Vonnegutjunky: Paxil 10 mg for 8 years - partial wean with reinstatement

[Vonnegutjunky]

I think the magnesium or omega 3 gave me anxiety - it's lessened today and I quit the supplemtns - can anyone explain what a kindling effect is?

[oskcajga]

I think the magnesium or omega 3 gave me anxiety - it's lessened today and I quit the supplemtns - can anyone explain what a kindling effect is?

From my understanding the kindling reaction is a more profound neuroadaptive response upon a subsequent dosage of a medication or a drug of some sort.  So one may take a drug once, and then quit and g through the withdrawal period and fully recover - but if one were to re-take the drug, the brain would react more profoundly the second time, making the neurodapatations more pronounced and the subsequent withdrawal reactions will be more severe.

 

I don't know if this applies to SSRIS or not.

[Vonnegutjunky]

Thanks osk- was worried this might be happening to me but I don't think so- I am going to therapy weekly and there was a moment today at work and since, that I have felt like my old self- I am going to try to feel better with therapy before I taper- doc said if I don't feel better and want to try a different drug before I taper she is willing to give me lexapro but warned its going to be just as difficult if not worse to stop- I am worried I may have to take meds until I retire because I cannot go through a withdrawal feeling how I do now -

 

it's been 3 mos almost since my 20mg reinstatement and I have yet to feel some semblance of stability - also she took blood to test my hormones to see if that's creating an issue

 

- I am lucky in that I have never had a side effect from Paxil- no significant weight gain or sexual side effects - probably because I have always been on 10mg - now I have loud ear ringing and visual snow but that's about it- but the anxiety can be horrible for a few days then I feel ok-

 

I don't take anything else for anxiety which is why I tried the magnesium- chamomile just makes me sleepy and kinda depressed -

 

I can't tell if the Paxil is working but I am willing to try therapy to stabilize before going to another medication - and I will not increase the dose on this one -

 

I have started exercising again too so hopefully that will help

 

Thanks everyone ❤️

[oskcajga]

Thanks osk- was worried this might be happening to me but I don't think so- I am going to therapy weekly and there was a moment today at work and since, that I have felt like my old self- I am going to try to feel better with therapy before I taper- doc said if I don't feel better and want to try a different drug before I taper she is willing to give me lexapro but warned its going to be just as difficult if not worse to stop- I am worried I may have to take meds until I retire because I cannot go through a withdrawal feeling how I do now -

 

it's been 3 mos almost since my 20mg reinstatement and I have yet to feel some semblance of stability - also she took blood to test my hormones to see if that's creating an issue

 

- I am lucky in that I have never had a side effect from Paxil- no significant weight gain or sexual side effects - probably because I have always been on 10mg - now I have loud ear ringing and visual snow but that's about it- but the anxiety can be horrible for a few days then I feel ok-

 

I don't take anything else for anxiety which is why I tried the magnesium- chamomile just makes me sleepy and kinda depressed -

 

I can't tell if the Paxil is working but I am willing to try therapy to stabilize before going to another medication - and I will not increase the dose on this one -

 

I have started exercising again too so hopefully that will help

 

Thanks everyone ❤️

 

In my opinion, I think if you're going to switch drugs you should go to prozac, not lexapro.  Why on earth would your doctor suggest lexapro?  That doesn't make any sense to me.   Lexapro would provide you with absolutely no strategic advantages over prozac, and would put you in the same position as you are in now.   Both drugs are SSRIs with relatively short half lives that are notoriously difficult to stop taking.

 

Can you explain why your doctor would suggest such a thing?

[Vonnegutjunky]

The reason is because lexapro is so sedating - Prozac is very stimulating- she said Paxil is even more stimulating than lexapro- my my dad and his sister and one of his brothers are all on celexa ( similar to lexapro) and they all tolerate it very well- there really is a major panic and anxiety disorder in my family- not really depression too much-

 

my anxiety started when I was a toddler - I remember my first anxiety attack and my first panic attack was in the 2nd grade - this is a genetic issue for me and I have short serotonin alleles -

 

but I need therapy, not medication- but I can't stop meds now - my reaction to them is extremely sensitive- I have to work and pay bills - I have a kid who depends on me - so if that means switching to another med to stabilize before I taper then I will do what I have to do- I don't want to live my life feeling like this - but hopefully I can stabilize with therapy and then taper

Fingers crossed!!

[oskcajga]

The reason is because lexapro is so sedating - Prozac is very stimulating- she said Paxil is even more stimulating than lexapro- my my dad and his sister and one of his brothers are all on celexa ( similar to lexapro) and they all tolerate it very well- there really is a major panic and anxiety disorder in my family- not really depression too much-

 

my anxiety started when I was a toddler - I remember my first anxiety attack and my first panic attack was in the 2nd grade - this is a genetic issue for me and I have short serotonin alleles -

 

but I need therapy, not medication- but I can't stop meds now - my reaction to them is extremely sensitive- I have to work and pay bills - I have a kid who depends on me - so if that means switching to another med to stabilize before I taper then I will do what I have to do- I don't want to live my life feeling like this - but hopefully I can stabilize with therapy and then taper

Fingers crossed!!

 

The only reason I ask is because switching to different meds has a lot of risks involved.  In my opinion, if you're going to take a risk you might as well risk switching to a drug that has a longer half life.  That way - if you accidentally miss a dose or something, you won't become totally disabled overnight.  With prozac you can not take the medication for days and days and days and not even notice the effect.   For some sick reason, these drug companies haven't figured out a way to make these drugs have a reasonable half life, so many many many of them stay in your system for only 1-2 days.  Making a missed dose catastrophic - and making the withdrawal reaction very pronounced if you attempt to stop too abruptly.  The brain cannot adapt to a change in 12 hours, that's just very difficult.

 

I'm sorry if this sounds rude - but your doctor is mostly full of crap - the SSRI's aren't more calming or activating than one another - they react profoundly different in all people - generalizing that prozac is more activating than lexapro is just not true.  That may be based on that doctor's clinical experience, but these doctors really know very little and don't see the whole picture.  The collective wisdom on this website is more knowledgeable than any psychiatrist.  Any good doctor will admit that no one has any idea what these drugs do - and any doctor that claims mastery over them is, in my opinion, a serious danger.  All of these drugs (the SSRIs) can cause profound anxiety in anyone that takes them.

 

That being said, If you're functioning on paxil at your current dose, it might be best to just not do anything at all.  It sounds like you're stabilizing, and functioning at a reasonably high level - it might be wise not to risk getting an adverse reaction due to a drug switch at this point. 

 

Love and hugs,

Osk

[Vonnegutjunky]

I appreciate your insight and I don't find you to be rude at all- i am greatful that you have taken time to give me import to my situation- i am fearful all around, staying on or switching or going off -

 

yes I can currently function and hopefully I will continue to improve - that's why I'm trying therapy and exercise before I make a decision- and I am looking at all of my options for the least rocky way to get healthy again-

 

I want to be med free but I may have to accept that until my kid is old enough to take care of herself I might need a medication- one that works - I wish I would have taken this taper slower - I think I would have been ok because my windows and waves started immediately- I just didn't know what was happening to me at the time -

Gotta work tomorrow! Got to get my syllabus finished! Hopefully I am distracted enough in class tomorrow to not think of all this!

Xoxox

[Altostrata]

Paxil is not particularly stimulating; in fact, it is the only SSRI that is also an anticholinergic and is known for being somewhat sedating.

 

As Osk said, Celexa, Prozac, Lexapro are not particularly stimulating or sedating. However, if you are a doctor who tends to prescribe inappropriately high dosages, you might see reactions that lead you to conclude those drugs are stimulating.

 

If you have internalized any advice from your doctor, you might do yourself a favor by closely examining your assumptions. What do you mean by a "medication that works"? What do you expect will compensate for withdrawal syndrome?

 

Have you read What is withdrawal syndrome?
 
The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

Have you discussed your negativity towards yourself with your therapist? There are a lot of people here who have a lot of problems, but your posts are striking in their devaluation of everything you do.

[nz11]

That being said, If you're functioning on paxil at your current dose, it might be best to just not do anything at all.  It sounds like you're stabilizing, and functioning at a reasonably high level - it might be wise not to risk getting an adverse reaction due to a drug switch at this point. 

I agree with this.

 

there really is a major panic and anxiety disorder in my family- not really depression too much-..my anxiety started when I was a toddler - I remember my first anxiety attack and my first panic attack was in the 2nd grade - this is a genetic issue for me and I have short serotonin alleles -

I have to say i dont know so much. and i am sorry that your family members are all on this stuff too. A great book worth getting is Peter Breggin, Psychiatric drug withdrawal.

 

I agree with osk imo the best thing to do is just be patient for a couple of months and just bide your time until the dust settles and it will.

Then when stable start a slow taper look closely at MLG or Brassmonkey or songbird and see how they are doing it and they are doing it and Brass and SB will be free soon. Dont think oh im different i can go faster than 10% or whatever to start with. Follow the instructions here to a tee. MLG actually started off at 2.5% tapering for the first few months. These are not forever drugs (in my opinion they are for never drugs).

if you go slow as rec you can do it , have a life and be free in due course.

 

I personally dont think switching is the way to go here stick with the devil you know and attack it again from an informed position which you are now in.

Dont worry about this minor set back MLG had 3 failed attempts. 

 

You dont need to wait until your child is old enough to taper you hopefully will be able to start tapering again in a few months.

[brassmonkey]

Hi VJ--  I was looking at your signature and if I am reading it correctly you've been on paxil for around nine years now.  The nine to ten year mark is where many people, myself included, start running into tolerance problems with paxil.  In my case it just felt like it wasn't working any longer while in other cases it can feel like full on WD.  There are several options available, none of which are pleasant. 1) do nothing and continue to feel bad and slowly worse as the tolerance increases. 2) switch to another drug which usually involves WD symptoms from the first and startup problems from the second. 3) Up-dose which may or may not help and will dig you in deeper when you start to tolerate that level. I did this twice, biggest mistakes of my life. 4) Taper slowly off.  Tapering while in tolerance is no fun, but as the taper proceeds the body recognizes what is happening and adjusts to the idea.  If done slowly the symptoms can be kept to a minimum and cause little disruption to ones life.

 

The worst thing one can do is to allow themselves to be afraid of the WD symptoms. Being afraid of them puts them in control and they will take full advantage of the situation.  They are an unfortunate part of this whole process and the best we can do is take steps to minimize them and then live as best as possible, despite them.

[Vonnegutjunky]

Well it's has been about 3 months since I increased my dose - I am starting to stablize - which is good- at this point a new meds does not seem necessary- so I will continue working with my therapist and after some time and work- I have a lot to work out- I will begin a 5% taper with 6 week holds, until I get down to 10 mg - at that point I will wait a year and do mapleleafgirls taper, but I will do those at 12 week holds, instead of her 30 - I am doing that because it took me 12 weeks to stabilize after this last failed attempt, I feel that since I am older it is taking my brain longer to adjust - that will put me at about 12 years to get off- better late than never is how I feel- I want to do this right this time - who knows maybe by then they will find something to help with discontinuation symptoms

[LoveandLight]

Hah maybe they will!

 

Glad your stabilising - great news

[Vonnegutjunky]

Thanks love and light ???? I am still ver dumbfounded and traumatized by all of this- especially the fact that it took 3 months for the medication to even remotely begin to make me feel better!!!! After I increased my dose in May I felt like I was living in hell- I did become suicidal- and even prayed many nights that God would give me cancer and just take me ( I promised myself I would never take my own life as I have children) however if they had not been here there is no doubt in my mind I would have committed suicide - I could just not take another day of feeling so alien/ strange/ worried/ preoccupied

I still don't know if I'm on the med - I wait hourly for my symptoms to return- I also know that complete tachyphalyxis is imminent - so I really have no choice but to wean from this medication- I really believe i will become treatment resistant if I switch up meds - lucky I have a great therapist who is also a psychiatric nurse so she knows about wd and I see her every week- time to practice coping skills!!!

[oskcajga]

that will put me at about 12 years to get off-

 

In my opinion - I honestly think that's excessive and unnecessarily slow.  It's not like you're feeling great right now and want to stay feeling great the whole taper.  That being said I think a 5% taper is a safe way to start just to see how your body adjusts to the dropped dose.  Please keep in touch and let us know how you do once you start the taper.

[Vonnegutjunky]

Well I still don't feel stable as I keep going up and down emotionally from day to day - I updosed in May - it will be 3 mos in about a week- I don't know if I should wait another month or start decreasing today- I don't feel good enough to taper, but I'm not sure at this point if I ever will- any suggestions would be nice - thank you

[Vonnegutjunky]

Still feeling awful- all I want to do is lay in bed and sleep - I have anxiety all the time and sometimes feeling like I will burst into tears for no reason at all- I will have a couple of good days here and there; I have been on 20mg Paxil for 3 mos now - I am worried the meds have stopped working - I don't know how long to give it to feel stable again- I don't know what to do- has anyone else withdrawn while they were unstable? I need help????????????????????????????

[Vonnegutjunky]

So after doing a lot of reading on others threads I realized I'm having windows and waves - my question is this (hopefully a moderator will reply)

 

How do we know it's windows and waves and not tachyphylaxis?

 

I'm so worried the meds are never going to kick in and stabilize me

 

Also I would like to add - im so super angry that I missed a while year of my life because of this crap-

My doc and therapist want me to come off the drug as they are convinced it is no longer working - my attitude changes multiple times a week on weather or not it's working -

[LoveandLight]

Vonnet...just my two cents..

 

I've also wasted a year trying to get stable by going up and down dose trying to find the right one...but that is just more instability and now I'm well and truly stuck..that's after being on this site and not heeding the advice. So, I would wait, wait, wait and just get stable as possible. I heard it took some people 9 months to get to a stable point.

 

Good luck x

[Vonnegutjunky]

Thank you love -

 

Your doing well now on the Prozac?

[LoveandLight]

No, not doing well!

[Vonnegutjunky]

Oh no:( in so sorry to hear that do you think you will stick it out and try to stablize on it or go back to your old med? That's horrible that your not doing well- Prozac is supposed to be an easier ad to get off of

[LoveandLight]

I've no idea right now..I have big cortisol am so sertraline withdrawal coming through wasn't stable on sert either but went up/down a lot..whatever I do I'm dreading it..

 

So I'm on here warning everyone else not to do what I did!

[Vonnegutjunky]

I thank you for your experience and will heed your warning - thank you so much for looking out for others after you have not been doing not so well

[LoveandLight]

No problem...

[Vonnegutjunky]

Everyone :

I created a Facebook private group - search for "SA Members Only" and I will accept you - this group will be private and no one can see you on it outside of the group

[Vonnegutjunky]

Here is the link to the group https://www.facebook.com/groups/1644493302486833/

[Vonnegutjunky]

I have a question - is it possible that I am still in protracted wd after 3 mos of double my original dose?? Also does anyone know why my doubled my dose my windows got worse? In the sense of not feeling as good as before?

Also does anyone get scared when they are in a window, fearing the next wave? I know one will come and I am so afraid of it - I hate it so much - and my waves last for days

 

Also thank this board - thank you - I am not going to get on another medication! It will further just destabilize my system- ugh I feel so stuck right now eating to stabilize

I reinstated back in January, then increased my dose in May - 8 months and I am still not stable on any level-

I don't take any other meds, do drugs, or have any other diagnosis except for perimenopause -

I started back on omega 3 again today - just 2 per day -

[oskcajga]

I have a question - is it possible that I am still in protracted wd after 3 mos of double my original dose?? Also does anyone know why my doubled my dose my windows got worse? In the sense of not feeling as good as before?

Also does anyone get scared when they are in a window, fearing the next wave? I know one will come and I am so afraid of it - I hate it so much - and my waves last for days

 

Also thank this board - thank you - I am not going to get on another medication! It will further just destabilize my system- ugh I feel so stuck right now eating to stabilize

I reinstated back in January, then increased my dose in May - 8 months and I am still not stable on any level-

I don't take any other meds, do drugs, or have any other diagnosis except for perimenopause -

I started back on omega 3 again today - just 2 per day -

 

I've stated my opinion on your situation in previous posts.  I'm sorry you continue to suffer.

 

[Vonnegutjunky]

Thanks osk- I re-read an old post from July 20th and it feels like I wrote it years ago

Seriously my sense of time is so distorted!

 

I know it's probably wd but my gosh after 8 mos and I didn't even fully come off the drug!!!!!

I saw a video tonight about benzos and how they affect GABA - I wonder if ssri's do the same thing - from what I read

I feel like I am in benzo wd - never took one in my life -

 

I wonder if when I increased Paxil I further downregulated already down receptors

That will probably take my brain a longtime to come back from

 

I have no plans to do anything medication wise for a year -

I hope I don't have to suffer like this for a year -

But I'm not trying to mess with my system anymore

Stupid Paxil.

[Altostrata]

I'm pretty sure I answered this question before. It can take many months for your nervous system to settle down from being upset by withdrawal. Taking more of the drug doesn't fix this.
 
See What is withdrawal syndrome? Read all the listed topics so you understand this better.

[Vonnegutjunky]

Just an update - yesterday and today I feel about 80-90% normal- I'm sure it's a window and I am bracing for that wave, but it's genuinely the first time since I've updosed 3 mos ago that I can say I feel normal! Much more myself -

 

The last 3 months were unbelievable -

The worst feelings I have ever had

Praying for cancer to come and quickly take me

Or a car accident

But I made it - it still feels surreal- the feelings that come

They are indescribable

So just an update - in sure I will be back soon begging for advice - but today I feel good

[servadei]

I am glad you're feeling better! I'm 42 days off since my last pill and in a 2 weeks wave. Hope I will feel relief like you!

[Vonnegutjunky]

You will servadei - just takes time

[servadei]

Time also becomes distortes in DP/DR. Well at least it's much faster 0o

[Altostrata]

VJ, mark the windows so you'll be more realistic about the waves. They will pass.

[Vonnegutjunky]

Will do alto- I even thought about making a video of myself so I don't forget -

it's easy to remember how bad i feel during a window - but when your in that wave it feels like you've never been well -

 

I'm on day 5 of my window and feeling better each day- feeling like a taper is a possibility in the future!

 

Every doc should be forced to take this med and ct after 3 mos -