☼ joy2730: withdrawing from citalopram, quetiapine

[Frogie]

9 minutes ago, joy2730 said:

Wondercore is new in the UK it is made by Thane.  It is very easy to use and has resistance built in.  It is readily available on the internet.  I find that while I am doing my live-in work if I do 1/2 hr a day it helps me a lot.  I do believe it helps with withdrawal too.  It is easy to pack away too.  It is a board and two levers that are adjustable for their resistance and do work your core really well.  It was £77.99 and has a DVD with it that is really easy to follow. 

 

When exercising I sometimes get the odd 'brain zap' but they are very mild and I think it is a sign of healing really, that my brain is rearranging itself.  I have the same effect if I go swimming, but it doesn't happen if I just sit around in a chair.  It just gives a tiny bit of muscle definition.  It is a little bit of self care, but like all pieces of home gym equipment you have to actually use it.

 

Google it Frogie.  Going now to watch the BBC1 programme on SSRIs

 

Joy

I will google it. But I need to use my Pilates machine. It's very gentle exercises. I've never had a brain zap. The only symptoms I have had is the nausea, and the bottoms of my feet burned. Junglechicken might have figured out my nausea though. I quit smoking 16 months ago, and that's when I was just starting tapering after the 1/2 pill cut. She thinks it's my body healing from 30+ years of smoking. Makes sense.  Have fun watching that show. Not for me lol...

 

Frogie xx

[joy2730]

You have done well not to have brain zaps Frogie, I have had plenty but don't find them distressing.  I think mine are only mild, they could be distressing if they were severe.  Then it would be like someone had stabbed you in the head with a knife.

 

I watched the Panorama programme, I think I wrote on Flower's story about it.  I was very impressed by it, I thought it was very tastefully done.  It diarised the unfolding of going on the drug, drug increases and then going off the drug.  That timeline was very good, similar to the signatures people put on this site.  David Healey came across as having a very good grip on SSRIs.

 

Unfortunately I felt I could identify with many of the emotions that led to the killing, but I turned mine in on myself rather than on anyone else.  When I was going through many different meds in hospital and cold turkeyed off them all by the hospital psychiatrist, I felt my emotions were no longer under my control.  I survived but quite honestly I don't know how or why I survived.

 

Today for me is good on 17.75 mg.  It is my third day on the lower dose and this morning my body did recognise the drop.  First thing this morning my back was a lot more sweaty than usual for me, wet with sweat in fact, and this is how I used to be when making larger drops.  So in fact my body has recognised the difference in a shorter space of time than 4 days, but it is quite doable.  I feel I am progressing a little, and have done the right thing to drop only a very little.  My mood is stable, in fact very stable and optimistic for the future.

 

This site is a fantastic source of information and support.  I wish there had been something like this when I had previously tried to get off various psychiatric drugs in the past.  I particularly like the site because people tend to be honest here, I suppose because we are all behind a screen name.  It is a shame people disappear from the site at times, but I can understand that.

 

Take care everyone, as I type this I have just had a cold chill, so my cns temperature control is a bit at sea today, yes that is good, the slight drop is being recognised.

 

Joy

[Frogie]

Hi Joy:

 

I'm glad you are doing well. You make small tapers and they go a lot smoother, I have figured that out. I never thought I would get into the 7mg's, but I have. Every time I did, I got really sick and had to go back up. Big relief that I will get off of this horrible med someday.

 

I was sick for a long time when I decided to cut my dosage in 1/2 like the dr said.

 

I still get a bit of nausea once in a while, but nothing like I used to have. It goes away fairly quickly.

 

I'm glad you enjoyed the show. Like I said I couldn't watch something like that. I'll stick to the shopping channel and game shows lol...

 

I don't even get sweats. I might one of these days. Like I said the only symptoms I've had is nausea and the bottoms of my feet burning. I would love for the nausea to go away completely, but it's a whole lot better than it was. I used to barely get out of bed. Now I make the bed lol...

 

You have a nice day.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

 

 

 

 

[joy2730]

Hi Frogie

 

I can identify with foot feelings, sometimes I get jabbing sensations in my feet, mainly my left, with my right one very occasionally and this I feel instinctively to be withdrawal.  Apparently the nerves in are feet are the longest in the body, but I am not sure how that explains anything.  But the feelings I get in my feet aren't distressing in any way.

 

Nausea seems to be a common withdrawal effect, apparently we have lots of serotonin receptors in our stomachs. I was no naïve before, I thought antidepressants only worked in the brain!

 

Why do doctors tell people to cut the dose my half?  I told my GP flat that I am walking around with a syringe and my meds and measuring out fractions.  I don't think enough people go and tell their doctors the truth about this withdrawal business.  Perhaps they feel embarrassed, judged and not listened to?

 

I have noticed articles on SA from young women wanting to get off antidepressants as they wish to start a family.  I am not condoning antidepressant use in pregnancy at all, but I have known quite a few women take them in pregnancy and had healthy children.

 

When I got pregnant with my daughter Heather, I was on multiple psychiatric pills but within 12 weeks was down to just diazepam.  She was born perfectly healthily although 6 weeks early.  I couldn't breastfeed but I am so glad I had her.  My son Ben was born while I was taking dothiepin and diazepam, but a reduced dose of dothiepin, I think down to 50 mg.  However, Ben was born 10 weeks early but still did well.  Apparently there is a slight link to prematurity and the use of psychiatric drugs in pregnancy.  I am also glad I had him.  If I had waited until I was off psychiatric meds I would never have had my children.  It is tough though isn't it?  Knowing what to do in that situation.  Someone I work with at present is on citalopram and has just had IVF in Bulgaria and is 5 weeks pregnant now, but getting spotting and slight cramping, so is now on progesterone treatment. 

 

I suppose I am saying that life is lived in the 'grey area', how complicated that all is.  I am glad I am too old to be concerned about those issues and that is all behind me. 

 

I was relieved that my own daughter was able to have her pregnancy and breastfeeding time with Esme free from antidepressants, as she took them between the ages of 17 and 19.

 

Now you said you can ramble Frogie, so can I.  I am typing so that it can shed another view on this very sensitive area of life.

 

Things change too.  When I was pregnant lithium was considered a definite no in pregnancy, but later on when I was in hospital with depression, a young girl was having her pregnancy while taking lithium, and it appeared to be going well for her. 

 

My heart goes out to women who desperately want to start a family but need to withdraw first - but it must be the best incentive possible!

 

I have seen my grandchild Esme today, my daughter brought her to my work.  My client who is an elderly lady of 91, nearly 92, and has vascular dementia, Alzheimer's as well (mixed dementia), can no longer walk, is doubly incontinent and has osteoporosis, gets so much out of seeing Esme.  My client though, believe it or not, is very content and happy with her life.  That is a lesson for all of us.  She made a decision many years ago at age 65 when she started with dementia that she didn't want medication for it, or to go in a care home, so she now has this team of care in her own home.  Hence, me being here.  She is a credit to herself.  She was a very successful architect who worked world wide and did very well, so I suppose that has given her the choice, as this sort of care is very expensive.  Somehow our paths have crossed.  It can be hard for people to grasp that even though you have so much going against you, it is still possible to enjoy life.  Two of her sons live near her, one is a stone's throw away and they are actively involved in her life.

 

I have learnt a lot myself about quality of life from this care package.

 

Take care Frogie, Flowers and everyone else.  I apologise for my ramblings, but it is by sharing thoughts that we all learn.

 

Joy

[Frogie]

Hi Joy:

 

I know what you mean about your feet. Mine aren't always burning, but when they do it feels like I'm walking on a hot sidewalk barefoot. Annoying. I've had it maybe 10-12 times now. Maybe it's a symptom since I'm lower in dosage.

 

I've always had the nausea. Since June, 2016. That's when my dosage was cut in 1/2. But then I got it under control, made a cut in January, 2017, was ok, made another cut and bam! Here came the nausea. So I went back up in dosage. Held, and started a slow taper. I get it now and then, but try to ignore it. If it gets to where I can't bare it, my dr. gave me anti nausea meds. I don't take it very often. I was also niave about not knowing about the seritonin in the stomach, I though it just affected my brain too!

 

My dr. knows I'm tapering. He prescribed liquid Lexapro and the directions say taper as needed. Then onto Xanax and I'm done and never looking back!

 

I feel bad about the stories about the women that want to have kids so they taper really fast. It's a shame. I wasn't on anything when I had my 2 kids. It was when I went through my 2nd divorce that the dr. put me on it. That was 20 years ago. I'm glad both your children were ok and your daughter had no meds with your granddaughter.

 

I will be so glad when I'm off, and myself again. I was always happy, full of energy and ready to face the world. Now I don't want to leave the house. I go to therapy, and I'll go somewhere if my fiancé goes with me.

 

The 100th year fair and rodeo is here until Sunday, and neither me or my fiancé want to go. It's just going to be crowded, hot and expensive.

 

Well, see I can still ramble. But it's nice to talk with someone that understands.

 

Have a good rest of the day.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

 

[Flowers]

Hi Joy

 

Glad things are all OK with you.

 

I loved the bit on your post about Esme visiting your elderly lady. They say that children and animals are very therapeutic for dementia patients. 

 

Dare I say I am not feeling too bad today! 

 

Love from Flowers xxx

[joy2730]

Thanks Frogie and Flowers

 

We all seem to be OK at present!  Yay!

 

I have just taken my 4th dose at 17.75 mg and am doing really well.

 

Last night I was woken from my sleep (very good sleep) with the most ferocious pins and needles shooting down my arms into my hands.  Only lasted about 2 mins but it was so dramatic.  I have never experienced this before in my previous taper attempts.  This means new variations of withdrawal can pop up.  It is so peculiar, unnatural and clearly withdrawal, but as soon as it stopped I fell back to sleep and has happened since.

So basically by dropping from 18 to 17.75 mg my body has reacted, this means that these drugs really are powerful.

Needless to say I will be spending a long time letting my body adjust to this new drop.

It is quite 'gob-smacking' that such dramatic symptoms can happen.

 

Joy

[joy2730]

I went to bed last night without withdrawal on my mind, went straight to sleep and slept really well until an early morning nightmare, relating to how ill I have been in the past and reliving some very difficult emotions.  It was so real and again my brain had remembered all the minute details and emotions so well.  I will spare you all the details as they are so horrible.  This happened to me 2 nights running when I last dropped, so it is becoming a pattern for me.

 

I soon recovered though and now feel fine, I am expecting something like that again tonight and then for it to stop again?

 

I just feel slightly more sweaty today.  Just goes to show our brain's remember our feelings.

 

I am giving my brain a complete rest this afternoon by watching Netflix or just snoozing a little.  Even though I am at work my client snoozes and I snooze a little too.  In a way I am in the ideal job at present - it has a slow pace to it.

 

Take care everyone, just had to tell about the nightmare.

 

Joy

[joy2730]

Good news, I only had sweet dreams last night and a very relaxed sleep.  Doing well on 17.75 mg.

 

I watched something new to me last night, a Youtube video on 'The Secrets of Seroxat' which has helped to make me even more aware of the problems surrounding these drugs.

 

Only symptom today is a slightly increased sweating, less than yesterday though.

 

Joy

[TikkiTikki]

Glad to hear your latest drop is going well so far. 

 

[Flowers]

Hi Joy

 

Sorry you were plagued with the nightmares again.  You were strong enough to get over it though and are doing well.

 

It's weird how our subconscious throws up these things at us. 

 

Love from Flowers xxx

[joy2730]

Thanks for your kind words.  I am doing well now though, it will be interesting to see, if and when I make another drop, if it becomes a regular feature of my withdrawal.

 

I think nightmares are a recognised problem.

 

No nightmares last night though or the previous one, so over that one.

Joy

[joy2730]

Another lovely sleep without nightmares.

 

This morning I cleared out a huge drawer full of old paperwork - sadly, I have neglected such jobs and they become irritating.  30 years of paperwork.  It is interesting that I now have the energy/inclination to do this.  My husband is so pleased because he is the untidiest soul on earth and I am not much better, couple that with a lifeline of hard farm work and much medication, hectic work lives and the picture is not good.  I do feel a bit guilty for never having been very good on the household front but part of the reason for this is that for years I used to look after holiday lets as a means of getting an income and when I had finished cleaning/organising them I never got round to my own.

I threw out an old sewing machine yesterday and am about to check a newer one (40 yrs old) though, to see if that needs throwing out, and then only have one really good one left, and have ordered myself a new overlocker machine to make Esme's christening shawl.  Out with the old, in with the new.

 

Found my daughter and son's birth and progress weight cards when sorting out, they will be so interesting for my daughter. 

 

The point I am making is that this type of behaviour is unheard of from me, and very useful.

 

I am doing gym, spinning and sauna tonight, but doing it gently because on Monday I found it so draining.  Ugh.  Then I have a 'put to bed' call then back to my live-in work for 4 nights.  A look at my bank account shows my embryonic business is doing well!  I need to hold hold hold at this dose though, I don't want to rock the boat!

 

Joy

[Frogie]

3 hours ago, joy2730 said:

Another lovely sleep without nightmares.

 

This morning I cleared out a huge drawer full of old paperwork - sadly, I have neglected such jobs and they become irritating.  30 years of paperwork.  It is interesting that I now have the energy/inclination to do this.  My husband is so pleased because he is the untidiest soul on earth and I am not much better, couple that with a lifeline of hard farm work and much medication, hectic work lives and the picture is not good.  I do feel a bit guilty for never having been very good on the household front but part of the reason for this is that for years I used to look after holiday lets as a means of getting an income and when I had finished cleaning/organising them I never got round to my own.

I threw out an old sewing machine yesterday and am about to check a newer one (40 yrs old) though, to see if that needs throwing out, and then only have one really good one left, and have ordered myself a new overlocker machine to make Esme's christening shawl.  Out with the old, in with the new.

 

Found my daughter and son's birth and progress weight cards when sorting out, they will be so interesting for my daughter. 

 

The point I am making is that this type of behaviour is unheard of from me, and very useful.

 

I am doing gym, spinning and sauna tonight, but doing it gently because on Monday I found it so draining.  Ugh.  Then I have a 'put to bed' call then back to my live-in work for 4 nights.  A look at my bank account shows my embryonic business is doing well!  I need to hold hold hold at this dose though, I don't want to rock the boat!

 

Joy

Hi Joy:

 

It sounds like you are doing really well. I'm really happy for you.

 

When we moved 4 years ago, I went through papers. It's hard to believe what you hang on to.

 

Be careful at your gym tonight. Like you said you will be drained the next day.

 

I'm doing ok. I'm tired all the time for some reason. But manage to do a couple of things during the day.

 

Have a great day.  . (I don't know what day or time it is there. While I write to you, it's 7:20am, Wednesday, August 2nd)

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[joy2730]

Thanks Frogie

 

I have also reached the stage when I don't need to buy anything either, most strange.   I have just been down to my local market and saw a black T shirt and scarf but decided not to buy as I have far too many clothes already.  As I type this it is 2.30 pm in the afternoon and I am having a 'power down' few hours at home.

 

I do get a lot more done for reducing dosage.  I do doubt I will be able to get much lower because I have been very ill mentally in my life and have a lot of social problems behind me.  Also although my husband is very kind and good in lots of way, it isn't that brilliant a relationship and I need to keep my independence.  If I get really ill with withdrawal, like I have done previously, he has no understanding or patience and just tells me to get back on my pills.  I think my daughter thinks I am crazy trying to reduce.  So I don't have a lot of support.  My husband often 'mocks' me for my weight gain and I despise him when he does that.  I do think most of it is from citalopram and the other psychiatric drugs I have taken, but he doesn't understand.  Also he isn't supportive - he has just bought me a sausage roll and a bakewell tart. 

 

Anyway I am rambling now Frogie so I will go.  You say you are tired, well that is probably withdrawal or boredom perhaps?  I don't know, I prefer to be busy, not having enough to do really hits me.  It is getting the balance that is difficult in life.  I tend to push on and on. 

 

If I had my time again I wouldn't marry either of my husbands and would have have my daughter and not my son, but I am where I am, and try to count my blessings.  Typing the truth is totally liberating.  Part of withdrawal seems to be that people examine their lives and how they have arrived at that point.

 

Joy

[Frogie]

HI Joy:

 

I know how you feel about being married. I was married twice also. I have been engaged to my fiancé 9 years this month. We have both been married twice, so don't even care about getting married again.

 

I never thought I could get pregnant the second time. Don't get me wrong, I love my youngest son, but he doesn't love me. As you know I haven't talked to him in 8 years. We used to be so close, maybe someday I'll see him again.

 

My granddaughter told me last time I had her, it looked like I was going to have a baby. She doesn't know any better, but that's what the medications have done to me. I'm about 6-7 months along lol... Your husband should love you for who you are, not how you look. My fiancé tells me I look beautiful all the time. I think he is just trying to make me feel better.

 

We are on a diet, after I gained the 5 pounds back, and I've lost 1 pound. I hope I will lose the weight after I'm off the meds.

 

I get bored easily. My hand is in a brace from a fall a few years ago, so I can't clean like I used to. But today I dusted the living room and unloaded the dishwasher, so that's something. I only have the 1 friend and we don't talk or see each other everyday and we live across the street from each other.

 

Now I'm rambling on. I hope you have a good evening, and your four days of work go great

 

It's always nice to hear from you.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[joy2730]

16 hours ago, Frogie said:

HI Joy:

 

I know how you feel about being married. I was married twice also. I have been engaged to my fiancé 9 years this month. We have both been married twice, so don't even care about getting married again.

 

I never thought I could get pregnant the second time. Don't get me wrong, I love my youngest son, but he doesn't love me. As you know I haven't talked to him in 8 years. We used to be so close, maybe someday I'll see him again.

 

My granddaughter told me last time I had her, it looked like I was going to have a baby. She doesn't know any better, but that's what the medications have done to me. I'm about 6-7 months along lol... Your husband should love you for who you are, not how you look. My fiancé tells me I look beautiful all the time. I think he is just trying to make me feel better.

 

We are on a diet, after I gained the 5 pounds back, and I've lost 1 pound. I hope I will lose the weight after I'm off the meds.

 

I get bored easily. My hand is in a brace from a fall a few years ago, so I can't clean like I used to. But today I dusted the living room and unloaded the dishwasher, so that's something. I only have the 1 friend and we don't talk or see each other everyday and we live across the street from each other.

 

Now I'm rambling on. I hope you have a good evening, and your four days of work go great

 

It's always nice to hear from you.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

Hi Frogie

 

We are in similar situations, me and you.  I wouldn't marry again, but I would live with someone if I felt we were compatible and if the relationship would add to me, rather than ask me to change in any way.  I do love some things about my present husband, but he came be totally tactless, he lacks social skills.

 

Anyway the good news is that I really enjoyed my exercise class last night, but didn't go in the sauna because after gym and spinning I felt it would have been too much. 

 

I am still doing well on 17.75 mg, felt a bit sick this morning, but I welcome that as it is a sign it is leaving my body a bit.  I look well in my face and upper body, but legs, bum and tum look terrible.  I will exercise during my 4 days of work but it does nothing for weight loss, just tones me up a bit.

 

I don't even want to be slim, just tidier and as if I know how to look after myself a bit better.  I don't like walking around looking as if I stuff my face with rubbish food all the time, when I don't.  Some people who live on fish and chips, takeways and processed food look better and neater than me.  I am sure it is the citalopram, or at least the citalopram isn't helping the case at all.

 

I would love to stand in the high street and stop and interview people with a certain body shape like mine, which is crossed between a pear shape and an apple shape, and ask them if they are on SSRIs. I do know I can't do this!  I have my deepest suspicions about who I know who may be taking these meds from their physical profiles.

 

The last time I got anywhere near 14 mgs of citalopram, a client noticed my 'profile' had changed, but then I went into serious freefall withdrawal and updosed back to 20 mg.  Even my husband noticed I had lost weight.

 

Perhaps the weight gain isn't an issue for everyone, but for me I believe it is.  I think it is cumulative too, in that the longer you are on the drug the more likely you are to gain weight, and larger amounts.  When I first started this drug I did lose weight without trying and thought that was marvellous.

 

I would be so bored if I didn't work Frogie, I would eat out of boredom and probably drink wine most evenings.  Work is serving all sorts of purposes for me, I am lucky in that I have found something I like doing later in life.

 

I also have a bit of ringing in my ears and a touch of earache, but I think that is part of the withdrawal process.

 

Take care Frogie, Flowers and everyone else

 

Joy

[Flowers]

Hi Joy

 

You are doing fine and will get the weight off when it's ready to come off I am sure.

 

What you must take into account is that you are a beautiful kind person within and that's what matters the most. Citalopram caused me to put on weight and it is always a struggle not to raid all the sweet things in the house especially when I get periods of cravings for chocolate!

 

I am yo yoing weight wise as when I feel bad and nauseous I can't eat anything sometimes for days. At the moment I am feeling OK so am enjoying food and can't contemplate thinking about how many calories I am eating! I know I will regret it when I get on the scales!

 

Having said that I do like salads and cold meats and fruit which we are eating a lot as it is so hot. But I also like icecream!

 

Love from Flowers xxx

 

 

 

[joy2730]

So glad you are feeling fine at present Flowers - you seem to be stable at present so enjoy.  You may get to your liver enzyme test?

 

This is such an improvement from when you were very dizzy and weak and your husband had to help you a lot. 

 

Every time I make a drop in dose I seem to have this fat feeling which levels off.  Some people on the Internet are saying vital or withdrawal plays havoc with the hormones concerned with fat burning and storage.

 

My mood is very stable so I must count my blessings.  I have a lot to be thankful for - especially the support of SA and my Internet friends.

 

You do sound so much better Flowers!

 

Joy

[joy2730]

I weighed myself this morning and I am totally weight stable so I am very relieved that I am not suffering from paradoxical weight gain, as I thought I was.  It just shows that it is so easy to blame everything on the SSRI and the withdrawal.  This is a relief to me.

 

We have Esme's christening at the end of September and I have a very expensive, very flattering dress that I would love to wear.  It is not new, but I would prefer not to have to trail round the shops looking for something that may not be as good anyway.  If I drop a few pounds I will look so much better in it, so that is a new goal and will distract me from withdrawal for a few weeks.  When I shopped for my dress for my daughter's wedding the first dress I tried was perfect but then I tried about 100 others and the first one had gone when I went back for it!

 

Having said that my recent reduction is going really well.  I had a slight headache last night and felt a bit sweaty, I never get headaches except when reducing the dose. 

 

I feel quietly confident that at long last I am on the right rate of reduction for me.

 

How are you Flowers, hopefully still well, and Frogie too, hope you are well are bearing up under the strain of having to live in a small town with few facilities - I know that feeling so well, at home I am 4 miles from one very small town and 8 from another.  I am at least 15 from a decent sized supermarket and a Boots chemist.  I do a lot of shopping online.

 

I once bought a washing up bowl in Nerja, Spain, and brought it back to GB with me, as at that time we didn't have a hardware store at all!  It was a good washing up bowl too and cheap.  When we went to Tenerife recently we found an excellent hardware store and I stocked up with things then!  In the past I have even bought lemon squeezers and such online.  I even bought a plastic drinks bottle that you can put fruit in in a separate central bit recently from US.  We can't buy anything like that near where I live!

 

 

Joy

[Frogie]

Hi Joy:

 

I'm glad that you are doing well and your weight is holding. I hope you will be able to wear your dress for Esme's christening.

 

The 5 pounds that I lost has been put back on. When my nausea went away, I ate, but now my fiancé and I are watching what we are eating, so maybe I'll lose a little.

 

I live just like you. We are 16 miles from a decent grocery store, no deli or bakery though. But better than what we have in our town.

 

I have one of those water bottles. I use it all the time without the fruit thing. Once in a while I'll put fruit in my water for a change. I bought it from Amazon.

 

I woke up nauseous this morning, but I'm pretty sure it's the tooth. She packed medicine around the tooth and then put a temporary filling in. I go back at the end of the month for a permanent filling. She also put me on an antibiotic. 

 

Flowers, hope you are doing well. Haven't heard from you, so hopefully no news is good news.

 

I hope everyone has a wonderful weekend. I'll check in.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[joy2730]

Hi Frogie

 

Thanks for your reply - isn't it good to share frustrations.

 

I also wish to add to my post.  Tonight two real positives have happened.  Firstly for the first time in years I feel full in my stomach and as though I have more control over my eating, and secondly I have just been able to concentrate on a TV programme for over half an hour, which is unusual for me.  I feel they are linked in some way.  They both feel so good, and I feel they are a result of my reduced citalopram.

 

I am reading a book at present (purchased from Leeds/Bradford airport) on the way to Tenerife by Barrett called 'How emotions are made'.  The top and bottom of the first few chapters are that, for example, everyone feels fear differently, differently in the brain and in the body.  I have a lot more reading to do in it, I have only just started, but this would account for the face some individuals can cope with stress, for example, without getting ill, whereas others soon feel the symptoms of stress.  I have tried to explain it simply, and I suppose we all know this anyway but it helps to read it and try to explain it.  It explains why some people are more likely to end up being prescribed/taking SSRIs and other psychiatric drugs.

 

Frogie when I married my second, present, husband, I moved from Leeds, a large English city with high rise blocks, pockets of great affluence, a university, polytechnic, schools, major rail network, airport, all high street stores to a small hill farm in the middle of nowhere.  I remember saying to my health visitor (I had Heather within 6 months) of arriving 'There isn't even a chemist that sells Slimfast in XXX or XXX'.  She looked at me and said 'But we have everything here we need, just eat fruit and veg instead'.  I know what she means, but I missed my cosmopolitan lifestyle so much.  I, at the time, liked posh makeup eg Clinique, locally there was only Rimmel.  However, as soon as the internet took hold with shopping, life got better for me.  We were the first people for miles around to get the internet, dial-up, and neighbours would pay me to use the internet for a few minutes (it was very expensive then).  Internet shopping has improved vastly, eg only this week I ordered 20 bobbins for my sewing machine (I can't get anything like that without travelling 16 miles), and the petrol money would be ridiculous plus parking.  These were only 50p but I think the company have taken an extra £1 off my credit card, presumably they  realised they can't post anything for 50 p, and needed the extra £1.  I am not sure if they are allowed to do that, I might ask Barclaycard, I really don't know.  That is the only downside to internet shopping.  There is always the potential for it to go wrong with a credit card. So I share your frustrations Frogie, but it has got better for me because of the internet, and I have learnt to love my local places.  I still get excited about the thought of going shopping in a big town though.

 

I know I am rambling now so will go, but sharing human experience is very valuable, and on this site we have the luxury of hiding behind a screename.  I have deliberately put XXX for the name of the towns as they are so small and would identify me too easily.  I don't want the world and his wife to know my thoughts!

 

Take care everyone, I think this is the day Flowers was planning to go for her liver enzyme tests.  She is probably exhausted from the 2 hr trip, I may be wrong of course.

 

Joy 

[Frogie]

Hi Joy:

 

Sorry it's taken a while to get back to you. I have been sitting here watching my shopping channel and got wrapped up in it lol...

 

It's very nice to share our frustrations to each other as we understand what's going on. And we can get insight and suggestions on what to do in a certain situation.

 

I haven't been hungry all day. I ate a banana, but I've been drinking water most of the day. Again, I think it has something to do with my tooth. Maybe subconsciously I don't want to hurt it or have the filling fall out. I use a Sonicare toothbrush. My dentist said not to use it on those few teeth, so I shut it off and just kinda rubbed it and told me not to floss there at all. I'm doing everything she's telling me to do. I want to keep my tooth!

 

I'm glad you can control your eating. Usually I'm pretty good about it unless there is candy in the house. Then there is trouble.

 

One thing I do do is watch too much tv. The shopping channel and game shows like I said. 

 

My fiancé had to work last night at 10pm, after the gas station closed and he could turn the electricity on and off (he's a master electrician). He didn't get home until 2:30 this morning, so I didn't sleep much. Off and on in my chair with my chihuahua. Then up and at em the day started again, so I hope I sleep good tonight.

 

I do a lot of shopping on the Internet, but it's not the same. I live and love to go to stores. Not the ones around here. They are nothing. I'm like you, I want to see the city and ramble through it. I'm sooooo bored.

 

I have the 1 friend, but she is wacky. I mean really wacky. People in town don't associate with her much. She cries a lot, and takes more medication than I thought I ever did. I don't see or talk to her everyday, but she is a very thoughtful person to me at least. So I know exactly how you feel, so lonely.

 

Thanks for checking on me. I'm doing ok, except for my tooth. Be glad to have that done.

 

Have a great evening.

 

I hope Flowers is doing well if she reads this.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[joy2730]

Hi Frogie

 

It would be so good if you can keep your tooth.  I have an Oral B toothbrush and I think they are a little gentler than the Soni one.  I floss too but you have to be careful.  I dread the idea of dentures, people loose such a lot of the sensation of eating.  I have all my own teeth except one which I lost in my early 30's and have a crown on a bridge instead, but it has never felt 'real'.  I used to bite and chew on biros when I was young and am sure that caused me to damage and loose that tooth.

 

I paid privately to have my teeth whitened before my daughter's wedding 4 years ago and they looked super, not glaringly white, just like pearls in my mouth, the light seemed to shine on them so much better.  You get plastic trays with them and I lost one of the 2 trays and so threw the other out, so to have them done again I will have to pay the full cost, it was just under £200. 

 

Tooth pain is awful, it is so draining and does affect the whole body.

 

I am doing well on my reduced dose, brilliant sleep, better than ever.  I have noticed the odd bit of itching of my skin on my right lower arm again, and yesterday I was stung by a nettle in the garden which would only cause prickly for about 20 minutes normally.  But it has been nearly 24 hrs ago now and the itching is still quite intense, and although I was stung on my right leg, both lower legs are itchy.

 

I am going to google the relationship between antihistamines and SSRIs - there does seem to be a relationship but I am not sure what.  If a moderator is reading this perhaps they can send me a link?  Only if they have the time though!

 

I have blindly ingested my psychiatric drugs over the many years, especially blindly with my citalopram, as I thought they were super safe drugs.   I hadn't even grasped that alcohol can make SSRIs work less well.  If that is the case the alcohol I drunk in Tenerife might have contributed to my DR/DP symptoms.  I didn't get drunk or anything like that but I don't normally drink at all and so it was a significant change for me.  Why have I never questioned SSRIs at all previously, I suppose I was so busy questioning my diazepam and mood stabilisers and thought questioning citalopram was a push too far.

 

I love this new feeling of control over my food, I am so glad I started this withdrawal journey.  I am aware of subtle changes in my body like the histamine though.

 

Yes Frogie, I do often feel a touch lonely, but I think women of our age do, but being our age also has a lot going for it.

 

Hope you have a better night's sleep, I make sure the TV is off half an hour before going to bed and that seems to help.  I try to avoid using my laptop last thing at night, but have to keep my phone on for work purposes.  Sometimes I have a quick bath which seems to help and I sleep better with the window open and a fan on.  I can do this at work but at home my husband won't let me do that, and I don't sleep as well at home.  However since reducing my citalopram I have started to sleep brilliantly at work and good at home, so things have improved in both areas.  I used to take antihistamines to help me sleep but since reading a lot on this site I don't take them anymore.

 

My care work does help to ease my loneliness, my husband is not a big 'chatter' but there is lots of chatter in the care world.  I have drop in carers for an hour a time 3 times a day and they are all great girls.

 

Love to Flowers if she is reading this, it is a lovely day in the UK today, not too hot, but sunny, no rain or wind, just pleasant.  Let me know Frogie if you sleep well tonight, sleep is vital to well being.  Apparently after a bad night's sleep we have an increased heart rate all night!

 

Joy

[Flowers]

Hi Joy - I like the fact that you bought a washing up bowl in Nerja and took it back to UK! 

 

I love shopping but also love a bargain! I miss the UK shops and I don't get out as much as I used to so do order somethings online. 

 

Glad the weather was lovely today. We have been very hot here at 35. Luckily it is not humid so not too bad to put up with!

 

Eating lots of icecream so weight is going on - will have to watch that big time! 

 

Take care.

 

Flowers xxx

 

 

[joy2730]

Hi Flowers

 

My washing up bowl was great and a fantastic reminder of the holiday.  Do you think there is a link with citalopram and weight gain Flowers?  By the way that is a question you really don't have to answer, it is more rhetorical really.  I think there is.

 

I am good today, but didn't sleep quite so well last night, but I am back at the leisure centre tomorrow and so I will probably sleep better then.  I am so lazy about exercise unless I am in a group class.  I have my exercise bike, Wondercore and trainers at my live-in work, and just don't use them.  It took me longer to get to sleep and I had a touch of anxiety on waking up but nothing major.

 

My constipation is back with vengeance, that is definitely a sign for me that my body is recognising the reduced dose.  I am back to double quantities of laxatives, eating prunes and drinking loads of water - it had eased for a while so it is probably a case of when the drop is noticed it kicks in.

 

I am finding it easier to control my eating now, what a relief that is! 

 

My mental health is very stable.  I have just had a phone call from a fellow carer and arranged to meet her when she is next working in the area.  It is good to have something in my diary that isn't work related or family.  She was involved with my old care company (when I wasn't self-employed) and all the trouble at that time. 

 

On 23/8 it will be one year since my ex-husband lost his life to suicide, but I know instinctively that it will not affect me.  I will think of him but only briefly.

 

I met a carer yesterday on Prozac who had been on citalopram.  She had got herself off citalopram and about 4 months later started to suffer from panic attacks and the GP put her back on Prozac and she has been on it ever since.  She doesn't know I struggle with this sort of issue, she was just telling me her story.  She is now planning a second pregnancy but is planning to stay on Prozac.  I am writing this as I know some women on this site are trying to withdraw to start a pregnancy.

 

It seems that many people are affected by these medications in all walks of life and all over the world.  Carers in particular seem to take a lot of these meds, but apparently so do doctors and nurses. 

 

I personally wish someone would develop a truly safe antidepressant for the seriously ill to be able to take, that must be the best way forward.

 

Frogie, I am clearly having another ramble, but it does me good, it helps me to get a perspective on things.  How is the tooth Frogie? 

 

It is a grey day in the UK today with the odd bit of sunshine, the atmosphere already has a feel of autumn about it.  When I used to be very ill I used to get very depressed by the 16th of September and by 5th November I always felt absolutely wretched and then all that pattern just went away.  The first time I was able to enjoy a bonfire night out and about was absolutely amazing, I was like a child attending a bonfire for the first time.  Sadly, about the same time my husband decided he was too old for that sort of thing, but now we have Esme he will change his mind.

 

Looking back I was very ill, but have survived and am now in the privileged position of having the luxury of feeling I can try on reduced dosages.  I am so grateful to be in this position.  The outcome for me so often was very poor and I never expected to gain this level of health.

 

Joy

[Frogie]

Hi Joy:

 

Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you. Yesterday was a "not so great day" with my tooth. It decided to hurt and hurt.

 

Today it's hurting, but not as bad. Just achy. I'll be so glad to go back to the dentist and get it fixed once and for all. I don't go back until the end of the month.

 

I'm on an antibiotic and it kinda makes my stomach yucky. Not sick, just not normal. I haven't been nauseous for a little while, now this.

 

I've slept very well the last two nights. I only woke up once last night, looked around noticing it was still very dark, rolled over and went back to sleep. My fiancé has let me sleep in the last 2 mornings an extra hour. I think he feels bad about my tooth.

 

Yesterday, it finally dried out enough in the yard that he could work on getting the dirt leveled off from the sewer dig. He's back at it this morning, raking, and then he's going to put down some grass seed. It's supposed to be cool and rainy this week, so we shouldn't have to water much. Maybe it will grow lol...

 

I'm still lonely. It helps when my fiancé is home. But he is usually outside working, so I don't see much of him. So even with him home, I'm inside. I miss home a lot. But after 4 years, I'm still trying to make the best of it.

 

Good luck on your new client. I hope it goes well.

 

See, now I'm rambling. Hope you have a great day.

 

If Flowers reads this, I'm glad the nausea has let up, eat ice cream! It's so yummy.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

 

I'm so glad that you are doing well with your eating. I'm just the opposite. I was bad and bought some chocolate. I'm sorry your constipation is back. I was hoping it would stay away. I have a small amount, but I think it's from the antibiotics.

[joy2730]

Hi Frogie, apart from your tooth and some loneliness you are OK, just as I am OK.  I have never felt life had to be perfect, just not too bad will do me.  I am going home tomorrow for 3 nights, and will see Esme, my daughter Heather is in a bit of a crisis about her work, if only she could realise that it doesn't matter that much really.  I am going to help her with it but try not to let it affect me too much.

 

Take care Frogie, why is it so long until you go back to the dentist, presumably to clear up any infection?  Have they given you prescription painkillers?

 

Joy

[Frogie]

31 minutes ago, joy2730 said:

Hi Frogie, apart from your tooth and some loneliness you are OK, just as I am OK.  I have never felt life had to be perfect, just not too bad will do me.  I am going home tomorrow for 3 nights, and will see Esme, my daughter Heather is in a bit of a crisis about her work, if only she could realise that it doesn't matter that much really.  I am going to help her with it but try not to let it affect me too much.

 

Take care Frogie, why is it so long until you go back to the dentist, presumably to clear up any infection?  Have they given you prescription painkillers?

 

Joy

Aside from my tooth I'm ok. Except I think I'm going to call the dentist tomorrow, the tooth she drilled and put medicine in and a temporary filling isn't hurting, it's now the tooth next to it. I'm a mess lol...

 

At least you will get to see Esme, and I'm sure you can straighten out your daughters dilemma with work. You seem to be good at things like that.

 

The dentist put me on antibiotics, but no pain killers. I've been taking ibuprofen and it works pretty good. I go back at the end of the month so hopefully the antibiotics and medicine she put in that one tooth worked. Now I don't know about this other one. It was filled by the other dentist also. I'm beginning not to trust him, but you take what you can when your dentist is hurt and out of the office.

 

Glad you are doing well.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[joy2730]

Hi Frogie

 

I am glad you are well other than the teeth.  I am well too, and enjoying the fact I no longer feel endless hungry.  I don't know whether this state will continue but I always felt for me that citalopram made me hungry and gain weight. 

 

If I can have more control over my eating on 17.75 mg that will be good because I don't think I will be able to get to the lower doses like you, I feel I have taken psychiatric meds for so long, in high dosages, at times even higher that recommended allowances as doctors felt that was the only way forward, I am old to be doing this, 58 and I am female which apparently makes it harder.

 

I love living near to Esme, my grandchild.  On leaving work yesterday I saw her before my spin/legs/bum and tums classes, went to classes and then later on returned to look after Esme in the evening.  She was mainly in bed, but I loved just being in the same house as her!  I know I am so lucky to be in this situation.  At my leisure centre yesterday a woman had just become a grandma  but was 5 hrs away from the new arrival.  The arrival of Esme has made me so busy and therefore tired but she is worth it.  It has given me the motivation to try to sort myself out with meds.  I want to be able to enjoy her and the lethargy from the meds was making that harder.

 

I don't think I will ever have this relationship with my son's babies if he has any so I need to make the most of Esme.

 

I have just spoken to my daughter and I can tell in her voice that she is grateful for my support in every way, and now over her employment issues.  She has just been offered an interview elsewhere, I have told her firmly that she will have a lifetime of employment issues ahead of her, judging by what others tell me. 

 

Take care Frogie, and Flowers if you are reading.

 

Joy

[joy2730]

A quick update.  I continue to sleep well, but physically my 'keep fit' is really making my legs and joints hurt so I have eased off and just done swim and sauna today.  However, when swimming I have a lot more strength. 

 

My food is much easier to control now, which is great.  However, my mood is slightly lower today.  I would normally panic and leap back to 20 mg at this point but this time I am not going to. 

 

I have had a lovely day with Esme and my daughter and have managed to have a good rest.

Someone in the supermarket noticed I had lost some weight and I can tell I have because I have just gone down a bra size!  I really need this benefit!

 

So whatever has changed to alter my appetite has also lowered my mood?

 

I will keep reporting back on the mood, presumably this is temporary and part of withdrawal?

 

Joy

 

[apace41]

17 minutes ago, joy2730 said:

However, my mood is slightly lower today.  I would normally panic and leap back to 20 mg at this point but this time I am not going to. 

 

Hi, Joy.  Glad you are doing well in general.  I am curious about the quoted portion of your post.  Is today the first day you are feeling lower, i.e., are you saying that one bad day would have been enough for you to panic and go back to 20mg?  Or have you had a couple of days of issues?

Thanks.

 

Trying to understand how others perceive the entire withdrawal process.

 

Thanks,

 

Andy

[Flowers]

2 hours ago, joy2730 said:

A quick update.  I continue to sleep well, but physically my 'keep fit' is really making my legs and joints hurt so I have eased off and just done swim and sauna today.  However, when swimming I have a lot more strength. 

 

My food is much easier to control now, which is great.  However, my mood is slightly lower today.  I would normally panic and leap back to 20 mg at this point but this time I am not going to. 

 

I have had a lovely day with Esme and my daughter and have managed to have a good rest.

Someone in the supermarket noticed I had lost some weight and I can tell I have because I have just gone down a bra size!  I really need this benefit!

 

So whatever has changed to alter my appetite has also lowered my mood?

 

I will keep reporting back on the mood, presumably this is temporary and part of withdrawal?

 

Joy

 

Hi Joy

 

Great news that someone noticed you had lost weight. What a wonderful feeling! 

 

Sounds like your swimming is doing you a lot of good if you have more strength. I wouldn't overdo the other 

 

exercises if your legs and joints hurt. 

 

I am a bit like you. When I am feeling good I want to eat constantly and crave chocolate! When I feel low I go off food altogether and don't want to eat a thing. It must be a WD thing and I hope you are only having a mild taste of it and that it will soon settle.

 

Well done you for not jumping back to 20 mgs straight away.  I know that is a big hurdle you wanted to get over and you are conquering the temptation!

 

Lots of love from Flowers xxx

[joy2730]

12 hours ago, Flowers said:

Hi Joy

 

Great news that someone noticed you had lost weight. What a wonderful feeling! 

 

Sounds like your swimming is doing you a lot of good if you have more strength. I wouldn't overdo the other 

 

exercises if your legs and joints hurt. 

 

I am a bit like you. When I am feeling good I want to eat constantly and crave chocolate! When I feel low I go off food altogether and don't want to eat a thing. It must be a WD thing and I hope you are only having a mild taste of it and that it will soon settle.

 

Well done you for not jumping back to 20 mgs straight away.  I know that is a big hurdle you wanted to get over and you are conquering the temptation!

 

Lots of love from Flowers xxx

Thank you Flowers

 

Good News, woke up this morning and my lower mood has gone.  I think what I describe as low mood is actually tiredness and I describe it as low mood because I am taking less of an antidepressant.  To be honest I find having Esme in my life, although wonderful, has made me more tired!

 

My joints are so much better this morning so I am going to learn to hold back a bit on the hard exercise.  They really reacted but my figure looks so much better for it and I am starting to feel so much tidier.  It is important that I get some control over my figure at this dosage 17.75 mg as I doubt very much I will get down to lower dosages.

 

I am very much a person of extremes, ie straight back to 20mg if there is any trouble, loads of exercise and as hard as I can, loads of work and as hard as I can, but this lack of moderation is a fault of mine. 

 

I don't want to ruin this chance of gaining some control over my citalopram, so am holding at 17.75 mg for ages now. 

 

I can tell I have less than 20 mg in my body now and I feel a lot healthier for it.

 

I am no longer on a mission to get off citalopram completely, I have taken that sort of pressure off myself.

 

If I ended up on say, 15 mg, I would consider I had done very well.

 

I did have a random dream last night about one of my old psychiatrist I had when I was pregnant and my babies were small.  I walked into his room (in my dream) and he smiled asn said to me 'Long time, no see'.  It was a pleasant meeting with him and I was just about to tell him how many  drugs I had given up when I woke up!  So my subconscious was busy working away last night.  There were some other random bits before this that were a bit distressing but I can't remember them now, that is good that I can't remember them.

 

I think dreaming is a sign of withdrawal in itself?

 

How are your plans for your liver enzyme test now Flowers?  Are you well enough to go, I hope so.  How's the tooth Frogie?

 

Joy

 

 

[Flowers]

21 hours ago, joy2730 said:

Thank you Flowers

 

Good News, woke up this morning and my lower mood has gone.  I think what I describe as low mood is actually tiredness and I describe it as low mood because I am taking less of an antidepressant.  To be honest I find having Esme in my life, although wonderful, has made me more tired!

 

My joints are so much better this morning so I am going to learn to hold back a bit on the hard exercise.  They really reacted but my figure looks so much better for it and I am starting to feel so much tidier.  It is important that I get some control over my figure at this dosage 17.75 mg as I doubt very much I will get down to lower dosages.

 

I am very much a person of extremes, ie straight back to 20mg if there is any trouble, loads of exercise and as hard as I can, loads of work and as hard as I can, but this lack of moderation is a fault of mine. 

 

I don't want to ruin this chance of gaining some control over my citalopram, so am holding at 17.75 mg for ages now. 

 

I can tell I have less than 20 mg in my body now and I feel a lot healthier for it.

 

I am no longer on a mission to get off citalopram completely, I have taken that sort of pressure off myself.

 

If I ended up on say, 15 mg, I would consider I had done very well.

 

I did have a random dream last night about one of my old psychiatrist I had when I was pregnant and my babies were small.  I walked into his room (in my dream) and he smiled asn said to me 'Long time, no see'.  It was a pleasant meeting with him and I was just about to tell him how many  drugs I had given up when I woke up!  So my subconscious was busy working away last night.  There were some other random bits before this that were a bit distressing but I can't remember them now, that is good that I can't remember them.

 

I think dreaming is a sign of withdrawal in itself?

 

How are your plans for your liver enzyme test now Flowers?  Are you well enough to go, I hope so.  How's the tooth Frogie?

 

Joy

 

 

Hi Joy

 

I am not surprised you  get a little tired with all that you do. At least you sleep well despite the dreaming!  

 

If I am in a low mood I feel very sad but have found that getting out for a walk or some other distraction really helps.

 

I don't think I will get my test done until after end of August now. It is very hot and busy with no parking as the clinic is in a tourist seaside town.

 

Flowers xxx

 

[joy2730]

Thanks Flowers, you sound well?  I think I am going to have to learn what normal low mood is compared with depression as a mental illness.  This is one of the down sides to having spent most of my life heavily medicated - knowing what a normal tired low mood is.  It is like being a child - having to learn some basic life skills.

 

I had a good night's sleep last night, but I did wake in the night following some sort of depression related dream, but then went back to sleep.  I can't remember the details and that is good.   My appetite continues to be easier to control and my mood today is good and stable.  I like where I am at present.

 

I am going to alter a skirt today, it is much too big on the waist for me now, and doing practical things stops me over thinking reducing the citalopram.

 

Take care Flowers and Frogie

 

Joy