Vitamin B3 (niacin, niacinamide)

[Rhiannon]

Here's my experience with niacinamide:  Last night I tried a small amount (less than half of a 250 mg capsule, maybe a third) and it definitely had a sedative effect, but hours later after it wore off it felt like I was more activated than I was to begin with. Tonight sort of the same thing. I think if I needed it for acute anxiety it would be worth it, and tonight I got a nap in before work which was GREAT. So I'll probably continue to experiment with it from time to time.

[Edie]

I have used 500mg niacin in the evening for a  month now. I recently weaned off klonopin, but my anxiety has not increased. I think it might be because of the niacin, And oh.. I actually really love the flush, it's very relaxing.

[leahy]

I read an interesting piece on Niacin, GABA, vitamin C and xanax withdrawal.  I am literally sick and tired of this weaning process, so I keep researching in a desperate attempt to help myself. I am weaning off xanax and remeron. I have been holding at 1.5 xanax and 30 mg remeron. I feel terrible most days. There are a lot more waves than windows. It's like having a constant, wretched hangover.

 

Here's the link:

 

http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v10n09.shtml

[Altostrata]

Unfortunately, one cannot generalize from one case. Many people whose nervous systems have been sensitized by withdrawal cannot tolerate those very high dosages of supplements used by orthomolecular practitioners.

[leahy]

I agree Alto. I am not suggesting it is a solution. Like I said "I was desperately researching (reading)...

 

The key word here is desperate.

[rapunzel2]

Once I got accustumed to the flush, I started to really, really enjoy niacin! I take 500mg in the evening. I get a gentle flush now - I start to feel warm and very cosy in bed and then get sleepy, and relaxed and doze off. I like the feeling very much. for me, this works well. 

[leahy]

That's amazing, Rapunzel2. I've been experimenting with niacin, also and I think it's helping me to reduce xanax dosages more easily. I feel like I need less xanax to keep me stable. I think the headache was caused by me splitting the doses of remeron - 15 mg around 7 pm and 15 mg around 11.  I guess my body didn't like that split... Last night I took 30 mg at 9 pm and slept much better.

[Faithbarelysurviving]

Unfortunately, one cannot generalize from one case. Many people whose nervous systems have been sensitized by withdrawal cannot tolerate those very high dosages of supplements used by orthomolecular practitioners.

Dr Jhonathan Prousky Orthomolecular Psychiatrist

http://www.jonathanprouskynd.com/site/f5d2017340114a6a81a717813e2a84e4/default?url=http%3A%2F%2Fjonathanprouskynd.com%2FJonathanProuskyPublications.html#2762

 

http://www.jonathanprouskynd.com/site/f5d2017340114a6a81a717813e2a84e4/default?url=http%3A%2F%2Fjonathanprouskynd.com%2FPsychiatry.html#2648

[westcoast]

I fixed Faith's links and here they are:

 

 

Open-blind no-control withdrawal of 14 people in WD

(I think the relapsers angered him; you'll see. Seemed like an APA guy for a minute.)

http://jonathanprouskynd.com/uploads/Tapering_Success_and_Failure.pdf

 

 

Index of case studies and more. (One for nicotine addicition, even.)
http://jonathanprouskynd.com/JonathanProuskyPublications.html#2648

[westcoast]

Well, thanks but they were Faith's. They were gnargled underneath.

 

Some very interesting studies. Are you doing any of it now? I might.

[leahy]

Yes, I know the links were Faith's but I meant to say thank you for fixing them. Thank you to Faith, also. I started to read quickly last night and will read more carefully later. VERY interesting. I have been using/experimenting with many supplements and I do find it very helpful. I also have made it a point to get outside ever day lately to walk in the sun as part of my therapy. I feel like a frozen turkey, defrosting slowly. I can feel the thaw and it's nice to begin to feel like myself again from where ever I went for 16+ years. 

 

If you'e interested I'll write down the supplements later. I have a bit of a headache today (been doing a cut). I have learned now to rate the headaches on a scale of 1 to 10. This is a 3 making things feel like an effort. That's a whole lot better than a 10 though which requires a dark room all day, an epsom salts bath at 2 PM and pajamas by 3 PM.

 

All the Best, Leahy

[Faithbarelysurviving]

Niacin -vitamin B 3 The Amazing vitamin you have probably never heard of

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CDmNmLW5VeI

[Faithbarelysurviving]

Dr Anram Hoffer Father Of Niacin or B3 Vitamin talking sbout B3 And Alchoolism

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PH1_v0zh_gk

 

Natural cure Dr Abram Hoffer talking

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G0xPa0qVvl4

[Faithbarelysurviving]

Dr Abram Hoffer Father of orthomolecular therapy - Drug comp owned by Big Pharma

Tranquilizers and huge financial rewards

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RE2rpITjlhI

 

 

Dr abram Hoffer described his vitamin regimen : Niacin, his pref. vitamin, he attributed his longevity to Niacin

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PpQLkfDonNM

[Faithbarelysurviving]

Dr Abram Hoffer took Niacin for 57 yrs -lived to 91yrs

Woman in Canada took Niacin for long time- lived to 111 yrs

Linus Pauling nobel prize Winner -molecular medicine -father of the vit C megadose concept also took Niacin -lived to be 93yrs ole

 

Sorry for my writing and poor explanations, i am very very impaired

Maybe these articles and interviews do help somebody I pray... I have been taking Niacin for a couple of yrs, i am very very damaged, and I believe it helped me many times....I sure hope it does very hard to say but maybe in time it will slowly help my system somehow I pray. The flushing makes me feel better and sometimes it makes my head a bit clearer, like pulling me from the darkest darknes that cannot even be explained...

Faith

[Faithbarelysurviving]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jDizPUF3K_0

 

Schizofrenia can be cured up to 90% using Niacin

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lLFhf3vj44k

 

Doctor cures Schizophrenia in son:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UNneVL3u6HU

[oskcajga]

I've been taking 500mg of Nicatinamide, every day usually in the morning, and have noticed absolutely no effect.  Maybe I'll try switching to a nightly dose and see what happens. 

 

I've been using this brand:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Now-Foods-Niacinamide-Capsules-100-Count/dp/B000OSUDJQ

[chia1214]

Before I found this site and knew anything about WD, I tried many different supplements, including niacin. Since I didn't know much, I didn't really get relief from anything because I was in such mental chaos. But reading this niacin topic now, I recall I really liked the flush, it distracted my mind from itself for about up to an hour. 

 

I got to thinking...the flush could be used to excuse oneself from unavoidable anxiety producing social situations. So if I know the flush will occur 1/2 hour after I pop a pill, I can plan to "break out in a rash" at my own convenience. Then in addition to leaving a difficult situation behind, which would in itself quell the anxiety, I could revel in the humor of it all and get extra mileage from the release of those endorphins. So niacin could potentially provide the occasional beneficial experience, if one has been in prolonged and unabated mental anguish and just needs a quick break.

 

Of course this kind of thinking may reflect where I am at in my withdrawal process... 

 

Then I recall the time I accidentally put a niacin pill in hubby's morning pill cup. He came in from clearing brush all flushed and mildly alarmed, convinced he was either having an allergic reaction to some foliage or had been bitten by fire ants! His flush was quite severe and lasted several hours. It took a while for him to trust what was in his supplement cup after that, hehe.

 

Humor in niacin. And humor is good medicine. Can we use the word medicine on here?

 

But seriously, I am reading a bit now on here about the different supplements folks have tried and are trying and it's very helpful, so thanks everyone who shares their experience and knowledge.

 

-- Chia

[scallywag]

I've used niacin twice before as recommended by a naturopath applying an orthomolecular approach. First time I started with 500 mg niacin (nicotinic acid, not niacinamide); possibly the second time I started with half of that, 250 mg. The flush was unbearable even after a few days. I stopped.

 

The recommendation of niacin made sense to me and still does. I'm planning to try niacin again at some point in my taper, starting with a smaller amount.  Therefore, I've been looking for a source of capsules/tablets of niacin (not niacinamide or inositol hexanicotinate) with a small dose. 

 

I found a US-based manufacturer and seller that offers capsules of 25mg and 500 mg.  There is a 100mg formulation of niacinamide. The 25 mg capsules would definitely allow for gradual increases in dosage, especially if I open capsules and divide the powder. The niacin caps are niacin only, no colors, flavourings, or flow agents. The only things added are rice flour (as filler) and the gelatin capsule to contain it.  Aside from their own products, this supplier sells supplements from some very good brand names, e.g. Thorne Research and Pure Encapsulations.

 

Because the founder's philosophy is that "***ALL*** human disease is related to parasitic infection" (wikipedia), I'm reluctant to name the website. I think some of the protocols and cleanses are "kooky" and aren't for me.

 

If you search for "niacin (B3) capsules 25 mg" you'll find the source. There's probably enough information in this post for you to confirm you've found the right one. If that doesn't work, send me a message here on SA.

[Area1255]

My experience is it is uncomfortable at first, the flush as at first I didn't read about the differences between the two types of niacin. I used to have bad allergies so you can imagine that the redness on the neck and face from niacin is pretty scary at first. After a week it does seem to have a more calming effect, though.

[dante]

I used niacine for anxiety, it helps...but niacineamide different mechanism..it helped much for withdrawal process.

[Junglechicken]

Me and Vit B3 don't get on too well......I always experience Niacin flushes.

[JanCarol]

Abram Hoffer doesn't recommend no-flush niacinamide, it is the lowest on his efficacy list.

 

He places NADH at the top, then pure Niacin.  Close behind is inositol hexanicotinate.  

NADH is prohibitively expensive, niacin has that flush factor (I find it pretty unbearable, but, yes, when it is done, it is relaxing).

 

Inositol Hexanicotinate is chelated with inositol, which is a calming and healing amino acid.  It is also quite cheap! 

I take 1 gram per day, 1/2 each in afternoon and evening.

[DaisyBell]

I just want to say that I now use niacin (nicotinic acid) to sleep. For me I can tolerate 500mg but am trying to see if my sweet spot is less. I know find the flush pleasant and the sleep afterwards deep and I wake in the morning refreshed. I notice it can produce terrible stomach acid reflux if not taken with food.  Please note that I am 3 1/2 years off, so I may be less sensitive to everything compared to those in the earlier days/months/years.  

 

I also found this information on its possible action in the body and why it can induce sleep for some: http://www.marekdoyle.com/2017/01/28/why-am-i-flushing-from-niacin-histamine-and-two-other-causes/

"

Niacin, also known as Vitamin B3, is the name given to a family of nutrients. While some less common forms (such as NADH) exist, most supplements come in the form of nicotinic acid, inositol hexaniacinate and niacinamide.

It is nicotinic acid that we are talking about when it comes to the infamous ‘niacin flush’. Nicotinic acid has some important therapeutic effects, primarily by stimulating the COMT enzyme into action (this deactivates adrenaline and other catecholamines, making it very useful to induce sleep in those who have been particularly stressed or who have recently started a methylation protocol). However, nicotinic acid is also a vasodilator. This means that it relaxes the walls of blood vessels across the body. This induces a significant increase in blood flow to many areas, especially the skin.

For this reason, many practitioners have made use of Niacin in order to help with detoxification procedures (the idea being more blood flow to the skin = more waste products ejected through these channels). These ideas are valid; the ‘niacin flush’ is totally healthy. However, it is not very popular; it seems the idea of hot, itchy, blotchy-red skin does not hold universal appeal.

For this reason, most individuals determine their Niacin requirement by starting with 50mg and then increasing it gradually (by 50mg) until they see a flush. They then return to the previous dosage (the largest amount that did not induce a flush). Having observed many hundreds of individuals do just this, it is worth noting that COMT enzyme appears to takes priority and only ‘unspent’ nicotinic acid tends to pool in the bloodstream and cause a flush. In other words, it if takes 100mg of Niacin to switch off any excess adrenaline, then 100mg will be perfectly effective but will not cause a flush. More than this, and a flush becomes likely.

Most people find it quite easy to work out what their ideal dosage is. However, confusion arises when someone has been taking a certain dosage for a few weeks and then, out of the blue, they get a flush. The obvious question arises: why did I get a flush?

Clearly something has changed. And in the many dozens of individuals who have noticed this altered response to Niacin, there has only ever been three explanations:

1. Receptor sensitivity to Niacin. The cells that line your blood vessels contain receptors that respond to the nicotinic acid form of Niacin (but not niacinamide). It is through the signals from these receptors that the blood vessels dilate (which can ultimately lead to flushing). I have observed hundreds of individuals introduce Niacin and it seems evident that the lower the Niacin status, the more the Niacin receptors upregulate. This is a perfect recipe for a flush. However, this situation reverses itself very quickly. Those that get a pronounced flush on the first day tend to find a minor one on the second and none thereafter. Put short, if you are getting your first flush after a few days or longer, look for another cause.

 

2. A reduction in adrenaline or other catecholamines (the other two are dopamine and noradrenaline). Imagine you have been under severe stress each day and have been surviving on minimal sleep. You then indulge in a much-needed lie-in and take the entire day off to relax and recuperate. In such a situation, it’s very feasible your adrenaline levels will drop. In which case, you will not need as much Niacin as your COMT enzymes simply have less of a task to do. Taking the same amount as you did previously will now see ‘unspent’ Niacin pool in the bloodstream.

 

Equally, individuals who are taking methylfolate should ask themselves: did I forget to take it this morning? Methylfolate (and, to a lesser extent, B12) stimulate methylation. This sees methyl groups arriving in all corners of the body. This includes the brain, where they are added to amino acids to produce the other catecholamines (dopamine and noradrenaline). If this process has not occurred, once again your COMT enzymes have less work to do, will take up less Niacin and the ‘unspent’ vitamin pools in the bloodstream.

 

3. This is by far the most common cause whenever someone gets an ‘unexplained’ flush to Niacin. Histamine is a chemical the body releases to aid in the inflammatory process. Like Niacin, it is a vasodilator. It also sensitizes the affected areas and can result in itching. Burn your finger on stove, and you will get an acute release of histamine in this area (this dilates blood vessels, in order to allow more healing nutrients into the damaged area and more waste products out. It makes the area sensitive to touch, so you protect it from further damage). Catch a cold and you will also get a release of histamine, although this will me spread out across the body. The problem with histamine and niacin together is that you now have two vasodilation agents in play at the same time. This is a reliable formula for a flush, but one that is more itchy than normal (in every incidence I have every observed, it is this itchiness that determines whether the flush is pleasant/relaxing or unpleasant/agitating).

 

Whenever I receive an email from someone reporting a Niacin flush out of the blue, my first question is always if they have had other signs of a cold (sniffing/sneezing/loose stools) or any other inflammatory response (dietary allergies/hayfever/oxalate dumping). There is a remarkable consistency in how many have had these symptoms appear on the same day.

 

So what to do about it? First off, it’s worth noting that the flush symptoms are not a health concern at all. They are entirely healthy and simply result from extra blood flow reaching the skin. However,  if the third pattern is regularly in play, this is a clear sign that histamine levels are an issue.

There are ways to block this histamine-induced flush (taking either anti-histamines or aspirin at the same time as Niacin reliably block the appearance of the flush) although these methods have some drawbacks when used long-term. Therefore it makes sense to address the underlying causes of excessive histamine production. This generally relates to:

• excessive reactions to food chemicals (lectins and oxalates remain the most common, but food intolerances and microbials infections also feature highly)
• poor methylation (a complex subject in its own right)
• insufficient DAO expression

Dealing with these underlying causes will not guarantee that you will never get a flush, but it will significantly raise your threshold and, importantly, mean that any flushes will be of the pleasant variety.

The take-home message is that, while the itchy flush is no concern, it may prove an useful metric for histamine levels in the body and its presence may therefore serve as a reliable measure once you have taken steps to resolve any underlying imbalances."

[deadbrain]

Niacin in my experience needs to be taken with extreme caution in withdrawal. In some people it may work but we are all different. In some people it can trigger a panic attack or series of panic attacks. The other thing I have noticed is that in some people a reaction  to niacin might not start immediately but may start after a couple of days. Nausea, panic attacks,anxiety, bloating. gerd,restlessness can all result. So if one has to try niacin then take a very small dose like approximately 20mg (this would be tiny speck of the tablet)  and observe your self over the next days for any ill effects. Never start with the 500mg or more dose of niacin. If you happen to take some continuous doses then take a break of a week and watch for any ill effects. 

[curiousnootropics]

Careful, the flush version increased my withdrawal 10x