$#*! my doctor says

[Altostrata]

Heard any good ones recently?

[compsports]

Heard any good ones recently?

 

A nurse practitioner I saw last year said that Wellutrin XL was harmless. She claimed it didn't cause my Tinnitus when even my former psychiatrist agrees it did.

 

Compsports

[Punarbhava]

LOL!!

 

Love the title and sub-title of this forum.

[alexjuice]

I had to see a neurologist after a disturbing event regarding my vision. During the course of my examination, he became alarmed that his tuning fork indicated greatly finer sensitivity in my elbows and knees than in my hands and feet. He was quite alarmed b/c this indicates potential nerve damage.

 

I told him I was C/T'd from klonopin in 2008 and have had diminished feeling/tingling in my left-side extremities ever since.

 

"That is simply NOT a possible explanation," he said.

 

He scheduled me for labs and a return wherein I'd be poked with current-bearing needles. These needles, inserted into my hands, arms, legs and feet, would measure the extent of the neurological damage he expected to find to account for my lack of sensitivity.

 

To his surprise, my nerves reacted with fully appropriate responses. My labs were normal.

 

"Your results are normal," he said. Pause. "This is shockingly unexpected"

 

He thought more tests necessary to uncover a hidden neuropathy. I said I wanted to take a wait-and-see approach.

 

It's been 3 and a half years and I don't feel so well as I once did in my fingers and toes. It doesn't get worse. I continue to get by okay. If you check a benzo withdrawal forum, you'll find thousands just like me.

 

This doc was actually, by peer-comparison, really good. For that reason I hate to throw him under the bus. Nevertheless, he is a neurologist for whom the notion of protracted w/d in response to abrupt d/c of benzodiazepines after thousands of days of use is entirely alien and deserving of offhand rejection.

 

Alex I

[stan]

maybe 10 days after my 11 months taper i was really in hell and bad and i asked my GP if i can take now some St. John's wort in pill to help

 

she tell me < I prefer not, to make you do not become addicted to St. John's wort >

 

as i was informed on internet, i knew she take me for a CXXXX and was lying

i cannot trust them anymore, gp were no help for me, even dangerous to not lose a client

[Healing]

Alex -- Ooooh, what an upsetting story. Such closed-mindedness.

[compsports]

maybe 10 days after my 11 months taper i was really in hell and bad and i asked my GP if i can take now some St. John's wort in pill to help

 

she tell me < I prefer not, to make you do not become addicted to St. John's wort >

 

as i was informed on internet, i knew she take me for a CXXXX and was lying

i cannot trust them anymore, gp were no help for me, even dangerous to not lose a client

 

Stan,

 

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at your story.

 

She is probably the same person who pushed Seqoquel, says the cynical me.

 

CS

[Altostrata]

I would really like to know what CXXXX is. I hope it's a juicy French swear word.

[Neuroplastic]

In the midst of early double c/t WD, I had to go to a neurologist to get a sick note - I desperately needed it to keep my job (I had no other choice but to work throughout this double c/t Can't Be Described In Any Known To A Human Words Hell). Never before have I met a doctor who would examine me so thoroughly. Yet, despite those tens of questions, god-knows-how-many medical procedures in her office, my naming her the symptoms (anhedonia/akathisia/[here insert tens more]), and effectively showing those (jerks, muscle spasms, trembling, red spots on skin, ad infinitum), and... telling her openly it IS SSRIs WD syndrome, well, she said it was all caused by .... stress. LOL - kind of right - it *was* stress - my body went Majorus Disautonomus after all.

 

What Himalayas of aberration do you have to reach to say this? How iatrogenic absurd is it to not see that something doesn't click here big way? Looks like the system took care of it, too; full-blown in-denial, plus, the only known to her typology was created by the Big Pharma-sponsored system.

 

Hadn't it been for the Internet and my meeting others, I'd consider, probably like this neurologist, my symptoms to be some extreme case of a nocebo effect - the "bad substance" being here the lack of the good one, that is SSRIs.

[Light]

A neurologist evaluating my AD withdrawal symptoms said...

 

If I pinch myself like this and I can barely feel it and I pinch you the same way and you scream there's a difference of perception.

[Healing]

A neurologist evaluating my AD withdrawal symptoms said...

 

If I pinch myself like this and I can barely feel it and I pinch you the same way and you scream there's a difference of perception.

 

Ha ha! Hilarious! What a braniac! Ya think?

[Claudius]

THe most stupid one is probably the one many of us have been told. And that is the infamous "your symptoms cannt be related to the medicine because it is out of your body after a few weeks". My GP told me so and so did the farmacist who I called moths ago in the idle hope she could confirm the very bad WD from Paxil.

As even a child can understand, any addictive substance causes some kind of dependency and the withdrawal symptoms START when it the daily supply is reduced or cut off. And surely does not end when the last molecule of the med has left your body.

And any addiction specialist will confirm that going cold-turkey off any addicting drug is mostly a bad thing to do, even this is fastest way to "get the drug out of your body". I tried to explain to them that WD symtoms START instead of END when the drug is out of your system or the concentration drops below a certain level. And the violent WD could have been prevented or lessend by removing the drug very slowly out of my system. And this is so logical that I feel like an idiot explaining it to them. But they did not get it (or more likely, just are not interested in my opinion).

And I know that I am not trustworthy in their eyes, being at home for years and a recored of some irrational actions. But in this sense I know I am right. It is so frustrating but I have learned not to fight the system anymore... it is just a useless battle.

[stan]

And the violent WD could have been prevented or lessend by removing the drug very slowly out of my system.

Yes, i would add something about testimonies: taper slowly is not a guarantee of mild withdrawal, the severity of withdrawal depends more on level doses, years taken and especially nerves which are burned (important nerves give more awful symptoms)

 

And this is so logical that I feel like an idiot explaining it to them. But they did not get it (or more likely, just are not interested in my opinion).

And I know that I am not trustworthy in their eyes, being at home for years and a recored of some irrational actions. But in this sense I know I am right. It is so frustrating but I have learned not to fight the system anymore... it is just a useless battle.

 

yes, you are right, i agree totally and have the same attitude

[Punarbhava]

THe most stupid one is probably the one many of us have been told. And that is the infamous "your symptoms cannt be related to the medicine because it is out of your body after a few weeks". My GP told me so and so did the farmacist who I called moths ago in the idle hope she could confirm the very bad WD from Paxil.

As even a child can understand, any addictive substance causes some kind of dependency and the withdrawal symptoms START when it the daily supply is reduced or cut off. And surely does not end when the last molecule of the med has left your body.

And any addiction specialist will confirm that going cold-turkey off any addicting drug is mostly a bad thing to do, even this is fastest way to "get the drug out of your body". I tried to explain to them that WD symtoms START instead of END when the drug is out of your system or the concentration drops below a certain level. And the violent WD could have been prevented or lessend by removing the drug very slowly out of my system. And this is so logical that I feel like an idiot explaining it to them. But they did not get it (or more likely, just are not interested in my opinion).

And I know that I am not trustworthy in their eyes, being at home for years and a recored of some irrational actions. But in this sense I know I am right. It is so frustrating but I have learned not to fight the system anymore... it is just a useless battle.

 

Very much agree with EVERYTHING you state Claudius.

 

 

This is what I wish to say to these doctors:

 

 

"If the only knowledge you've obtained, about the drugs you prescribe, is from the pharma reps, that hardly makes you qualified to prescribe, let alone challenge anything I'm presenting to you. IMHO, you are grossly misinformed and thus, renders you unqualified to accurately access the damage caused to your patients. With this knowledge, I understand the reason behind the denial that you exhibit Doc. "

 

 

Punar

[Neuroplastic]

No one will beat this one;

 

... when I was already in a severe poop out, and after having changed the doses and adding more SSRIs (and benzos) into the mix, and being more than 55-60 pounds overweight b/c of Paxil, looking at myself in the mirror and not recognizing myself, I asked my doc *where* it all comes from, and *why* my face looks like a super bloated balloon. She came up with an answer... and the answer *so* absurd, I hardly ever talk about it for the fear of people not believing me. But here it goes;

 

"It's mid-summer, it's b/c of the sun. Your face is swollen b/c of the sun".

 

:super eye-roller:

 

And yes, as far as emotional and psychological symptoms go, there was always some explanation for those, too. Feel you, guys.

[Rhiannon]

 

 

"That is simply NOT a possible explanation," he said.

 

...

This doc was actually, by peer-comparison, really good. For that reason I hate to throw him under the bus. Nevertheless, he is a neurologist for whom the notion of protracted w/d in response to abrupt d/c of benzodiazepines after thousands of days of use is entirely alien and deserving of offhand rejection.

 

Alex I

 

Okay, I will throw him under the bus then.

 

Aren't neurologists supposed to be scientists? To say "that's not a possible explanation" is bad science and bad medicine. Ridiculous. He's an idiot. Maybe a better idiot than his peers, but that's nothing new.

[Rhiannon]

 

A neurologist evaluating my AD withdrawal symptoms said...

 

If I pinch myself like this and I can barely feel it and I pinch you the same way and you scream there's a difference of perception.

 

Ha ha! Hilarious! What a braniac! Ya think?

 

Seriously. That's exactly what I thought when I read that. LOL!

[Rhiannon]

No one will beat this one;

 

... when I was already in a severe poop out, and after having changed the doses and adding more SSRIs (and benzos) into the mix, and being more than 55-60 pounds overweight b/c of Paxil, looking at myself in the mirror and not recognizing myself, I asked my doc *where* it all comes from, and *why* my face looks like a super bloated balloon. She came up with an answer... and the answer *so* absurd, I hardly ever talk about it for the fear of people not believing me. But here it goes;

 

"It's mid-summer, it's b/c of the sun. Your face is swollen b/c of the sun".

 

:super eye-roller:

 

And yes, as far as emotional and psychological symptoms go, there was always some explanation for those, too. Feel you, guys.

 

I love this doc of yours. Where did she get her diploma, out of a bubblegum box? Never mind...unfortunately I know the answer to that...

 

What I don't understand is how medical schools can get away with this kind of bullsh*t "education" where "parroting" is apparently rewarded more highly than actual reasoning.

 

You guys do know that at least two of the authors of the most commonly used psychopharmacology textbook in US medical schools are highly-paid KOLs for Big Pharma, right? So that's the "education" these guys get. Basically what you get from watching TV commercials.

[Healing]

I love this doc of yours. Where did she get her diploma, out of a bubblegum box?

 

LOL

[cinephile]

I will never forget reading a British psychiatrist's opinion on the mind-blowing complexity of prescribing psych meds (paraphrased): "Most of what the average psychiatrist does in their office practice can be learned by the layman over a long weekend."

 

Gotta love those Brits!

 

PS: I'm leafing through Dan Carlat's UNHINGED and even he admits there is a lot of guesswork involved in prescribing psych meds. He even went so far as to say sometimes it's almost RANDOM because there is no clear winner/loser not just within a class of drug, but even BETWEEN classes of drugs (SSRIs, tricyclics, MAOIs, etc)! Amazing. Just amazing.

 

I think the blurb on the back of ANATOMY OF AN EPIDEMIC puts it best: "One day, we will look back at the way we think about and treat mental illness and wonder if we were all mad."

[Brandon]

My father, a Family Physician that owns his own practice, told me once that Ritalin was not addictive!

 

It's METHlyphenadate hcl. It's meth! It's three molecules away from cocaine. The brain can't tell the difference.

I knew tons of kids in high school that snorted it!

It's one of the most abused drugs in Canada.

[alexjuice]

 

"It's mid-summer, it's b/c of the sun. Your face is swollen b/c of the sun".

 

LOL! Love it!

 

My shrink was, until my disturbing weight loss could no longer be dismissed, convinced ALL of my withdrawal symptoms -- even a TIA that cost me my vision for about 5 minutes -- were due to my subconscious anger at my parents.

 

"Don't you think you have to look at the fact that you were especially angry with your father before your medication change?" - him

 

"Don't you think you have to look at my medication change????" - me

 

Alex.I

[summer]

 

 

My shrink was, until my disturbing weight loss could no longer be dismissed, convinced ALL of my withdrawal symptoms -- even a TIA that cost me my vision for about 5 minutes -- were due to my subconscious anger at my parents.

 

Alex.I

It seems that that is what you say when you don't have any other answers. It's classic, unfortunately, and definitely starting to get old. While there is truth to problems starting at a very young age, there is a larger picture that most docs refuse to accept.

[alexjuice]

It seems that that is what you say when you don't have any other answers. It's classic, unfortunately, and definitely starting to get old. While there is truth to problems starting at a very young age, there is a larger picture that most docs refuse to accept.

 

Totally agree, summer.

 

Yes, I would be first to admit I have anger at my parents, especially my father, and that this is something worth examining (at some point). But it's a lousy explanation for my symptoms since discontinuation. Fact of the matter, I've been TO'd at my dad for a very long time and used to be able to drink coffee while being mad at my dad with little effect. Evidently, by my shrink's bizarre reasoning, drinking coffee now makes me SO angry with my dad that I am unable to sleep for 36-60 hrs! Of course in between the different reactions to coffee, I rapidly tapered off effexor and risperdal, the reduction of which corresponded perfectly with my development of hypersensitivity. Perhaps that played a role, huh?

 

I hope someday we (me and doc) can all be adults and realize that it is entirely possible for me to have anger or resentment WHILE also having iatrogenic responses independent of Freudian explanation. He's not there yet but maybe someday!

 

Hope you are doing well today, summer...

 

Alex

[Altostrata]

alex, it sounds like your psychiatrist may have been trained in psychoanalysis, and added drugs later on top of it. Not a good combination -- he reinterprets what you tell him in a very exasperating way, and doesn't know much about the drugs.

 

But they're all like that.....

[Healing]

I hope someday we (me and doc) can all be adults and realize that it is entirely possible for me to have anger or resentment WHILE also having iatrogenic responses independent of Freudian explanation. He's not there yet but maybe someday!

 

This is exactly it. It's great that you can think this complexly. It's all too easy to fall into either/or thinking. It happens in both directions -- this is all psychological v. this is all neurological. It *is* possible for two or more things to be operating at the same time.

 

I like to add a third "cosmic" reason for why things are happening. And then I look to whichever level of explanation seems most useful in any given moment.

 

There are days when something happens which activates a psychological complex of mine and this seems to account best for my w/d symptom flare up. And then there are days when the on-going process of neurological repair seems like the best way to think about a flare up.

 

And then there are days when I get a sense of how the illness is leading me to where I'm "supposed" to be.

[alexjuice]

alex, it sounds like your psychiatrist may have been trained in psychoanalysis, and added drugs later on top of it. Not a good combination -- he reinterprets what you tell him in a very exasperating way, and doesn't know much about the drugs.

 

[Had a long response but am feeling anxious after writing about my doc's history. Even anonymously. Would rather not endure the irrational FEARSTRESS! brought on by the thought he may stumble across and then potential fallout. Mods can delete this post. Sorry.]

 

Alex.i

[summer]

 

I like to add a third "cosmic" reason for why things are happening. And then I look to whichever level of explanation seems most useful in any given moment.

 

There are days when something happens which activates a psychological complex of mine and this seems to account best for my w/d symptom flare up. And then there are days when the on-going process of neurological repair seems like the best way to think about a flare up.

 

And then there are days when I get a sense of how the illness is leading me to where I'm "supposed" to be.

 

The third cosmic reason why things are happening sounds very Zen to me... I've tried... that feeling of things are the way they are "supposed" to be doesn't last very long. Perhaps a combination of the three things you mentioned??

[summer]

 

But they're all like that.....

Sur... how about most - not "all". There are a few decent doctors, I want to believe, that are willing to at least listen... and learn.

[summer]

 

Yes, I would be first to admit I have anger at my parents, especially my father, and that this is something worth examining (at some point). But it's a lousy explanation for my symptoms since discontinuation. Fact of the matter, I've been TO'd at my dad for a very long time and used to be able to drink coffee while being mad at my dad with little effect. Evidently, by my shrink's bizarre reasoning, drinking coffee now makes me SO angry with my dad that I am unable to sleep for 36-60 hrs! Of course in between the different reactions to coffee, I rapidly tapered off effexor and risperdal, the reduction of which corresponded perfectly with my development of hypersensitivity. Perhaps that played a role, huh?

 

I hope someday we (me and doc) can all be adults and realize that it is entirely possible for me to have anger or resentment WHILE also having iatrogenic responses independent of Freudian explanation. He's not there yet but maybe someday!

 

 

 

Really strange... coffee causes you to be angry at your dad and you are unable to sleep because of the anger?? If I am understanding you correctly, that's plain ridiculous! Anyway, that isn't even a Freudian explanation... I want to say lol here, but I won't.

[Healing]

 

 

I like to add a third "cosmic" reason for why things are happening. And then I look to whichever level of explanation seems most useful in any given moment....

 

And then there are days when I get a sense of how the illness is leading me to where I'm "supposed" to be.

 

The third cosmic reason why things are happening sounds very Zen to me... I've tried... that feeling of things are the way they are "supposed" to be doesn't last very long. Perhaps a combination of the three things you mentioned??

 

Keep trying it on, summer. If it's a new way of thinking -- it is for me, and it sounds like it is for you -- then it takes awhile to get used to it, see how it fits, when it doesn't fit, etc.

 

Not sure if I understood your question....Could I interest you in starting a topic on this question over in Finding Meaning??? I'm sure we're not the only two people interested in it!

[summer]

Um... yes, if you start it.

 

It wasn't a question really - more a thought...

[brighteningup]

Recently I've noticed a marked improvement in how doctors talk with me about my anxiety and depression, particularly amongst those more recently qualified.

 

Alas it has not always been so. In 2006 I I read that CBT was being made available on the NHS for anxiety and depression. I had been looking around for a private counsellor but lived in a rural area and was struggling to find one.

 

So I, possibly rather naively, marched into my GPs surgery and explained I'd had problems with anxiety for years, I felt it was getting worse again, I didn't really want to go on drugs bur understood CBT was now available through the NHS, could he help?

 

He sat back in his chair, did he then gently ask me about my symptons, err no... he says, 'Have you ever thought about killing yourself?'

 

For a moment as I was rather shocked but thought I'd better be honest, so said 'yes I had, but not recently'

 

At which point he said he'd try and get me a referral somewhere, and give him his due, he did manage get me to someone who did offer some help.

 

I've often wondered if I'd answered no to the 'killing yourself' question would I still have been referred on.

[summer]

I've often wondered if I'd answered no to the 'killing yourself' question would I still have been referred on.

 

 

I could bet money you wouldn't have been... that's why people are learning they have to lie to get help sometimes.

 

I was sorry to read about your skin condition and hope you find something that clears it up for good.

[ladybug]

Okay, well not sure if this qualifies since the person I see is a Physician's asst. and not an actual doctor. I really like her except for the fact that she is clueless about AD WD. She cut off my Paxil supply cause she said my taper was taking too long, so I had to go elsewhere for it. Then today I tell her I am at 7.7mg and having to cut very slow because of the bad WD and she says "Well I can keep reassuring you but you won't listen. Nothing will happen if you quit right now. 7.7mg of Paxil is nothing and is doing nothing." So yeah, file that under Stupid $#*! my "doctor" says. I told her hundreds if not thousands of people on AD WD forums beg to disagree.

 

Also, my counselor told me "I've never seen anyone have WD symptoms while tapering, only when completely off."

 

Sigh.

[Altostrata]

Definitely counts as TWO stupid $#*! my doctor says!

 

Here's a paper to show them: Potential adverse effects of discontinuing psychotropic drugs: part 2: antidepressant drugs.