degen12: Starting SSRIs as a child, and The SSRI Enigma

[Blondiee1915]

I actually did go to a few meet ups (this was back before WD hit me) and was scarred too, but I did end up with a few friends that I still talk to.  We do things like once a month together still - book cub reading and brunch.  I am with your mom on this.  If you are feeling okay you should def join and go see what it is all about.  Everyone worries that they are weird and awkward even not in WD,  and who knows you might end up having fun ! Yes loneliness is toxic for sure .  The more I am alone the more I get in my head with everything and that behavior translates into symptoms for sure.  

 

[degen12]

1 hour ago, Blondiee1915 said:

I actually did go to a few meet ups (this was back before WD hit me) and was scarred too, but I did end up with a few friends that I still talk to.  We do things like once a month together still - book cub reading and brunch.  I am with your mom on this.  If you are feeling okay you should def join and go see what it is all about.  Everyone worries that they are weird and awkward even not in WD,  and who knows you might end up having fun ! Yes loneliness is toxic for sure .  The more I am alone the more I get in my head with everything and that behavior translates into symptoms for sure.  

 

 

Thanks for the motivation.

[degen12]

Maybe some minor sweating in the evening before my 2nd Lyrica dose of the day, but otherwise no problems with the cut over the past few days. No increase in pain. This cut is a go and is locked in now.

[degen12]

Not having any problems from my Lyrica taper. Locked in at 100 mg and anticipating my next cut later in March.

 

Bought a 10 mL oral syringe and made the solution in an unused pee bottle that they give you for urine tests. Just to get used to it.

[degen12]

I am thrilled to report that over the past month, I have experienced a dramatic and so far sustained remission in my chronic depression. Either it's one big coincidence or that high-dose Lyrica was seriously effecting my mood.

[degen12]

Some large changes over the last couple of months:

 

March, April / 2018: Lyrica stopped, Diazepam 20 mg -> 10 mg, Bystolic 5 mg -> Propranolol 30 mg

 

Since I have to take a beta-blocker anyway, and akathisia was becoming a problem, I switched my Bystolic to propranolol, the beta-blocker which has controlled my akathisia the best. Thus far I have tried Bystolic, propranolol, and metoprolol.

 

When I was tapering Lyrica I went from 100 mg to 50 mg, stayed there for a week, then stopped. Withdrawal was surprisingly easy and consisted mostly of hot / cold flashes, increased pain, and a few other physical symptoms.

 

With diazepam I went from 20 mg to 15 mg, stayed there for 2 weeks, then went from 15 mg to 10 mg, where I have been for a month. This was obviously way too large of a cut and I knew that going in. In the end I'm ok except for some akathisia.

 

As you can see my psychotropic load is much less.

 

[bheb]

I'm glad I came across your thread degen. As you said yourself, it really shows a lot of progress. 

 

I've got akathisia and relate to a lot of what you've said about it. Especially about how it feels from long term SSRI use (and in my case many up and down dose changes) being distinct from the acute episodes. I've experienced both and also find them to be different for whatever reason. 

 

I hope you're still doing well and improving!

[degen12]

On 4/30/2018 at 12:57 AM, bheb said:

I'm glad I came across your thread degen. As you said yourself, it really shows a lot of progress. 

  

I've got akathisia and relate to a lot of what you've said about it. Especially about how it feels from long term SSRI use (and in my case many up and down dose changes) being distinct from the acute episodes. I've experienced both and also find them to be different for whatever reason. 

  

I hope you're still doing well and improving!

 

Thanks for your post. It really means a lot to me. I'm both glad and sad you can relate.

 

 

[degen12]

Very bored of life. Wanted to fall in love and have a family (I get that that’s not for everyone, but I always wanted to have a family) but I no longer feel like I have any control over my future. Very bitter feelings. 

 

Just sick and tired of pushing forward everyday.

[Gridley]

Anhedonia (no pleasure in anything due to WD) is a common WD symptom.  I have it.  It will pass, like all these symptoms.  Just keep pushing forward.

[degen12]

Switched propranolol for clonidine in an attempt to tame the nonstop akathisia I have these days. It seems to be more effective.

[degen12]

Big relapse into polydrugville. No point in updating anymore

[SquirrellyGirl]

I'm so sorry!  What happened? Was it after more changes or did withdrawal finally catch up?  We're with you one way or the other.

 

Hugs, 

SG

[Carmie]

5 hours ago, degen12 said:

Big relapse into polydrugville. No point in updating anymore

 

Hi Degen, 

 

Im so sorry you’re not doing so great. You said you changed meds to tame the akathisia n it’s been helping. I get akathisia too when in bad waves, though I don’t have it at the moment. 

 

Maybe withdrawals from changing meds has kicked in?

 

This certainly is the hardest journey any one of us will ever take but we will all eventually stabilise. It may take a long time but we will get there in the end. 

 

You said too you were bored with life a little while ago, as Gridley said anhedonia is very common in withdrawals. I get it too. Even when I feel really numb though n don’t find joy in anything I still keep doing things. It’s a good distraction.

 

Take care💚

[degen12]

On 7/26/2018 at 12:03 AM, SquirrellyGirl said:

I'm so sorry!  What happened? Was it after more changes or did withdrawal finally catch up?  We're with you one way or the other.

 

Hugs, 

SG

 

Hi SG. Thanks for posting.

 

I started and stopped several drugs as well as made dose changes to existing drugs. I stopped Lyrica, started and stopped olanzapine, buspirone, propranolol and clonidine. I changed dose of mirtazapine, Cipralex, and diazepam, all multiple times. This occurred throughout 2018 and most of it is not documented in this thread or my signature.

 

I will write a post on what happened. The problem is I'm still trying to figure it out for myself.

 

The good news is that I'm back in control (I hope), I'm feeling more lucid and less spellbound, and I have motivation once again to push forward with drug reduction.

 

Compare from when I started recording to now:

 

April / 2016: Cipralex 10 mg, Mirtazapine 30 mg, Lyrica 600 mg, Diazepam 20 mg, Bystolic 5 mg

Currently: Cipralex 15 mg, Mirtazapine 7.5 mg, Diazepam 15 mg

 

I think this is my lowest drug load in many, many years. Just trying to put a positive spin on things I guess.

 

[degen12]

On 7/26/2018 at 12:30 AM, Carmie said:

 

Hi Degen, 

 

Im so sorry you’re not doing so great. You said you changed meds to tame the akathisia n it’s been helping. I get akathisia too when in bad waves, though I don’t have it at the moment. 

 

Maybe withdrawals from changing meds has kicked in?

 

This certainly is the hardest journey any one of us will ever take but we will all eventually stabilise. It may take a long time but we will get there in the end.  

  

You said too you were bored with life a little while ago, as Gridley said anhedonia is very common in withdrawals. I get it too. Even when I feel really numb though n don’t find joy in anything I still keep doing things. It’s a good distraction.

 

Take care💚

 

Hi Carmie,

 

Thank you so much for chiming in. It really encouraged me to post here again.

 

I have very bad akathisia and I am unable to do basic things like sit while eating a meal. It is extremely distressing. I also developed tardive dyskinesia with tongue protrusion and flicking as well as dystonic movements in my head and neck. The movement disorders end of withdrawal and drug instability has been the hardest for me personally. I've had chronic akathisia for ages, from the Cipralex, even when the dose was stable, but It really is a mess right now. Reached a level I didn't even know was possible.

 

Thanks for the encouragement!

[degen12]

My signature didn't really make sense anymore because of what went on this year so I purged most of it. We are starting fresh! The only comparison I'm interested in now is between when I started tapering and today. Having said that, I will update it with any changes and hopefully the timeline will make sense.

 

To be honest, I was ashamed to post here given how far I fell off the wagon. I didn't want to show that I had failed in my taper, so started not mentioning changes.

[Carmie]

On 8/30/2018 at 12:36 PM, degen12 said:

 

Hi Carmie,

 

Thank you so much for chiming in. It really encouraged me to post here again.

 

I have very bad akathisia and I am unable to do basic things like sit while eating a meal. It is extremely distressing. I also developed tardive dyskinesia with tongue protrusion and flicking as well as dystonic movements in my head and neck. The movement disorders end of withdrawal and drug instability has been the hardest for me personally. I've had chronic akathisia for ages, from the Cipralex, even when the dose was stable, but It really is a mess right now. Reached a level I didn't even know was possible.

 

Thanks for the encouragement!

 

Hi Degen, 

 

How are u faring today? Please keep posting here. It helps others n when we all finally heal we can look back on our journey n go: “Wow! Did we really go through all of that. We made it! Yay!”

 

Im so sorry u have bad akathisia, I get it here n there too. I had it last night as I changed from tablets to capsules four days ago. I couldn’t sit still but it didn’t last too long. I’m sorry you’re dealing with that all the time. It really is the worst symptom ever!!! My heart goes out to you. 

 

How are coping today?

 

Sending hugs🤗🤗

 

[bheb]

Hey degen — I definitely feel the same anxiety about posting if I’ve felt I’ve messed something up. But don’t be ashamed...writing down what pushed you to make certain decisions may help keep things in perspective for the future.

 

Was there a particular symptom/life event that triggered a need to change your meds? I’m so sorry you’re dealing with akathisia again; it’s brutal, but you’ve survived it before and I’m sure you will again once you get things sorted out. 

 

I hope you do fall in love and have a family..don’t write it off. Probably hypocritical of me, as I tend to deny myself those daydreams and hopes as well.

[degen12]

Sorry I haven't responded I have been terribly depressed. Even at 15 mg Cipralex I feel incredibly blunted compared to my old standard of 10 mg. It's pretty nuts how worthless life feels right now. Derealization/Depersonalization is back big time too. I think it's because Cipralex makes me act in a way that is not me. When I don't recognize who I am I feel derealized.That's something I noticed from the increased dose as well. I feel like Cipralex stole my personality and left some other person in my place. To try and reclaim myself I will probably decrease back to 10 mg. It was that way in late June so not too long ago I hope.

[degen12]

On 9/1/2018 at 11:03 PM, bheb said:

Hey degen — I definitely feel the same anxiety about posting if I’ve felt I’ve messed something up. But don’t be ashamed...writing down what pushed you to make certain decisions may help keep things in perspective for the future.

 

Was there a particular symptom/life event that triggered a need to change your meds? I’m so sorry you’re dealing with akathisia again; it’s brutal, but you’ve survived it before and I’m sure you will again once you get things sorted out. 

 

I hope you do fall in love and have a family..don’t write it off. Probably hypocritical of me, as I tend to deny myself those daydreams and hopes as well.

 

There definitely are some major life reasons why I'm feeling the way I am. One really stands out to me but it's really hard to talk about it. The best I can do is say that I found out that something really important and irreplaceable was taken away from me. Now I am trying to come to terms with it. Thanfully akathisia has calmed down a bit now that I'm settling into 15 mg of Cipralex. Two weeks now.

 

I will remember this for the future. For me the lesson is that even if drug increases or trials seem to help in the begging, they ultimately never work out for whatever reason. I think psychiatric drugs are just too blunt and remove too much of the human experience, so much so that it's almost never worth being on any psych drug long-term. My dreams of a better life through chemistry are finally put to rest. I think it's really hard to improve on the systems of the human body which have been fine tuning themselves for so long.

 

Really appreciate your post.

[degen12]

On 9/1/2018 at 7:15 PM, Carmie said:

 

Hi Degen, 

 

How are u faring today? Please keep posting here. It helps others n when we all finally heal we can look back on our journey n go: “Wow! Did we really go through all of that. We made it! Yay!”

 

Im so sorry u have bad akathisia, I get it here n there too. I had it last night as I changed from tablets to capsules four days ago. I couldn’t sit still but it didn’t last too long. I’m sorry you’re dealing with that all the time. It really is the worst symptom ever!!! My heart goes out to you. 

 

How are coping today?

 

Sending hugs🤗🤗

 

 

Hey Carmie!

 

I'm doing much better with the akathisia. I still have it and it's still bothersome but it's more manageable now. Furthermore I think there are more gains to be made in this area by decreasing my SSRI dose further.

 

Now I have to work on getting my mood out of the gutter. Basically right now I haven't left the house in forever and my sleep schedule is upside down, and part of me doesn''t even want to be awake.

 

I'm finding I'm having real trouble mentally getting out of this depressive state. Usually I am more resilient than this but this depression just keeps dragging on and on without end in sight.

[Carmie]

3 hours ago, degen12 said:

 

Hey Carmie!

 

I'm doing much better with the akathisia. I still have it and it's still bothersome but it's more manageable now. Furthermore I think there are more gains to be made in this area by decreasing my SSRI dose further.

 

Now I have to work on getting my mood out of the gutter. Basically right now I haven't left the house in forever and my sleep schedule is upside down, and part of me doesn''t even want to be awake.

 

I'm finding I'm having real trouble mentally getting out of this depressive state. Usually I am more resilient than this but this depression just keeps dragging on and on without end in sight.

 

Hi there degen, 

 

I’m so glad your akathisia is more manageable now. There are certainly degrees of it, aren’t there? It goes from The bearable kind that you can cope with by just continuing to distract yourself to the kind where you feel your body is going to explode n you feel electrocuted to the kind where you can’t sit still. 

 

I’m sorry you’ve been stuck at home. You said you had a month’s reprieve from your depression this year. These meds make us feel anhedonic, like numb to thing. It sounds like you have anhedonia if you can’t find joy in anything and feel you want to lock yourself away.

 

I get it too, but I get some reprieve from it here and there. Once we are finally off these meds that feeling will start to subside and we will feel a little more like ourselves. 

 

Have you tried journaling and getting all those ruminating thoughts out thoughts out of your mind. I’ve started doing that again in the last couple of weeks and have found it very beneficial.

 

Also Claire Weekes tells us not to fight our symptoms but to float with them. When you fight something it just becomes stronger.

 

Take care, sending hugs🤗

[degen12]

First day of 10 mg Cipralex. If I experience any problems I'll increase to 12.5 mg. I'm expecting it to go ok given how the curve of serotonin transporter occupancy really flattens out above 10 mg. As it drops dramatically below 10 mg I will institute a slow taper when going below that dose.

[degen12]

I wussed out and decided to taper to 12.5 mg instead to be on the safe side. Today is my third day. So far so good.

[Carmie]

On 9/14/2018 at 4:42 AM, degen12 said:

First day of 10 mg Cipralex. If I experience any problems I'll increase to 12.5 mg. I'm expecting it to go ok given how the curve of serotonin transporter occupancy really flattens out above 10 mg. As it drops dramatically below 10 mg I will institute a slow taper when going below that dose.

 

On 9/17/2018 at 9:53 AM, degen12 said:

I wussed out and decided to taper to 12.5 mg instead to be on the safe side. Today is my third day. So far so good.

 

Hi degen, 

 

Please be careful with you drops. Ten percent of 15mg is 1.5mg. You look like you’re going down too quickly. Please go slower with your next taper. 

 

Wishing you all all the best with your tapering 💚

[degen12]

24 minutes ago, Carmie said:

 

 

Hi degen, 

 

Please be careful with you drops. Ten percent of 15mg is 1.5mg. You look like you’re going down too quickly. Please go slower with your next taper. 

 

Wishing you all all the best with your tapering 💚

 

I totally respect this site's general principle that 10% is a good upper limit, but that will never be my method of tapering. I take every taper I do in the context of my personal situation and other considerations such as the drug itself as well as how long I've taken the higher dose of the drug. In this case I only spent two and a half months at 15 mg so that it a huge mitigating factor which allows me to taper more quickly. The severity of my akathisia was also a major factor in my determination to taper more quickly. I decided that it was worth it endure to some additional withdrawal effects in exchange for faster relief of akathisia (and I can say I have experienced some relief with ths cut) Also, the way Cipralex works is that it almost saturates the serotonin transporter at as low as 10 mg, and doses above 10 mg only add slightly to that effect.

 

Essentially, my view about CIpralex is that the majority of the withdrawal work is done below 10 mg. Below 10 mg the serotonin transporter occupancy drops like a rock, and so it's very important to follow slow taper practices below that point.

 

So no disrept towards the guidelines of this site. I think they are right 90% of the time for most individuals tapering most drugs, but I do believe there are certain circumstances when a faster taper can be acceptable. 

 

 

[Carmie]

1 minute ago, degen12 said:

 

I totally respect this site's general principle that 10% is a good upper limit, but that will never be my method of tapering. I take every taper I do in the context of my personal situation and other considerations such as the drug itself as well as how long I've taken the higher dose of the drug. In this case I only spent two and a half months at 15 mg so that it a huge mitigating factor which allows me to taper more quickly. The severity of my akathisia was also a major factor in my determination to taper more quickly. I decided that it was worth it endure to some additional withdrawal effects in exchange for faster relief of akathisia (and I can say I have experienced some relief with ths cut) Also, the way Cipralex works is that it almost saturates the serotonin transporter at as low as 10 mg, and doses above 10 mg only add slightly to that effect.

 

Essentially, my view about CIpralex is that the majority of the withdrawal work is done below 10 mg. Below 10 mg the serotonin transporter occupancy drops like a rock, and so it's very important to follow slow taper practices below that point.

 

So no disrept towards the guidelines of this site. I think they are right 90% of the time for most individuals tapering most drugs, but I do believe there are certain circumstances when a faster taper can be acceptable.

 

 

Hi again Degen, 

 

Glad to hear that the akathisia has lessened. That’s good news. Glad to hear too that you will be tapering slower below 10mg and that your taper has been going well so far. 

 

I always worry when people taper too quickly as I know what I went through but you sound like you’re doing okay . I hate seeing people suffer unnecessarily. I’m really glad you’re doing well. 

 

Take care💚

 

 

[degen12]

I'm really blessed to have a friend like this.

Quote

 

ME: But maybe I shouldn’t underestimate my habits of resorting to drugs though

 

FRIEND: you can if its something you need like b12

 

but like the saying goes, no one has a deficiency of <fill-in-the-blank-with-medication>

 

so what i find helpful (not foolproof but helpful) when i've made a decision about something but concerned that future me will **** it up in a moment of dumbness or weakness

 

is to envision being in that future scenario and then pausing before i do the stupid thing, and remembering that when i was not in this moment of weakness or temptation or whatever, and when i was exercising my best judgment, i firmly decided it was in my best interests not to do that thing

 

so just remembering that smarter and wiser you, after careful consideration, came down firmly on one side of an issue, it can really help you trust in that decision later on

 

 

@AltostrataI thought you might find that interesting. For me it feels like medication spellbinding but the spellbinding persists even when you are off the drug. Also I'm pretty sure my friend gave the ultimate counter to any argument about drugging myself in the future with this. I thought maybe it might help some other person.

 

Quote

 

FRIEND: so for you you might have thoughts like, well what if i just tried this different dose or drug or combination, maybe that would do the trick for me, and i could really use a boost right now

 

ME: Yes pretty accurate description of my thought process

 

FRIEND: and you just to remember that this line of thinking, not just by you but by your caretakers, has probably messed up your life more than anything else

 

 

 

[degen12]

1 hour ago, Carmie said:

 

Hi again Degen, 

 

Glad to hear that the akathisia has lessened. That’s good news. Glad to hear too that you will be tapering slower below 10mg and that your taper has been going well so far. 

 

I always worry when people taper too quickly as I know what I went through but you sound like you’re doing okay . I hate seeing people suffer unnecessarily. I’m really glad you’re doing well. 

 

Take care💚

 

 

 

I really appreciate your concern, I think it's touching. I swear I'm gonna do this right and not screw it up. I'm completely committed to a long term process to get off of ALL of my pharma drugs and there isn't anything that's going to stand in my way anymore. Or at least that's what my very optimistic self feels today . I don't know if I was in it 100% before, it's hard to say. It's hard to re-imagine how I used to feel but I think I'm my most mature and best self yet, and I think that's going to give me a major boost in the current thrust to end my drug dependency. I'm not the same guy I was a couple years back. I have more knowledge and experience. I've seen how the cycle works. I've made most of the mistakes and I don't intend to make them again.

[Altostrata]

It's a habit of thinking, degen. You can think differently.

 

We recommend tapering slowly because we often can't fix it if you trigger withdrawal symptoms. It's like Humpty Dumpty. But if you are willing to deal with them, we respect your decision. Also, if you are experiencing serious adverse effects, such as akathisia, you may wish to take the risk.

[degen12]

Currently just taking Cipralex 10 mg and diazepam 15 mg. Stopping mirtazapine wasn't nearly as hard as I thought it would be.

 

A year and a half ago I was taking

April / 2016: Cipralex 10 mg, Mirtazapine 30 mg, Lyrica 600 mg, Diazepam 20 mg, Bystolic 5 mg

[degen12]

I have to say the psych drug withdrawals have been ace. Life is so much more intense. And someone waltzed into it at exactly the same time. What are the chances. One of those times I feel truly blessed.

[degen12]

I just want to anyone out there who's reading this and maybe relates to my story a bit.. there is hope.

[degen12]

The escitalopram is messing with my emotions at a bad time. Can't wait to be rid of this poison

[degen12]

Definitely feeling a wider array of emotions. Not sure what to make of it all. It's going to be difficult to reintegrate everything in to my routine. I don't think it can be just attributed to withdrawal either. I have to relearn how to do life a bit. It's definitely doable.