Sarabellum: Introduction from someone who is SSRI free but struggling

[Sarabellum]

I started using the Vivelle-dot at the beginning of tapering off from Cymbalta. My anxiety was through the roof at that point but it actually seemed to help. But then the hot flashes and mood swings started up again so after a few months on it, I stopped. After several months of being off of SSRIs, I tried the dot again. Within 3 days, the anxiety was back at an intense level. I went off of it.

 

I don't know what to think about any of this. Perhaps I need to see a specialist.

[Altostrata]

It sounds like you are having a paradoxical reaction to the estrogen, which tends to be calming.

 

A smaller dosage might work for you. Women do cut those patches in half to halve the dosage.

[Sarabellum]

I'm rather afraid to try cutting the patch in half just because I had such a horrific reaction.

 

When I tell my ob-gyn about what happened he said, "That shouldn't be happening." Then he suggests I talk with a psychiatrist or therapist. What about an endocrinologist?

 

I could tolerate the hot flashes - it's the anxiety and depression that's crushing me. I have a few days of feeling pretty good only to have more days that follow of days where I feel despondent and don't want to exist. It's so very overwhelming. My daughter, my parents, and others keep questioning why I stopped taking the SSRI because they are afraid for me. They believe me to be far worse now than before. The only support I have is the boyfriend. And I fear I lean to heavily on him.

 

I am seeing a different therapist on Feb. 17.

 

I want this to work. I want to feel better. But it feels like an ongoing battle every day.

[Altostrata]

You need a new ob-gyn. Yes, women can have reactions to estrogen therapy.

 

The idea behind cutting the patch in half is that you'll get a half-dose. This may not cause the rebound symptoms you got when you quit.

 

All types of estrogen therapy need to be tapered to discontinue.

[Sarabellum]

The strange thing is, I used the patch for a few months but when the flashes got worse and the mood became borderline suicidal, I stopped using it. When things began to level off after about 5 months or so, I decided to try the patch again to see if it helped the hot flashes. After 3 days, I felt like I did when was tapering off of the Cymbalta and it scared me so I removed the patch. about 2-3 days later I felt better.

 

This doesn't seem to make sense to me. Why would it not bother me when I first started taking it but then, after months of being off of it, make me feel 100x worse when going back to it?

[Altostrata]

All of the effects of psychiatric drugs are hormonal, as well as estrogen patches.

 

Your hormonal ecology is different now.

[Sarabellum]

So... would it be worth talking to an endocrinologist?

 

I get that hormones affect mood. I'm walking proof. As I stated in the beginning, I had post-partum depression that kicked in 6 weeks to the day after each of my kids were born. I had 4 miscarriages prior to giving birth to them which makes me wonder if all of trauma hasn't caused some damage somehow.

 

I've been taking 400 mg of Albion magnesium as well as wild salmon oil. I'm debating on trying a different fish oil that has increased DHA. I'm just so tired of feeling anxious and angry all the time.

[Altostrata]

Be sure to take the mag in divided doses, throughout the day, instead of all at once.

 

You might see an endocrinologist to get everything checked, but I believe you still need a new ob-gyn.

[Meimeiquest]

S, this is a long shot, but pregnancy loss can be a symptom of small mutations in the MTHFR gene. It can also cause mental health problems. We have a thread entitled The Importance of Methylation and B Vitamins. You can google many sites, but one is MTHFR.net.

[Sarabellum]

Agreed I do need to find a new ob-gyn. He's a thorough fellow but he's retirement age and not particularly up on the latest information.

 

Thank ou meimeiquest. I will check it out.

[eva]

I recognise many things in the posts here. I stopped prozac last june, tapered of, after 20+ years of use.

Am in pre? peri? menopause, and sometimes feel completely crazy, and wondering if it's hormones or prolonged withdrawla. Some days i can hardly think, especially in the mornings. Noise is too loud, and thoughts just keep spinning and repeating in my head, so hard to stop all the useless thinking. Tempted sometimes to go back on the prozac but i really don't want too. I want to make somethinh of the rest of my life, and learn what it is and means to be myself. How are you now, Sarabellum?

[Sarabellum]

There are days I feel like I am leveling off and I feel better but then there are days when the anxiety is out of control. Magnesium (400 mg, 3 x a day) seems to be helping but there have been days when I miss doses due to my crazy work and school schedule. I'm trying.

Even when I am lucid and calm it takes very little to set me off - usually in the way of anger. I don't scream or shout or behave violently. I tend to internalize or complain to others. I spend most of my day on the phone talking to people who are very stressful to deal with. It mostly involves complaint calls or people lying to in order to get something. I also get irritated easily at traffic though I don't yell or start road rage. Oh, I want to scream at people but I'm able to rein it in.

 

The problem is, I've never been like this. I have always been the calm, patient person people go to when they are melting down. Now, I've become Darth Vader and it scares me. The reactions are so lightning fast it's hard to stop them before they start.

 

And when I become despondent, it's very troubling because I don't see an end to it which causes thoughts of checking out to creep in. I won't do it. I'm just being honest. I know how determental suicide can be. It would crush my family. It's a permanent solution to a temporary problem and not one that should be actually considered in cases such as mine. But it is there.

 

I see a new therapist next week. I'm hoping this one will be able to offer some help.

 

Keep going forward, keep trying, and keep hoping. That's all I can do.

[Designgirl732]

sarabellum I'm sorry to hear of your struggle but you sound so strong and I know you'll get through this! I recently found a book called "radical acceptance' by tara brach--it's been my jumping ground for realizing so many things about myself. I too self sabotage, doubt myself, etc..

Good luck and we're here for you!

[Sarabellum]

Thank you stacedesign. I will look into it.

 

I am curious what has helped you? I see you are taking vitamins, tumeric, and fish oil. Has this been helpful? What about meditation?

[Designgirl732]

Hey! Well I'm taking them in combo with the meds I'm trying to taper so I can't say-although I know the tumeric has lowered my blood sugar by 10 points! Meditation REALLY helps me-it slows my heartrate down (Which is pumping harder b/c of the citalopram), and I've just learned a lot in general through mindfulness and meditation that we are NOT broken-the minute we try and 'become better' is the problem. I think I started taking these meds because I felt I needed to 'be better' at something..to not 'worry so much' - etc..you know the drill.

I'm praying that because I haven't been on these meds long my withdrawal won't be too painful. But like you, the medical field just DOESN'T BELIEVE ME! BOTH times i was on different meds I had suicidal thoughts and panic attacks, yet I never had them before I was on meds. Just major anxiety that wasl eading to depression. So what does the dr do? Ups my meds..so now i'm taking my health into my own hands and grateful for this site.

Keep  me posted on how you're doing. And remember, it's just a thought-it's not the truth-and every minute, every hour you can feel better..it's ok..

[Sarabellum]

The level of intensity is what I find hard to deal with, when it comes to emotions. And then I get discouraged and feel the cycle of feeling good/feeling bad will never end. 

 

It's hard enough dealing with just the emotional and physical aspects but on top of this, I have to face surviving on a part-time job while going to nursing school. It's all just very intense and overwhelming at times. I really am trying but I have to admit, I am quite scared.

[Sarabellum]

Does anyone else suffer from a feeling of disassociation?

 

Sometimes I feel like I am watching myself - as if I don't know who this person is that is going about their day. It sounds crazy and I don't like to bring it up to people but I have these kinds of feelings often. What is this?

[Petunia]

It sounds like you are having depersonalization, which is quite a common withdrawal symptom, it often gets associated with a similar symptom called derealization, which is a feeling of being disconnected from your surroundings.

 

I get both of them, but for me, the derealization is worse, they are improving though, they come in waves like all the other symptoms.  Don't worry, it will go away.

 

Here is a discussion thread about it if you want to learn more:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1766-derealizationdepersonalization/?hl=depersonalization

 

I know symptoms can be intense at times, but you are doing well if you are still studying and working.  Just take things one day at a time and you will get through.  Sometimes just focusing on getting through the next hour or the next moment can help.

 

Have a look through the symptoms and self care section for some ideas for managing symptoms.

 

[Designgirl732]

yes! i feel that too! And I know that feeling of 'omg i'm always going to be like this' - it's a double edged sword..the more we think and research, the more informed we are, but at the same time that's all our mind is focusing on.

 

I know it's hard to get out maybe and do things-but even watching a funny youtube video-or doing a 10 minute yoga for anxiety/depression is great. remember you're not alone-even though there's a voice inside that says 'no one understands'

[Sarabellum]

Derealization is something I struggle with as well. I will definitely read up on this topic. Thank you petu.

 

My emotions are so out of wack. I had a very nice man come in to my place if business and asked that I make copies if some paperwork and send to another office. I felt frustrated and no compassion for this person. I am not like this!

 

I tried to search for something down deep in hopes I might find whatever it is that allows me to genuinely care but it just wasn't there. This frightens me. I went to the bathroom after he left and cried. Thoughts of ending my life crept in again because I wonder if I will ever feel something other than negative emotions again. I feel nothing but apathy towards everyone around me - even those I care about.

 

I don't know how to deal with this.

[Sarabellum]

Let me also add that there are times when I do just the opposite of apathy, too. I felt so deeply about another individual's loss I was practically inconsolable. It's as if I'm an alien and been given human emotions to figure out and I don't know how to properly react.

 

Noisy environments can be overwhelming. And the tinnitus can be as well.

 

If you can't tell, today has been particularly upsetting.

[Designgirl732]

well the fact that you were crying is a GOOD sign-as weird as that sounds..that means you don't just have apathy. There are times when we all feel anger, frustration, etc - even if that wasn't 'you' in the past. Hormones also play a big factor. i don't know if you can afford a naturopath or an integrative type of doctor who can run some bloodwork that traditional doctors won't run? could be something as simple as gluten. I also think that us 'medicated or previously medicated' people are so hyper-aware of how we're feeling whereas someone who has never been on meds or suffered withdrawals would just say 'eh, i had a bad day' - and move on.

 

not to oversimplify what you're going through-just quite the opposite-I FEEL for you-i go through the same exact things.

[Sarabellum]

Unfortunately, I can't really afford anything my insurance does not cover, but I do appreciate the thought. Perhaps in time.

I do appreciate everyone sharing their experiences. It makes me feel less isolated.

[Fitby50]

Thank you Narcissus. 

 

What's hardest for me right now is dealing with doctors or people who tell me, "you've been off the medication for almost 7 months. It's out of your system. Maybe this is a sign you need to be on them again." After spending a year trying to get off the stuff without becoming suicidal, I really think the last thing I need is to go back on the stuff. But it is confusing - especially when I'm in the throes of overwhelming emotions. I just want relief.

Sarabellum, I think this is very common for most of us and very frustrating to deal with the medical people.  My PA keeps telling me the same thing and I finally said, lets just agree to disagree and please help me taper off the Rx's.  At first before I found SA website I bought into her theory that its ALL me and let her put me back on Rx after being off only a short time.  Now I know she is all wrong and the feelings I keep having, the anxiety, irritibality, nervousness, anger....etc. etc. is mostly the withdrawl and its not me, I was never this out of control before I ever started these drugs years ago.  It is a losing battle to deal with the doctors bcuz most of them will never believe this AD drugs could every cause these symptoms, they are out of your system, yadayada.  It's not so much them being in our bodies as much as the changes that were made from the years of being IN our system that needs to heal and recoup.  Please do not let your doc or others make you think otherwise. 

[Designgirl732]

Sarabellum if you can find someone who is also an MD they may take your insurance- i know anything with the wot rd 'holistic' or 'naturapath' insurance companies shy away from but a minority have gone into the preventative healthcare field and are MDs. I live in PA maybe it's different.

[Sarabellum]

Good points.

Thank you fitby50 and thank you stacedesign.

 

I'm trying to do all I can now because in about 6 months, I may or may not have decent health insurance. As I explained previously, I will have to change jobs in order to finish my nursing degree. There are no other options where I am currently employed. Ugh it's stressful.

[JanCarol]

Thinking of you Sarabellum, and hoping that you are having a smoother time.

[Sarabellum]

Hey Jan,

 

Thanks for the thought.

 

I'm not ignoring you I just have a lot on my plate and I'm incredibly overwhelmed. Of course the mood battles aren't helping.

 

I'm trying to find scholarships or something tha will help me survive while I'm in nursing school this fall. And a different job. A new (lesser paying) job combined with nursing school has me rather scared. I'm concerned about how I can make this all work and keep my sanity. Doing nothing but work and go to school with little time to regroup will send me in a tailspin I fear.

 

It sucks. I have a pension but I can't touch it for 5 years. I have enough in it to allow me to go to school and live for 2 years without working. But I can't access it not can I borrow against it. Ugh.

 

It's hard not to slip into dark "why do I bother trying" thoughts.

 

I'm just so angry all of the time. I haven't been able to do the meditation group because my classes are intense and take up 90% of my free time. And when I have a moment it seems like I have something with my son or some other crisis that needs attending.

 

I just don't know what to do right now with all that's ahead of me.

[Sarabellum]

Incidentally, I don't know if any of you have this problem but I struggle with compassion right now. It uses to be instinctual for me - felt compassion toward people before I felt anything else. Now, whenever I encounter people, there's an underlying hostility toward them. I don't want to hurt them - I just don't want to be bothered or I assume they are after something.

 

I'm just irritable all the time. At the stupidest things - the way I chew, sun in eyes, traffic, etc. then I get mad at myself for being irritable! How do I break this? How can I be a nurse if I can't figure this out?

 

I should say that I currently work in a job that deals primarily with complaint calls or people who lie to get money.

[Petunia]

For me, withdrawal has pushed me to my limits and at times I've felt myself losing my compassion, just because I've needed all my energy for myself in order to survive.  But if you work in a job, surrounded by dishonesty, then that would also probably be a factor. I can imagine that would start to undermine anyone's trust eventually.

[Sarabellum]

Thanks, Petu. 

 

I had not considered this could be a result of survival mode. It would certainly make sense.

 

I'm having a hard time not fixating on how I'm going to make things work with nursing school, a new job, and surviving. I just need make it for the next 2 years while I'm in school without losing my mind or becoming homeless but I don't know how to make that happen. I don't have a husband/significant other able to help out. As I've said, I've got a shattered credit history due to some unfortunate events so I doubt I can get much in the way of student loans. I find myself rethinking everything right now and with the withdrawal and menopause, it's hard to manage the anxiety.

[Sarabellum]

I still feel like it's 'one step up - two steps back' right now.

 

I did find out something important though... I had my hormone levels tested and my levels have dropped significantly. Last year, my estrogen level was 44 (down from 53 the year before). The nurse called me yesterday and said my levels are now "below 14."

Yeah... that's pretty significant.

 

I'm seeing the doctor on Friday to see what my options are.

 

I was told it's "no surprise" my mood has been depressive.

 

Does anyone have experience with estrogen drops like this?

[Altostrata]

Sounds like menopause. Please do not immediately jump to a drug cocktail to treat it.

[Sarabellum]

A cocktail drug? I was thinking of bioidentical hormone replacement.

 

I will tell you this... I am at my breaking point. I do not know how much more I can stand.

 

Anytime the boyfriend gets irritated with me I go into panic mode. Earlier, he was tired and trying to get work done and I kept coming to him with a bunch of questions on a variety of subjects. I managed to take something he said and turn it into something about regarding our relationship and that started tension. Normally he's pretty patient with me but he got irritated and said I was interfering with work he needed to get done and that I take up way too much of his time. I was crushed. I totally fell apart which didn't help matters. Thus begins a cyclone of bad behaviors, negative thoughts, and poor communication. Does it help the situation? Not at all but there I am, trying to put out a forest fire with a squirt gun. In fact, I feel worse now than I did when the conversation started. And all I keep doing is spinning the conversation and negative thoughts around and around in my head.

 

It's amazing. I don't think I could tolerate someone I loved behaving like I do yet, I do it.  I constantly pester him for reassurance. I look for the smallest sign of perceived trouble then over analyze it and want to talk about it. What I fear the most - him leaving me - is going to happen if I continue down this path and I could not blame him if he did. It's crazy and it's unhealthy and what's worse,  I KNOW BETTER than to behave this way! But I can't seem to stop myself once the panic kicks in. Much like what happens when I'm irritated or anxious, all reason and CBT training goes out the window in the blink of an eye.

 

i have turned into a full-blown, raging codependent. 

 

Oh but there's more... It's going to sound odd but I have no sense of a future for myself even though I keep pushing through school. I have so many days where I wake up and think, "Why am I doing this? It's so hard and I don't know if I will even like nursing." It scares me and like everything else in my life, I spin up a million negative thoughts about not being able to do it.

 

The job I have now is an easy one but it's not fulfilling and rather stressful. I think, "I have a decent job with decent benefits that's unbelievably easy - why do I want to give that up for something as hard as nursing?"  Well... I want to have a purpose. I want to count for something other than directing phone calls, getting yelled at, and shuffling paperwork. I want to help and to matter. I want to have flexible hours and work as much or as little as I want. 

 

But.... I want to be a good nurse and the fact that I am struggling with anger and irritability is more than concerning. I know if I cannot get a handle on this by the time I start nursing school in the fall, I won't attend. That scares me.

 

I don't want to go on SSRIs - they don't help me. But I am considering bioidentical hormone replacement therapy. I am trying to do meditation too but i can't seem to manage the thoughts drifting in. I know it takes time. I just need to find a beginners group here locally.

 

Please understand... there is not a day that goes by that ending my life doesn't cross my mind and that is deeply depressing. It doesn't mean I will commit suicide, nor does it mean I have a plan. I couldn't do that to my children. What it means is, I am in a  lot of pain - so much so I have very little hope.

 

I just don't want to get to a place where I have none.

[Hopefull]

Hi Sarabellum,

 

I keep reading over your posts and wonder whether you could have ROCD, ( Relationship Obsessive Compulsive Disorder). I am not a doctor or an expert but what stood out was that you keep seeking reassurance from your boyfriend and that you have the same chain of thoughts over and over again. People think that OCD has to do with compulsions, but some of us don't have the compulsions only obsessive thoughts that keep reoccurring like a broken record. The more you try to get rid of the thoughts the worse it gets.  Please I don't want to make your matter worse or anything like that but I was just wondering. I hope you don't mind. I hope that you are doing well.

[Altostrata]

I would hesitate to label a very complex emotional response in a relationship as any kind of psychiatric disorder.

 

Yes, many women do take bioidentical hormones to deal with menopause symptoms. There are some things you can try first, like regular exercise and nutritional changes.

 

Given your history with adverse reactions to psychiatric drugs, I would avoid them.