☼ Wildflower0214 Effexor WD and PTSD

[Wildflower0214]

Crazy Katie,

 

I'm glad your feeling ok. As I mentioned I had 100% sleepless night last night, so I'm pretty tired and worn out. More depressed today than anything.

 

But, glad your at least getting a window. I'm going to find your intro to read about your experience. How long are you into the WD process?

[westcoast]

I came off Ritalin/Daytrana/Adderal while basically in psychosis. I was put on Effexor right away and then told to discontinue it right away when it made me worse. All of that was after the Ativan which was really just a blip. This was late 2012. Then I was still basically psychotic (bizarre beliefs, paranoia, terror of authorities and doctors, railing at friends about communism, etc.) It's very embarassing and of course I lost a lot of friends--most of them, even old ones. I also lost my income and a lot lot lot of cash on hand.

I spent 2013 in a combo of mania, terror, despair, and paranoia.

I've spent 2014 in general agitation, despair, depression, and a desire to not be alive. Much of this is due to the oputcome of the iatrogenic madness, and much of it seems to be neurologic.

But it all began in 2009, when I became manic after a hospital forgot to give me my Effexor after a surgery. It led to a fake bipolar diagnosis, adventures with anti-psychotics, seizures. I gained 60 pounds on Lithium. I lost it again on Ritalin. The years between 2009-2012 were simply a series of bumbling shrinks filling me with crap chemicals for an ailment i didn;t have (bipolar.)

I was so bloody TRUSTING. I'm rambling...there was also Wellbutrin in the mix... details and timing unclear. Why give a supposed bipolar patient wellbutrin, ritalin, or effexor anyway?

 

 

[Rhiannon]

JDM--

 

Just skimmed through your thread and there's one thing that might help you. Ativan is a short-acting benzo. When you take it, blood levels go up, then after a couple of hours they start to drop. When blood levels drop, we can get an increase in anxiety, panic attacks, etc. 

 

The same thing happens with Xanax, another short-acting benzo.

 

There is a solution, and that is to take multiple small doses evenly spaced throughout the day and night. That will keep blood levels more stable and consistent and can alleviate the "interdose withdrawal" attacks. You want to take the same amount each time, evenly spaced in time.

 

The people I've known who've done this with Ativan seem to do okay taking doses four to six hours apart. Sometimes people can go a full eight hours during the night. Personally, me (tapering Xanax) I have to wake up and take a dose during the night. But people are different, and Ativan is not quite as short acting as Xanax.

 

Since you're on a pretty low dose, you'll probably need to make it into a liquid in order to break it up into small, even doses. There's information on how to make liquid suspensions and how to measure them, in the Tapering section. It's really easier than it sounds.

[Wildflower0214]

Rhi,

 

Thank you for the response!! I'm going to have to get the nerve to start making liquid suspensions. Lol my integrative dr said she will compound it for me. So, that's helpful. I would be scared to screw it up.

 

But thank you! I will consider that.

[Wildflower0214]

WestCoast,

Good grief! That's horrendous. I'm so sorry for you. But thank you for the encouragement!!!!! Sooooooo much!

I have this new found paralyzing fear that I'm a a bipolar even though every shrink tells me I'm not. So I'm afraid to even feel good, because I've spent years where every feeling is monitored by someone wanting to throw pills at me!

It's a mess. Just praying I sleep tonight! Hope u do to!

[Wildflower0214]

WestCoast,

 

So, if I'm reading correctly, you never had

mania aside from being on meds or coming off of them. Correct?

[crazykatie]

JDM

I'm am 8 weeks this week off my Invega another newer antipsychotic that is basically processed as risperal but is a 24 hour released pill. I am one week free of Wellbutrin. I've gotta create my signature still but for some reason I can't see what I'm typing in it on my phone or tablet. Strange. I have a laptop but I'm never on it. Maybe I will create it later today.

My invega w/d was experienced once for a week following my third day of stopping. I didn't have the insomnia or anxiety/panic that I experienced like following w/d effects like I did about four weeks off. That was when the insomnia, heart palpitations, shortness of breath n extreme muscle tension. That lasted about three weeks. It was horrible. Xanax, trazadone n kava kava provided no relief. I lost 16 lbs at least from no appetite and diarrhea. I just drank a ton of milk everyday to get at least some nutrients in my system.

The worst fear I had upon quitting was that my suicidal thoughts would return. Thank God, they didn't.

I told my family and boyfriend that no matter how bad it was, do NOT put me in the psych ward. I informed them that this was gonna be difficult. However, I had NOT a clue as it to how bad it would be.

I'm free from at least two psych meds as of present. However, I'm still on prozac n lamotrigine, xanax at night back to 1 -1.5 mg opposed to 3 mg during the prior three weeks in addition to trazadone. I still have quite a bit to do before I am completely free. However, I'm not going to attempt to get off those right now. I'm giving my body a few more months to adjust.

Do you go to therapy as well?

Wishing you well.

[Wildflower0214]

Crazy Katie,

 

Yes, I do go to therapy. Somedays it helps more than others. Lol I'm glad to hear you are sleeping at least! What a blessing in and of itself! How in the heck did they label you bipolar with no mania?! Never ceases to amaze me!

[crazykatie]

I think my shrink is very quick to dx without even really looking through his past notes. Heck EVERYTIME I saw him I had to tell him what meds I was on!! Hmm don't you already know that considering your prescribing them. I saw him first in my very early twenties. I came back every couple of years with severe depression.

However, when my life came crashing down, suddenly I was bipolar?? It doesn't make any sense. I've still never experienced any periods of not sleeping, being hypermania, even mood swings. Yes I had a bad temper, but I had that under control in my mid twenties.

I was depressed. Trying all means to kill myself until my body started shutting down, then since the other md in like gastroenterologist, general practitioner, so on n so forth. My doc put me directly in the psych ward n when the meds didn't help initially, I was sent back to the psych ward to only be informed that shock therapy was my only chance!! My shrink convinced me that this was necessary!! I went through many rounds of treatment of three times weekly treatments over 5 months. Now when I think about what I subjected myself to, I am sickened!! I do have to say I've always thought that this treatment made me mentally slow. I have realized that since quitting my invega. My brain is functioning normal again.

My shrink told me I couldn't work. I couldn't handle the stress. I had to go on disability. I had a professional career making great money. Excelled at my job n was promoted within three years. I could do it. What I couldn't handle was the ptsd. I needed therapy. I needed to open up. No one even knew about any of my sexual traumas until 5 years ago. I kept it buried for years only to be haunted by it for years. I'm dealing with it now in therapy and I have made much progress since I started. Therapy will prolly be needed for years. But that's ok. I'm getting healthy!!!

I hope you experience the same. Healing from traumatic experiences is very difficult n intense. However, when we finally address it n face the horrors and can accept them n start to heal is taking a huge leap forward! Cheering for you. I'll get my Pom Poms from college out. Lol.

[westcoast]

To answer your question: Correct. I'd made it to age 49 without any mania events. Just some run of the mill depression at times. Always got through it by fixing the life problem (job, unemployment, wrong relationship, etc).

During iatrogenic mania I'd go without sleep for days and even weeks (Ritalin phase). I spend money wildly, ruined my business, did all kinds of things that undid 49 years of mostly sober, well-considered living.

[Wildflower0214]

Crazy Katie,

I'm sorry for you. Thank you for the encouragement. I know I will get better, but I have to get to a point of believing it in my heart. That God has a plan for me. And that I will come out on the other side. I do not want to have a victim mentality as that helps nothing!!! Thanks for your cheers. I will pray for you whenever I pray for myself ???? you are a miracle just to have survived wht you described. I read your thread. You will overcome.

[Wildflower0214]

West Coast,

Sorry to hear that. Thanks for sharing. Do you get out of the house much? I made the mistake of reading some other threads and they are scary. Good grief. I guess I have to be more discriminating. :-/

[westcoast]

I do not get out of the house enough. I am uncomfortable with the idea, but trying to force myself today. So far I managed to bathe and dress. How about you?

[crazykatie]

JDM,

 

You got one statement wrong.

 

WE WILL OVERCOME!!

 

Keep optimistic. Dwelling on how bad it is only makes it worse. Try to look for some positives. Even if they are minute. They still count.

Just taking the step to go to therapy is HUGE!! That means your ready to address, face and try to heal from your past. That is the first step in recovering!!

[Wildflower0214]

Katie,

True!!!! I've honestly had the crap scared out of me, I had to taper Effexor too fast because I had an adverse reaction, and apparently it may get worse months down the line. Which I don't even want to think about. But, it may be fine, so I'm going to pray and let it be.

[Wildflower0214]

West coast,

I bathe pretty much every day and get out of the house at least once a day to get decaf coffee or to the grocery store. But, then I go through periods where I have a hard time keeping my hair washed. Lol so good days and not so good days.

[Wildflower0214]

For Today:

Didnt sleep last night at all, but still got up and out of the house with teeth brushed and face washed.

Got locked out of the house and managed to keep my cool and not blow it out of proportion. At least it's not 20 degrees right now. Lol sitting could be much worse.

Also, spent some time in the fresh air on my porch and also by my creek.

Stuck to my first day of elimination diet, as I am trying to eliminate food intolerances. Not easy, no cream in coffee, and eating only about ten whole food items for the next few days, but doing it.

Realizing today that my real "diagnosis" is fear and anger, both of which do not have to control me.

 

I want to post as much as possible, so my story will help others in the future.

 

Last, I do not believe God has left me in a heap. He has a plan.

[NewMe]

WestCoast,

Good grief! That's horrendous. I'm so sorry for you. But thank you for the encouragement!!!!! Sooooooo much!

I have this new found paralyzing fear that I'm a a bipolar even though every shrink tells me I'm not. So I'm afraid to even feel good, because I've spent years where every feeling is monitored by someone wanting to throw pills at me!

It's a mess. Just praying I sleep tonight! Hope u do to!

Hi JDM

 

I am familiar with the fear of what - ifs and the fear of fear...brought about from severe panic attacks. Mine have been with me since childhood though wd (ct) as well as when on RX has caused me to be hyper vigilant in waiting for the possibility of the other shoe to drop.

 

I feel the raw feelings you experienced prime you for wanting to preemptively prepare vis a vis worry. That type of strategy will compound your sensitive nervouse system. 

 

No matter what you are diagnosed with, try to roll with it and not buy trouble in stinking thinking. It's tough when you are in withdrawal but once you level out it will get easier. 

 

We cannot predict what will happen or what lie ahead, but pre emptive worry will not help you prepare or feel better. Being proactive may help. Such as taking this journey one step at a time. 

 

Anger is also rooted in fear, IMO. So there is something that may help you to roll with things. If you know what you are dealing with it is easier to be proactive than imagining things that are not even on the menu - such as bipolar - as per your Dr

[Wildflower0214]

NewMe,

Thank you for the encouragement. Yes, the hypervigilance is not helpful because it keeps me constantly on edge which I'm sure doesn't help my nervous system. I am working on taking everything one hour at a time. I will go find your thread, but how long are u into this process?

[Wildflower0214]

Today:

Slept last night. I know because I can remember dreams. Before the WD I never had problems

with sleep. I don't look at the clock when I wake up, because the next day if I know I only got 2 hours of sleep, then I believe I begin to act as if I only had 2 hours. So, better to just not know.

 

Tried to get out of the house, but having extreme fatigue and tachycardia. I have POTS syndrome. It's hard to explain, but it's a disregulated nervous system. So, when I'm physically tied I get rapid heart rate.

 

Still sticking to my elimination diet to avoid and fish out intolerances . Im going to see a nutritionist about this, just trying to give me nervous system as much of a break as I can.

No dairy, gluten, sugar.

 

Managed to get dressed and shower etc.

 

And sitting in some fresh air on the porch. May even try and take a drive a little later just to get out.

 

Making an effort to read Scripture and spend time in prayer lately. It does help.

[Wildflower0214]

Also, I wanted to add, I have been very angry at the NP who haulted my Lexepro cold turkey and put me on Effexor, and oversaw an Ativan taper that was much too rapid.

 

I saw her yesterday, as I needed an RX for the Ativan. I noticwd her demeanor had softened since last i saw her. The pridefullness was gone. Surprisingly, she told me that she saw I was depressed but was AFRAID to even recommend meds to me. So, at least she recognizes that my experience is valid. This is huge!

 

Also, she gave me the title of a book to read about overcoming depression naturally. Whether it proves useful is irrelevant. She told me not to pay her for the visit, but to instead use the money to buy the book she thought would help me. She made an attempt to correct her wrongdoing. She also informed me that she is closing her practice, which has only been open a short time, which she says is for health reasons, but I believe she has been very disturbed by the outcome of my experience and the part she knows she played in it.

 

As I left towards the door in tears, she took both of my hands in hers and began to pray for me. Then she hugged me and told me she cared about me.

 

This is a gift from God. An opportunity for forgiveness. An opportunity for healing.

[crazykatie]

Here is an article about that doctor is Ashville that works with you to taper.

 

https://mountainx.com/news/community-news/measuring_mental_health_local_practitioners_groups_reject_mainstream_t/

 

Hope it helps

[Wildflower0214]

Ok.

Tracking my anxiety.

It sucks in the morn

Ok in the afternoon

Sucks big time at night.

On .25 mg ativan at night and have held at this dose for many months as to prevent WD. Had to take a bit extra the other night, and although I did not sleep, it calmed me, so I don't think I'm have a paradoxical reaction, is the insomnia ssri wd? I just find it interesting there is such a pattern to it.

[Altostrata]

You may be having a rebound reaction from the Ativan. Please see this forum http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/29-members-only-benzo-tapering-discussion/
 

By the way, "depression" is a common side effect of benzos.

[Wildflower0214]

Well, even if I am, what to do? I haven't slept in three solid days and am totally not out of the woods with the Effexor WD yet. I would be forced to up the dose or taper. I took some extra last night and still no sleep at all! Didnt seem to make much of a difference.

[Altostrata]

Please see this forum http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/29-members-only-benzo-tapering-discussion/

[Meimeiquest]

Hi,

 

We share a couple of things, two being that my first drug issue was with Sudafed as well and I had a reaction to an SNRI after years on an SSRI. The two things I have particularly heard of that may help bring nori/epi and cortisol down biologically are Epsoms salt baths and sweating. I don't know if you are well enough for sweating or not. Also, stimulating the Vagus nerve which stimulates the parasympathetic nervous system is helpful, through slow deep breathing (our lungs connect to this nerve) and maximizing gut health. I was at a class recently where it was said that the Vagus nerve is 70% efferent, collecting data. It wants to know that we are safe, breathing calmly with a happy gut, before it overrides the sympathetic nervous system. For what it's worth...I'm sure I have many ideas that aren't actually true.

[Wildflower0214]

Thank you soo much for your ideas.

I need some serious advice, I haven't slept in days and am feeling revved up. :-/

I have no diagnosis of bipolar. So I'm a bit scared.

[Meimeiquest]

When you say haven't slept, what do you mean? Don't feel tired and don't sleep, exhausted but can't sleep, fall asleep briefly and wake up, etc. what do you do through the night?

[Wildflower0214]

No sleep at all. I just get up or lay in the bed and wait to sleep. This was NEVER a problem before this WD. I always always slept. And the next day I'm tired, but tonight I'm not so much which is crazy because I haven't slept in days. It has to be the WD.

[Meimeiquest]

How many nights have you not slept at all? Are you taking Ativan 0.25mg at bedtime? I am sorry, I really don't have the knowledge to help you, but I hope someone else will see your answer and have some ideas.

[btdt]

No sleep at all. I just get up or lay in the bed and wait to sleep. This was NEVER a problem before this WD. I always always slept. And the next day I'm tired, but tonight I'm not so much which is crazy because I haven't slept in days. It has to be the WD.

I use to go days without sleeping sometimes I would lay in bed quietly waiting for sleep or just resting it became "my sleep" 

Occasionally it would go on too long and I would start to go from being a bit mad to slipping right off the edge.  At those extreme times I would take a tiny bit of  benadryl  maybe 1/3 a tablet it would help.  I could not take benzo's after the effexor cold turkey I took two benzos the first was ok but I was already exhausted  the second attempt the next day caused a paradoxical reaction (which means it caused the opposite effect ... I could not sit down) I hear this is uncommon in adults but common in kids with these meds.  Either way it cured me of ever trying a benzo again that was in 2008.  

I am not saying your benzo is doing this to you not at all I think you would notice a pattern if it were. I am just saying there are other things besides benzos to help you sleep.  I limited the use of the antihistamine because I felt there was a rebound reaction from it too... I only used it in desperate situations.  I had this idea that it set back my healing somewhat...and I didn't like that. 

 

A few years ago I attempted to use Taurine to calm down a run of mirgraines and found it calmed my system down nicely and I did not have any fallout from it.  Mind you I start all supplements at 1/6th the recommended dose.  I can now tolerate a small dose  of taurine  once in awhile if I am jittery it calms me... without any fallout I don't know if the effect would have been the same had I tried it in hard early withdrawal or not I did not know about it. 

 

For me mag was good for a less than a wk then it turned on me,  

I can recommend epson salt baths and heat on the spine.  Deep relaxation is the best sleep or no sleep calm is good. 

I wish you peace. 

[Altostrata]

JDM, that is a very typical withdrawal insomnia pattern. Please see

Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

[Wildflower0214]

I've taken 10 mg of melatonin lately. I used to take five for years, but it didnt cut it when I got sick in WD. From what I read that's way too much. Also, has anyone ever had a negative response to enzymes? I was thinking of trying them.

[Wildflower0214]

Btdt,

Thank you for advice! I think we may have similar nervous system issues! Lol. Thank you for the advice. I have never had trouble sleeping, and it was an escape my whole life. So I feel like someone kicked my crutch out from underneath me. How far off your Effexor ct are you?

[btdt]

I quit E November 17 2007 150mg after 7 years use.