Rocket4: Need to stop the fear!

[Rocket4]

I am a new member and I am going through this exact condition. Insomnia is killing me. I lay down at 10pm, exhausted, dark room, fan in the background, wife has moved to the spare room (she prefers that bed), temp. at 68. It feels so good when I first lay back, propped up so that I am sitting at almost 45 degree angle because laying flat like I have all my life seems to aggravate the condition. As I start to drift away the twitching and jerking starts. Eventually I fall into sleep but as the sleep starts to get a little deeper I am jolted awake by my fight or flight response. This usually happens within an hour of going to bed and I am almost always unable to sleep for another minute that night. I have been on AD's twice in my life prior to this most recent episode. Lexapro worked for me in 2007. I started it again in 2010 and the side effects caused me to switch to Zoloft after 3 weeks. Zoloft "worked" in 2010. Last month I tried Lexapro (10mg) again and had to stop after 3 days. Switched to Zoloft (25mg) just like I had 3 years earlier but the start up side effects were also very unpleasant so I stopped after 10 days. It was during this 2 week period that my sleep issues began to worsen dramatically. My Dr. prescribed Paxil and Xanax. I was very concerned about taking either of them but I needed sleep as I had a number of big business events coming up. I started the xanax to try and help me sleep. It worked a little but now I am 23 days into xanax at about .25mg per day and I have decided that it is time to stop. I am going to taper to .125mg per day starting yesterday and hopefully get off of this within 2 weeks. I never tried the Paxil as I was too afraid. Things have gotten progressively worse to the point where I have now had to take time away from work. I am depressed which is where this all started. Now I am having anxiety and fear that my life is over. Will I ever sleep again? Will I ever feel like myself again? I have lost 20 pounds in the last 6 weeks. It was so comforting when I believed that depression symptoms could be resolved by correcting the chemical imbalance in the brain. I am afraid that I am hyper sensitive to these types of drugs and that nothing can help me. I apologize for being so dramatic but I feel like I am going insane. I need a plan to get better naturally. I need to get a handle on this fast. Please help me.

[lobster]

I am a new member and I am going through this exact condition. Insomnia is killing me. I lay down at 10pm, exhausted, dark room, fan in the background, wife has moved to the spare room (she prefers that bed), temp. at 68. It feels so good when I first lay back, propped up so that I am sitting at almost 45 degree angle because laying flat like I have all my life seems to aggravate the condition. As I start to drift away the twitching and jerking starts. Eventually I fall into sleep but as the sleep starts to get a little deeper I am jolted awake by my fight or flight response. This usually happens within an hour of going to bed and I am almost always unable to sleep for another minute that night. I have been on AD's twice in my life prior to this most recent episode. Lexapro worked for me in 2007. I started it again in 2010 and the side effects caused me to switch to Zoloft after 3 weeks. Zoloft "worked" in 2010. Last month I tried Lexapro (10mg) again and had to stop after 3 days. Switched to Zoloft (25mg) just like I had 3 years earlier but the start up side effects were also very unpleasant so I stopped after 10 days. It was during this 2 week period that my sleep issues began to worsen dramatically. My Dr. prescribed Paxil and Xanax. I was very concerned about taking either of them but I needed sleep as I had a number of big business events coming up. I started the xanax to try and help me sleep. It worked a little but now I am 23 days into xanax at about .25mg per day and I have decided that it is time to stop. I am going to taper to .125mg per day starting yesterday and hopefully get off of this within 2 weeks. I never tried the Paxil as I was too afraid. Things have gotten progressively worse to the point where I have now had to take time away from work. I am depressed which is where this all started. Now I am having anxiety and fear that my life is over. Will I ever sleep again? Will I ever feel like myself again? I have lost 20 pounds in the last 6 weeks. It was so comforting when I believed that depression symptoms could be resolved by correcting the chemical imbalance in the brain. I am afraid that I am hyper sensitive to these types of drugs and that nothing can help me. I apologize for being so dramatic but I feel like I am going insane. I need a plan to get better naturally. I need to get a handle on this fast. Please help me.

I'm sorry you are having a hard time with this. You will sleep again. I have been threw this about four times. The first time was premedication so it had to be from extream stress and anxiety. Went to bed one night and all he'll broke loose fight or flight every time I started to sleep. This happend for three nights I thought my life was over and I was never going to sleep again. I ended up in a mental institution over night so they could try and get me to sleep. Keep in mind I had never had any sleep issues or mental issues prior. They gave me enough meds to put a horse down. I was released the next morning and the next night was the same thing all over flight or fight each time I tryed to sleep. I was given lexapro and zyprexa. Started feeling better and my sleep improved with in a week. I stoped the zyprexa and was sleeping normal. I was told to stop taking 20 mg lexapro so I did didn't know any thing about withdrawl my anxiety went threw the roof and my sleeping just stopped one night. I had to take sleeping meds every night for 3 months my body wasn't even trying to sleep on its own. At that point I wish I had the sleep jerks back because I would atleast know my body was attempting to sleep with out medication. This stopped when I started falling asleep with out knowing it. My wife would say you have been sleeping you were snoring but I would sware that I hadent. I felt so good that I was sleeping alittle with out meds that the anxiety got better about sleep and in no time I was sleeping again with out the sleep meds or sleep jerks. The last time was around Christmas my anxiety got out of control and the sleep jerks and fight or flight response came back. So I had to take some sleep meds for a while. But I kept telling my self my body is trying to sleep and once the anxiety gets better I will sleep with out the meds or the sleep jerks and fight or flight. It has been about 2 weeks and I haven't taken any thing for sleep and no sleep jerks. I admit that every time it happens I wonder if I am going to ever be able to sleep again but I do and you will to. I know it's hard but worrying about it only seems to make it worse at least it does for me. Good luck and if I can help in any way let me know :-)

[Rocket4]

Tardive dysphoria. The scariest term I have ever heard and I just discovered it today. I am a 43 year old going through the 3rd depressive episode of my life. I took ad meds for the first 2 and tried briefly for the current episode but have stopped after 2 weeks of bad start up side effects. It is worth noting that I have been on xanax for 24 days, (first time in my life) for sleep and have taken an average of .3mg per day during that time. It is an average because I have not maintained a regular dose. The last week has been .25mg or less per day. I have now learned how dangerous this drug is and I have begun a hopefully quick taper. Starting at .125mg before bed, once a day and see how that goes for a few days. Any thoughts on that plan would be appreciated. My depression right now is deeper than it has ever been. I have lost 20 pounds in the last 6 weeks. It has affected my work for the first time ever. I have horrible insomnia, no appetite, mental fatigue It is ruining my life. I have to fight! The temptation to seek a quick medical fix is strong but so is the fear of what can happen long term. How do you survive the darkest days without meds? Is it possible to get my life back naturally?

[Rhiannon]

Given your condition I would not be doing such a drastic taper off Xanax if I were you. In fact if it were me and I were in the shape you're in right now (which I have been, believe me!) I would just stabilize at 0.25 mg Xanax a day and not do any cutting or tapering of anything until I was feeling more stable. I do realize you want to get off of it, and it's up to you, but after 24 days of regular use even someone who was stable and doing great would have trouble tolerating a 50% cut. And you are not someone who is stable and doing great.

 

Check the benzo section for members, there is a thread there about why people switch to Valium in which I explained the problem with Xanax being short acting. (I am not saying you should switch, just that I know that thread has that information in it because I just wrote it.)

 

Before tapering Xanax I would recommend you find a dosing schedule with multiple doses per day and get your blood levels evened out. In your condition the last thing you need is roller-coaster benzo levels causing anxiety attacks. Best to stick with exactly the same amount every day, divided into equal doses so that you are taking some about every four hours.

 

Please do some reading. I know it's hard to concentrate in the shape you're in, but there's a lot to learn. I don't know your history, but if your mood problems are primarily iatrogenic like they are for most of us, yes, with care and much much time, you will be able to stabilize and feel much better.

 

I recommend, when you can, getting a copy of the book Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker. Read the chapter on ADs and how they have turned what used to be a once or twice in a lifetime event into a chronic problem for most people.

 

Also, please put your full drug history (drugs you've taken, when you started, when you stopped, changes in dose, changes in meds, how fast you changed, whether you tapered and how fast, etc.) in your sig line, like this:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Everything you describe sounds like exactly what I and many others have experienced during psych med withdrawal, be it benzos or ADs or some other thing.

 

It's a journey and you're just at the start. Things will get better. Hang in there.

[Rocket4]

Thank you Rhi. I had asked for some help on a different site and it was suggested that since I had only been on them for a relatively short time that I could make the 50% cut and monitor the effects. I have .5mg pills that I can cut into quarters with a pill cutter. In your experience, how soon would you expect wd symptoms to appear if there were going to be trouble? I thought that 48-72 hours was the line for most people. I definitely do not want to press my luck and have a bad reaction to which there is no cure or treatment. But I also do not want to be on xanax any longer than I already have because the longer you go the higher the risk as well. Boy, my life has really changed in the last month. Wow. Thanks again for your quick and detailed response!

[mammaP]

Hi Rocket, welcome to SA.  I don't know very much about benzos but will say that Rhi is very 

knowledgeable and I would take on board what she suggests. Many of us have  rushed a taper

believing that it was best and then ended up here with withdrawal. You are suffering enough without

having even more symptoms piled on to complicate things! 

 

This will pass, and things will get better, no-one knows when, but it does. 

[rapunzel2]

as a natural alternative, I would suggest this: http://www.hardynutritionals.com/products/1-daily-essential-nutrients

if you don't have sensitivities for vitamins-minerals.

[mammaP]

I would be very careful with supplements when the nervous system is compromised by withdrawal. 

I have a cupboard full of all kinds of stuff that's meant to work, all it's done is taken my money

over the years. Many of them can make things worse   .

[Nikki]

I am in a chronic state of fear as well.  Like Rhi said it is from chronic use of and mixtures of AD's over the years.  In talking to my daughter last night about all of this her suggestion was to start doing things....fun things, getting out, maybe a movie, shopping, walking outdoors.

 

What happens in the acute phases of WD is that we do nothing except work and worry and feel lousy and immobilized.  Any tme of joy is squeezed out of the picture.

 

I think she is right......like your thread says....I too want to stop the fear.  Thank goodness we can come here.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Rocket4.

 

I moved yours and lobster's posts from lobster's topic because they give us more information about your situation.

 

After your recent attempt with Zoloft and Lexapro, it sounds like your nervous system finally got sensitized to psychiatric drugs. It needs to settle down from the adverse drug reactions. This can take a while.

 

I bow to Rhi when it comes to managing benzos. While you've been taking Xanax consistently for a fairly short time, it's long enough to become physiologically dependent on it.

 

Depressive symptoms can also be a side effect of benzos. Welcome to the psych drug merry-go-round!

 

The good news is, armed with understanding what's going on, you can manage your symptoms and eventually go off everything with careful tapering.

[Rhiannon]

Thank you Rhi. I had asked for some help on a different site and it was suggested that since I had only been on them for a relatively short time that I could make the 50% cut and monitor the effects. I have .5mg pills that I can cut into quarters with a pill cutter. In your experience, how soon would you expect wd symptoms to appear if there were going to be trouble? I thought that 48-72 hours was the line for most people. I definitely do not want to press my luck and have a bad reaction to which there is no cure or treatment. But I also do not want to be on xanax any longer than I already have because the longer you go the higher the risk as well. Boy, my life has really changed in the last month. Wow. Thanks again for your quick and detailed response!

 

Rocket, this isn't a clear cut black and white situation, unfortunately. There's not an obvious or good solution. Since you're already experiencing acute withdrawal symptoms (probably from all those recent changes and bouncing around with the ADs) at this point any change in the Xanax is probably going to make things worse.  But you want to quit it, so you're going to have to make changes.

 

Because of my own extreme sensitivity to psych meds and changes in them, combined with the fact that I have no financial slack whatsoever (if I can't work I can't pay the rent, I have no significant savings), my own approach is to stabilize first and worry about tapers later, and then to taper in such a way that I experience minimal disruptive symptoms and I can continue to work and have a life.

 

So if I were in your shoes right now I would probably tend to just stay on the Xanax until I became stable from all the other crap and everything had settled down (which given your current symptoms would I think take a couple of months at least), and then I would do a slow taper. It would mean that I would be stuck on the Xanax for a while, but for me it would be worth the tradeoff because I don't have the option of being that sick, I've already been through that and lost everything.

 

So that would be the route I would take. I, however, am not you, and it sounds like you want to get off the Xanax now. 

 

Hmmm...trying to triage your situation...I think immediately, two things. First, please do divide up your tablet. Xanax is short acting and as it wears off people often get an increase in anxiety and panic, and it sounds like those are what you're really struggling with most right now. You need to keep your blood levels as even and smooth as possible, and the way to do that is to take multiple doses over the course of the 24 hour day. I generally recommend taking some every four hours. So, see if you can do that by cutting the tablets you have.

 

Thing two is, really examine your options. Why do you want off the Xanax immediately? What is your primary concern? Ordinarily, if someone was feeling well and just wanted to get off fast, I would say go for it. In your case, given how ill you already are, I am not sure if the tradeoff of getting off faster is going to be worth the additional suffering.  After 24 days you're already dependent enough to have withdrawal symptoms.

 

Xanax is not really that toxic, compared to ADs. The most dangerous thing about Xanax IMO is that it's so addictive and can cause people to feel like you're feeling now when they try to get off of it--but you're already there, so it's too late to avoid that.

 

If it's your decision to cut fast then I'd say try a 25% cut. I don't think it's a great idea for you, though. If you decide to stay on it and taper more slowly later, then I'd say focus on getting those doses evened out.

[Rocket4]

Thanks to all of you for your support and advice. I have gotten a prescription for .25mg xanax so that I can split them into quarters and take them more often. I am going to start with .0625 x 4 per day. I am really hoping to be able to stabilize for a couple of days and then try and move to 3x per day. I find it amazing as well as incredibly frustrating that none of the professionals I have spoken to think that there is any chance that I am dependent on xanax. This includes my primary care doc, therapist and pharmacist. My family and friends all think I am just letting the internet scare me. And some of them are taking xanax! This is a predicament from Hell. I feel like I need to do something fast before my life gets any more out of control but the fast thing (stopping xanax quickly and starting an AD that actually works for me which is a crap shoot at best) could end up being the worst thing. The toll that this is taking on my wife is unbearable to me. I am fighting with every ounce of strength I have to pull out of this nose dive. Rhi, your knowledge and detailed explanation are outstanding. I can cut the pills into 6ths but they will not be even doses, would it be better to take some every 4 hours even if the doses are uneven as opposed to every 6 hours with doses that are pretty close? The reason I want to be off of the xanax quickly is mainly the fear of getting any deeper into this drug. It is on my mind 24/7 since learning about the horror stories of benzo wd. So my mind is now saying, no matter what, get off this thing NOW. Rhi, in your experience, is it possible to taper xanax slowly enough to avoid any real symptoms? It may also be a bit of wishful thinking and denial about how dependent I may already be. Maybe the Dr. is right... Maybe I could come off with just a few days of feeling sick... The other issue is whether or not to try another AD. I apologize if that is unacceptable to say on this site but my depression is so deep and my circumstances so dire (many people are depending on me) that if I don't turn this around soon then I cannot imagine how I could ever turn it around. Rhi, you lost everything. I am truly sorry for that. How did you find the strength to keep going after that? Again, forgive me for being dramatic but 3 straight weeks of crippling insomnia will soften up the hardest of souls. Thank you to all of you for your help and encouragement!

[Altostrata]

Please keep in mind that, if your system has been sensitized by the AD switching, they may never effect you the same way again. Taking even small amounts might cause adverse effects. When this happens -- it is iatrogenic or drug-caused -- doctors often call it "treatment resistance" and progress to ECT, which may only make you feel worse.

 

Iatrogenic symptoms cannot be treated as psychiatric disorders.

[Rocket4]

Thanks Altostrata. How can someone tell if they are in such a sensitized state? I have tried 2 AD's a total of 5 times over the past 6 years. Lexapro and Zoloft. It is common for there to be start up side effects that may last for a while and many people have to try a number of different meds and combinations before finding the one that works for them. (That seems to be the consensus). The Major depressive episode that I am currently going through is worse than any I have experienced due to the insomnia and now my dependence on xanax which is weighing on me heavily. I want to do something before it is too late. Before I lose everything. I began taking 5mg of Paxil today. My plan is to start low and see how I feel in a few days. I see my primary care Dr. on Monday. In the past 2 months my life has been turned upside down and I want to wake up from this nightmare. I don't know what else to do. I hate taking any meds but given the severity of my symptoms and the downward spiral it seems like it is my best option.

[Altostrata]

This indicates you have been sensitized:

 

Switched to Zoloft (25mg) just like I had 3 years earlier but the start up side effects were also very unpleasant so I stopped after 10 days. It was during this 2 week period that my sleep issues began to worsen dramatically.

 

 

Your current "major depressive episode" is most likely iatrogenic (drug-caused).

 

As for any "consensus" about antidepressants, for the most part it has been engineered by drug companies. Having serious adverse effects on startup is a sign the drug is not getting along with your nervous system, probably because of too-high initial dosing. If you stay on the drug for years, stressing your nervous system (whether you feel it or not), this causes long-term problems.

[Rocket4]

Scary stuff. I appreciate your explanation though. There were some stress triggers that I had going on that definitely contributed to the onset of the depression as well as the anxiety and insomnia. I'm not saying that you are wrong, just trying to put this together while not going totally insane. Thank you.