DrugSlave: tapering Effexor

[DrugSlave]

Thanks for your kind email Lexy. It sounds like you are not full-time at school. That is good. It must be difficult to concentrate though. Well, at least you can study on your own schedule.

 

When you say: "I felt  I had to do something"...I know what you mean. I updosed from 27mg to 37.5 because I felt I had to do something.

 

I feel more alive when I go to work. Even though I have to drag myself there, it still feels good....

 

Good luck in school and I hope you feel better soon!

[bubble]

Hi Bubble, thanks for the email. I thought Europe would be more progressive on work disability issues. I guess it depends on the country. Yes, we are lucky in Canada although our current government is slowly chipping away at worker's rights among other things. I can't believe they have a code for "acute stress reaction". Here, the doctor is not allowed to tell work what the health issue it. Just what the work restrictions are. It's a shame you have to suffer through forcing yourself to go to work like that. I'm taking at least 50% of time off as sick leave without pay. I got turned down for disability. Where I work, short-term disability covers the first 2 years of being off. It is very difficult to get but you can re-apply over and over until they give in sometimes. To get disability beyond 2 years, you have to be in a vegetative state with tubes sticking out of your nose. Even blind people or paraplegics get turned down.

 

Bubble said: "Sorry to contradict you but I don't think you will feel like this for long time still, let alone forever ;)". - I'm guessing you are getting that from my signature. I meant that I probably will be on 37.5mg forever. I do believe I will get better. I just don't plan to taper any further at this point. It's too difficult and debilitating. Yes you are right, it's best not to worry about the future.

 

I do plan to work on healing myself by using those tips and changing my thought patterns. The power of the mind should not be underestimated! (that is how I cured my chronic pain....using TMS therapy)

 

Best of luck with work Bubble!

 

thanks a lot for your detailed reply. I have to admit that I'm professionally challenged regarding disability entitlements in various countries. And yes, we are used to seeing North America as rather brutal but obviously it's not I don't know if I mentioned that stigma is an awful thing here: anyone who is taking any kind of psych meds or receiving a therapy is seen as a deranged and most likely homicidal monster Maybe I'm too sensitive about the issue but I'm afraid I'm not and definitely don't feel like testing my assumptions. 

 

I'm happy you feel confident in the power of the mind. I got pretty encouraged about the concept of neuroplasticity. I also hope you are feeling at least a bit better. Making a decision always brings a relief. 

 

I look forward to your updates

[DrugSlave]

I am feeling a bit better mood wise, the withdrawal symptoms are the same. I think I'm in a better head space. I let out a lot of emotion a week or so ago and I think that helped. I don't feel as negative. I saw my doctor a few days ago and he agrees with the reduced work schedule plan. I just have to wait for his report. I think just the idea of the reduced schedule has lifted some of the pressure off me. I won't have the pressure to work full-time hours and I won't feel the guilt for missing so much time. Plus, I'm working on being in a better frame of mind. I'm trying to accept my condition and stop fighting it. I'm going to focus on the mind and self-healing and forget about magic supplements and tests and going to see doctors and worrying about other diagnoses, etc. 

 

That's a shame about the stigma you speak of regarding psych meds or therapy. It is not that bad here, though most people don't speak about it openly. It's a shame that stigma exists at all. Depression, anxiety, etc is part of the human condition. We are complicated beings with our emotions, consciousness, unconscious, etc.

 

During the weekend, my wife and I spent much of it in emergency. My wife was not feeling well. We were worried it was something serious but after some tests it turned out to be something much less serious, thankfully. It was exhausting spending all those hours in waiting rooms....her in pain....me in withdrawal, both of us worried. For some reason I joked around a lot. We had some great laughs. I don't think I would have done that a few weeks ago but it really relieved some of the stress. It helped us both I think. Humor is a good thing.

 

I've been reading a little bit on self-healing using the mind...finding peace, mindfulness, all that stuff. I'm going to check out more of the posts on this website for these subjects. 

 

peace

[Petunia]

Thank you for the update DS.  I'm glad to hear that your wife is going to be ok.  Its great to read that you are starting to feel better and are learning how to handle withdrawal symptoms, do stay in touch.

 

Petu.

[DrugSlave]

Thanks Petu.

 

Actually, for the majority of time during the protracted withdrawal my mood has been relatively not too bad. I just hit a bad stretch for a month or so. The situational depression seems to come and go. I'm still probably mildly depressed but much better than before. It is a relief.

 

Everyone seems to say this: On relatively good days, you feel like all the coming days will be the same. On bad days, you feel like every day will be bad. I find this as well. On relatively good days, I feel like I can make it to work every day. On bad days, I don't know how I managed to drag myself to work in the past. I can't even imagine it.

 

Last year I felt the same as I do now but I did a little more. I think I was still trying to live my previous life and was pushing myself more. Now it seems, I've kind of given up on trying to live like I did before and I'm doing less. I went to a concert recently of one of my favorite bands. I LOVE going to concerts. Half of me enjoyed it, the other half didn't. I kind of had fun, I kind of wanted to get the heck out of there. Sometimes I think I want to give up on all outings and social events. Other times I think maybe I should push myself.

[DrugSlave]

Hey everybody,

 

I'm trying something new for healing. I bought the book below. It teaches you how to improve your health with your thoughts using neuroplasticity and epigenetics. I read the book and I've just started the meditations. During the meditations, you change the way you think and create a "new you". I tried meditating a few times before and found it quite difficult. I bought the accompanying mp3's and they help quite a bit.

 

I actually had "an experience" the first time I tried the meditation. About half an hour in, the voice on the MP3 asks "what do you want to change?". I felt a surge of energy and excitement. I could sense 2 cylinders of energy rising right in front of me. I felt excited and happy and started breathing heavily. It was trippy! Who needs drugs?!?!?! lol

 

I'll report back on my progress....

 

http://www.hayhouse.com/you-are-the-placebo

[DrugSlave]

The meditation is difficult. I was able to keep up to almost once a day for an hour, for the first month. Then I started wearing out. I'm already exhausted all the time. Meditation takes effort and focus. I do find it relaxing though. I have found that I'm starting to shut out the voice on the recording. I'm not listening to him anymore. I thought the meditations would get easier but I haven't found that for me. It's really difficult to concentrate. Plus, I feel despondent at times....it's hard to feel optimistic when you have NO signs of improvement. Seriously none. I'm 100% positive that I have improved 0%.

 

How could this be possible? It can't be permanent. I NEVER miss a dose. I take the exact same amount every day at the exact same time. I feel exactly the same way I did 15 months ago. Exactly.

 

I have a frozen shoulder. That has improved about 10% over the last 6 months. That's the only sign of hope I've seen in my health. My mother law just got diagnosed with cancer. My wife is taking care of her and is very upset. Man, life is not easy.

 

Anyway, I'm getting more exercise than in the winter. Biking and mowing the lawn. I think it helps a little. I find that this summer and last summer I feel slightly better than in the winter.

 

I'll try to get back into the meditations and regain a fighting spirit....

 

I hope others out there are doing ok...

 

peace

[DrugSlave]

My family doctor tried to set up an appointment with an "expert" on withdrawal. I actually found the guy online. He is a professor/doctor who did some studies on withdrawal from SSRI's. My doctor wrote to him, explained my situation. The doctor replied "tell him to take Prozac for a week with the Effexor and then stop both". That really upset me. I figured I was going to talk to an expert. I've been in withdrawal for a year and a half on close to the same dosage and he thinks I can get off it in a week. I was thinking more like 5 years if I was going to try to get off it completely. Maybe switch to Prozac and then stay on Prozac until I stablize again, and then slowly wean myself off Prozac.

 

That really upset me. I find I'm super sensitive these days. I'm getting upset with people. Including myself at times. I'm trying to stop doing that. Trying to relax and stay positive but it's difficult.

 

I'm forcing myself to go to an all day concert in a few weeks. Need to have some fun. The old me would LOVE it. The new me will struggle but I should have a little fun in there somewhere....

[Petunia]

Hi DS,

Thank you for the update, I'm sorry that there hasn't been any improvement yet, although it sounds like you are doing better now than you were in early 2013.   It seems like meditation was helpful, or at least interesting for a while.  Perhaps you could try another kind of meditation, there are lots of different kinds, it sounds like you have been doing guided meditations.  Moving meditations can be good for people who have difficulties focusing.  Tai chi and Qi gong are two forms, there are probably more.

 

I'm sorry about your disappointment with the 'expert', I got my hopes up as I was reading your post, hoping that we had found another doctor who could help our cause.

 

I hope you enjoy the concert, let us know.

 

Petu.

[DrugSlave]

Thanks Petu. I hope you are doing well. I guess Prozac wasn't good for you....yikes.

 

When I say I haven't improved, I'm referring to the protracted withdrawal (I guess I should be more specific). I experienced acute withdrawal in Jan-Mar 2013 and May-July 2013. The period in between those dates and every since maybe August 2013 I have felt the same with no change. Maybe a slight improvement in the summers because of more exercise and getting outside more.

 

I was hoping to improve using the "You are the Placebo" approach. When someone takes a sugar pill thinking their health will improve, it is not the pill that helps them, it is their mind. According to the book, you can focus on healing during meditation to mimic the placebo effect. There is scientific evidence to back up the theory. I believe it is possible, but difficult to achieve this.

 

I did enjoy the meditation at times. I did feel relaxed and for moments, a temporary sense of euphoria. I am thinking of trying different meditations though I guess, I would no longer be following the plan in the book to heal. Maybe I could incorporate some of the techniques in the book with a different meditation method. I need to get in a better head space though. I'm in a funk right now.

 

I briefly tried tai chi years ago. I never heard of Qi gong. I will do some research. Maybe I'll try listening to Monks chanting. I actually listened to that type of music a few months back. I like it. I find it can be both menacing, yet relaxing....as strange as that sounds.

 

Hopefully I'll enjoy the concert. I've been afflicted with a horrible taste in music....heavy metal  . Man, I love it. I know it is the opposite of calming for the central nervous system but I find it cathartic. Sometimes I wonder what it does to the unconscious mind and CNS.....but hey, it gives me joy. 

 

best wishes to you Petu and everyone else out there....

[electron]

Hi DS,

 

I've read through your thread and I feel like I'm in a fairly similar situation to you. I'm withdrawing from prozac and went too quickly. I then reinstated the dose and became very destabilised with symptoms that did not go away. I feel as if I can neither increase nor decrease the dose as I still have symptoms from my last reduction which don't seem to be subsiding. My thoughts regarding this are that whenever I do a reinstatement it destabilises my nervous system and I then get symptoms from taking the medication aswell as withdrawals. When you said you had no improvement after such a long time, it occurred to me that maybe you are having symptoms from simply taking the medication.

 

All the best,

electron

[DrugSlave]

Thanks Electron. Interesting theory. It seems increasing or decreasing the dosage can increase symptoms. Also, stopping completely increases symptoms. Stopping the medication for months and then reinstating can increase symptoms (or decrease them). Maybe your right, simply taking the same dosage every day might cause symptoms. But I think decreasing or stopping completely or making a significant increase would all be worse.

 

I will post more comments on your intro thread.

 

take care

[DrugSlave]

No change in symptoms. None. I no longer believe I am in protracted withdrawal. I think it has morphed into something else. I think I have CFS (Chronic Fatigue Symptom). My major symptom is chronic fatigue. I also have alcohol intolerance which is one of the symptoms of CFS. Other symptoms include "not feeling sociable" which could be explained by the fatigue and the fluctuating circumstantial depression that I have. Also, I feel general malaise and occasional mild headaches. All could be explained by CFS.

 

I believe I had 2 bouts of acute withdrawal which took 6 to 10 weeks to subside. From the time the withdrawal got serious about 2 years ago until now, I've had unwavering fatigue. When others talk about the long term recovery from withdrawal, they describe windows and waves with slow improvement over time. For 2 years now my fatigue has been the same. I am NOT improving.

 

My symptoms are different than most long-term withdrawal sufferers. The symptoms are also a little different than most CFS cases. From what I have read, I would be considered a CFS sufferer by some definitions but not by others. I sleep a lot....most CFS'ers have trouble sleeping. I don't have all over body aches and pains and I don't have tender lymph nodes. I have had all the tests done by my family doctor for liver problems, kidney, thyroid, etc.

 

I had chronic pain for over a decade in my back and arms. I cured my back pain using TMS theory (stress related pain and illness). I took Effexor for my arm pain. While working with a therapist I reduced Effexor without the arm pain flaring up (I was unable to do this before). According to TMS theory, when recovering from an illness, symptom substitution can occur ie. cure your knee pain and get neck pain instead. I think while I was curing my arm pain that the withdrawal started kicking in, fatigue set in, and now my TMS chronic pain/withdrawal has morphed into Chronic fatigue or some form of stress related fatigue. I have tried using the same TMS techniques to cure the CFS but have been unsuccessful so far. I think CFS treatment techniques might be the missing piece to this complicated puzzle.

 

Any comments are welcomed.

 

Best wishes to all !

[DrugSlave]

Hey Folks, today is my one year anniversary since I updosed to 37.5 mg. I've been taking one pill for a year now. Absolutely no change. I'm reading books trying to figure out how to cure myself. Sitting around and waiting is obviously doing nothing.

 

Updosing didn't make any difference. Holding is making no difference. The fatigue must be hard wired into my system now. I have to figure out a way to change this.

 

Comments would be appreciated.

 

Sending out positive vibes to everyone! peace

[Prestorb]

Hi Drugslave, just wondering if you ever found anything to help? I also suffer primarily from fatigue, and am looking for relief!

[DrugSlave]

Prestorb,

 

I've been working with a Naturopath since March, no improvement yet. I also started Mickel Therapy 3 weeks ago. I'll report back on how I do.

 

Best of health to you!

[DrugSlave]

Two years today on 37.5 mg of my favorite poison. Feel exactly the same.

[nz11]

Hi DS just heartbreaking to read of no improvements in 2 yrs.

 

I was on another site for 4 years before joining this one i do recall a person once who waited a awhile and found little improvement claimed they found an improvement when they made the next drop. I cant recall any names.

Brassmonkey may recall this occurrence and could comment further.

Its not in line with the protocol of this site but it could be worth thinking about. Maybe its time to try a small cut maybe 2.5 % to 36.5 mg.

No matter how slow you go it is no guarantee of symptom free...you are going to have to absorb some wdl symptoms.

If the only major symptom is chronic fatigue then id consider a small cut. These drugs cause fatigue. After 7 yrs on paxil i was sleeping a lot and felt i could sleep 24/7 and still feel tired.

What do you think.

Sorry you are in this difficult place.

[DrugSlave]

Three years today since I've been at 37.5mg of Effexor. Zero improvement for 3 and a half years. Permanent symptoms. I average 14.5 hours a day in bed, 9.5 hrs a day out of bed...work part-time...rarely see my friends...

 

nz11, thanks for the reply 364 days ago...I'm too scared to decrease the dosage further....what if it gets worse? the symptoms are bad enough...though sometimes I'm tempted to try it....sounds like you have had a rough go....my heart goes out to you....

 

I have a bad feeling I will be posting on March 6, 2018 with the same message....nothing I have tried has helped...

 

if a cure is out there for withdrawal and fatigue...please let me know!

 

best wishes to everyone

[DrugSlave]

I've changed my mind. My symptoms have not improved at all in 4 years. I'm going to see the doctor on Tuesday to tell him that I want to start tapering again.

 

Old way of thinking: SA advises people to hold until their symptoms improve. My symptoms were not improving so I held. Since everyone else seems to improve slowly and I was not improving, I thought maybe the withdrawal had morphed into Chronic Fatigue Syndrome or something. I tried a whole bunch of things to get better. Nothing worked. Also, I worried/worry that since the hardest part of withdrawing is at the end, what if it gets worse and the symptoms are permanently worse?

 

New way of thinking: Since no treatments are working, maybe the root cause is still Effexor. I increased from 27mg to 37.5mg and felt no improvement. I would hate to increase any further. Effexor is what caused my symptoms. What if I increased and it did not help? Perhaps if I decrease slowly, it won't be too bad and once I get off it, I will start to feel better eventually.

 

I talked to a Compounding Pharmacy. I am very luck because my health insurance through work will cover the cost of compounding.

 

In early January 2013 I was in the midst of horrible acute withdrawal. After 6 to 10 weeks, about half the symptoms subsided, the rest stayed permanently. I waited four months. I started the 10% method but the other acute withdrawal symptoms returned. I would think that my CNS is much more stable this time around. I have been on the smallest capsule of 37.5mg for 3 and a half years.

 

I'm thinking of asking the doctor to start me at either a 5% or even a 2.5% taper and then hold for a month. If it goes well, try a 3 week hold. If that works then a 2 week hold. I am hoping to get to maybe a 5% taper with holds for 2 weeks if the symptoms are bearable. I will adjust as I see how my system responds. I will slow down towards the end. I expect it to take maybe 4 years, though who knows, if I try a 2.5% drop and it does not go well, I will stop the taper.

 

The drug manufacturer for the Effexor (name brand only) I currently use is Pfizer. I have to switch from my regular pharmacy to a compounding pharmacy. I hope they use Pfizer. Does that matter for compounding if I switch to Effexor made by a different manufacturer?

 

Any advice would be appreciated. Especially regarding the tapering amounts/timeframes.

 

I wish all of you well.

 

thanks!

 

[ChessieCat]

Hi DrugSlave,

 

I'm pleased that you have returned to discuss your situation.

 

BrassMonkey got to 0 earlier this year.  He developed a tapering method which has become known as the Brass Monkey Slide.  It's a gentler version of tapering than the 10% with 4 week hold which is recommended by SA.  It might be worth checking it out.  

[DrugSlave]

Thanks ChessieCat, the BrassMonkey slide does look interesting. It makes some sense for sure. I can see how that could potentially work. I'll do more reading. Have many people tried this?

 

How precise should I be with the compounding pharmacy and dosing? I see on that online dosage calculator going to 3 decimal points. Should I be asking for amounts like a 0.438mg drop?

 

thanks

[ChessieCat]

It will make it easier if you round the number.  Always round it up.

 

I have tailored my own taper based on SA's 10% x 4 weeks.  I have my Pristiq compounded into 40mg, 30mg, 20mg, 10mg and 5mg, 2mg, 1mg so I can create the doses I want.  Since getting below 20mg I am doing 1mg decrease every 3 weeks but will do 4 week holds once I get closer to 10mg, hopefully not until I reach about 12mg or 11mg (it will depend on how things go).  Once I get below 10mg I plan to do the same thing but decreasing by 0.5mg each time so I will then need 0.5mg capsules made up.

[ChessieCat]

This topic discusses the possible reason why the 10% every 4 weeks taper works (for many members - there are some that need to go slower):  Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves

 

And this is what a perfect SA taper would look like:

 

[DrugSlave]

Thanks for the info ChessieCat. Always round up - makes sense for sure. Your tapering plan sounds good. I will probably do something similar. That dose-occupancy study is interesting. It seems to back up what everyone is saying about a slow taper and slowing down at the end.

 

I talked to the pharmacist over the phone. She did mention the 10% method and slowing down at the end...so, she knows a bit...but, then I told her I had terrible withdrawal problems and have been sick for 5 years. I said the withdrawal will take a few years...she said, oh no, we had someone taper last year from Effexor...I'll see how many weeks it should take...I said: "not weeks, years". Anyway...

 

For the BrassMonkey Slide, the 3 week hold makes sense to me because as I've read and personally experienced, it seems some symptoms take about 3 weeks before they appear.

 

Has anyone actually heard of someone who has permanent symptoms from withdrawal besides me? A few years back, a couple people said they think that maybe they heard of someone like that, but no definite answer.

 

Right now, I'm thinking since I had trouble with dropping 10% before, maybe I should start with a 2.5% drop, hold 4 weeks, then 2.5% drop and hold 3 weeks, then 2.5% drop and hold two weeks and then 2.5% drop and hold one week and continue 2.5% drops/one week holds if it works well...

 

cheers

 

[bubble]

Hello DrugSlave,

 

I was just reading through your thread and realized we 'met' back in 2014!  I'm happy to see you again (although not happy that you say there have been no improvements, of course

 

I was wondering: what are all those symptoms you are talking about? I don't remember anything specific except the fatigue and general feeling of having difficulty functioning.

 

I must say that after all these years I'm still a big proponent of holding but in your case I would also try with tapering. I follow a lot of people here and I can't remember when I last saw anyone holding for 3 years. wow!

 

Have you heard about the concept of withdrawal normal? It basically means that the symptoms are stable and not that there are no symptoms. And more importantly, that we can cope with them to the extent that we can handle even a temporary uptick in symptoms which is to be expected following a cut.

I'm glad Chessie mentioned Brassmonkey. In addition to Brassmonkey's slide he actually coined this term withdrawal normal. His tapering history might also be very relevant to you because he didn't feel better with holds but h started reducing anyone and then as he got lower, his baseline improved.  It has been mentioned a few times on your thread that the drug might be causing at least some of your symptoms and that sounds like a very probable theory. So it is expected that as you slowly go down you should feel better overall (get an improved baseline).  

 

2 hours ago, DrugSlave said:

Right now, I'm thinking since I had trouble with dropping 10% before, maybe I should start with a 2.5% drop, hold 4 weeks, then 2.5% drop and hold 3 weeks, then 2.5% drop and hold two weeks and then 2.5% drop and hold one week and continue 2.5% drops/one week holds if it works well...

 

Regarding your tapering plan, I would very carefully read Rhi's post on start small listen to your body. I like the beginning of your plan: drop 2.5 %, hold 4 weeks and after that reassess. Don't make the plan for that net step now. You will decide when you see how your brain reacts.

 

If the symptoms are tolerable I would rather cut more than reduce hold periods especially below 2 weeks. This is because it takes a certain time for the withdrawal symptoms to manifest so if we cut too often we can quickly lose control over our taper. Holds between cuts are also periods were healing, adjusting and rewiring happens so they are so very important. 

 

Even if you opt for cutting frequently, make sure that you occasionally throw in a longer month or even two of holding, even if everything is going well, just to make sure your brain has really caught up so that there are no any nasty surprises further down the road.

 

I read about your experience with meditation. Starting with an hour of it sounded definitely a way too much so I'm not surprised it was hard for you. Meditating is like exercising. We have to start gradually and build up our practice. There is one sentence you wrote which summed up my problem with Louise Hay: terror of positivity. I prefer accepting hardship more than forcing myself to put a positive spin on things which are definitely not positive. 

 

People might start thinking that I have a deal with calm.com but it is just that I have finally found the kind of meditation (mindfulness) practice that works for me. Some parts of it are free so everyone can try them out.

 

I'm really happy to see you again and excited about you starting your taper!

 

(It was particularly interesting to see our discussion on working. 3 years after that I'm finally going to simplify my work situation. Hopefully. I'm not doing too well at the moment but I did come down significantly over those 3 years and I can say my baseline is better... - in case you were wondering

[ChessieCat]

One thing that I have found very helpful is understanding what is happening.  Claire Weekes talks about second fear, or fear of the fear.  It is very easy to become anxious and add fear to what we are experiencing which can then lead to panic.

 

Tapering slowly doesn't mean you will not experience withdrawal symptoms.  The idea of tapering slowly is to minimise them.  It helps to know that the withdrawal symptoms are actually because our brain is making the necessary changes.  We need to accept that there will be times of discomfort during the tapering process and learn to sit with that discomfort.  It's important not to panic and take more of the drug.

 

Brain Remodelling

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

Withdrawal Normal Description

 

Stabilising After a Reduction - What Does That Mean?

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Keep Notes on Paper

 

Rate Symptoms Daily to Check Patterns and Progress

 

Acceptance

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

[DrugSlave]

Wow, thank-you for all the advice you wonderful people.

 

It is good to hear from you Bubble. I do remember some of our conversations. I'm in the midst of re-reading my whole thread. I'm sorry you are not feeling that well at the moment but I am glad your baseline is better.. I'm glad you were able to improve your work situation. It's terrible that you had to work full-time even though you were not healthy enough to do so.

 

It is difficult to describe my symptoms. I will try. I feel tired all the time. I am middle-aged. I average 14.5 hours a day in bed, I'm probably asleep 10 hours a day, the other 4.5 hours per day just closing my eyes and laying there. I average 9.5 hours out of bed. Much of it on the couch with barely enough energy to watch TV. It feels similar to having the flu, being jet-lagged or hung-over. Permanently. You know when you have the flu and you feel it in your whole body, similar to that. I feel unsocial. I used be more social than the average person. I socialized with friends 3 to 4 times a week. Now, about once every month or two. I used to regularly hang out with loud, silly friends who like to drink beer and laugh constantly. That atmosphere now makes me want to hide under the bed. I still can only work part-time. I can no longer drink alcohol. It doesn't taste right and is simply not enjoyable. It turns me off. I get headaches occasionally and have some days where I feel extra unwell. I am very warm all the time, sweating when people beside me say the temperature is fine. I am depressed over all this. I think it is circumstantial depression, not clinical depression. I am able to exercise, I do not have exercise intolerance.

 

Another reason I held so long is that I had serious chronic pain years ago that set in and didn't leave for years. I have mostly recovered from that. So, I was/am worried that if I am not improving, what if I taper lower, get stronger symptoms and don't recover similar to my chronic pain experience and my experience with the withdrawal. Of course, I will do it much slower this time.

 

3 hours ago, bubble said:

It has been mentioned a few times on your thread that the drug might be causing at least some of your symptoms and that sounds like a very probable theory. So it is expected that as you slowly go down you should feel better overall (get an improved baseline).  

 

Boy, I hope you are right!

 

I will read Rhi's post. I will think about the two week holds and make more comments afterwards. I'll talk about the meditation in a later post too.

 

Thanks for the insights ChessieCat. That is helpful.

 

Well, I have to pace myself...I'll write more soon...

 

peace to all

 

[ChessieCat]

DS are you still taking 37.5mg Effexor?

[DrugSlave]

Yes, I am still taking 37.5mg of Effexor. I updated my signature. I'll post more later...

[Juan]

Hello DrugSlave,

I'm new here S/A, trying to learn and not be afraid of what's coming for me during and after Effexor and Remeron.

Hope you're well.

J.

[DrugSlave]

Juan, I'm sorry to hear they put you on Effexor. I'm not sure how sensitive your system is to withdrawing but watch out for it creeping up on you. I was ok from 150mg to 75mg, then it hit me. Then I tapered faster because I figured I was half way there and it wouldn't get much worse, I could just tough it out. I should have gone slower not faster. Huge mistake. Best of luck to you.

 

Bubble, I read about your experience with the dentist and your reaction to the anesthetic. What a shame, poor you. Unfortunately, we are very sensitive to other drugs and supplements. I've had reactions to several things - magnesium and high cocoa chocolate of all things. The chocolate helps some ppl with Chronic Fatigue. I couldn't tolerate it. I think there might have been other things I reacted to as well....luckily just temporary though. I hope you enjoy your upcoming sabbatical.

 

I read Rhi's post. She wrote similar comments on this thread a few years back. I think I'll start with a 2.5% cut and wait for a month and then reassess. Going by feel seems the way to go. Great advice. I'm not in a rush. I'm pretty sure I would feel exactly the same as now in 5 years time if I don't do anything. So, tapering for 5 years doesn't faze me as much....

 

I have done yoga and meditation in the past year. I did the yoga for a few months but couldn't keep it up. I read Sam Harris' book on spirituality and meditation. I did the meditation and I find it does a person good. The yoga is good too. I'm good in the short term for sticking to things like yoga or physio or stuff like that. I even took freezing cold showers every day for two months while trying the Wim Hof Method, so I have some stick-to-it-tiveness. However, with the meditation I felt like my mind was just rejecting it after some time. I was into it for a while but then I slowly started doing shorter and shorter sessions. My brain refused to focus. I got worse with time, not better, much worse. Frustrating. I will try it again. Yoga too.

 

I'm going to see the doctor tomorrow, wish me luck :). So, I might be able to start the taper on Thursday, however Daylight Savings is Sunday. I usually adjust 20 minutes per day to make the switch. Not sure what to do if I'm just starting to taper.

 

 

 

[DrugSlave]

Just got back from the doctor and pharmacist. Everything went well. My family doc is supportive and basically said to leave it to me and the pharmacist to work out the taper reductions and time frames. The pharmacist I talked to today in person seemed more knowledgeable than the one I spoke to over the phone. He has dealt with extreme cases like myself and all the unlucky people on this site before. My family doctor called my situation "extremely rare". The first pharmacist said "We had one Effexor taper last year". The pharmacist today said they've had some other slow tapers including as slow as 2.5%. Whew (I thought).

 

The pharmacist was totally chill which was great, because I was all nervous for some reason. I guess I was expecting resistance.

 

So, in the next day or two when the meds are ready I think I will start. We agreed on a 2.5% taper, hold 4 weeks and reassess. I rounded up and asked for 36.6mg. He agreed. Cool. I'm still not sure what I'm going to do with the Daylight Savings change this Sunday.

 

So the compounding pharmacy simply takes out the beads, weighs them and puts them back in the capsule. I didn't know that. I was expecting something more extravagant. I'm glad I don't have to worry about it.

 

Anyway, on the way home I did my good deed for the day...I found an ID and key...it belonged to a doctor who works at a Children's Hospital. I picked it up off the sidewalk, called them and then delivered the ID to the hospital. Not too many people on the planet more important than a children's doctor, so I didn't mind at all.

 

cheers

 

 

[bubble]

This is all great news! I like your plan and reasoning, everyone is in board so can only wish you smooth sailing.

 

And so sweet about the ID and the key - another good omen

[ChessieCat]

25 minutes ago, DrugSlave said:

Not too many people on the planet more important than a children's doctor

 

It depends on whether they are prescribing psychiatric drugs like candy

 

 

It's really great that you've built a relationship with both the doctor and the pharmacist.  I suggest that you make sure that there is documentation somewhere so that if things change/people leave then you won't have problems.  This has happened to other members which is why I have mentioned it.  Also don't wait until the last minute to get the scripts written and filled.  It's amazing how quickly the time can go by, sometimes we forget and also people can go on leave.

 

Let us know how you go with you reduction.

[baroquep]

Hi DrugSlave, I'm really happy to hear that you are working with a compounding pharmacy and your doctor so at least that part of the taper is worry-free.  I'm doing this as well and lucky enough to be working with a fairly knowledgeable pharmacist who deals directly with my doctor and it really does make things a lot easier.  I usually call the pharmacist about a week before my next taper is due to let her know how much I am going to reduce so that she can get my doctor's approval and to give her enough time to do all the behind the scene things so that I'm never without a prescription.  ChessieCat is right, because compounding pharmacies are so few and far between and people do go on vacation, it's best to make sure that you give them a a fair bit of lead time to get everything done before the month is up ... as it does go a lot faster than you might think