bubble: tapering off Lexapro and Xanax

[bubble]

I will probably add this post to this thread on glycine: http://survivinganti...cine-for-sleep/

 

So yesterday I took 2 000 mg of glycine. I'm always very sceptical about how/if any supplement will affect me but I slept from 11 till 3 am. I can't remember when I last had 4 hours of uninterrupted sleep in the first half of the night. I also fell asleep again after early morning waking which also doesn't happen lately.

 

I felt somehow dazed in the morning, window around noon and then unmistakable surge of anxiety. Don't know what to make of this. I think I will repeat the experiment tonight since I've already started with this...

[bubble]

I took the plung 7 days ago and after almost 9 months of holding I reduced Lexapro from 4.6 to 4.5 mg (around 2 %?).

I was soooo scared. I'm still so traumatised by my crash which almost derailed my life and ripped it apart. It wasn't an easy decision and the act itself made me panicy. I don't know why exactly but the first 2 days following the cut were best in a long while: I felt so calm, clear and present. Then the sleep worsened again but 7 days into the cut things are perfectly tolerable to my immense relief.

Sleep is decent, anxiety low or manageable. I feel better in the morning and then after 1 pm fatigue creeps in, I get spaced out and there are various degrees of DP/DR. But it remains manageable especially if I get enough chance to rest. This is even the case now as I'm on a much dreaded business trip abroad. It was a kind of mark after which I was to consider a cut but I did it before... and surviving it.

I actually wanted to save a quote I just came across on DaddyCee's thread:

I today received this from "Blooming Wellness" and I thought it appropriate to post.

"Please remember that the people who healed within a few weeks or months are out and
about having fun. Very few hang around, and understandably so. This is why the
Internet is not inundated with success stories from people who healed within a relatively
short period.

When you read the experiences of our friends who are currently in protracted
withdrawal turmoil, remember that it is possible to heal quickly.

I write this for those of you who are tapering or are in the first year of having completed
your taper. Please don't anticipate the worst. Wait to see how your story unfolds. I can't
tell you how many people freaked out, thinking they would be in withdrawal for "years
and years" only to get better by month 5, 9, 19, 21, etc.

I know some of you see success stories and then end up feeling worse because the
person had a long withdrawal. You think the same will happen to you. I know it's not
easy to endure the pain and other symptoms day after day, month after month.... with
no end in sight. Please don't lose heart. All the time that you are waiting, your healing is
taking place.

This is why there are people who have no "windows" and who end up healing
spontaneously, sometimes over just a few weeks or months. The healing was taking
place all along.

So, please.... see if you can let go of the anticipation, predictions, comparisons, fortune
telling and catastrophizing and just allow your recovery to unfold in the time and
sequence that is best for you and your resilient, self-healing nervous system.
If you are already in protracted withdrawal, please be reassured that even people who
take "years and years" to heal, do inevitably recover. That's the good thing about
withdrawal: no matter how long it seems to be taking, the time will come when the
symptoms will begin to disappear and the healing will become obvious.

So if you are feeling discouraged today, remember this. And see if you can find ways to
self-nurture and manage your time.

Please, please... take time out from the Internet, even from this page. I can't begin to
tell you the obvious differences between the people in withdrawal who find healthy
distractions and those who spend most of their time comparing notes and constantly
analyzing their experience. It is not healthy and it is not the best way to cope.
Nature is a great healer.... bodies of water, mountains, parks, pets... If you are
housebound, you can do a feature corner with house plants, get a water feature...
something... anything!! Gentle hugs. <3"

[AmyK]

That message really spoked to me today, Bubble.

 

I hope you will have an ok day. Sending hugs! ????

[DaddyCee]

Wishing you also a very good day and I hope the sun is shining as it is here in the UK.

 

Peace.

[Newbeginning]

Bubble,

 

Is it possible you developed tolerance to Lexapro after 9 months?

 

I hope you continue to improve. A much needed break after this awful wave.

[Shep]

Beautiful post, Bubble. Thank you for the Blooming Wellness message. 

[moodyblues78]

Hi Bubble

 

I know so well those crashes that wipe all previous progress away throwing as back to square 1. It just takes one bad trigger on a bad moment. The buzzle is all over the floor once again, many of the pieces missing that were just found. Still all progress is not lost. We remember how the pieces were so we find the right order more quickly. Glad to hear to you are back on track.

 

It`s so very hard to keep the balance between holding and not holding for so long that we get too afraid to continue. I went too fast so that I would not get too afraid to continue. Maybe that has made my progress slower, maybe not. Who knows. I admire your patience. I don`t have that in me. My strengths are elsewhere.

 

Keep these updates coming. You are an inspiration to many. Including me. 

[bubble]

Thank you for stopping by Amy, DaddyCee, NewBeginning, Shep and Moody.

 

Oh it was my 3 year anniversary here! I must say that it was marked by regret that after being off of Lexapro and Xanax for 40 days i went on 5 mg and 2 mg (and have so much more to taper now  3 years later I didn't even get to where I could've been had I reinstated less, sensitised my brain more, etc. But I did the best I knew at the time in my panic and urgency to stay functional (and not knowing how important it is to listen to the advice you receive online...)

 

Here is the update 11 days into the cut: For the first 7 days after the cut I didn't feel much. I don't know if it had anything to do with the cut but I actually felt better: my sleep improved and there were quite distinct and longish periods when I would feel calm, clear, present and connected.

 

And then it hit me. It came at night after my business trip. Waking up in the middle of the night with crushing anxiety, actually a kind of mental anguish and terror and feeling of a brain that is like a bike chain that fell off. It's just not there, nothing is catching as I'm turning the pedals in panic. This actually happened after I CT-ed Lexapro and after my previous two reductions so it seems that is a sure sign of Lexapro WD for me. I'm still getting used to its brutality.

 

It didn't last long and I was able to fall asleep again. It happened the next night also but with less intensity and then the 3rd night was free. Day 8 after that anxiety attack made me sooo tired, physically and mentally. I was trying to get myself started till noon, dragged myself to the store and then decided I will just have to give in to lying on the couch with a book. Maybe it was the fatigue from the trip catching up. Sunday was only a bit better but I managed to do my 2 hour nature walk and unpack my suitcase.

 

 Day 10 was the most symptomatic day: brain fog, inner restlessness, spaced out feeling, feeling of inner pain and anguish, very low energy and motivation, flat feeling. And a bit of despair: I only made a 2 % cut and it is hitting me as hard as I can take.

 

I guess I will get familiar with how the symptoms following cuts develop and unfold like I did with Xanax. There is also this sense of excitement (when I'm doing a bit better): I'm doing it, I'm coming down, I'm getting off. Maybe I will actually start feeling better as I get lower and more functional even before i complete my taper. I don't know. The journey is full of surprises but it's best to stay hopeful. And travelling in such great company surely makes all the difference in the world

 

 

Bubble,

 

Is it possible you developed tolerance to Lexapro after 9 months?

 

I hope you continue to improve. A much needed break after this awful wave.

 

I'm somebody who still doesn't believe in the tolerance. Maybe I will start believing but at the moment I still don't. It's just that some other ideas explain what is happening to me better. What makes sense to me in my case is what I quoted a bit further up in my thread Alto writing on antidepressants becoming too activating as a benzo is reduced and thus the brake released. Those 2 drugs built some kind of homeostasis between the two of them and when one of them got so significantly reduced (xanax from 2 to 0.64) Lexapro that stayed close to 5 started causing problems. I see it more as an issue of balance rather than tolerance.

 

I never thought I would be resuming my taper while still quite symptomatic and not yet at what used to be my WD normal. But it seemed that in the changed balance I wasn't going to stabilise more through holding. Actually when I first started cutting after my first hold I started feeling better overall despite WD symptoms following the cuts. I so hope this happens again. I also hope you start improving soon and find what works for you... 

[Shep]

Bubble, you are AWESOME in the way you don't let this illness keep you down, especially with your job. 

 

I do think the stress of your trip is coming into play, though. Are you also dealing with jet lag? That may take awhile to sort out, but you are still a warrior in how you're handling it all. Your walks in nature, the mindfulness practice, and keeping a quiet mind in the face of adversity are building up some amazing resilience.

 

I hope you're able to get some rest and heal from the trip.

 

Sending healing vibes your way. 

[bubble]

You always lift me up Shep It's so nice to get such compliments. I sometimes feel bad about not doing more. Keep postponing my attempt at resuming the yoga class but when you write it like this it seems I do as much as I can.

 

No jet lag this time. I was very mindful to keep everything as gentle as possible and allow myself as much rest as possible: went to my room to switch off during coffee breaks, etc.

 

I'm trying to rest as much as possible. But like everybody I also end up being quite isolated and it's always a matter of balancing downtime with gentle activities and interaction which has a potential to be recharging and allow us that much needed feeling that we live and not only survive.

[Altostrata]

Good to hear you're feeling more confident about reductions, bubble. You've been so kind to others through your troubles.

[Newbeginning]

I was wondering how you're doing Bubble? Another person who also started getting symptoms after holding for 6 months told me she did better after a cut. It's only been 11 days for her though, and she's cutting a benzo. Yet another friend tapering Effexor told me that she's feeling much better holding for 2 months than she did holding for 4 months. In her case, this has been a pattern for the last 4 months.

 

SO it seems to me that for whatever reason some of us do not do well with long holds. Tolerance is a possibility, but could just be that some brains/bodies don't do well with long holds.

 

Whether the solution to long hold withdrawal is to updose, cut very little or ride out the wave, I have no idea. I've seen plenty of evidence pro and against each of those approaches (meaning both positive and negative experiences with each approach).

 

It sounds like in your case it's been up and down so far. Sadly, sometimes we can only tell what will happen by enduring it for at least a month.

 

Reading your thread, I empathize so much with making bad decisions due to the need to remain functional. I, like others, admire your ability to persevere and remain functional and nurture yourself, even when you're most symptomatic. You're an example to me and many others.

 

Don't know if you're a believer, but I'm praying for you, hoping you will have relief soon

[bubble]

Aww that's so sweet of you Newbeginning! At the moment I'm not much of a believer but sometimes all I can do is pray...

As a matter of fact I've been thinking about you also. It's nice how you gathered all that 'body of evidence'. That's all we have: each other's experiences. I was actually thinking whether you could also try a very small cut and see what happens. I think we are pretty safe with such small cuts. Things can't get out of control and we can get an answer to the question of what to do: hold or cut.

My experiment isn't really pleasant at the moment. For the first 7 days after the cut I felt better than in a long while. Then middle of the night terror atacks started and the levels of discomfort during the day started increasing. Day 14 was the worst with thick brain fog and feeling of being spaced out. I guess it's a kind of DP/DR: when you feel like you can't make a connection with people and things and feel outside your body. Scary stuff.

My productivity at worked dropped further. It was particularly awful when our secretary pointed out to me how I not misspelt a word but used a totally different one: instead of airport I wrote something like aquatic

It will be easier once I get to know the pattern (if I decide to continue with tapering at this point). With my previous xanax taper I knew I would feel increased anxiety after day 3. It would stay like that for 3 days and then abate gradually over the next 4 days.

I hope these symptoms have reached their peak and will start abating soon. But I can't help thinking what if they continue to escalate. Yesterday was also hard: internal anguish and feeling of great wobbliness.

But I didn't have to sit at the office. Instead I was picking corn in the sun for hours. At times I would get calmer and that was such blessing. And then the return of symptoms despite that calming activity was really demoralising.

After that I went to the pool and swam slowly for an hour. My mind was a lot more relaxed after I kept my hands busy. I also went to sauna which is said to stimulate the vagus nerve and always calms me down. I slept a lot which is again a blessing since my main symptom before the cut was insomnia.

I lasted over two full weeks at work and didn't struggle too badly except for the last few days. So as you say it's up and down: some things are better some are worse. It's a great feeling to be reducing again after such a long time but also demoralising that such a small reduction is causing such big waves. I read how Brassmonkey actually started feeling better as he cut. Did you see that post? I will try to find it...

We'll keep in touch It's a lot easier not to be alone in all of this...

[bubble]

I'm on my phone so it's hard to copy but Brassmonkey's post is on Lex1992's thread from 4 Oct.

[AliG]

Bubble. I sense there is some regret for you as there is for a lot of us,  but I always think of this quote by Maya Angelou.

 

" I did then what I knew how to do. Now that I know better, I do better. "

 

I think you're doing great !   

Hugs,

Ali

[bubble]

That's very kind of you Ali! And you are right: I'm filled with regret at the moment, more than I would care to admit.

 

Up until now I believed that I will be able to come off in time to try and have a child. Had I reinstated less I might have a chance. I still can't accept that it won't happen...

 

A very timely and true quote

[AliG]

Don't give up hope . Anything is possible. It can still happen ...     

[bubble]

You are right Ali. I actually can't accept that as long as there is some hope... I'm 39 and a half so I guess I still have a few years of hope...

[Shep]

I completely agree with Ali. We don't know what our futures hold now.

 

But what we do know, the part that is a certainty, is that our futures are going to be so much better, however our lives unfold. And we will most likely surround ourselves with new people, new experiences, and with a new - and profound - emotional awareness and insightfulness. 

 

My mother was 40 when I was born and that was 48 years ago, a time when it was almost unheard of for a woman to give birth so late in life. Now it's much more common. And children can come into your life in other ways, such as adoption, foster care, and spending time with them in various charitable ways such as Big Sister type programs. There are way more children who need caring adults in the world than there are caring adults who will find the time and love to spend with children. 

 

Don't give up hope, Bubble. I really believe you will have a beautiful life after this. 

[bubble]

You are so sweet Shep and I often think about your message of hope (of which I've become too short of after everything that happened last year).

 

I guess there is some biological imperative behind this. Rationally I know there are so many children who need parents and we can always adopt but something in me can't come to peace with that. Yet. Also I've become quite bitter around kids and young mothers, my friends and colleagues lately. And I don't like that...

 

I will find a way of coping with it... thanks so much for this reminder of the promises life keeps holding for us as long as we stick around

 

And I'm awaiting your update

[brassmonkey]

I haven't closely read through the last few days here, but here's the post Bubble mentioned.

 

Hi DFP-- Something I have been noticing while reading this thread is the belief that things should be improving on a day by day week by week basis. That there should be a discernible cause and effect from each adjustment.  We would all love for that to be true, it would make WD much easier and controllable.  This is an incredibly long slow painful process in which time is the only thing that really works and patterns of improvement are almost nonexistent.  There's an overall pattern, which is unique to each individual, referred to as WDnormal that is the best method for tracking progress.  Here are a couple of explanations I've posted several times throughout the forum:

 

I see WDnormal as the overall baseline of where you are in general. The place you are when you're not feeling good, but you're not feeling bad. Sorta a rolling average of the past couple of months between the windows and waves.  Watching the level of WDnormal is a good indicator that things are improving.  Over time you should be seeing a raising of the standard for WDnormal.  So how you're feeling now is better than say six months ago. It changes very slowly but is a really good indicator.

 

 Many people have the idea that stability is feeling good again, when in fact it's feeling the same level of blah day after day with no big swings to the better or bad. When a person does a drop in dose there will be a corresponding increase in WD symptoms over the next few days.  These symptoms will resolve themselves over the following several weeks and return the person to a slightly raised baseline of discomfort. The time frame and severity are dependent on a huge number of factors and end up being unique to each individual.  But the pattern remains.  This is why paying attention to your WDnormal is very important.  It is also referred to as listening to your body.  After a drop in dose and the symptoms have resolved to WDnormal the person then should wait a couple of more weeks to let things really settle out (there are a lot of little unfelt changer still going on) before considering doing their next drop.

 

During that waiting time people may think that they're not doing anything and want to get on with it.  When in fact doing nothing is very proactive.  It's those little unfelt things that need to be finished up before the next step can be taken.  It's letting the glue harden, the paint dry, the cement cure.  The things that need to be complete before the path is safe to walk on again.  If these details are ignored then they start to pile up and compound each other, then somewhere down the line the foundation slips out from under us and the whole thing collapses.

 

 I posted this to DesertChild several weeks ago where I talk about poopout, stabilization and WDnormal.  It gives a bit of my background.

 

"You call it withdrawal normal, as said above when you have reached a base-line which is as good as it gets for you. Now I guess, I can start to think about that. "

 

As good as it gets for that moment.  WDnormal is a sliding scale of reference for tracking overall improvements in ones condition. As you're learning this is a very slow process and at first changes in WDnormal are very small and slow in coming. As time passes and ones body heals those changes become more pronounced and more frequent. But it can be frustratingly slow at first.

 

I'll bore you with a bit of my history so you can see how I came up with the idea of WDnrmal.  Many people find the time frames upsetting but I truly advocate going very slowly.   I'm one of the "lucky ones" in that I have only been on one drug, all be it for 23 years now, which makes things a lot easier to sort out. I originally started on Paxil for Spontaneous Outbursts of Violent Anger and it really helped.  In reality I should have been through counseling instead of being drugged, but that's an irrelevant part of the story.  After many years on the drug it wasn't working as well so I updosed.  That helped sorta but a few years later I needed to updose again.  That helped for a few months, then I started down hill.  It took a number of years and becoming totally messed up to figure out I was in severe tolerance, or what we lovingly call "poopout".

 

Just making the decision to do something about it was a terrifying experience but after 18 years of being drugged, my marriage on the rocks and about to lose everything (probably even my life) I decided to do something about it.     Again I was lucky and found a site called PaxilProgress before I made any changes. That started the entire process.  I liked the idea of the 10% taper, but made a couple of modifications to make it gentler, and started with that.

 

Nothing happened. I felt as bad as I had been.  Six weeks passed and I did my second drop. Nothing happened, except maybe I felt a bit worse.  This pattern kept up for about 18 months.  When one day it hit me, "I hadn't felt as c***** for the past several weeks".  It took another six months before I again noticed that things had improved.  During this whole time all I could do was move doggedly forward making the best of it and learning to put up with and work around the symptoms.  I really had no other choice.

 

A little after two years I had my first widow.  It lasted about fifteen minutes, and it wasn't until several hours later I realized it had happened.  That was the point that it sunk in that the process really did work.  Except for that window the rest of the time was heavy brain fog, DR, no short term memory, dizziness, all the symptoms we know and loath.  Another window opened briefly a few months later, and I noticed that I wasn't as "out of it" all the time and that I was gaining a little control over the symptoms by Acknowledging them, Accepting them and letting them Float off as I went about my life.

 

Finally after three years of tapering I felt like I was making progress. I could see that I was improved from where I had started even though I knew I was by no means better.  I also could see that I was doing better that I was just six months before.  I realized that my "base line of feeling like c***" was improving or how my WD symptoms normally felt was improving.  Hence WDnormal.

 

These last two years, it will be a total of five this fall, have brought fairly steady improvement.  I can see improvements on a month over month and sometimes week over week basis.  To the point that many people would say I'm back to normal by the way I function.  I know I'm not because I am still taking the drug and will be for the next several months. During my time on and tapering off of paxil I have learned a huge amount about myself, life and how to deal with things.  

 

​I feel like I'm rambling now, but I hope this helps explain some of the process and you don't find it too disheartening because of the time frames involved.

"You call it withdrawal normal, as said above when you have reached a base-line which is as good as it gets for you. Now I guess, I can start to think about that. "

 

As good as it gets for that moment.  WDnormal is a sliding scale of reference for tracking overall improvements in ones condition. As you're learning this is a very slow process and at first changes in WDnormal are very small and slow in coming. As time passes and ones body heals those changes become more pronounced and more frequent. But it can be frustratingly slow at first.

 

I'll bore you with a bit of my history so you can see how I came up with the idea of WDnrmal.  Many people find the time frames upsetting but I truly advocate going very slowly.   I'm one of the "lucky ones" in that I have only been on one drug, all be it for 23 years now, which makes things a lot easier to sort out. I originally started on Paxil for Spontaneous Outbursts of Violent Anger and it really helped.  In reality I should have been through counseling instead of being drugged, but that's an irrelevant part of the story.  After many years on the drug it wasn't working as well so I updosed.  That helped sorta but a few years later I needed to updose again.  That helped for a few months, then I started down hill.  It took a number of years and becoming totally messed up to figure out I was in severe tolerance, or what we lovingly call "poopout".

 

Just making the decision to do something about it was a terrifying experience but after 18 years of being drugged, my marriage on the rocks and about to lose everything (probably even my life) I decided to do something about it.     Again I was lucky and found a site called PaxilProgress before I made any changes. That started the entire process.  I liked the idea of the 10% taper, but made a couple of modifications to make it gentler, and started with that.

 

Nothing happened. I felt as bad as I had been.  Six weeks passed and I did my second drop. Nothing happened, except maybe I felt a bit worse.  This pattern kept up for about 18 months.  When one day it hit me, "I hadn't felt as c***** for the past several weeks".  It took another six months before I again noticed that things had improved.  During this whole time all I could do was move doggedly forward making the best of it and learning to put up with and work around the symptoms.  I really had no other choice.

 

A little after two years I had my first widow.  It lasted about fifteen minutes, and it wasn't until several hours later I realized it had happened.  That was the point that it sunk in that the process really did work.  Except for that window the rest of the time was heavy brain fog, DR, no short term memory, dizziness, all the symptoms we know and loath.  Another window opened briefly a few months later, and I noticed that I wasn't as "out of it" all the time and that I was gaining a little control over the symptoms by Acknowledging them, Accepting them and letting them Float off as I went about my life.

 

Finally after three years of tapering I felt like I was making progress. I could see that I was improved from where I had started even though I knew I was by no means better.  I also could see that I was doing better that I was just six months before.  I realized that my "base line of feeling like c***" was improving or how my WD symptoms normally felt was improving.  Hence WDnormal.

 

These last two years, it will be a total of five this fall, have brought fairly steady improvement.  I can see improvements on a month over month and sometimes week over week basis.  To the point that many people would say I'm back to normal by the way I function.  I know I'm not because I am still taking the drug and will be for the next several months. During my time on and tapering off of paxil I have learned a huge amount about myself, life and how to deal with things.  

 

​I feel like I'm rambling now, but I hope this helps explain some of the process and you don't find it too disheartening because of the time frames involved.

[bubble]

Thanks a lot Brass! It's a very interesting experience that a number of us have to consider in order to make sense of what we are going through and try to find a way out.

[ChessieCat]

Hi bubble,

 

"It was particularly awful when our secretary pointed out to me how I not misspelt a word but used a totally different one: instead of airport I wrote something like aquatic"

 

This comment really jumped out at me.  I've been having a similar experience with typing.  I'm a professional typist and it is my natural ability, and doing it for over 43 years.  It was not being able to type just after I first arrived at SA which convinced me to updose and the result was that within 4 hours I was able to type.

 

Recently I've noticed that after I have typed something I read over it and find that I have typed a wrong word.  Like you, not a spelling mistake, a completely different word.  It's happened quite often so I am sure it is related to withdrawal and what you have posted seems to confirm that.

 

On a lighter note, I can recall my teacher (early 1970s) who was teaching Indonesian was reading some homework on the train and she had trouble keeping from laughing out really loudly.  The student had written that the traffic in Indonesia is erotic, instead of erratic.  I hope that gives you a laugh too!

[Shep]

Bubble and Chessie, I also have problems replacing one word for another, and I see that a lot here and when I was active on benzo buddies. It's very, very common during withdrawal. I still have problems using "way" instead of "why" and "if" instead of "it". 

 

It's getting a lot better, but I still feel the need to double and triple check everything I write. 

 

This article on aphasia explains a bit about what may be happening in the brain to cause this. I found comfort in that article because it states, "The difficulties of people with aphasia can range from occasional trouble finding words to losing the ability to speak, read, or write; intelligence, however, is unaffected."

 

The fact that intelligence is unaffected is great news. Also, unlike people who have structural brain damage, our damage is functional, so it's just temporary. 

 

Just to prove it, I'm now the main proofreader at work. I get to proofread all of our website articles. I couldn't have done that two years ago after going cold turkey off a z-drug and Halcion and then a rapid taper off Klonopin. At that point, I could barely speak. So we'll heal from this, no double.   

[bubble]

Thank you for stopping by dear Shep and for your relentless optimism. I really needed it today.

 

I've read everything you posted to other members and find it all very helpful as I'm heaving under a massive load of anxiety for a week. At least and it's not actually a small thing I've been sleeping better.

 

My situation at the moment and the patterns it displays still don't make sense. It seems that I started recovering from my cut and was then hit by a premenstrual hormonol storm. I managed to drag through work with immense difficulty and struggled hard to see beauty in my life. I'm just stubbornly clinging to hope and think about your experience and that of other warriors.

 

I'm expecting your weekly update although I don't have what to say. What you share with the rest of us reflects so much strength and clarity and I hope your progress continues.

 

Thank you also Chessie to add humour to this affliction.

[Shep]

 

 

Just to prove it, I'm now the main proofreader at work. I get to proofread all of our website articles. I couldn't have done that two years ago after going cold turkey off a z-drug and Halcion and then a rapid taper off Klonopin. At that point, I could barely speak. So we'll heal from this, no double.   

 

 

Thanks for your kind words, Bubble.  I'm chuckling because of the typo I just left in the above. I wrote "double" instead of "doubt". And I was being so very, very careful with my words due to what we're discussing. 

 

Oh well. I still say we'll heal and be able to find our words. Eventually. No DOUBT. 

[scallywag]

bubble, I've been having difficulty with reading. A recent example: I read an email dinner invitation from a relative several times to see if he had mentioned the time.  For the life of me I couldn't see the time in this 2-sentence message,

"Hope you can join us at six. N, P, D, & B are expected to be in attendance."

[Altostrata]

Happens all the time to me!

[bubble]

Shep, I thought you did it intentionally

 

Scally, maybe it was hard because we expect times to be written in a number and there were many names... But I also have to read such information several times and double check I got it right and sometimes I still miss it.

 

And it happens to Alto I don't worry about that actually although it can make you very insecure. But there are other symptoms which are far more scary.

[apace41]

Shep, I thought you did it intentionally

 

So did I, Bubble!

 

LOL.

 

 

Andy

[bubble]

I was going to write a positive update. And then I got slammed down by a horrible fatigue and feeling of being wired, over excited, overwhelmed, dead tired but unable to relax and rest. Such fatigue that I could hardly get out of bed for 2 days.

I blamed it on overdoing things when I was feeling better. But after struggling with it for 5 days it just occurred to me that this could actually be withdrawal after the cut I made 15 days ago. This was my second cut so I’m totally unfamiliar with the pattern. And if this is withdrawal it is so different from the first cut WD. The first time I actually felt better after the cut! The symptoms occurred 7 days after and took the form of horrible terror waking at night and then high anxiety over the next 5 days and feeling like my brain was shutting down. So after this didn’t happen the second time I thought I was in the clear. But it just means I’m still getting to know the beast and that it has multiple faces.

I don’t cut by 10 % every 30 days. I cut by 2 % after 24 days. The reason I didn’t hold even longer is because I started being wide awake and alert in the middle of the night again (like something was keeping me awake…) my guess was Lexapro.

I don’t even remember the positive things I wanted to write but I will give it a try.

Even with this over drive that my brain is in I can sleep. My sleep has definitely improved after 5 months of horrible insomnia.

I was so happy that I managed to go to work every day for one month and 3 weeks. On many of those days going to work actually felt pleasant and not a painful struggle. There were times when I worked with gusto.

I was able to give 2 30 minute presentations and involve my motivation and emotions in them. It is actually the anniversary of my big breakdown, meltdown, crash – the worst experience of my life on a bus on a highway in the middle of Germany with an airport to navigate on my long way to the safety of home with my brain firing in all directions and then closing down amidst mortal terror that made me want to run of the bus screaming for help.

I gave one more presentation after that, at the beginning of December last year and for a few months after that I thought and felt like I would never again be able to do it. And for 6 months I really couldn’t. And then when I tried, it was too early and it set off another round of high anxiety and DP/DR. Doing those two presentations was major. It was very close to what I used to do.

After almost a year my bad neuroemotions started to fade too: I was incredibly insecure and unsure of things. So I just kept from voicing any opinions. It’s incredible that I finally started feeling and seeing things more clearly or clearly enough and feeling strong enough to stand behind them. I even saw glimpses of my much missed humour.

I was also able to meet a few friends. I even went to a theater after over a year and could actually feel pleasure and a sense of resurrection at being in the world of ‘normal’ people. I struggled but I was able to do it and even enjoyed it. I also went for a 6 hour hike (just because my dear 80 year old guide only gets tired after 10 hours of walking…). I went swimming for an hour once a week followed by sauna for 5 weeks and loved working in the field harvesting corn by hand. So when the symptoms didn’t appear after the first 7 days like the first time but after 10 and in a different way I actually blamed this bad wave on all those activities and overdoing it.

The thought that this is most likely WD is very comforting. Somehow a lot more comforting than the explanation that I brought it on by overexerting myself. WD explains why it didn’t go away after 5 days and why it was so extreme: I couldn’t get out of bed on Saturday and Sunday (good timing it was). I was barely able to fix some quick meals. Monday at work was just battling with horrible anxiety and not sure if I was going to make it. Day 5 is definitely better and it was a public holiday. The fatigue, especially behind the eyes is still strong but I managed to do some housework and finally leave the flat and go for a very gentle walk through autumn leaves, sitting in the sun by the stream.

I have a major trip coming in 5 days, a long distance flight with 7 hour time difference… Scary but I’m coping (with the idea).

I see a big shift in how I handle stressful situations and my WD anxiety and other WD states: I have more confidence that I will deal with things, that when my worst nightmare happens (that brain shutting horror) – I will be able to deal with it and survive it. (And I think of Shep a lot J

And calm.com is my best friend at the moment. Just playing body scans to cool down my brain…

[apace41]

Bubble,

 

Congratulations!  You were going to write a positive post, then thought you couldn't, and then DID after all! 

 

Even though you hit a rough patch (whether wave or overexertion or a combination) you are able to clearly see the many improvements that have taken place.  You are surviving and, to a meaningful degree, thriving.

 

I see this all as very positive.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[bubble]

Thanks a lot for stopping by Andy!

 

What can I say? You are right I am indeed surviving and sometimes thriving. I hope you are seeing improvements as well.

 

I'm still learning about this withdrawal and how it will manifest. Today is day 16 and I hope the worst is behind me. I managed to go to work and be fairly functional. I had a very quick exchange of windows and waves the whole day: feeling stable and clear one moment and then getting lost in a thick fog and a sense of unsteadiness. There were also very disturbing moments of inner restlessness.

 

A very 'interesting' new symptom was inability to remember certain words and struggling with finding words in general.

 

But I'm so relieved the day is over, I survived and things feel to be on the mend...

[Shep]

 

I see a big shift in how I handle stressful situations and my WD anxiety and other WD states: I have more confidence that I will deal with things, that when my worst nightmare happens (that brain shutting horror) – I will be able to deal with it and survive it. (And I think of Shep a lot J

 

 

Thank you for the compliment, my friend, but I don't have near the hectic schedule you have! Lol! I wouldn't survive what all you're able to manage. 

 

You're doing great, Bubble, and your attitude is great, too. Like Andy observed, your post was indeed positive - even when you're trudging through the dark mire, you still manage a smile. And that's a beautiful skill that will serve you well. 

 

 

 

 

 

I blamed it on overdoing things when I was feeling better. But after struggling with it for 5 days it just occurred to me that this could actually be withdrawal after the cut I made 15 days ago. This was my second cut so I’m totally unfamiliar with the pattern. And if this is withdrawal it is so different from the first cut WD. The first time I actually felt better after the cut! 

 

 

You're doing a difficult balancing act, weighing what is withdrawal against what is being caused by work and recreational activities. 

 

When we have to work during a taper, it's like we're moving through an obstacle course that's constantly changing. The lights are being turned off and on, there are drawbridges that rise and come down without warning, there are sudden gusts and headwinds that knock us completely off course.

 

And it's often almost impossible to attribute it to that one thing - the taper or work and other life-activities. 

 

But you really do a good job of arming yourself for battling and surviving the obstacles, wherever they're coming from.

 

The important thing is learning how to nurture your CNS from stress that comes in any form.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I see a big shift in how I handle stressful situations and my WD anxiety and other WD states: I have more confidence that I will deal with things, that when my worst nightmare happens (that brain shutting horror) – I will be able to deal with it and survive it.

 

Yes! That's it exactly. That confidence is a large part of the "transformative" process of all of this. It's the result of doing all of the hard work you're doing with your non-drug coping skills. We can come out of this journey much more confident and alive. 

 

Very nice, Bubble. I wish you well on your upcoming travels. Do schedule some downtime for yourself, and let us know how you are. 

 

Sending healing vibes your way. 

[brassmonkey]

"And it's often almost impossible to attribute it to that one thing - the taper or work and other life-activities. "

 

I've found that it's not necessary and often counter productive to try and attribute every time I'm feeling bad to a specific cause. It takes a lot of time and energy I would rather put toward quality of life issues. I'm feeling bad in the first place and I have to do XXX to counter it. It doesn't matter if it's because of work, life stress,or such, it's all based on or amplified by WD and it all has to be handled.  Knowing what triggers a reaction is very helpful.  However,constantly analyzing every feeling to get to the root cause is a WD symptom in itself, that is blocking us from getting to over all acceptance.  Which is so important for moving forward.  Also the variety of things we will experience is constantly changing minute by minute (as it also does in normal people, we just micro-focus on it) making daily attributions futile. Making the overall trends of WDnormal the best sign posts we have for recovery.

 

BTW, I'm loving your updates Bubble, and I'm very excited by how you're improving.

 

(((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))

[bubble]

 

Thank you for the compliment, my friend, but I don't have near the hectic schedule you have! Lol! I wouldn't survive what all you're able to manage. 

 

 

I could almost see a smile on your face Shep as you were writing this I picture you walking to work during DP/DR as you describe it and I think to myself: I wouldn't be able to survive that!

 

I had to learn to cut myself slack. Lots of slack. Now it seems many years ago but for  along time I would compare myself with others and worrying about my performance. People around me don't know what I'm going through. And for many different reasons I can't tell them. Not yet. My assessment is that it would have more disadvantages than advantages. Since I'm running with people with healthy legs and my leg is broken and they don't know it they would tend to blame me for being slow and unsteady. I would also feel forced to keep up at the expense of my wellbeing. So I'm doing a balancing act here as well. I have learnt to just rest at times when I need it and allow myself to be carried by other people and swim on the waves of my past achievements. I even think that when I shut down and keep to myself I might come across as wise and pensive. If there are no outputs at that time my boss and colleagues might assume that I'm investigating something. So there is a whole, at times very complex, 'art' around my surviving at work.

 

And ensuring downtime is key and a must.

 

I realised that there is a possibility to take a month of unpaid leave and since my husband is working in Asia I'm going there just before Christmas also taking 3 weeks of my annual leave. My boss didn't like it at all but I just decided she will have to live with it. This will make almost 2 months off work, something I haven't had in over 8 years. It's an incredible luxury and I'm just counting days. I will have an opportunity to experience what is WD like when you don't6 have to go to work.

 

 

"And it's often almost impossible to attribute it to that one thing - the taper or work and other life-activities. "

 

I've found that it's not necessary and often counter productive to try and attribute every time I'm feeling bad to a specific cause. It takes a lot of time and energy I would rather put toward quality of life issues. I'm feeling bad in the first place and I have to do XXX to counter it. It doesn't matter if it's because of work, life stress,or such, it's all based on or amplified by WD and it all has to be handled.  Knowing what triggers a reaction is very helpful.  However,constantly analyzing every feeling to get to the root cause is a WD symptom in itself, that is blocking us from getting to over all acceptance.  Which is so important for moving forward.  Also the variety of things we will experience is constantly changing minute by minute (as it also does in normal people, we just micro-focus on it) making daily attributions futile. Making the overall trends of WDnormal the best sign posts we have for recovery.

 

BTW, I'm loving your updates Bubble, and I'm very excited by how you're improving.

 

(((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))

 

These are very good points Brass and something I'm still learning how to deal with. I suspect this all boils down to my control issues which hinder the acceptance process.

 

But controlling means so much to me  As you say, if I know that how I'm feeling was caused by X I know I should avoid/minimise/stay away from X. I just feel so much less helpless knowing or thinking I know what is going on. I don't have a sense that it increases my suffering. I feel it's a form of mindfulness by which I acknowledge my symptoms and then accept them and float with them (if that will sound familiar to you  When the symptoms are particularly brutal it feels like just getting in touch with them more closely gives me the energy required to keep my head above the water and knowing the cause calms me down. I think I don't analyse every feeling. Just those that are so extreme that prevent me from doing anything else.

 

But I will definitely be more mindful about this. There might be a big room for improvement there.

 

Day 18 and things continue to improve on the WD front... Just have to take things slow and easy...