Hopefull: suffering from PGAD

[Hopefull]

Thank you, Fresh. I think that I am experiencing protracted wd symptoms.

And my brain is overcooked.

 

I am experiencing cold chills. Pressure in the head. Today pressure in the neck, like someone is pushing down on my neck.

Internal vibration after couple hours of taking Mirtz. This symptom is very recent.

Weird, bizzare.

I kick my self every day for going on these drugs. I had a good life. I am better, but still not me.

[tgirl]

Hello Hopefull,

It will get better! Look for a pattern. Stay calm. (hard I know).

You are a strong girl. You got this!

Best wishes

[Hopefull]

Thank you Tgirl,

It means a lot to me. You can do it too!

[Broken]

I've been following your posts Hopefull and although I've been too wrapped up in my own misery to offer any support I am 100% confident that you will make a full recovery for what it's worth.

 

You've come along way, you have healed and you will continue you to heal until this is nothing more than an unpleasant distant memory which will fade with time as all memories do.

 

You will get your life back and you will be whole again.

[Hopefull]

Thank you so much Broken for taking the time to offer your support.

I know that you are struggling and I hope that you will heal and get your life back on track, because we all deserve to have a happy and fulfilling life.

[AliG]

  Hi Hopeful,  Just saying Hi.  It all seems to be "windows & waves", from what I can gather, from your symptoms. I have a lot of the same. It's unpredictable, in nature -  "withdrawal".  there seems to be no rhyme or reason to it.  I've just had the worst week, and then today, a "miraculous window".   Go figure  !!   However it gives me hope.  I hope you get some relief from your symptoms soon  .  If you're patient I'm sure it will happen, at some point.  Patience , seems to be the key to this thing.   Stay strong,  Love ,  Ali.

[Hopefull]

Thank you AliG , for your encouraging words. It means a lot to me. I am trying to be hopeful. I know that patience is the key to recovery. I wish it would hurry up and get it over and done with.

[Purplestars22]

Hey Hopeful, don't be too hard on yourself on starting this drugs. You live and learn and you will come out of it this transformed in a positive way. It's good that you are feeling better.

I just read a post from Irishwil on his sucess story l and enjoyed reading because it is truly magnificent how he recovered from the depths of suffering to now living a great life.

[Hopefull]

Thank you Purplestars for your encouraging words. I do appreciate it.

I will read Irishwill success story.

I hope that you are doing well.

Today I just feel awful. I have cried for the first time in a long time. Normally I feel numb. I was thinking about everything that has happened to me in the last 20 months. I just broke down and cried. I have finally made the decision to report my doctor to the Health Commission and this has not been easy. I have to write a letter and hopefully something positive will come out of the negative situation. I need closure, I can't move forward without it.

There are times when I still feel shattered by everything that has happened post Zoloft.

I am in a wave right now. Can't watch tv, too stimulating. Sometimes even using my mobile phone is too stimulating. Anxiety creeping up almost every day.

20 months if this is sometimes too much to bear. There times when I feel almost like my old self. I really feel relived when that happens. But it really can change from one moment to the next. I hide my feelings from everyone around me. I don't want to upset anyone around me.

On Monday I am seeing a neuro psychologist and I hope for positive outcome.

I still do everything for the family and I try to do my best. I'm trying to remain positive, but sometimes I find it hard.

I would love to be old me with flaws, then the person that I no longer recognize since AD'S.

I hope that my next post is more positive. Right now I need to vent my frustration with the whole process of healing, waves and windows.

I really hope that next year, will finally be my year and that I will be able to get my life back on track. I feel a bit lost at the moment. I would love to go back to work, but right now I can't plan ahead, as I don't know how I am going to feel from one moment to the next.

[Fresh]

Hi Hopefull , sorry you feel so aweful , but being able to cry and let some of the pressure out is a good thing . . . changes are signs of healing , and that's a positive thing!   Yay for you (even if you don't feel it atm).

 

I've been in touch with a very interesting lawyer who is helping me.  He started a website called ATAF - Australian Taxpayers against fraud and False Claims.    http://ataf.com.au/services-content/   Don't do anything on the spur of the moment . . . get help to write the letter in the best , most useful way.   Consult with ATAF , it's free.

 

I appreciate the frustration of being unable to commit to things because you don't know how you'll feel.  

That's a big thing for me.  The only arrangements I make now are flexible , and I don't give myself a hard time anymore if I just can't get there.  

Try to be gentle with yourself.  It's a matter of time before things get more back to normal.  Your job is to stay calm as much as you can , and provide the most beneficial environment you can to allow your cns to heal and grow.

 

I have a question:  What constitutes a positive outcome from a neuro psychologist?   

Hang in there possum , it's going to be okay   .

[Hopefull]

Update :

I had a meeting with a lawyer today.

Sadly, She was not willing to take on my case, because it would be hard to prove medical negligence.

Apparently doctors don't have to disclose all possible side effects from medication, especially side effects thatthey were not aware of and are rare.

I can honestly say that Australian legal system sucks!

WTF? What is the purpose of seeing your GP if they are not obligated to inform you of possible side effects from prescribed medication?

Ridiculous, to say the least!

I am really angry and disappointed about this!

[Fresh]

Hi Hopefull.    Was the lawyer you saw from the Dept. of Health?    I think it's a bit like going into a police station and asking about how to put in

a complaint against a police officer . . .  you may be told partial truth or incorrect information.

Please contact    http://ataf.com.au/services-content/   and let us know how you go.

 

[Hopefull]

Hi Fresh,

No this lawyer was recommend to me by Victorian Law Institute. This lawyer is a medical negligence lawyer. She has 20 years of experience. No win, no fees.

I think that they only take on cases that they can win for sure and that are not complex.

 

I did look at the link that you have sent me.

I will get in contact with them and let you know how I go.

Still feeling up and down.

Waiting for the wave to pass, hope to stabilize soon.

I started taking Inositol again today.

It seems to curb my anxiety.

I am only taking 1/2 teaspoon and will only take it, every second day.

Is a gluten free diet worth the bother if you don't have gluten intolerance?

 

I am sceptical about everything these days.

Nuro psychologist wants me to take 8 different supplements and I almost had an anxiety attack. $300 worth as a matter of fact.

This is the list :

Fish oil

Zinc Citrate

Vit E

Micro Mineral Solution

Magopticell-Magnesium supplements

NAG N Acetyl D Glucosamine

Vid d 3

Co enzyme q10

Vic c

 

My concern is obviously bad reaction to these things.

I have not taken any supplements for a long time.

Some of the suppliments contain selenium , which in large quantities can be toxic.

Also manganese, boric , some other things. What do you think?

[AliG]

Hopeful,

 

I think we have to be skeptical !!  That doesn't look like  $ 300, to me , but having said that mixed supplements are a problem. You could probably get these separately, at the health food store, for $ 30.

 

I believe a "gluten free" diet is worth trying out, for anyone. Read "Grain Brain"  & " Wheat Belly".

 

What have you decided ?  ( about the supplements) ??

 

Don't beat yourself up for going on the drugs. It was not your fault !

 

Love,  Ali.

[Hopefull]

Hi AliG,

 

Thank you for your support.

That is why I didn't buy the suppliments directly from the neuro psychologist.

Very expensive, considering I can get those supplements cheaper from the health food store.

I would be willing to try those supplements separately as you have suggested.

Fish oil and magnesium I don't tolerate.

I have tried it in the past and was having reactions to it , especially post Zoloft.

When I try to explain this to the Health care providers, I am often met with a perplexed look.

 

I'm am trying not to beat myself up about taking Ad's but it is hard.

I keep pressing the rewind button in my head. All I can think of how I was before the drugs.

If I see old pics of my self, I think, "I was happy then". Who am I now?

Where is the old me?

In 2 months it will be almost 2 years since adverse reaction to Zoloft.

Mitrazapine has not been picknic either.

Far from it.

I can only hope for a better tomorrow.

I am in a wave at the moment. Hopefully in 2 weeks I will start to feel better.

Once I stabilize, I might take a break from tappering.

I am tired of repeating the same wave/healing process.

My goal was to get off Mirtazapine by October, that is now out of the window.

I am almost there. Another 6 months will do me no harm.

[Hopefull]

How are you doing AliG?

[ten0275]

hi hopefull,

thanks for taking the time to visit my thread, i appreciate it. and i am glad to hear you are hanging in there, playing the long-game, and doing what you need to do in pushing forward. i've had a few small waves of late myself. sigh... i'm not sure what to attribute them to. life-stressors, the impeding change of season with fluctuating histamine levels. i don't know. like you, i've berated myself a bazillion times over for ever having taken the drugs. but i have to think that 99.9% of us didn't begin psychiatric medication because we were somehow looking to cop out of our problems. i think we felt that we were following the correct medical procedure/path to treat some underlying condition or imbalance we were told (sold) we possessed. ultimately, beating up on ourselves gets us nowhere but spinning our tires in the mud, churning up new and old hurts alike - attacking the very core of our idea of self-worth. and it's all for nothing. because in absence of that oh-how-awesome-it-would-be-to-rewind button (i've looked everywhere for it!!!), our best efforts are focused on the push forward. i don't have any idea what full healing will look like for me. but what an admirable pursuit! i think your better tomorrow is coming. gently keep after it!

hang in there,

dave

[Hopefull]

Thank you so much Dave for your encouraging words.

 

I hope that the wave you are in is tolerable.

 

Right now I am experiencing burning in the back of my head, which I have not had for a while. I took inositol powder today, so I don't know whether it is from that or just wd. I have taken inositol powder in June and I was ok.

Last night I woke up with anxiety, my body was on the verge of andrenneline surge. I felt revved up.

I panicked . I just feel like I am going backwards. I was feeling pretty good and the last 2-3 weeks have been hard.

Burning in the head, surges, takes me right back to early stages of wd.

Dave, do you still experience surges, burning sensation in the head?

Right now the back of my head is burning like it is on fire!

I am taking vitamin c and iron.

I have experienced musle twitching and jerks in my thighs the other night, super anxiety. Never experienced muscle spasms before.

Sometimes I have had enough. I want to be well. I want to live a happy life.

I love my kids and my husband. I want to be free from the shackles of WD.

[AliG]

Hopeful,

 

I just saw this. Sorry I took so long to get back to you. I'm not sure what I can say , after Dave, but  I think you're doing well.

 

Maybe a quote -   "find a place inside where there's joy & the joy will burn out the pain".

 

Love, Ali .

[ten0275]

hey hopefull,

the wave is tolerable so far. it amazes me that even at this later stage in the game, being sort of old hat for me, waves still take me quite by surprise. which i guess is sort of a good thing in some ways, as the early days were perpetual waves from which i thought i'd never escape. now they (the waves) are the rarer occurrence and the good days far outnumber them. so even the waves are a nice illustration of healing's progression.

sorry for the difficult past 2-3 weeks. it becomes a long march to the sea, doesn't it? when the days turn into weeks (and in some cases months!). you've seen them come and go though - the waves - this one will break too.

i still experience the surges. not often, but i do - when i am in a wave. most often these come when either falling asleep or awaking. i also will have, coinciding, the distinct feeling of not being able to properly catch my breath. within that, there is a seed of panic which i try distinctly hard not to water - and it thankfully dissipates. the burning sensation in the head is not so much a problem for me - i don't really have that. the burning i used to experience was more in my lower limbs - legs, calves, etc. but i have, at the lower doses, developed migraines. every few weeks i get a real-deal piercing migraine that puts me down hard for a good 6 to 8 hours. i hope this will not be a long-term companion for me!!

oh, i'm quite sure you've had enough - like months and months ago! you will be well, and you will have a happy life. with your love of your kids and husband, have faith that they reciprocate that love no matter the turmoil you endure. your love for them, the nature of that emotion, is something that withdrawal can't touch. withdrawal may limit your ability to do certain things - perform certain activities in the out-and-about world - but the incalculable core of your love for your family is beyond withdrawal's reach. it is as unconditional now as it ever was. i think you know that.

how about thinking of withdrawal less as a pair of custom-fit shackles and more like the string of a bow, with you the arrow, and the progression of your healing the action of pulling back. as the bow is drawn, the arrow must be in a state of repose, focus must be maintained as much as possible, with the goal situated before it. tension runs high, runs low, runs high as the sinew tightens - and the goal is to remain steadfast and steady. until... the tension of withdrawal... releases... you... soaring! and it really, really will.

you know, i think often many of us are discouraged by the lack of concrete success stories. i think the lack of these stories comes from several reasons. i think those of us who actually "complete" withdrawal are often still fearful of a return of the symptoms - we hesitate to write "the big post" because "what if?" what if it changes? i think the true success stories are the da-to-day incremental progress we make that display the healing capabilities of our brains. when things are better today than they were three months ago, four months ago, yesterday - that is a success story. you have had many success stories. many more are coming.

you're doing the right things to get through this!!

dave

ps. ali's quote about joy burning out the pain is great!

[Hopefull]

Thank you AliG and Dave for your kind words of wisdom and encouragement.

 

I am trying to move forward, to keep going. Dave , I find your wisdom really comforting and reassuring.

You really have a way with words.

I don't know how to quote, but the part about the love for my family has brought me to tears.

I am going to beat this. I know that I am slowly healing, I can cry!

But I am still unable to feel deep love for others, like I did before the meds.

Is this going to come back?

I'm hoping that once I am fully of meds, I will feel love fully again.

 

I am still easily triggered by certain situations, places, people.

I get awful anxiety.

I have anxiety triggers that I did not have before the meds.

I do worry about whether this is permanent and what my future holds.

Thank you everyone for your support, I don't know where I would be without it.

[AliG]

 Hopeful,

 

 Thank you for your kind words & encouragement , on my thread. Sorry, I made you cry !!   

 

 Wish you were closer. We could have a coffee !

 

 You never know, maybe one day .

 

 Anyway,  Stay cool & calm.  I think the anxiety is " withdrawal" if you didn't have it before.  Have you tried the " dissolved" magnesium ?

 

 Ali.

[Hopefull]

Hi AliG,

I teared up, because I can relate to your post. I have those, "end it all", thoughts from time to time when you hit the rough patch.

I was really touched by what your daughter said to you, and it is truly beautiful.

"End it all thoughts ", are just plain garbage. We all deserve to be here.

Are you from Melbourne?

If you are we could meet up for a coffee.

Best wishes, Hopefull.

[AliG]

Hi Hopeful,

 

It sounds like your emotions are very close to the surface, at the moment. I understand. I am the same . I hope it's a good sign !!       "Those" thoughts are a result of the drugs, in my opinion. I didn't know , then but that is what  I now believe.

 

I'm from Brisbane, but if you're ever up this way ... 

 

I love Dave's analogy of the "bow & arrow", with regard to withdrawal& healing.  Hopefully, we will be "soaring"  at some point in the future.

 

This is not "permanent". You are healing !!

 

Happy healing .

[Hopefull]

Thank you AliG.

I am in a wave at the moment. Lots of anxiety triggers.

I just have to keep fighting and I will be ok at the end.

Happy healing to you too.

[Hopefull]

I am in a really bad wave at the moment.

Anxiety and burning at the back of my

head.

I am triggered by the tv.

How common are cortisol surges, triggered by unpleasant thoughts, early in the morning?

The other night I woke up and had a thought that triggered a surge.

Pre-ad's never experienced such things.

This is really killing me psychologicly.

I am experiencing symptoms that I thought were gone.

It seems like the window period has closed.

Yesterday, I stormed out of the neuro psychologists office.

I have never done this before.

I'm fed up with bs. Plugging of supplements. No one seems to understand that since Ad's , I don't tolerate some supplements.

I am not a guinea pig to be experimented on.

I'm am experiencing a return of some post Zoloft symptoms. This is driving me insane. I feel defeated, mentality exausted. I am really trying, but not sure where my life is heading.

My biggest issue is anxiety and the anxiety triggers. Just when I thought some of the anxiety triggers are gone, back again. Anxiety triggers that I did not have before.

What the hell is my brain doing?

I have really tried to be hopeful, but it is hard to believe that my brain will fully recover from this.

I know it is wd, but I find my self questioning everything.

When everything is going well, my questioning stops.

When the old symptoms return, the questioning returns.

Is it me or wd? Is it me or meds?

I know that this is common.

Last couple of days have been tough.

Thank God for this site.

I can vent my frustrations and feelings.

I am experiencing the "disbelief feelings", again.

I'm having a hard time accepting what has happened and is still happening to me.

I still cling to a hope that I will find a way out of this mess.

[Hopefull]

Wd symptoms are bad,

Burning symptoms are back.

Head, chest arms.

Warped dreams are back.

Hard time sleeping. Thoughts trigger burning feeling in the body. Really weird stuff going on. All too familiar.

My question is whether I should increase the dosage to 5mg?

Currently on 4 mgs of Mitrazapine, since 18th of August.

Wd symptoms increasing.

Should I hold 4mgs until the end of September /beginning of October to see if I stabilize? If not, increase to 5mg?

Thank you.

[ten0275]

hopefull, hi.

 

i'm really sorry you are suffering. so are you saying you cut from 5mg to 4mg august 18? if so, you cut 20%. if this is the case and symptoms are intense as you describe, i would consider a rise of a .5 mg and see if you can stabilize on that. that would put you at 4.5mg and 4.5mg would have been the 10% cut for august.

 

dave

[Fresh]

I agree with Dave Hopefull . . . seems you can't tolerate a 20% drop.  

[Hopefull]

Thank you so much guys for your support.

Yes , I cut down from 5mg to 4mg 18th of August.

I will increase the amount to 4.5 or 5 mg tonight and hold for a while. Hopefully that will help.

Is it possible that I am experiencing Zoloft protracted wd and Mirtazapine wd at the same time?

It is really confusing. Especially the PGAD side of things. Is it still from Zoloft or Mirtazapine. Has Mitrazapine masked the symptoms all along?

I even felt like PGAD symptoms creeping in ever so slightly.

I just took inositol hoping to ease wd symptoms.

Fresh, I just spoke to the lawyer you recommended and he seems like a really nice person.

He said he would get back in touch with me.

How are you both?

This is doing my head in psychologicly.

I felt good, thought I was making progress, bam, back to the crap hole.

The burning feelings are just hard to comprehend. What is the purpose of this and why does it happen?

Thank you so much for your support.

This site gives me hope. It is my catastrophic mind that makes things worse.

I'm still learning about the wd symptoms, protracted withdrawal and the waves.

I just hope that I can get off this poison.

One day at the time I guess.

Thank you so much Dave and Fresh.

Hopefull.

[ten0275]

hi hopefull,

 

thanks for stopping by my thread. i am well. did you updose and if so, by how much and how are you doing currently?

 

the symptoms are very confusing, aren't they? it isn't surprising though that you feel some intensification of them when you cut the mirtazapine. when you are at the level of mirt that we are at, it does not act like the accelerator that most ADs are (and that mirt itself can be above 15mg) - it behaves more as a brake, kind of like benzos. so if you look at the analogy of driving a car, when you reduce your mirtazapine dose, you are easing up on a the brake just a little which means the car (your nervous system) is suddenly rolling at a slightly increased rate of speed. and if you ease up on the brake gently enough, you adjust to the new rate of speed and are able to deal with it. if you let up too quickly on the brake (and perhaps your last 20% cut was this), then quite suddenly it feels more like formula 1 racing versus a drive through the countryside in autumn (or spring for you aussies), right?

 

as i have gotten lower on the mirt, i must admit that the cuts have become more difficult. whereas once i could cut 10% without a whole lot of suffering, now cutting 5% seems to be pushing the limits. this is not discouraging to me - i think it simply means my body needs more time and care in tapering from the drug. and when i cut, and certainly when i cut a greater amount, any underlying symptoms that have abated will sometimes flare up again. for you, this may be pgad where for me i might have some restless legs or some minor intrusive thoughts. these always abate to a better baseline as my brain adjusts to the change.

 

let us know how you are doing and what you decided about increasing your dose. and above all, please remain "hopefull!"

 

hang in there,

 

dave

[melanie]

Hello Hopefull,

 

Just stopping by to say hello. Thanks again for your kind words on my PM. Probably Dave's advice of 5% Remeron cuts makes a lot of sense, he's got years of experience with Remeron.

 

I only took it for 3 weeks, so cannot be of much help here, I'm sorry...

 

Hugs, Mel

[Hopefull]

Hi Dave and Mel,

Thank you for your words of encouragement.

Since last Saturday, things have gone from bad to worse.

I saw an aromatherapist yesterday, paying for it today! She gave me some aroma rubs and wild orange oil to take internally.

1 drop in 500 mls of water.

I did that and last night, experienced terrible tremors. I was wired up. Hardly slept. This morning, tingling, burning arms legs, back of head.

Thoughts produce weird body feelings.

Like I had from Zoloft. I feel like I am back to square one. I have spent a lot of money yesterday. I was desperate to try anything. Lesson learned again.

On Thursday I had bad flu like symptoms. Temperature. Muscle stifness. Could hardly walk.

 

Don't know if it is from wd or Inositol powder.

Took 2 teaspoons on that day.

My only hope now is hyperbaric chamber therapy, which I start in 2 weeks time.

That is what is keeping me going.

Can I recover 2nd time around?

I am not giving up!

The people on this website are my life line.

Thank you for all your kind words, encouragement. I can never thank you enough. Thank you Alto for creating this site.

I still have hope for recovery. I will live in hyperbaric chamber, if I have to.

I have my family to take care of, nothing else matters to me.

I want to be normal again.

I have experienced so many abnormal things on these drugs. It makes me realize I was pretty normal to begin with, appart from the anxiety.

Mel , hold on and keep going.

Dave, you should be a therapist.

You always give sound advice and you are encouragement to others.

[tgirl]

Hopefully,

 

You poor thing. I know the desperation to try anything to get some relief. I don't blame you for trying.

Did you up dose?

I hope tomorrow proves a better day!

Tgirl

[Hopefull]

I have to 5mg.

Stabilized somewhat. Still not great.

[Fresh]

I'm with Tgirl - don't blame you for trying.    However . . . it seems that hurrying the process is causing you more harm than

good.

You might want to consider a big long hold at this point.  Have you seen the "brassmonkey method" of tapering?  Small cuts every 1 or 2 weeks , then hold for a couple of weeks.

   

Thankyou for sharing that you did a decrease on August 18. It makes your symptom pattern make sense. Reading through your posts since then , you can be very confident  that all of your increased symptoms have come as a direct result of that cut.

 

Can you tell us a bit more about the hyperbaric chamber treatment?   I asked my gp about having an oxygen tank at home but she said that you have to be pretty much unable to walk across the room to qualify.  I haven't pursued it.  

 

Hang in there Hopeful ,   xxx