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Britt

Britt: What to do?

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Britt   
Britt

Hi am new here i was on paxil 15 + years i tapered 10% every 3 weeks i am now on zero . I think i had poop out and was on 20 mg i was taken each pil every other day and got depression and started to taper that is almost 2 years ago and de depression never left and dont know what to do anymore ? Should i start taking antidepressants again ?

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dalsaan   
dalsaan

Hi Britt

 

I moved your topic to the introductions section. This is where we start a personal thread (1 per member) to tell our story, ask questions etc. you can come back her to check responses to your post and add new posts

 

I'm a little unclear of what happened when. Could you fill out your signature for us with dates. Ie when did you finish your taper? Did you alternate doses the whole way through, have you had any other adverse symptoms other than depression

 

Here is the detail on how to add your signature http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

We also have a symptoms forum which you might find useful

 

Dalsaan

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Britt   
Britt

No i did not alternate the whole way i alternate till i got the depression and then i found out that that was wrong but i was doing it for 1,5 year ! Ian on zero for a week now thanks for the reply

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Petunia   
Petunia

Hi Britt,

 

Are you having any other symptoms besides depression?  What was the last dose of paxil you took before stopping completely?  Are you feeling worse since stopping completely, or the same as when you were tapering?

 

Petu.

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Britt   
Britt

Maybe a little worse but but almost the same while tapering ! I think in have to go back on paxil depression for almost two year is terrible

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Britt   
Britt

So many people and nobody knows ???? ?

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bubble   
bubble

Hello Britt,

 

we are trying to gather enough information from you to be able to understand your tapering situation and understand what went wrong.

 

Based on the information you provided so far, I would say that alternating doses for 1.5 year destabilised your nervous system severely. The only thing we find helpful in such situations is to stop taper and wait for the symptoms to disappear thus giving our brain enough time to adjust to living without the drug that has become a part of its structure through 10 years of use.

 

No wonder you felt bad throught your taper. 10 % decrease every 4 weeks is not the only rule. The main rule is listening to your brain which is speaking to you through your symptoms. If the symptoms are too intense and they don't go away, it means that this tapering plan is too fast for you.

 

The reasons other moderators asked you about your symptoms now and the last dose you were on before discontinuing is to see whether reinstating a small amount of drug would help you cushion the withdrawal symptoms. We often see those intensifying in weeks and even months after discontinuation that was too quick for our brain to adjust.

 

I am glad you have found this forum so that you can monitor how your situation develops and take necessary steps if needed. 

 

I would suggest reading this thread: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3079-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-stop-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

Based on what you shared with us so far I would say that reinstating would be advisable.  We can only help you if you give us enough information and reply as best as you can to the questions moderators ask. What was the last dose you were taking before you quit? This information is important to be able to suggest a dose that has the best chance to work in your situation.

 

Best,

Bubble 

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Rhiannon   
Rhiannon

In addition to considering reinstatement (we need more information before I can give specific advice about that) I would like to recommend a couple of other things.

 

First, if you have not yet, please read Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker. I think it has been translated into many languages so you will have the choice to read it in your first language if you prefer. 

 

Second, it is winter time, getting very dark, and it is very common for people to have some depression this time of year, which surely is not helping. I would consider trying all of the nondrug solutions for depression before starting a drug. That means therapy lights (10,000 lux); regular exercise; good diet; social stimulation; therapy if possible.

 

Welcome to the forum. I hope you can stay off Paxil. I have been so amazed, now that I have tapered slowly down to low doses, how much those drugs affected everything about me, not in good ways. I lost so much of myself, my soul and spirit, to those ADs. I know how it feels to be desperate for help, I have restarted meds many times in that state of mind, so I do sympathize. Please let me encourage you to try other options. There is so much to gain and so much to lose.

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Britt   
Britt

Thank you all ! I tapered til 0,2 mg liguid paxil that was till last week i have ringing in my ears and bad sleep, anxiety brain fog

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Britt   
Britt

I was on paxil 15 years and begin my taper two years ago with one pill each other day for a year an then i started to taper 10% every 3 weeks from there i was in withdrawel and never felt better ! Now its almost 2 months that i stopped the paxil ! Some days i feel like i am getting a little bit better but the other days i feel like its never going to end its like depression bad sleep racing thoughts cant handle stress ! How long does it take to get better ? How will you know this is you ? Is it strange that after a slow taper that i stil have mental problems ? X

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bubble   
bubble

Hello Britt and welcome to SA,

 

there is just a handful of us volonteers here so sometimes it takes a bit longer to reply. Thank you for filling in your signature. Could you also write what dose of Paxil you were on?

 

Taking a drug every other day is very destabilising. Although the rule of tumb is 10% every 30 days some people have to go slower, even much slower. We all have to learn to listen to our bodies and not rely on extrenal calendars. When symptoms increase, it is a sign that how ever slow we think we are going it's still too fast for our CNS to catch up. 

 

These are just general remarks about tapering. If withdrawal symptoms are bad we sometimes consider reinstating a very small amount of the drug but since your last dose was almost 2 months ago this might not work now.

 

When you say that some days feel a bit better and other days symptoms are still strong that reminds me of windows and waves pattern of recovery. See more about it here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/82-the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-recovery/

 

How long it takes to recover is very individual and it depends on how long we were on drugs, how many we changed, the dose, how fast we were going down... many,  many factors which make it impossible to say how long it will take to get better in each individual case. Although it might take years for symptoms to completely go away, as the time goes by, very gradually, the intensity of symptoms gets lesser.

 

Browse through the symptoms and self care section to get some ideas on natural methods that would help you in this process. We have to learn to be very gentle and patient with ourselves and avoid stress, eat healthy, do regular exercise. Taking magnesium and omega 3 acids also helps so check them out here.

 

Best,

Bubble

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Damienpryan   
Damienpryan

Hi Britt

No body does no for sure.

There are too many confounding factors.

For instance success stories of people who stop taking ssri's often don't end up on websites as the people have simply got on with there lives.

So with out real stats on it it can be very hard to say.

I think it would be fair to say that some people (probably a small minority) will never fully recover from ssri's even though it is a very dispiriting thing to hear. What is worse though is telling some who has tapered down to 0 and still feels **** 2 years later that it is all there fault.

 

Having said that Britt, odds are you'll start feeling of the ssri's we gone in 6 months - 2 years.

 

In the meantime try the following if possible (in this order)

Exercise

Vitamin d

Fish oil

Magnesium

 

 

Cheers

 

Damien

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Britt   
Britt

Thanks damianpryan and bubble ! I am competly off for 6 weeks now and was on a a dose of 20 mg for 15 years I thought that it must be over right now and that i was feeling better when i was on paxil its hard to start on paxil again i am scared to take those pills Again ! I thought maybe its strange that i am not recoverd but maybe it needs time ???? ? X

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Britt   
Britt

Damianpryan you mean you going to geel better in 6months- 2 years after the last pil ?

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Damienpryan   
Damienpryan

Hi Britt,

 

Your ahead of me, I'm still on 2.5 mg so all I know is what I've read of others and inferred from studies.

6 weeks from completely off is very early.

There is a fair chance you will have at least 1 more wave of feeling bad/angry or otherwise rotten.

And feeling better and worse comes in waves.

So recognizing a wave of bad feeling and knowing it will very likely pass is important.

But yes best bet is that 6 months to 2 years after last pill after taper you will have rid 90% or more of the WD effects.

(no one knows for sure and it is very different by person).

 

I think the confusion is that people start tapering off SSRIs thinking they will feel better as the dose is going down.

The reality is that while a dose is dropping you are likely to feel worse not better.

 

Also once recovered from SSRIs It won't fix the original problem is your prone to depression/anxiety etc though.

 

(don't forget: exercise, vitamin D, fish oil, magnesium).

 

cheers

 

Damien

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mammaP   
mammaP

Hi Britt, welcome to SA. I'm sorry that you are suffering from withdrawal, it is miserable!  As Bubble said it is possible

that you could reinstate the paxil, and it may help. The earlier reinstatement takes place the better, you are about 

6 weeks off so it is possible that it will help. Many people here have tapered too fast, myself including but unlike you 

I felt better with each drop and stopped too soon.  If you decide to reinstate I would make it a very small dose of 

1mg which might help the withdrawal a little. A good long hold to stabilise then another slow taper from that tiny dose.

I am tapering effexor and when I reinstated just 5 beads from a capsule it was about 8 months before I was ready to

start cutting again. That was 20 months ago and I am at 2 beads, so you can see how slow I am going, but I am

functioning much better as time goes by. If it helps it is essential to hold for a few months to stabilise after tapering too fast,

When we taper too fast our brains don't have enough time to adjust to the lowered dose. See this topic on reinstating.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3079-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-stop-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

I do realise that it is the last thing you want to do, no-one ever wants to reinstate! If you choose not to there are lots of topics 

the symptoms and self care forum with different things that help people with withdrawal.   There is no typical time frame for recovery

but it is encouraging that you have some better days. Are you feeling any worse that when you were tapering or is it any easier at all,

even slightly?  

 

Damien...We recommend slow tapers that allow the brain to adjust to the lower dose. If you feel withdrawal then it is best to hold

until feeling stable, then allow another 3 weeks at least before another drop. This allows people to function and carry on as normal

while the drug is 'sneaked' away. The only reason for someone to feel withdrawal through the whole taper is tapering too fast. 

Sadly doctors almost always recommend a taper that is far too fast which leads to people suffering withdrawal. 

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Britt   
Britt

Thanks to you all ! When i started to taper i did not know about the 10% rule i wanted to get off of the pils so i took 1 pill each other day for more than a year and from there it went wrong i got a depression and never felt so terrible and started to taper with the 10% every 3 weeks and never felt Better ! I feel a bit better in the evenings !

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brassmonkey   
brassmonkey

Hi Britt--  Sorry to hear that things are going roughly at the minute.  Unfortunately a slow taper is no guarantee of a symptom free recovery.  There is still a lot of healing that ones brain has to do after the drugs have been removed, and that healing will involve all of the symptoms we all know and loathe. The good thing is that the longer the time off the better things will get.  Hope you feel better soon.

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Britt   
Britt

Thanks for the reply brassmonkey ! So its not strange that i stil have low mood dizzy bad sleep cant handle stress and ringing in my ears ?

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Songbird   
Songbird

Your taper of 10% every 3 weeks was about the fastest recommended, so I think your brain still has some catching up to do.  Some people call this "phase 2" of withdrawal.  Reading your signature it says you never stabilised during your taper which suggests it was probably too fast.  The every-other-day dosing may have destabilised you to begin with.  No, it is not you!  It sounds "normal" for "phase 2" of withdrawal.

 

Reinstating is an option but after 15 years on and then a taper to zero and two months off I think there is a high risk of it not working if you go on again.  If it is bearable I would stay off and try to be patient while your brain does its rebalancing work. You could try some relaxation exercises to help your sleep and reduce stress, mindfulness and positive affirmations might help with the psychological symptoms.

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Britt   
Britt

Thankxx songbird ! I hope so i am so scared this is me and i will never function normal again ???? x

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Britt   
Britt

Somebody told me about phase 2 in withdrawel is there someone who can tell me what that is ? X

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mammaP   
mammaP

Britt, I've merged your 3 threads into one to keep your history in one place. It is one thread per person

in the introductions forum, this makes it easier to follow members' progress.  

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Songbird   
Songbird

Somebody told me about phase 2 in withdrawel is there someone who can tell me what that is ? X

 

It just means that even once you've tapered down to zero and the drug is completely out of your system, there is still rebalancing work to do.  This is because of all the changes your body made to adapt to the presence of the drug.  During this rebalancing work symptoms can feel pretty bad.  I think of it like when you do a big tidy up of a room in your house.  At first there is a lot more mess as you pull everything out and sort through it, and it can take a while before it begins to look tidier.  The same kind of thing is happening in your body.  It adjusts some things which throws other things out of balance for a while and so on.  I think during these bad "waves" of symptoms is actually when a lot of the recovery work is taking place.  Even though it feels bad, in the long-term big picture things are progressing in the right direction.  I don't know if I've explained this very well, I hope this makes some kind of sense!

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nz11   
nz11

Britt,

This is a long post  ...I have to agree with Brassmonkey and Songbird.

 

So now I will add my bit.

 

I would like to consider info in post #12

But first I may have missed something but I cant see what your original dose was I will assume it was 20 mg.

1. 15 yrs use

This is extensive timeframe the drug is potent and highly addictive as such after 15 years the brain alterations and dependence is great.

This will require a very slow taper, lets put things in perspective a 10% taper assuming monthly drops from 20 mg will take 30 months ...however with 15 yrs I have seen many struggle even at the 10 % rate and have had to go much slower...look closely at songbirds taper there are many going much slower than 10%. I know of one who after 8 yrs use 2 failed attempts then tapered over 4 yrs at a 6 % per month rate.

2. 1 pill each other day for a yr

 its not your fault, alternating dosages is not the way to go it will cause trauma to the brain as it is thrown into ct then ri continuously. 

 

3. 10% every 3 weeks from there for the next yr?

I'm not sure what you did here ? 10% per 3 weeks would take 22 months not a year and im struggling to see how alternating would shorten it ...so my assumption is you have not tapered at 10% (my guess is you did it by arithmetic progression- a constant drop each 3 weeks and not the needed geometric progression- 10% of previous dose NOT original dose)..your taper is more in the vicinity of 24%...imo.

 

Look either way you are mistaken in thinking you have done a slow taper ... you have done a too fast taper...further complicated by creating chaos in the brain by alternating. 

 

You do not have a mental problem you have a wdl problem. It is not you it is the drug! Make no mistake about it.

 

Having said that I have seen worse tapers so my own opinion now that you are 2 months off is if you can manage it press on drug free. You have given it your best taper shot. I'm singing the same song as Songbird. (2 months drug free is a tricky time a ri may or may not work). Can you cope with this for the next yr or two?

 

Getting off the drug is not synonymous with ending wdl symptoms ...unfortunately they can go on for several years ...esp with a too fast taper... they will recede with time. But you will need to be patient. We all know how scary this can be. But they wont hurt you.

 

The key to survival I found was distraction.

I'm so sorry you are in this terrible place.

Brassmonkey has a great saying AAF...accept acknowledge float.

Britt this is not an easy journey it was the hardest thing I have ever had to do.

Wishing you strength.

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Britt   
Britt

Thankx markca for 1,5 years i was taking 1 pul each other day and was feeling very bad and heard about the 10% every 3 weeks the whole taper i was feeling bad and never stabilised ! I live in constant fog bad memory anxious ringing in ears bad sleep wake up around 4 in the morning cant handle stress and more in the evening it feels better ! But your explanation is very clear thank you !! The people around me cant believe it takes so long to recover and thats also hard ! Sorry for my english i hope you can understand ????

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Britt   
Britt

Thank you all so much for replying it so scared and strange not knowing what is the real you or the paxil after a bit of slow taper !

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Britt   
Britt

Are there more people who tapered and after the last pil stil have problems like i have ? It is important to know before i start taking paxil again ! Maybe i have to give it another few months to see if i get any improvements ! X

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Songbird   
Songbird

Yes, it is normal to have some problems for a while even after tapering.  In general, the slower the taper, the less severe the problems and for less time.  Remember it is not really about getting to zero, it is about the body having to reverse all the changes it made to adapt to the presence of the drug.  Even though your taper may have been too fast, it was still a lot better than a cold turkey or very fast taper.

 

If things are really terrible and you really want to reinstate, I would do it now, as after two months off there is still a reasonable chance it will work.  The longer you stay off, the higher the risk that the reinstatement won't work or could make things worse.  This seems to be especially true for people who have been on a long time.  Because of the risk of making things worse, I would only reinstate if you are finding w/d really unbearable, because it might be worth the risk for the chance of getting some relief.  If it is bearable, I would ride it out as things should improve over time.

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Britt   
Britt

I can ride it out ! Its not really unbearable its bad but i dont have zapps but if i know this is who i am than it is unbearable i cant live my whole life like this ! X

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Songbird   
Songbird

It is not who you are and it won't be for your whole life! Rereading your first post, you say you were in poop-out - in that case reinstatement is even less likely to work. If you don't mind answering, what were you prescribed Paxil for originally?

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Britt   
Britt

A panic attack with dp for a view days ! I dont think i was poop out ! The problems started when i was taking 1 pill each other day for 1,5 year and get depression and from there i started my taper !

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