bubble: tapering off Lexapro and Xanax

[bubble]

Thanks Bubble for updating your signature! I'm glad you are off those two and almost done with Xanax.

I see you have been micro tapering Xanax for years without long holds just like what I did for lex. I heard others talks about it too, so wonder if you'd like to consider a long hold to allow your body stabilize before father taper.

 

Also, do you remember when you started having the brain issue? Mine started when I came down with dose soon after the dose increase. i never had any mental or psyc sxs before during my initial quick taper from 10 to 2.7 within 5 months, only various pain allover.

 

I hope you can find a way to feel more functional to keep the job, as the financial situation can be another big stressor if the job is important to you in terms of that.

 

Hugs,

Lex

 

Dear Lex,

 

I found your post very helpful. Although I could say the very same things when looking at the situation of someone else, it's a lot more difficult when it comes to myself. The thing is that I have had/still have a hope that I will have time to try and have a child (past 38 now). This is the fact that highly influences the way I manage my taper. Otherwise I wouldn't be impatient and mostly I really am focused on the quality of my life and how far down I have come rather than on how far I still have to go. But given the way things are I'm close to abandoning my "ambition". In any case, when I feel as bad as I do now I do hold. But I will definitely consider a hold of few months... I'm desperate to keep my job and with recent escapades that started looking like mission impossible. The social system here is extremely poor no disability insurance to fall on. If I don't get a salary every month and can't keep up with repaying my home loan, I'll lose my flat. What I have done so far as a way of accommodation to withdrawal was giving up on my other ambitions to change the job and/or take up further studying. But maybe I haven't done enough. My job is still way too stressful for me. Maybe stressful is not a really good word... It's just that there is too much stimulation.

 

When I read Petunia's latest update I found myself in this description:

 

 

I was in my typical daytime pattern of having woken too early with adrenaline rushes, high levels of fear and dread and an inner sense of danger. There was mild shaking, body tension, and random neuro-emotions which seemed to be triggered by almost anything from hearing something negative or positive, a random thought,  to noticing a leaf laying on the ground and suddenly feeling completely overwhelmed by fear. I seem to have been living with a kind of PTSD with my anxiety being triggered randomly by anything, everything and nothing from the moment I wake until late afternoon. Worse some days, not as bad on other days but never being able to achieve a state of deep relaxation which the body needs to do its repair work, not even in sleep. My nervous system seems to have been stuck in a permanent state of fight/flight/freeze.

 

On Friday, when my package was delivered, the worst of the symptoms had subsided for the day and I was heading towards the early afternoon phase  which meant as long as I kept away from most stimulation and controlled my environment, then I could maintain a semi-relaxed state which was bearable. This meant staying in my room, avoiding other people and finding non-arousing things to do on the internet to distract me. These uncomfortable physical sensations would fill my whole awareness if I didn’t keep myself focused on something else.

 

This describes how I have been feeling over the last month or so. With the addition of awful dissociating and dp/dr which made me think that although I could've functioned at work with extreme anhedonia, mental slowness and concentration problems, this would be something I wouldn't be able to cope with. And two nights ago I even had a full blown panic attack which I didn't have even after I CT-ed 2 years ago.

 

It happened during another business trip at night preceding two days of intense meetings. These panic attacks now have more mental components to them rather than physical. There is no shortness of breaths, palpitations and shivering from cold after it finishes as it used to be before. And this actually makes them scarier. After spending 2 years here I had a whole arsenal of surviving skills at my disposal and I couldn't believe that I made it through the next day and what was even more amazing was able to sleep the next night and saw the anxiety drop to a manageable level.

 

But I still don't know what I should do. Somehow it seems that I should take a few weeks of a sick leave because its obvious that my nervous system just can't recover from when I overdid it at work a month ago. Few days that I have been taking off were obviously not enough I would recover a bit but any further exhaustion would unravel me again. So longer rest would be very much in order except that it would be important that I actually stay at work over the next two weeks. So maybe I will again take only one day off and see if that helps before taking more drastic measures.

 

Brain symptoms of the dp/dr nature first appeared after CTing both Xanax and Lexapro. They reappeared when I experimented this by trying a small cut on Lexapro shortly after a cut on Xanax. The results of the experiment were very clear. I almost didn't notice but my symptoms of extreme fatigue, anhedonia and irritability have disappeared or better to say they got replaced by anxiety spectrum symptoms.

 

Thank you so much Karen for sharing your experiences. It means so much to know other people have been and are fighting the same battles. I did read your blog and I really enjoyed the description of the grass therapy you shared in one of the posts here. I practice is often myself  

[LexAnger]

Hi Bubble,

 

Sorry for the delayed response! I have been in a whole new level of disability since thanksgiving weekend with extreme fatigue and complete loss of congnitive ability. I haven't been able to work or even gotten out much lately.

 

I am so sorry this trauma hits you at your early life ! I'm 52 and single with a son grown up so it's much easier for me to manage the family situation. I can't imagine how others can handle everything with a family for the giving situation.

 

I understand completely how you adjust your ambitions as I keep lower mine quickly going with the rapidly decreasing ability the tapering put me over just one year. All my effort in the past was for the first priority of not being completely disabled for work and now suddenly I am not able to even take care of myself for the very basics of living. It seems no matter how careful you are, the greater danger is very hard to avoid.

 

The disability benefit is another hassle for all of us as validation of mental illness is very difficult to get from doctors especially those from the drug WD. It sound to me your status is still at the manageable level in terms of keeping the job. Looking back, I would hope I could maintain my previous level instead of further tapering. This hell is truly bottomless.

 

It's still hard for me to type today. I hope you are as careful as possible in future taper, holding long periodically to ensure the delayed effects are gone before next cut.

 

Love and hugs,

Lex

[bubble]

The past two weeks have been some very dark times. Almost constant near panic level anxiety, waking up in near panic after a few hours of sleep. But the worst was that malfunctioning of the brain, its frequent disappearing into dissociating and dp/dr. Of course the fear was so strong but had I not spent so much time here that secondary fear would be the worst thing to deal with. I have no idea how I would cope with the idea that I had "progressed into psychotic symptoms". I didn't have the strength to write about it here while it was happening because I felt writing about it would just reinforce it. I'm so bad at being vulnerable and weak and reaching out. I can only read posts of other people who voice that inner anguish for me.

 

When I'm at my worst I just shut as if to conserve all the energy and direct it towards healing. I took a further step in emergency care. I recognised I was deteriorating and had to protect myself by taking a full week off work and walking everyday for 3 to 4 hours. I felt so bad about bringing myself to this state. Not so much through tapering but through too much work, not even stress, just work. Not that it was just objectively too much but 'normal' living or even its semblance is just too much for somebody withdrawing. (It took 2 years for what Rhi wrote to sink in...)

 

I'm not sure I can talk about this in the past tense but I thought I will have to give up my job because I won't be able to function like this any more and I will never heal and be well enough to taper if I have to put so much of my energy into maintaining the appearance of a normal living. But after one week off I realised again what I know already: that structure, interaction and sense of purpose are just as important for my well being as rest. I also realised that instead of summer hols this year I went on an extremely exhausting trip that I'm probably still paying for. But most of my annual leave is coming in January. I haven't had 3 weeks uninterrupted rest for a long time. The thought that it is approaching and that we are entering a quiet period is making me feel so much better.

 

A very interesting indicator that I have recovered is that I started thinking about the next small cut. When I'm struggling, cutting doesn't come to my mind at all. It's interesting to see how it works although I will not cut just as yet, I will join the wait until Xmas club My expectations from Xmas are very low to non-existent. I don't care about the social pressure. I'm not even going to decorate the Xmas tree because my husband is away and I'll visit my mom, brother and sister and we will just act like it's almost any other day (except that we can be very low. It seems that my family is normally low energy, drugs or no drugs. Only I ever resorted to them.) I seem to be gratefully entering the second stage where my body feels all the depletion that weeks of anxiety caused. And i'm so happy I will be able to give my brain what it needs.

 

Years and years back I was so scared of my panic attacks and I so badly wanted to belong to the world of 'normal', working people that I was taking drugs just to be able to do so. Now I endured the panic without even thinking of stopping it with drugs. I knew it would run its course eventually. Maybe if I had written while I was in that state that belief wouldn't really transpire but it was there. Most importantly, I felt ready to give up the job in order to live without drugs. That feeling was huge. I believe it's called acceptance.

 

I'm far from being entirely out of the woods but  throughout the day I have windows where inner restlessness disappears, brain fog clears and I simply wait for those moments just plodding through the rest. I was able to feel that I was healing and not deteriorating. Even if I had to accept that I was less functional than before. Before I couldn't live with the thought of not being able to work. It would be the end of the world (as I know it) for me. Now I was able to imagine that with relative peace: it doesn't mean you are out of the game for good if you step aside for a while and take a time out. I was able to look at this as a temporary process even if it didn't feel like that at the time. But I had this experience of my worst dreams simply not coming true so many times before....

[Pokeshaw]

Hi Bubble - Just dropped by, havent been here in a while. saw your post and wanted to reach out give you a hug. I am so sorry to hear how difficult things have been for you but I see that you are working on being Ok with it and finding the healing moments. I understand. This process is so intense sometimes. And i really identify with your feelings about work. Although it can be very activating for me it also is a life saver. I do much better when i can be useful and when i have some structure. The 3 months i spent on disability were very difficult. I knew i could not work but i felt like i was waiting for something to happen and i had too much time to focus on the debilitating symptoms i was experiencing.

I hope you find yourself in a good window soon - much needed. You will get better. i know it.

 

I am doing Ok. down to .435 mg of Lex and about ready to cut to .430. The homeopath i worked with was interesting. I went thru a difficult spell where all the symptoms were activated and so I stopped the treatment. since then it seems that the length of time i can tolerate a dose has gotten shorter. after 2-3 weeks i start having the bad side effect symptoms and need to cut to get relief. there was a time i had to stay months on one dose before that would happen. Rhi was right. it takes time to stabilize after being in such a de-stabilized state.  I sure miss her! I dont know many of the folks here now but am happy to see that they are joining and getting guidance. 

 

I hope you feel better soon. Thinking of you ~~

 

Pokeshaw

[LexAnger]

Dear Bubble,

 

I got a mixed feeling after reading your last post yesteray feeling difficult to express myself. 

 

I am so very sorry you are feeling unwell in the past 2 weeks and the how you think the impact of it on your job situation. I totally feel you and I am actually with you on this as I am going through the exact same thinking! I know this can be devastatng but glad you can make peace with the possibility of taking a break for a while. I have thought many times before that I was not able to work but I kept pushing myself for each day not giving up until now for the same reason. I used to be able to push as my old sxs are mainl physical now with the mental problems (brain non-functional) it is nothing I can push further.

 

Even though, I still have hope that this mental issue might be just temperary and may leave while I am holding for the brain to heal.

 

When did this symptom start? What do you think the main cause of it? Do you think a longer hold might help?

 

I really hope it settles down over the holiday season for both of us.

 

Love and hugs,

Lex

[bubble]

Dear Poke, it's lovely to hear from you and your view of the work is very helpful. This sounds liek deja vi but I think I once wrote how I was reminded to look up a post about all different stages between working liek I do now I quitting work altogether... I can never tell whether my need to change jobs is genuine or a neuroemotional urgency...

 

Dear Lex,

 

you are so right in describing your mixed feeling! It's probably because I was trying to present myself better than I really was. that's what caused conflicting messages: struggling badly but trying to give myself positive self-talk (not allowing to show how badly I'm doing actually). I don't know if pushing myself is good for me or whether it is actually hurting me... I tried so hard to take things slow but when I look back I see that I pushed myself dreadfully: my husband was unemployed so I worked on the side, i worked through my hols, then I had awfully exhausting trips and events to organise, etc., etc. Even somebody with a lot sturdier CNS woudl find it hard . Now even interaction with friends is too much.

 

The day after I wrote this post I felt dreadful and in agony: walking down the street assualted by brief flashes of not knowing where I was and where I was going. Like completely losing a picture. It's like my brain is struggling so badly and just can't keep on going. I felt like jumping my skin and have no idea how I survived. As I was walking home somehow it crossed my mind that I might have made a mistake while preparing my solution! I know I'm so disoriented. I'm not sure about anything. Before i made a new batch I took out a calculator to check whether I remember the dosage correctly. I was supposed to put 2 mg of Xanax in 30 ml of water but what I did is put 2 pills (of 0.5 mg) (instead of 4 to get 2 mgs). That's how my brain works: it's 2 something. So for teh whoel day I was taking half of what i was supposed to ;(But felt relieved that that was the cause...

 

The day after that I went for my annual hike. I almost returned thinking i wouldn't be able to make it (mentally). But I did. And a kidn of miracle happened: after walking for over 25 kilometers in the sun and fresh air I felt normal for hours! I was even able to make jokes and laugh. Something I completely forgot...

 

On Monday I spent 3 hours in a meeting and felt like I was disintegrating again and losing picture and unable to talk. I should've and could've stopped it but I didn't. And after 3 hours it was not possible to stop the downward spiral. I can't and I shouldn't talk to people for hours, visit friends, go to the cinema, etc.

 

On teh way to work this morning I had a kind of melt down panic attack I haven't had in years, maybe in 10 years. I have no idea how I survived, practiicng new strategies. Digging deep to find them. I have 2 easy days at work before 3 days of time off...

[mammaP]

My dear Bubble, I am so sorry that you are feeling so bad right now. I haven't been catching up with people for a long time because I am feeling so ill myself and thinking that everyone else is doing fine, but you are not fine and struggling like so many of us here. 

I am crying for you right now and wish I could give you a real hug. Remember that this will pass, and you will get those good days back again. xxx

[bubble]

Dear MammaP, as awful as it is, it gives me an opportunity to deal with panic in a new way. I'm recognising thoughts which are catastrophising, projection of present horror into the future for as far as I can see (when my mind is calm I don't even think that far in the future). By labeling them as such I put a distance between me and their fearmongering potential.  It's a different experience than all those years back (says me from a bit more peaceful spot). 

 

I'm reading sites on panic attacks and I must say i still don't believe that panic attacks don't harm you. I still see them as something that doesn't destroy me but makes me very, very fragile for weeks to come. My third full blown panic attack in a month and a half...I'm studying various coping strategies. I agree that panic attacks are a sounding off an alarm by our body and brain which were not able to persuade us to stop doing what we were doing in a more subtle way. So we have to honour that call. My brain desperately needs rest, peace and quiet and I hope I can do a better job of giving it what it needs. 

[bubble]

Just a few notes and a very timely quote from Karen.  

 

 

There's no 'single' answer to depression; it requires changing one's life to a nurturing and supportive life.  It requires us to no longer try to push on through.  It requires us to listen to our body and soul, to create quiet places where our thoughts can come out to us, and where we can then acknowledge and respond to them.  

 

The more I've done this, the more the joy in my life has increased.  This is an immense change from where I once was.

 

The more I've done this, the more the joy in my life has increased.  This is an immense change from where I once was.

I started feeling better after I decided i must quit my job. After I decided to quit the job I started feeling a lot better so could do some work but this again made me feel so bad I think I have to quit. Only the thought of quitting helps, Not sick leave, not days off, not holidays.

 

It's hard for me to tell what is withdrawal and what is a professional burn out and saturation afer 7 years of extremely intense engagement... What are neuroemotions and what is a legitimate need for change...

 

We are working shorter hours tomorrow and then 3 days off. Nowhere near enough but it will help for sure. I will see about more sick leave to make it till Jan 22 when I'm going away for 3 weeks and then reassess again. In the meantime, it's survival...

 

Some more quotes I found: I frequently need Rhi's thread:  http://survivinganti...s-intro-by-rhi/

 

In addition to exhaustion this quote by Alto probably explains what happened to me after 2 small cuts on Lexapro (shortly after cutting Xanax):

 

The reason we say taper one drug at a time is minimize stress on nervous system and permit it to adjust after each drop. For example, tapering antidepressants and benzos at the same time is very destabilizing because when you take the cap off both of them simultaneously, you're going to get increased activation that feeds on itself. 

 

[Petunia]

Dear Bubble,

I just caught up with your thread and I'm so glad you were able to express what you are going through and find some relief. I'm the same as you, when I most need support, I isolate and turn inward, not wanting to reveal my vulnerability.

 

I wish there was something I could say to make this easier for you, it upsets me to think of you working too hard and not being able to get the rest you need to recover. I agree that panic attacks are not harmless, especially in our situation when our NSs are already sensitive. Perhaps they are not harmful to a healthy nervous system, but ongoing panic has got to be destabilizing for people in our situation.

 

Wishing you a restful Christmas

((hugs))

[LexAnger]

Dear Bubble,

 

I feel from lines of your post that you sound you have lots stress from work and also from the thoughts about work. Thinking back about my past two days being much better, it might be due to the same trigger--stress, only that my stress has been significantly reduced since then as that was the starting of the 2 week winter break. I always feel my stress from work is minimal if any, but know I wonder if that the work related stress still play a big part in My WD even I don't feel it with conscious.

 

Three day break for holiday is really short not even enough to make you feel like you are getting a break. I am guessing how sick leave works for you, whether you have a back up for your work when you are away, and if you still think about work even you are at sick leave, or if you worry about your being on sick leave. All these could be hidden stress source if it's for me. The only time I Was completely relaxed is the medical leave of 3 weeks I took for a surgery as then I have no access to company system and I'm not expected for any work or catch up the work I missed during the leave as there was a backup. You said you are the only one working for the family, would you think short term medical leave will do you any better?

 

Also, you mentioned two small cuts of lexapro, did you taper lex also lately or it was something you did years ago?

 

I hope you feel better the soonest day/hour! This can happen any moment like my case, just like the bad moment can come up any time out of blu.

 

i can also confirm with your e peri emcee and belief that long hold eventually will work even bumps along the way which often make us wondering if the long hold is actually hurting us.

 

Love and hugs,

Lex

[LexAnger]

Dear Bubble,

 

How are you feeling these days? I hope you are feeling much better!

You have been in my thoughts as always. as you already saw my most recent positive update and I hope it provides assurance and encouragement to you for great effect of long hold ( thanks so much for assuring me on this rather than taking other direction).

 

Wish you lots healing in the new year and good luck with less stress at works!

 

Lots love and hugs,

Lex

[bubble]

I'm so lazy to update my own thread again

 

I am a lot better! But not sure how things will work when I go back to real life.

 

Yes, your recent 'ressurection' means so much to me!

 

I went back to basics, starting up mindfulness meditation and doing that qi gong exercise Dalsaan introduced us to.

 

I can't believe I was thrown into such deep and dark waters. Catastrophising about the future and all. My most persistent neuroemotion surfaced: desperate need to change job, go somewhere else, do something else. The sheer urgency if that need indicates it's neuroemotion. And then again, this time of the year always makes me feel this way. Although we had lots of sun and I was taking vit D.

 

After isolating and taking things totally slow I feel like getting back in action. Then I hope things will clear out for me and I will be more certain of what it is that I really want and need.

 

I'm still not sure if these are neuroemotions or is this a call to be more true to who I am.

 

But the most important thing is that those dreadful waves of anxiety ebbed away gradually. From a full blown panic attack a week ago I now came to the place of very mild anxiety and don't feel anywhere near so very fragile.

 

Thank you so much for reaching out. It means so much.

 

Lot of love back

[Rachel1963]

Hi Bubble; I just read your thread and it's very inspiring and hopeful for me. I was really worried about you for a bit there but since seeing this latest post I'm happy that you are okay now. I just wanted to tell you that I have held on for dear life to the encouragement you have posted here and there on other's threads. Especially the part about how long you had to wait after your reinstatement made you feel a lot better. This has been very scary for me and your words are helping me to be patient. Can't thank you enough.

 

Just wanted to tell you something funny. Until I read your thread I thought you were a guy, lol! You know why? Because you sound so strong. Also, my work is with abused women and there are a lot of feminist women who work with me. Several of them have had children in their forties, one was 46 so if you are still considering this option, it's not unheard of. Sorry if I'm being too personal.

[Rachel1963]

Hugs to you, Rachel

[Sertramean]

Hi Bubble,

 

Just checking in to wish you well. I haven't been on here for months but noticed you struggled a bit during December. I think withdrawals exacerbate the feelings of SAD. Please promise me, if you haven't already, that you'll get a light-box for next winter. It really could make all the difference. They work miracles for some. Lecture over!

 

Anyway, enough of all that, i'm glad you were feeling better on your last post. There's summer to look forward to now. :-)

[bubble]

Deppressedtothecore asked me questions which actually update my thread so I'm copying them here:

 

That's very kind of you! I just feel like venting.

My main WD symptom for quite a while has been inability to update my thread. Lame joke but really, extreme fatigue continues which is not surprising after waking up every 2 hours for 4 months. There were some improvements recently to waking once and then early.

My main symptoms are mental and hard to describe. It's like my brain becomes a chain that has fallen off a bike and you pedal but nothing catches. It feels like losing your mind and is totally frightening. Especially when it happens 8 months into a hold. But there were periods before that when I felt almost normal.

Now you got more than you bargained for

I can try that remedy but although I ocassionally give in to trying out various supplements it seems time is the (only) healer. My receptors still needs lots of energy for regrowing and get upset if they don't get it.

I think you have just helped me to update my thread just copy paste and that's it.

 

Thanks for asking

I'm slowlyyyy getting better. Sleeping problems are at the moment the most significant WD symptom and they are quite limiting. But I go to work every day.

At the moment I'm on 0.64 mg of xanax and 4.6 mg Lexapro. It's veryyyy frustrating but I don't have plans about further tapering. It will happen anytime my brain gets to the pre-crash withdrawal normal. It feels like it will take a while. I have to work a lot on accepting this but I'm very grateful I was able to go back to work regardless of how awfully difficult it is at times...

 

This crash started after a too fast taper. I went by the same amount and was doing very well. At one point the same amount of reductions became 10 % per month instead of 5 % I did before. I also got impatient and cut Lexapro together with the benzo. The unravelling was gradual. I felt something was wrong for 6 months before I crashed.

Another lesson in long holds even if we are doing well.

[Pokeshaw]

Hi Bubble - just wanted to check in and say hello and send you a hug. I hope you are doing ok.

 

Best ~~

Poke

[bubble]

Hello Poke and thank you for reaching out. It's fery kind of you

 

Unfortunately I'm still struggling and 8 months into the hold the recovery is still very slow. Things are definitely a lot better since the beginning of the year when I couldn't even think about work but every day is still a struggle and my life continues to be very limited. I take pride in going to work every day although I struggle badly with focus and by the afternoon feel so fatigued I can barely orient myself. I stagger back home and very often can't do anything but lie on the couch. I struggle badly with incorporating some physical activity apart from walking to and back from work, eating well, meditating... Everything is a struggle.

 

The biggest problem is trouble sleeping.  I hadn't slept well for ages but since May things took turn for the worse: I started waking up every 2 hours and it has been going on for 4 months now. There's been some improvement lately when I would wake up every 3 hours or even have stretches of 5,6 and at one time 7 hour of uninterrupted sleep. However, it seems the sleep is still of very poor quality since I don't get any feeling of restoration and extreme exhaustion continues. I frequently take sick leaves of a few days or at least one day per week because I just can't manage to last the whole week at work. Things improved in July when I managed to come to work every day but yesterday I had to stay at home because I could barely walk around and anxiety started reaching panic levels at times.

 

This requires new levels of acceptance, digging into the toolkit of tricks to aid sleep but I know only time can make a real difference...

[Altostrata]

Dear bubble, I hope we are seeing signs your sleep is improving.

[AliG]

Bubble.  I'm so sorry that you're still struggling. I understand how hard the withdrawal insomnia can be. I had it for a long time as well . I think what got me through it was the fact that I knew it was temporary, even though I didn't know how long " temporary " was going to be . I was also determined to do it drug free.

My mother has been reliant on sleeping drugs for over 20 years and I knew I didn't want to go that route, particularly after being on antidepressants for so long myself. I wanted to be drug free.

Once the natural sleeping patterns return without relying on anything there is a sense of freedom that is liberating. In fact that applies to all drugs. These days I won't even take a panadol for a headache. I would rather go for a walk or put my legs " up the wall " ( yoga style) while listening to some relaxing music.

 

You are so right - " time heals " but it can seem too slow at times which is where the "acceptance" comes in and like you I had to dig deep and have faith in the process. I know it will turn around for you as well. Only a few months ago , everything was a struggle for me as well. It's amazing how quickly things can turn around. I hope it does for you as well.

Wishing you continued healing.

Ali

[bubble]

Thanks a lot for your support Ali and Alto! It means a lot.

 

Now it least I am structurally better so that I can vent on my thread and benefit from the support.

 

It's so good to hear that you took a turn for the better Ali. Sleeping aids are not an option although it is hard to explain to my GP why I don't want to 'help' myself.

 

But I couldn't help ordering a load of supplements. At one point I stopped taking Taurine and wondered if that caused worsening of symptoms. I started taking MSM in addition to magnesium, probiotic, vit c and taurine but I haven't noticed an effect. Lactium is on its way

 

But best of all, I resumed my old and proven 'fix': walking in the nature after work despite being horribly depleted. I allow myself a short lie in and then walk for 6 km up a hill (and down obviously I don't know if that did the trick but after a night of listening to sleep meditations and watching the clock tick, for the last 3 nights I woke up only once and even had stretches of 5 or 6 uninterrupted hours. It is such a blessing! I'm still veryyyy tired. At weekend when I can afford it I take naps after breakfast and lunch, my concentration and motivation are low but I'm not complaining. I'm getting there.

[ChessieCat]

Hi bubble,

 

Thanks for stopping by my topic and saying hello.  I've noticed that you have been around more and it's been good to see your bubble "eyeball" around the site.   I hope your sleep continues to improve.

[bubble]

Yes Chessie! That in itself is a sign of improvement. It's nice to connect with all friends

[Pokeshaw]

Hello Poke and thank you for reaching out. It's fery kind of you

 

Unfortunately I'm still struggling and 8 months into the hold the recovery is still very slow. Things are definitely a lot better since the beginning of the year when I couldn't even think about work but every day is still a struggle and my life continues to be very limited. I take pride in going to work every day although I struggle badly with focus and by the afternoon feel so fatigued I can barely orient myself. I stagger back home and very often can't do anything but lie on the couch. I struggle badly with incorporating some physical activity apart from walking to and back from work, eating well, meditating... Everything is a struggle.

 

The biggest problem is trouble sleeping.  I hadn't slept well for ages but since May things took turn for the worse: I started waking up every 2 hours and it has been going on for 4 months now. There's been some improvement lately when I would wake up every 3 hours or even have stretches of 5,6 and at one time 7 hour of uninterrupted sleep. However, it seems the sleep is still of very poor quality since I don't get any feeling of restoration and extreme exhaustion continues. I frequently take sick leaves of a few days or at least one day per week because I just can't manage to last the whole week at work. Things improved in July when I managed to come to work every day but yesterday I had to stay at home because I could barely walk around and anxiety started reaching panic levels at times.

 

This requires new levels of acceptance, digging into the toolkit of tricks to aid sleep but I know only time can make a real difference...

Bubble - I definitely understand about 'acceptance'. Thank you for that!

I am still dealing with a bad crash after having that root canal early July. have had some good windows and overall doing better but this week I have been dealing with a similar sleep issue and increase in what I call the 'side effect' symptoms of jaw and muscle clenching, OCD etc. Normally I would make a reduction but not going to do that now.

I think holding is the right thing to do. So, we are HOLDING together!

Sending you ~Healing Holding ~

Best,

 

Poke

[Shep]

Hi, Bubble.

 

I'm sorry to read you're struggling with insomnia, especially since you're also working.

 

But I have faith you'll pull through this. You're strong and you have amazing non-drug coping skills. 

 

I hope the weekend brought you some healing and some much deserved downtime and rest.

 

Sending healing vibes your way. 

[bubble]

Thanky ou so much for visiting Poke and Shep.

 

This might easily be the best compliment I ever got: you have amazing non-drug coping skills! wow. Not at all sure it's true but definitely sounds great and it's very motivating to get more diligent with my practices.

 

Shep has had some more amazing insights into my situation and since it concerns the AD I'm copying it here from my benzo thread. I'm so excited about this idea: that tapering might actually reduce my biggest symptom at the moment: insomnia...

 

Shep, on 15 Sept 2016 - 03:43 AM, said:

 

I do have some questions for you. What are your symptoms now when taking the Escitalopram and when taking Xanax? Is Escitalopram something that you may wish to reduce next instead of the Xanax? 

 

And does the Xanax help at all with your sleep? 

 

Sorry if you've answered this already at some point in your thread, but I'm wondering if the AD may be having an "accelerator" effect and be pushing back against the "brake" effect of the benzo. 

 

Sending healing vibes your way, Bubble. I hope you sleep well tonight. I know this is scary, but you really are doing a great job of getting through this. 

 

Great, great questions indeed!

 

Maybe it is time to challenge my narrative. Narrative is how I describe the way each of us makes sense of our symptoms. my narrative so far has been that after my big crash of almost a year ago my brain just needs time to recover. 9 months into my hold I'm really seeing big improvements. Insomnia is a new symptom. I'd had occasional bouts of it throughout year but never this severe and this long.

 

It started in May. In May and June I would wake up every 2 hours. No problem falling asleep but waking up well before the alarm. In July this pattern finally broke and I started to have 3 hour stretches of sleep and sometimes even longer. In August I had many days when I would only wake up once per night but I still felt extremely tired and hard to function.

 

Some 2 weeks ago things again took a turn for the worse and seeing the change of a slow but positive trend was really disheartening. Now I have many hours at night when I just listen to one sleep meditation after the other. Nights like this are interrupted by nights were I have longer stretches of sleeping. I didn't notice any pattern in why this happens: I walk in the forest for 2 hours on Friday, take melatonin, taurine and magnesium, do mindfulness meditation, go to bed at the same time, wake once per night and early. I'm over the moon because of that although I still feel very tired. I do the same thing on Saturday but this time my sleep is very patchy. The problem is that although I get sleep it is obviously of very poor quality.

 

Since sleep would get better and then worse on a daily basis and there was a slow but steady improvement over months while my drugs stayed the same I really didn't factor them in. In other words, i don't see either xanax or escitalopram playing a role in this.

 

But maybe I should! For the first time in 3 years my xanax is so much lower compared to escitalopram so their interplay must have changed! 3 years ago I was taking 2 mg of xanax and 5 mg of escitalopram. Now it's 0.64 xanax and 4.6 escitalopram. You really might be onto something here Shep!!!

 

My plan has been to bring Xanax to 0.625 mg (where I can halve 0.25 pills to get my doses) and then after a hold start tapering escitalopram. One step away from my target I had to stop due to very severe meltdown and I've been stuck here for almost 9 months (actually almost a year. I stopped tapering at the beginning of November and January was just a small adjustment which seemed to have made things worse so I decided not to touch anything for as long as it takes).

 

So the plan is to reduce xanax from 0.64 to 0.625 and then start tapering escitalopram. Since insomnia is my main and practically only symptom and reducing escitalopram might relieve it I might try doing that sooner rather than later...  ​

[bubble]

This lack of sleep is affecting me so badly. I had to take Tuesday off work. I somehow stumbled through Wednesday and Thursday but it was so painful and it felt as if I was going to fall apart.

 

I had to take a taxi to get from work yesterday because I couldn't handle the thought of taking my usual route. Today I stayed at home again. So wasted. The sleep wasn't so disasterous: waking up at 1, 4 and 7. But I still didn't have the energy to get out of bed. I just had to rest my brain with my eyes closed. Even doing the dishes would make the fatigue intolerable.

 

The good thing in a way is that I'm not so scared of what's going to happen next week. I have some commitments at work but if I continue to feel as I do I will have to stay at home. I can't push myself like this.

 

I came across another quote by Alto which sheds more light on what my next steps should be:

 

Altostrata, on 16 Mar 2014 - 6:26 PM, said:

 

Also, these drugs are tightly intertwined. Reducing one causes the effects of others to increase, then they need to be reduced to maintain some kind of homeostasis.

 

Except that I'm way to fragile to taper so stuck between a rock and a hard place (and waiting for Lactium to be delivered). This has to stop at one point. I just have to wait it out.

[Altostrata]

Oh, dear bubble, take care of yourself, please.

[bubble]

Thank you very much for your concern Alto. Much appreciated.

 

I have a tendency to push myself too hard. I don't know how chronic lack of sleep affects people and whether I should just push through immense fatigue or give myself a break. The truth is probably in between. If I took a leave when the trouble started 5 months ago I would be off work now.

 

I doubt that would faciliate recovery but would cause all sorts of practical problems and make me feel bad.

 

But now it's maybe time to stop proving the point. I'm just a bit worried my GP might lose patience with my self-managing because she might conclude it's not working and demand I see 'professionals'. And my leave depends on her. But I've been blessed with her trust which is actually the most helpful 'intervention' at the moment. I can cope with a lot as long as I don't have to cope with demands of working at the same time..

[LexAnger]

Dear Bubble, I am so very sorry you are struggling so much with the insomnia. I can imagine how difficult to just live with bad insomnia even if you don't have to work. I also always feel the same about being able to endure without the demand from work/job. Giving your only symptom is insomnia and Xanax is the med mainly affecting sleep, I tend to think the idea of holding tapering Xanax a good one. What happens if you hold long on Xanax tapering?

 

hugs,

lex

[bubble]

That's very kind of you Lex and much appreciated. More opinions will definitely shed more light on what's going on and where to go from here.

 

I stopped tapering Xanax last November. I made a small adjustment in January and have been holding for almost 9 months now. Insomnia set in 4 months into the hold.

 

So the theory that Lexapro became more activating once the benzo got reduced seems the most logical. Once I stabilise I will start a very gentle tapering of Lexapro (quite scared of the monster).

 

Thanks again

[bubble]

Despite being scared of what reducing Lexapro will do to me, I'm slowly coming to a decision to try a small cut sooner rather than later. Maybe even tomorrow. Something like 2.5 %. The explanation that what is happening to me now is overactivation as a result of changed balance between the benzo and the AD.

 

I find myself in what Alto wrote here:

 

Altostrata, on 04 May 2012 - 8:34 PM, said:

When you are taking an antidepressant and a benzo, if you are not having significant adverse effects from the benzo, consider tapering the antidepressant first for these reasons:

• Antidepressants are activating while benzos are sedating. The action of the benzo can soften the suffering from antidepressant withdrawal symptoms.
• Conversely, a concurrent antidepressant will not reduce withdrawal symptoms during a benzo taper. With all due respect, Prof. Heather Ashton's suggestion antidepressants might help is misguided, see http://survivinganti...dpost__p__14205
  
  In Dr. Stuart Shipko's e-book Xanax Withdrawal (2012), he addresses the Ashton Manual's apparent recommendation of antidepressants to counter benzo-withdrawal depression, see http://survivinganti...dpost__p__28759
• Often, benzos are prescribed to cover up adverse effects, such as anxiety, insomnia, and akathisia, from an antidepressant. When you remove the benzo, the antidepressant's adverse effects come to the forefront. You then may be in such distress, it is difficult to taper the antidepressant slowly enough to forestall severe withdrawal symptoms.
• Benzo withdrawal before antidepressant withdrawal increases the risk of a difficult antidepressant withdrawal.
  
  Going into an antidepressant taper with GABA downregulated by prior benzo withdrawal is a very perilous strategy. Your nervous system will need GABA to deal with antidepressant withdrawal symptoms.
  
  You may more easily control an antidepressant taper. Fast recovery from antidepressant withdrawal will enable you to tackle your benzo taper.
  
  The people who have the worst withdrawal syndrome are those suffering from both benzo withdrawal and antidepressant withdrawal, because two systems -- serotonin and GABA -- that might help them recover are not functioning due to downregulation.
• If you have already done the hard work of getting off a benzo and then suffer severe withdrawal syndrome from the antidepressant, you are faced with the decision of whether or not to get on the benzo merry-go-round again.
  
  Many doctors treat antidepressant withdrawal symptoms with benzos, although that brings in a whole other set of problems, which you know well. Still, many people can't get through withdrawal without an occasional benzo dose. Consider using benzos very, very sparingly.

And then there are antipsychotics...
To make this a little more confusing, if you are taking an antipsychotic, e.g. Seroquel or Risperdal, you may wish to discontinue that first, because of serious adverse health effects from antipsychotics, such as diabetes.

However, if you're taking an antipsychotic to counter an adverse effect of an antidepressant, such as sleeplessness or agitation, you may want to discontinue the antidepressant first.

Conceivably, one might systematically lower the antidepressant part way, then lower the antipsychotic. If sleep doesn't break up, continue to get off the antipsychotic. If it breaks up, stop lowering the antipsychotic, stabilize, and lower the antidepressant, managing the tapers in a way that preserves sleep.
 

 

I think I will apply the advice regarding antipsychotics: my sleep seems to have broken up, I stopped lowering the benzo 9 months ago, I hope that was enough to stabilize so now it seems to be the time to lower AD...

 

I'm scared to change anything for fear it might get worse. I've been holding for 9 months but maybe I should hold more? Maybe it is time to start tapering... I don't know...But I think I will just test waters with a tiny cut.

[LexAnger]

I'm sorry sorry bubble that things got so complicated for you. I can only hope the new direction works and you get stabilized soon and can move forward in the right path smoothly.

Such a trial and error process in every tiny way all by oneself. It seems so true you never are able to learn enough to know all and early enough.

 

I had all those hits many times along the way, and each made me feel desparate, but eventually they all fade away. Staying calm without creating extra stress is the precious lesson I learned during this rocky journey.

 

I believe in you and You will get through it fine.

 

Hugs,

Lex

[brassmonkey]

Brassmonkey Slide Method. In this case .5% a week for 5 weeks then hold for a few more weeks. That way you'll get 2.5% every 2 months and the symptoms should be minimal.

[bubble]

Thanks a lot Tom. I've already tried it and definitely plan to use it.

 

Given what an ugly beast this Lexapro is and that I'm nowhere near as stable as I wanted to be I will probably hold longer just to see how I deal with it this time round.

 

I remembered the third option I usually advise to others: wait for a bit and then reassess...