dose is too high for you or if your body does not respond well to it.

 

Which brand are you using? I would make sure it is not something related to additives or contaminants in the oil. You also have to be careful with how you store it and how the company that sold it to you stored it. Oxidized oil is worse than no oil because it has an oxidyzing effect on your body.

 

Also make sure you did not change anything else in your life when the change in reaction happened: new stress, new issues with sleep, hormonal changes, other supplements, withdrawal, etc.

 

It could also be it helped with withdrawal first and then the effect wore off.

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Meimeiquest

This is a long shot, but I have read that people with pyrrole disorder are often intolerant of omega-3's due to omega-6 deficiency. This disorder is new to me, but I think it is becoming another "pet" of alternative medicine (I say that in a neutral way...don't know how significant or even real it is).

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Newbeginning

This is an article from last Christmas. I don't think the benefits claimed by taking fish oils are actually proven.

One thing is for certain, the industry is making huge amounts of money from selling fish oil supplements.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/16/us-fish-oil-sales-dont-reflect-evidence-idUSBRE9BF1DH20131216

 

Here's another one from Harvard

http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/fish-oil-friend-or-foe-201307126467

 

Scientific research is very hard to interpret Johnson. There are a lot of mixed findings because of differences in methodology. Even when using the gold standard for effectiveness research  (randomized controlled trials), the results are not necessarily comparable because each study may have used a different brand of fish oil, different dosage, etc. Participants may be included or excluded based on different criteria. They follow up people for different lengths of time. The control group may take different kinds of placebos, which also affect the results.

 

The only way to have a reliable interpretation is after a ton of quality studies have been done using the same methodology. And even then, there are ways to manipulate the results if there are vested interests involved: using statistics that favor wanted results, selective publication, etc. Something the pharmaceutical industry has done with antidepressants and other psych drugs.

 

I agree that news articles are not the best source for interpreting scientific evidence. This is a good site to get an idea of the overall state of the evidence for any given supplement, as well safety precautions: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/993.html#Effectiveness

 

At the end of the day, anything that doesn't harm you and you take with caution is worth trying. Everyone is different and science does not know enough about the brain or human psychology to make sureproof recommendations that apply to everyone. If you see a result, it shouldn't matter if it's placebo or not, as long as you feel better. So if I was you, I'd give it a try:)

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Newbeginning

This is a long shot, but I have read that people with pyrrole disorder are often intolerant of omega-3's due to omega-6 deficiency. This disorder is new to me, but I think it is becoming another "pet" of alternative medicine (I say that in a neutral way...don't know how significant or even real it is).

 

Interesting. Never heard of that disorder. Good to know. I don't know how anyone could be deficient in Omega 6 when they put vegetable oil on every processed food, but I imagine one could have problems metabolizing it...

 

I've read that the balance of Omega 3 and 6 is important too. I'm sure this has been addressed in the thread. It's possible even people without the disorder might continue to have difficulties after taking O3 because the ratio of O3 and O6 is still off...

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Meimeiquest

That's just a tiny bit of it. Mostly it is understood to, long story, deplete zinc and vitamin B6, and elevate copper. Thankfully there is an objective urine test for it.

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SouthernFreeze

So i haven't read all 5 pages, but does anyone know about hemp oil for omega 3? i was talking to a naturopath who claims it's better than fish oil. I don't know if this is true and new beginning has already mentioned that vege oil isn't the same and as good for the brain, but googling it seems to tell a different story. The fishing industry is pretty big and 'hell' interfering with the big wood industry's was how hemp got called the devils weed in the first place (apparently).

 

Anyway, if anyone knows more about this it would be great, as i would prefer getting my fat from a weed than animals 

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SouthernFreeze

oh yeah i suppose i should have done that in the first place. Nothing really came up anyway.

 

btw i meant nothing came up supporting the fact that "hemp" oil omega 3 was different, not vegetable

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Newbeginning

I understand your concern about the fish industry/special interests affecting the knowledge out there. The issue with Omega 3s is that the important components (DHA & EPA) differ between vegetable and animal sources. You can't get DHA from a vegetable source. You can get a precursor that the body then converts to DHA, but it seems doing this is not as effective as getting the more bioavailable thing.

 

An alternative is an algae-based supplement, though this has not been studied that well. Supposedly, that approximates the benefits of animal sources better than other vegetarian sources.

 

The brain is made in great part by fats, and those fats are animal fats. What you could do is do 2 months of an algae based supplement and see if you feel a difference, then do 2 months fish oil and compare. In both cases the key is using a quality supplement and giving it 2-3 months to build up in your body. I can give you recommendations for fish oil, but have no idea of a good algae based one.

 

Some companies have high standards for purity, potency and sourcing. If you try buying from those and make sure you're taking an adequate dosage, you should be ok. Iherb is a good place to get information on dosages and read reviews. Hope this helps some :)

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SouthernFreeze

So after doing some research i understand what your saying better now. But it also seems hemp seed oil unlike other vegetable oils has a good source of SDA which converts EPA and DHA much easier. Also it seems if you just have a good diet you will get more of the  EPA  and DHA from vege oils easier.

 

It's very confusing and just going with the fish oil would be the easy option, but i really don't want to support the destruction of the ocean. Hemp seed oil does seem to come out on top of the vege oils, and that's not using key words favoring it when i google it either. But of cause there is so many sites saying different things. Who do you trust? who is just selling things? who is just telling us what the big corporations tell them to say? who is just hippy's trying to embrace natural alternatives that haven't been properly researched ? 

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Altostrata

Exactly.

 

From what I've read, the plant-derived omega-3s are inefficiently absorbed.

 

Please start a topic and post your findings about hemp oil. Perhaps others have tried it and will comment.

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Newbeginning

That's a good idea on hemp oil that Alto suggested. It's also true our bodies process things differently, which is why I suggested you do some experimentation with hemp, algae and fish oil. Try the right dose of EPA/DHA for 2-3 months and see how it affects you.

 

Also, if you find that the fish helps, there are sustainable ways to fish and you could choose a company that makes the oil using responsible practices.

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SouthernFreeze

To be honest i think i a'm just going to have to bite the bullet and get some fish oil (well first anyway) as you guys say it takes few months to get working, and i need something that's got a good chance of working now! while going through the withdrawal process.

 

I would start a hemp oil thread but i a'm pretty sure if anyone had had any success or even tried it it would have been mentioned by now.

 

I will go down to the local natural health store and request the EPA/DHA omega-3 oil from sustainable fishery or whatever. They are usually pretty good at helping out.

 

Sorry for making a big fuss and then going back to what was originally recommended  :lol:

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SouthernFreeze

Look carefully, is that the amount in one capsule or in 2 capsules?

 

If it has 750mg EPA+DHA in one capsule, it is strong fish oil. To get about 3,000mg EPA+DHA per day, you would need to take 4 capsules in divided doses. I suggest taking them with meals.

Yes just checked and it is that amount in one capsule 

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Doberman

I have taken 3000mg fish oil daily for several years, but am looking for a new brand and will be checking out some of the recommendations here. I take the Costco Kirkland fish oil, but on their website it says a capsule only contains 250mg epa/dha (the ratio is not specified). So I'm not getting as much as I need.

 

I have been reading several studies on fish oil for depression and recommendations run from 2000-4000mg/day.

 

 

Here is a very informative collection of studies

 

Omega-3 fatty acids and major depression: A primer for the mental health professional

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC533861/

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Phil

I don't know if this has been mentioned in this thread before, but from what I have read all fish oil supplements are problematic because the oil is so delicate and easily oxidized. Especially if your body is in a compromised or stressed state. 

 

Personally I have always had trouble with all omega 3 oil supplements. I even tried one made from algae oil recently, which had a bad effect on me. 

 

Apparently omega 3 is safer when eaten as a whole food due to things like selenium & iodine in the fish, which protects the oils from oxidizing within the body. I know some fish oil caps add various antioxidants but apparently this isn't enough. 

 

Just a heads up for anyone who feels worse from taking omega 3. I've wasted so much money trying omega 3 supplements I just gave up in the end. 

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picchy

Hello,

 

I started trying to take fish oil but it has made the zaps of anxiety in my stomach worse, even after just taking one capsule.

 

I bought Eskimo 3 from Nutri Advanced and each capsule contains 240mg EPA and 150mg DHA, plus 4.5mg vitamin E.

 

Does anyone know of another type of fish oil that doesn't make the anxiety worse - or if EPA is better/worse than DHA at triggering it?

 

Is it helpful just to take vitamin E?

 

Thanks,

Picchy

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Altostrata

There are many, many manufacturers of fish oil.

 

You may wish to take less, and from another manufacturer. Or it may not be time yet for you to take fish oil. Be sure to keep in refrigerator.

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compsports

I know Alto has constantly stressed that vitamin E should be taken with the fish oil for various reasons which I am too tired to go back and look up.  :)   But after buying some with high DHA and wondering if I had made a mistake, I decided to buy some vitamin E since it was cheap to see if this might improve things and it definitely has cognitively although unfortunately, nothing can make up for lack of sleep.

 

However, if you are not having the results you want from your fish oil capsules, before giving up on them, you might want to try taking vitamin E with them to see if that makes a difference.

 

CS

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Barbarannamated

I can't tolerate the supps at all. I do okay with some nuts, walnuts. And I do okay with Salmon filets. I can't do flax seeds, I tried the seeds themselves not a supp, as they are as stimulating as the fish oil supps.Alex

Just checking this thread to see if anyone else has had trouble w/activation or insomnia on omega 3. I started last week, had 1 extremely productive day, and haven't been able to sleep since. The depression due to insomnia is horrible.

 

Thanks for your comment, Alex. Glad it was early in the thread!

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Well here's what I know about the omega thing: Way before I even found this site, when I was past the worst of the brain zappy wd's, I was taking a cheap drugstore brand of omegas about 3 times a day and I swear they made a difference in that my 'depression' was less crushing. Later in wd I found I could not take them at all because I could swear they were activating. So I left them off for the longest time. But they are suggested so often here that I feel they might be beneficial. So I bought the liquid so I could take a lesser dose and work up. It's called Carlson's lemon flavored, 1600 mg. 800 mg EPA, 500 mg DHA in each 5 ml (tsp). It already contains d-alpha tocopherol (E) which I believe is recommended because it keeps the omega stable. Here's a link: http://www.mercola.com/beef/omega3_oil.htm and at the end is a mention that too much omega can deplete E so supplementation might be helpful. But there are some sources that say too much E might not be a good idea.

 

So I have haphazardly been taking the liquid but I seem to forget it most days. Doesn't taste that bad and I don't seem to feel it is activating this way. I try to take it early in the day. I'll have to take it more routinely and see if I have anything to report.

 

A former member, Healing, was experimenting or researching high doses of omegas and wrote about it on her blog. No updates on it for quite some time. I just recently found out she also had a board for ssri wd that closed up last summer. I haven't read enough of the articles to see if I can get a feel for how she is doing at this stage in her recovery and if she feels she is recovered as a result of using the omegas.

 

I do the same thing with the magnesium dosages: they come in 200 mg hard huge tablets (current bottle is the glycinate form of chelate. Different types of mag have better or worse levels of bioavailability. The cheapest are worst absorbed. There are articles on the web about which are better absorbed). I break them in half and take 3 halves a day spaced out. Seems to be ok. And I think my anxiety and general upset is worse if I go below the 300 mg. You definitely want to make sure they don't have calcium added to them tho (the Ca negates the 'calcium blocking'). You can take the calcuim at some other time in the day but I don't. I drink some milk.

 

Hope this helps if you want to keep trying them. Another way to get mag is the oil. It will absorb thru the skin but takes a lot to get just a but to absorb. It's oily feeling but not staining and it does burn on abraded skin so watch out. I don't use mine anymore.

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Altostrata

Thanks, CW.

 

Barbara, sometimes people do find fish oil to be activating. You might want to take less, as CW suggested.

 

The mixed tocopherol form of vitamin E is best for general health. The vitamin E helps the fish oil stay active as you metabolize it.

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Barb, I just noticed you reported your mood worsened, not activation. I remember last year, when protracted wd started and I became unstable, that taking any supplement caused me to feel poorly. It was a feeling of alarm and anxiety. That eventually stopped and a good thing too because the mag really helps me. It stopped my palpitations. So maybe the fish oil might be a go in a lower dose and not cause the mood thing. In my case, I need to see if it helps lighten this depression and feeling of futility I have been having.

 

I am always glad to see you post anything.

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