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NoMeaning25

Auto immune diseases triggered by SSRI Withdrawal

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NoMeaning25   
NoMeaning25

I feel this is very important. Is there any articles on this? And does the auto immune diseases heal as the withdrawal heals, or is the person stuck with the disease?

 

Reason im asking, ive had problems since coming off antidepressants and have been diagnosed with the following:

 

Fibrocystic Breast Disease (Proper diagnosis)

interstitial Cystitis (Proper diagnosis)

Possible Endometriosis (Dont have a definite diagnosis as cannot go for laparoscopy, but doctor strongly thinks i have this)

 

I probably have dysautonomia, chronic fatigue syndrome and a host of other things as well

 

So basically what i need to know is, will it go away or is this permanent?

 

Alto, in a thread you said some rare people develop auto immune diseases in withdrawal. Is there really any hope left or am i in the minority of people who will really not recover?

I mean 23 months free and i am doing WORSE than ever. 

 

I have constant fl, infections etc etc etc it never stops.

 

Before this i was healthy, before i went on this rubbish i was healthy.

 

Look, obviously im scared to death, so i would appreciate 100% honesty. If there isnt much hope for me, just tell me and i will accept it.

 

 

 

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Meimeiquest   
Meimeiquest

Olivia, have you looked into the possibility of copper overload causing these symptoms. You can do a google search on it, or mensahmedical.com has a video in the resources section. I am doing a paleo autoimmune diet and it seems to be helping a lot. You can google that as well. I don't know that I have an AI disease, but it also lowers inflammation.

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Phil   
Phil

I am also following an autoimmune style diet at the moment. I like the one from thepaleomom. It's quite restrictive - mostly meats, veggies and coconut fat, but it has helped me feel a lot better. 

 

I avoid foods like nuts, seeds, grains, dairy, cocoa etc as much as possible as they always seem to trigger me. My fatigue has greatly diminished and my brain works better since adopting this diet. 

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Phil   
Phil

You might also want to look into the histamine intolerance thread, as some of us struggle with HI when coming off meds. I personally have issues with most high histamine foods and they greatly affect my mental state. 

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mammaP   
mammaP

I also have fibrocystic breast disease and it did actually develop after starting ADs. It did settle down

but can't remember when. Dysautonomia is dysfunction of the nervous system and has many causes

including withdrawal.  Fibromyalgia, ME/ CFS all have similar symptoms to withdrawal and side effects

of SSRIs, I have friends who were diagnosed with fibro after stopping effexor. One doctor believed I had 

CFS then another mentioned fibro but I know it is from the effexor and withdrawal. 

 

I know this is hard for you Olivia but it will get better than this. I tried the paleo type diet too and it helped

a great deal, maybe it would help you too. I let it slide when I was moving house and I felt worse so I am

working on getting back to it because I felt so much better on it. 

 

Give it a try, you may be surprised! 

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rapunzel2   
rapunzel2

have you looked into gluten and autoimmune connection?

 

I'm on gluten-free-casein-free diet. it seems to help!

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dekiru   
dekiru

I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia the first time I came off SSRI. I now believe the burning joints pains and tiredness are withdrawal as the symptoms stopped when I was put back on the SSRI and re-started on stopping it again. I'm 28 months off and the pains are much better than they were 8 months ago. I discovered the pain gets much worse if I eat gluten, dairy, soy, nuts, high histamine or refined sugars. They are non-existent if I avoid all those things.

Hope this helps and hope things improve for you soon.

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Altostrata   
Altostrata

I do think withdrawal syndrome can trigger autoimmune diseases, either through dysautonomia or changes in gut function.

 

I developed the thyroid antibodies for Hashimoto's thyroiditis myself about 9 months into withdrawal syndrome. Physiological stress and cortisol overload is thought to be among the causes of this.

 

Autoimmune diseases are now thought to be related to overall inflammation. It may be possible to lower overall inflammation with, for example, anti-inflammatory diets. According to alternative health practitioners, this can slow or eliminate autoimmune reactions.

 

Anecdotally, people do report feeling better.

 

Inflammation in the gut makes the gut less efficient at breaking down foods and more permeable, allowing the release of irritants into the bloodstream. These irritants contribute to inflammation and increase autoimmune activity as the body's defense system tries to go after the invaders. This becomes a chronic cycle.

 

Conventional medicine is completely mystified by autoimmune diseases. However, a lot of research is now being done on the role of digestion and gut bacteria in systemic inflammation.

 

I agree, look into the low-histamine diets or anti-inflammatory diets. (Paleo not so much if you want low histamine; meats tend to be high in histamine.)

 

It could very well be that histamine-producing foods or unhappy gut bacteria contribute to some of the alerting symptoms we see in withdrawal syndrome. Trying an anti-inflammatory diet might help a lot of people.

 

For example, see http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/ART02012/anti-inflammatory-diet

 

A low-histamine diet is more restrictive, see http://www.histamineintolerance.org.uk/about/the-food-diary/the-food-list

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Phil   
Phil

I've found this very helpful for basic eating guidelines....the only problem being the high meat content:

 

http://www.thepaleomom.com/autoimmunity/the-autoimmune-protocol

 

I like how it eliminates most problematic foods like nuts, grains, seeds, spices etc and emphasizes vegetables. I've found most spices and seeds seem to aggravate my immune system and cause a stress response. 

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Meimeiquest   
Meimeiquest

Something I read yesterday (what, who?) said elevated stress hormones increase intestinal permeability, so I guess they could directly cause AI issues in withdrawal. At least I know I am a walking bundle of stress hormones.

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overcomer58   
overcomer58

I too am almost a year into Zoloft withdrawal and just last month have been told I am positive for Autoimmune. I was tested two months after stopping Zoloft and was negative for Autoimmune..but HAVE been a walking stress case this whole year.. Slowly recovering and healing.. I am retaking my ANA test among other blood tests, and will be seeing a Rheumatologist soon.. I think it is my thyroid if anything ( have been hypothyroid in the past..which healed itself).. or my body is just suffering from my overactive nervous system and anxiety. I started an anti-inflammatory diet today actually. I am curious to see how that affects my body..

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Jason   
Jason

This wouldn't surprise me in the slightest one bit.

 

I really really 100% believe that there is a strong role between a healthy nervous system and a healthy immune system. I am so over-run and worn down. Never been sicker in my life.

 

What helps me - avoiding irritating foods, etc. And SUPPLEMENTS with specifically the following for healthy immune: zinc - I had to have been low in this, I could feel the difference the same day for goodness sake! - also vitamin C and lactoferrin. When I began the lactoferrin I felt so sick! immediately after taking it - why? massive die off of toxic pathogens in the body. Of course these aren't miracles and my body "got used" to these supplements so much that I'm almost back at square one, feeling over-run and sick. But I tried stopping the supplements and it got worse.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that the immune system suffers greatly during withdrawal, both from the stress of withdrawal and the withdrawal itself. Serotonin activates cells in our immune system and when that is too low or too high which is probably the case in withdrawal, who knows what is really going on to our immune function.

 

May we all heal fast.

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Jason   
Jason

Oh I just wanted to add - I feel you about being so long off and thinking it's actually WORSE now. Let's see, I have been off all serotonergic agents since Feb 20, 2012, so that is about 2.5 years off. I have so many symptoms popping up now that I didn't have earlier, but looking back so many are gone that I did have... but some come back and then go away again. It's so hard to know what's up or what's down. It can take years. I have read and been told. Maybe even several... I was on for about 10 years. And the last 5 or so were generally negative expereiences on the drugs, with the last year being completely a nightmare because I had adverse reactions to them then, not just withdrawal or poop out, but actual bad experiences. I think that's why this is taking so long for me. I spent the greater part of my 20s on them, when the mind is fully developed but there is still a lot of neuro-stabilization that has to now be all re-done.

 

Bless you for your strength.

 

Jason

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Phil   
Phil

Something I read yesterday (what, who?) said elevated stress hormones increase intestinal permeability, so I guess they could directly cause AI issues in withdrawal. At least I know I am a walking bundle of stress hormones.

 

Makes sense! Apparently athletes who do very stressful training take certain supplements for this reason - colostrum being one of them, I believe. Because of all the cortisol they produce. 

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Phil   
Phil

Something else interesting I have read...are that lectins, found in many foods, but grains/nuts/seeds in particular, actually block serotonin release. So if we are lower in serotonin than the average person...then our bodies probably have less ability to cope with these foods.

 

I've certainly felt a lot better since giving up grains. 

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Morphologie   
Morphologie

This is happening to me, now.  I feel absolutely awful, worse than I've ever felt physically and just tested positive for autoimmune markers.  I was tested 6-8 months ago and did not have any abnormalities.  Yay!  Life just keeps getting better and better.  (And I do eat mostly an anti inflammatory/paleo.) I never imagined after getting through withdrawals I'd end up with a disease feeling worse than ever.  Just unbelievable!  :angry:

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WiggleIt   
WiggleIt

From what I see in my time online so far, some recover all the way, some recover partially, some don't seem to recover.

 

My bladder has also been assassinated. I already had bladd probs, but antidepressants worsened it. Also have made it possibly irreversible, whereas BEFORE meds, maybe my bladd probs could have been reversed.

 

I feel the best option I have is prayer.

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DLB   
DLB

Yep, at the same time as poopout I developed autoimmune arthritis and skin condition that usually shows way before my age.

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btdt   
btdt

The liver doctor I have been seeing sent me to a rhumy guy he said I was fine...something in my blood plus a rash I had on my face made him think something was wrong.  By the time I got to he rhumy guy it was gone of course he did not do any blood work or xrays or anything just looked at me.  Long ago after prozac so in the 90s I was told I have fibro and was treated with you guessed it a tricylic antidepressant.  There are now drugs to treat pain as is effexor and all the others.  Do you see the way this goes. 

 

Long ago Scotty and I had this talk on pp about how a drug causes a problem often life long and once you have this lifelong problem they sell you other drugs to treat it.  All stemming from the first drug they gave you.  Often a drug like the first drug they gave you will "treat" the problem especially if your in withdrawal.  We can only wonder about the very expensive patent drugs to treat Arthritis .. only wonder how many of them are being used to treat what started as a drug reaction. 

 

from wiki 

" Infliximab can cost $19,000 to $22,000 a year pe"

"Enbrel for arthritis is approximately $20,000"

 

and guess what..

"

Enbrel Among Five Drugs to Get Cancer Warnings From FDA

 

even more money to treat the cancer. 

"The drugs in question are Remicade, Simponi, Humira, Cimzia and Enbrel. "

 

I am not saying it was planned... just saying wow what a cash cow. 

 

I believe fibro is categorized as an auto immune disease as for a long time only a pain specialist or a rhumy doc could dx it... but they change their minds a lot with this one so stay tuned. 

peace all

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Zepplin2011   
Zepplin2011

Has anyone had a positive ANA then a neg after wd recovery?

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Zepplin2011   
Zepplin2011

I have been trying to start my own thread on this...anyways, I am producing Autoantibodies now and i initially began poducing them in 2009 after taking generic effexor. I havent been well for 8 months. Has anyone here had a positive ana result or a diagnosed autoimmun disease? I suspect the drugs have played a role in this mainly bc no one in my family except me has any type of autoimmune disease. I have lupus type symptoms.

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WiggleIt   
WiggleIt

The liver doctor I have been seeing sent me to a rhumy guy he said I was fine...something in my blood plus a rash I had on my face made him think something was wrong.  By the time I got to he rhumy guy it was gone of course he did not do any blood work or xrays or anything just looked at me.  Long ago after prozac so in the 90s I was told I have fibro and was treated with you guessed it a tricylic antidepressant.  There are now drugs to treat pain as is effexor and all the others.  Do you see the way this goes. 

 

Long ago Scotty and I had this talk on pp about how a drug causes a problem often life long and once you have this lifelong problem they sell you other drugs to treat it.  All stemming from the first drug they gave you.  Often a drug like the first drug they gave you will "treat" the problem especially if your in withdrawal.  We can only wonder about the very expensive patent drugs to treat Arthritis .. only wonder how many of them are being used to treat what started as a drug reaction. 

 

from wiki 

" Infliximab can cost $19,000 to $22,000 a year pe"

"Enbrel for arthritis is approximately $20,000"

 

and guess what..

"

Enbrel Among Five Drugs to Get Cancer Warnings From FDA

 

even more money to treat the cancer. 

"The drugs in question are Remicade, Simponi, Humira, Cimzia and Enbrel. "

 

I am not saying it was planned... just saying wow what a cash cow. 

 

I believe fibro is categorized as an auto immune disease as for a long time only a pain specialist or a rhumy doc could dx it... but they change their minds a lot with this one so stay tuned. 

peace all

 

I was given tricyclics for pain and those are the same meds that everyone else in my chronic pain support groups get shoved down their throats.  Now, a bunch of people have developed symptoms that their docs say are "unexplainable," but are obviously side effects.

 

I got off under what I was told was a safe taper, but BLAM, obvs I'm here bc my WD is severe.  Overall, I'm one of the least drugged on here, at some of the lowest doses, for way less than most other people, but I am def one of the severest.

 

I just really don't think that chronic physical pain should be treated with off-label psych meds.    

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btdt   
btdt

 

The liver doctor I have been seeing sent me to a rhumy guy he said I was fine...something in my blood plus a rash I had on my face made him think something was wrong.  By the time I got to he rhumy guy it was gone of course he did not do any blood work or xrays or anything just looked at me.  Long ago after prozac so in the 90s I was told I have fibro and was treated with you guessed it a tricylic antidepressant.  There are now drugs to treat pain as is effexor and all the others.  Do you see the way this goes. 

 

Long ago Scotty and I had this talk on pp about how a drug causes a problem often life long and once you have this lifelong problem they sell you other drugs to treat it.  All stemming from the first drug they gave you.  Often a drug like the first drug they gave you will "treat" the problem especially if your in withdrawal.  We can only wonder about the very expensive patent drugs to treat Arthritis .. only wonder how many of them are being used to treat what started as a drug reaction. 

 

from wiki 

" Infliximab can cost $19,000 to $22,000 a year pe"

"Enbrel for arthritis is approximately $20,000"

 

and guess what..

"

Enbrel Among Five Drugs to Get Cancer Warnings From FDA

 

even more money to treat the cancer. 

"The drugs in question are Remicade, Simponi, Humira, Cimzia and Enbrel. "

 

I am not saying it was planned... just saying wow what a cash cow. 

 

I believe fibro is categorized as an auto immune disease as for a long time only a pain specialist or a rhumy doc could dx it... but they change their minds a lot with this one so stay tuned. 

peace all

 

I was given tricyclics for pain and those are the same meds that everyone else in my chronic pain support groups get shoved down their throats.  Now, a bunch of people have developed symptoms that their docs say are "unexplainable," but are obviously side effects.

 

I got off under what I was told was a safe taper, but BLAM, obvs I'm here bc my WD is severe.  Overall, I'm one of the least drugged on here, at some of the lowest doses, for way less than most other people, but I am def one of the severest.

 

I just really don't think that chronic physical pain should be treated with off-label psych meds.    

 

 

That is what got me on this misery train too... prozac for pain in my leg ..it is all in my history... a couple of years into wd I was put in a pain clinic as I had not slept a full night in 2 years then they gave me trycylics then .. which lead to more drugs later.  I hope you can get off and stay off this one.  I know coming off a tricylic is hard but I ended up polly drugges with trycylic and ssri at the same time. Eventually leading to an antipsychotic and more crap after that it is a slippery slope...  drugs the root of some evil that is for sure. 

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btdt   
btdt

Has anyone had a positive ANA then a neg after wd recovery?

Have you? 

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Zepplin2011   
Zepplin2011

 

Has anyone had a positive ANA then a neg after wd recovery?

 

Have you?

No, i am just hoping this is wd related and i dont end up having a life long autoimmune problem.

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btdt   
btdt

I have read on another site about people who are wondering if the ssri drugs they took started the auto immune disorder they have... at the time I read that none of them had been told by a doctor that ssri drugs had been the cause we know how long that takes to get a disorder added to a drug leaflet... very long indeed... first they need to find somebody to do the research and who is going to pay for it... there in lies the problem. 

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Zepplin2011   
Zepplin2011

Well there is a thing called Drug Induced lupus and i think it is known that chemicals (environmental triggers) can lead to autoimmune disease. I believe that the drugs cause immune system dysregulation and this can push the individual toward an auto immune disease. No one in my fam has an autoimmune disease so this is a shocker.

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btdt   
btdt

Well there is a thing called Drug Induced lupus and i think it is known that chemicals (environmental triggers) can lead to autoimmune disease. I believe that the drugs cause immune system dysregulation and this can push the individual toward an auto immune disease. No one in my fam has an autoimmune disease so this is a shocker.

Yes I know my sister has it not sure how long she will be with us. 

there is this but it is about rats

http://rheumatology.oxfordjournals.org/content/37/10/1077.full.pdf

 

  I tried to put a copy paste here of what it says but I can't manage it sorry

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btdt   
btdt

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22251606


 


"


 contemporary investigations have revealed that depression is linked with inflammation, and that SSRI/SNRIs possess significant anti-inflammatory actions. While these anti-inflammatory properties initially only related to work undertaken on cells of the peripheral immune system, it has recently become apparent that these drugs also exert anti-inflammatory effects on microglia, the principal cells within the CNS that regulate and respond to inflammatory factors. "


 


So it would make sense for inflammation to increase after these drugs are stopped( I would suspect cold turkey to be worse than taper but don't know...) They do affect the peripheral immune system... since the immune system is poorly understood who know where we go from there. The affect on the CNS is even more interesting and compelling as we live with that fact daily in withdrawal. 

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NoMeaning25   
NoMeaning25

Still have all of these problems since stopping and now am 29 months free. No signs of it getting better which makes me think its permanent, i have tons of auto immune diseases caused by SSRI's.

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Denstar51   
Denstar51

Hi everyone, I am in my 7th year of w/d, and most horrible symptoms have gone away, but I have what seems to be fibromyalgia in my upper  leg muscles, can this be a symptom of w/d? :(

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Zepplin2011   
Zepplin2011

for anyone experiencing autoimmune type problems, are you getting a positive ANA test?

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btdt   
btdt

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22251606

 

"

 contemporary investigations have revealed that depression is linked with inflammation, and that SSRI/SNRIs possess significant anti-inflammatory actions. While these anti-inflammatory properties initially only related to work undertaken on cells of the peripheral immune system, it has recently become apparent that these drugs also exert anti-inflammatory effects on microglia, the principal cells within the CNS that regulate and respond to inflammatory factors. "

 

So it would make sense for inflammation to increase after these drugs are stopped( I would suspect cold turkey to be worse than taper but don't know...) They do affect the peripheral immune system... since the immune system is poorly understood who know where we go from there. The affect on the CNS is even more interesting and compelling as we live with that fact daily in withdrawal. 

 

 I think the key word here may be regulate... 

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btdt   
btdt

I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia the first time I came off SSRI. I now believe the burning joints pains and tiredness are withdrawal as the symptoms stopped when I was put back on the SSRI and re-started on stopping it again. I'm 28 months off and the pains are much better than they were 8 months ago. I discovered the pain gets much worse if I eat gluten, dairy, soy, nuts, high histamine or refined sugars. They are non-existent if I avoid all those things.

Hope this helps and hope things improve for you soon.

 

The first ssri I was put on for leg pain gave me a severe adverse reaction I was on it less than 2wks.  After that I had more pain tho I was given the drug to treat nerve pain in my leg after an accident... the next 2 years I suffered terribly insomnia was crazy sleeping a couple of hours in 24 and pain everywhere not just in my leg.  After 2 years of suffering like this and upright 2 hours out of 24 either sitting or standing... I did not realize this till I was filling in forms for a pain clinic referal and had to track it for the application.  At the pain clinic the pain specialist dx me with chronic fatigue/fibro and put me on a tricylic antidepressant to treat it called amitriptyline .. He actually had me start the drug a wk before as he said it would take a least that long for me to catch up on some sleep to be able to withstand the program I was to go into.  I did sleep the first 10mg pill I slept for 20 hours... I know stupid considering I was a single parent..and all.  I went in patient to the pain program for 6 wks.  It was difficult to keep up as I had been down so long but I managed and was a lot better after... however side effects oft he amitriptyline were I had to take it at 5-6 pm or I would not wake up till afternoon the next day... withing an hour of taking it I was dizzy and could not see... I could not see well enough to watch tv or walk straight.  So every night after dinner life stopped. I took it for a long time thinking I would be right back to laying down all the time if I did not take it that it was the only game in town.  

After a time I can't recall how long I could not keep up again ... I was not working I was just trying to keep my and my sons home together ...everything else came second and I could not manage that.... so zoloft was added. I had energy again I could do things but intrusive thoughts burst into my head like run the car into the cement barrier and end this. I stayed on it... I know sounds bizarre now knowing what I know... I did not think the craziness was from the drug... as I did not know the craziness I had when on prozac was the drug either... so when the zoloft turned on me I thought I was once again having the craziness that was inately me... the same thing that happened when on prozac... This was the early 90's I did not learn that drugs could and did cause that type of insanity till 2008... about a 20 year wait. 

On the zoloft and tycylic I gained 30 pounds.  I was eventually switched to  paxil... this is getting too long and I forget what I wanted to say. 

sorry... 

A long time ago I found a link to mitochondria damage and chronic fatigue/fibro... I then learned some drugs cause this damage ..prozac is one.  I made a post about it here under fibro or chronic fatigue it so far has not seen much action. 

I don't know for sure how could I but there is that connection I found years ago. 

If you search this site you will find what it says. 

It is not so much knowing the drugs caused it is knowing how to fix it... I can't find a cure... maybe there is none.  Cause cure... corruption all c words. yes sometimes I make inflammatory remarks to go with the inflammation in my body. 

It bothers me more when I type it out as I remember all the suffering I had and all the times I believed only to be sucker punched again ... I feel like a sucker and it has taken my entire life to date to figure it out. 

I am going to wish you peace and go seek some for myself because I know the only good state to live this sort of life in is a peaceful state. 

anything less hurts me and likely you too...

peace

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peggy   
peggy

i developed a frozen shoulder whilst tapering 2 years ago - ended up taking oral steroids for 3 weeks which kick started the recovery.

 

i also have a low positive cardiolipin antigen reading - they are the antibodies for antiphospholipid syndrome (or something like that).  That is also considered an autoimmune disorder.  

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