Booboocakes tapering off Lexapro 20mg and Wellbutrin 450xl

[Booboocakes]

Went back up.  This is so discouraging.  I couldn't believe what was happening to me after going down just 1mg.  I was on 19mg for 3 weeks, out of 20 (Lexapro).  I was dosing it as a liquid (made it myself) and I am wondering if that had something to do with it.  I just don't know if I trust shaking up that bottle that it is exact every time. It just seems so illogical (it doesn't dilute well).

 

Today I made the decision after I realized the tumor on the cat was bigger, he was going to die, I am about to start a new job, I just fired my therapist (for falling asleep), and I'm not feeling stabilized.  

 

But now I am just completely hopeless again.  I don't know how anyone ever gets off of these things.  I think maybe since I was on them for 12 years that my brain has just adapted too much.  I also feel like I have a relatively low threshold for this kind of pain, but it's not just because of me, it's because of how it affects the people around me.  Today, for example, my wife and I had a fishing trip planned.  I was so down in the dumps this morning that I could barely move.  She said that maybe we should just do something different, but I knew it would make me feel better.  But then she said she didn't want to do it if I was going to be bummed the whole time.  I mean that kind of hurt but I understand as well.

 

I think one thing that people on this forum aren't considering is that maybe for a lot of us these really are relapses, at least partially, and not 'just' withdrawal.   I mean, those of us with depression tend to have very negative, self-punitive thought processes, and these can kick in pretty quick as soon as we start to feel bad.  It's not actually the depression itself at first- it's the withdrawal, but then what happens afterwards is I start to beat myself up for having the symptoms, and then BAM depression.

 

I never had depression before I went on these meds, though, so I don't know where that fits in. Today I was thinking, after I went back up to 20, I really need to be careful before I do this again.  I even thought about trying to get ECT or something every month while I am withdrawing.  It is honestly the only way I can imagine getting off of this stuff. Thanks for listening.

 

Jon

[Narcissus]

 

 

I think one thing that people on this forum aren't considering is that maybe for a lot of us these really are relapses, at least partially, and not 'just' withdrawal.   I

 

This is a tricky subject.  When people are having recognized withdrawal symptoms (nausea, sensitivities, waves of panic, brain zaps, etc) I think it makes sense to have them focus on alleviating these before re-engaging with whatever issues they had before taking the drugs.  But of course our issues co-exist with withdrawal, and for people who managed to get off their drugs old emotions/patterns may be resurfacing along with the symptoms.  But withdrawal exaggerates and distorts so much of our experience that sometimes I think it's best to hold off getting too psychological and focus instead on healing the body.  I went to see a therapist recently to work on some personality issues, and she told me that in her experience illness magnified people's problems and that I might think about holding off psycho-analysis until I felt better.

 

At any rate, I think it's for everyone to decide for themselves what their experience means and what its sources are.  If moderators err toward withdrawal versus relapse, it's because this a withdrawal site, and withdrawal seems to go hugely unrecognized.  Plus the symptom pattern is so consistent, one often recognizes it immediately in people's descriptions.  

 

 

 

 

But now I am just completely hopeless again.  I don't know how anyone ever gets off of these things.  I think maybe since I was on them for 12 years that my brain has just adapted too much.  I also feel like I have a relatively low threshold for this kind of pain

 

I can relate to all of this very strongly.  But I know that it's not hopeless, that you haven't 'adapted too much', and that you're on your way to recovery, as we all are.  Hang in there.  Soon you'll find yourself in a better place, I'm sure.  

[Booboocakes]

Thanks narcissus.  One thing I am realizing is that the quick fix for creating a liquid form of a long-acting antidepressant is suspect.  Lexapro has a half-life of around 25 hours, so I don't know why I thought that dissolving the pills in water and using that would work, considering that the pills must have some sort of delivery agent which controls this timing.

 

I felt WAY worse immediately this time after trying the liquid for 3 weeks, during an only 1mg cut.  I have decided with my wife to wait until I have insurance to taper again, so I can get the actual liquid instead of making it myself.  I would not do this again as these pills are not meant to be dissolved ourselves.  Those of us who are so sensitive to these things should beware such quick fixes, IMO.

 

Back on the 20mg for now.

[areyouthere]

Are you able to get the brand liquid with your new insurance? That might be the route to go.

[Altostrata]

Booboocakes, the half-life of 25 hours refers to the way the drug is metabolized in your body. It has no relevance to how long it lasts as a liquid.

 

Many people have tapered with the liquid, homemade or storebought. It is an effective way of gradually lowering the dose.

 

Yes, you might prefer the manufactured liquid. You might hold at your previously stable level until you get it.

[Booboocakes]

Thanks Alto. Yeah I get the half life thing, my point is more this:

 

- I have been using an overseas brand called Cipralex, for which I'm sure there are different fillers involved, and who knows how these react with water.

 

- I am so incredibly sensitive to any change in this drug that this home made method seems suspect as far as the accuracy of the dose. Shaking it up every time may be close but I feel I really need the manufactured liquid.

 

- I've found no literature besides here stating that dissolving Lexapro in water is recommended or the same. It may be, but again considering my sensitivity and the fact that it does not dissolve all the way, it seems less than precise.

 

I will hopefully get insurance soon so I can get the liquid. It will be generic though as brand liquid Lexapro is 500 a bottle last time I tried and my insurance would not pay for it.

 

Again, thanks for all your support. I look forward to trying again! (Insanely)

[Booboocakes]

Here's a little blog I wrote recently about this and people have really been supportive. Just thought I'd share it with you all:

 

When I was 25 years old, I was prescribed an antidepressant for GAD (generalized anxiety disorder). It was great! I could finally talk to girls without shaking so much that it made them run away. The anxiety was almost completely eliminated. But for this there was, I would later learn, a very high price to pay.

 

I am now 38 years old, and I am still on antidepressants. Why so long? Well, about ten years ago, I did decide it was time to go off the antidepressant as I no longer felt the need for it. What followed was something I do not wish on anyone.

 

I never had major depression before I went off antidepressants. I didn't even know what it was. I remember hearing people's stories about feeling "so heavy they couldn't get off the couch." That sounded bad, but completely foreign to me. I had no idea what that would feel like. But I found out.

 

When I went off the drugs, all was well at first. One, two three weeks in, no problem. I did get some of the 'brain zaps,' which are disconcerting, but yeah, not a huge deal. But then about a month in, I learned what depression was. Somewhat slowly (over a period of weeks), things started to get very, very dark. It was as if all of the 'life' had been sucked out of life. I was wearing the 'lead blanket' I had heard about, everywhere I went. Suddenly I was that little Zoloft cartoon with the cloud over it. No, it was much worse. Everything was terrifying- life itself, was terrifying. Guilt was everywhere. I had done something very, very wrong. In a word, crippling. It's hard to convey what this feeling is like. You can only really understand it unless you go through it. It is a completely different reality, and the scariest part about it is how utterly convincing it is. The world looks like a very horrible place.

 

"This must be temporary," I thought. So I waited. And waited. Weeks later, and it progressed further, further down, to where I was becoming barely functional. Finally, I went to see a psychiatrist. "You're depressed," they told me. "You need to go back on the medication."

 

"OK," I thought. "But that's strange. I've never been depressed before!" But like a good patient, I went back on the meds. A few days and WHEW! all better. They must have been right! Now I have depression. Hmmm...

 

Over the next 10 years this pattern was repeated almost 10 times. Life is going great-don't feel the need for the drugs. I am not a depressive person. I work hard. I love my life. Time to taper down.

 

But then, BAM! NOTHING ever hit like depression when I tried to get off of antidepressants. I recently (2 weeks ago) tried again, for about the 10th time, to taper down. Three days ago, in the midst of a depression of medieval proportions, I ran back to the meds and went all the way back up. "But things are so good in my life!" I thought. "Nope," said the Lexapro. "You are still depressed. You need me FOREVER." Talk about the ultimate product, eh?

 

Check the literature (here are a couple: http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/astounding-increase-in-antidepressant-use-by-americans-201110203624 and http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/12/a-glut-of-antidepressants/), and it is mind-altering how many people are experiencing this same phenomenon, and nobody in the pharmaceutical industry is recognizing or addressing it. Doctors are completely in the dark because the research is not being done. All of these people are being told "Whelp, looks like you have depression now, time to go back on." So many of these stories, when I read them, are eerily the same as mine. People were told to take these for minor anxiety or other related issues. And then they miraculously somehow develop major depression later, and are told they need to stay on the drugs.

 

Adding to the awesomeness, the majority of people taking these drugs are now veritable guinea pigs for the pharmaceutical industry (although the results will doubtfully be printed, I am sure). Why? There are very few studies that have been done on the long-term effects of these drugs. How many studies have been done on the effects of SSRIs past 10 years of use? You got it: zero. How many people are prescribed SSRIs beyond ten years? Millions. Millions and millions and millions. That means we have no idea what these significantly brain-altering drugs are doing to a large section of the population (today 1 in 4 in America is being diagnosed with some form of mental illness. 11% of Americans now take an antidepressant, and for women over 40 it's ONE IN FOUR).

 

To say this is maddening would not even begin. I am now faced constantly with what feels like the most degrading, humiliating reality of my life: I may have to take a drug (a very expensive one at that) for the rest of my life, because, although I show few of the symptoms related to the drugs advertised efficacy, the drug creates so much withdrawal in my brain that it is virtually impossible to get off of.

 

I have tried so many different things. I have switched drugs, gone down slowly, gone down more slowly, gone down incredibly slowly, switched to the liquid version, added supplements, etc. But it is always the same. 3 weeks in, I am finally feeling the relief. The side effects are going away, and then the gates of hell open up to me, with a bright neon "Walgreens" sign flashing right next to it. With a weak, trembling hand, I always reach back for the Rx, and then feel deflated, hopeless and discouraged for it.

 

I am going to continue trying. But in the meantime I guess the least that I can do is try to warn other people of the danger of SSRIs. These are not candy. These are dangerous, dangerous drugs that are WAY harder to get off of any other drug I have been on. I also have many years of sobriety from drugs and alcohol. Think that's hard? That's nothing. That was nothing compared to this.

 

The hardest part perhaps is the effect that this has on those around me. It is nearly impossible to explain to people why I have to cancel things, why I can't talk, why I can't go outside, when this happens to me. Even my wife, with all of her understanding, cannot understand this. I have thought that maybe the only way I will ever be able to get off of these drugs is if I go away, to another country maybe, for a few years, and am accountable to no one/nothing. Because that is the only way I can see myself getting through it. Otherwise it is too hard, not just for me but for everyone else. You would be surprised how hard depression is for other people. That compounds it for the person experiencing it: add guilt and helplessness to the mix= turbo, extra depression.

[andy]

Thank you for posting this BB ,it's heart breaking to hear your story ..I hope finally one day you will get your redemption

Take care and never give up hope

[Booboocakes]

Thanks.   I am considering switching to Prozac before tapering again.  Half life of lexapro is 27-32 hours, of Prozac is 2 to 4 days.  I know Lexapro is already a 'longer' acting one, but that is still an enormous difference.  I have tried switching to Prozac in the past and it worked well for me.  I will be trying the liquid.

 

Wish me luck!

[Altostrata]

Good luck, Booboocakes. Please keep in touch and let us know how you're doing.

[Booboocakes]

I have not started tapering again yet, but I have a question.  Has anyone on this forum seen success in switching from Lexapro to Prozac first before tapering?  I have read the sections here on the buffering with Prozac.  I know it's a risk, but I know that I have taken Prozac before and it was fine.  I also know that Lexapro does has a 'long' half-life, so that reduces the reasoning for this, but Prozac is still significantly longer.  Wondering if at a very slow reduction, if this half life would make much of a difference in the WD symptoms?  

 

Thanks!