apace41: tapering Zoloft / sertraline

January 10, 2018

13 minutes ago, Blondiee1915 said:

Check out Rod Stryker on either YouTube or yogaglow (you can sign up for 10 day free access) . He helped me tremendously yesterday to shut that monkey mind and after I felt peace and less of that chatter in my head, it was truly a shift in me after I got home from work and experienced a horrible anxiety attack. Can you do some like yoga (I know you have issues with hips but maybe some gentle poses?) . Basically the whole class you concentrate on your breath while doing the same yoga pose and you count your inhale then hold and count your exhales and hold again. The mind solely concentrates on counting since it can change (inhale 4, hold 1, exhale 4, hold 1; then 5/2/5/2 and so on ) and in time you realize wow I have been so concentrated on breathing that I have not thought about any of the anxiety / symptom stuff. Thought maybe this could be helpful

Thanks, Blondiee! I will check it out. I do have hip limitations but I suspect I can find workarounds and do the breathing.

Best,

Andy

January 10, 2018

8 minutes ago, Bobo71 said:

I. feel I could write a self help book about this condition but the trouble is I can’t do any of it myself. I’d hate to think that it was only the passage of time that cures this and there’s nothing else to do but wait because life is so miserable and complex to manage at the moment. Every basic thing in life I took for granted (sleeping, eating, talking to others, even breathing) can be challenging. Just juggling all these symptoms is a full time job.

Could not agree more, Bobo. But, as a wise person recently told me, if you get too wrapped up in "an answer" you can find yourself spinning out of control.

I think finding a balance is the key. I'm not good at that either but I'm working on it.

Best,

Andy

January 10, 2018

5 hours ago, apace41 said:

No. A lawyer of all things.

Best,

Andy

Wow an attorney! Awesome. I worked for attorneys for years, serving papers. I also repossessed cars and did security. It was fun. What type of attorney are you?

I'm so sorry you are going through the sleep stuff. Hopefully it will get better soon.

I had a full blown panic attack last night about 10 minutes after we went to bed last night. I don't know why. I was tired. But I laid down, was getting comfortable and Bam! Not fun at all, especially with this akasthisia.

2018 is going to be great for all of us. Lots of healing. That's what I keep saying.

Take care,

Frogie xx

January 10, 2018

4 minutes ago, Frogie said:

Wow an attorney! Awesome. I worked for attorneys for years, serving papers. I also repossessed cars and did security. It was fun. What type of attorney are you?

I'm so sorry you are going through the sleep stuff. Hopefully it will get better soon.

I had a full blown panic attack last night about 10 minutes after we went to bed last night. I don't know why. I was tired. But I laid down, was getting comfortable and Bam! Not fun at all, especially with this akasthisia.

2018 is going to be great for all of us. Lots of healing. That's what I keep saying.

Take care,

Frogie xx

Frogie,

You're a woman of many talents!!

Sorry to hear of your panic attack, they're just awful...........feel shaken up for hours afterwards.

Yes, got to keep believing in the healing.

TC,

JC xx

January 10, 2018

8 minutes ago, Frogie said:

I'm so sorry you are going through the sleep stuff. Hopefully it will get better soon.

Thanks, Frogie. I appreciate your concern.

Best,

Andy

January 10, 2018

1 minute ago, Junglechicken said:

Frogie,

You're a woman of many talents!!

Sorry to hear of your panic attack, they're just awful...........feel shaken up for hours afterwards.

Yes, got to keep believing in the healing.

TC,

JC xx

JC:

It was fun serving papers and repossessing cars. The security was boring. But we did investigations also. Mostly personal injury. But my main job was bookkeeping, not glamorous at all.

It was awful , the panic attack. I haven't had one in quite a while. I finally gave in and took a Xanax after about 30 minutes.

We are all going to heal. I have to believe that.

Sorry Andy, stole your thread.

Take care,

Frogie xx

January 10, 2018

30 minutes ago, Bobo71 said:

DP is depersonalisation.

i also find it difficult to distract as when a symptom flares up - it brings me right back to the drawing board. I keep hearing the importance of acceptance and I think it must be true to stop the resistance. It’s all very difficult to put into practice thoughI. feel I could write a self help book about this condition but the trouble is I can’t do any of it myself. I’d hate to think that it was only the passage of time that cures this and there’s nothing else to do but wait because life is so miserable and complex to manage at the moment. Every basic thing in life I took for granted (sleeping, eating, talking to others, even breathing) can be challenging. Just juggling all these symptoms is a full time job.

Bobo, it will get better. In eight months off the drugs you are still in the thick of it. Till one year off it is the worst time. There are supplements like magnesium, fish oil, MSM which can help (I couldnt take any supplements during withdrawal) but mostly it is really that: to learn to temporarily live with the inconvenience and be sure that it will slowly improve.

But I understand depersonalization is awful. I didnt have it in withdrawal, I got it only when I took local anesthetics by the dentist for tooth pain in withdrawal. It was something terrible. I looked at people and they seemed weird. I felt like behind glass, like someone who cant make connection with people. They seemed like in other world. Someone you can not touch, like that. It was worse than intrusive thoughts. When it didnt disappear I wouldnt be able to hold on. This was the only one time in my life when I was seriously thinking on suicide. But thankfully, after three weeks when the drug reserves were off, it disappeared.

I think Bobo, what you can do, what helps, you should find someone in reality with whom you can talk about it, who would support you, when the symptoms get hard. I think this is the most important thing. I think, I survived because in the worst time there was always someone who told me that it would disappear. That it is not so serious.

By the way, I also worked in big 4 companies, wanted also to do M&A, did always international taxation, mostly individuals, expats.

January 10, 2018

Thanks Martina. I have a supportive wife and I have talking therapy. The therapist had experience with trauma so is familiar with DP. It normally kicks in after a heavy period of introspection, which is what I am trying not to do.

January 10, 2018

14 minutes ago, Frogie said:

JC:

It was fun serving papers and repossessing cars. The security was boring. But we did investigations also. Mostly personal injury. But my main job was bookkeeping, not glamorous at all.

It was awful , the panic attack. I haven't had one in quite a while. I finally gave in and took a Xanax after about 30 minutes.

We are all going to heal. I have to believe that.

Sorry Andy, stole your thread.

Take care,

Frogie xx

So when Andy is a lawyer, he can always serve his personal injury papers :-)

January 10, 2018

Andy

you said it was important for you to understand what is happening. From my research it seems that our CNS is massively desensitised by coming off Ssris. Also serotonin transmitters have been down graded. This means our bodies/minds are a battlefield of anxiety and hyper stimulation. All the other symptoms I think come about through excessive introspection and fear itself of the symptoms. Having read millions of books and internet articles it seems to revolve around the above. How to desensitise? That is the question for me. Meditation and relaxing seem to be the only things in the tool box but are like an umbrella in a hurricane in my experience.

January 10, 2018

4 minutes ago, Bobo71 said:

This means our bodies/minds are a battlefield of anxiety and hyper stimulation. All the other symptoms I think come about through excessive introspection and fear itself of the symptoms.

Yes. Agree on all counts.

5 minutes ago, Bobo71 said:

Meditation and relaxing seem to be the only things in the tool box but are like an umbrella in a hurricane in my experience.

The only other thing I am doing that may have some value is neurofeedback to attempt to accelerate the rewiring process.

Best,

Andy

January 10, 2018

All,

For a while I’ve been mulling over an observation which I believe is almost self evident and may help.

supposing that you’ve been tapering off drugs for some time and have been experiencing withdrawal. Says that period is two years. And suppose that each day is made up of feeling intense symptoms. Imagine that each time you have a disturbing thought triggered by a symptom, you lay down another unpleasant memory and you also memorise the negative emotional response which could be fear or hopelessness or intense apathy. I believe the memory and emotional response is stored in the amgydala. Think of all these memories stored over that time period. Simply hundreds of thousands of unpleasant thoughts and memories. And the recall of any of them also recalls the emotional response you had the first time you had the thought. The brain is swamped with negativity. And those memories can be attached to people, places (even lovely places like a beach) or indeed any circumstances that existed at the time of the initial thought. If you felt ill when wearing red dress even the sight of red can trigger a negative response. Now compare yourself to how you were before this nightmare. A typical day also involved thousands of thoughts, many of which were neutral, some pleasant and a few negative. During a typical day you probably smiled a bit and laughed heartily at s few jokes. When did you last laugh? A year ago? When did you last cry? This morning?Overall the memories we had when healthy would be greatly biased towards the neutral/pleasant compared to the massive bias to horrible memories in our brains as they are now.

Over Christmas I read the success story of Nadia. A wonderful story.Time healed her she said. But why? I imagine it was that the small windows she had enabled her to lay down some positive memories or at least neutral ones. Each successive window allowed her to lay down even more of these non-negative memories until the balance of memories shiftedto the positive. The was a momentum building around recovery.Can we speed this up some how?

perhaps being less introspective might help. Perhaps just sitting down and saying, right now, right here I am ok - I’m not dying, I’m not in a mad rage, I’m not literally crippled or whatever you are able to say. This is at least a neutral memory. Take yourself places you have felt ill in the past and make a note that you are not dead, you are surviving. Try and level the memory score card each day until you finally reach the day you have more positive thoughts/ memories than negative ones. Eventually the bad memories of withdrawl will be like a path overgrownby grass and will lose their hold over us. Smile at yourself or do a good deed, anything that generates a non toxic thought.

It’s a big challenge to do this every day and requires real discipline and immense patience. But there is no reason not to try.

Bobo

January 10, 2018

2 hours ago, Martina23 said:

So when Andy is a lawyer, he can always serve his personal injury papers :-)

He lives in a different state than I do, so I do t know the laws there. I was a process server. Hired by the attorneys to serve the papers to people.

I'm sure Andy doesn't want to talk about his line of work. He is here to help us heal from these awful drugs and is marvelous at doing that! He has helped me and given me advise that I really need to know about these drugs.

Take care,

Frogie xx

January 10, 2018

On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 7:05 PM, RachelSusan said:

11 hours ago, apace41 said:

I honestly believe that if I could stop thinking about it so much it would improve a little. It wouldn't heal me but I wouldn't be so obsessive about it and that would be helpful. Trying to figure out ways to do that if I can.

On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 1:12 PM, apace41 said:

Forgive my technology issues with quoting... argh!!

So, what I understand from anxietycentre is this: You choose your thoughts. Tell yourself to "stop" and then choose to think about something else. Yes, it's exhausting. Yes, it seems never ending. Yes, it feels like every minute. But I can tell you that this does work. Acceptance is hard. Sometimes you have to be gut wrenching honest with yourself and say out loud that you're scared of the sensations, you're scared that it's not going to end. Then apply the truth to it. For me, I use scripture (which I'm aware not everyone believes how I do). I think positive. I choose joy. I choose gratefulness.

For example, I just pray each day and say how grateful I am for things like my washing machine, the beautiful sunset, how my body is so intricately made that it can have all these sensations and I can still function I tell myself that my body was created to heal & it is healing. Yeah, sometimes I do get down and feel like this process has been going on for a long time...but I'm not giving up!! Then I practice acceptance. Every.single.day.

Maybe you need to take a break from this website? I get you want to help. But this can be a trigger (at least for me even now!).

I'm not trying to be Pollyanna about this...I just know from what I've lived during the cold turkeys/WD/ and finally off of Zoloft is that regardless of how my body likes to misbehave at times, I choose my thoughts. Where my thoughts go, my body follows. I'm assuming that since you've joined anxietycentre, you've read Jim's story and how he also talks about faith & how that helped him. For me, that is the gamechanger. That's how I've managed to walk this path. No offense intended to anyone...this is just my own personal opinion.

Anyway, here's praying for better days... for acceptance, for choosing good thoughts and endurance to run this race.

My best ~

January 10, 2018

24 minutes ago, Bobo71 said:

perhaps being less introspective might help. Perhaps just sitting down and saying, right now, right here I am ok - I’m not dying, I’m not in a mad rage, I’m not literally crippled or whatever you are able to say. This is at least a neutral memory. Take yourself places you have felt ill in the past and make a note that you are not dead, you are surviving. Try and level the memory score card each day until you finally reach the day you have more positive thoughts/ memories than negative ones. Eventually the bad memories of withdrawl will be like a path overgrownby grass and will lose their hold over us. Smile at yourself or do a good deed, anything that generates a non toxic thought.

I like the approach, Bobo. It's sort of a "break life down to its smallest pieces" approach. If you have more good pieces (memories) than bad you are moving in the right direction.

The challenge is that doing ANY of this when you are in a raging state of anxiety and can't sit still is very hard.

But I agree -- why not try.

Best,

Andy

January 10, 2018

10 minutes ago, bromor said:

So, what I understand from anxietycentre is this: You choose your thoughts. Tell yourself to "stop" and then choose to think about something else. Yes, it's exhausting. Yes, it seems never ending. Yes, it feels like every minute. But I can tell you that this does work. Acceptance is hard. Sometimes you have to be gut wrenching honest with yourself and say out loud that you're scared of the sensations, you're scared that it's not going to end. Then apply the truth to it. For me, I use scripture (which I'm aware not everyone believes how I do). I think positive. I choose joy. I choose gratefulness.

For example, I just pray each day and say how grateful I am for things like my washing machine, the beautiful sunset, how my body is so intricately made that it can have all these sensations and I can still function I tell myself that my body was created to heal & it is healing. Yeah, sometimes I do get down and feel like this process has been going on for a long time...but I'm not giving up!! Then I practice acceptance. Every.single.day.

B-

You are one of the leading lights at SA for personal CBT approaches to anxiety starting with D.A.R.E. and moving forward from there. I do not have the deep faith that you do and I envy you and others who do. I don't know if that can be "learned" at this stage of life.

The positive mindset, however, is something that is certainly achievable but something that I have always struggled with. Raised as something of a cynic about a lot of things, I am trying to see the glass as half full rather than, well... cracked. Your approach to all of this and to life is inspiring and I am trying hard to follow the lead of those on the board who espouse that view.

14 minutes ago, bromor said:

Maybe you need to take a break from this website? I get you want to help. But this can be a trigger (at least for me even now!).

I've thought about that for some time. If my current wave does not ease up I may have to take a little bit of a holiday to reduce the constant stress that comes from this site. I'd prefer not to as I believe in "paying it forward."

Thank you as always for your concern and hope your healing is going well.

Best,

Andy

January 10, 2018

Andy

Raging anxiety - I know it very well. I was mildly anxious before Ssris but it’s magnifed by a factor of 100 during withdrawal.

I call it fear because that is what it is to me. An intense fear. A fear that I will possibly lose control or lose my ability to talk or move. A fear I will collapse into a quivering heap.

There are various schools of thought. Some are in conflict. For example, some on this forum recommend removing yourself from all stress until you stabilise. Others (and indeed mainstream thereapy) suggest that is the last thing you should do - instead you should put yourself into the places and causes of fear and hold fast even if the wheels fall off because you’ve got to teach your brain that you are ok. For me i have no option but to work so I put myself into stressful situations all day every day. If i stay at home it gets worse so I don’t stay at home.

I don’t have much more to add to the discussion of anxiety. I have noticed that my body is often tense, my neck and shoulders in particular, so I try and relax the body as much as possible. I try and relax in the evening and then try and absorb and memorise that feeling as much as possible hoping I can access it when I feel fearful. I dont think ordering my brain to stop will get much traction.

From a biological perspective none of us in withdrawl have enough serotonin which is an natural and calming inhibitor. So we don’t have the normal internal mechanism to throw cold water onto the fire. So this isn’t any normal anxiety - it’s the supercharged variety and that is why many of us can’t fully benefit from the normal therapeutic approaches. But they are still worth doing even if they ameliorate the anxiety by 20%

What sort of insights are you getting from your Neurofeedback sessions if you don’t mind to share?

January 10, 2018

1 hour ago, Bobo71 said:

Raging anxiety - I know it very well. I was mildly anxious before Ssris but it’s magnifed by a factor of 100 during withdrawal.

I call it fear because that is what it is to me. An intense fear. A fear that I will possibly lose control or lose my ability to talk or move. A fear I will collapse into a quivering heap.

Great stuff, Bobo. Yes, fear is a good descriptor. For me, it has been an evolution. For a long time I had fear in the nature of health anxiety and thought that each symptom was the sign of some heinous disease. I have a family history (father's side) that sowed the seeds for that long ago and withdrawal was the trigger. That has now morphed more into a fear that I will become debilitated, unable to work and support my family and generally a similar quivering heap.

1 hour ago, Bobo71 said:

There are various schools of thought. Some are in conflict. For example, some on this forum recommend removing yourself from all stress until you stabilise. Others (and indeed mainstream thereapy) suggest that is the last thing you should do - instead you should put yourself into the places and causes of fear and hold fast even if the wheels fall off because you’ve got to teach your brain that you are ok. For me i have no option but to work so I put myself into stressful situations all day every day. If i stay at home it gets worse so I don’t stay at home.

I am in the same boat as you as I have to work and remain under stress much of the time. With my kids all grown, home is somewhat less stressful but that is not really a financial option short of qualifying for disability which is a place I don't really want to contemplate. The question as to the "schools of thought" seems to turn on whether the anxiety at issue is "normal" anxiety, in which case the facing, floating, accepting concepts of Claire Weekes and others work well or whether it is "chemical" anxiety which is not triggered by the cognitive function but by the body and for which these concepts are less useful. I am with you that even if we can only increase our ability to withstand the fear at the margins, it is still worth the effort. We have members who have done quite well in that regard.

1 hour ago, Bobo71 said:

What sort of insights are you getting from your Neurofeedback sessions if you don’t mind to share?

I don't mind but there's not that much to share. The way it works is you have an intake session with the therapist who figures out what areas of the brain should be the focal point of treatment. From there, it is largely a matter of getting strapped to an EEG machine and a movie being played with "reward" system for your being able to "keep" your brainwaves in a certain range. The therapist continually shifts and moves the brain wave targets based on the brain waves he/she is trying to affect. It is largely a "passive" activity for the patient. So far, jury is out, but I know some have seen value, e.g., GiaK (Monica Cassini from BeyondMeds) used it early in her treatment and was very favorably inclined.

Best,

Andy

January 10, 2018

One last thought ~ there is no doubt that this anxiety "feels" different since it is chemical in nature (at least the majority of it)....however, allowing our CNS to rest and repair can happen no matter whether we have w/d issues or not. I think we can apply those same principals. Control your thoughts, find out what the root cause is - this is covered in depth in anxiety centre, accept....knowing that it can take a long long time for our bodies to heal (especially after being on the meds).

Fear is the root of anxiety. I'll be honest here and say that fear was what caused my anxiety/panic attacks.... I didn't deal with the issues and just took the meds. Now, I do have to put a disclaimer in here that you should definitely get a check up from your doc because thyroid/hormone issues ect can cause anxiety symptoms. I was lucky enough to have some of those as well...a simply perfect storm. Take are of your body, eat right, rest/sleep, meditate/deep relaxation. Even if it feels like 1 step forward and 2 steps back.

Anyway, creating new thought grooves in your brain takes time (21 days or longer). Plus if you're like me, there are a myriad of thought processes that need to be worked on. Just being honest!

As far as faith, well, I believe it's never too late. Never! Maybe try reading a few Psalms, simply asking God to help you. (I'm not going to say anymore but will be praying for you on this path.)

January 11, 2018

I thought I'd share this which I found interesting and helpful for stress reduction, acceptance and healing:

"...a study out of Yale, looked at the part of the brain known as the default mode network (DMN), which is active when we're lost in thought - ruminating about the past, projecting into the future, obsessing about ourselves. The researchers found meditators were not only deactivating this region while they were practicing, but also when they were not meditating. In other words, meditation created a new default mode" ..."Even though scientists were quick to point out that the research was still in its embryonic stage, these studies had helped demolish neuro-scientific dogma that had prevailed for generations. The old conventional wisdom was that once we reached adulthood, our brain stopped changing. This orthodoxy was now replaced with a new paradigm, called neuro-plasticity. The brain, it turns out, is constantly changing in response to experience." ....."What the science was showing was that our levels of well-being, resilience, and impulse control were not simply God-given traits, our portion of which we had to accept as a fait accompli. The brain, the organ of experience, through which our entire lives are led, can be trained. Happiness is a skill." Dan Harris "10% Happier"

January 11, 2018

7 hours ago, bromor said:

Maybe you need to take a break from this website? I get you want to help. But this can be a trigger (at least for me even now!).

This site used to be like my full time job, I was here for hours every day. At the time I think it was helping me as much as I was helping others, but eventually I got emotionally burned out. Compassion fatigue I think they call it.

But staying away from withdrawal related sites for the best part of the last year hasn't improved my rate of recovery, not that I've noticed. Symptoms are still cycling around, worse in the mornings, improving as the day unfolds, sometimes manageable, sometimes preventing me from doing what I want to do or need to do.

I've found a new way to spend my time, a new way to distract and fulfill my need to be helpful, something unrelated to withdrawal and requiring less emotional involvement. I spend so little time these days thinking about withdrawal, I sort of 'forget' that's why I'm so uncomfortable and non-functional, its just become 'the way my life is'. I need to visit withdrawal sites from time to time to remind myself what's wrong with me, that its normal given my history and that I'm going to recover eventually.

Andy, I think you would be able to feel if being here, helping others is having a negative effect on your own recovery. For me it wasn't, then I just had nothing left to give and forcing myself would have been detrimental to my own recovery.

January 11, 2018

8 hours ago, Bobo71 said:

Perhaps just sitting down and saying, right now, right here I am ok - I’m not dying, I’m not in a mad rage, I’m not literally crippled or whatever you are able to say. This is at least a neutral memory.

I've been using this technique whenever overwhelming chemical states and sensations arise. I didn't want to quote the whole post this came from, but I've had similar thoughts and have come to the same conclusion. Negative memories and associations are so much stronger than positive or neutral ones. I expect this is selective in an evolutionary sense and has contributed to our survival as a species, but not so great for us now.

I'm not sure how much doing this is actually helping though. No matter how many times I've had neutral or even positive experiences and therefore should have created new memories of walking around my local park, the terror filled memories of earlier times are the ones which remain salient and prevent me from wanting to repeat the process. Its understandable and I can't help respecting the way we have evolved/been created with these self protective systems.

But I don't think this is as hopeless as it may seem. I've had some significant windows, lasting weeks and months, stretches of time where I've been completely recovered, albeit temporarily. During those times, those negative memories didn't arise. It was like that negative conditioning didn't even exist. If I thought about it, I could remember that previously I'd had bad experiences in that place, but there was no emotional aspect to the memories.... they were gone. This gives me hope that when we eventually do recover, when everything is working in harmony and everything back in balance, these protective bad memories will also subside.

January 11, 2018

2 hours ago, Petunia said:

Negative memories and associations are so much stronger than positive or neutral ones.

Why is this.. y left out positive ones an when would someone expect them to return back... i m 21 mos off, feeling the same.

January 11, 2018

14 hours ago, Martina23 said:

In eight months off the drugs you are still in the thick of it. Till one year off it is the worst time.

Thanks, Martina, for this tidbit. I am in month 9, awful wave, and wonder if I'll see any improvements when it hits 12 months or is the miserable way I'll be. This gives me hope that it does get better in time.

January 11, 2018

4 hours ago, Petunia said:

This site used to be like my full time job, I was here for hours every day. At the time I think it was helping me as much as I was helping others, but eventually I got emotionally burned out. Compassion fatigue I think they call it.

But staying away from withdrawal related sites for the best part of the last year hasn't improved my rate of recovery, not that I've noticed. Symptoms are still cycling around, worse in the mornings, improving as the day unfolds, sometimes manageable, sometimes preventing me from doing what I want to do or need to do.

I'v

4 hours ago, Petunia said:

This site used to be like my full time job, I was here for hours every day. At the time I think it was helping me as much as I was helping others, but eventually I got emotionally burned out. Compassion fatigue I think they call it.

But staying away from withdrawal related sites for the best part of the last year hasn't improved my rate of recovery, not that I've noticed. Symptoms are still cycling around, worse in the mornings, improving as the day unfolds, sometimes manageable, sometimes preventing me from doing what I want to do or need to do.

I've found a new way to spend my time, a new way to distract and fulfill my need to be helpful, something unrelated to withdrawal and requiring less emotional involvement. I spend so little time these days thinking about withdrawal, I sort of 'forget' that's why I'm so uncomfortable and non-functional, its just become 'the way my life is'. I need to visit withdrawal sites from time to time to remind myself what's wrong with me, that its normal given my history and that I'm going to recover eventually.

Andy, I think you would be able to feel if being here, helping others is having a negative effect on your own recovery. For me it wasn't, then I just had nothing left to give and forcing myself would have been detrimental to my own recovery.

e found a new way to spend my time, a new way to distract and fulfill my need to be helpful, something unrelated to withdrawal and requiring less emotional involvement. I spend so little time these days thinking about withdrawal, I sort of 'forget' that's why I'm so uncomfortable and non-functional, its just become 'the way my life is'. I need to visit withdrawal sites from time to time to remind myself what's wrong with me, that its normal given my history and that I'm going to recover eventually.

Andy, I think you would be able to feel if being here, helping others is having a negative effect on your own recovery. For me it wasn't, then I just had nothing left to give and forcing myself would have been detrimental to my own recovery.

January 11, 2018

Petuna’s point about doing/thinking about other things other than withdrawal is helpful. I play a lot of internet chess which distracts me. Dale Carnegie noted that it is not possible to think about two things at the same time, so if you are immersed in an activity that requires your full focus then you will not be able to also think about the negative situation of withdrawal during that time.

I’n now fairly well resigned to the fact this will be a long process of recovery. I’m 8 months in and feel at the start of the recovery process. I foolishly started out thinking in terms of weeks of recovery. I then started to think in terms of months but now I have extended to reviewing my progress each quarter (3 months) although I still do think about each day.

Even if it turns out that recovery comes quicker it is best to manage my internal expectations so that I would be pleasantly surprised (understatement). It’s futile to put time expectations down for recovery and to try and keep chasing it. As a child, when it hit 1 December, I kept wishing the days away to Christmas Day. It never came any quicker, it arrived in its own good time whatever I wished for but neither was it delayed.

While all of this is going on I would like to do something of real value that I could look back on and say that although that was the worst time of my life, I was still able to do x and y that made that period of my life worth living. Maybe for altosrata it was setting up this forum - a great and lasting achievement For which she can be very proud of. For others it could be a community project or trying to learn a foreign language if your cognition/memory is not too impacted. Indeed anything that means that the time in withdrawal isn’t just a long block of wasted time. Some people in prison make good use of their time given very limited resources and at least we have our freedom.

January 11, 2018

10 hours ago, Bobo71 said:

While all of this is going on I would like to do something of real value that I could look back on and say that although that was the worst time of my life, I was still able to do x and y that made that period of my life worth living. Maybe for altosrata it was setting up this forum - a great and lasting achievement For which she can be very proud of. For others it could be a community project or trying to learn a foreign language if your cognition/memory is not too impacted. Indeed anything that means that the time in withdrawal isn’t just a long block of wasted time. Some people in prison make good use of their time given very limited resources and at least we have our freedom.

I like this. I also try to use the time in withdrawal the best I can so that it is not wasted. I think we should live each day so that it is not wasted. I would still like to travel in my life -in so many countries, the best all over the world, I hope I will find courage really to accomplish it.

January 11, 2018

I’m sure you will. Not overdoing it at first and then building up the from there. Something you can be proud of doing even if you don’t necessarily enjoy it.

January 11, 2018

Martina - I like you also would love to travel to different countries and I truly hope one day I can. It is all fear based too I cannot imagine going anywhere by myself

Bromor - we have a lot in common . I also have anxiety and was placed on the meds bc of that and yes the fear itself what drives the anxiety and I never dealt with addressing my issues while on meds or pre meds . Work in process now

Andy - how are you doing ? Hope you got some sleep 😴

January 11, 2018

1 minute ago, Blondiee1915 said:

Andy - how are you doing ? Hope you got some sleep 😴

Thanks for checking in, Blondiee. You are a sweetheart.

It was an interesting night. I was exhausted and kept falling asleep in front of the TV but each time I nodded off I would have a hypnic jerk and bolt upright. That, of course, scared me because I thought there would be no way to sleep with that going on. I googled SA for hypnic jerks and people talking about having them and sleeping even after they were hitting so that gave me some confidence.

Went to bed and was fighting it. I don't know how long this went on but I was lying there trying to stay still and get to a point where I'd finally nod off. I had a few jerks but each time I reassumed "the position." That was the last I remember and next thing I knew it was 6:15 and I was up. So, I got 7+ hours of sleep and while it was not the most "restorative" sleep on record, it was still sleep and I will take it for sure.

For the past couple of days I've been dealing with that fatigue factor that many in withdrawal complain about. The kind of fatigue where if you close your eyes for a second you are immediately "gonzo". This is the kind of napping that feels toxic to the body. I'm hoping that passes shortly.

Anyway, to make a long story short, I DID sleep and I appreciate your asking.

Best,

Andy

January 11, 2018

8 minutes ago, apace41 said:

Thanks for checking in, Blondiee. You are a sweetheart.

It was an interesting night. I was exhausted and kept falling asleep in front of the TV but each time I nodded off I would have a hypnic jerk and bolt upright. That, of course, scared me because I thought there would be no way to sleep with that going on. I googled SA for hypnic jerks and people talking about having them and sleeping even after they were hitting so that gave me some confidence.

Went to bed and was fighting it. I don't know how long this went on but I was lying there trying to stay still and get to a point where I'd finally nod off. I had a few jerks but each time I reassumed "the position." That was the last I remember and next thing I knew it was 6:15 and I was up. So, I got 7+ hours of sleep and while it was not the most "restorative" sleep on record, it was still sleep and I will take it for sure.

For the past couple of days I've been dealing with that fatigue factor that many in withdrawal complain about. The kind of fatigue where if you close your eyes for a second you are immediately "gonzo". This is the kind of napping that feels toxic to the body. I'm hoping that passes shortly.

Anyway, to make a long story short, I DID sleep and I appreciate your asking.

Best,

Andy

Andy:

I'm soooooo glad you finally got some sleep. You deserve it.

I hope you can continue😴😴😴

Take care,

Frogie xx

January 11, 2018

2 minutes ago, Frogie said:

I'm soooooo glad you finally got some sleep. You deserve it.

Thanks, Frogie. That's kind of you.

Best,

Andy

January 11, 2018

Just now, apace41 said:

Thanks, Frogie. That's kind of you.

Best,

Andy

☺️

January 11, 2018

Yay, good to hear about sleep . I am sure your body is thanking you for it too. I listened to a meditation last night and it said something like the reason we do not fall asleep is because we are not allowing subconsciously for our bodies to do so due to stress and chatter mind. And it talked about how when we were young we could fall asleep as soon as we hit the pillow due to care free and stress free life . Who knows maybe some truth in it . But again these drugs make it so complicated . Sleep is so healing and restorative, I really hope it will continue to be better and better. Oh and I read about this calm sleep mist - pillow spray essential oils that contains lavender chamomile and sage I was thinking about getting that for myself as well .

Interesting about these body jerks. I occasionally get those when I sleep too but I thought it only happens when you are overly tired had no idea it can be WD related . I remember I used to get horrible ones while being on nardil I would literary jump up in bed thank goodness I am not on that anymore . I cannot be surprised anymore by how many things we can experience bc of meds . 😳

January 11, 2018

34 minutes ago, apace41 said:

It was an interesting night. I was exhausted and kept falling asleep in front of the TV but each time I nodded off I would have a hypnic jerk and bolt upright. That, of course, scared me because I thought there would be no way to sleep with that going on.

It sounds like you're back on track, albeit a bumpy track, with your sleep. Glad to read about the 7 hours.

This is a guided meditation I use when I'm getting slammed with internal vibrations and hypnic jerks.

Guided meditation journey to sleep on a train ( with video ) video (1 hour 37 minutes)

My sleep has been a hit or a miss, but I've had some luck with this video for the internal vibrations and muscle jerks. It's one of my favorites. I imagine that I'm on a train and so it's okay to feel jerks and bolts and a bit jostled around from time to time. Wearing headphones helps with really experiencing the train ride effect.

It's like if I can place the jerks and bolts in context with the train ride, I can ease myself back to sleep some nights. It think these kinds of guided meditations are very helpful because they play into the guided imagery that can be so powerful and healing.

Hope this helps and that your sleep gets better and better.

January 11, 2018

20 minutes ago, Blondiee1915 said:

I cannot be surprised anymore by how many things we can experience bc of meds . 😳

So true, Blondiee. So true.

Best,

Andy

apace41: tapering Zoloft / sertraline

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