Moderator Emeritus Petunia Posted March 10, 2014 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 10, 2014 Thank you for updating Bubble, I'm so glad you are not suffering from your recent cut. Actually, you sound very well I'm also regularly surprised by my orders from iHerb, sounds like where you live is a lot like it is here - small bottles, low amounts and very weak formulas, probably 4 times the price too. I've run out of energy today, so no more words from me. (hugs) Petu. I'm not a doctor. My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one. My Introduction Thread Full Drug and Withdrawal History Brief Summary Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects 2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010 Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal) May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins. Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens. Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days. April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close. VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from? VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made? VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes? VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects? VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus bubble Posted March 10, 2014 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 10, 2014 Dear Petu, I see you've been incredibly active so time for you to have a rest and I look forward to reading what you wrote later big hug Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2 2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013) Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg. 2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days afterreinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours 28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr 2015 1 mg, 25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64 Xanax 9 month hold 24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26 Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. Link to comment
lobster Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I hope you are well it sounds like you're not suffering to much from your recent cut I hope you continue to feel well :-) Lexapro 1 1/8 mg and 10 mg Propranolol. I jumped down to 2.5 mg lexapro from 5 mg on oct 2 where I had been for 7 months and went from 2.5 mg to 1 1/8 mg not sure when maybe around nov 2 went back up to 2.5 mg December 30 . May 13 small cut lexapro 2.5 mg down to 2.4 mg 9/4/14 dropped 8.33% to 2.2 mg 10/13/14 dropped to 2mg lexapro. Back up to 2.2 mg 10/15/14. Dropped to 2 mg lexapro 11/26/14. Dropped 10% to 1.8 mg lexapro 1/11/15. 2/23/15 . Cut of 5%. 3/11/15 cut of 5% 5/3/15 cut of 5% 6/3/15 cut of 5% 7/19/15 cut of 5%. Continued small cuts of 5% every six weeks or so untill October 8th 2016 ,last dose . Last dose was 0.8mg. Currently taking 10 mg propranolol in the afternoon. 1400mg fish oil. 250 mg magnesium, 250 mg L-Taurine, 500 mg Tumeric. 40 mg Zocore simvistatin. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus bubble Posted March 10, 2014 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 10, 2014 oh lobster, it soooo nice having people who understand and ask about how I'm doing! usually everybody just thinks: oh look how lazy she is and so on ;( Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2 2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013) Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg. 2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days afterreinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours 28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr 2015 1 mg, 25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64 Xanax 9 month hold 24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26 Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. Link to comment
Nikki Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Bubble I love to hear from you, but I do understand the coming on the site too much thing. I've done it myself. HUgs Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/ Paxil 1997-2004 Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries Lexapro 40mgs Lexapro taper (2years) Imipramine Imipramine and Celexa Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each 45mgs. Serzone 50mgs. Imipramine Link to comment
moodyblues78 Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Great to here from you bubble I have not been around here much lately. I spent way too much time here and it made me feel worse. I`ve been very sensitive to tressors. 08 Cipralex 10mg for about 6 months. 11-12 Cipralex 20mg. Unsuccesful WD. 12-13 Zoloft 100mg with Diazepam 10-20mg as needed for anxiety.Fall 13 Tapering Zoloft 100->50->25->12,5->0 in 2,5 months and CT Diazepam. 12/24/13 RI Zoloft 12,5mg. 1/21/14 11mg 3/18/14 9,9mg 2/18/14 8mg 4/22/14 7,6mg 5/5/14 7,2mg 5/12/14 -> cutting 0,5mg per week, holding when necessary. 8/18/14 -> cutting 0,25mg per week holding when necessary. 10/20/2014 -> cutting 0,1mg per week, holding when necessary.12/28/2014 Jump! Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus bubble Posted March 10, 2014 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 10, 2014 Great to here from you bubble I have not been around here much lately. I spent way too much time here and it made me feel worse. I`ve been very sensitive to tressors. I've noticed you haven't been around and was thinking you were feeling better and you are, through acceptance... I will have to practice some acceptance now. Feeling like angry bubble about to burst. and I actually did burst in a (controlled) way but soooo sensitive and angry. I think it is withdrawal finally kicking in. It will be interesting... Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2 2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013) Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg. 2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days afterreinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours 28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr 2015 1 mg, 25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64 Xanax 9 month hold 24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26 Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. Link to comment
lobster Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Im sorry you're not feeling great.you will get threw it one day at a time slow and steady wins the race :-) Lexapro 1 1/8 mg and 10 mg Propranolol. I jumped down to 2.5 mg lexapro from 5 mg on oct 2 where I had been for 7 months and went from 2.5 mg to 1 1/8 mg not sure when maybe around nov 2 went back up to 2.5 mg December 30 . May 13 small cut lexapro 2.5 mg down to 2.4 mg 9/4/14 dropped 8.33% to 2.2 mg 10/13/14 dropped to 2mg lexapro. Back up to 2.2 mg 10/15/14. Dropped to 2 mg lexapro 11/26/14. Dropped 10% to 1.8 mg lexapro 1/11/15. 2/23/15 . Cut of 5%. 3/11/15 cut of 5% 5/3/15 cut of 5% 6/3/15 cut of 5% 7/19/15 cut of 5%. Continued small cuts of 5% every six weeks or so untill October 8th 2016 ,last dose . Last dose was 0.8mg. Currently taking 10 mg propranolol in the afternoon. 1400mg fish oil. 250 mg magnesium, 250 mg L-Taurine, 500 mg Tumeric. 40 mg Zocore simvistatin. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus bubble Posted March 10, 2014 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 10, 2014 thanks lobster I don't expect to feel great just not too awful. But I sure feel a difference: anxiety on the rise. Will have to be extra careful and stay clear of any trouble, keep low, steady and slow as you say Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2 2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013) Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg. 2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days afterreinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours 28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr 2015 1 mg, 25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64 Xanax 9 month hold 24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26 Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus areyouthere Posted March 10, 2014 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 10, 2014 thanks lobster I don't expect to feel great just not too awful. But I sure feel a difference: anxiety on the rise. Will have to be extra careful and stay clear of any trouble, keep low, steady and slow as you say This will help!!! : The spring has finally come here, the days are longer, there is warm sunshine (and I have to sit in the office) but hope will be soon able to take my hikes up the hill near my flat when I get home. The daffodils I planted are blooming, tulips are getting ready. I've always found spring very healing for my spirit. big hug to all! bubble Bubbles… today was a spring day here too!!! I just LOVE it!!! Stay well Bubbles!!! I have not had the courage to continue with my lexapro taper just yet… but am getting closer!!! RU Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone 1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox. b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b] 2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax My mantra " go slow & with the flow " 3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day) 4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day. 10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro. 1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms. 1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut. Link to comment
Nikki Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 RU and Bubbles Spring is a breath of fresh air this year for alot of people. Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/ Paxil 1997-2004 Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries Lexapro 40mgs Lexapro taper (2years) Imipramine Imipramine and Celexa Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each 45mgs. Serzone 50mgs. Imipramine Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus mammaP Posted March 11, 2014 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 11, 2014 Beautiful spring weather here too, it really lifts the spirits! **I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge. Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem) 1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat 2002 effexor. Tapered March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads. Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013 Restarted taper Nov 2013 OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015 Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014 Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg July 2017 30mg. May 15 2018 25mg Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33 Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Rhiannon Posted March 11, 2014 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 11, 2014 Hi Bubble! Sorry to hear you're having the yuckies, but remember, it's just withdrawal, you just made a cut so it's to be expected. It will pass. You just have to "do your time" as a friend of mine once said to me. You are going to be fine. If you've cut too much you can adjust that and go back up a little bit if you need to, it's okay, you will still taper and you will still get there in the end. Anyway, hugs to you. You know what to do: keep the stress low, give yourself lots of permission and extra slack right now, be gentle and caring with yourself, take all the "down time" you need while your nervous system recovers and resets itself. You will be feeling much better a month from now. Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010. Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea. Feb 15 2010: 300 mg Neurontin 200 Lamictal 10 Celexa 0.65 Xanax and 5 mg Ambien Feb 10 2014: 62 Lamictal 1.1 Celexa 0.135 Xanax 1.8 Valium Feb 10 2015: 50 Lamictal 0.875 Celexa 0.11 Xanax 1.5 Valium Feb 15 2016: 47.5 Lamictal 0.75 Celexa 0.0875 Xanax 1.42 Valium 2/12/20 12 0.045 0.007 1 May 2021 7 0.01 0.0037 1 Feb 2022 6 0!!! 0.00167 0.98 2.5 mg Ambien Oct 2022 4.5 mg Lamictal (off Celexa, off Xanax) 0.95 Valium Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus bubble Posted March 11, 2014 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 11, 2014 Hi Bubble! Sorry to hear you're having the yuckies, but remember, it's just withdrawal, you just made a cut so it's to be expected. It will pass. You just have to "do your time" as a friend of mine once said to me. You are going to be fine. If you've cut too much you can adjust that and go back up a little bit if you need to, it's okay, you will still taper and you will still get there in the end. Anyway, hugs to you. You know what to do: keep the stress low, give yourself lots of permission and extra slack right now, be gentle and caring with yourself, take all the "down time" you need while your nervous system recovers and resets itself. You will be feeling much better a month from now. Rhi, of course, you are a godsend! It's so very kind of you. Today was absolutely brutal. I've already made a decision that this was my last 8 % cut or let alone higher. What happened was not so much anxiety although I've been feeling anxious and was expecting that as Rhi said. What happened was the most furious anger, consuming rage. I felt as if I was going to explode or worse I even wrote a snappy post here for which I have to yet apologise (( and also decided not to post in such a state or actually remove myself from any form of interaction with people or limit it as much as possible. I had a session with my psychologist today and we discussed what actually triggered this and withdrawal didn't feature at all in our discussion. It turned out there was a legitimate reason for my combustion (a long pattern of malfunctioning of human relations at work) and she actually said I handled my anger well because I articulated what other people in the office had no courage to do and might have actually moved some processes forward. My actual act of aggression manifested in sending a brief email informing everyone that I would no longer take part in group sessions we are having without giving any more reasons except saying it was a farce I no longer wanted to be a part of. The other part of aggression was not communicating with colleagues I like a lot and am very close with since I was also disappointed with their cowardice. I was too angry to talk to them so just left the office to go for a conference without saying a word to anyone. That's my horrible silent treatment I managed to calm down somewhat by the time I got back (and used my anger there as a fuel for a passionate address that people liked to hear). When I got back the dynamics had already changed, a person who was least expected came over to talk to me saying I shouldn't take all that personally but allowing me also to voice some of my legitimate concerns. After that people who previously said group sessions were useless said they wanted to continue attending them. I was able to articulate very openly everything I felt in an email to boss which didn't upset her and we had a nice telephone conversation in which she confided in me. Now I feel like I will be able to talk to my colleagues tomorrow and tell them I just lost it because of the events they also found disagreeable and deeply frustrating. I don't know if I was a catalyst of change or someone badly hit by withdrawal. Probably both. I survived and I have learnt. hope not too many people were hurt in the process ;( Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2 2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013) Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg. 2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days afterreinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours 28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr 2015 1 mg, 25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64 Xanax 9 month hold 24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26 Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus mammaP Posted March 11, 2014 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 11, 2014 Don't beat yourself up Bubble, sometimes it is hard for us to say what we feel without getting emotional, be it anger, tears or joy. Once when I took a cut I got a bill from my old landlord demanding money that I didn't owe. I was so angry that I sent off a letter telling them how appalling they were to try and fleece a pensioner and they were lucky I wasn't suing them! It was justified but afterwards I felt really bad because I don't confront people, ever and wished I had not sent it. Neuro emotions come into play and we do or say things we wouldn't normally say or do but we (and they) get over it. It sounds like it helped and you gave a great presentation because of it so all is good. ( My ex landlord never asked for money again!) **I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge. Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem) 1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat 2002 effexor. Tapered March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads. Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013 Restarted taper Nov 2013 OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015 Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014 Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg July 2017 30mg. May 15 2018 25mg Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33 Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus bubble Posted March 12, 2014 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 12, 2014 thank you so much MammaP! As your example shows,anger is very helpful but as my therapist put it nicely,we mustn'ta act from anger (being abusive of other people and hurting them) but because of anger (using the energy it mobilised in us to solve problems that make us angry). Guess what folks! I'm playing truant!!! Woke up to a cortisol morning after a 3 am anxiety ambush and started getting ready to go to work and face all the challenges and drama. I felt so sore and raw in my psychic and then it struck me: I could be good to myself, take care of myself and allow myself one day to heal a bit before facing all that again. Called the boss,she was looking forward to working with me on saturday anyway so it's just as well that I traded today for Saturday to enjoy a beautiful spring day after some more napping. So proud of my achievement:I remembered to put myself first and not insist I'd be a coward by not facing challenges while in withdrawal. Following Rhi's advice to the letter haven't been absent from work for 3 months... Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2 2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013) Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg. 2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days afterreinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours 28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr 2015 1 mg, 25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64 Xanax 9 month hold 24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26 Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Petunia Posted March 12, 2014 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 12, 2014 Before I went on ADs I was well on my way to learning how to channel my 'negative' emotions into positive action, unfortunately the drugs seem to have slowed down my emotional development and I'm having to catch up now. But its ok because I've got lots of negative emotions to practice with now I read your recent posts and it seems everything has turned out well in the end. I support you fully in your decision to take a day for yourself and hope you feel well rested for going back to work tomorrow. (hugs) Petu. I'm not a doctor. My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one. My Introduction Thread Full Drug and Withdrawal History Brief Summary Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects 2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010 Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal) May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins. Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens. Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days. April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close. VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from? VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made? VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes? VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects? VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus bubble Posted March 12, 2014 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 12, 2014 Dear Petu, lol for practicing material I'm afraid we will never be in short supply of this... everything is still work in progress but I'm happy I'm out of the ring and will go very slow and keep low. Still have to apologise to Jennifer here That's actually the worst outcome of my raging yesterday... finally managed to get ready for a hike up the hill in one of the first glorious days after long and gloomy winter. Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2 2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013) Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg. 2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days afterreinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours 28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr 2015 1 mg, 25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64 Xanax 9 month hold 24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26 Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Petunia Posted March 12, 2014 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 12, 2014 All this talk about spring and flowers is making me smile, I miss the European type of Spring, its not the same here, we get changes of season, but its rough, rugged and harsh. I was born in the UK and remember daffodils, tulips and beautiful bluebells..... and something I think were called 'foxgloves' growing wild along the side of roads. Enjoy your hike up the hill, I went for a short walk today around my local park with its half dead grass because the weather has been so hot and dry. I was accompanied by a bunch of big, noisy crows...it was ok though, so much better than my walking experiences of several months ago. Anyway, not going fill up your thread with my rambling I was going to post on my own thread, but I got sidetracked, now I'm too tired, so maybe tomorrow. I'm not a doctor. My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one. My Introduction Thread Full Drug and Withdrawal History Brief Summary Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects 2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010 Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal) May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins. Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens. Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days. April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close. VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from? VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made? VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes? VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects? VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes Link to comment
Wolfhound Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Hi Bubble, I am here to ask you how are you doing. Wolfhound Put on trazadone for 8 weeks. Psychic akathisia started on 100 mg. Not a single doctor believed me telling me it is all anxiety in my head. Terrible suicidal urges. Got voluntary hospitalised. Acknoledged adverse reaction, put me off cold turkey. Instalated mirtazapine to block the reaction of trazadone. 5 weeks on mirtazapine.acathisia worsened, suicidal, homicidal urges. Nobody believed. Finally they stopped mirtazapine cold turkey. My heighest dose of trazadone was 200 mg, of mirtazapine 30 mg. Since the c/t, suicidal, acathisia continuing. tried promethazine for sleep. Tried atarax. Currently taking klonopin for 10 days. Good for sleep, but my condition worsening. Unable to tell if it is klonopin or a bad wave. In the former hospital i took twice gabapentin. It should be all my medication. i was offered promethazin for sleep 25 mg and also small amount of quetiapine. Both are antipsychotics, even if ptomethszin very weak. Terribly afraid. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus bubble Posted March 12, 2014 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 12, 2014 Oh Wolfhound, I was just thinking of sending you a similar question. I always think about you and how you are managing... I just came back from unbelievable 6 hours spent outdoors walking slowly up the hill and across meadows and seeing all the flowers Petu is mentioning (plus some more Can't imagine living somewhere without daffodils )) I was thinking how not going to work today was life-saving and how I will definitely never again make such a big cut... I started taking magnesium and Taurine and I think they help. As they were wearing off the anxiety increased and would come in painful and sharp spasms that would come and go. If I could afford myself to roam the hills in this beautiful weather and lie in the sun I could live with this anxiety... Since I can't, I hope it gets at least slightly better tomorrow. For 3 weeks I was so sedated, feeling sleepy the whole day, passing out at 7 pm and now after the cut I'm 'alert' and not sure which is worse. Yesterday I was so angry and irritable that it was scary. Today those neuro-emotions went away and I just feel the most anxiety in these 7 days since the cut. But for the first time in my life these changes make sense to me, I sort of understand what is going on with me, I feel like I'm healing and that this coming down is now for good. Petu, please feel free to write as much as you want on my thread: I will be totally honoured sending you a bunch of daffodils tulips will come a little later... 1 Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2 2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013) Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg. 2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days afterreinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours 28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr 2015 1 mg, 25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64 Xanax 9 month hold 24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26 Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. Link to comment
Wolfhound Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Well, I think when you are able to breath through the spring and to enjoy spring flowers ...that it is a more than a good sign! I agree that these neuroemotions are extremely hard to manage. For me at least! Tonight I feel a little bit better, I fear the morning....but tonight is a little bit calmer. But I can´t stop negative thinking about my children and how this stupid medical episode is destroying my whole family. Sending hugs Bubble. Put on trazadone for 8 weeks. Psychic akathisia started on 100 mg. Not a single doctor believed me telling me it is all anxiety in my head. Terrible suicidal urges. Got voluntary hospitalised. Acknoledged adverse reaction, put me off cold turkey. Instalated mirtazapine to block the reaction of trazadone. 5 weeks on mirtazapine.acathisia worsened, suicidal, homicidal urges. Nobody believed. Finally they stopped mirtazapine cold turkey. My heighest dose of trazadone was 200 mg, of mirtazapine 30 mg. Since the c/t, suicidal, acathisia continuing. tried promethazine for sleep. Tried atarax. Currently taking klonopin for 10 days. Good for sleep, but my condition worsening. Unable to tell if it is klonopin or a bad wave. In the former hospital i took twice gabapentin. It should be all my medication. i was offered promethazin for sleep 25 mg and also small amount of quetiapine. Both are antipsychotics, even if ptomethszin very weak. Terribly afraid. Link to comment
lexicon Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Thinking of you dear Bubble, I hope all is well with you ❤️ Wishing you peacefulness, and well being .. Hugs, Lexi Hello, I am tapering Lorazepam, and my daily dose is 1.125 mgs. I followed a long hold for 5 months, ( Nov-March 2019) hoping to find some stability, but it did not work. So I resumed my taper and hold pattern. For the last 3 years, I have been using a daily microtaper, cutting .001mgs per day, with holds as needed. Symptoms are head pressure, labored breathing, palpitations, abrupt surges of dizziness, this being my worst symptom for now, internal tremors, my latest nemesis, unsteadiness, anxiety, plus many other symptoms that cycle in, and cycle out consistently. Not a day passes, without grief I take no other meds. January 2013 - 15 day quick taper off 10 mgs of Lexapro, and 25 mgs of Sertraline, at a detox clinic. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus bubble Posted March 13, 2014 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 13, 2014 Thank you Lexi! Hoping for some update from you too Day 8 following the cut: after great 6 hours spent outdoors in the sun, I had a more peaceful night - no middle of the night urgent call from anxiety and the waking up call came later than yesterday (although still heavily fueled by cortisol). Things are complicated at work. Bossie had problems with that suprevision thing so is now thinking that she could call it off altogether. If this happens, colleagues will blame me... So despite my withdrawal I have to act somehow... Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2 2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013) Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg. 2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days afterreinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours 28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr 2015 1 mg, 25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64 Xanax 9 month hold 24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26 Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Petunia Posted March 13, 2014 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 13, 2014 I hope your situation at work doesn't get too difficult, I'm sure you will get through it, whatever happens. You seem to be feeling better after your day off... I hope so. I'm not a doctor. My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one. My Introduction Thread Full Drug and Withdrawal History Brief Summary Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects 2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010 Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal) May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins. Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens. Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days. April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close. VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from? VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made? VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes? VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects? VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes Link to comment
lobster Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Stopping by to say hello and hope you are doing ok.sorry about work I know you will get threw all life has to throw at you :-) Lexapro 1 1/8 mg and 10 mg Propranolol. I jumped down to 2.5 mg lexapro from 5 mg on oct 2 where I had been for 7 months and went from 2.5 mg to 1 1/8 mg not sure when maybe around nov 2 went back up to 2.5 mg December 30 . May 13 small cut lexapro 2.5 mg down to 2.4 mg 9/4/14 dropped 8.33% to 2.2 mg 10/13/14 dropped to 2mg lexapro. Back up to 2.2 mg 10/15/14. Dropped to 2 mg lexapro 11/26/14. Dropped 10% to 1.8 mg lexapro 1/11/15. 2/23/15 . Cut of 5%. 3/11/15 cut of 5% 5/3/15 cut of 5% 6/3/15 cut of 5% 7/19/15 cut of 5%. Continued small cuts of 5% every six weeks or so untill October 8th 2016 ,last dose . Last dose was 0.8mg. Currently taking 10 mg propranolol in the afternoon. 1400mg fish oil. 250 mg magnesium, 250 mg L-Taurine, 500 mg Tumeric. 40 mg Zocore simvistatin. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus bubble Posted March 13, 2014 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 13, 2014 thank you Petu and lobster! I have great colleagues who didn't even pick up my negative vibe and just invited me for a coffee on the balcony for a chat. No difficult topics. anxiety still high but managing... Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2 2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013) Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg. 2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days afterreinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours 28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr 2015 1 mg, 25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64 Xanax 9 month hold 24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26 Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. Link to comment
Nikki Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Hi bubble Outdoors and walking. Such a healthy thing to do for yourself. When I get home from work I have been taking my westie out for a nice long walk. Good for both of us. Bubble I don't know what your work situation is. Things in the workplace are different today. Try to go with the flow, sometimes that is all we can do. I 'd like to ask a question. Did you gain weight on Lexapro? I did and alot of it too. In the last two days three people told me I lost weight. I think it has to do with ending the Celexa in November. I am not dieting and the weight seems to be coming off. SSRI's have that effect on me. Have to go....will check in again. Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/ Paxil 1997-2004 Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries Lexapro 40mgs Lexapro taper (2years) Imipramine Imipramine and Celexa Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each 45mgs. Serzone 50mgs. Imipramine Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus bubble Posted March 13, 2014 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 13, 2014 thanks for dropping by nikki! we have to go for more walk definitely! about the weight: oh yes, yes: huge problems! I've always been slim but since I was put on Lexapro I simply can't control my appetite, I don't eat: I devour and my boyfriend tells me I'm on a seafood diet: see food, eat food. I noticed something was wrong pretty soon after being put on Lexapro and tried to go on diet, do more exercises but nothing helped. Then I read the list of side-effects and saw that weight gain features very highly on the list and this explained a lot. It has got so bad that I can't wear any of the clothes I wore before I started taking the damn thing. people even think I'm pregnant ;( I just decided to live with it, do more exercises when I get better and believe that when I finally get down to tapering Lexapro my metabolism will recover. In the meantime I just have to accept that things are the way they are. Now when in active withdrawal it's even more difficult to pay attention to what I'm eating. I eat healthily but my problem are quantities: I just can't get enough ;(. Luckily i don't have a sweet tooth otherwise I would probably look like a Micheline man Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2 2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013) Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg. 2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days afterreinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours 28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr 2015 1 mg, 25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64 Xanax 9 month hold 24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26 Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Petunia Posted March 14, 2014 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 14, 2014 I didn't realize that you are still taking 5mg Lexapro, I should look at signatures more often. Are you planning on tapering completely off xanax before you come off Lexapro. We usually recommend coming off the antidepressant before the benzo. I'm wondering why you are doing it the other way around. Sorry if you have explained it in your thread before. I'm glad your work day went well. I'm not a doctor. My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one. My Introduction Thread Full Drug and Withdrawal History Brief Summary Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects 2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010 Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal) May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins. Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens. Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days. April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close. VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from? VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made? VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes? VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects? VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Petunia Posted March 14, 2014 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 14, 2014 You posted this on another thread, but thought I would comment here but my hormonoes are definitely crazy: sometimes my temperature gets elevated 2 weeks before the period, not to mention craving for fatty food, irritabilty, etc. This is actually quite normal, temperature raises slightly at ovulation time. I'm past all this now, but it used to drive me crazy, without fail, every month, right in the middle of my cycle, I would get hot, couldn't sleep, would lose my appetite and would generally feel restless and tense, for about 24 - 36 hours. I'm not a doctor. My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one. My Introduction Thread Full Drug and Withdrawal History Brief Summary Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects 2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010 Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal) May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins. Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens. Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days. April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close. VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from? VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made? VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes? VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects? VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus bubble Posted March 14, 2014 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 14, 2014 Dear Petu, I appreciate it very much that you found the time to consider my overall situation. I find it most helpful. I did discuss my course of action with the community here before making that decision but it's always a good time to reconsider it. I read the articles here on why it is recommened to taper ADs first and benzos after that but decided to do it the other way round for the reasons I will explain now. I actually plan to decrease Xanax to 1 mg and then start tapering Lexapro so in that respect I will leave the benzo for later. I'm in a similar situation to RU and we both decided to bring the benzo down a bit before tapering the AD because we are on a quite high dose of xanax which is making us very sedated. In my case I think it even caused heart palpitations. The second reason is that I feel like I have stabilised on a too high dose of Xanax. When I was put on Xanax back in 1999 I knew it was highly addictive and bad but I was 22, I had to complete my studies and start to work so I was desperate to be functional. I was taking up to 1 mg and going up and down treating it as a fever medication (in a misinformed attempt to avoid developing dependency). But I was experiencing such debilitating panic attacks that I didn't know what to do. I more or less stayed on this prn Xanax for a year or two which didn't really help with anxiety but I thought it would be even worse without it. I somehow managed to study and later on start with my first job but in hindsight I would say it was more due to the psychotherapy I went to twice a week than Xanax. In 2000 I asked my doctor to put me on Prozac and he did. But to go back to my Xanax story. After my first panic attack in 1999 which left me bed ridden for 2 months, I had another panic attack in 2001 (it was actually a series of dreadful full blown attacks in which I felt as if I was going crazy, my mind was shutting down, being engulfed in something black, I was shaking violently and shivering from cold in the middle of the hot summer). But worse than those attacks, their aftermath again left me bed ridden, unable to leave my room for 3 months let alone work. I was on around 1 mg of Xanax at that time if I remember it correctly but again I don't think it did much for me and I settled down over the period of 3 to 4 months and started working again. But I was scared to death of future panic attacks because I didn't see how I could afford myself another 4 months of not being able to work since I had to finance not only myself but help my parents as well. When I spoke to my therapist about that after feeling the beginnings of yet another panic attack, she told me to take an extra high dose of Xanax: 3 times 1 mg for 5 days and then stop regardless of still being anxious but be on that 5 day tretament even if I started feel better on let's say day 3. She explained that the substancse that were flooding my system would be curbed that way. something like spraying a fire hard to stop it from spreading. It made sense. And it worked. Every time I felt the surge of panic rising (and threatening to make me jobless and unable to support my little brother, forcing me to go home where I was emotionally and physically abused, being unable to go to psychotherapy, etc.), I would do the 5 day thing and I never again had a full blown panic attack. Until this September when I went off both Lexapro and xanax. The point I wanted to make is that I would reduce xanax immediately and when i felt better my sole focus was on decreasing it so for most of the time over that last 14 years (!) I actually stayed on 1 mg or even less. In September 2013 I did the 5 day thing (went from 0 to 3 mg) and after five days reduced it to 2 mg and then decided to stabilise on that dose. But the thing is that I have never been on such a high dose of xanax for so long: 4 months before I started tapering. My most common dose was 1mg (and very often less) and only seldom 2, exceptionally 3. I'm sorry I can't explain this better ;( In any case, after I made my first cut on Xanax in February after 4 months of stabilising, I felt less sedated so decided to continue with the plan of reducing Xanax to 1 mg before starting with Lexapro (very slowly of course). In that I'm defying my doctors who operate from the flawed assumption that benzos are addictive and ADs and harmless so I have to get off nasty benzo asap. But I have found doctors that listen to me and will support me in our way of doing the taper. I think that in 5 months of being on this forum I have significantly reduced my serious psychological dependance on Xanax: i no longer see it as a safety net. I stopped believing in the logic of that doctor that I have to eradicate rising anxiety before it annihilates me. Now I have multiple experiences that anxitey doesn't erupt but it rides over if I let it be and watch it calmly without grabbing for heavy artillery. That's one of the many things why I find this forum extrememly valuable. I'm now in a situation in life when I can afford to pay more attention to my needs and not sacrifice my wellbeing to functionality (far from completely) but I'm not so vitally endangered as before, I can cut myself more slack because I have earned it through 10 years of hard work... Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2 2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013) Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg. 2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days afterreinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours 28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr 2015 1 mg, 25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64 Xanax 9 month hold 24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26 Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Petunia Posted March 14, 2014 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 14, 2014 Thanks for explaining that Bubble, it makes perfect sense and I completely agree with your plan. I probably should have read back through your thread. I've noticed how you have been learning to tolerate the feelings of anxiety and not let them control you any longer, I so much admire that, especially because you now use what you have learned to help others do the same thing. I missed going for my walk today, but I looked at some of your flower photos instead. I'm not a doctor. My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one. My Introduction Thread Full Drug and Withdrawal History Brief Summary Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects 2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010 Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal) May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins. Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens. Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days. April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close. VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from? VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made? VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes? VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects? VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes Link to comment
Wolfhound Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 How s the spring in your country Bubble? Can you enjoy it? Put on trazadone for 8 weeks. Psychic akathisia started on 100 mg. Not a single doctor believed me telling me it is all anxiety in my head. Terrible suicidal urges. Got voluntary hospitalised. Acknoledged adverse reaction, put me off cold turkey. Instalated mirtazapine to block the reaction of trazadone. 5 weeks on mirtazapine.acathisia worsened, suicidal, homicidal urges. Nobody believed. Finally they stopped mirtazapine cold turkey. My heighest dose of trazadone was 200 mg, of mirtazapine 30 mg. Since the c/t, suicidal, acathisia continuing. tried promethazine for sleep. Tried atarax. Currently taking klonopin for 10 days. Good for sleep, but my condition worsening. Unable to tell if it is klonopin or a bad wave. In the former hospital i took twice gabapentin. It should be all my medication. i was offered promethazin for sleep 25 mg and also small amount of quetiapine. Both are antipsychotics, even if ptomethszin very weak. Terribly afraid. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus bubble Posted March 14, 2014 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 14, 2014 no need to read back through the thread: I've must've written all sorts of non-sense thank you so much for the comment on my PMS issues. I really don't need to pathologise myself further sooooo sweet about the flowers )). I feel nicer looking at them too between two memos stuck at my desk while the glorious sun is outside, grrrr I have to learn how to quote parts of the posts because I just quoted a part of your beautiful answer to someone else and didn't know how to do it properly... Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2 2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013) Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg. 2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days afterreinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours 28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr 2015 1 mg, 25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64 Xanax 9 month hold 24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26 Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted March 14, 2014 Administrator Share Posted March 14, 2014 bubble, you've thought it through, and of course it makes sense to reduce the benzo if you're getting adverse effects from it. Good plan. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
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