Jump to content
Wolfhound

Dr. Yolande Lucire: Adverse Reactions to Psychiatric Drugs

Recommended Posts

ang

Abstract
Context: Violence towards others is a seldom-studied adverse drug event and an atypical one because the risk of injury
extends to others.
Objective: To identify the primary suspects in adverse drug event reports describing thoughts or acts of violence towards
others, and assess the strength of the association.
Methodology: From the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) Adverse Event Reporting System (AERS) data, we extracted all
serious adverse event reports for drugs with 200 or more cases received from 2004 through September 2009. We identified
any case report indicating homicide, homicidal ideation, physical assault, physical abuse or violence related symptoms.
Main Outcome Measures: Disproportionality in reporting was defined as a) 5 or more violence case reports, B) at least twice
the number of reports expected given the volume of overall reports for that drug, c) a x2 statistic indicating the violence
cases were unlikely to have occurred by chance (p,0.01).
Results: We identified 1527 cases of violence disproportionally reported for 31 drugs. Primary suspect drugs included
varenicline (an aid to smoking cessation), 11 antidepressants, 6 sedative/hypnotics and 3 drugs for attention deficit
hyperactivity disorder. The evidence of an association was weaker and mixed for antipsychotic drugs and absent for all but 1
anticonvulsant/mood stabilizer. Two or fewer violence cases were reported for 435/484 (84.7%) of all evaluable drugs
suggesting that an association with this adverse event is unlikely for these drugs.
Conclusions: Acts of violence towards others are a genuine and serious adverse drug event associated with a relatively
small group of drugs. Varenicline, which increases the availability of dopamine, and antidepressants with serotonergic
effects were the most strongly and consistently implicated drugs. Prospective studies to evaluate systematically this side
effect are needed to establish the incidence, confirm differences among drugs and identify additional common features.
Citation: Moore TJ, Glenmullen J, Furberg CD (2010) Prescription Drugs Associated with Reports of Violence Towards Others. PLoS ONE 5(12): e15337.
doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0015337

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ang
"In times of universal deceit, TRUTH becomes a revolutionary act!" Who was it who said "...that for evil to prevail it takes a few good people to do nothing?" 

Dr.Peter Breggin in the U.S. of America, Dr. David Healy in the U.K. and now at last a hero in Australia a champion of human rights and the right to informed consent, exposing the very information withheld from those treated involuntary without INFORMED consent.

Wake up Australia before your next prescription drug puts you over the edge...
Posted by foucault, Wednesday, 12 January 2011 12:06:37 PM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cheeky

She is s great lady and she wants people to join her commity, I will tell you more about it when I see her .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NJJ

Hi Everyone,

 

After being completely fed up with my current situation and not being able to find a doctor who can get to the bottom of it, I stumbled across this fantastic site. I have had a lot of contact with Dr Yolande Lucire who completely understands every thing Im going through. She has worked out that I had a severe reaction to an antibiotic and anti nausea drug while being on Zoloft (which I knew from the beginning but no dr would listen). She has suggested the gene test which I'm going to get done.

 

I have been on zoloft for twenty years. At 15 I was put on 50mg for generalized anxiety. In my early twenties I decided to tamper down as my life was great and I didn't want to be putting anymore poison in my body. The GP said you will have no worries as it's a small dose. So I halved it over about a month and felt fine, then the nightmare began. The withdrawal symptoms were so severe that I had six weeks off work. The GP put my dose up to 75mg. That's when I started having these fits, like a seizure but without the loss of conciousness. It is like a jolt of electricity through my body and spine that makes my muscles spasm. I went to the drs who said its basically in your head. Ever since then I have muscle jerks and spasms when I'm stressed. I have continued on this dose ever since and just got on with my life thinking I will never get off this drug or do I ever want to go through that experience again. Currently I am reliving this nightmare and not from tampering but through a drug interaction. I'm still getting to the bottom of it but basically I have had six weeks off work, deferred uni and still have many symptoms. In addition it has taken a lot of research and patience to find a Dr who has confirmed that I indeed have a toxic reaction. Ever since I took the antibiotic and was given an anti nausea drug I have had the exact symptoms of withdrawal, tremor, extreme nervousness, whole body shaking for 5 days straight, inability to sit down, fits of anger, crying spells, brain zaps, thoughts sticking, nausea, loss of appetite and many more. Most of my symptoms are slowly disappearing and I have good and bad days. If I over do it I get weak and shaky. I still get brain zaps, jolts in my body and extreme tiredness. I have another skype appointment with Dr Lucire this week. She's such a lovely lady.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cheeky

That is so good to hear that you liked her.

I have also been on a antidepreesant for 20 years and when i tried to half my dose the same thing happened. I feel so sorry for you and the nightmare you must of indured. I have seen Dr Youande and she is a ver intelligent lady , she's been helping me as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JanCarol

I haven't finished reading the thread, but when I went to "adversereactionsaustralia.com" I got a login page, that this was a private site, and I needed a login to continue.  Please update?  Fresh?  Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JanCarol

Hey NJJ - please start an introduction thread for yourself in the introduction forum:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/3-introductions-and-updates/- you can copy and paste from your second paragraph here to get started.  

 

Please, also, put your drug history in your signature, so that we can see "at a glance" where you have come from and what you have been through:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Now:  Dr. Lucire.  If she can adapt to the SA protocol of 10% or less per month, I think she has something that nobody else seems to be offering.

 

Maybe, because I'm not a scientist or a doctor, my understanding is incorrect - but in the video on page 1 of this thread, she talked about "excitors" and "inhibitors" and how they affect different genetic profiles.  Her genetic profiling might be able to untangle the gnarly knot of polypharmacy - which drug to taper first, as she said something about - if you go off of 2 inhibitors at the same time, you will cause more problems.  She may be onto something that I haven't heard anywhere else.

 

It's always a question that makes us mods bang our heads:  polypharmacy.  Which to come off first?  Obviously the most activating with the most side effects - but sometimes - it is so complex and long term, that is not always clear.  Having a genetic marker saying, here or here  are where most of the problems lie, and that is where you should start to reduce the side effect profile most effectively.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fresh

Hi all ,    The website  is having  "work done" and will be back in about a week or so (straight from the horses' mouth).

 

In the meantime , Yola is happy to be contacted via email:     Lucire@ozemail.com.au

 

JanCarol , you may want to email Yola with your questions.  

I'm trying to learn how we can use genetic information/knowledge to inform us which meds. (e.g. antibiotics)  are safe and which aren't. 

I want to avoid a situation where I have an adverse reaction to an antibiotic that might have been predicted.   It's related to which genes are used to metabolize

different drugs , and this is where I feel the genetic profiling can be personally useful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NJJ

Fresh

 

I asked Yola if the gene test would be useful and she said it may deffently help to prevent further adverse reactions. I think it would be most useful for someone on multiple drugs. I think I understand now what happened to me. I'm just looking at the report she gave me.

Bactrim (antibiotic) is an inhibitor of CyP2c8, oct2 and cyp2c9. Caution must be administered with drugs that are substrates of cyp2c8, 2c9 and oct2. Zoloft is a sub inhibitor of cyp2c9.

When I read it I was like huh! But basically yola said the antibiotic blocked the zoloft and it wasn't getting metabolized, causing a build up and making the dose go so high that it lead to toxicity. She said not everyone will have the same reaction, what differs from me and someone else is down to genetics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
westcoast

that's so good to know--for you I mean. why can't all doctors know/do those things?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Meimeiquest

Genomind and, I believe, another company, offer this testing in the US.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Altostrata

Please note that not all adverse reactions are explained by liver enzyme conflicts. Only a subset of adverse reactions are related to this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Meimeiquest

Please note that not all adverse reactions are explained by liver enzyme conflicts. Only a subset of adverse reactions are related to this.

I will also say that I had this done as it was required by one of my docs. I am an ultra-rapid metabolizer via an isoenzyme that many psych drugs (that I took) go through, associated with the most problems. My pdoc thought it was "extremely significant." But I don't think my experience was substantially different from others' here because of that. I believe the Genomind testing costs $600 if you pay for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Altostrata

The danger for rapid metabolizers is excessive medication rather than liver enzyme conflicts. Doctors will keep ramping up dosage to get an effect on a rapid metabolizer, moving into overdose territory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
westcoast

Grim.

Meieme, thanks for the info.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Meimeiquest

In theory, you could see metabolizes building up because the original drug is processed very fast, metabolites not so fast. The isoenzyme a are stage 1 liver metabolism, other processes through the liver stage 2. You would also be more prone to inter dose withdrawal. The video says it is associated with a five-fold increase in suicide rates. I'm not exactly sure why.

 

A friend's son took Zoloft as an eighteen-year-old. Dx of bipolar because unable to sleep. Eventual testing showed he was a slow metabolizer with the isoenzyme Zoloft goes through, so active drug was not moving as expected and he was having a very typical overstimulation reaction to a virtual overdose. Oh well, it only took three years of his life to figure that out. I don't see why you need testing to know that someone who can't sleep on an AD is getting too much, or maybe is having an adverse reaction. But in three years, meds were only added, Zoloft was never considered to have anything to do with the situation,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Altostrata

I agree, simple discussion with patients should be enough to ascertain if adverse effects are occurring.

 

About rapid metabolizers -- it depends on what the metabolites are, whether they would build up in the liver. Many metabolites are not active or are processed outside of the liver (through the kidneys, for instance).

 

The dangers for rapid metabolizers are not at all the same as for poor metabolizers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
oskcajga

 

 

I'm not sure if this has been posted, I didn't get any results when I searched for Yolande Lucire, but the basic gist from this entire lecture is that all of these cases of akathesia and subsequent suicides and homocides were due to people being prescribed medication that was causing a toxic level to accumulate in the blood due to a genetically low level of an enzyme that metabolizes the drug.   This, and when polydrugged, some enzyme systems are inhibited, causing high levels to accumulate in the bloodstream of another medication.

 

Now if only I could find a video like this about people recovering from these toxic effects, and the long term outcome, the cause, and some scientific hope, I'd be totally satisfied.  But at least the above video might explain why some people (like myself) react very strongly to these medications while others do not.

 

Of couse the psyciatrists think all patients are exactly alike, spend 15 minutes with each patient, have no follow up for several weeks, and then take no responsibility for their own destruction.  Utterly irresponsible and a menace to society is what psychiatrists are in my ey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NJJ

Hi Oskcagja,

 

Yes this very interesting video has been posted on this site, there is a thread on here somewhere. There are quite a few of us here in Australia that have her as our doctor. I contacted her about my current situation and she confirmed that I did indeed have an adverse drug reaction resulting in mild akathisia.  She has recommended that I get the gene test done to prevent future reactions, it costs $150 here. Sadly all her research and reporting to authorities about these drugs falls on deaf ears because of mass corruption.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
oskcajga

Hi Oskcagja,

 

Yes this very interesting video has been posted on this site, there is a thread on here somewhere. There are quite a few of us here in Australia that have her as our doctor. I contacted her about my current situation and she confirmed that I did indeed have an adverse drug reaction resulting in mild akathisia.  She has recommended that I get the gene test done to prevent future reactions, it costs $150 here. Sadly all her research and reporting to authorities about these drugs falls on deaf ears because of mass corruption.  

 

Welp, does she offer any advice in regards to how long it takes to heal or how the healing process happens from a toxic reaction to these medications?  If she's someone's doctor, maybe you can help share with the world some of her wisdom in regards to how long most people take to heal, or if healing completely is even an option. 

 

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NJJ

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6383-dr-yolande-lucire-adverse-reactions-to-psychiatric-drugs/

 

This is the thread I was talking about. I'm still getting used to this site and I'm not very good with technical things, so I didn't know how to merge the topics.

 

I have had contacted with her only by skype and email but I wonder if you can email her about your situation. I have read some of her literature and she has stated most of her patients recover from toxic psychosis within 18 months. Btw how do you do the grey text if you know what I mean?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
oskcajga

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6383-dr-yolande-lucire-adverse-reactions-to-psychiatric-drugs/

 

This is the thread I was talking about. I'm still getting used to this site and I'm not very good with technical things, so I didn't know how to merge the topics.

 

I have had contacted with her only by skype and email but I wonder if you can email her about your situation. I have read some of her literature and she has stated most of her patients recover from toxic psychosis within 18 months. Btw how do you do the grey text if you know what I mean?

 

no idea how to get grey text. 

 

18 months seems to be correct for recovering from the psychosis itself.  I had a form of toxic psycosis due to a combination of marijuana, and adderall + SSRI withdrawals.  It took about 9 months before I was more or less fully recovered from the psycosis.  But I still have a BUNCH of lingering effects from everything, I wonder how long those tend to take to heal.  From what I've read on the internet, the success story folks tend to take 3-7 years or so from the last pill to fully recover.  So I have some time.  It's only been 8 months since I stopped taking adderall, so that might be a more realistic time point.

 

Dunno.

 

Thanks for the link.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
oskcajga

Hi Everyone,

 

After being completely fed up with my current situation and not being able to find a doctor who can get to the bottom of it, I stumbled across this fantastic site. I have had a lot of contact with Dr Yolande Lucire who completely understands every thing Im going through. She has worked out that I had a severe reaction to an antibiotic and anti nausea drug while being on Zoloft (which I knew from the beginning but no dr would listen). She has suggested the gene test which I'm going to get done.

 

I have been on zoloft for twenty years. At 15 I was put on 50mg for generalized anxiety. In my early twenties I decided to tamper down as my life was great and I didn't want to be putting anymore poison in my body. The GP said you will have no worries as it's a small dose. So I halved it over about a month and felt fine, then the nightmare began. The withdrawal symptoms were so severe that I had six weeks off work. The GP put my dose up to 75mg. That's when I started having these fits, like a seizure but without the loss of conciousness. It is like a jolt of electricity through my body and spine that makes my muscles spasm. I went to the drs who said its basically in your head. Ever since then I have muscle jerks and spasms when I'm stressed. I have continued on this dose ever since and just got on with my life thinking I will never get off this drug or do I ever want to go through that experience again. Currently I am reliving this nightmare and not from tampering but through a drug interaction. I'm still getting to the bottom of it but basically I have had six weeks off work, deferred uni and still have many symptoms. In addition it has taken a lot of research and patience to find a Dr who has confirmed that I indeed have a toxic reaction. Ever since I took the antibiotic and was given an anti nausea drug I have had the exact symptoms of withdrawal, tremor, extreme nervousness, whole body shaking for 5 days straight, inability to sit down, fits of anger, crying spells, brain zaps, thoughts sticking, nausea, loss of appetite and many more. Most of my symptoms are slowly disappearing and I have good and bad days. If I over do it I get weak and shaky. I still get brain zaps, jolts in my body and extreme tiredness. I have another skype appointment with Dr Lucire this week. She's such a lovely lady.

 

Probably a good idea for you to slowly taper off this poison, staying on it might stabilize you but it's obviously terrible stuff that cannot really do anything good for your body.  You're going to have to eventually get off of this medication, unless you want to be on it for life (I'm not sure if someone your age could even theoretically pull off that task)...but if you taper slowly over time you should be able to recover. 

 

you might want to take a year or two off of school and work if you can once you begin your taper.  Perhaps get things in order while you're on the stuff, and then when you decide to go off, expect no less than 6 months of extreme difficulty.   Unfortunately there's not too many ways to avoid the long withdrawals other than a SLOW SLOW taper over a loooonnng period of time.  If you do it slow enough, you might not even notice any effects until you get off of it completely.

 

Good luck, this website is the only resource you should trust when getting off of these medications.  99% of doctors know absolutely nothing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
btdt

I agree, simple discussion with patients should be enough to ascertain if adverse effects are occurring.

 

About rapid metabolizers -- it depends on what the metabolites are, whether they would build up in the liver. Many metabolites are not active or are processed outside of the liver (through the kidneys, for instance).

 

The dangers for rapid metabolizers are not at all the same as for poor metabolizers.

Would that not cause a kidney problem if they build up in there?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NJJ

Just an update. I am actually starting to recover from the severe reaction I had between zoloft and antibiotics. After three months I am able to go back to being somewhat normal although not 100% I can go out and enjoy simple things without feeling like I'm being electrocuted throughout my whole brain & body and the other dreadful symptoms I have experienced. I can actually write on a piece of paper and make a cup of tea without shaking! So now that I have acquired the extensive information from this fantastic website and know that I have SA support and Dr Lucire I feel more confident in the withdrawal process. But I won't attempt this until I make a full recovery. I did ask Dr Lucire about people like me who have been on this drugs for a long period of time and wether or not their serotonin receptors can fully recover from being so flooded and could the receptors be completely destroyed and is that why some people can never get off AD. She unfortunatly does not know and said it's just someone's theory. Does anyone else know about this?

 

BTW, if there is anyone from Brisbane, Dr Lucire recommended a dr but I forgot to ask if she knows about withdrawal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fresh

So , just getting back to the topic , Dr Lucire's new website is  drlucire.com

 

She will bulk-bill on request (in Australia that means the total cost is covered by the government) and offers Skype sessions.  

She can currently take on new patients , and requires a referral from a G.P.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ZombieMode

So glad to have found this thread on Dr Lucire. Thanks!

Is anyone here on a community treatment order with her as their treating psychiatrist? Would love to switch over to her!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fresh

Hi Zombiemode ,   are you in Sydney?

Dr Lucire sees alot of patients on CTO's , and has had a number of successes recently with the

Mental Health Review Tribunal so that the orders facilitate tapering.   

She's lovely , email her.  Message me if you'd like to chat.

 

Best wishes ,  Fresh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
nz11

Hooray thanks for bumping this i wanted to find and read this article again.

Got confused by Fresh changing avatars.

 

Anyone understand this:

The Author: Dr Yolande Lucire PhD MBBS DPM FRANZCP is a forensic psychiatrist and medical anthropologist in private practice. She researches and writes about hysteria and moral panics, and is surprised to find a panic worth having that is hard to start.

 

I give up i know of no panic worth having that is hard to start. ????

Something very forensically puzzling about this ...is it a 'pan-car' a Greek automobile ? Could be hard to start but going by looks i dont know if its worth having!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fresh

Where is this article of which you speak nz?   (halloween avatar this week  :) )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ZombieMode

Hi Zombiemode ,   are you in Sydney?

Dr Lucire sees alot of patients on CTO's , and has had a number of successes recently with the

Mental Health Review Tribunal so that the orders facilitate tapering.   

She's lovely , email her.  Message me if you'd like to chat.

 

Best wishes ,  Fresh

 

About an hour out of Sydney, definitely worth the trip in to see her from what i've read so far :) 

 

any clues how I must go about transferring from my current CTO psychiatrist to her? Will send her an email now, thanks Fresh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
nz11

Hey the ol aussie sun has come back out...post #1 thats where.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.