☼ Petunia: recovering from 13 years of antidepressant use

[Nikki]

I'm ok, in some ways, I think I'm more ok than I have been in a while, but in another way I'm finding it very difficult to understand a lot of what I'm reading and hearing.  Its making it difficult to communicate in writing.  I'm sure its just a stage of healing, but its frustrating.  I keep up with everyone here as best I can, but when it comes to posting, I just keep drawing a blank.  Its like, I know there is something I want to comment on or suggest, but...... then there's nothing there
 
Petu I have this....I want to post about myself and then stop and just try to help some of the others.  I attribute it to being tired of my own story.
 
The beach, salt water and sun can be very healing. I haven't gone in a very long time and it is walking distance from my home.
If you can muster up the courage to put your head under the water, you will feel even better at night when it's time for sleep.
 
I've been doing a lot of grieving too Nikki.  Mine actually goes back way before medication.  I've been grieving for the childhood I never had, forgotten dreams, wasted idealism, lost potential, and yes, all the years spent trying to please unpleasable people.
 
Then, there was the medicated years.  A few days ago I entered some of my past medications into an interaction checker and found out that for over a year I was taking two medications with a major interaction.  Phentermine and Lexapro.  I was also taking a PPI and steroid asthma medication.  None of which I now need, now I'm off Lexapro.
 
Petu grieving is huge and I think it opens doors to more grieving.  I am grieving alot of things too.  Ozzy of course and than that made me think of my other dogs.  We have put down (3) dogs since 2009 as soon as I got off Lexapro I had to put down my Silkie Terrier (Australian Yorkie)....2011 it was Milo a long haired chichuahua and now 2013 Ozzy.
 
Once the grieving door opens its like flood gates open.  I am grieving the loss of time tapering Lexapro - two years of hell.  A marriage where I wasted many years being mistreated.  The big one for me is not achieving my potential, realizing my gifts and pursuing a more productive life, and the time spent coping with anxiety.
 
Petu whenever I post something that is bothering me just like you have I find that alot of other people feel the same way.
 
You are not alone and you never let any of us feel alone.  I am very grateful you are here.  You have been a source of comfort for me.  I really mean that.
 
Hugs

[Petunia]

Thank you CW and Nikki, I'm still at the same place, having a difficult time connecting dots, putting my thoughts into words.  Feeling a bit better physically, anxiety type symptoms have subsided a bit, but there's very little motivation here.

 

If something very obviously needs to be done, or said, then I can do that, but apart from that, there's just nothing going on  here at the moment and no energy or motivation to push through it.  Maybe because there's no clear direction ahead.

 

The beach, salt water and sun can be very healing. I haven't gone in a very long time and it is walking distance from my home.

If you can muster up the courage to put your head under the water, you will feel even better at night when it's time for sleep.

 

 

Why will putting my head under the water make me feel better?  Would it work the same if I put my head under the water in the bath, or shower.  I put my ears under the water in the bath the other day, hoping it would somehow get rid of my tinnitus, it didn't.

 

Yesterday I finished a painting, started a new painting and made a textured background on a canvas, but there was no inspiration, just going through the motions, it was awful.  I was trying to do something I 'enjoy', a hobby, but I might as well have been sweeping the floor.

 

Then I went for a quick wander around the park, thought the exercise might help, but it didn't.  I need some caffeine to boost my mood, but its been over a week since I had my afternoon cup of weak tea and I want to avoid stimulants, but its hard.  My brain is struggling to drag itself out of this pit by itself I think.... trying to remember how to make its own chemicals without 'help'. 

 

I played some brain training games on the happy neuron site last night, thought that might stimulate some kind of positive growth of something up there.  It was a distraction for a while.  What I found interesting was that I seem to be better, very good actually, at tasks which use the right side of the brain.  I only found it interesting for a few seconds though, just a passing interest and then back to.....ok, what now?

 

I seem to have managed to drag a few paragraphs out of myself here, wonder if that means I'm feeling better

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Hi Petu,

 

I think it means you are feeling what you are feeling, period. I was so surprised at how you have been able to put into words just how I am feeling too - going through the motions. Because I have to, not because I want to. Everyone around me says I am getting better, I just don't see it or FEEL it myself. Maybe the same with you? I know I am not as 'sick' as I was but I am not well either. It is still 3 hours before I can head for bed and I'm done with the day already.

 

I tried a couple of times to play some crosswords on the net. Able to complete the puzzles but I felt so much anxiety in my stomach, how odd that is. Just a little while ago I got the same feeling in my stomach again and the vibration too. Just from sitting here. My back muscles are all tight. Mom rubbed some magnesium oil on them and I have the heating pad on. It is from too much sitting, I know. My calf muscles are tight too.

 

I really feel for you and feel helpless to offer any support except to say that I am pretty sure I know how you feel. Not very good but not rock bottom bad, as in physically ill. This is a hard place to be, mentally flat. I send hugs and prayers and hope you know you are not alone. You really matter to all of us no matter what you write.

[MrAnxious]

Merry Christmas petu and you are slowly recovering, put your faith in your journey. Follow enlightment and know that everyday is a day of healing and one day that healing will end and you will appreciate this experience but will be glad its come to a end. You inspire me and have always been there for me and I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Keep up the fight because you are going to and are doing great things, its just harder for you to notice. Have you tried co q 10 yet? Its really helped my energy and fatigue levels I believe. I still feel overwhelming anxiety at times but am learning ways to deal with it and they are working. I still have to wean off buspar but I'm taking it slow I'm just glad I can kiss effexors butt goodbye and now one day I will be drug free. We are all in this together and if you ever need anything come to my post take care for now and now that we all care about you and its going to get better just gotta ride some waves first

[Nikki]

Petu when I was tapering Lexapro back in 2007 and 2008 I could not remember anything.  It was hard to connect the dots like you said.  Spelling was difficult and I was always a terrific speller. I am having trouble spelling once again from the Celexa WD.  It does pass.

 

You are not giving yourself credit or seeing that you have had motivation to do things.  Beach, walks, painting, training games.

You are moving, not stagnating.  This is the first step in resuming your life.  Keep at it without judgement.

 

I love this saying:  Move a muscle, change a thought.  This is what you are in process with.  Somehow we put ourselves down and don't see progress if we don't do it perfectly.

 

Keep moving forward without judging yourself harshly.....Hugs

[Petunia]

Thanks everyone for your recent comments and words of encouragement. 

 

I tried a couple of times to play some crosswords on the net. Able to complete the puzzles but I felt so much anxiety in my stomach, how odd that is.

 

Very odd, and I'm having the same thing happening to me.  I was just playing an online solitaire game, 

trying to get a high enough score to advance to the next level, my anxiety and stress was like I was about to jump out of a plane or go bungee jumping, even had to run to the bathroom a couple of times.  I stopped playing, too much excitement for one day

 

Have you tried co q 10 yet? Its really helped my energy and fatigue levels I believe.

 

I've been taking CoQ10 100mg per day for about 6 months and I just stopped taking it, 4 days ago.  I didn't really notice any difference from taking it, but then I started reading about how it may be activating, so I decided to take a break.  But as is usually the way, its confusing.  The very next day, after I didn't take it, I felt better than I had in a while, a typical window kind of day.  But then the following day, it was back to 'normal'.  So I don't know.  The longer this goes on, the more I'm believing that windows and waves are completely random. 

 

I've been depriving myself of the occasional cup of weak tea or coffee for over 2 weeks now, hoping that its 'helping', but so far, I'm thinking I'm depriving myself of that little bit of enjoyment for nothing.  It was true that if I made the cup too strong, I would get a small spike in anxiety, but now, I'm just getting spikes in anxiety from other things anyway, like boring card games.

 

You are not giving yourself credit or seeing that you have had motivation to do things.  Beach, walks, painting, training games.

You are moving, not stagnating.  This is the first step in resuming your life. 

 

Thanks Nikki, I guess I am doing more than some people, or at least I'm trying to do things.  I'm trying to resume some kind of a life..... but much of the time it backfires on me, and I wonder if I'm ready to resume anything.  I think I have more acceptance to do first.

 

If I'm not very careful about making sure I'm already feeling 'better' before I do something, I end up with a kind of feedback loop of bad associations, which make it even harder to attempt the activity the next time.  Its like I'm ruining any chance of being able to enjoy doing things in the future.  I'm scared I've now ruined painting.  The last time I got my paints out, I wasn't feeling particularly motivated, but I told myself I 'should' do something enjoyable.  I felt awful the whole time, but kept going, finished off one, started a new one, made a textured background, but there was no pleasure or satisfaction, there seemed no point, why do something enjoyable if I can no longer enjoy it?  I'm not even watching painting vids any more, the whole thing now has a dark cloud around it.

 

Intellectually, I know my feelings aren't connected with any particular activity.  During my one recent window kind of day, I was actually enjoying the challenge of trying to unblock plumbing (again), even when I wasn't successful, I was still quite calm and accepting.  I was at peace, having to mop the kitchen floor 5 times in order to get rid of the stickiness from my daughters recent attempts at making jelly pops.

 

Its been difficult, being surrounded by a culture celebrating a major holiday, hearing about the details, trying to be enthusiastic and interested, when I can't even eat a couple of chocolates or more than one mouthful of cake, without suffering horribly for the next 2 days.  Maybe that's what's wrong with me now, I ate some cake.

 

Three Christmas holidays spent in withdrawal.

 

I've been avoiding my own thread because it reminds me too much of myself.  I don't seem able to help myself very much and its frustrating, confusing and depressing.

 

This complete lack of control over how and when symptoms flare up is ..... beyond words.  Even with a certain predictability, that I will feel better towards the evening, its still so hard, having no control.  I seem programmed to believe that I do have control and that I should be able to behave and think myself functional.  I can function, I've been forcing myself to function for about 2 years now, that's the problem, I function, survive, exist, get by on the minimum of activity, to reduce stress.  Is this life?

 

I've watched 3 movies over the last 3 days, that's more than I've watched all year.  It just hasn't been possible, most TV and movies have been too emotionally stimulating. So this must be a sign of improvement... right?

 

I had a weird, disturbing dream last night.  I was pregnant, in hospital, had been there for days trying to give birth, but it just wasn't happening.  I was having to go through a string of surgical procedures, trying to facilitate the birth, but nothing was working.  In the dream I had woken up one morning and was wandering around in my hospital gown.  I went into a bathroom and was looking at my latest surgical wound in the mirror.  One of my 'doctors' came in and we were casually chatting, he was very perplexed about my case and didn't know what to try next, but he didn't seem too worried.  He left and I stared at myself in the mirror, wondering if I would ever be able to get this 'thing' out of me, the thought crossed my mind that I may have to live like this for the rest of my life, I got a surge of panic and told myself I have to try harder, but I didn't know how, or what else I was supposed to do.  Then I woke up...

 

.... into my real life nightmare of hot flashes, cold chills, waves of nausea and panicky thoughts.  I tried to go back to sleep, but it didn't work.

 

 

.

[mammaP]

I'm sorry you are feeling so bad Petu, hoping for a window for you very soon. 

Huge Mamma hugs. xx

[Jemima]

I know it's a hard thing to accept, but much of what we go through in withdrawal *is* out of our control and "trying harder" accomplishes nothing except making us feel guilty that our "trying" somehow isn't enough.

 

Your drug history spans about sixteen years, and those were pretty rocky years with lots of changes from one med to another or some medication to none, and that leaves a lot of repair work for your brain to do for itself.  You've only been off the meds completely for seven months and I would be very, very surprised to see anyone recover completely in that period of time.

 

There's something about the holidays that seems to make it even worse.  I was absolutely wretched last Christmas and the feeling hung on for some weeks afterward.

 

It really will get better, but it will be slow and gradual with lots of windows and waves.  Please try to keep in mind that the overall trend line is up.

[alex]

I am so sorry Petu; after a quite good month, I'm having one of the worst and longest waves: anxiety, depression, exhaustion.

 

Hang in there, I am.

It must be the Holydays.

[Barbarannamated]

Petu,

 

It's my 3rd holiday, also, and was the worst by far (family stuff). Not that that makes yours any less bad, but just saying "I understand". The DP/DR is horrible, like a dissociated hangover state.

[Petunia]

Thanks everyone

 

No bad dreams last night and the hot/cold flashes have subsided again.  I've had a headache all week, turned into a migraine yesterday and now its gone, still got other unpleasant things going on, but it looks like the worst of this wave is over.

 

Counting my blessings right now.  Its blissfully quiet around here today,  it hasn't got unbearably hot yet, and usually by this time of the year it has.

[alex]

Thanks everyone

 

No bad dreams last night and the hot/cold flashes have subsided again.  I've had a headache all week, turned into a migraine yesterday and now its gone, still got other unpleasant things going on, but it looks like the worst of this wave is over.

 

Counting my blessings right now.  Its blissfully quiet around here today,  it hasn't got unbearably hot yet, and usually by this time of the year it has.

 

Hang in there my dear friend!!

 

So am I!!

 

Hugs,A.

[Petunia]

I had been completely off caffeine for about 3 weeks, but nothing had changed, if anything, I've been feeling worse and the last 3 days, I've developed a new kind of anxiety feeling, like as if along with the usual physical symptoms of it, there has been a new, deeper underlying tone to it, that's the best I can do to explain it.

 

Last night I watched a video interview with Rick Hanson, Ph.D.,  a neuropsychologist, I found it depressing.  He was explaining how to increase happiness and enjoyment in life by taking the time to focus on the good feeling which arise as much as possible, in other words to stretch them out by paying attention to them.  He was saying something like "neurons which fire together, wire together".

 

I realized that there is no hope for me because I'm just not getting any good feelings from anything, in fact, I get bad feelings randomly triggered all the time and I figured that these bad feelings are getting 'wired' together more and more with everything I'm doing and that's probably what happened with my recent attempts at painting.  I can have a few reasonable experiences with doing something, but all it takes is one 'bad' experience, and it seems to reset me right back to the beginning.  The way this guy explained it makes sense, we are genetically wired to more easily remember negative, potentially life threatening events for the benefit of survival.

 

I don't recommend watching the video, but here its the link for anyone interested.  Maybe I got it all wrong, in my depressed, negative state and what he was saying was hopeful.

 

So anyway, I woke up even more miserable, feeling like I am completely doomed.  By this afternoon I was feeling hopeless, the only time my mood seems to lift these days, and life feels worth living for a couple of hours is if I have a cup of tea, so that's what I did, I gave in and made a cup, I even put in some milk and sugar.  I will probably regret it tomorrow, but for now, I'm feeling a bit better.  The anxiety lifted, I got some energy to help my daughter with her latest project of fixing up the patio.... its effects are wearing off now though, feeling a bit depressed again, but the anxiety hasn't come back.

 

Maybe I just got the withdrawal/holiday blues, people are excited, making their plans for tonight's celebrations and all I want to do (again), is sit in bed, by myself, playing facebook games, drinking warm milk, which makes my nose get blocked up, but I don't care because drinking warm milk feels comforting.

 

I hope 2014 is a better year for everyone.

 

 

[bubble]

Dear Petu,

 

it was a pleasure reading you. I find this forum such a blessing because it not only allows me but it gives me a licence to feel and be as GLOOMY as I sometimes NEED to be (which I find so very healing).  

 

You describe all those states we are all going through so well that you give form to our internal horror that we very often can't even articulate.

 

My depression has at the moment taken the form of extremely low energy and motivation while my mental functioning seemed to have remained intact so I actually feel positive and hopeful.

 

Yes, thinkinging we will never get out of this hole, thinking we are only going in deeper and desire to even bury ourselves more is so typical of WD, it's neuroemotion. It means it passes. And yes, in such states we wire things in such a way as to intensify our gloom. It's  a well know psychological pattern: when our spirits are high, we remember good memories and positive things and when we are down, we remember bad ones that pull us even lower.... sometimes I find it best to wallow in it and sometimes I cut it by forcing myself to socialsie with positive people full of good energy or communing with nature.

 

As you wrote to my thread recently to remind me that holiday season is stressful for us, I'm here reminding you back For years I've found holiday season to make me feel even more depressed. I guess we all feel the same. there is this implicit order in our little global village that we should all be merry and of good cheer and if we can't, then we feel even more isolated than usually.

 

I've sort of made peace with that. I allow myself not to join the 'universal' gaiety. A lot of 'normal' people actually don't enjoy it at all and very few people are actually happy about it but just feel they have to obey the social custom and pretend. (and after they initially force themselves into the obligatory mood, very often with the help of alcohol, they catch up after a whiel and think tehy had fun).

 

I feel almost the same as you with the little exception that all I want to do is LIE in bed (sitting is too demanding and driniking cranberry tea for my bladder infection.

 

(there is a beautiful cartoon I would like to paste somewhere here but for some reason it's just isn't working...)

 

Let's allow ourselves to celebrate the New Year's Eve in this alternative way! Let's even say 2014 will be full of waves (but will ride them) but most importantly, we have each other.

 

Big hug,

 

bubble

[Petunia]

Just want to document a few things.

 

Its been several days since I left the house.  Last time was when I went grocery shopping, it was like being on a bad drug trip, everything around me was distorted (again).  I was also suddenly overcome with fatigue and had a very hard time continuing.

 

Hot/cold flashes have increased again, they are coming on average about every hour through the day, all day now.  At the beginning, the were very intense, lasted for a few hours in the mornings and then picked up again in the night and woke me up.  Now they are not as intense, but last all day and through the night, no associated sweating though, I can go back to sleep easily at night though.

 

I'm feeling very tired now, this is new.  Also, I'm yawning a lot, also new.

 

I think I've developed a bad reaction to camomile tea, its now increasing anxiety and making my tinnitus worse. But this could be my imagination.... no, I don't think it is, it got worse right after I started drinking some.

 

Sinuses have been getting blocked up at random times through the day, then they will clear just as suddenly.

Inner shaking and general feeling of vulnerability is lasting all day at the moment. Increased sensitivity to sound again and

hypervigilance is back.

 

I've been getting physically hungry, but no desire for anything.  But I've been eating better with lots of raw salads, grains, eggs, some meat and fish, no processed or junk food. I did eat a few sweet things over Christmas though, maybe that's whats wrong with me now.

 

On a positive note, I've been able to watch a few movies, and other somewhat emotionally arousing things, still not getting pleasure or enjoyment, but they have been ways to pass time and have served as a distraction.  One movie I watched was a mistake though, it was very depressing and seemed relevant in a way.

 

Even though this wave began before I drank a few cups of tea, I seem to be associating it with the caffeine, and now I'm scared to drink more.  Actually, I'm getting scared of more and more things, now camomile tea?  Fear is here almost all the time now and it gets associated with everything I do or eat or drink, I guess its that brain wiring system, meant to protect me.  If I don't rise above this and hang onto my logic, I'm going to end up not being able to move or eat anything.

 

Another strange thing going on here, which has nothing to do with me is that its cold.  This time of the year, every year, we are usually suffering from very high temperatures, Jan/Feb are supposed to be our hottest months.  I'm actually happy its not hot, this time last year it was bad, and we kept getting power cuts, so there was no way to get relief.

 

My life has shrunk down to almost nothing.  At first, it seemed like it was voluntary, I intentionally simplified my life to reduce stress so that I could recover.  But now, it feels like I've completely lost control, I haven't recovered and because I'm in a wave, its looking like there is no hope and now I can't do anything about my shrunken life if I wanted to, which I don't, which also scares me because that sounds like I've given up..... which I haven't, but its looking and feeling very much like I don't have a choice but to give up.

 

Maybe its that I'm confused between giving up and acceptance.  I'm still struggling with acceptance, letting go of my illusion that there's something I can 'do'.  Acceptance means I stop looking for solutions, that feels too much like giving up.

 

Its obvious that recovery is happening, because the intensity of my symptoms is less than they were a year ago, and obviously less than 2 years ago, but its strange how that doesn't seem to register, its like everything is relative.  The wave of negative emotion triggered by random events is less intense, but its still there, I notice it and if effects me, now in a magnified way because I seem more sensitive, weaker, run down, tired, hopeless and ......

 

...... left side of my brain seems to be going to sleep now, this process of forming sentences is getting glitchy again.

 

Been staring at this flashing cursor for about 5 minutes, almost forgot that I have to press the 'add reply' button. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mammaP]

Oh Petu I am so sorry you are so down and feeling wretched. I wish I could make it better for you,

for everyone. Withdrawal is the pits and I really feel for you. I hope this wave soon abates for you, it

must feel more like a tsunami than a wave!  I sincerely hope that you feel better very soon. 

 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Hi Petu,

 

I am always surprised when someone writes about the same symptoms I am having. I experience the temperature fluctuations too, and most often at night. It got cold and very windy here last night, the wind kept me awake after my first sleep of the night, about 4 hours.It gradually got colder and I would alternately bundle up and then get too hot. It is so confusing.

 

I don't know what to say about the caffeine thing, I have just stayed away from it completely and if I need a hot drink to warm up, I usually drink milk or an herbal tea. Rest of the time it is water. No chocolate either. Like you, I shy away out of some things out of fear.

 

The chamomile tea is something I limit myself to one cup a day, either at bedtime or if I wake in the middle of the night. I don't know if drinking too much of it is a problem so I just limit it out of caution since I don't know how my system would react to too much.

 

We seem to be fighting the same battle, along with others here. Some days I just stop struggling so hard and slow down. I Don't know if that is called acceptance or what but I do know it helps in an odd way. It helps me calm down a bit and not give in to fear an anxiety. But we are all different in how we process things.

 

As ever, I send well wishes and hugs!

[Barbarannamated]

Giving up vs. Acceptance -- a topic unto itself. Love your posts, Petu.

[Petunia]

..... so this morning I woke up about 2 hours later than normal and was pleasantly pleased, I didn't feel too bad either, not as bad as some mornings.  Then, within an hour, I was overcome with the most intense mood/feeling of fear/despair/frustration/anger that I've had in a long time. It was like a combination of all the negative emotions rolled up into one tight ball inside my stomach, actually there were several of them, all clanking around in there.  I had the sense that I needed to keep very still so that they wouldn't move around so much.

 

It got worse and worse and I was getting close to panic, not knowing what to do, not understanding, once again shocked by the unpredictable nature of this 'thing'.  It reached a kind of peak, then started to subside, enough so that I could get up, move around and do some things.  I found myself in the bathroom, spraying the bath with bleach and scrubbing it with a long handled brush.  I noticed the fumes from the bleach, thought it probably wasn't doing me any good, but nothing I do or don't do seems to help anyway, so I just breathed them in, wondering if maybe it might actually help

 

About an hour ago, I suddenly started to feel quite a bit better.  It was a relief. Its very frightening to be at the mercy of these unpredictable, intense emotional states which I have no control over.  Before withdrawal, I always had a xanax safety net, if it ever got really bad, I could take something to bring my spiraling emotions and myself back under control.  Now I'm having to learn how to stay calm all by myself and endure the feelings, while they do whatever they are doing.

 

Its not so bad if I'm by myself.  But my daughter has been having friends over quite a lot since Christmas and just having people in the house seems to make me feel worse, increases the anxiety over not having control over myself.  Then there are other times when I'm afraid being alone and wish that I had someone who would just sit with me, quietly, not doing anything or saying anything, just to make sure I'm ok as the worst of the symptom passes, but who is going to sit silently, not moving, calmly keeping watch, not projecting their own emotions about the situation at me in my hyper sensitized state.  I seem to pick up the slightest hint of discomfort in other people and it gets added to my own emotional load.

 

I managed to get out of the house 2 days in a row, Friday and Saturday.  Took the car one day, got some groceries and it was ok, no altered perceptions this time.  Walked to the shops the next day...very slowly because anxiety and DR was up, wanted to try and stay as calm as possible, it was ok, but it was a relief to get back home.

 

Something strange has been going on with my big toes ever since I stopped taking Lexapro in 2010.  I didn't notice it at first, but over time I've noticed a pattern.  At irregular intervals, I will get some pain in either of them which lasts a few days, never both at the same time and its not really bad, just annoying and strange.

.

But the thing which I find most interesting is that there has been an unusual growth pattern in the nails.  At first, they were completely out of sync, not sure which one started, but the nail started to grow differently with a definite ridge and different color, the new growth was less thick, a darker pink and seemed somehow 'healthier'.  When this new growth was half way along one toe nail, it started to happen with the other one, they have gone through this process a couple of times each, but they were never even.  But now, I just just noticed a new ridge at the base of each nail, with some dark pink coming through, but this time, they are lined up.

 

....it hasn't taken me long to come up with a hypothesis about what this actually means....finally, my brain is becoming balanced again, the left and right side have started to cooperate, now all I need is for both toes to get sore at the same time and I will be sure of it

 

 

 

 

[lespaul19]

thats awesome petu, it sounds like your learning how to deal with the anxiety's on your own which is tough. especially withdrawal anxiety, once your recovered im sure youll sneeze at any regular anxiety!

[bubble]

I so got used to looking forward to reading Petu's updates the moment I see them

 

Although you sometimes say you feel they might be too gloomy so decide not to post, despite the difficult feelings you so precisely convey, your posts feel me with hope and strength.

 

I remember one line from St. Paul I think: my strength is made perfect in weakness (as a teenager (!) I used to be a regular churchgoer but now I had to google it to find the proper English translation

 

For me Petu, you exemplify this sentence. Somehow I don't feel like writing words of comfort or support for you or give you any advice.... I just feel so happy and lucky to be part of this community where our darkest states don't inspire dread in other human beings when we need them most and yet are the least capable of being with them...

[Rhiannon]

I so got used to looking forward to reading Petu's updates the moment I see them

 

Although you sometimes say you feel they might be too gloomy so decide not to post, despite the difficult feelings you so precisely convey, your posts feel me with hope and strength.

 

I remember one line from St. Paul I think: my strength is made perfect in weakness (as a teenager (!) I used to be a regular churchgoer but now I had to google it to find the proper English translation

 

For me Petu, you exemplify this sentence. Somehow I don't feel like writing words of comfort or support for you or give you any advice.... I just feel so happy and lucky to be part of this community where our darkest states don't inspire dread in other human beings when we need them most and yet are the least capable of being with them...

 

Yes, I too find Petu's posts uplifting, even or especially when the times are rough.

 

And Bubble, you are so articulate in English, even poetic!

 

Hi Petu--hugs to you. I am amazed at what great, calm advice you give others, even through your own storms.

[Rhiannon]

Also, Petu, this might not be relevant for you at all, but I found when I got into the GAPS diet and paying attention to how the state of my intestinal flora affected my emotions, that when things were awry I would get those intense feelings that seemed to be literally coming from my gut. I think it's the vagus nerve. If you want to know more about that, read about the enteric nervous system and what they're learning about intestinal flora and how they affect behavior. I think the messages from the "second brain" (the gut brain) are transmitted via the vagus nerve. I can really feel it sometimes and it feels just like intense, strong, harsh feelings coming from my gut.

[Petunia]

Yesterday, my symptom set seemed to reach a kind of climax, by mid-morning I felt so incredibly bad that...... well, there really aren't any words, so I'm not even going to try.  By 3:30 in the afternoon, when my Mum came over, the intensity of it had lifted slightly, but I was exhausted on every level, to the point where there wasn't even any energy to 'try' anything.  My will, if you like was completely broken, I was given up, beyond anything I was in control of.

 

But then something unexpected happened, in that act of giving up, completely and not caring any more, I found myself doing what for me, these days is a very complex task, and talking at the same time.  I made proper machine coffee for my mum, the way she has it, and then me, the way I have it (decaff) without any mistakes, while keeping up a conversation.  I didn't realize I had managed to do that until later in the night.  If I had died, right then, in that moment, I wouldn't have cared, it would have been a relief, but I still managed to make 2 very good cups of coffee??

 

So, that was yesterday, and today has been a much better day by comparison.  The intense body pressure and agitation from yesterday seems to have reduced.  I just got back from the store, which was fairly easy too, bought some probiotics, thought it was time I gave that a try, seeing as I've been reading so much about them here.

 

One more thing I want to write about today is that I've finally found some 'quality' confirmation that something I've suspected for a long time is most likely true.  When there is in increase in solar activity, my symptoms seem to be worse.  I've been tracking it for a while now, after finding one web site with some information here.

 

But this morning I stumbled onto more information via a video here Solar Flares & Physiological Changes

 

I was on a mission, following links, watching more videos from the channel. You see, 2 days ago, the sun developed one of the biggest sun spots in a long time and there has been very high flare activity, its big news among the space weather watching community, so for me it made sense that I would feel worse, which I did, but now, I've found confirmation via a group of people with various sensitivities who also track this and have a lot of evidence based on sound research.

 

There are studies which show increased geomagnetic activity effects human health, so, for me, this is another piece of the puzzle.  There is still nothing we can do about it, but maybe, what might seem like a random wave of symptoms might not be so random after all.

 

If anyone else is interested, blog is here and facebook page is here The Sun and Human Health

[Petunia]

Thank you all, for your recent comments on my thread, I really appreciate the support.

 

Also, Petu, this might not be relevant for you at all, but I found when I got into the GAPS diet and paying attention to how the state of my intestinal flora affected my emotions, that when things were awry I would get those intense feelings that seemed to be literally coming from my gut. .......

 

Well this is a spooky coincidence I was writing at the same time you posted this Rhi.  If you read my previous post you will see I just bought some probiotics.... today, just took the first one, so I will see how I go.

[bubble]

These 'coincidences' about intestinal flora are really interesting

 

I've been reading a lot from what Alto wrote about probiotics and of course it's not just taking any probiotic...I'm taking some but think it's not the right thing or in the right amounts but I'm getting there. I think Alto suggests bifidus adolescentis, not too many strands (if that's the word) and that it should say they are active (or alive?). Suggested also buying from iHerb.com that ships products abroad.

 

I find your inforamtion on solar activity influence on the way we feel extremely interesting because I noticed my extreme sensitivity to weather long ago. And although I can't do much or anything about it, it still helps immensely to know that things don't just happen at random but they have a cause. To me at least, it makes it a lot more tolerable. I look forward to studying the links in more detail.

 

Also Rhi, thank you for such a nice massage of my ego (that poor battered thing I'm not a native English speaker but I studied English language and literature and like experimenting with the language I don't even mind that I make mistakes, use words in odd combinations or contexts Also Petu and I were writing about our poetic inclinations (and their loss under ADs). So getting in touch with my feelings and conveying them in writing is a very significant indicator of my recovery. Like reclaiming myself.

 

And Petu, when you write about the miracle of talking and making coffee after or while feeling totally disabled, I found out I can even work and deliver in similar states. It's far from pleasant but it happens...

 

I so hope this bad wave is soon behind you, Petu!

 

bubble

[Altostrata]

If you're buying probiotics, I suggest you buy them locally. Shipping abroad will take too long for most probiotics.

 

Homemade sauerkraut is loaded with probiotics. Make sure it's naturally cultured and contains live cultures.

[Petunia]

If you're buying probiotics, I suggest you buy them locally. Shipping abroad will take too long for most probiotics.

 

 

Yes, I got the kind that have to stay cold, so bought them from my local pharmacy.

[Petunia]

I've been reading a lot from what Alto wrote about probiotics and of course it's not just taking any probiotic...I'm taking some but think it's not the right thing or in the right amounts but I'm getting there. I think Alto suggests bifidus adolescentis, not too many strands (if that's the word) and that it should say they are active (or alive?).

 

What kind are you taking?

 

I got 'Inner Health Plus' by Ethical Nutrients, they are made here in Australia.  Not sure how good they are but this is what they contain:

 

25 Billion Good Bacteria:

 

Lactobacillus acidophilus (NCFM) organisms

12.5 Billion

Bifidobacterium lactis (Bi-07) organisms

12.5 Billion

Colostrum Powder - Bovine

67 mg

 

.... I wonder how they count all those little bacteria.

 

I suddenly woke up in the middle of the night with my heart pounding and chest tight, this is a first for me.  I've had an elevated heart beat before, but its always had an obvious cause.  Then there was the chest tightness, I've never felt that before.... this woke me up.

 

If I didn't know what it was, I probably would have been terrified.  It was still a bit scary, but I just did some slow, focused breathing, it subsided in a couple of minutes and I went back to sleep.  Not a good night though, kept waking up feeling too hot, lots of hot flashes.

 

When I woke up this morning, I checked on the solar activity/health facebook group page to see what was going on. Apparently, a CME from the sun which was released was due to hit the earth at some time which no one seemed sure about, but there were increasing migraines and lots of ear ringing.  I wondered if it had hit during the night (here) and that's what caused my sudden heart symptom.

[Rhiannon]

Oh good! Probiotics are good but they're only part of the picture. They can introduce useful bacteria, but if your gut doesn't provide the right conditions for them to grow, they won't be able to outcompete the bad guys. That's where diet comes in. I found that the important part of the GAPs protocol for me was (and still is, when I get in bad shape and have to clean up my act again) eliminating starches and refined sugar (honey and fruit seem to be okay for me).

 

Once I did it more strictly for four to six months, I was able to eat more starches again, and when I overdo it (like during the holidays, ouch!) I find it doesn't take long to get things back to feeling good again, just a week or two. 

 

I do find the fermented foods (yogurt, kefir, homemade sauerkraut) help too.

 

There's a whole thread on GAPs and of course a book, I won't try to go into it here. I just wanted to mention that the probiotics are good at inoculating your gut with helpful bacteria, but you need to provide them with the right environment to thrive and multiply and really get established, and I think that requires attention to diet; but once they're established, at least for me, I've had more slack.

 

Good luck, I hope this helps you as much as it has me!

[Petunia]

They can introduce useful bacteria, but if your gut doesn't provide the right conditions for them to grow, they won't be able to outcompete the bad guys.

 

Thanks Rhi, I spent a bit of time yesterday researching some of the things you mentioned in a previous post.  But I'm a bit confused now.  How do I know if my gut isn't providing the right conditions?

 

I've cut right back on sugar, mainly use a little honey now.  Very little fruit. I try and mostly eat, lean meats, salads, vegetables, whole grains, seeds, eggs, nuts.  Its not always easy though. I think my diet is probably better than its ever been, just because I've cut out so much of the bad stuff, like sugar, artificial sweeteners, caffeine, alcohol, processed foods, junk food, chocolate.

 

I don't have any digestive problems, no pain, no bloating, no constipation or diarrhea, my digestive process has been smoother than its been ..... well, ever really.  I sometimes get nausea in the mornings, as part of the cortisol/anxiety pattern, but I don't think that's related to diet.  I decided to try probiotics because of the connection between the gut and mood/depression etc.  I actually find it all very complicated.

 

I don't want to add stress to my life via a major diet change unless it was obviously necessary.  Finding alternative and unusual foods here isn't always easy.

[bubble]

I think I will stick to sauerkrat which my Mum made. It's has traditionally been an important part of winter cuisine of my ancestors. Lot of dishes are made with it here in winter and my father used to prepare a salad with fresh sauerkraut, beans and pumpkin seed oil. So I will just go back to what my ancestors in their wisdom did all the time

 

My father even made us eat chicken soups (with homegorwn chicken and lots of vegetables) and yestearday I read that such soups are one of the key things in GAPs diet. Another reason to totally revise the difficult role my father played in my life...

 

I started taking probiotics because I had to take antibiotics for my bladder infection. It's an Austrian product, 1x 10(9)cfu/g Lactobactilius acidophilius, Lactococcus lactis, Enteroc. Faecium, Bifidobacterium bifidum, Lactobacillus case, Lactobacillus salivarius.

 

I'm also trying to eat as healthy as I can (my father instilled some good eating habits in all of us: lots of vegetables, no sugar and sweets, let alone processed food). I'd like to focus more on avoiding gluten but nothing radical...

 

On Saturday I had a most dreadful migraine attack. The second time in my life. So I'm afraid I'll have to add that too to the list of my ailments The first time I went to the ER because I couldn't see properly, my balance was affected and then had an awful, you-want-to-hit-your-head-against-the-wall-headache. Thsi time I knew what it was so wasn't scared. The climate seems to be changing. Our winter is so unusually warm that spring flowers are coming out, bees woke up and are eating their food and when the weather gets cold they will all die quickly of starvation ;((( 

 

It seems only natural that humans will be adversely affected as well especially those of us who are already very sensitive...

 

I told my friends I feel like dinasours before they got extinct Just a joke

 

I'm so proud of myself that I went through 2 weeks of awful listless fatigue and now a week of increasing anxiety without changing anything about my meds (although I was so badly tempted at times...)

 

good luck to all of us

[mammaP]

It is very interesting about the sun and how these things can affect us.

My son and I both feel that the phases of the moon (and/or sun) affect us, and I've noticed

several times on facebook that many people on my friends list complain of things at the same time.

Insomnia or anxiety, headaches, palpitations etc.  I was all ready to updose slightly until I read your

thread and it reminded me that withdrawal might not be the only explanation for my recent insomna

and general  yukkiness. 

 

I'm glad you are feeling a little better Petu, and hope you get a nice window very soon. 

[areyouthere]

 

 

I'm so proud of myself that I went through 2 weeks of awful listless fatigue and now a week of increasing anxiety without changing anything about my meds (although I was so badly tempted at times...)

 

good luck to all of us

You should be very proud of yourself for this.

 

One of the most important first hurdles that all frightened newbie's has to jump through is the experience of feeling bad after a small taper, endure the discomfort without panicking and then experience the slow increase and bumps and jerks to eventually feeling normal again. WITHOUT CHANGING DRUGS OR DRUS DOSAGES!!! 

 

All people who are  successful taperers have learned this KEY to success:  taper a bit then trust your bodies' natural processes to heal the brain ON ITS OWN without making any further changes beyond the initial small taper. . The old saying "let nature take its course" fits here.

 

The sooner one learns this the sooner a successful taper protocol can proceed. Mess with this and you're just extending the amount of time it will take to heal.

[bubble]

Thanks RU, I think I'm starting understanding that and agree it's the key skill.

 

And as every skill, it requires practice. 2 weeks of total listlessness was loooong but it ended. I'm scared that constant anxiety is building up and might possibly explode into a panic attack. But I'm ready to 'treat' it without meds and wait for it to go away naturally.

 

Still holding after over 3 months and will continue to do so not until some specific time in my mind but until I have felt reasonably well for a certain period. I think I wouldn't be able to do it without the SA Waking up very anxious this morning I think I could feel in the background something akin to craving for more Xanax to take off the edge. But I just became aware of that sensation and let it go, got up and went about the day the way I planned it waiting for the anxiety to go away. It did and then came back but went away again. WITHOUT DRUGS..

[Altostrata]

You're learning the secrets -- sounds like you're doing better.