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Phosphatydilserine, aka phosphatidyl serine (Seriphos or Cortiphos)

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alex   
alex

Has anyone here has any knowledge about Phosphatydilserine to reduce levels of cortisol?

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tezza   
tezza

I use it every night. When I've left it off, I have more of the 'too warm feelings that wake me up'.

 

This topic may be moved to Symptoms and self-care.

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Altostrata   
Altostrata

About phosphatydilserine from Alternative Medicine Review Volume 13, Number 3 2008, with citations at http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/13/3/245.pdf (PDF).

 

Pharmacokinetic studies indicate exogenous PS crosses the blood-brain barrier, where it appears to have an affinity for the hypothalamus. Oral administration results in peak levels in 1-4 hours.

 

....

It appears PS might modulate cortisol release

in stressful situations. In a study of exercise-induced

stress, both ACTH and cortisol were lower after exer-

cise in healthy volunteers taking 800 mg/day PS versus

placebo. It was thought that PS affected hypothalamic

release of corticotropin-releasing factor, an activator of

the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis in response to

stress.19 This may provide some insight into the effect

of PS on depression, as hypercortisolism is a common

finding in depression.

 

....

Therapeutic dosages range from 200-800 mg

daily, depending on condition. For example, the recom-

mended dosage for AD ranges from 200-400 mg daily,

300 mg daily for ADHD and depression, and 800 mg dai-

ly for chronic stress. An optimal daily intake for healthy

individuals has not been established. Oral administration

of PS is the preferred route of administration.

It appears to be more effective when taken with omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil).

 

From Web MD http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-992-PHOSPHATIDYLSERINE.aspx?activeIngredientId=992&activeIngredientName=PHOSPHATIDYLSERINE (with citations)

 

Side effects

Phosphatidylserine is POSSIBLY SAFE for most people. It’s been used in research studies for up to six months.

 

Phosphatidylserine use can, however, cause side effects including insomnia and stomach upset, particularly at doses over 300 mg.

Also see Interactions at http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-992-PHOSPHATIDYLSERINE.aspx?activeIngredientId=992&activeIngredientName=PHOSPHATIDYLSERINE

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alex   
alex

Yes, I read about the insomnia issues with P S, they reccomend not to take it in the afernoon to prevent this problem.

 

How much should I try to start? 100mg?

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Altostrata   
Altostrata

I've been experimenting with phosphatydilserine the last few nights.

 

At first I tried 100mg, then 50mg. I got a mild stomach upset each time.

 

Couldn't feel any benefit.

 

I suggest if you try it, take it with food.

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compsports   
compsports

I have taken 100mg in the morning with a multivitamin and fell asleep on the bus on the way to work. Makes me wonder if I should try it at night. But with my bad luck, it would decide to be activating.

 

Anyway, I have stopped taking it since I really don't see any benefit.

 

CS

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Altostrata   
Altostrata

Maybe lunch or dinner is the time to take it.

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basildev   
basildev

Hi everyone,

 

I've just bought some Seriphos but have read conflicting reports on the recommended dosage.

 

One capsule contains 1000mg. Is that too much?

 

When should I take it? I've read some people here only take 100mg at a time.

 

I've read the blurb on the moodcure website but wanted to know first hand from people who have used it.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

 

thanks

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tezza   
tezza

Basil,

 

That is a large dosage. I take only 100 mg before bedtime. It helps me not to have that too warm feeling during the night. I'm sure I could tolerate a higher dosage but I have much less awakenings from feeling 'too warm' at that dose.

 

I definitely wouldn't take a 1000mg capsule until I had tried it at 100 mg for a bit.

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basildev   
basildev

Hi Tezza,

 

Yes I'm starting at 100mg.

 

We'll see how it goes.

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tezza   
tezza

Try that for four or five days and increase gradually if you need to. I hope it helps you.

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basildev   
basildev

Hey Tezza,

 

I'm soooo confused about when to take Seriphos.

 

The day before yesterday I took 100mg at lunch and 100 mg at dinner to be on the safe side. I fell asleep pretty quickly and when I woke at 2AM I took 2 lactium and fell asleep again. Got 8.5 hours! BUT I had only gotten 4 hours the night before and was exhausted.

 

Last night I took 150mg at lunch, 150 mg at dinner and 150 mg just before bed. Took longer to get to sleep, woke at 2AM. Decided to take a whole capsule, was awake the rest of the night.

 

I know I jumped the gun but I was so desperate for it to work.

 

I want to keep taking it but I just don't know when is the best time. There is so much conflicting advice on the net. Some say it's best to take in the morning to imitate the circadian rhythms.

 

This is doing my head in.

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tezza   
tezza

Hi basil,

 

I've never tried taking it any other time than evening. I usually take it about an hour prior to going to bed.

 

More is not always better. I can only testify from my own experience. I did take 200 mg at one point in time when I was having a LOT of heated awakenings. I've read of one other member taking 300mg for sleep.

 

PS helps some people and some it doesn't. I don't think it actually helps with insomnia in my case. It does seem to help with the "too warm" feelings that wake me during the night.

 

Maybe someone with more knowledge will chime in with their experience or opinion.

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Petunia   
Petunia

My Seriphos finally arrived yesterday, the 1000mg capsules from InterPlexus.  The recommended dose on the bottle was 1 capsule daily with water 15 minutes before food.

 

I got them to try and stop my too high cortisol.  I've also done some research and was very confused about when to take them.  My cortisol is through the roof starting about 7am and not going back down until mid afternoon.  I think its too high during the night too because I often wake suddenly in a hot/cold sweat.

 

Anyway, I took one capsule last night at 11pm.  I was still awake at midnight, but feeling very relaxed with sort of a heavy feeling in my body, it was quite pleasant.  I fell asleep soon after, although I generally dont have problems going to sleep.  I woke several times during the night, but not in a hot/cold sweat, so that was an improvement.  One of the times I got up and noticed that I was feeling light headed and dizzy, but not enough to lose my balance.

 

I woke in the morning at 6am and immediately took another capsule then went back to sleep.  Woke up again just before 9am, got up and realized that my cortisol was still too high.  I had the usual morning nausea, shaking, sweating, hot/cold flashes etc.  Not quite as intense as usual, maybe about 25% less.  So I realized that I need to try taking 2 capsules tomorrow morning.

 

I took another capsule about 11:30am, by about 1pm I was starting to feel quite a bit better, but I had a slight headache and I was feeling sort of tired, not the kind of tired where I wanted to go to sleep, but a kind of body tired, it wasn't unpleasant though and thankfully I wasn't feeling depressed, which is what other cortisol reducing supplements and meds do to me.

 

I had a weak cup of tea, took an aspirin, then went for a walk to the grocery store.  That was a nice surprise too, I felt better grocery shopping than I had in a long time, I almost enjoyed it, I was able to relax and make decisions about what to buy easier than it has been lately.  I didn't get any waves of negative emotions while walking or shopping, which I usually do.  For almost 2 years, I haven't been able to step outside my door without getting engulfed in waves of horrible emotions, so today was a nice change, felt a bit strange through, I guess I don't trust it yet, fingers crossed it was the Seriphos and they are actually going to help.

 

I'm going to take another capsule tonight and tomorrow morning I will take 2.

 

My goal is to get my early morning cortisol down enough so that I can get out of the house before lunch time and get back to the gym.  By the time I've struggled through a morning of high cortisol, I'm usually exhausted by the afternoon and even though I might feel better (less anxiety symptoms), I'm usually too tired to do much of anything.

 

I read one report of someone who was taking 8 capsules a day for a while to get their cortisol back under control, then they managed to reduce the amount, so I'm not worried about taking more than the recommended dose.  I'm pleasantly surprised that I've had no bad effects from them, because everything I've tried over the last couple of years has made me feel worse than I already do, even when I've taken less than the recommended dose.

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Altostrata   
Altostrata

Very interesting. Thanks, Petu.

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Petunia   
Petunia

I'm still experimenting with the Seriphos, it seems to be helping with physical symptoms, especially at night, but in other ways its not helping at all and perhaps it may be increasing mental anxiety.  I'm not sure if I'm getting more anxious and depressed because they haven't been as helpful as I was hoping and its a reaction to my disappointment, or if they are actually increasing mental anxiety.

 

If anyone has taken this for longer than a few days and has found it helpful, please would you share your experience.

 

For example, how much did you take and at what time of the day?  What symptoms did it help with and did it make anything else worse? Did you notice any immediate effects from taking it and how long after?  For me, its seems to provide a subtle physical relaxation response about 2 hours after taking it, but when I took 3 capsules one morning, it didn't work any better than taking 1 capsule and it put me in a strange, trance-like mood for the rest of the day.  My symptoms are so bad in the morning, the subtle response I've been getting from this supplement hardly touches it, but I'm apprehensive about taking more than 3 capsules at a time.

 

On day 2 when I took 2 capsules in the morning, I felt very irritable.

 

I took 2 capsules this morning and I'm not irritable, but I have been much more anxious, mentally than usual.

 

No more headaches, but I've had some diarrhea.

 

I've read that it takes a while for this supplement to reduce cortisol levels back to 'normal'.  Has anyone here taken it for several months and found that it really has brought cortisol levels down?

 

This is the article which gave me hope about Seriphos being able to reduce cortisol:

 

http://www.medicinegarden.com/2011/02/19/high-cortisol-ptsd-1/

 

That's part 1, links to other 3 parts are on the page.

 

I dont want to reach a premature conclusion, thinking that they are not working, when it might just take some time.

 

Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

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Nadia   
Nadia

I've done two "rounds" of Seriphos, both times for about two months if I remember correctly (maybe the first time was 3 months), and I would take one before bedtime, then one each time I woke up at night as long as it was before 7am. At first I felt like it might be helping, but then I didn't feel like it did much, and maybe actually made me worse. But I stuck with it.

 

What I DID find was that when I would be done with the bottles and quit, I was much better in terms of sleep and anxiety. What I speculated was that it makes you more sensitive to cortisol, so that when you quit it, your sensitivity goes back to normal and you feel less wired. And that led me to think that cortisol is only one part of the equation in all of this... maybe a symptom more than a cause.

 

I've been wondering if a lot of the things I tried in early withdrawal, like acupuncture and Seriphos, might have more of an impact now that I am so much better. The reason I think this is that I've just very, very recently noticed that I can take a lot of stuff I couldn't before without getting a paradoxical reaction. For example, linden tea.

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Petunia   
Petunia

. At first I felt like it might be helping, but then I didn't feel like it did much, and maybe actually made me worse. But I stuck with it.....

 

.... What I speculated was that it makes you more sensitive to cortisol, so that when you quit it, your sensitivity goes back to normal and you feel less wired. And that led me to think that cortisol is only one part of the equation in all of this... maybe a symptom more than a cause.

 

 

 

Thanks Nadia, I'm finding that a similar thing is happening and the way you explain it makes sense to me.

 

When I take it in the morning, for a few hours, I do seem to experience more anxiety, but less actual shaking and sweating.  When it wears off, a few hours later, I feel better, in general than before I started taking it.

 

Taking one at night, seems to help with sleep in as much as I'm not waking up every few hours and the hot flashes and sweating has decreased, but I get a sense that my brain is more active while I sleep because my dreams have been more intense and I wake up feeling like I haven't really been asleep.

 

This morning, I accidentally took 2 caps instead of 1 at 5am.  I had decided I wasn't going to take more than one at a time.  I've had an awful morning, but awful in a different way.  I still managed to get up, pay some bills , take my daughter to work and then do some chores, but the whole time, my mood was a combination of helpless sadness and a kind of constant dread, expecting something terrible to happen any moment.  It was surrounded by a sort of dull, hopeless acceptance, rather than the sharp edge of terror I usually walk around with early in the day.  But by the time I went out, just after 11, they were probably wearing off and I was starting to feel the calming effect.

 

Up until about 10:30, the feeling of panic was still intense and I didn't know how I was going to be able to force myself to get in the car and drive.

 

If what you suggest is true, that high cortisol is just a symptom, rather than a cause, I'm also wondering if its even worth continuing to take them.

 

Perhaps if I can remember to only take one at a time, it might be worth continuing.  Taking one at a time doesn't cause me to feel significantly worse, but they are certainly not providing any short term relief for my mornings, which is what I was hoping for.

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Altostrata   
Altostrata

You may be having an initial paradoxical reaction to the Seriphos, then you feel better when it wears off a bit. You might try taking 1/2 a capsule instead.

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Altostrata   
Altostrata

Merged the two phosphatidylserine aka Seriphos topics. Currently, I've found taking 1/4 capsule of Neesby Seriphos (with one fish oil capsule) helps me get back to sleep if I wake up in the middle of the night, with a couple of hours of very good quality sleep. If I wake up again, I take another 1/4 capsule. It doesn't seem to help after 4:30 a.m. (Hyland's homeopathic Insomnia tablets sometimes work then.)(I take Seriphos with fish oil to avoid stomach upset, but that may not be really necessary.) If I take any more than 1/4 capsule of Seriphos, I get a paradoxical reaction. Less is more for me regarding Seriphos.

Edited by Altostrata
updated

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Altostrata   
Altostrata

1/4 capsule Neesby Seriphos seems to have stopped working for the time being. I'll try it again after a couple of weeks.

Edited by Altostrata
updated

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Altostrata   
Altostrata

I just talked to the T. E. Neesby manufacturer, Pinnacle. Interplexus and Neesby both manufactured a product called Seriphos. Many people preferred the Neesby product. The two companies had a trademark dispute. A similar Neesby phosphatidylserine product is now available, called Cortiphos. It contains more phosphorylated serine than Neesby Seriphos did -- it is stronger.(Neesby/Pinnacle had initially produced Enerphos to replace Seriphos, but those who were using Neesby Seriphos found it unsatifactory. Neesby/Pinnacle reformulated the product into Cortiphos.)

Edited by Altostrata
updated

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Altostrata   
Altostrata

Here's some interesting information about phosphatidyl serine versus phosphorylated serine (which is what is in Seriphos and Cortiphos) from a chiropractor-nutritionist:

 

http://www.drdebe.com/phosphorylated-serine.html

Phosphatidyl serine is a phospholipid composed of one glycerol, two fatty acid, and one phosphorylated serine molecules. When one consumes phosphatidyl serine, the digestive process cleaves the glycerol and fatty acids from the phosphorylated serine before it is absorbed. When the body needs phosphatidyl serine, it adds fatty acids and glycerol to the phosphorylated serine. Fatty acids and glycerol are available in abundance from body fat and from dietary sources. The rate-limiting step in the body's production of phosphatidyl serine is the phosphorylation of serine. By consuming phosphorylated serine, the body is stimulated to manufacture phosphatidyl serine. Supplementing preformed phosphatidyl serine offers no advantage, as it is broken down to its component parts and reassembled in the body using tissue-specific fatty acids. A reason not to use it is that the unsaturated fatty acids it contains are likely to be rancid. What's more, phosphorylated serine works more quickly and permanently. One final reason to opt for phosphorylated serine is that it is much cheaper. Phosphatidyl serine is currently more popular but it is an inferior supplement.

 

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compsports   
compsports

Started taking 200mg during the day in order to be able to function at a temp job. Found that taking it with vitamin D seems to increase effectiveness.

 

Interestingly, since beginning this supplement, my initial sleep time on the bipap machine has gone to 3, 3.5 hours during the nights I put the mask on initially. Still can't get back to sleep with the mask but that is another issue.  Whether that is just coincidental, it is hard to say since I am getting close to the right settings. But I am not messing with success.

 

Yesterday, took the 2nd dose late in the afternoon and was concerned it might interfere with sleep but I don't think it honestly did.   So I might try adding another dose just to see what happens as it seems to wear off quickly which results in my struggling greatly.

 

I will take this indefinitely because I am seem to be benefitting and not suffering any side effects.

 

CS

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Altostrata   
Altostrata

I am finding 1/4 capsule Neesby Seriphos is working again to help sleep. Yay!

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compsports   
compsports

I am glad you're having success Alto.

 

Unfortunately, I have continued to struggle greatly so perhaps that was simply a coincidence with the supplement. And the phosphatidyl serine is now causing me to want to fall asleep at work.

 

So maybe when my temp assignment is over, I might experiment with taking it after dinner to see what happens.

 

When do you take yours?

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Altostrata   
Altostrata

I take it as needed when I wake up in the middle of the night.

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Aria   
Aria

Bought Phosphatidylserine 300 mg gel caps today. Planning on taking one gel cap around 10 PM tonight by itself. No sleep last night and have a fried brain (I am the poster child for insomnia).

 

I've read all the sleep links posted here and not sure of what can be mixed.  Recently bought L Tyrosine, L Glutamine, L Tryptophan, Taurine  and Theanine Serene. I have little idea of what doses and times to take so please tell me your experience with these for sleep? I know they may not help but I'm game to see if one or a combo may work, any sleep will be appreciated.

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Altostrata   
Altostrata

I have reservations about tyrosine and glutamine. You might Google around to see if you want to try those.

 

We have topics about the other aminos. I would try partial doses -- that goes for phosphatidylserine, too -- and one at a time.

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Petunia   
Petunia

Copied from greentrain's into thread:

 

I just spoke to a pharmacist about the liquid Lexapro and we got talking about Seriphos. He said anything that touches the pituitary- adrenal axis has the possibility of rewiring things permanently (for good or bad) and that supplements that touch cortisol can activate arrhythmias. I have been complaining that when I take 1 capsule my heart rate is either too slow or too fast when I wake. I had an arrhythmia for which I had a cardiac ablation 8 yrs ago so I wanted to pass this along to anyone who feels that Seriphos is affecting them in strange ways.

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Altostrata   
Altostrata

Yes, people have reported both good and bad reactions from Seriphos. Use at your own discretion.

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btdt   
btdt

I was nosing around the net and found this

 https://www.dentistry.utoronto.ca/users/david-lam

" they have identified a direct role for serine proteases and their protease-activated receptor (PAR2) in the pathogenesis of cancer pain."  

has anyone noticed any change in withdrawal pain?

 

More nosing around 

 

  • Irreversible Inhibitors of Serine, Cysteine, and Threonine ...
    pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/cr010182v
    •  
    by JC Powers - ‎2002 - ‎Cited by 606 - ‎Related articles

    Irreversible Inhibitors of Serine, Cysteine, and Threonine Proteases. James C. Powers,* Juliana L. Asgian, O¨zlem Dogan Ekici, and Karen Ellis James.

    -uncontrolled proteolysis leads to disease states infection.. stroke ... Alzheimers...inflammation arthritis cancer  ...can't copy and paste and having head issues just now so I cannot followup I pass it to you

     

Apparently these three serine cysteine and threonine have the same base shut down one shut down all. 

 

I have bits of information in my head about all these things and I cannot join the dots today as I was reading this and more I had this nagging gut instinct that there was something important here if only I could draw some clarity to my head full of funk... I could not... I offer it up for those of you who may have an interest just in case what I was feeling was indeed some nudge and not indigestion.  

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Moonlitelotus   
Moonlitelotus

So I read a whole thread about people trying phosphatidylserine did work for people or not? I couldn't really tell if it did or not. I would like to know what supplements or ideas worked for people to balance their cortisol levels?

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compsports   
compsports

As with all supplements, it is trial and error.    Also, start low and go slow.

 

YOu might want to do a google search to see what works to help cortisol.  Not to say that to be flippant but I honeslty don't remember other than some people having success with the phosphatidylserine.

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