☼ joy2730: withdrawing from citalopram, quetiapine

[joy2730]

Hi Flowers, yes my husband is still doing well and my mother, who I have seen today is doing better.

 

I have more symptoms today and they are a bit stronger.  I now have a headache, aching jaw and throat, a slight loss of coordination and a strange feeling of stomach ache and imminent diarrhoea.  I also feel a bit shaky and some palpitations.  However, my daughter says I look a lot better so I am going to stick this out.

 

Also I banged my shoulder against a door and the pain was agonising, much more pain than I should have had felt, which I am linking in with my various aches and pains.  Strangely the aches and pains keep moving position, and appear in the oddest parts of my body.

 

I am still getting strong pins and needle type jabbing discomfort in the bottom of my feet.

 

All of this I am putting down to withdrawal.  It is a long time ago since I dropped to 17 mg, I think about 5 weeks now, but I can't see my signature at present and so this is a bit of a surprise.

 

I do feel quite poorly with it today but am sticking with it.  At least if I start with diarrhoea it will make a change from the constipation!

 

My mood is good and settled though.

 

Take care Flowers and Frogie.

 

Joy

[Flowers]

Hi Joy

 

So sorry the symptoms are stronger. I suffer from some of them as well but in varying degrees of severity.

 

I don't understand what triggers these either. You haven't changed anything for 5 weeks and I haven't for much longer than that. I guess this is why  long holds  are recommended if symptoms are present until things settle down again. I always try to analyse what has triggered my symptoms but have never been able to put it down to anything.

 

Apparently I look fine even when I am at my worst. It  is nice to know that other people don't realise how bad I feel!

 

If your mood is good that helps deal with the physical symptoms doesn't it? 

 

Keep hanging in there Joy - you are doing so well not jumping back up again. I am sure things will settle in time.

 

Love from Flowers xxx

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[joy2730]

Hi Flowers

 

I don't think I have had any triggers, it has just happened.  I didn't sleep too good last night and felt a bit low this morning.  Did 2 hrs of spinning and total body workout and then came home and made myself a good breakfast.  I am spending the rest of the day quietly.

 

Some of my symptoms have eased but I am now quite shaky and feel as if I have the flu but haven't.

 

If I can stabilise on 17 mg it will be a miracle, but I have no desire to push the dose back up, I want to see where this leads to.   If it goes on for weeks though I will probably put the dose back up, but that would be a last resort.

 

I am counting my blessings, I have so much that is good in my life, and have been very very ill in the past so I am in a much better place.

 

My husband has cold turkeyed off his tramadol and done very well, I guess some people do well and others don't. 

 

I am going to try to sleep now for an hour.  I will post how I feel tomorrow because it is in this way we get the full picture.

 

Joy

[Flowers]

Hope you feel better tomorrow Joy.

 

Have a nice rest.

 

Flowers xxx

[joy2730]

I have had a good rest and feel a bit better this morning, but not completely better at all.  I still feel sick and very anxious.  I am heading off for Esme's christening now.

 

I am sticking at 17 mg and not updosing because it is important that I see where this set of symptoms are doing but then I think I will remain at 17 mg indefinitely because I don't like feeling like this, I feel hot, sweaty, sick, anxious, bodily aches and pains and a little low in spirit and tired.  The diarrhoea hasn't materialised which is both good and bad, as I still have the constipation.

 

I think the magnesium in the spirulina is helping but there is no way in which anyone can know that. 

 

To replace the meditation cd I lost I ordered a second hand copy from Ebay which arrived yesterday without the cd, so I have ordered a brand new copy today from Amazon.  I am going to try to give meditation another go but it has never really worked for me before, but apparently you really have to work with it and stick with it for a long period of time before it becomes effective which I have never done.

 

I am not impressed with this withdrawal lark, and despite being full of painkillers for my bodily aches and pains a headache has just kicked in.  Thank you

 

Joy

[Flowers]

Oh Dear. What a day for it to happen to you Joy.

 

I hope you manage to enjoy yourself at the christening.  Maybe the distraction will be good for you.

 

I do know how you are feeling as I feel just like that today too. These past couple of days have been difficult and there is nothing I can put in down to.

 

I am resting as much as possible which I think helps but I also go out for a walk or some other distraction.

 

Yesterday I felt dreadful all day but by the evening I felt well enough to go out to dinner with some friends! This morning I am feeling nauseous ,shaky and agitated again. This is all so bizarre!

 

You will probably find this will pass but trying some  meditation or relaxation techniques may help you. I do progressive muscle relaxation which does help most of the time and takes all the tension out of my body and to some extent my mind. There are plenty of videos showing you how to do this on You Tube.

 

If you stay where you are at 17mgs you are giving your body the best chance to stabilise. It is so hard to do nothing (as I know to my cost) but it is the best thing for you.

 

Hopefully you and I will  feel better as the day goes on.

 

Flowers xxx

 

 

 

 

 

 

[joy2730]

Hi flowers 

 

I have just come back from the christening and it has helped a lot but the 8:hr painkillers I took this morning are wearing off.  I saw loads of people today who I have known over the years.

 

The aches andvp as insurance are definitely withdrawal and make me feel much older than my years.

 

I am not giving on and going to a higher dose as I want to see when and if this resolves but I have more or less decided to stay on citalopram indefinitely.

 

I find it so tiring - I am permanently exhausted soon.

 

I am also sick of this being an unrecognised illness - I don't talk about it to anyone as I really feel they don't understand.

 

Flowers you aren't tapering at present but you are clearly not completely stable - I suppose it is from all the changes you have undergone but still surely things should be settling for you now?

 

I think these drugs are longer acting than anyone thinks.

 

I am going to bed for a lived own nowc- all my energy has gone.

 

Joy 

[joy2730]

I have just read my above post, which I typed from my phone, and has loads of errors in it.  The phone guesses what I am trying to say.  It should say 'the aches and pains are definitely withdrawal' but it says something about insurance.  'lived own nowc' should say 'for a little while'.

 

Anyway I have just got up now and feel a little more rested, but my energy has just up and gone. 

 

You are getting some good days though Flowers, aren't you, just random bits of withdrawal symptoms.  Has your two weekly cycle of symptoms gone now?  I didn't sound very sympathetic to you in my above post Flowers, for which I apologise, I was thinking out loud and sounded a bit harsh. 

 

I am beginning to think that when people are older, just as it takes longer for a physical illness to resolve, it probably takes longer for withdrawal symptoms to resolve.  I feel I am not bouncing back as quickly as I should, that it is taking more out of me.

 

But I have had a great family day and have a lot to be thankful for.  I have a roof over my head and people around me who love me and enough money, I have had a very difficult life but have survived it, so I basically am in a very good place.  I have a job I love, which I can adapt as my situation changes. 

 

I do feel this withdrawal makes me feel unwell, which I resent, but acceptance of where I am needs to take place in my head.  At least I share my problems with many on this board and in society.

 

Joy

[joy2730]

I feel a bit better this morning but am still going to take painkillers today but not tomorrow and see how it goes then.  

My bodily pains have been awful.  My mood is stable today.  I am a bit more hopeful that I can stick at 17 mg.  I will start to count the number of days I have felt awful when I and if I eventually stabilise.

 

I am symptom free as I type this.

 

Joy

[Flowers]

Hi Joy

 

Glad you are feeling better and enjoyed the christening.

 

I didn't think you were harsh in your post so no need to apologise. What you said was quite correct.  I am now experiencing longer windows than the two week cycle and waves are shorter. I think I am stabilising but it took a long time  a few years ago after WD first hit. I waited a year after reinstating to start tapering. I feel that works best for me. At some stage I will have to make a decision regarding tapering but at the moment am just sitting it out!

 

Sorry your aches and pains are still playing up. Hope you continue to feel better tomorrow.

 

Love from Flowers xxx

 

 

 

 

 

 

[joy2730]

Dear Flowers

 

I feel pretty wretched at present, very tense and insomnia seems to be kicking in.  I don't think I am going to last at 17 mg, but if I updose to 20 mg, I don't last there long either as I soon start to taper again.

 

I feel the withdrawal symptoms are starting to impact on my ability to do everyday life which is not good for me as I have really pulled my life around to get to this point and don't want to retire yet.  I have a lot going on with starting to hand the farm over to Ben my son and can't afford to feel so awful. 

 

This is my dilemma which I face time and time again.  The only good thing is I used to take 30 mg and wouldn't take that again, I would only take 20 mg and used to take loads of other heavy duty meds which I don't any more.  I feel it is useless discussing it with the doctors.  It is a trap for me.  Additonally I feel some pressure from boards like this as I do believe the advice and information on here is excellent, but I just find it doesn't fit in with my life at present. 

 

To make it worse my husband has cold turkeyed off his tramadol with few problems if any and he can't  understand why I react so badly to giving up a simple, common everyday drug which he calls a 'happy pill'.

 

Since last Friday I have stuffed my face with carbs and sweet things, and have not coped well at all and have eaten thought of going back on my mood stabilisers but they are horrible.  I don't think I look well and I am getting quite low.  It is horrible, but traditionally I used to get very depressed around the 16 to 18 September every year and would be in bed by Nov 5 so I am prepared to admit that may be in the background, but no one has any way of knowing.

 

Joy

[Flowers]

Hi Joy

 

I understand your situation and how much you have on your plate.  Maybe it is that you do too much and don't have enough rest that has brought on these symptoms. It  is very difficult in WD to get a balance of work, play and rest. I know if I don't get enough rest it can lead to a wave.

 

It could be that these symptoms will pass very quickly so try not to panic. Tomorrow could be the day that you start to feel better.

 

It is so hard to do nothing when you want to feel well.  

 

To updose again so quickly after the onset of these symptoms would be a shame as you have done so well at 17mgs but it has to be your decision.  I am not sure how long one can keep updosing to get relief - a mod will hopefully give you advice on that. 

 

Some people are lucky enough to not suffer from WD like your husband. It doesn't make it any easier for you though if he doesn't understand your problems.

 

None of us wants our lives to be on hold while dealing with all this. I am struggling terribly at the moment. I went out in the car to the mountains yesterday with some friends and felt very weird the whole day. Today I am paying for it and my symptoms are raging.  Been a week since this wave started so hoping it starts to ease off soon.

 

 

 

Love from Flowers xxx

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[joy2730]

I think you are so right Flowers,  I do too much, but I have spent years at home trying to get rid of depression and anxiety and different meds and I largely put my life on hold and never got it sorted anyway.   I regret those lost years now. If I knew by taking it easier I would be guaranteed I could get off citalopram I would drop everything right now and sit it out, but I know there are no guarantees.

 

What a horrid situation and when I tried to discuss it with my GP on the phone the other day she implied it was pointless discussing it as 'it is what it is' and 'there is no point in walking around feeling ill'.  Oh dear I am so fed up and angry today, I just feel like crying, but I guess that is only natural.

 

If I stabilise at 17 I will stop posting as much and just drop by to see what everyone is doing.  A lot of people I was following seem to have stopped posting, it is a shame they don't let us know what happens from then on in their lives.  I suppose it is only natural to move on. 

 

Hope you are having a good day Flowers.

 

I am going to google how many times you can updose and feel any benefit.

 

Joy

[apace41]

1 hour ago, joy2730 said:

 

I am going to google how many times you can updose and feel any benefit.

 

Joy,

 

Unfortunately, nobody can give you that answer.  There may or may not be a limit as the number of times you can "go back to the well."  We know that some people have an adverse reaction when they increase the dose after some period of doing that, but that does not apply to all nor is there any kind of consistency that can be predicted.  My question would be why you would go back to 20mg if you are uncomfortable rather than trying a smaller updose -- e.g. 17.5mg?

 

Best,

 

Andy

[joy2730]

Thanks Andy, I had just got round to thinking that myself.  I feel pretty rough so am going to try just that and see how I feel.

 

We just don't know how these drugs work, either when we take them or in withdrawal.

 

I have tried googling how many times you can updose and it is as you say something no one can answer.

 

thanks for your advice, it is most welcome, I will post again tomorrow to say how I got on, although I know the effect won't be instant - having said that I usually feel the benefits of going up in dose pretty quickly, which does seem to be a physical thing for me rather than a placebo effect.

 

Decision made, I am going to 18 mg tonight because I am really struggling.  I have recently changed from having my dose in the morning to about tea time as I read taking it at tea time can give you that afternoon sleepiness I get with citalopram in the night and so improve sleep.  I suppose having swapped this dose time around will not have helped, but anything is worth a go.  I will update my signature.  I hope this works as I like taking less than 20 mg it is just these symptoms are so awful.  I am really unbalanced on my feet today as well as all the other symptoms.

 

thanks to flowers and andy for your support.  My GP suggested taking a higher dose for a few days when symptoms were bad and then going back to a lower dose.  GPs are as in the dark as the rest of us.  Hopefully the mechanisms of withdrawal will be known in the future and this problem will not be as bad.

 

Joy

[apace41]

1 minute ago, joy2730 said:

My GP suggested taking a higher dose for a few days when symptoms were bad and then going back to a lower dose.  GPs are as more in the dark as the rest than those of us on SA. 

 

I fixed that for you, Joy.  

 

As you seem to be implying, your GPs advice, while well-intentioned, is concerning because the last thing you need right now is to "bounce around".  Let's work to get you stable -- hopefully at 18 -- and we can worry about going back down at some later date.  I know you have resigned yourself to staying on the med permanently, however, I suspect that was partly the symptoms talking.  Nobody can contemplate tapering off when they are in a wave.  As I know you are aware, there are numerous things that could have contributed to this wave, including your exercise routine, busy schedule, weather changes, food changes, etc.  While my suspicion is that since you did well on 17 for so long you would probably stabilize given enough time and a quieting of your CNS, a slight updose might well get you there much sooner.  This is about a 6% updose which will hopefully do the trick.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[joy2730]

Thanks Andy.  I have just checked my signature, I was on 17 mg since the middle of July so that is about 9 weeks and seemed to do well, and then all of a sudden this onslaught, so in my case the symptoms well and truly take ages to come to light.  A 4 weeks gap is reductions is too small for me, I clearly need a 12 week gap.

 

You are right I feel resigned to taking this citalopram for life, but it could be just the meds talking and the withdrawal process getting me down.  Still it would be better to take 18 mg for the rest of my life than 20 mg.  I really thought I was safe and settled at 17 mg, just shows how wrong I can be.

 

Yes my GP means well, and her suggestions may work for some, but not for me, my brain has been altered by chemicals for so long now I actually feel really sorry for it.

 

I would be over the moon with staying at 18 mg.  When we order pills from our GP we do it online and there is a little box for comments, I told her last week I was on 17 mg and when I order my next prescription I am going to explain I have had to go to 18 mg.  If we don't tell them what a struggle it is they will never know.  She said once you have trouble coming off them you just tend to repeat the pattern, may be true maybe not.

 

18 mg is still less than 30 mg.  This site is wonderful, I don't want to worry family members and they don't have this problem, my daughter got off sertraline after 2 yrs with not trouble and my husband has just cold turkeyed tramadol after 6 or 7 years and not felt anything.  My son says he would never take anything because he has watched me struggle and felt they never really helped me.

 

Thanks for the timely advice.

 

Joy

[apace41]

9 minutes ago, joy2730 said:

I was on 17 mg since the middle of July so that is about 9 weeks and seemed to do well, and then all of a sudden this onslaught, so in my case the symptoms well and truly take ages to come to light.  A 4 weeks gap is reductions is too small for me, I clearly need a 12 week gap.

 

 

That's a very odd pattern, Joy.  I'm not saying it is impossible, but it is rare for us to see someone who has a reaction 3 months out.  It is, in my view, FAR more likely that something tripped up your still sensitive CNS and triggered the issues.  I still see going back to 18 to try to settle things down as a reasonable approach, however, so the cause of the wave doesn't change things in that regard.

 

Hopefully, you will be back on track in a couple of days.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Flowers]

Hi Joy

 

I am so glad that Andy has steered you in the right direction and you have decided to go up to 18mgs.   Sometimes worrying about making a decision makes one feel worse!

 

I take my Cit at night and it definitely makes me drowsy so your sleep will hopefully improve.

 

I do understand why you want to live life to the full after all you have been through over the years.  I really hope you see some improvement soon Joy. It has worked for you before so fingers crossed.

 

Love from Flowers xxx

[bubble]

How about this challenge for you: what if next time you don't do anything about the drug (no up, no down) just wait for the symptoms to settle down on their own (like they do for all of us here all the time).

 

The next challenge would be this: next time when your symptoms increase for a day or two , catch that catastrophizing spiral that this is the end of your working career. It is just a bad probably short spell of mild to moderate symptoms which are a sign to slow down as Flowers wrote and treat yourself more gently. Many of us go to work when not at our best to say the least and we make it. Then there is the option of taking a day off work. Or two or a week. Everybody can do that.

 

You are stronger than this drug, stronger than these symptoms and stronger than your fear of the past repeating itself. You deserve to give yourself the chance to grow beyond that fear. The way your increases work looks more like a placebo, that is a strategy for dealing with fear.

 

It would be good to explore that fear in times when you are feeling stronger.

[joy2730]

It is interesting Andy that you say it is an unusual pattern to see problems after 9 weeks at a steady dose with no problems.  I am surprised myself.  My other unusual pattern is I usually respond to updosing more quickly than many on this site, perhaps there is a link, but it is all speculative.

 

Thank Flowers for 'watching' over my posts at this difficult  time.  Plenty for you to learn from while watching me!  I am now going to revisit my signature and check when I made my previous reductions.  I am beginning to think that reductions should be made in a uniform manner and not haphazardly like I tend to do, some short gaps and some long gaps.  Thanks Bubble for your comments, I am sure they are totally valid and will revisit them when I am feeling stronger.  It is also significant that I turned to overeating this weekend when I started to feel so bad - this is as much a part of my weight gain as the citalopram, but I hadn't realised this til recently.  I am learning a lot about myself at present, not just AD withdrawal.  I am touched that people I will never meet take the time to support me. 

 

I am interested Flowers that you take your meds at night time.  I was always told to take them in the morning as they can disturb sleep, but again it is I am sure an individual issue.  Thanks also for understanding how I have lost years to these meds issues already.

 

The things that may have destabilised my CNS recently are too much exercise/sauna and busyness.  Also my husband has just had his second hip replacement, which although has gone perfectly, is probably deep down a stressor.   I have also been thinking about the best time for us to leave our farm business to my son, which is a mighty big change for me and I know I have struggled to get my head around that.

 

Joy

[apace41]

17 minutes ago, joy2730 said:

The things that may have destabilised my CNS recently are too much exercise/sauna and busyness.  Also my husband has just had his second hip replacement, which although has gone perfectly, is probably deep down a stressor.   I have also been thinking about the best time for us to leave our farm business to my son, which is a mighty big change for me and I know I have struggled to get my head around that.

 

These are all potential exacerbating issues, Joy, but I suspect that one possible cause is that once you start to feel badly you very quickly get anxious about what is happening to you which causes your thoughts to spiral and you are immediately led to think -- "perhaps I should go back to 20."  That then causes you to be further anxious.  In response your body then starts to crave sweets and carbs and other comfort foods and that in turn disregulates your blood sugar and further compounds the anxiety.  It is a vicious cycle that happens to many of us and because the meds have destabilized our CNS we are far more challenged to employ self-soothing techniques.  Not impossible mind you but much harder.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[joy2730]

Hi

 

Took 18 mg last night a day slept well and today I feel a tiny bit better but who knows.  Sweating and nausea have eased and so have the aches and pains and I don't feel as low.

 

I really hope I can stabilise at 18 mg.

 

Will post tomorrow 

 

Thank for all your advice.

 

Joy

[apace41]

Joy, 

 

Don't forget that it can take up to 3-4 days for a dose change to really take effect.  If you are seeing some improvement that is a good sign.  Keep track but try not to be overly focused as that can cause more symptoms (or at least recognition of them).

 

Best,

 

Andy

[joy2730]

Thank you - I may have felt better today anyway but am really glad I have updosed to 18 mg

 

I have thus weird history of feeling better soon after up dosing which I's probably psychological.

 

I am feeling better without going to 20 and that is worth a lot to me but if I do have bipolar as once diagnosed it is mind understanding that you do react more quickly to dose changes but no one really knows.  I was like this with dothiepin.

 

Joy

[apace41]

1 minute ago, joy2730 said:

if I do have bipolar as once diagnosed it is mind understanding that you do react more quickly to dose changes but no one really knows. 

 

Bi-polar is very largely a "crap" diagnosis.  I highly doubt you are bi-polar.  

 

In addition, you would do well to avoid the tendency of labeling.  That is what the psychiatric world and the drug companies want you to do.  That leads to medication.  Just understand that you are having some adverse symptoms, whatever they may be, but they won't stay with you forever.  You will get better and not because you are swinging from "pole to pole."

Best,

 

Andy

[Flowers]

Hi Joy

 

Good to read you are feeling  better and that you slept well.  

 

I think a lot of us on here try to do too much because we want to feel normal, have family and work  commitments etc.  I know I am guilty of this. I have had to adapt though and try to rest when I can. If it means leaving the dirty dishes or an important phone call until the next day I do but it is hard for me. I like everything in order.

 

I hope you will give yourself a chance to unwind and recharge whenever you can. That way you will be fitter to enjoy all the things you are involved with. 

 

Let us know how you are tomorrow.

 

Love and hugs

 

Flowers xxx

 

 

 

 

 

 

[joy2730]

Hi Flowers

 

You are so right Flowers, tomorrow I have nothing on at all, so it is chill time.  I am beginning to recognise that I had to take it easier.  I think I am trying to prove something to myself though - a dangerous way to think.

 

I have just turned down some work for next week, after all I am not particularly short of money, so what exactly am I doing it for.

 

This withdrawal, although I can't really 'crack' it, is teaching me so much about myself.

 

I am taking Andy's advice of not dwelling on any symptoms. 

 

One thing I noticed today was that my hands were a bit more shaky  than usual.  That I think is a sign that my CNS has taken a bit of a hammering these last few days.

 

I have taken my cit 18 at 6pm again tonight.

 

Joy

[joy2730]

Hi Andy

 

Your comments about bipolar are very interesting, I have heavily bought into the concept over the years but have had doubts all along at the same time.  My doubts lead me to discontinue my mood stabilisers and when I didn't get ill again, despite all the doctors saying I would get very ill again, I really began to have doubts.

 

When I look back over my life I can see how I may have been misdiagnosed.

 

It is a disgrace that people can be heavily medicated for life when they do not need to be. 

At my local surgery we once had a GP partner who didn't fit in with the other partners in his thinking and one day he said to me 'I don't think you have bipolar at all, just stop taking the lithium', when the other GPs were saying you must take it until the day you die or you will be very ill, and if you miss a dose it might never work for you again (this was to scare patients into complying with the routine).  This particular GP didn't stay very long as a partner and asked to be bought out.  He obviously had his own observations in medicine and didn't always agree with the rest.

 

However, I have never forgotten his words and he was probably a very good GP, just not the sort they wanted in the practice.

 

Joy

[joy2730]

Hi everyone

 

Took 18 mg last night and seem to be doing a lot better, but who  knows.  I am no longer taking pain killers for my aches and pains.  So glad I am feeling better.

 

Up to now I have never believed that updosing such small amounts could be effective, but I am beginning to rethink that concept too.

 

There was a programme on UK TV last night which I caught randomly about 8 or 9 pm about how only 5% of people on 'happy pills' really need to be on them and how the NHS is being crippled by the cost of everyone on these meds, so perhaps now there is a financial problem to people being dependent on these meds the problem of dependency and withdrawal will be addressed.

 

Joy

[PinballWizard]

Joy,

 

It has been a while since I read your post.  I know it has been a long road.  I recently began tapering my Celexa from 20 mg to 19 mg a day.  Luckily, my pharmacy carries the liquid Celexa, which makes it easy to measure.  The withdrawal symptoms are not fun.  Today is day 13 (started tapering on September 16).  Last two days have been the roughest.  Your journey has given me a lot of insight.  I found it easier to talk to my doctor.  He was a little worried about me tapering.  Once I convinced him, he was shocked that I was only reducing my dose 1 mg and was going to wait at least 4 weeks before making the decision to reduce again.  I expected my reaction and withdrawal symptoms because of your posts.  Thank you so much!

 

PinballWizard (Wiz)

[Flowers]

Hi Joy

 

Hope you have had a nice relaxing day and things are going better for you.

 

I get shaking hands when in a wave so that is like you say a good indicator that your CNS has been unstable.

 

Love from Flowers xxx

[joy2730]

Hi Flowers

 

I am so glad you told me about your shaky hands.  It is such a comfort to know others have experienced the same, this is the value of this site. 

 

Now you have to laugh at this, my thighs are very fatty and this morning I noticed the fat on my thighs was shaking even though I was sitting perfectly still.  So I have definitely been unsettled. 

 

I still feel unsettled but it is easier somehow and I don't feel as low, like today I haven't felt any nausea at all and I slept well. 

 

I have been quietly tidying stuff up at home and my daughter and son-in-law and Esme visited for an hour, which is good as I normally visit them, and it was more restful for me to have them visit here.

 

I do feel a lot better for having a day to myself, so as there is only one me, and I am going to give myself more days to myself.  I have to for my own wellbeing.  I have a strong need to prove myself at work but I am starting to have a strong need to feel and be as healthy as I can.

 

I am doing so much better on 18 mg, have a bit of hope now that I am on the right path.

 

One thing has occurred to me, if these small dose changes can help then we must measure out our liquid really really carefully, something I tend to hurry a bit, especially when I was taking it on a morning, but I will be able to be more careful now I am taking it at 6 pm.

 

Take care Flowers, it is always great to hear from you.  I hope you are learning from my mistakes and my successes.

 

Joy

[joy2730]

Hi PinballWizard

 

Thank you for your kind comments.  As you can see I am far from a good place but I am doing well in my own way.  I have made so many mistakes along the way due to ignorance really and a refusal to believe it could be so hard.  I thought people who measured out tiny liquid doses were literally 'crazy' but I know now that I was the 'crazy' one.

 

I know now what slow means, what steady means, and am now learning that updosing small amounts can help, whereas before I always believed you could only achieve stability by going back to a much higher dose.  I was wrong.

 

I have been messing around a good 3 years now and have only gone from 30 mg to 18 mg, but that is better than having taken 30 mg every day for all that time.

 

My doctors are reluctant to prescribe the liquid for me, I suspect it costs them more than me making my own liquid.  I tell my doctors my problem with withdrawal as it is, there is no point in them not knowing.  I think people are secretly ashamed that they are having some many problems reducing and feel it is an indicator they are still not well and therefore don't feel they can tell their doctors exactly how bad it is.  There is nothing wrong with holding your hands up and telling the truth - I keep asking mine to document carefully my struggle to withdraw.

 

I think I am following you already but I will check and if not I will follow you.

 

At the moment I am considering taking 18 mg for the rest of my life, as I can't see me managing any further progress, but if I have a long stretch of stability at 18 mg I might try a bit more. 

 

I think some of the trouble is that people go to the doctors with symptoms of anxiety and depression and giving SSRIs is an easy quick and cheap way of the doctor dealing with the problem.  The doctor feels they have addressed the problem and done something and the patient feels their symptoms have been given official recognition by a professional and have a solution in the form of a prescription.  The patient immediately feels more hopeful.

 

However, there isn't any pill that can solve the day to day financial, employment and relationship difficulties that lead to individuals taking SSRIs.  I think these drugs do have a role in certain depressions though, I saw them work very well for my daughter when she was 17, but not to be given year in year out just because of withdrawal difficulties.

 

I will continue to post, it helps me and if it helps anyone else, like you Pinballwizard, Flowers, Frogie or anyone else that all for the better.

 

Will post tomorrow.  Lets all commit to a better future for ourselves, and use the internet to further that end.

 

Joy

[Flowers]

Hi Joy

 

I get the shakes everywhere but it is more noticeable in my hands. Sorry,  I did have a little chuckle about your  shaky thighs!  I am sure mine would look worse than yours though!

 

I am glad the small updose seems to have done the trick.  These drugs are strong which is why we are advised to do only small reductions when tapering I suppose and to be vigilant if using liquid. Can get a bit difficult sometimes with my shaky hands so my husband does it!

 

I know from experience that if I am stressed or tired it brings on a whole load of symptoms. Maybe we cannot cope with so much in WD.  I have just about weighed up my limitations now and like you have learnt when it is time to put my feet up. Very frustrating when I am a usually active and busy person. 

 

We all have made our mistakes and have had successes haven't we? I am still getting over the mistake I made in switching to Ven.  But we are all different and only human and thankfully no one judges us here as they know themselves how mixed up we can get in WD.

 

Today, I had a bad early morning, an OK middle of the day, a horrible late afternoon and now the symptoms are easing. Have felt hot and nauseous mostly so am hoping I can eat something for supper if only a bit of toast.

 

Flowers xxx

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[joy2730]

Thanks Flowers

 

I hate that hot, sweaty, sick feeling - it seems to be something a lot of people get. 

 

When I withdrew from dothiepin I was the opposite, I was so cold I wore thermal underwear all the time and would put 2 hot water bottles next to me in bed all the time.  Now I sleep with af fan on and the window open - in UK!  I don't know what is worse, feeling hot or cold - I just want to feel comfortable.

 

Tomorrow I am only working 9.30 to 1.  I could have chosen a full day but decided to 'like and respect' myself.  I am learning all sorts.

 

Joy