☼ dan998: Cold turkey, reinstatement and tapering citalopram

[Dan998]

On 05/08/2017 at 9:00 PM, Flowers said:

Well whatever it is, if the running is helping that can only be good!

 

Sorry you have been poorly. I have often thought when really suffering badly in a wave if only I could trade this for a normal illness (like a cold) where I know I will get better! 

 

Glad you are still in a window. Me too! 

 

Flowers xxx

At least with a physical illness people actually believe you are unwell and not just being lazy, or worse still, making it up, because they've read that there's no such thing as antidepressant addiction or withdrawal.

 

I got no sympathy from any of my friends or family throughout this entire ordeal. I get a cold and they all of a sudden become concerned for my welfare. I think people are scared to confront mental illness. Maybe they think it's contagious?

[Flowers]

Just don't think anyone knows how to deal with mental illness unless they have suffered from it. I think it scares some people.  I grew up with several family members suffering with it so got used to being around people who were on meds. It still didn't make any sense to me until I became a sufferer too.

 

WD is even worse for people to understand as we are changing constantly in mood and physical symptoms. 

 

I have been lucky with friends and family being supportive but they still don't get it!! I often think if I had broken my leg or something it would have been easier for us all to bear.

 

It is good that your cold hasn't triggered a wave - look after yourself and get well soon.

 

Flowers xxx

 

 

 

 

[apace41]

22 hours ago, Dan998 said:

At least with a physical illness people actually believe you are unwell and not just being lazy, or worse still, making it up, because they've read that there's no such thing as antidepressant addiction or withdrawal.

 

I think it's even more of an issue that people have no clue. I don't think they've actually read there's no such thing as antidepressant withdrawal -- there is no discussion about it outside of the circles in which those of us suffering travel.  Chalk one up for big pharma -- not only have they been able to convince the medical community that these drugs don't cause dependence but they have been able to basically keep the entire issue under wraps.  This is essentially the same thing that happened with benzos only 2 decades earlier. Shockingly, the word starts to get out when the drugs start coming off patent.  Coincidence?  LOL.

 

1 hour ago, Flowers said:

Just don't think anyone knows how to deal with mental illness unless they have suffered from it. I think it scares some people

 

I think people have an issue with mental illness of the kind portrayed in the movies -- psychosis, schizophrenia, etc.  I don't think people look at depression the same way because it is so epidemic in society at this point.  Regardless, the issue as it pertains to us is NOT the underlying mental illness -- it is the iatrogenic harm caused by the meds and the effort to get off of them.  In that regard, there is no visible scar or damage so there is no reason for others to have empathy -- except for the case of those that are truly empathic in nature who are few and far between.

 

Add to that the fact that many/most of us are left trying to hold our lives together and do everything in our power NOT to come across as disabled by the process and we are left to feel very, very alone most of the time.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Dan998]

Hi Andy and Flowers. I wanted to reply to this a bit sooner, but that respiratory infection really knocked the stuffing out of me over the last couple of days.

 

The points raised here lead into a wider discussion about how neoliberalism, globalisation and modern technology affect our mental health. We, as a society, have yet to adjust to the stresses caused by the profound changes that have occurred in the last 30 years. The complexity of our modern world is overwhelming to our unevolved, caveman-like brains.

 

Multinational companies bombard us with advertising that portrays the message that the path to true happiness is to buy more of their product. When, in fact, what makes humans most happy is deep and meaningful relationships with other humans. What most people fail to realise is that businesses have only one goal; to make as much money for their owners and shareholders as possible. They have little or no ethics, and have absolutely no regard the mental health of either their employees or consumers. It's all about the money, and this is encouraged by government and society as a whole. Greed is good and we should all trample over each other in a never ending race towards making ever greater profits. If people are left behind and are starving or sleeping on the streets then it's their own fault for being weak or for not trying hard enough.

 

The mass media have also really done a number on us too. They sensationalise everything in order to get more viewers and hence more advertising revenue. They've got us all suspicious and distrustful of the motives of other people. They've planted the seed in our mind that murderers, thieves and robbers are everywhere; and that the world is a dangerous place which we should avoid as much as possible. That we should stay indoors where it's safe and experience the world through the distorted lens of the television. The sad thing is that the opposite is true; most people's intentions are benign and the world is actually an exciting place to be, with the possibility of doing amazing things, and having those deep and meaningful interactions with genuinely interesting people that will enrich our lives.

 

Social networks, despite their name, tend isolate us even further and reinforce the view that people are supposed to be happy all the time. Whenever we see posts from our friends they are invariably posting a selfie of themselves having a fantastic time. You rarely ever see someone talk about the dullness of daily life or that they are struggling to cope and are having a really miserable time. Social media is also destroying traditional communities that, along with our extended family, are the basis of a strong support network that would benefit our mental and social health. Instead of going out and interacting with a diverse group of people in our local community and exposing ourselves to different opinions and points of view, we are superficially interacting with groups of people that share our own narrow view of the world, a view that is often narrated by the mainstream media, and any dissent is suppressed until all members of the group yield to the consensus of opinion. If you don't fit in then you are ostracized and deemed to have something wrong with you. 

 

It's a perfect storm that usually culminates in a trip to the doctor's office where, after a 5 minute consultation, you are offered a way out. A pill that will allow you to tolerate an intolerable situation and to cope with the stresses of our confusing, and often contradictory, constructed reality. A pill that we are told will correct a nonexistent defect in our brain and allow us to live in blissful ecstasy. And just like that we are trapped in a lie that has stolen the minds and ruined the lives of millions of people.

 

Direct to consumer advertising of prescription medication is not allowed in Europe. However, Big Pharma are allowed advertising to medical professionals, and you can be sure that drug companies have used the full force of their marketing departments to persuade doctors about the effectiveness of their medications. Doctors are mostly human (although some of them think of themselves as demigods) and are not immune to the advanced psychological methods employed to influence them. Yes, the doctors have been conned too. They are the government sanctioned agents that legitimately push these highly addictive poisons for the benefit of Big Pharmas balance sheet. It is wrong on so many levels.

 

Ive got carried away with this post. I could ramble on for 1000s of words about the politics of mental health as it is a subject that really interests me. Perhaps there is a blog or book waiting to be written once my brain is fully functional again.

[apace41]

Great post, Dan.  There is a whole discussion that can be had with respect to the corporatocracy that now rules the world in the form of big pharma, big agriculture, etc. but I'm not in a position to write a post on that at this time.  Suffice it to say that we are all at the disposal of the monolithic companies that run the world and the next great revolution on the world stage will be at the point that people are collectively (this will be worldwide) sick and tired of being made and left sick and tired by these companies.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[powerback]

On ‎07‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 0:02 AM, Dan998 said:

At least with a physical illness people actually believe you are unwell and not just being lazy, or worse still, making it up, because they've read that there's no such thing as antidepressant addiction or withdrawal.

 

I got no sympathy from any of my friends or family throughout this entire ordeal. I get a cold and they all of a sudden become concerned for my welfare. I think people are scared to confront mental illness. Maybe they think it's contagious?

ye I agree here dan ,it just shows how clueless  people are ,they just don't have any idea .last week I came home and there was a small cut on my forehead and my partner made a big deal about it ,my mindfulness came in handy so as not to snap

[powerback]

1 hour ago, Dan998 said:

Hi Andy and Flowers. I wanted to reply to this a bit sooner, but that respiratory infection really knocked the stuffing out of me over the last couple of days.

 

The points raised here lead into a wider discussion about how neoliberalism, globalisation and modern technology affect our mental health. We, as a society, have yet to adjust to the stresses caused by the profound changes that have occurred in the last 30 years. The complexity of our modern world is overwhelming to our unevolved, caveman-like brains.

 

Multinational companies bombard us with advertising that portrays the message that the path to true happiness is to buy more of their product. When, in fact, what makes humans most happy is deep and meaningful relationships with other humans. What most people fail to realise is that businesses have only one goal; to make as much money for their owners and shareholders as possible. They have little or no ethics, and have absolutely no regard the mental health of either their employees or consumers. It's all about the money, and this is encouraged by government and society as a whole. Greed is good and we should all trample over each other in a never ending race towards making ever greater profits. If people are left behind and are starving or sleeping on the streets then it's their own fault for being weak or for not trying hard enough.

 

The mass media have also really done a number on us too. They sensationalise everything in order to get more viewers and hence more advertising revenue. They've got us all suspicious and distrustful of the motives of other people. They've planted the seed in our mind that murderers, thieves and robbers are everywhere; and that the world is a dangerous place which we should avoid as much as possible. That we should stay indoors where it's safe and experience the world through the distorted lens of the television. The sad thing is that the opposite is true; most people's intentions are benign and the world is actually an exciting place to be, with the possibility of doing amazing things, and having those deep and meaningful interactions with genuinely interesting people that will enrich our lives.

 

Social networks, despite their name, tend isolate us even further and reinforce the view that people are supposed to be happy all the time. Whenever we see posts from our friends they are invariably posting a selfie of themselves having a fantastic time. You rarely ever see someone talk about the dullness of daily life or that they are struggling to cope and are having a really miserable time. Social media is also destroying traditional communities that, along with our extended family, are the basis of a strong support network that would benefit our mental and social health. Instead of going out and interacting with a diverse group of people in our local community and exposing ourselves to different opinions and points of view, we are superficially interacting with groups of people that share our own narrow view of the world, a view that is often narrated by the mainstream media, and any dissent is suppressed until all members of the group yield to the consensus of opinion. If you don't fit in then you are ostracized and deemed to have something wrong with you. 

 

It's a perfect storm that usually culminates in a trip to the doctor's office where, after a 5 minute consultation, you are offered a way out. A pill that will allow you to tolerate an intolerable situation and to cope with the stresses of our confusing, and often contradictory, constructed reality. A pill that we are told will correct a nonexistent defect in our brain and allow us to live in blissful ecstasy. And just like that we are trapped in a lie that has stolen the minds and ruined the lives of millions of people.

 

Direct to consumer advertising of prescription medication is not allowed in Europe. However, Big Pharma are allowed advertising to medical professionals, and you can be sure that drug companies have used the full force of their marketing departments to persuade doctors about the effectiveness of their medications. Doctors are mostly human (although some of them think of themselves as demigods) and are not immune to the advanced psychological methods employed to influence them. Yes, the doctors have been conned too. They are the government sanctioned agents that legitimately push these highly addictive poisons for the benefit of Big Pharmas balance sheet. It is wrong on so many levels.

 

Ive got carried away with this post. I could ramble on for 1000s of words about the politics of mental health as it is a subject that really interests me. Perhaps there is a blog or book waiting to be written once my brain is fully functional again.

brilliant post dan ,you've basically diagnosed the ills of modern society .

you would enjoy this if you haven't watched already

[Dan998]

5 hours ago, apace41 said:

Great post, Dan.  There is a whole discussion that can be had with respect to the corporatocracy that now rules the world in the form of big pharma, big agriculture, etc. but I'm not in a position to write a post on that at this time.  Suffice it to say that we are all at the disposal of the monolithic companies that run the world and the next great revolution on the world stage will be at the point that people are collectively (this will be worldwide) sick and tired of being made and left sick and tired by these companies.

 

Best,

 

Andy

I think there is a whiff of change in the air, at least here in the UK there is anyway. We almost elected a socialist government this year. A socialist government that would have redistributed the wealth more fairly and perhaps would have increased funding so that SSRIs weren't the first, and usually only, therapy for any disease of the mind. It was a close run thing and effectively no-one actually won the election and there will probably be another one soon. The election briefly brought mental health towards the top of the agenda for both parties, although they will probably be preoccupied with that whole leaving the EU thing now.

 

We also have the Council For Evidence Based Psychiatry and that Healy bloke, personally I don't like Healy and would much prefer more Breggins. Then there have been some journalists that have been looking into the harm that antidepressants cause. There have been a few documentaries and some well written articles published in the newspapers.

 

I think one of the reasons the spotlight has been directed towards SSRIs is that our health service is publicly funded and there has to be accountability for the effectiveness of these treatments and also for the huge expense for the millions of prescriptions of psych meds dished out like candy every year.

 

So, the word is slowly getting out there. We all just have to keep shouting until we are heard. Although, it can be an uphill struggle, as I found out whilst tweeting about a recent BBC documentary and received a torrent of abuse for my anti-drugs message from spellbound users who insisted that psych meds had saved their lives. Most of whom were quite young and hadn't yet developed tolerance or experienced withdrawal. I expect we'll see them all here in a few years time. 

[Dan998]

Thanks for the link, Powerback. It looks right up my street. I'm busy watching the athletics and golf at the moment, but I shall give it a look later on.

 

I hope your cut head heals soon. Good work with the mindfulness. It can be tough on those closest to us during withdrawal, they quite often don't deserve to have our anger and frustration directed towards them.

[Dan998]

Had quite a manic day. It wasn't the nasty, anxiety driven akathisia that usually accompanies mania. Instead it was a positive type of mania where I got a loads done. The household chores got blitzed, I got into a cleaning frenzy and once I started found it very hard to stop, and the place is sparkling now. Also cooked up a load of meals for next week, got out for a walk and did some reading.

 

I like this mania. It comes as a welcome change from the years of lethargy that I have had to endure during the last 2 years. It reminds me of the person I used to be before I ever took drugs. I was a ball of pure energy back then. I never stopped. I was always up to something and had so many hobbies and interests. Although, I was much younger, and fitter (and better looking), back then and probably shouldn't expect to return to this state again. It's encouraging though. A little glimpse of what may be to come? 

 

The respiratory infection seems to have cleared up. I'm gonna give it another day just to make sure, and then I'll be putting my running shoes on and pounding the streets again. Haven't been running in over a week and I've put back on the 5kg of weight I'd lost. I don't know how though, as I don't think I've eaten 5kg of food this week. Maybe I'm turning into a plant and metabolising carbon dioxide.

 

Tonight iIm going to treat myself to a lovely cold pint of Guinness to help me unwind. I think I've earned it today. I might have two. It is Saturday night after all. 

[Dan998]

None of that positive mania today. Back to normal levels of lethargy, which is a shame as I was actually quite enjoying myself. At one point I noticed that I was dancing and singing along to the radio, haven't done that in ages. I think the positive mania (not sure if I should even call it that?) is likely going to be a factor of recovery that comes and goes for a while, before it comes and stays, and then becomes a permanent part of my reality. This is probably for the best though, as such as radical and dramatic change is going to take quite a lot of getting used to. I shall need to learn some new skills, get organised and readjust my routine in order to be able to fill my time with more sustained and energetic activities. 

 

This window has lasted 3 weeks now. By far the longest and bestest one I've had. Really hoping that it doesn't suddenly slam shut.

[powerback]

keep the window open good on ye .

enjoying an evening window myself .

staying in the moment and not letting my mind drift to the morning anxiety ,but ile just float through it .

PB

[Dan998]

Aye, enjoy the moment. The morning can wait until tomorrow.

[Martina23]

On 10.8.2017 at 5:45 PM, Dan998 said:

Hi Andy and Flowers. I wanted to reply to this a bit sooner, but that respiratory infection really knocked the stuffing out of me over the last couple of days.

 

The points raised here lead into a wider discussion about how neoliberalism, globalisation and modern technology affect our mental health. We, as a society, have yet to adjust to the stresses caused by the profound changes that have occurred in the last 30 years. The complexity of our modern world is overwhelming to our unevolved, caveman-like brains.

 

Multinational companies bombard us with advertising that portrays the message that the path to true happiness is to buy more of their product. When, in fact, what makes humans most happy is deep and meaningful relationships with other humans. What most people fail to realise is that businesses have only one goal; to make as much money for their owners and shareholders as possible. They have little or no ethics, and have absolutely no regard the mental health of either their employees or consumers. It's all about the money, and this is encouraged by government and society as a whole. Greed is good and we should all trample over each other in a never ending race towards making ever greater profits. If people are left behind and are starving or sleeping on the streets then it's their own fault for being weak or for not trying hard enough.

 

The mass media have also really done a number on us too. They sensationalise everything in order to get more viewers and hence more advertising revenue. They've got us all suspicious and distrustful of the motives of other people. They've planted the seed in our mind that murderers, thieves and robbers are everywhere; and that the world is a dangerous place which we should avoid as much as possible. That we should stay indoors where it's safe and experience the world through the distorted lens of the television. The sad thing is that the opposite is true; most people's intentions are benign and the world is actually an exciting place to be, with the possibility of doing amazing things, and having those deep and meaningful interactions with genuinely interesting people that will enrich our lives.

 

Social networks, despite their name, tend isolate us even further and reinforce the view that people are supposed to be happy all the time. Whenever we see posts from our friends they are invariably posting a selfie of themselves having a fantastic time. You rarely ever see someone talk about the dullness of daily life or that they are struggling to cope and are having a really miserable time. Social media is also destroying traditional communities that, along with our extended family, are the basis of a strong support network that would benefit our mental and social health. Instead of going out and interacting with a diverse group of people in our local community and exposing ourselves to different opinions and points of view, we are superficially interacting with groups of people that share our own narrow view of the world, a view that is often narrated by the mainstream media, and any dissent is suppressed until all members of the group yield to the consensus of opinion. If you don't fit in then you are ostracized and deemed to have something wrong with you. 

 

It's a perfect storm that usually culminates in a trip to the doctor's office where, after a 5 minute consultation, you are offered a way out. A pill that will allow you to tolerate an intolerable situation and to cope with the stresses of our confusing, and often contradictory, constructed reality. A pill that we are told will correct a nonexistent defect in our brain and allow us to live in blissful ecstasy. And just like that we are trapped in a lie that has stolen the minds and ruined the lives of millions of people.

 

Direct to consumer advertising of prescription medication is not allowed in Europe. However, Big Pharma are allowed advertising to medical professionals, and you can be sure that drug companies have used the full force of their marketing departments to persuade doctors about the effectiveness of their medications. Doctors are mostly human (although some of them think of themselves as demigods) and are not immune to the advanced psychological methods employed to influence them. Yes, the doctors have been conned too. They are the government sanctioned agents that legitimately push these highly addictive poisons for the benefit of Big Pharmas balance sheet. It is wrong on so many levels.

 

Ive got carried away with this post. I could ramble on for 1000s of words about the politics of mental health as it is a subject that really interests me. Perhaps there is a blog or book waiting to be written once my brain is fully functional again.

Dan, I like this post of yours. You know, now when you are out of drugs, you have much deeper and very beautiful comments. It shows me really that the brain, when it has the possibility to be out of drugs, works other. Much quicker, and is able of higher things. I saw it also on me, when I went of drugs totally, something changed. At once I started painting, doing sport, writing and the life has much more meaning. I am other since then. Keep up the great work.

[Flowers]

Hi Dan

 

Penny has just dropped that you are now a moderator! Many congratulations and I know you will be a valuable addition to the team.

 

Flowers xxx

 

 

[Dan998]

Martina,

 

There has been a lot of improvement since getting off the drugs. I posted about it being a transition period where my brain is coming back to life again, as if awakening from a coma. I suppose psychiatric drugs are like a form of coma where your cognitive ability is severely stifled and your thought processes are interrupted so that you cannot experience the world as it really is. SSRI's are not selective. They create world devoid of all emotion, both good and bad.

 

I now have many days where I experience clarity of thought. I am able to think so clearly and have regained much of my desire to create. Then I have days like today, when I have difficulties finding my words and expressing my thoughts. Days like to today when I strive for perfectionism and become totally frustrated that I am unable to craft exquisite pieces of literature. I know I need to watch out for this; perfectionism is an entirely unrealistic expectation in a chaotic universe. I have to keep reminding myself that, "good enough really is good enough," and try to squash the perfectionist tendencies before they further develop into anxiety and depression. 

 

It's not just in my writing where perfectionism can be a problem. I quite often won't try new activities because of fear of failure. If I can't get it right first time, I'll quite often not bother with it. I'd love to pick up the guitar again. I was learning to play before withdrawal got in the way. But, instead of looking at it as a fun activity that that will occupy my brain and give me a sense of achievement as I learn new songs, I think, "What's the point, I'll never be able to play like Clapton or Hendrix." and so the guitar continues to gather dust in the loft.

 

Now that I am putting more distance between myself and these awful drugs. I think I'm finally discovering and working through the issues that were never previously addressed. Minor issues that were merely covered up with powerful psychiatric medication because my GP didn't have the time, knowledge or resources to refer me for effective treatment.

 

 

[Dan998]

5 hours ago, Flowers said:

Hi Dan

 

Penny has just dropped that you are now a moderator! Many congratulations and I know you will be a valuable addition to the team.

 

Flowers xxx

 

 

 

Thank you, Flowers.

 

It came as a massive surprise when I was asked to do it. SA has been such a supportive environment that I found it hard to refuse the opportunity to give something back to the community.

[LexAnger]

Such a wonderful update Dan! I am really happy for you that you are having more good days now! You deserve great day every day after such a fight! 

 

Thank you for stopping by my thread for the very needed support!

 

much love and a big hug!

lex

[LexAnger]

Just to add, get more of your beautiful mind bacK! And I'm very much looking forward to hearing the day you play the guitar again!!!!

[freespirit]

Dan, I'm happy to hear of all the improvements you're seeing. You've done very well.

 

thanks for stopping by my thread. I posted an answer to your questions there about tinnitus. But I'll answer here too. It resolved in waves and windows. I had tinnitus after a brain injury 9 years ago. When it finally resolved a few years later, I was still left with occasional bouts--following a lot of stress, lack of sleep, or exposure to loud sounds. I still have that. It generally goes away again within a day or 2. From WD, it didn't go away until this past year..maybe 6 months ago. I just realized one day it had been ages since I'd had it. Hope you see some improvement on that front too.

[Dan998]

There I was making the most of a very nice window. I was even tentatively daring to believe that I would continue to get a little bit better with each and every day. Thinking that the worst was behind me. Perhaps it would all be smooth sailing from now on and I would soon be back on the safety of dry land. How great would that be? And then totally out of the blue, and without any warning, I got absolutely slammed by a large and rather unpleasant wave. I say slammed, it was actually more like being repeatedly battered around the head by a gorilla with a baseball bat.

 

My waves usually have a similar pattern; anxiety, hypersensitivity to noise/ light, cognitive difficulties and insomnia. This one was a different beast altogether. I'd say that  It most closely resembled concussion or a TBI. The cog-fog was present, in fact this time it was especially bad, a state of confusion where nothing was really making any sense. I managed to get outside to the grocery store, but I just wandered around in a daze taking what seemed like hours trying to decide what to have for dinner. Too many things. Too many choices. I mean, do we really need 50 different types of rice? I watched some TV, but cant remember what I watched. I tried to come onto the forum to keep up with everyone, but it just seemed like I was reading words in no particular order and with no particular sense as to their meaning or intent.

 

The usual insomnia was replaced by needing to sleep way too much. Over the last week I have probably been getting 12 hours per night and then needing to nap during the day as well. I've even slept through the alarm clock which is something that I hadn't done since withdrawal started. The sleep wasn't at all restful either as it was punctuated with the most torturous nightmares that would have me waking up drenched in a cold sweat.

 

The tinnitus has also been really loud. Oddly, it has been mostly noticeable in the right ear, whereas it is usually of equal volume in both ears. This has been accompanied by thumping headaches that feel like my brain is trying to burst its way out of my skull. Dizziness that has made me overbalance and topple over a few times, luckily without too much injury just a few bruises. I've felt nauseous, had a bit of vomiting, and had rotten guts too. I'm sort of hopeful that this is my vestibular system making some long overdue adjustments. Fingers firmly crossed about that.

 

Basically, I've spent the last week hiding under my duvet and wishing the world would go away and leave me alone. I'm still not back to normal for withdrawal, everything still feels slightly off, but I am feeling a whole lot better than I was. 

[Dan998]

You know, I wish I didn't have to know about any of this stuff, the drugs, the withdrawal, none of it. I resent having to experience all this. Why me? I could have lived in blissful ignorance. I could have coped with being a bit shy, awkward and antisocial. I certainly didn't have an illness that needed to be medicated. I have too many regrets about decisions that were beyond my control at the time. It is what it is. It cannot be anything else. The arrow of time only travels in one direction.

 

Long before SSRI's scrambled my head, I used to read a lot of novels, mostly science fiction. This all feels uncannily like one of the many dystopian futures I have read about. Maybe Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-four or Huxley's Brave New World. The difference is that it is not a dystopia, it is my reality; and its not the future, it is the here and now. I'd think the whole thing was too far fetched if it wasn't actually happening. Where is all this leading? I hope there is a purpose to what has been thrust upon me. I hope something good comes out of it all. Nostalgia for a simpler time before all the technology came along and made the world too complicated.

 

Years ago they would take canaries into the coal mines. They were early warning systems. If the canaries fell off their perch and died this would mean that poisonous gas was present, the miners would leg it and make for the surface as quickly as possible. Anyone else feel like a canary within the deepest mines of psychiatry?

[LexAnger]

Oh Dan, I Am so sorry about this ever re-surfacing waves! I don't know how many times I was tricked by a short window and thinkin how you were thinking. These drugs play your mind in such a fake way but makes you truly believe what you feel at the moment only even you learned the same lesson million time. I can even picture how you felt wondering in a grocery store with a totally absent mind or more accurately empty head not knowing what to do or take. 

 

I'm glad you survived one more waves meaning one less to go over. I hope you will see a wide bright window in a moment that last long! Just keep going through the rest and you will end up on the real final land!

 

hugs,

lex

[JS11]

2 hours ago, Dan998 said:

You know, I wish I didn't have to know about any of this stuff, the drugs, the withdrawal, none of it. I resent having to experience all this. Why me? I could have lived in blissful ignorance. I could have coped with being a bit shy, awkward and antisocial. I certainly didn't have an illness that needed to be medicated. I have too many regrets about decisions that were beyond my control at the time. It is what it is. It cannot be anything else. The arrow of time only travels in one direction.

 

Long before SSRI's scrambled my head, I used to read a lot of novels, mostly science fiction. This all feels uncannily like one of the many dystopian futures I have read about. Maybe Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-four or Huxley's Brave New World. The difference is that it is not a dystopia, it is my reality; and its not the future, it is the here and now. I'd think the whole thing was too far fetched if it wasn't actually happening. Where is all this leading? I hope there is a purpose to what has been thrust upon me. I hope something good comes out of it all. Nostalgia for a simpler time before all the technology came along and made the world too complicated.

 

Years ago they would take canaries into the coal mines. They were early warning systems. If the canaries fell off their perch and died this would mean that poisonous gas was present, the miners would leg it and make for the surface as quickly as possible. Anyone else feel like a canary within the deepest mines of psychiatry?

Hi Dan, 

Nice to meet you.  I so agree with what you have expressed.  The canary is right.  Blissfully going into the caverns only to be sacrificed.  In some ways I feel more confused than ever.  At least there are other voices out there besides mine who are doubting what they are being told.  It makes you feel quite crazy when you are having symptoms from a prescription only to be told that it is because of something else.  We know better now, which may be some small victory, I suppose.

 

Take care and such good luck to you,

JS11

[JS11]

On 8/10/2017 at 9:59 AM, powerback said:

ye I agree here dan ,it just shows how clueless  people are ,they just don't have any idea .last week I came home and there was a small cut on my forehead and my partner made a big deal about it ,my mindfulness came in handy so as not to snap

Hi Powerback  and Dan,

It's lovely to meet you.  I was reading someone's post and stumbled across this.  Trying to learn etiquette on how to properly post, but what you wrote caught my eye--the sympathy you receive if you have a cold or another malady but withdrawal is so unknown,  even to those prescribing the medication,  that the reactions are non-existent, or people think you are making it up.  Doesn't make you feel much better does it.

 

Thank you for your thoughts, I hope you are both doing well.

take care,

JS11

[powerback]

9 hours ago, Dan998 said:

You know, I wish I didn't have to know about any of this stuff, the drugs, the withdrawal, none of it. I resent having to experience all this. Why me? I could have lived in blissful ignorance. I could have coped with being a bit shy, awkward and antisocial. I certainly didn't have an illness that needed to be medicated. I have too many regrets about decisions that were beyond my control at the time. It is what it is. It cannot be anything else. The arrow of time only travels in one direction.

 

Long before SSRI's scrambled my head, I used to read a lot of novels, mostly science fiction. This all feels uncannily like one of the many dystopian futures I have read about. Maybe Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-four or Huxley's Brave New World. The difference is that it is not a dystopia, it is my reality; and its not the future, it is the here and now. I'd think the whole thing was too far fetched if it wasn't actually happening. Where is all this leading? I hope there is a purpose to what has been thrust upon me. I hope something good comes out of it all. Nostalgia for a simpler time before all the technology came along and made the world too complicated.

 

Years ago they would take canaries into the coal mines. They were early warning systems. If the canaries fell off their perch and died this would mean that poisonous gas was present, the miners would leg it and make for the surface as quickly as possible. Anyone else feel like a canary within the deepest mines of psychiatry?

sorry for you dan dealing with this wave dig deep ,we are definitely the canneries in the mine .I read a while ago that the actual drug trial starts when we take them from the doctors and then the research builds

.I don't want to make yours or my own depression worse but the reality of human nature and especially the modern capitalistic western world is extremely destructive and depressive .the positive in this experience for me is that when I'm better I will be confident in every decision I make because it will be thoroughly thought out ,a medical doctor will not get within 10 feet of me .[I lie I was out for a walk on Wednesday and my doctor that prescribed the meds walked past me and we said hello ,I'm proud of myself that I can treat him like a fellow human being and not hate him ]he is just a big pharma puppet after all .

I was only listening to a George Orwell documentary last night ,he really did have the reality of society and its ills down to a tee .

Take care and wishing you a window soon .

PB

[Martina23]

12 hours ago, Dan998 said:

You know, I wish I didn't have to know about any of this stuff, the drugs, the withdrawal, none of it. I resent having to experience all this. Why me? I could have lived in blissful ignorance. I could have coped with being a bit shy, awkward and antisocial. I certainly didn't have an illness that needed to be medicated. I have too many regrets about decisions that were beyond my control at the time. It is what it is. It cannot be anything else. The arrow of time only travels in one direction.

 

Long before SSRI's scrambled my head, I used to read a lot of novels, mostly science fiction. This all feels uncannily like one of the many dystopian futures I have read about. Maybe Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-four or Huxley's Brave New World. The difference is that it is not a dystopia, it is my reality; and its not the future, it is the here and now. I'd think the whole thing was too far fetched if it wasn't actually happening. Where is all this leading? I hope there is a purpose to what has been thrust upon me. I hope something good comes out of it all. Nostalgia for a simpler time before all the technology came along and made the world too complicated.

 

Years ago they would take canaries into the coal mines. They were early warning systems. If the canaries fell off their perch and died this would mean that poisonous gas was present, the miners would leg it and make for the surface as quickly as possible. Anyone else feel like a canary within the deepest mines of psychiatry?

Dan, maybe we had the “privilage“ to go through this ordeal, that we can change it. Or maybe it was necessary for our growth as personalities.

 

I dont know.But this horrendous experience had for me also positives, if for nothing than for finding out my full potential, that there are other ways to live and to have still time to change my life.

 

And by the way, just grab the guitar if you like, you can still play like Hendrix and by the way you shouldnt even play like Hendrix, you should play like Dan998

[Shep]

12 hours ago, Dan998 said:

Long before SSRI's scrambled my head, I used to read a lot of novels, mostly science fiction. This all feels uncannily like one of the many dystopian futures I have read about. Maybe Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-four or Huxley's Brave New World. The difference is that it is not a dystopia, it is my reality; and its not the future, it is the here and now. I'd think the whole thing was too far fetched if it wasn't actually happening. Where is all this leading? I hope there is a purpose to what has been thrust upon me. I hope something good comes out of it all. Nostalgia for a simpler time before all the technology came along and made the world too complicated.

 

Dan, have you ever read any of Neil Postman's writings? You may enjoy his work, as he writes about exactly what you mention here. 

 

He wrote the book Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business

 

Here's a short video which quotes from the Forward of this book:

 

Neil Postman - Amusing Ourselves to Death [Foreword] - video (3 minutes)

 

Sometimes it helps to know you aren't alone in these thoughts. In fact, this book is a best seller on Amazon now, even though the book was originally published in 1985. Lots of people are thinking the same thing. 

[apace41]

6 minutes ago, Shep said:

Sometimes it helps to know you aren't alone in these thoughts. In fact, this book is a best seller on Amazon now, even though the book was originally published in 1985. Lots of people are thinking the same thing. 

 

Chilling in its accuracy.  I would add a slight nuance, however, in that what is happening is that we have created a society of distraction and complacency that has left a huge void where personal responsibility used to be.  Into this void have marched the profiteering corporations in places like pharma and agriculture beholden only to the almighty bottom line.  As we sit idly by they strip us of our ability to regain that personal responsibility by making us sick with things like GMOs, roundup and psych meds.  We understandably fear the destruction of natural forces like Harvey and Irma but are blind to the even greater destruction taking place at the hands of business concerns which are largely indifferent to human life.

[Shep]

24 minutes ago, apace41 said:

 I would add a slight nuance, however, in that what is happening is that we have created a society of distraction and complacency that has left a huge void where personal responsibility used to be.  Into this void have marched the profiteering corporations in places like pharma and agriculture beholden only to the almighty bottom line.  

 

Andy, in two sentences, you just described how the corporate coup d'etat emerged. A "void" concept. Very well worded. 

 

54 minutes ago, Martina23 said:

And by the way, just grab the guitar if you like, you can still play like Hendrix and by the way you shouldnt even play like Hendrix, you should play like Dan998

 

Dan, I've been using music therapy to get through withdrawal. Martina is so wise. Please take her advice.

 

During withdrawal, I didn't even aim to play well. I just aimed "to play". And that's a powerful concept during something as brutal as withdrawal. 

[Dan998]

21 hours ago, LexAnger said:

These drugs play your mind in such a fake way but makes you truly believe what you feel at the moment only even you learned the same lesson million time

 

So true, Lex. I'm trying to get into the habit of not writing about waves whilst I'm in one. It's all too easy to catastrophise and believe that the present wave is worse than any other. What I've noticed is that no two waves are exactly the same. Take this one for example. The absence of anxiety  fear* has made it almost tolerable despite the intense physical symptoms *(I'm also going to get into the habit of not using psychiatric diagnoses to describe an emotion)

 

When we're in a wave it is difficult to remember what a window looks like and it is all too easy to surrender to the false belief that we will never see one again. But, without fail, 100% of the time, we survive the present wave and a new window opens up for us. I've lost count how many times this has happened, but I'm still always surprised when it does. 

 

22 hours ago, LexAnger said:

I can even picture how you felt wondering in a grocery store with a totally absent mind or more accurately empty head not knowing what to do or take. 

 

All of us here have been to the grocery store with an empty head. I watched a documentary about the link between choice and emotion, I think it was by Dr David Eagleman (who is well worth searching for online as he explains the workings of the brain in a very accessible manner without too much sciencey terminology). It turns out that emotion plays a massive part in any decision we take. If the emotional parts of the brain are malfunctioning, which they seem to be in withdrawal, we can really struggle. Sure we can use logic to inform our decisions, but this takes a long time to process and certain things cannot be chosen with logic. Choices about style and personal preference can be almost impossible without an emotional input  - Do I prefer a blue shirt or a white shirt? Do I like those brown shoes? Will the hot and spicy rice taste nicer than the sweet and sour rice. 

 

One less wave to go. That's a nice positive way to think of it. 

 

[Dan998]

Hi, JS11. Nice to meet you too

20 hours ago, JS11 said:

It makes you feel quite crazy when you are having symptoms from a prescription only to be told that it is because of something else.  We know better now, which may be some small victory, I suppose.

 

The Propaganda Engine created by Big Pharma had me doubting myself for years. I genuinely believed I had a mental illness and every cold turkey attempt would confirm this. I believed the lies about the drugs being the only thing that would protect my sanity. It wasn't until I discovered SA and was pointed towards the work of Peter Breggin that I learnt the truth - The drugs may be my problem. A lightbulb moment and a true awakening.

 

I now work on the simple assumption that if I'm not bleeding and nothing is obviously broken then it must be a withdrawal symptom. 

 

Unfortunately, we are going to be the tip of the iceberg. There are countless millions out there who will also have to eventually walk this trail that we are blazing. There will be doubters and haters. There will be those spellbound to their drugs that won't want to hear our truth. But, getting that truth out to the wider population will be our real victory.

[Dan998]

It's getting late now. Thanks to f.lux my screen is slowly growing more and more orange. Time to get horizontal and stare at the back of me eyelids. I'll finish the replies tomorrow. It seems like a lot of you have experienced or are interested in these theories about awakening. I'm sure there's an off-topic thread about it somewhere or other that deserves to be resurrected from obscurity.

[JS11]

Hello again Dan998,

One of these times, I will figure out how to quote a small portion of a post rather than the whole darn thing....I am going to hold onto to your wise words, "..If I'm not bleeding and nothing is obviously broken then it must be a withdrawal symptom."  

 

Yes, indeed, many pioneers here.  Truly amazing.  And, like many things, it can all begin with one voice.  Look at what has happened here.  I am so very grateful to have found this site...Cannot imagine where I would be, even in this short time, without it.  It does help assuage the doubt and second guessing.  Strength in numbers and sadly growing, but growing in strength as well.

 

take care and I hope you are very well,

JS

[Flowers]

Hi Dan

 

So sorry you are suffering again after quite a nice window. It would be so much easier to know what to expect when in a window but having different symptoms is always traumatic and so annoying.

 

I have been in a shop too during a wave just trying to get my head together enough to pick something off the shelf - once I nearly walked out without paying so bad was my concentration. Imagine having to explain to the police that I am suffering WD - I don't think so!!

 

You are not free of the drug and it's effects yet but at least are not taking them anymore so are on the right road. Lets hope you get more windows than waves as time goes on.

 

Thinking of you.

 

 

Flowers xxx

 

 

[Dan998]

Thanks, PB.

 

On 9/8/2017 at 10:03 AM, powerback said:

I read a while ago that the actual drug trial starts when we take them from the doctors and then the research builds

 

All of us are the experiment. Science has very little understanding about how the brain works. Their knowledge really is scratching at the surface. They know even less about the mechanism of action for psych drugs. The original tests were all short term, around 6 weeks. Who knows what effect being on them for 10, 20 or 30 years is having on our brains.

 

"It is interesting to note that most of these psychopharmacological discoveries were accidental; that is, the drug companies were developing medications to treat other medical illnesses and just happened to find that the drugs could affect psychiatric symptoms. Also, these discoveries were made empirically; they were not developed as an outgrowth of a particular theory of neurochemical dysfunction, nor was the mechanism of action at all known. What was evident was that the medications worked and
were far superior to any previous treatments for severe mental illness." - Handbook of Clinical Psychopharmacology for Therapists. 

 

On 9/8/2017 at 10:03 AM, powerback said:

I don't want to make yours or my own depression worse but the reality of human nature and especially the modern capitalistic western world is extremely destructive and depressive

 

In my opinion, the increasing rates of mental illness is a symptom of our broken society. People are waking up and getting angry and this is being misinterpreted as an illness. It's rather convenient that 'the cure' has the effect of creating a mental prison for potential revolutionaries and dissenters. I am optimistic that there will be an inevitable change of ideology. There has to be, because the capitalist system totally breaks down when there are no consumers to pay for goods and services. When automation takes away all our jobs, how will anyone be able to afford to buy all the products that are made by the robots? The system will self destruct. Hopefully it will be peaceful.

 

The younger generation seem to have a grasp of how bad things could get. Okay, some of them are content to play Angry Birds and post pictures of cute kittens on facebook, but there are also a significant proportion who are politically motivated enough to actually make a difference. We just have to nurture them and protect their minds from being polluted by toxic medications.