jen84: Effexor withdrawal

[jen84]

Thanks for the reply Gridley, I've updated my signature. The past few drops I've only been decreasing by 2mg which I think is just over the 10mg? 

[jen84]

How do I know if its the side effects of the actual wellbutrin that are causing anxiety or if it is coming from withdrawal? I made a decrease of just over 10% almost 3 months ago, and I am still having anxiety. I am willing to wait this out, but just wondering if there is a way to tell the difference?

[Gridley]

This is a quote from Alto:

"Bupropion tends to be energizing and often causes anxiety, agitation, nervousness, loss of appetite, and insomnia as side effects. Bupropion usually is not an appropriate treatment for withdrawal symptoms, as it can aggravate them."
   

This points toward side effects of the Wellburton as causing your anxiety, as opposed to withdrawal.  I would continue the taper but not any faster than you've done.  If possible, i would bring the taper within 10%/4weeks.  This is not a magic number but a safe number.

[jen84]

Thanks for clearing that up Gridley. This makes me feel relieved, but also nervous for future decreases. My current syringe is fairly large, so I will look for a smaller one, so I can make even smaller decreases if needed. I will wait until I'm feeling a bit better before making my next decrease.

[jen84]

Just curious, does anyone know the effects on energy levels while tapering? My energy has been lacking for months now. 

 

I dropped 10%, from 21 to 20mg (10mg 2x daily). Fingers crossed for a smooth decrease.

[jen84]

Two weeks in, and so far this is a very smooth decrease, with very minimal effects. Will reassess in two more weeks.

[Gridley]

That's great, jen84.  Good to hear it.

[jen84]

I made a 10% decrease from 20mg to 18mg (9mg 2x daily). I've been feeling pretty good lately. Anxiety is always lingering around, but still manageable. I've been noticing that I am fidgeting a lot, and grinding my teeth lately. Some days it feels like I've had 10 cups of coffee, and I don't even drink coffee. This must be a side effect from the wellbutrin.

[Gridley]

You might want to get a night guard for your teeth in case you're grinding them at night.

 

Could you please update your signature to reflect you recent dose changes?

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

 

[jen84]

Updated my signature.

 

I'm wondering if I could change my decreases to every 3 weeks, instead of 4? So far, I don't think I've really had any withdrawal issues, I think its coming from the side effects of the actual wellbutrin itself. Anxiety, anxiousness, jittery, sleeplessness sometimes and irritable sometimes.

[Gridley]

I can't tell you whether the symptoms you are experiencing are side effects or withdrawal, but they are classic withdrawal symptoms.

 

Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

 

I can tell you that as you get to the lower doses, SA recommends going slower, not faster, either with smaller cuts or longer holds between cuts.

 

The excerpt below about faster tapers, written by Altostata, the site's founder, is from 
Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

"If you think you can taper faster than 10% per month, follow this harm reduction approach to starting your taper:

• Initially, make a 10% reduction and hold there for a MONTH. It can take several weeks for withdrawal symptoms to emerge. Do that again the second month.
• If you have very minor or no symptoms from these 2 reductions, you can try reducing by 10% (calculated on the last dosage, the amount of decrease keeps getting smaller) every 3 weeks. Do that twice. If no problems, reduce by 10% every 2 weeks. Do that twice.
• If no problems after 4.5 months of very gradual reduction, you may be able to reduce by 10% every week.
• If significant withdrawal symptoms appear, STOP TAPERING. Hold at your current dosage for some months, stabilize, then make smaller cuts or go slower. Listen to your body.
• If you do not stabilize after some months, consider a slight updose and hold to stabilize. You will not be able to taper faster than 10% per month after that, and may need to go even slower.
• "Jump off" at the end when you are taking less than 98% of the original dose and reductions no longer cause any reaction at all.

Under this method, the fastest taper takes about 12 months."

[jen84]

Thanks so much for that informative post Gridley. I think I will do the 4 weeks with this dose, and on my next one try the three weeks.

 

Its very difficult to differentiate between withdrawal symptoms, and side effects of wellbutrin. For me, I prefer to think of it as side effects, makes me feel better. I was reading through the side effects the other day, and I am definitely experiencing a lot of that too. I suppose maybe its a mix of everything. 

[jen84]

About a week ago I dropped from 18mg (9mg 2x daily) down to 16mg (8mg 2x daily). I was feeling really good on the last dose, until the week before i dropped, and the anxiety hit me. Since making my last drop, the anxiety has gone away. I've noticed this pattern in the past few drops actually. I feel really good until the 3rd or 4th week into the drop, then I get the usual withdrawal symptoms. I feel amazing for the first three weeks, its been a really long time since I've felt like that. I will see how im feeling at the 3 week mark, and go from there.

 

I have a question about tapering wellbutrin and pregnancy. My partner and I are ready to start trying, but we are both a little nervous about me getting pregnant while on this stuff. I did read that taking wellbutrin while pregnant may cause heart defects. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[jen84]

Today I've dropped from 16mg to 14mg (7mg 2xdaily). I realize this is over the 10% reduction that is recommended, (16%) fingers crossed it goes ok.

 

This last week I was feeling pretty anxious and easily irritated... Seems to be the trend though in the 3rd/4th week after a decrease.

 

In my last post I was asking about pregnancy while tapering, anyone have any thoughts/suggestions? 

 

[jen84]

I wonder if the 16% drop was too much? I'm feeling a bit depressed, more than anything. The anxiety is there, actually.  It's hard to tell the difference between the two.  Anyways,  I'm 2 weeks into this drop,  just wondering if I should updose or hold at this for a while? The past week has been tough. I've had maybe 3 or 4 days out of the past 2 weeks where I felt pretty good.  Doesn't feel the same as my other drops. 

[jen84]

Dropped from 14mg to 12.4 mg (11.5%) one week ago. So far feeling pretty good.

[jen84]

Dropped from 12.4 to 11.6 mg today, 10%. I've been feeling pretty good, Anxiety comes and goes. Im meeting my new family dr tomorrow, so will see what she says about my taper.

[jen84]

Went to the dr, she didnt say too much about my taper, not really very happy with her approach to other issues I brought up, so am meeting with a new dr in a couple weeks.

 

My anxiety is pretty high the past couple of days, feeling pretty doom and gloom. Sigh. Will the anxiety go away after I'm off this stuff? I know ive dealt with worse anxiety than this before, but it still sucks. I'm just feeling defeated and concerned for when I'm actually off this stuff. It must get better? 

 

I will keep tapering 10%, curious though, at what dose should I jump completely off? It would be nice to have a rough idea of how much more I have to go.

[Prestorb]

It'll probably take some time to get back to normal even after you are off completely. At least that has been my experience. I have been off over a year now and have really started feeling like myself in the last 2-3 months I would say. It just takes a long TIME for everything to work its way completely out of your system. Hang in there, it will get better eventually, I promise! :-)

[jen84]

Thanks for your reply Prestorb. I'm glad your anxieties are starting to ease for you. What an awful feeling it is. 

 

My anxiety has been lingering the past few days. I am getting really tired of it. It's always the same thing I think about when i get anxious, and its wearing me down. I'm trying to book in with a counsellor, and hopefully they can help me get to the bottom of this. There must be more to my anxiety other than wellbutrin? Or am I reading into it too much? Its been the same thoughts eating away at my anxiety for over a year now, and I would just like to accept the thoughts and move on, however i seem to be unable to do this on my own.

[Gridley]

jen,

 

You might find this link on neuroemotions helpful regarding your recurring thought.  And of course anxiety is a very typical withdrawal symptom.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/14397-neuro-emotions/

[jen84]

Wow, Neuro-emotions! Thanks for the link Gridley! That in itself has settled some anxiety, knowing this is something I'm not alone in. I will do some more reading on it. 

 

I didn't realize how negative my posts have been lately. I think for the most part I am doing pretty good, its just those anxious days that sneak up that I am seeking support from SA. 

 

I have an apt on Thursday to talk with a counsellor, it'll be nice to talk with someone in person about my anxieties.

[jen84]

Yesterday was a better day, but I'm back in the dumps again today.

 

How do you keep this from affecting relationships? What if my relationship is my anxiety? How do I find control over my thoughts so I'm not over analysing and putting anxiety where it doesn't really need to be?

 

I saw a counsellor today, its a good start to tackling this. She manages anxiety through CBT, so it'll be nice to get some tools to help cope. I'm just wondering though, at what point does one just accept that maybe they do actually suffer from depression and anxiety, and might be better ON medication? Im just getting really tired of it all. 

[jen84]

I'm almost 4.5 weeks into this decrease. I am still feeling anxiety, and am kind of nervous to make another decrease. I have been seeing a counsellor who is helping me through my thoughts, but I am still experiencing anxiety. I'm not really sure if its windows and waves, it comes and goes but seems to be here more than it is not here. I am almost at my breaking point, and am seriously contemplating going on a new medication. Ill be seeing my dr in a few days and asking about options with him. This is a terrible feeling and I dont know if its worth suffering through anymore. I dont know what else I can do to relieve this.

[jen84]

My counsellor and I are making good progress on my anxiety. I am learning CBT and slowly but surely, I am hopeful. I have been seeing her for a month and a bit now, and she suspects I am clinically depressed. This is not an absurd observation, and kind of actually makes sense. She has suggested I add vitamin b12 and GABA, and to make sure I am physically exerting myself everyday for a half hour.

 

I have also had some blood tests done, and my iron is very low. I have started taking iron tablets at night. I'm wondering if this has been one of the reasons for my anxiety? 

 

Overall, I am feeling optimistic. Im not sure if im ready to make a decrease, as I am terrified of how it may go. When I get more comfortable with the CBT, I will reassess.

[jen84]

I am having a really tough time. The past couple of days have been full of depression and anxiety. I am getting intensive exercise regularly, I am taking vit. B12, I am practising the CBT, and I haven't done a decrease in almost two months, but its still not enough. I dont know what else to do, other than go back on some sort of medication. I am tired of feeling this way. I had a breakdown in front of co-workers today, and to me, that is not a good sign of how I'm doing. Any thoughts anyone? If I were to go back on a med, what would be the best option?

[Gridley]

Intensive exercise can have a negative effect on those in withdrawal.  I suggest you try a mild walk instead, preferably in nature.  Also, B12 can be activating (anxiety producing) for those in WD.  

[jen84]

Hi Gridley, thanks for replying. I work outdoors in nature, i also spend most of my spare time outdoors. I am outdoors at least 6 out of 7 days. At work I do mostly mild to moderate exercise, hiking around the forest. Usually I get relief after intensive exercise, and it is also helping with my self esteem. I think the exercise is benefitting me more than harming me. As for the vitamin B12, of which I've been on for almost 2 weeks now, maybe it's not helping, but I'm also thinking there's more to it than b12. I've been having a tough time for 2 months now, and the counsellor is helping, but I'm really not sure if I should be off meds. She is certain I have clinical depression, and I kind of agree with her. We are working on how to manage anxiety, I am just having a tough time and right now, and meds seem like a very option. I don't know what to do.

[Altostrata]

Hi, jen.

 

Can you give more detail about these feelings? How often do they overcome you? Are there any thoughts or images attached? Is this the way you felt before you went on Effexor? (When you have a chance, please add the drug names to the events in your signature. Please include the significant Effexor events, including when you went off in January 2016.)

 

Are your symptoms worse at some times of day than others? What is your daily symptom pattern? Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

Looking back, I see intermittent descriptions of habits of mind that might be contributing to your current symptom pattern, such as worrying over work, relationship anxiety, self-doubt, etc. Does this sound familiar? Is it what you're feeling now?

 

You have also tapered a little haphazardly, but that does not seem to be the source of your emotional symptom pattern.

 

On 9/7/2015 at 7:38 PM, jen84 said:

So far, things have been going fairly well, no major issues. Today is a rough day, well, I guess this weekend has been rough. Is it part of withdrawal if I question everything about myself and my life? I feel so lonely, and insecure. I suppose I have always felt this way, but this withdrawal just makes it worse. I was told recently that I come across as unstable... unstable in my life. WTF does that mean? I am trying so hard to live a normal life, but now I am questioning everything. Am I one of those people that never figures out their sh*t? How am I supposed to find a significant other if I am unstable? No, I am not 100% happy with my life... I know I need to get out and do more stuff and meet more people, but sometimes the thought of meeting new people scares me. 

 

These thoughts keep coming and going... Being still and inactive is my biggest enemy, but I have to figure out a way to turn my brain off when I am still, especially while going through withdrawal. 

 

Overall, I think I am doing fairly good, hopefully this is just a bump in the road. 

 

On 3/2/2017 at 6:54 PM, jen84 said:

Signature updated, thanks for the reminder ChessieCat

 

During the past few weeks, I did miss a dose or two at night (by accident). When I missed those doses, I did not feel any kind of withdrawal symptom... no brain zaps, nothing. That's why I am wondering if I can do the next decrease by skipping my evening dose? 

 

I have read through the liquid taper page, super confusing. It will definitely take me some time to wrap my head around it.

 

On 7/6/2017 at 5:59 PM, jen84 said:

I wonder if I dropped too much too fast. My anxiety has been pretty high lately, and its showing on my face. I think I'm getting stressed induced exzema. After I've had a bout of anxiety, my face will get really itchy and swollen, then it gets super dry and sometimes flakes chunks of skin. It feels awful, and I don't know how to relieve it, other than not getting anxiety. My anxiety is triggered by the silliest things, sometimes I don't even know what has triggered it. I get really antsy and even a bit snappy towards my coworkers. 

 

Should I up my dose again? Or wait this out? I'm willing to wait it out at this dose if there's light at the end of the tunnel.

 

On 7/6/2017 at 7:20 PM, KarenB said:

What I'm seeing is four fairly big dose reductions since the end of last year.  Waiting it out might take a long time - but it's very hard to know.  Up-dosing a small amount, say to half way between your last dose and this one (25mg) might be an idea.  I'm sorry I can't offer anything more concrete than that.  

 

If you do up-dose, I'd recommend a long hold after that to let things really stabilise, and from then onwards to make only 10% or less reductions.   

 

On 10/27/2017 at 7:52 AM, jen84 said:

I'm feeling not too bad after the decrease. My anxiety is lingering around a bit, but it seems to be the norm and it is getting better every day.

 

I have a question about anxiety, and I'm hoping someone out there is going through something similar and can offer some insight. It seems like my anxiety needs something to anchor itself onto. Like, if something isn't going right at work, ill have anxiety over work. But as soon as work gets back to normal, my anxiety will latch onto something else... And that something else seems to be my relationship with my partner. I start thinking that were not a good match and that I don't love him, but in fact I am very much in love. We've recently moved in together, and the thought of being on my own again if things Dont work out is terrifying. Hes very supportive of what I'm going through and I comunicate all of this to him. I'm just wondering if this is normal to have anxiety that latches on to the nearest insecurity or hiccup. Of course once I start thinking about one thing, it just snowballs and I end up having mini panic attacks. When I'm not havinf anxiety, I know that I want to be in this relationship, its just tough to weed out the anxious thoughts and doubts.

 

I would like to start reading about cbt (cognitive behavioural therapy), I do have experience with it but that was many years ago. Does anyone have a book they'd recommend to get me started?

 

On 12/1/2017 at 12:48 PM, jen84 said:

I made a decrease from 12 to 11, about a week ago.  I had a few really rough days,  but seem to be on the mend.  

 

Im still having relationship anxiety,  and I really don't know why it's happening, and  I don't know where it's coming from,  and it sucks.  I don't know anymore if the relationship anxiety is triggered by the `hellbutrin',  or something else? 

 

[jen84]

Hi Alto, thanks for your reply. 

 

Ive been on AD's since high school, I was put on them for what was thought to be depression. Years later, I started wondering if it was actually low self esteem, and that was the reason for my 'depression'. Fast forward to now, I am definitely struggling with relationship anxiety, self doubt and work issues, among other things. You nailed it there. My relationship is my number 1 trigger right now. I am currently working with my counsellor to figure this out. Over the past few months with her, she is almost certain that I am in a relationship that I want to be in, but my anxiety and depression get in the way and I question my feelings. 

 

In my early 20s I started using drugs and alcohol as a way to escape, and fit in. In those years I was admitted to hospital several times for self harming. A couple years after that, in my mid 20s I quit drugs and alcohol altogether, and its been almost 9 years of being clean and sober. In those 9 years I have tried really hard to find myself, but its a lot of work to find self love when there wasnt a lot to work with.

 

As for work, its taken me a long time to feel like I'm finally at a good stage in my career. I have worked my butt off to get to where I'm at, I still have feelings of not fitting in, but for the most part I am happy with where it is taking me. I have always felt like I am not acheiving what I want to achieve, but I am slowly getting there with work.

 

My relationship? I dont really want to put too much info on display. He is very caring and supportive and right now, he is my rock. I am working on trying to figure out why I'm feeling this way, but its looking like its myself trying to protect myself... If that makes sense? We have analyzed the relationship and it seems to come back to me and my low esteem.

 

I used to have my signature fully updated with drugs and dates, but it was only letting me put in 12 lines, so I started deleting the old content. 

 

How often do I get these feelings? Yesterday and today have been the worst I have felt in a long time. It was more depressive than anxious. It would come in waves of feeling ok then back to feeling terrible. It seems to be within a couple of hours that my mood changes. I dont know what happened today, it was not a panic attack, or not one that I'm used to, it was more of a depressive state. These feelings are new, I'm used to anxiety, but today was a whole new ball game.

 

I can start recording my moods, I do keep a journal, but I dont write as often as I should.  

 

I hope ive included enough info.

[jen84]

So far, this morning I am feeling better, and on my way to work soon. 

 

Yesterday around 4pm to when I went to bed I was starting to feel better, the waves of depression had subsided. I get that my depressive states come in waves throughout the day, I just don't really know how to manage those properly yet. 

[jen84]

On 9/4/2018 at 8:16 AM, Gridley said:

Intensive exercise can have a negative effect on those in withdrawal.  I suggest you try a mild walk instead, preferably in nature.  Also, B12 can be activating (anxiety producing) for those in WD.  

Hi Gridley,  

 

You were right about the vitamin B12, I quit taking it a few nights ago, and I felt better by morning (and by better,  I mean not crying or in a depressive state, still the same amount of anxiety).  I am taking a break from the iron supplement as well,  as I am not sure if that is triggering me either. I am going to see my counsellor tonight, and am going to ask about other meds. I know she is trying to recommend escitalopram, but from what I've been reading it may not be the best choice.  I am hesitant going back on meds, but there must be an easier way than this.  I don't want to take meds and just cover up underlying issues, I am working on understanding myself and how to better manage, but I am very close to calling it quits on trying to be med free. 

[Gridley]

Hi, Jen,

 

I'm glad you had good results stopping the B12.

 

Of course, you are the person who has to decide whether or not to go back on the drugs.  I have one alternative I'd like to suggest, and that is a long hold at your current dose of your current drug in order to let your system stabilize.  Many times, after a long hold,  withdrawal symptoms can diminish to much more tolerable levels.  According to your signature, you have been holding at 12.4mg for a little less than three months.  That is not long in terms of holding.  It is not uncommon for members to hold for six months or longer to regain homeostasis. That way, you don't have to make the decision to go back on meds.  

 

Switching to another drug carries with it its own risks--of adverse reactions, of destabilization, of the drug not working and you then having to be switched to another drug and yet another on the old AD merry-go-round.  Reading through your posts, you seem to be doing pretty well, all things considered.  You nervous system craves stability; a hold would provide that, but switching to another med would provide the opposite.  As we say here at SA, "Keep it simple.  Keep it slow.  Keep it stable."

The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

Also, have you tried magnesium and omega 3 fish oil?  Many people find these calming to the nervous system.  You can dissolve the magnesium in water and sip it throughout the day.

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Please research all supplements first and only add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Gridley

[jen84]

Hi Gridley, thanks for the post. I've already gone 4 years getting off this stuff, I can wait a couple more months to wait this out. I will hold at my current dose of 10.6mg. I've updated my sig.

 

I picked up some magnesium yesterday, and took it last night and this morning. Its 50mg tablets and I'm only taking half at a time. 

 

I was taking iron supplements but am worried that those were triggering me as well. Is there a certain kind of iron I should be taking?

[Gridley]

I don't know much about iron.  I would say if in doubt, don't take them.  Getting your iron from food is safer.  

[SkyBlue]

Just want to chime in that I totally agree w Gridley-- best to stay away from iron supplements and get it from food. Iron is poorly absorbed from supplements--as low as ten percent.  Of course if you've been tested by your dr, follow their recommendations.