bubble: tapering off Lexapro and Xanax

[Petunia]

Thanks for sharing your experience of the night before your trip, I can relate to it, having  had moments very similar myself. I think you are amazing being able to do what you do, in spite of how you are feeling. Your trip sounds like it was quite an experience, but a little bit exhausting.

 

I'm really happy to hear that your are sorting things out, making plans and decisions about your life and coming to terms with the possibilities.

 

hugs

P.

[bubble]

Thanks a lot dear Petunia.

 

I just feel the need to highlight one more thing which I can't help repeating: I've been trying to come off these drugs for years, maybe even 10 years. In particular with Xanax which I knew was addictive as well as my doctor. The only result of my attempts was that I was jumping around in doses of Xanax and CT-ing ADs.

 

Now when I'm doing a controlled taper I actually feel a lot better than in years (as you can well imagine!). Not to mention the difference in treating myself and setting up expectations after I have joined the community of people who are dealing with the same issues. I was so so alone. No need to explain or justify myslef to anyone including myself. Treating myself gently comes before everything else: keeping up with social life, advancing professionally...

 

Now I know what is happening. I feel like I'm on a path and although it is very long and full of curves I believe it's a path that finally leads to a drug free life.  

[bubble]

Reading through Dave's thread yesterday, I came across a post by Rhi which, although written for Dave, speaks to me so much that I had to copy it here:

 

So that I can read it prn

 

Hey Dave--

 

Hopefully you're having some more windows now and beginning to stabilize.  But if not, don't worry. This is the hardest time. You've made the changes you need to make, and now you just have to "do the time." It's hard to trust that things will get better. Probably all the harder since this is the time of year that your PTSD hits from years ago. Just try to hang in there. Ten minutes, two hours, half a day, one more day, the time will pass and you will improve.

 

You've made a lot of what sound like good changes, to me (updosing slightly, cutting out the intense exercise, and going on a low histamine diet). I would only add that it might be good to maintain some gentle exercise--a slow walk daily or every couple of days if you can, for example. Since you're used to working out hard, try the opposite. Make the challenge be to constantly remind yourself to slow down even as your habits tell you to push. Walk like you're going through molasses. Personally, for me, when I find that I'm feeling any kind of wave of emotional reaction while exercising, I slow right down and move very consciously and slowly until it passes. I interpret it as a sign of excessive cortisol and excessive stimulation, which, for me, are not helpful to my damaged nervous system. So you may try gentle walking and careful self-awareness, and as soon as you feel any ramping up, stop and breathe, then slow down those feet. Basically, pretend like you're 90.

 

Keep us posted about the diet and how that works. Different diets work better for different folks here. I went on the GAPs diet when Gianna was doing it, and that basic low-starch diet is still what works best for me, but it's not great for histamine-sensitive people and she did better on GAPs at first and then worsened until she discovered the histamine connection. The low histamine diet on the other hand sounds like it's got more carbs than would be good for me. So listen to your body.

 

One of the hardest things in withdrawal is when you're suffering, to not do anything drastic and try not to change too much at once. Especially for positive, resourceful, solution-oriented people like you. (And me. I speak from experience. I'm the worst where this is concerned!)

 

I haven't read all the way back through your thread, but I suspect that you may have been headed for a bit of a wave even before the mixup with the syringes and measurement. Lately I've been playing with a concept that I call "fragile stability." People feel pretty stable after holding for a while, but then make even a tiny cut and get hit with symptoms. This will happen over and over. Yet those same people eventually, after holding for many months or even a year, are able to cut again with much less trouble. I suspect there is a lot of subtle healing that needs time, lots of time, to work its way through. Our nervous systems can reach a homeostatic state that's good enough when there are not a lot of extra stressors, but they're not fully healed and are still more fragile at that point than we realize, and can be easily pushed back over the edge. I think that's part of why we get those windows and those waves. I could be wrong but I think that's a pattern that I'm seeing.

 

I sure wish I could see your syringes and experiment with them and figure out what the deal is. I don't have any experience with syringes, as I have always used pipettes and labware for my own measuring. With pipettes, usually the smaller ones are more precise and measure more accurately at tiny doses than a larger one. Frustrating. 

 

Your symptoms sound pretty intense, so I would not be discouraged if it takes a while to stabilize from that condition. Can you take some time off work and reduce your life stress? Giving the nervous system a gentle, calm, nondemanding environment seems to help with the healing and rebalancing. And if you're not sleeping well, trying to push yourself to stay awake all day may not be the best thing for your nervous system. If you can take some time off and just sleep whenever your brain is ready to sleep, without having to conform to an external schedule for a few days, so it can get the healing that sleep brings, that might be something to consider doing. 

 

If you're getting any windows at all, even just for a few hours here or there, that's a good sign. But even if you aren't, you know from the past that you can heal and recover from these setbacks, and I know that you'll recover from this one too. You just have to treat your nervous system very gently. After everything it's been through in the past few years, it may well be more fragile than you realize.

 

It's possible that right now the goal of getting all the way off the mirt might not be the optimal goal to be setting for yourself. You might consider playing around with the idea of leaving that alone (you're on a very low dose now) and instead, letting your brain do the deep, invisible healing that it just hasn't had the chance to do yet, to recover from all the mangling it's gotten over past years. So often I see people just beating their heads against the wall, unable to taper off at those low doses, making tiny cuts and getting hit again and again. I can't help wondering if they're just making things worse. That maybe they need to just quit re-aggravating things for six months or a year and just let everything balance and heal and settle down and make all those changes that the brain needs to make to adapt to that low dose (and, in your case, finish healing from all the mangling it's gotten in the past). 

 

Part of why I think this is because, as I said above, I have seen people just kind of give up on tapering at those low doses for a while, a long time, even a year, and then they try it again and it goes much better. I've also seen what a difference a longer hold makes for me. I usually don't have the patience to do long holds, but when I do I am amazed at how much change I see in my own condition (and I'm always fairly stable even when tapering because I go so slow, so it's always a surprise to me that there's so much more healing that can be done beyond merely "stable.")

 

It's something to think about. It's hard, because it means doing nothing, and again, for the positive and resourceful type of person, doing nothing is way, way harder than doing something. You might consider it though. It's been a long road for me but I've learned that the holds are at least as important as the reductions. Maybe more. 

[ten0275]

Bubble, hey.

 

one of my prn's o' choice! rhi really outdid herself on that one and i'm thankful for it, and her, every time i read it - which is usually, but not always, when i am feeling the grip of a wave and feeling compelled to (re)act from the pain instead of my rational brain.

 

may our slow and oft times arduous journies bring us to that drug-free state as we patiently allow healing to guide us there!

 

dave

[ten0275]

ps. funny thing just popped in my head. i no longer react to symptoms, i rhiact. ha ha ha... cut me slack, it's wednesday...

[Pokeshaw]

Bubble,

 

So good to read your post above. And glad you are Ok in spite of that rough patch. 

I really identify in so many ways. i had been doing very well recently seeing homeopath and reducing 1% per month (at 0.455 now) but  then a wave hit me. I know that stress is always a factor so I will try to up my stress reducing practices. I struggle with cuts in dosage. I have symptoms that seem like side effects and then those that are def withdrawal and sometimes they all happen at together.  because i reinstated late (after 9 months) I feel i will continue to deal with side effects symptoms. it is a balancing act to determine when to cut. I have recently done 1% reductions monthly over aprox 4-5 months but now that i am in a wave i am holding a bit longer. The most important factor is that even with 1% cut I feel it. So that should indicate to me that i need to continue to go very slow.

You are an inspiration to me!

Poke

[Tilly]

Sending you love and best wishes from me, my adopted swans, coots & ducklings as always   

 

I cheer you on as much as my bird family chirrups for you!

 

You are a shining star showing the promise, that you may not always be able to see for yourself presently, but will in retrorespect.

 

Love to you, as always.

 

Be gentle with yourshilf and shine on, you beautiful creature!

 

Tilly x

[bubble]

Thank you Dave, Poke and Tilly for stopping by. I'm still lazy about posting but really wanted to post something to mark 2 years since joining SA.

 

It's hard to imagine that 2 years have passed but they have indeed. Last year I was actually a lot more upbeat and energetic than this year. I'm just emerging from a long and harsh wave. That trip to the States came at quite a price. I have been so dreadfully fatigued for 2 months now. But I knew I brought it on myself so couldn't complain. I just shifted the gear into the survival mode and introduced some treat your brain gently measures. To a certain extent. I have just read Rhi's post from above and was thinking about what Tilly wrote recently: it's hard for me to give up on activities and isolate myself from people. I feel like this is something very wrong to do. There is always this pressure to be active and social. But I'm putting a conscious effort into not feeling guilty for spending at least a weekend without seeing anyone. Just going to the market, cooking, doing some tidying, reading and sleeping whenever I feel the need. I even managed to resume my yoga classes and put in a month of twice a week classes. That achievemnet makes me really happy.

 

Any attempts to violate that principle of going as slow as possible was met with an increase in symptoms. I had a family wedding to go to with my mom and she was having a nice time and wanted to stay. It wasthe first social family occassion that she went to since our father died so it was hard for me to insist on leaving early. So I ended up going to bed at 4 am and I believe this sleep deprivation caused one of the most brutal waves in a long time. Cortisol was so high that it felt like panic with almost constant DP/DR and thinking every morning whether I would be able to make it to work or not. Somehow I pulled through and after a week things started getting better. Then I put myself at disposal of 4 foreign exchange students. It also felt like something I couldn't resist doing despite my need to have more of alone time. They came to my home town, they are far from their homes but bringing them over to my mom for lunch might have been too much. She is usually very hospitable but she only found out they were coming on that day so was in a bad mood and the atmosphere was strained. I was getting very tired and in the end ended up stuck in the traffic jam with her for another hour. It really pushed me over the edge. I became like a mad dog biting everyone around me. I was shouting at my mom and my brother. I just wanted to be left alone and couldn't deal with any of their comments, not even with their presence. I knew why it was happening and that it happened because I stretched my meager energy resources too far but it was also painful to witness how I have turned into a nasty creature shouting at my family.

 

I also snapped at the seminar I attended and that also made me very sad. It's true that it was badly managed. They only allowed questions after 6 brief presentations and when people protested they allowed some but decided to let me wait with my question till later. And that was one of the moments when my anger becomes in a way uncontrollable. I start seeing red, almost literally. I do things which I know are bad and harmful (as my therapist would say: on a very small scale). In this particular instance I just said I didn't have any questions any more when they finally asked me to make my question. I was sulking and I couldn't help it. And then I was haunted about being so immature and unprofessional. And at the same time aware I should practice self-compassion and stop being harsh with myself. But that was another imperative: I was harshly demanding from myself to stop treating myself harshly. Changing such patterns is a long process, it starts with awareness and WD makes it so much more complicated.

 

This brings me to marking this very important anniversary. I really can't imagine my life without everything I have learnt here and all the support I received. I went through at least 4 or even 5 CTs not knowing what was going on. And on a daily basis I was taking Xanax in such a way that I was destabilising my CNS severely. I couldn't have gone on like that any more. I regret that I stabilised on a too high dose: I was off Xanax and Lexapro for 40 days and then went to 2 mg of Xanax and 5 mg of Lexapro. That was a way too excessive. But that was the best I knew at the time. Still it doesn't prevent me from feeling bad because I spent two years of my probably final biological time tapering off the amount I didn't have to take in the first place. It's the price I have to pay for wanting to be in control at all costs. When I came here i didn't really communicate my sympotms and situation clearly. I'm used to be ahead of the game and take care of myself. Even if it means making mistakes.

 

I had to vent and let out this bitterness. Most of the time I don't think about that. I'm just focussed on improvements: I am coming down never to come back again. I believe that it isn't necessary for me to be off the drugs completely to start healing. I believe (and I feel) that my brain is healing as I'm slowly coming to lower doses. With every hold that follows a cut there is a lot of healing going on. I have learnt how to treat myself gently and put my self-care first (although it doesn't always look like that). I gave up on my ambitions.Or better to say, I prioritised one ambition: tapering. Not studying, changing jobs or countries, etc. Staying in the familiar setting where the stress is lower and where I feel safe and can go on autopilot when it needs be.

 

Another good circumstance is that my husband has been working in Asia since the end of April. I was under tremendous pressure last year having to provide for both of us while feeling so very fragile. He couldn't find a job and I felt trapped. It makes so much difference that he is earning now. He is away but actually I need so much alone time that not having to communicate to anyone when I get home is a bonus. We already have a ticket for somewhere warm and sunny towards the end of winter when I feel I can't take the cold and gloominess any more. And this feels so very good. Something to look forward to. Last year I was very active and upbeat at this time of the year but then winter brought me to my knees and even below. I believe this year things will be the other way. I believe better days are coming. This experience definitely taught me the importance of not exerting myself (agan and again). Yes, I paid a price but I have an experience. I didn't put my life on hold. Not entirely.

 

I hope I will be able to resume tapering soon. My next goal is 0.62 Xanax. Then I will go back to xanax pills (0.25 mg divided in 2 taken 5 times a day). And I will start working on Lexapro. I'm very excited about that... Updating my thread is so grounding that I should definitely do it more often   and especially when I am in a wave which I usually prefer to ride on my own. I just don't like being pathetic. Not a nice quality...   

[AliG]

  Hi Bubble,

 

You don't post much, which is maybe why I've only  just read a bit of your thread., now  & not before this. .  All very positive !   Congratulations,  on 2 years !   I haven't read it all, but what I have sounds amazing, and looking at your sig, says a lot.  I have one of your quotes, on my thread, that I thought was very wise & succinct. It sounds like you've been through a lot, as so many of us  here, have. However, you are   a " beacon" of light , and leading the way, in your healing.   Thank you.   Ali.

[bubble]

  Hi Bubble,

 

You don't post much, which is maybe why I've only  just read a bit of your thread., now  & not before this. .  All very positive !   Congratulations,  on 2 years !   I haven't read it all, but what I have sounds amazing, and looking at your sig, says a lot.  I have one of your quotes, on my thread, that I thought was very wise & succinct. It sounds like you've been through a lot, as so many of us  here, have. However, you are   a " beacon" of light , and leading the way, in your healing.   Thank you.   Ali.

Hello AliG and nice to hear from you Yes, I haven't been posting much in the previous year. Maybe I have a feeling I have said it all in these two years Also I have a full time job and I either feel well and work or don't feel well and don't post or post on other people's threads. It's great that we can support each other  in this struggle.

 

 

Hey Bubble,

Just wanted to say, I feel the anger too. I don't know if it's the w/drawal or whether it's a reaction to the unfairness of it all. Possibly the latter for me.

 

I've found it hard to control the way I feel since finishing with the drugs. It just bubbles up and can be detrimental to forming relationships, credibility and normal social behaviour. I'm far too easily wound up these days. I think it comes from being put down, not believed and having my experiences trivialised for years, despite intense suffering...much of which I internalised. None of these behaviours are the person that I was, nor the person that I want to be again...but they do reflect what I've been through. Maybe it's the same for you?

 

All I can say, is you're not alone. Try to work through the anger in therapy and learn to walk away or recognise your triggers. It's not easy.

 

x

 

Hello Marmite and thank you for sharing your experience. Irritability, aggressiveness and angry outbursts are one of my more pronounced symptoms. Which is kind of funny because I look relatively fragile and mild. I also can tell what is withdrawal here and what is my personality emerging, changing or being affected. But I would say it is definietly a kind of neuroemotion. I even started a thread where a lot of people shared similar experiences.

 

I've been working on this with my therapist. Among other things we concluded that I didn't have good role models to learn how to deal with anger. Moreover, my father's anger was so destructive that I malformed in supressing all anger which caused psychosomatic symptoms (which resulted in the initial drug treatment). I wasn't able to "feel" and express anger tillI was in my early 20ies. But irritability arising from a stressed CNS is a different pair of shoes. I have a lot of learning and growing up to do...

​

This is the thread I mentioned:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8097-coping-with-with-irritability-anger-and-rage/

[AliG]

 Hi Bubble,

 

 I can't even imagine , how you do that .   Much respect  !!   Thank you for all that you do .       Ali.

[bubble]

I would just like to record these experience of changing between windows and waves that I have just gone through.

 

Overall, things are a lot betterthan a week before and finally after over 2 months I feel like that awful fatigue is leaving me. I fall asleep like being knocked off (not complaining at all over any form and manner of sleeping). I watch the news, then I can't watch but just listen with my eyes closed and then after some time I'm simply gone. However, I again dreamt sorrow. The vehicle for this feeling of great sadness and loss was dreaming that my sister has died. The second time in 3 months...After the usual sluggishness and comforting myself with thoughts of when I will get back to bed, I had a window of calm at work. I wasn't annoyed and irritated with everything that was going on around me. It was like the other extreme: almost blissful smiling acceptance of everything that comes and everything seems positive and easy (but it's not). I felt like calling a friend, checking out a pilates class. I had motivation and energy to do things.

 

And then after a while, irritability creeps back, I have difficulty remembering what I want to do and say. Everything slows down and feels like wading through water. I become very insecure and indecisive, all my initiatives disappear and I start wondering what I am actually like, who I am: this slow motion zombie like creature or the energetic want to do things?Or something in between? If I was at home, I would take a nap now but this will now have to be delayed.

 

But I'm not complaining at all. This is just my regular, every day malfunctioning that I'm well used to. I guess this is called brain fog. I had such a beautiful mini hike after work on Monday. 2 hours of absorbing nature. Why shoudl the fact that it is raining today prevent me from experiencing some more of that  As JanCarolwrote: there is no bad weather. Just bad equipment. Still I might give it a miss today and postpone it till the weekend given that I'm starting early on a 2 day business trip. Also, like I was reading yesterday from Brassmonkey Tom I also won't to record and see and feel that there is more to life than just WD (or sometimes more sometimes less).

[brassmonkey]

When we get heavy rain here (it really does happen once in awhile) I love to go out and just sit on the back patio and let the sound, smell and feel of the spirit of water engulf me.  Nature at its purist. Just a few minutes outside thinking of nothing, just being at one can be so rejuvenating.  If you happen to be up before sunrise tomorrow and it's clear out look to the east and see Mercury, Venus and the moon all lined up.  It's a wonderful sight, saw it this morning through the branches, just had to stop and enjoy it. 

 

BTW thanks for intervening, I get myself cornered sometimes and have trouble extricating.

 

(((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))

[bubble]

The flight is at 6.20 am but it will be cloudy so won't be able to observe this astronomic phenomenon...

 

Thanx for sharing the experience of your communion with nature. It's the biggest healer of all for me

 

Hope your wave passes soon. Hugs

[bubble]

I wanted to respond to Andy but didn't want to hijack Sartramean's thread and I also wanted to post what Andy wrote because it nicely sums up how I have been feeling: 

 

Hi, Sertramean,

 

Lack of confidence is an interesting description.  I am pretty good at "going through the motions" so that I would appear to be confident to others, however, much of the time I do this I'm not really "in the moment" and am kind of outside myself.  It is a form of DP/DR and I think it makes it impossible to be confident about ones own personality because you are not really "with yourself" if that makes sense.

 

I have tapered slowly since April but I dropped from 100mg to 50mg between December 1 last year and February 1 this year.  A 50% drop, which came on the heels of a two year taper off a benzodiazepine, was likely too fast and has left me with residual symptoms that wax and wane but never go away.  In other words, I don't ever really "feel good."  I am, thankfully, not disabled and have worked throughout the process.  I am hopeful that as I drop lower and my brain adjusts further I will see meaningful healing.

 

There is nothing you can do about the past and how you got here.  You will heal.  It will just take some time.

 

Andy

 

 

So Andy, thank you and welcome to the team

[Sertramean]

Hijack my thread all you like Bubble  , and thank you for your post on there...you deal with all this with an unimaginable wisdom and lack of self-pity. I'm yet to get there but posts like yours inspire me to keep keeping on.  What Andy said about not being confident in ones own personality also struck a cord. I guess the secret is getting to a point where this no longer matters  and we begin to accept ourselves in our 'damaged' state. Then the true healing will begin. As you put so well on my thread it's time we made ourselves our 'own best friend'. 

 

As regards the 'winter blues'/SAD you mentioned on my thread, i've had a lightbox for many years and they do help. Luckily my early morning waking allows me to spend the required 30-60 mins in front of it before work. For some people they are very beneficial and are also used to combat low energy. The recommended light output is 10000 lux, light output lower than that is not recommended. Companies such as LUMIE supply some good ones and their models 'Britespark' and 'Brazil' are very popular (both 10000 lux). I got mine off Amazon but you can go direct to the company.They cost anything from £100-£150 but they last for years. I've got the 'Brazil' at the moment after having the Britespark for about 10 years. There's aslo a book by Norman Rosenthal called 'Winter Blues' which is well worth a read. Hope this helps in some way.

 

Wishing to a pleasant and sunny day wherever you are. 

[bubble]

Sertramean, thank you so much!

 

I've been struggling so hard with trying to get a hold of a lightbox. The problem is (which I luckily became aware of on time) that we here have continental sockets and nothing from US or UK would work. I might get an adapter though... but can you imagine living in a country where amazon doesn't deliver;) I will definitely explore your suggestions. Lumie came up in my research but I had no idea what to select and it seemed very expensive.

 

I hope I will be able to get hold of the book. It sounds very interesting.

 

About my lack of self-pity: there is the other sign to the coin. When I talk about self-compassion it is because I'm working hard on developing it. In my early childhood I internalised some harsh ways of treating myself so showing some more self-pity (as a way of compassion) would be a welcome change for me.

 

I win every time I say I'm not well. I need support. I still do this too infrequently and suffer in silence as I learnt when I felt that people around me had too much on their plates to worry about me. Therefore it's still a lot easier for me to offer support than to ask for it. I'm learning to do it whenever I become aware of my maladaptive pattern but it still feels a lot like walking on the moon.

 

Thank you for helping me to become aware of that. You have a very good attitude about this whole situation so I'm confident you will do fine and after some struggle come out a stronger person.

 

I just love the power of mutual support

 

(And there is a bit of sun today after 10 days

[Sertramean]

Hi Bubble

 

thanks for your kind words. I'm jealous you have sun  , it's a slate grey sky here.   

 

here's a bit of info on choosing a lightbox.

 

http://www.sad.org.uk/buying-a-sad-light/

 

http://www.lumie.com/collections/light-therapy-sad?gclid=CJ_5kcjUxsgCFQblwgodqxUMwQ   (i've got the Brazil one)

 

Where do you live Bubble?. Are there not large department stores or large pharmacies where you are? These may be able to help to order a SAD Lamp. Getting an adapter sounds like a plan and then you could get one from anywhere.  

[Sertramean]

 

I win every time I say I'm not well. I need support. I still do this too infrequently and suffer in silence as I learnt when I felt that people around me had too much on their plates to worry about me. Therefore it's still a lot easier for me to offer support than to ask for it. I'm learning to do it whenever I become aware of my maladaptive pattern but it still feels a lot like walking on the moon.

 

 

I'm exactly the same. But like i said you have the wisdom to recognise it which will work massively in your favour as you contniue on with your life. It's only having come off the drugs that I have become aware of it and that i too need support.  Are you having counselling? Even a wise friend can help, someone as wise as you!

[bubble]

Honestly, I didn't really feel like saying: please can somebody just tell me exactly which lightbox to buy (I've studied all the general info 10 000 lux, etc.) but the choices and prices and customer comments where just tooo overwhelming. So I can't really say how much this seemingly small thing means to me

 

Also it's a quite unexpected relief to hear there are people who can identify with my lack of self pity/compassion and difficulty in feeling/becoming aware of and addressing my needs. As much as I sympathise with you for sharing the same burden it just feels good to know I'm not alone in that.

 

I'm a big fan of counselling! Maybe I should revise my enthusiasm actually... I've been in therapy with various therapists for almost 20 years! And my 'wise' insights are a direct result of those years. Initially it was twice a week and now every two weeks. It may seem incredible that it took me such a long time to become aware of some very simple truths about myself. My construction has become so elaborate that therapists struggled badly to realise that my main issues are actually very, very basic but all important things which have to do with how I was formed in the first few years of my life (as all of us). For years I was awfully frustrated because I knew what it was that I did wrong in terms of the way I process information and mainly in the way I treat myself but I could do nothing about it. It seems that only after I finally accepted things I didn't like about myself, I was finally able to do something about them. It's a long way of treading new neurological pathways and at every step of the way making a conscious decision to resist taking the well trodden path but it's very exciting and liberating.

 

I would like to finish with a note for myself. It's now much later than what I usually (religiously) go to bed. But I have been at home with a cold for the whole week and this was actually the first totally slow period for me in a long, long time. As a result, I feel a lot more calm and present with myself and other people than in a long, long time. And yet, I was battling with such horrible guilty conscience over staying at home and not going to work. Even imagining I will now just drift off the workforce and lose my ability to work, I'm not sick enough etc. Such horrible feelings and internalised thoughts still present after so much work on myself... But they are now in the open. I know what I'm dealing with. I just had to keep telling myself that I needed this and deserved it. (And I was unhappy that I had to tell myself that, that there was still the need for it so I also had to stop being unhappy over the pressure to auto correct and accept even that... just moving through different layers of acceptance  

[bubble]

Just a brief update while sitting in the sun by a murmuring stream... how can it be anything but positive from this perspective

 

I have finally stabilised and seen that awful fatigue disappear after good two months. Unfortunately I had one super busy period at work where I had to take on multiple and exhausting roles with the result of being depleted again. I enjoyed doing it but it was simply too mych. Although I did try to unload I failed to see how: we had international visitors, the boss got ill, other colleagues struggle with their English, no money for translation... My work was recognised abd rewarded, I got two days off but feel like I would need at least 2 weeks...Made another cut. Moving slowly but surely and safely. Impatient to start tackling Lexapro soon but trying not to think too much about it.

 

It was beautiful to feel stable, able to function and not feel like a frightened 4 year old in the world of adults.

 

But what I actually wanted to record is a little observation I've just made: I closed my eyes and got in touch with my body. I can feel it raw, wired and tense. Especially under my eyelids, there is so much commotion, buzzing and firing of little signals. The more I focused on them, the more intense that firing seemed to get. Then I moved my focus to the sound of the stream, followed the murmours and when I next focused on what was going on behind my eyelids there was much less buzzing...

 

Off to a few more hours of communing with nature...

[apace41]

 

I wanted to respond to Andy but didn't want to hijack Sartramean's thread and I also wanted to post what Andy wrote because it nicely sums up how I have been feeling: 

 

Hi, Sertramean,

 

Lack of confidence is an interesting description.  I am pretty good at "going through the motions" so that I would appear to be confident to others, however, much of the time I do this I'm not really "in the moment" and am kind of outside myself.  It is a form of DP/DR and I think it makes it impossible to be confident about ones own personality because you are not really "with yourself" if that makes sense.

 

I have tapered slowly since April but I dropped from 100mg to 50mg between December 1 last year and February 1 this year.  A 50% drop, which came on the heels of a two year taper off a benzodiazepine, was likely too fast and has left me with residual symptoms that wax and wane but never go away.  In other words, I don't ever really "feel good."  I am, thankfully, not disabled and have worked throughout the process.  I am hopeful that as I drop lower and my brain adjusts further I will see meaningful healing.

 

There is nothing you can do about the past and how you got here.  You will heal.  It will just take some time.

 

Andy

 

 

So Andy, thank you and welcome to the team

 

 

Bubble,

 

My apologies for not acknowledging your post sooner -- I confess to not having followed your thread prior to this, but having read it I realize that was poor judgment on my part!   A lot of very inspiring stuff in here.  Thank you for that and for all you have done on this site.  You are extremely wise and insightful in the things you say.

 

I suspect that you and I are very, very similar because the things you have pointed to and "owned" are so pervasive for me.  They are at the core of how I feel on a daily basis and the things I desperately want to improve as I continue on this journey.

 

Glad to be on the team,

 

Andy

[Pokeshaw]

Hi Bubble - I so love your post about the murmuring stream!  I completely identify with that. the days when i shut my eyes and listen to one of my relaxation pieces are always so much more peaceful. sitting next to the murmuring stream is even better! how wonderful. It works!!

 

My company just moved to a new building and we have a 'quite room'. I have scoped it out and keep urging myself to go in there for 10 minutes and listen to one of my fave relaxation exercises. Funny how i am resisting it. something about not wanting to 'let go' like that while at work. though i know it will be very helpful. maybe this week!

 

I am happy to hear you are feeling stabilized after such a busy period. We have one coming up in the next few weeks. fortunately they have hired a couple of extra people so i dont feel too stressed just yet. The quiet room will be helpful!

 

Take good care ~~

 

Poke

[servadei]

Lol Bubble, I didn't know you were from Croatia!

[Altostrata]

bubble, it's good to hear you're having some periods when you feel better.

[KarenB]

Hello Bubble,

 

I hadn't read your thread before, but I'm glad I picked it up today and got to read about the bubbling stream sounds helping your eyes relax.  I need to do something like that.  Sometimes I feel like I aren't seeing things properly but it's hard to explain because everything is 20/20.  It's just like I'm not seeing things or something, or I've got too disconected with my eyes.  Anyway, your description made me think there are things to try...so thank you.

 

Hugs,

KarenB

[bubble]

Hope will have the energy for an update. What Rhi wrote to me is something I will have to consider hard 

 

 

 

i'm thinking to myself: oh MB is getting more productive...it's high time it happens to me too;)

still struggling with my focus and concentration but started listening to music on the earphones and it helps...

bubble I don't want to hijack MB's thread but I think you are very productive, maybe even doing too much for someone in withdrawal and tapering!

 

[LexAnger]

I am happy for you being stablized and feeling good, Bubble!

I am too holding long to live a bit life to be able to continue. There is no need to rush giving the nasty WD hell and the long lasting journey. And yu deserve the most for the break!

 

Your o=bservaiton is very interesting as I too have this feeling all the time that short circuit electricity in my whole body especially in my head and upper ody firing off sparks. I somehow believe my irregular heartbeat (only detactable by the heart monitor not my own pulse) is caused by the wrong electric signals allover my system as my pulse is relatively normal even the monitor reading jumps around crazily from 70-240 in a few seconds.

 

be kind to yourself and wish you a long break for a happy holiday!

Lex  

[bubble]

Nice to hear from you Lex and thank you for stopping by Andy, Poke, Servadei, Alto and Karen. 

 

I just didn't have the energy to record my latest escapade so only started by copying a very important observation by Rhi. My break was short-lived and the peace achieved very fragile. Going back to work, even while doing my best to take things slow, triggered symptoms again. But then things escalated even further into the worst episode possibly ever. It's very traumatic to experience something like that and I'm still recovering from effects it had on my hope to survive antidepressants and a benzo and positive outlook about the process. 

 

I was on a business trip abroad. It wasn't stressful and I normally look forward to such opportunities. Travelling there I actually felt more stable than in a long while. Even my constant inner mental vibrating stopped and was replaced by inner peace, presence in the moment and a sense of being connected with the things and people around me. Maybe that caused me to be a bit more reckless the next day. I didn't do much. I just did what a 'normal' person would do but it was obviously way too much for me. I was in a seminar from 9 till 5.30. It was tiring and during breaks I was also networking with people which happens at such occasions. Then I decided to join the others for a guided tour before dinner. The main mistake seems to be staying in the pleasant company at dinner past the time when I started feeling depleted. On one level I enjoyed talking to nice people and on the other I didn't have the mental energy for enjoying myself so I quickly went into the red without really noticing it. Instead of recharging through isolation in my room I over stimulated myself and once I crossed the threshold of my fatigue I wasn't able to switch off to fall asleep and had a restless night waking up early. The next day the seminar continued and required a more active participation and more interaction. It burnt even more of my energy which was already dangerously low.

 

I found myself talking as if from an empty barrel. Like my thoughts were cut off from the supply of mental energy. I spend a lot of time with my therapist trying to understand what happens to me in such situations which are becoming very frequent. It is loss of touch with my inner self, crossing my personal boundaries in touch with other people and their energies. I don’t blame it on WD. I somehow make a point in distinguishing things which are due to WD and those that are due to my general malfunctioning. But being in WD makes my CNS more susceptible to malfunctioning in that way especially when put under additional stress even or especially when this stress is a result of pleasant activities. At the end of the seminar I was talking to people with great difficulty desperately trying to connect to my energy supply, to ground myself. I don’t think I have ever come across a description of what I’m going through in such moments and I’m so bad at describing it. I was reading through the thread on DP/DR but didn’t really feel it describes what I’m going through. Yes, there is this out of body sensation, like this is some other person talking. For a moment I forget where I am, what I’m doing and who I am. It’s like utter darkness descending on my brain accompanied by a very intense fear that this darkness will engulf me and that I will totally lose control/my mind. There is also blackness in my head, feeling that I’m disintegrating and cannot hold myself together. Unlike a panic attack although accompanied by awful anxiety and fear about what is happening to me there are really no physical symptoms and the agony is mostly mental.

 

I tried to calm down, ground myself by focusing on my environment and breathing and it probably helped to a certain extent. I thought that sitting on a bus by myself would help me to pull myself together and recharge. But one hour into a 3 hour trip instead of relaxing into a much needed nap

 

I was pushed into more overdrive until things around me got badly disconnected again. I then became aware that I’m in a bus, on a highway stuck for another two hours in a foreign country after which I’ll have to go through a very big airport, all the procedures and board a plane… as I was imagining next steps which I didn’t think I was capable of taking in the present state I got into a real panic with the urge to cry, scream for help, stop the bus., run out… I managed to somehow calm down by focusing on my breath and remembering (vaguely) other things I’ve been reading here about managing panic such as trying to stay calm to prevent fear to escalate, telling myself I won’t lose my mind (seemed totally unconvincing) and just focusing on surviving one moment after the other and passing on minutes rather than the whole series of steps that were between me and the safety of my bed. I somehow managed, minute by agonisingly slow minute to make it to the airport. It was hard to remember the whole familiar procedure at the airport but somehow I did it. Contrary to what I feared the panic didn’t spread like fire. There were moments where I would surface from the sea of agony to catch a breath and I made it home 6 hours following the onset of panic/DP/DR/whatever it was.

 

As a measure of self-care I took a day off even before so today I just tried to unwind even when I couldn’t sleep. For the next two days of this week I will just lie to my GP and boss that I have diarrhoea. I took a part of my regular walk today. I had no energy nor motivation so at one point I just lay in the sun (feeling grateful for the climate change which brought us sun in November). Even that made me anxious so I just rushed home. Above everything I’m deeply traumatised by what I’ve been through. I’m asking questions of whether I can continue to work. I can’t at the moment. And this moments have a tendency to seem like definite future. But I know that things pass so I’m trying not to think about the future although I’m aware that something will have to be done. I don’t even think that cut played much of a role in this episode. I just overdid it with organising that event 3 weeks ago and I still haven’t recovered, I’m still very, very fragile and I simply pushed myself too much with activity which didn’t seem as a trigger because it is enjoyable, under normal circumstances.

 

If it hadn’t been for 2 years of SA, I really have no idea how I would survive all of this. This is the worst episode I experienced under the worst of circumstances and things I’ve learnt here saved me. It’s still horrible, I’m still badly shaken but I can’t imagine going through this without the coping strategies I’ve learn here as well as reading about experiences from other members who are a living proof that people not only survive but recover even from such horrors (and worse). Whatever happens we simply have no choice but to recover. Just be stubborn enough to recover. 

[LexAnger]

Hi Bubble,

 

You described all so well! These are the most foreign and weird sensation/symptoms that are not ever defined/described in human history and indeed they never exist before these drugs were introduced.

 

My symptoms are so much like what you have on the brain/mental energy part. I often describe it in my journal as 'brain weakness, non-functional, not catching up, not processing data etc.'. I am also still working but to be honest most my mornings I cant get any work done due to various symptoms, and in afternoon it also depends but usually I can get a few things done. My major roles are managing teams to work on projects, mainly involving emails, meetings (teleconference) etc. and my working hours are very flexible and I am allowed to work from home half of the time. I know for fact that if its not for the type of the work , and for the flexibility I got, I could not make it for a long time already.

 

I totaly understand what you feel about work. What I think of all these is the damage to the brain by WD in general sense. I read ppl saying these eventually go away when they heal. SO I am hoping they are just temperary. For the consideration of my job, I recently (after the most severe hit from WD) decided to hold the taper for a few years to allow me enough functionality to work and live until I am ready for retirement. I hope the long hold will allow the brain to heal and recover for its function for my new strategy and goal. We will have to see. 

 

Also, just to ensure my understanding, are you still on Prozac and Zoloft? If so, at what dose? Otherwise, you may want to update your signature

 

I hope you find ways to take care both the situation and your work. Its very hard but we made it so far amazingly so it is possible we can continue making it.

 

Hugs,

Lex

[KarenB]

Hello Bubble,

 

Thank you for taking the time to share all of that.  You really are a survivor.  Such strength, and now you are home such clarity to describe your experiences. 

 

I was intrigued to read your description:

 

At the end of the seminar I was talking to people with great difficulty desperately trying to connect to my energy supply, to ground myself. I don’t think I have ever come across a description of what I’m going through in such moments and I’m so bad at describing it. I was reading through the thread on DP/DR but didn’t really feel it describes what I’m going through. Yes, there is this out of body sensation, like this is some other person talking. For a moment I forget where I am, what I’m doing and who I am. It’s like utter darkness descending on my brain accompanied by a very intense fear that this darkness will engulf me and that I will totally lose control/my mind. There is also blackness in my head, feeling that I’m disintegrating and cannot hold myself together.

 

 

I hesitate to comment because all I've got to draw on is my own experience of dissociating (and this might be something you know about anyway).  Whether what happens for me is what happens for you I don't know, so I'll just describe it a bit. 

 

When my energy is down or I'm faced with something difficult/truamatic, my brain kind of shuts down to operate on bare-basics.  If I'm facing both low energy and a difficult situation it happens even more intensely.  It feels self-protective - I am just inside myself and no one can see in.  I become very child-like.  I only seem to be aware of what I'm feeling, and of nothing outside of myself.  I don't really see anything of the physical world anmore.  I'm vaguely aware that my responses no longer match what is happening around me, but I don't care because when I'm in that place I no longer understand that I'll ever be any other way.

 

My counselor explained it as a response to trauma.  We try to switch everything off so we can't feel and therefore can't be hurt.  If we've had past traumas, when confronted with a new trauma/difficulty we more easily slip into that 'other' space.  If we used this coping mechanism during child-hood, and especially pre-5-years-old, we're even more adept at just 'sliding away' into that other space.   It's a coping mechanism.      

 

Well, just ignore all that if I'm way off base . 

 

It sounds towards the end of your post like you're hanging on to your hope - even if only just.  I'm sure that as you rest and stabilise a bit, it will strengthen again.  You just went through so much.  Sometimes I day-dream of a place where people can go and simply be nurtured and cared for, for as long as is needed - maybe by lovely mothers-aunties-grannies.  A lovely, gentle place, clean and with good food and gardens.   

 

I wish I could send you some of that.

KarenB

[bubble]

Some 10 days after my earth shattering episode I'm pretty much at my baseline or near it. I couldn't think at the time it would be possible so soon. I introduced radical self care plan: took 3 days off work and walked in the nature for 3 hours every day with sessions by the stream. One night I woke up to a panic level anxiety but then things started settling little by little and very gradually. I was scared of going to work on Monday. If I got involved in a discussion with a colleague I would again experience black outs and then he to refrain from getting overly engaged and focus hard on reducing stimuli and calming down. It seems then from one day to the next my stamina would increase bit by bit and towards the end of the week my brain functioned very well till 1 pm and I tried to do as much work as possible by then. (It seems I'm the opposite than you Lex).

 

Thank you so much for sharing your experience Lex. I follow your journey and the way you cope with working in WD. While I was off work I kept daydreaming about quitting office work and start up ecological agriculture. I have a small plot of land in the country... But I have no stamina to start up businesses, of course. It was just good to think outside the box and have a sense of broader opportunities, imagine what it would be like to spend days outdoors instead of stuck behind the desk. Other aspects of that move are far less appealing so it remains just a daydream. But maybe I could again have a garden there as I used to have a few years ago... 

 

Hi Bubble,

 

My symptoms are so much like what you have on the brain/mental energy part. I often describe it in my journal as 'brain weakness, non-functional, not catching up, not processing data etc.'. I am also still working but to be honest most my mornings I cant get any work done due to various symptoms, and in afternoon it also depends but usually I can get a few things done. My major roles are managing teams to work on projects, mainly involving emails, meetings (teleconference) etc. and my working hours are very flexible and I am allowed to work from home half of the time. I know for fact that if its not for the type of the work , and for the flexibility I got, I could not make it for a long time already.

 

Also, just to ensure my understanding, are you still on Prozac and Zoloft? If so, at what dose? Otherwise, you may want to update your signature

 

Lex, thank you so much for noticing things about my signature! Nobody pointed it out to me so I corrected it now: I was taking Prozac and then Zoloft one after the other, never at the same time and CT-ing them is a reason why Lexapro was introduced. I try not to think about this because these are years lost to ignorance about those drugs. And SA was around when I was making awful mistakes and hurting myself badly but it obviously wasn't meant to be that I find it until I did...

[bubble]

I hesitate to comment because all I've got to draw on is my own experience of dissociating (and this might be something you know about anyway).  Whether what happens for me is what happens for you I don't know, so I'll just describe it a bit. 

 

When my energy is down or I'm faced with something difficult/truamatic, my brain kind of shuts down to operate on bare-basics.  If I'm facing both low energy and a difficult situation it happens even more intensely.  It feels self-protective - I am just inside myself and no one can see in.  I become very child-like.  I only seem to be aware of what I'm feeling, and of nothing outside of myself.  I don't really see anything of the physical world anmore.  I'm vaguely aware that my responses no longer match what is happening around me, but I don't care because when I'm in that place I no longer understand that I'll ever be any other way.

 

My counselor explained it as a response to trauma.  We try to switch everything off so we can't feel and therefore can't be hurt.  If we've had past traumas, when confronted with a new trauma/difficulty we more easily slip into that 'other' space.  If we used this coping mechanism during child-hood, and especially pre-5-years-old, we're even more adept at just 'sliding away' into that other space.   It's a coping mechanism.      

 

Well, just ignore all that if I'm way off base . 

 

It sounds towards the end of your post like you're hanging on to your hope - even if only just.  I'm sure that as you rest and stabilise a bit, it will strengthen again.  You just went through so much.  Sometimes I day-dream of a place where people can go and simply be nurtured and cared for, for as long as is needed - maybe by lovely mothers-aunties-grannies.  A lovely, gentle place, clean and with good food and gardens.   

 

I wish I could send you some of that.

KarenB

 

Thank you so much for sharing your experience Karen. It is comforting to read that this happens to other people as well and you explanation is very spot on. It makes a lot of sense. I just have a feeling that what happens in my case is that instead of being just on the inside as you so nicely describe I spill over and am more outside myself. It is also connected to the mechanism of dealing with the early childhood environment. The way I explain it to myself is that I was brought up by my grandmother since I was a year old. Instead of a mother who enjoys her child the way he or she is, my grandmother was expecting me to comply with the outside standards. She was also emotionally very detached and I just remember her disciplining me all the time. This is what I internalised: always monitoring whether my reactions are in compliance rather than feeling safe enough to just be who I am. I learnt to be very much outside myself analysing my environment to see how I can best satisfy it and thus earn approval and maybe affection and warmth. It took me years to become aware of the way I interact with my environment and how it consumes vast amounts of my psychic energy ultimately causing anxiety and depression. For years now I've been try to unlearn this and develop more healthy patterns and I think I'm getting there through some form of self-parenting. I found that concept as well as the concept of inner child very helpful.

 

When you write about a place we could go to be nurtured, that's my dream as well! That's what we all need sometimes in place of hospitals where they just try to aggressively remove the symptom instead of letting us heal in a safe place. I believe we will one day have such homes run by peers rather than doctors. I think that was the idea behind Soteria project which seems to have fallen a victim to Big Pharma. I'm also thinking that maybe one day when I heal I might do something to contribute to make this happen... In the meantime I have created a kind of safe place for myself which works while I'm not too unwell: I live close to nature and can nurture myself. But imagine if we could all go somewhere in nature, leaving our laptops behind and busy ourselves with growing vegetables in the garden (if we are up to), roaming around or just sitting under a tree, cooking nutritious meals, doing yoga, meditation ... all 100 little things that make us better...  

[AliG]

Hi Bubble,

 

Sounds like a lot of us have that " dream".

 

When you write about a place we could go to be nurtured, that's my dream as well! That's what we all need sometimes in place of hospitals where they just try to aggressively remove the symptom instead of letting us heal in a safe place. I believe we will one day have such homes run by peers rather than doctors. I think that was the idea behind Soteria project which seems to have fallen a victim to Big Pharma. I'm also thinking that maybe one day when I heal I might do something to contribute to make this happen... In the meantime I have created a kind of safe place for myself which works while I'm not too unwell: I live close to nature and can nurture myself. But imagine if we could all go somewhere in nature, leaving our laptops behind and busy ourselves with growing vegetables in the garden (if we are up to), roaming around or just sitting under a tree, cooking nutritious meals, doing yoga, meditation ... all 100 little things that make us better...  

 

Love,

 

Ali.

[LexAnger]

Thanks Bubble for updating your signature! I'm glad you are off those two and almost done with Xanax.

I see you have been micro tapering Xanax for years without long holds just like what I did for lex. What I learned from the recent biggest hit down to 3.2mg is the importance of long holds. I am forced to take breaks from further reduction due to a new level of disability and severe heart issue. I have been on this dose for 11 weeks ( the longest hold since my micro taper after my system was super sensitized by the multiple dose change up and down last June- August.), and I am starting seeing the positive effects of the long holds. I heard others talks about it too, so wonder if you'd like to consider a long hold to allow your body stabilize before father taper.

 

Also, do you remember when you started having the brain issue? Mine started when I came down with dose soon after the dose increase. i never had any mental or psyc sxs before during my initial quick taper from 10 to 2.7 within 5 months, only various pain allover.

 

I hope you can find a way to feel more functional to keep the job, as the financial situation can be another big stressor if the job is important to you in terms of that.

 

Hugs,

Lex

[KarenB]

It's lovely to know the dream is shared - much more likely for it to come true. 

 

I also love hearing about how you (and others) take care of yourselves.  It's so uplifting just to read about the specific things people do - like your nature walks and 'radical self-care plan.'  That's what is really needed - such absolute focus on healing, and with such determination and hope.  Thank you for continuing to share how it goes for you.

 

You've obviously put a lot of thought into how your past with your grandmother connects into your 'now.'  I can empathise with the way energy is lost when we are trying to battle through the world in a way we just weren't meant too.  I call it living in the Trauma World, and I try to notice and remind myself to live in the NonTrauma World.  Part of this is taking care of my inner child, and remaining the adult woman myself.  Sounds like what you are doing too.  (If you are interested I've written more about this in my blog, link in my signature).

 

I love to find people who understand these things, but of course it's sad too...  

 

But happy that you've had such improvement .

Hugs,

Karen