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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

I am currently off all antidepressants since Oct. 2012. I started my most recent bout of AD's in 2004, for depression and "just weird behavior" (more later) just before and after the hurricanes hit SW Florida at that time. The details and drugs are hazy but I know I was on Zoloft for a time until I had some sort of crisis involving a bizarre symptom like something was pulling my head down to my chest, could barely move and unable to feel anything. I was given Cymbalta and actually felt relief within a few hours. The Cymbalta dosage was eventually increased and over time Lamictal was added to the mix. Then clonazepam to deal with irritability from Cymbalta and eventually to help with insomnia. And then hydroxyzine as needed for anxiety too. I guess I was as functional as I could be but neglected diet, sleep, etc. and drank almost a gallon of diet soda every day and smoked about 1 1/2 packs a day. Nearly 3 years ago I switched to electronic cigs at a nicotine level between 6 to 11 mg/ml.

 

In Oct. 2012, I was unable to get any more Cymbalta, became very ill with headache and nausea that lasted over 3 days. I was monitored in the ER till my BP of 170's/100's came down, brain scans showed nothing, and I was sent home. My first bowel movement was completely white and led me to search the internet for a cause and I happened on information which led me to understand my symptoms were AD withdrawal. Somehow I lived through the brain zaps and other horrid symptoms and have arrived here, months later, struggling with recovery.

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Jemima

Welcome to the forum, Cymbaltawithdrawal5600. You might want to take a look at the 'Symptoms and self-care' discussion for non-drug ways to cope with withdrawal.

 

I'm sorry that you've had to go through this painful and abrupt withdrawal. Why were you not able to get more Cymbalta?

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

For the eight or so years I was on Cymbalta I received my monthly dose for $5 on the Lily Patient Assistance Program. For some (probably serendipitous) reason, I had neglected to file my yearly income statement to re-up. By the time I did, the med supply (they sent it to the pharmacy monthly) was running out and the Dr. has to go through a large stack of forms for all her patients so it stays in the system for a time before being sent to Lily for approval. By the time I could even get to the Dr. I had already gone through the withdrawal and I knew I would never take that drug again nor one like it if I could help it. My memory of the few months before Christmas last year is really hazy and I was so sick. Somehow the deadening effect of the SSRI must have helped me cope with the havoc my body went through, I had everything (zzzap!) in spades. I just coped. When I read about the experiences of others just trying to get off the drugs (for whatever reason), and I realize that I went through it, I am amazed I survived. Though it may be heresy to say it, I can not conceive of tapering now that the worst of the immediate physical is over. It is the learning about and dealing with the psychic pain (which hit sometime before Easter and has been pretty near constant to this day) that led me to this board for help.

 

Thanks for your reply to my first post!

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Jemima

I certainly wouldn't advise you to go back on Cymbalta after all this time just to taper off more slowly, but it probably would have been a lot easier to do it that way back in October if you had had the choice.

 

I'm also still in recovery following a too fast taper from Lexapro in the fall of 2011. The really nasty stuff is behind me now at almost seventeen months out, the major remaining problems being some anxiety, pessimism, and emotional numbness. What kinds of symptoms are you having?

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

It is hard to imagine any other way of doing it since it already happened but all I can say is I am glad it is past and I wouldn't have it any other way. I am shocked that as poorly as I have cared for my body all of these years that it withstood the trauma. I had every symptom there was to have and all I am left with is a mild tinnitus. And these strange emotions, feelings, thoughts. And I think that from now until I die, this period is the start of yet another life. Recovery, yes, but something more. Instead of intensely focusing on the cause and effect surrounding symptoms and the effects of self care measures, I am committed to just doing these things: sleep and wake at same times, drinking my 9 cups of water a day, exercise of some sort daily (currently only walking and bike riding), magnesium powder, a B 100 tab, Vit C 500 mg, baby aspirin, omega 3 and using a blue light lamp. Beginning meditation (just sitting for now). Eating a salad a day with veggies from the farmer's market. Plain yogurt with almonds and peanuts. Some ice cream and an occasional mini can of Coke helps (I dump it out if it doesn't feel right). This all starting in the last few weeks and not all at once. This is a huge lifestyle change and in itself brings on "symptoms" some of which may be turning out to be beneficial.

 

As far as the emotions go, they are uncharted territory for me. I am uncomfortable with "me" and yearn to be "better". I yearn for some feeling of joy, just a shred of happiness, in my days and it's just not there. Yet.

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Jemima, thanks for mentioning the feelings. I have just re-read the "neuro-emotion" thread and all of that is just what I have been feeling. Though it is hard to tell what is what, I am going to use a rule of thumb and not dwell too much on what I am feeling, thinking or how I see myself reacting and instead try mightily to distract or otherwise curtail any excessive emotion when it occurs. The only reaction is crying... I find myself crying a LOT, even for someone who cries easily. I'll just let the tears come and reign in ruminating thoughts. (IF I can!)

 

I then read the re-post of Charly G's experiences regarding Prozac withdrawal and am now stopping the vit B, C, aspirin and the blue light. And no more Coke. I will cut down my 8 oz. of coffee in the mornings (probably gradually!) as that is something of a comfort to me. But the artificial creamer HAS to go!

 

I have been taking 5HTP at bedtime and the omega 3, those are out now. And his admonition about violence on TV really resonated with me! No wonder I have had to stop watching my favorite shows (the crime dramas!) They have been making me feel oddly uneasy, never would have attributed to them an increasing paradoxical anxiety! The TV can just stay off, or I'll watch something easy on Netflix.

 

The stress of daily life and work I'll have to handle as it comes but it seems to me that my inability to force myself to go out and get new clients to replace the ones I lost when I was so ill has actually been my body's way of easing up on the stress so I can heal.

 

Ok, so he is able to say that he has completely recovered and FOR HIM it took 7 years. Me? Maybe longer, maybe less. The actual time period will actually only be known in hindsight and even though (if it takes ME that long) I will be in my 70's, what else can I do with my time? There will be good and bad times in there and there is nothing else in front of me except this journey. I'm so relieved to be able to take myself off the hook for years if need be and just keep plodding along!

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

What I mean by "taking myself off the hook" is no more supplements and stuff to relieve symptoms and not worrying obsessively about what is/might happen in my unclear future. It is really too hard to see cause and effect there and as there are undoubtedly windows and waves, pinning a "window" down to something I did or did not do can be exhausting. It is so mixed in with withdrawal and relearning emotions. I really hate this 'flat' feeling, this 'no joy', but the lift I felt from consuming so much caffeine and aspartame was artificial anyway.

 

There is a line in "Jonathon Livingston Seagull" that goes through my head. Something about 'All this might all be wrong'. So this is me at this moment, I may be (in the next moments) somewhere on the scale between a basket case and ENLIGHTENMENT.

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Jemima

What I mean by "taking myself off the hook" is no more supplements and stuff to relieve symptoms and not worrying obsessively about what is/might happen in my unclear future. It is really too hard to see cause and effect there and as there are undoubtedly windows and waves, pinning a "window" down to something I did or did not do can be exhausting. It is so mixed in with withdrawal and relearning emotions.

 

That's an excellent attitude to take. Many of us here have worried ourselves silly, spent a fortune on supplements, and gone through a great deal of angst trying to get through withdrawal as fast as possible, but you've got the right idea - those windows and waves will come when they come and they cannot be hurried along one way or the other. How I wish I had had your wisdom when I was going through the worst of it! I bought every supplement that even hinted at relief, many of which did nothing or were over-stimulating.

 

The only supplements that seem to help almost universally are a high quality fish oil (see King of Supplements - Omega-3 Fatty Acids) and magnesium (see Magnesium, Nature's Calcium Channel Blocker).

 

I've noticed that the sorts of books that used to be favorites are not as appealing now (mostly detective stories) due to the emotional flatness. I now have the most recently published paperback version of a book by one of my favorite authors, a book I've waited for months to read, but I find that it doesn't appeal to me as much, not because of the blood and guts but because I don't feel nearly as attached to certain characters as I used to do.

 

I'm 67 myself, and as you wrote in another post, "There is nothing in front of me except this journey", so I may as well just plod along and do the best I can. I've finally, finally accepted that there is a place for distractions in my life, that I don't have to be doing something difficult and noble most of my waking hours. What a relief!

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

O Jemima! A kindred spirit! I shall read the topic you suggested after I reply.

 

I do not think I have much wisdom at this point, rather an understanding that I have had a brush with death. There are times that I wish I "didn't exist" because the suffering is intense. But not by my own hand nor by an inattention to the dangers of some behaviors. Under and between the 'suffering' is the realization that on many levels I actually feel better in a lot of ways. Today I am noticing all kinds of odors, for instance, and not connected with any thoughts of the past. I just notice them as unique pieces, fleeting and different. How weird is that!

 

My shoot from the hip reaction upon reading Charly G's 'prescription' for recovery was to cut all the supplements. May not be a good thing as I am still researching and finding contradictory info. If the 5HTP I take at bedtime (I forgot last night and had difficulty falling asleep) seems to help, maybe it is because my serotonin production has blown out and I need just a little help. I think the vit C and aspirin are ok, the C can be depleted from smoking (I am only using the e-cig now) and they don't seem to be causing any harm as yet. I think the omega is helping, I'm using a brand with a good listing on the IFOS website. And sipping the magnesium powder in water seems to help even though I am at a really low dose.

 

I have no idea where this unnatural (for me) willingness to just relax and let it happen as it may comes from. My flat feeling may be helping by keeping me from spinning my wheels and trying everything I can which may actually do harm. Life is stressful enough. Ah, another day has finished, time for bed. Thank you so much for responding to me! And remind me to tell you what I do for distraction.....

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Working title is (in my head, of course!): The Autopsy Theory.

 

I have been reading some of the content on Charly G's site and others. And without actually studying every study, I have some broad generalizations about the scientific method and its results in any particular study. The singular element that cannot be absolutely controlled for is each individual human, which has an absolutely unique being-ness comprised of every single thing it has thought, eaten, been exposed to, watched, heard, ad infinitum. This includes the scientist itself. In one of the popular books I once read on quantum physics/mechanics there was an idea that just the actual OBSERVING of a 'thing' changes the behavior of that thing. (If I remember correctly.)

 

Regarding "recovery", it's hard for each individual to know what helps and what doesn't in any given situation and at any given time. I am seeing no clear immediate cause and effect as to what I do or consume and it's result on my total being-ness. So my "Autopsy Theory" thinking is a way for me to reign in obsessive thinking on what I should do and WHEN. In order to see (on an absolute concrete level) what is actually happening is to start with a complete dissection and cataloging of my entire physical and mental and spiritual self to determine the initial state, then repeated dissections after each addition or subtraction of an infinite number of things. So by now you see the flaw: game over at the first cut of the knife. And at that first cut is another thing. Changes are observed when something (anything) reaches critical mass. At the moment of the first cut, what critical mass at the micro-cellular level was forming? Was it "good" or "bad"?

 

There are a couple of things I can use as a guide, unreliable though they may be. My body and my emotions. Both are undoubtedly out of whack but they are what they are. So if I combine my theory with another what will be the result? A life.

 

The other theory is that my purpose for "being" is so the Creator (just a theory) can experience through me. I'll work on articulating this one later. Let's just say that I will be adding, changing, deleting things from my experience based on what I think they are doing and let my body be the guide, unreliable though it may be at times. The emotional thing is a part of the pakage. Today I am seeing "life" as not so much a race to the finish line but as something to be experienced.

 

And all of this may be wrong.

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Altostrata

Interesting ideas, Cymb. I'm moving this to the Symptoms and Self-care forum for more general discussion.

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Since sometime yesterday I am aware of very subtle odors, complex and fleeting and they are an undercurrent in the totality of everything I am experiencing from moment to moment. A side effect of withdrawal or something indefinable like "recovery"? Who's to know and if I demand a concrete, tangible reason (FOR ME!), I can always try my "Autopsy Theory" (and we know where that goes and the pitfalls in execution as I mentioned in another topic). Though I have a gazillion other things I "should" be doing, who is to say that the single most important thing I can do right now is to experience smell and write about it? I am currently in a flat emotional period so no raging sh*tstorm of feeling is clamoring for my attention. And moments ago I was experiencing a feeling of stuffiness just in my ears and became aware that my Mom was washing the dishes. A bit of crockery clatter hit my ears and a thumping at my eardrums occurred in sync with the noise. A thought: I think I just noticed (felt) my ear drums vibrate in response to a noise! I think it is just enough of a tease to keep me going on a path, or just BE an experiencing entity.

 

About the Gazillion Things

 

There is a guy I read about on the net who's working theory is, at the moment, a four hour work week (IIRC). A popular search engine (who shall remain nameless) is "your friend" in checking this man's journey out. I myself search via Startpage because of the IP thingy logging purportedly used by Mr. G, for whatever it's worth. Even though there is no true anonymity anywhere, it is just something I am doing. Ah well, scratch all that. I may need to rethink that bit of strategy because to tell the truth Mr. G includes more results and I am doing something out of habit for maybe the wrong reasons. I just have a nagging suspicion regarding Kool-Aid......Anyhow, nothing is bleeding right now so I really can just do anything. Even doing nothing is doing something: the human BEING or human DOING concept.

 

All of this may be wrong.

 

I have got to put that in my sig so I don't forget to mention it. Uh, later maybe? Oh and I think my "correct" diagnosis was Dysthymia, not Dysphoria. I'll tell my sig editor to see about that one too....

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Interesting ideas, Cymb. I'm moving this to the Symptoms and Self-care forum for more general discussion.

 

OMG, instant moment of panic/anxiety here...

 

But hmmm, I can either watch the discussion, ignore it, contribute to it....

 

OK.

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Altostrata

Didn't you want people to discuss this with you?

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Altostrata

This latest post seems to belong in your topic, so I merged it. Only one topic to a customer in the Intro forum.

 

Your Intro topic serves as a journal for you to track your progress.

 

Other forums where you might want to start topics that are more general and not about your progress are Symptoms and Self-care and Finding Meaning, where you might post your metaphysical musings.

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Oh! The consequence of moving this to a different forum is that I am not rambling to myself in my own little corner anymore. Well, ok......

 

Something I have used, a mental trick if you will, is to search, find and then use "something to hang my hat on" when faced with something is out of my control and is vexing me no end. One such thing I am attempting to use is some info I recently happened upon in some such study said that depression can spontaneously clear up, on it's own, without medical (drug) intervention, maybe in 6 months. I have been "clinically depressed" at least 4 times in my life since the 1970's. Took drugs and during one period participated in group therapy for 5 years. I never knew there was another option. Like waiting it out, improving diet and sleep, controlling rumination, exercise, meditation, all the good stuff.

 

FORPETESSAKEINEEDTOGETWELLNOWGIMMETHEPILLSOICANGETONWITHMYLIFENOW! Or more like: AD's can well, uh, help you get over depression. A psych Dr. once told me that the AD's purpose was to help you feel better, function in life and give you time and space to WORK ON THE PROBLEMS THAT CAUSE YOUR DEPRESSION. I thought I was doing that but in hindsight, I focused somewhere else and never realized how sleep, diet, exercise and the like contributed to my state. And the AD's MIGHT be making it harder to sort out.

 

That's in the past now. So at the time I read that my 'place to hang my hat' and wait it out while changing diet, sleep (ATGS) for short, was earmarked at around Oct. of 2013. Surely I could give it that long and see what happens? Neuro-emotions can be fought or just experienced and what will be will be. Drag out the "Autopsy Theory" when the psychic pain is intense or unwelcome physical symptoms occur to give my monkey-brain something to play with and just keep BEING.

 

So someone said they were "completely recovered" after 7 years. Well, ok, maybe that's a better arbitrary place to "hang my hat". I'll be in my 70's then and what else am I going to do in the meantime? Who knows what miraculous and mundane things can happen, in either a longer or shorter time, and in the windows and waves?

 

I think the term "recovery" can be misleading and elusive. And ONLY something recognized and labeled as such IN HINDSIGHT. What will my accurate and absolutely true interval to TOTAL RECOVERY be and will I even care or notice it? Ok, I'll give it 7 years and get back to you on this.....

 

All of this may be wrong. I have never practiced putting my thoughts down anywhere so this is an experiment in doing just that. Under no circumstances should you attribute to me wisdom and the thought that I know what I am doing. When a cr&pstorm of emotion hits, you can be sure things will be different. I'll cross that bridge when it comes and try to keep on this new course.

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

This latest post seems to belong in your topic, so I merged it. Only one topic to a customer in the Intro forum.

 

Your Intro topic serves as a journal for you to track your progress.

 

Other forums where you might want to start topics that are more general and not about your progress are Symptoms and Self-care and Finding Meaning, where you might post your metaphysical musings.

 

So maybe you could just keep my postings in my intro place for now? My "metaphysical musings" are what is coming out right now and as such a part of my daily experience at the moment. If someone happens to see and comment on them, well ok.

 

Sound good to you?

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Oh, maybe I have been labeling my posts as 'new topics' when I should just leave the labeling alone and just continue to post in my intro. Right? I can differentiate them by the optional topic description if I want. Will check back to see what is the correctness here.

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

And I am just not sure if I want to enter into any of the other forums just yet..... as far as posting or commenting goes, that is.

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Altostrata

Okay, just add your musings to this topic. I'll move the other over, too.

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Jemima

Oh, maybe I have been labeling my posts as 'new topics' when I should just leave the labeling alone and just continue to post in my intro. Right? I can differentiate them by the optional topic description if I want. Will check back to see what is the correctness here.

 

You've got it. Your Intro topic is meant to be a journal of your personal experience of antidepressant withdrawal, so continue to post in this thread using the "Add Reply" button at the bottom of the page. If you have a topic that's of general interest (like quantum physics :o), it can go under whatever heading seems most appropriate - 'Symptoms and self care', 'Finding meaning', et cetera.

 

BTW, I think I know the book you were talking about a few posts above. It was by Wayne Dyer (can't remember the title) and he presented a layman's description of a quark, the smallest known unit of matter or energy in the universe. Unobserved, the quark is a pulse of energy. Observed, it becomes matter. I've personally always taken this as proof that there is a Creator. If matter cannot exist without being observed, there first has to be an observer.

 

That, I think, really is another topic so I'll stop here.

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Thanks, Altostrata, for keeping my postings here, especially while I try to articulate my thoughts. I'd like to use this as a journal for now as I attempt to get my bearings.

 

My paradoxical "panic" reaction after seeing my post moved is a part of what is going on right now. Like I had been caught doing something bad then shock that I am not really alone here. Combined with this very low energy day nothing feels any good right now. I've got a hyper smell thing going on, a constant awareness of odors. A slight headache and I can feel my heartbeat in my head. I checked my BP earlier to see if it was up and it was, slightly.

 

I have had 2 recent dealings with people that sort of upset me and they keep returning to my thoughts. And there is nothing I can or will do about them and with time I know they won't intrude so much. It's like I really don't understand people (and myself) very much anymore. And it's strange finding myself in a body that reacts in ways I am not used to (or never really gave a thought about). So I'll just chalk it up to my system being out of whack. A strong, unexpected emotion like earlier today takes a while to get used to body-wise and combined with the 2 unsettling situations, I feel very tired.

 

I have never read Dyer, I tried to once and couldn't manage it, but you gave a more complete explanation of the thought I was trying to get out. It could have been in any number of books I have read, I keep thinking "The Dancing Wu Li Masters" but maybe just because I loved the book and the title stuck with me. There was one that had me working for weeks on that concept. Written by someone who taught himself quantum whatever-the-correct-term-is. I am just too tired right now to think about it.

 

Thanks for your patience!

 

Oh, I just saw your question about others discussing my ideas here. Sure I do! Just hadn't occurred to me that some might want to and that's why my reaction was so surprising to me.

 

One more note for today: A friend/client brought her dog to me today to watch while her daughter visits. I asked how she was doing, the last time I saw her she was really upset and wanting to move out of the area. She has begun exploring options and seems optimistic about it happening. My first reaction was just joy for her instead of that all too familiar pang of fear at losing a client.

 

Where is the "me" that I am used to in my head and who is this different "me"? I like the "me" I felt in that instant. I'll have another, please!

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Sheesh, the DOG woke me up with her quiet "moofing" at the door, going on for who knows how long. And I see my computer did not go into deep sleep (the windows 8 kind of sleep) so that means not 5 hours has past yet. Now that's weird because I do not remember being up that late. So there's where the tendency to attempt to pin down cause and effect gets cranked up starts and can lead to the spinning wheels thing.

 

Yesterday: Strong emotional reaction, didn't drink all of my third quart of water, used the blue light in the morning, didn't take the omega nor the 5HTP before bed, had NCIS re-runs on the TV nearly all day and a host of other stuff, 'good' or 'bad'.

 

Today: How to interpret today's emotional/physical states based on yesterday's actions and experiences? Not even going to go there. Last night before bed I read the thread here on Anhedonia/Apathy and then another's experience into pharm manipulations of neurotransmitters in order to regain lost feelings. I'll be careful of what I say because maybe this person has posted here.

 

I'm too mentally tired to fill in the rest of my thoughts but here's what came up: lots of 'scientific' studies regarding the effects of pharmacology (include supplements here) and anecdotal reports on nearly ALL the rest. Is there a study on the effect of standing on the naked earth every day and it's effect on anhedonia, depression, apathy, disaffection, and HAIR LOSS? And how, if it were me, could I design such a study which might lead to There's An App For That! ? Fame! Fortune! The saving of humanity! And will I 'feel' better? I'll feel better, right?

 

What actually works? Or does what work truly involve the passage of time and a mental/physical/emotional/spiritual change of the lifestyle that precipitated the depression I started with? I am getting a sneaking suspicion here that the whole anhedonia thing so vexing to a lot of us which we "feel" after discontinuing SSRI's might be something like this: depressed, took drugs, felt better, stopped drugs, feel nothing. What was that 'feel' better that the drugs caused? Maybe just the gradual cessation of feeling 'bad'? Is this anhedonia a body's reaction/repairing of itself after being artificially boosted into feeling 'better'? Maybe I'll just wait and see.

 

ANDLETSGETITOVERWITHBECAUSEIWANTTOSTARTENJOYINGLIFEAGAIN!

 

Broadly speaking, I am feeling nothing right now and for some time. But actually there were 2 distinct 'feelings' yesterday and a myriad of others which occurred which were different from the 'me' I used to know. Seek pleasure, avoid pain. Or just experience life without too many expectations and see what happens.

 

Is there an app for this? <<---- a little social commentary here

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Thoughts, insights, meanings, inner commentary on stuff is whirling through my mind. Wondering if this is the beginning of madness or is just what it is. I kinda wish my inner commentator would just shut up. Some random thoughts I want to remember:

 

T-Mobile commercial: Little girl saying "we want more, not less".

 

I often read books looking for answers and to 'fix myself'. During a long ago guided meditation I trekked up a steep hill to see the Master. I was overjoyed when he handed me a thick book. I opened it and every page was blank.

 

Before Enlightenment: Chop wood, carry water.

After Enlightenment: Chop wood, carry water.

 

Rats, you mean that's all??????

 

I play a lot of Spider Solitaire on a tablet. 2 suits. My path to 'enlightenment'?

 

Everything works and nothing works until it does. It is only in HINDSIGHT that I will see anything, really. Judgements and interpretations.

 

Where's the owners' manual for for living as a human? The RIGHT way is what I think I want.

 

Oh, crap. What if there really is no manual or it's blank????? Momeeeee! Dad-eeeee! God! Please help!

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

It looks as though I have been posting nonsense here and I need to stop. I just to not feel well at all, like I am losing my mind. Too aware of everything and feeling overstimulated though I don't know why. My legs feel tired. Don't really have to get groceries today so I am just not going. My friend came over to get her dog and I tried to articulate to her what I was feeling. During our talk, I ended up crying, and felt some really deep sorrow. My forehead hurts now. The unpredictability of this state scares me and I feel as though all of my nerves are exposed. She suggested something really neat: going to the little beach here, walking barefoot in the mud. I perked up a little at that but decided for this day not to go. I just feel so wired and the best I can manage is to go back home and take a nap. Before she left, I told her about the Master and the blank book and the "chop wood" and she laughed so hard because she had heard that one too! There's where the sorrow came, re-living the memory of how I felt when I heard those words - so disappointed that that's how it is. I think what really happens is that the content of life remains the same but the quality changes. I made some flippant remark about 'walking on water' and she asked me why I would ever want to do that. Would you believe I actually wanted to do that at one time? So I said something about it being done by changing its quality, swim in earth and walk on water and turns out we both read about it in the same book! "Illusions" by Richard Bach. She had copy of it in the car and I thumbed through it for that saying I knew was in there and it turns out it is: "Everything in this book may be wrong". The last line.

 

The ringing in my ears is really loud today.

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SaltedGingkoNuts

Your posts reflect exactly what you are going through. The beauty of this site is that you can post ANYTHING and someone will relate to it. It's actually kind-of a sad statement: that there are so many who share your experiences. But then again, it's actually quite comforting knowing there are those who understand.

This experience really is one day at a time. Have you created a daily chart or journal (other than this) to keep your thoughts in? I'm finding it helps to look back and see where I was as compared to where I am now. Although, any little step back feels like a HUGE step back. I know in my heart I'm moving forward. It's just hard to get the mind to cooperate.

Many blessings to you.

Keep Fighting the Good Fight,

-Tim :)

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Thanks for your comment! I recognize you as one who sent me a personal conversation request. I did not know what to do with it as I am just learning this site. I have been forgetting to log off the site when I leave my comp so my on/offline status is not accurate. So hello and hope you are doing well!

 

I'm not sure if I did anything to cause the crazy thinking that occurred after I joined the site, maybe I'll just chalk it up to wd and not obsess on it. I had been using my intro page as a journal because when typing a post my thoughts seem to flow out, something pen and paper just don't do, or do do but it is just messy stream-of-consciousness stuff that makes no sense or is just so darn depressing to read. A posting seems to demand that I clearly articulate myself. But I am forgetting that there are REAL people on the other side of these electrons. Oooops!

 

But this is so weird: all I mentioned, the thoughts that I was thinking, actually make a crazy sense to me. And reading them over sparked an uncomfortable emotion (really uncomfortable emotion, buried so deeply I hadn't ever remembered it was there. It is common in depressives, it and it's brothers and sisters) which I then started researching on the net. And happened on a site where there is an online book I've started to read about effective self-help. No wonder cure here and work is indeed involved. Not quackery, just calm application of rational good psychological principles and how to use them in making changes. (Depression is listed as something that can be relieved by self help, effective self help. I hope so). But just maybe a light at the end of a long, ugly tunnel that my life seems to have been. Not going to post a link as I think that is not allowed and I haven't come upon any mention of it here. But this the first mention I have ever found, in all of my searching for answers, that promises me an actual guide on how to go about making changes. I am only at the beginning of chapter 2. And what will come of actually doing it, or what I choose to tackle and trying out the different suggestions, how to measure progress, etc, who knows? An internet search can get you there. I'm just not going to recommend anything anymore, I've gone down lots of blind alleys and surely have mis-advised others, well intentioned I may be.

 

Today at a recurring job I do the symptom that preceded ALL of my depressions and sent me to the docs occurred. Crying uncontrollably at work. That is when I always knew I was in trouble, that in addition to my 'flights of fancy', low mood, etc.

 

But

I

just

didn't

do

anything.

 

No explanations of my emotional state, no apologies, no leaping up and running out (and to the doc). Kept working, tears subsided, job got done. The day and the job finished uneventfully. No obsessive rehashing in my mind later. This is not the 'self' I am familiar with.

 

!

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Thanks for the note, Alto. Yes, the neuro emotions and maybe the uncovering of the depression I feel I have always had. Major symptom always crying. The 2 probably co-exist and in the absence of anything concrete to DO, I have decided in most cases to refrain from doing much of anything I habitually do. The anhedonia and apathy situation actually may be a helpful thing. I'm finding those states are changeable, not 'rock bottom' or complete..

 

Even the crying is different. When not accompanied by rumination (I'm too tired to ruminate), just changing my focus to whatever (like in that case, just an attention to the mechanics of grooming a dog) it just stopped. When I was all done, I asked the client if she wanted me back in 2 wks or never wanted to see me again, she said of course! See you in 2 weeks! I think there is something to be said for me just shutting up in a non-angry, non resentful, non figuring out of a way to get even over what she said. I like the way that experience felt and worked out. Next time it hits out of the blue (or even when it may happen due to it being a coping mechanism of mine), I'll see if I may be able to just side track it. All the while not focusing too much on it.

 

Thanks for supporting me!

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Altostrata

Yes, "changing the channel" is a good way to manage neuro-emotions. You have the knack, you can do this.

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

So I was going to toss in a few cents about tinnitus in that thread. I still have it, had it in my signature initially but took it out. I am going to mention the online book I am reading: "Psychological Self Help" without any recommendations.

 

I stumbled across it while researching shame, narcissism, learned helplessness (related to my crying easily under stress.) Dutifully read the 1st chapter, started on the 2nd. Went right to the chapter heading on "Shame". Oh! Bradshaw!. I remember reading him in my 12 step years. But no concrete method to try, just some listing of what he felt are the ways it can be healed. Too much to take on at the moment. The author does recommend skipping to the appropriate chapters and although I would like to go straight for the biggies, I am going to start small and see if the methods work on something else first. As becoming an effective self helper is a lifelong process, time is not 'of the essence', the DOING of SOMETHING is necessary. Everything eventually has to be DONE.

 

So without realizing what had already been set in motion I woke this morn thinking about tinnitus and TMJ. Research: found one link where someone thinks they might be related because they are in the same anatomical space. But no concrete help. Another link: TMJ probably NOT caused by my bite shifting due a recent extraction and other things I hadn't considered. And counseling about not running off for certain treatments because nothing has really been proven yet. AND THEN LOTS AND LOTS OF SNAKE OIL SALES MEN/WOMEN! Then youtube for pete's sake!. Oh wait, there is some really good stuff there! A dentist demonstrating exercises to relieve it!

 

So my first project as a self helper. Relieving the TMJ by practicing the exercises. IGBTYOTO. (I'll get back to you on that one).

 

So tinnitus, hmmm. A side effect of SSRI withdrawal? Don't know, it's just there. And I have always had it I think. Some possibly snake oily "cures": An iPhone app (at ten bucks not gonna bite, don't do "i" anything). Go to the doc, can be due to plugged ears. Hey! When I was at the doc after my ER visit, he found one of my ears so plugged that it had to be irrigated. Ears were ringing off the charts (along with zzzzappps!) OK, I can do that one. Made an appt to see him and when I go I will ask him to do the doctor looky feely thing and see if he thinks anything major might be brewing in the absence of any ACUTE symptoms. A complete physical is in my future but will have to wait till the bank acct builds up again and I actively seek more work. I depleted the small reserve I allot myself by some purchases when this uncomfortable feeling state started up. 2 e-books: snake oily. The blu light: may work. And a near miss on what I think may have been a huge vat of oil which I saw someone mention here. TRB Health. Cancelled my desperate order just in time. I did more research after I placed it and came upon this site. That and a reference to TRB being founded by someone with CO$ "background" stopped that supplement/cure seeking thing in its tracks. I am not into any conspiracy stuff but that acronym referred to above, that whole thing, gives me the creeps. I see it as a synchronicity of sorts. I really like this board and the people who frequent it and I think it's right where I need to be. Not downing 'proprietary' supplements.

 

A long time ago I used to listen to Dr. Dean Edell on the radio. I think it was from him I heard about the way to get rich system. You come up with 'X'. ('X' is anything, a supplement, technique, whatever.) But 'X' MUST BE something that does no harm! And is probably ineffective to boot, I might add. You market 'X'. People try it: some will be helped, some not, some get worse. Placebo effect anyone? The ones that are helped buy again. The ones who it doesn't help are told maybe they are special and need more, didn't take/do it right, etc. The ones who get worse are told maybe something like "This sometimes happens in the beginning but is actually a good sign it is working" yada yada. And there is an ever expanding pool of gullible consumers waiting to churn through the system. $$$$$$$!

 

Maybe that's why ATGS isn't a major starting point on the road to recovery. It can't be 'sold' unless it is in conjunction with snake oil.

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Alto, you must have posted while I was composing my latest post. I like the changing channels analogy and yes, I hope I have a 'knack'. What happened was totally unexpected and if changing the channel was what got me to a result I like better than any of my usual coping behaviors then that's the way to go, I'm sure going to use it whenever I can.

 

Thank you very much! I knew this was the place for me to be!

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

I seem to have a bit of that typorrhea thing at the moment. I wanted to post a few things to remind myself of later.

 

The 7 year thing. I recently heard this one again. Something like 'in 7 years your body has replaced every one of its cells with a new one'. Huh? Did someone find a way to do the Autopsy Method without using a knife???? To absolutely scientifically verify this??? Or maybe some kind of extrapolating of known biological machinations, more likely. Every single cell? Enough! Too much to wrap my mind around. But I like the image of a 7 year clock ticking down and at that last tick the last emotion comes back. Um, which one? And when does that 7 years start exactly? (more thinking, more thinking....)

 

And this: I'm just going to mention it and see later if I feel ashamed of it. I am watching a thread started on another site (did I see it being linked from here? The favicon is the same as this site.) I described it in an earlier crazypost. Tried and discarded serial and concurrent polypharmacy to retrieve feeling states. Now waiting for an old treatment that's come back into possible favor to see if that will do the trick. I may be guilty of watching a train wreck unfold but there might be an object lesson here about the lengths to which desperate souls go in their quest to 'feel good'. Oh, I just don't want to go there.

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Tinnitus research: A study verified as started in March 2013 as noted on clinical trials dot org. Recruiting participants. Testing if sound generator PLUS directive counseling actually work. Sound therapy invented by guy in 1990's, already touted as the genius in this field but I haven't found a study actually verifying a cure. Haven't looked exhaustively and don't intend to. Probably basis for the iPhone app. So anyone see quick bucks machinery at work here? Also, puh-lenty of youtube vids, even one lasting 6 HOURS which may be someone's attempt at offering a free 'cure'. Lots of oily looking stuff. Don't really know if there already have been valid scientific studies verifying ANY cure for this malady. Mine is not a bother but for some it can be crippling. And where do post/tapering SSRI people fit in?

 

Mine is just a part of my experience and just there. Once, when I became aware of it in a 'metaphysical' lifetime, I had an insightful kind of thought that I was hearing either my body's energy or the energy of the 'universe'. So I didn't mind it at ll.

 

But end result is I'm still going to the doc. Passing on the TRT audio stuff. Not posting this in the tinnitus thread in order not to rain on someone's parade if they find a cure or coping therapy and because I have nothing helpful to add. And I'm changing the channel on it if I feel myself getting obsessed about it. Thanks Alto!

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Oh! Clinical trials dot gov has results of trials. But some may not be posted for various reasons. There have been several completed studies on 'tinnitus'. First listing completed 2009, no posting of results. ctdotorg is NIH.

 

Do any lay or otherwise people ever go there to research the effectiveness of 'cures' I wonder? And then there's the 'gaming' of the system thing to think about, does that happen at NIH?

 

Insightful experience and effective procrastination tool!

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