success Hibari: tapering Remeron and want to start tapering Lamictal

[Hibari]

You are the best Free.  You are always encouraging even when I repeat the same fears and themes in my posts.

 

Thanks for listening. 

[ten0275]

hibari,

really appreciated your insight on my thread. congratulations on being down at 3.6 (while alternating the lamictal, wow!). much respect, my friend.

and YES! thank you for asking me that, because that is precisely how i feel. the lower i get, the more my body seems to fight with the drug as you put it. it's like even in the holding, while stable, my body is really rebelling against the stuff. in some ways, it (the mirt) seems to be gaining potency after such a lengthy time of seeming to lose potency. i think it's going to be ok in the end, but what a lean-tissue burn to get to the finish line.

once again, thank you so much for your kind words.

hang in there and stay in touch,

dave

[Hibari]

You too Dave! 

[Hibari]

It's been an interesting time lately.  In the past 3 weeks I have gotten hit in the head with a standing divider screen, come down with the flu and then this past weekend my back went out-one of the moments where you bend over and can't straighten up.   I also made medication cuts about 8 days ago, which has been going okay except for some DP.   

 

I shared with some SA friends that I had to ask my body what it was trying to tell me.  What I got was more self-care and when ready, attention to building up my physical strength.   I have noticed this pattern of wanting to make up for lost time even though I'm not quite up to it.  And in reality, I can't make up the lost time-it's lost.  All I can really do is claim my present and deal with what is in front of me. 

 

have expressed to Free many times about the lessons learned from wd and I mean the positive lessons.   All the underlying reasons I fell into a depression have had to be faced and they continue through this process.  The main ones being over doing (too many activities) , over giving (much better on this one), over working (or at least not working smartly) and not enough rest.   I also need more pleasure in terms of music, theatre and art.  I have to consciously make room for all those things that uplift my spirit and make sure I don't approach it with the same fervor as I have other things.

 

What a surprising time. 

[Santino]

Hey Hibari...

 

I really feel sorry for you difficult time currently but if you check your signature you will know that you are MAKING IT. Slowly slowly but you are reaching the finish line. And to imagine that during all this time you have been working and living your life with all the responsibilities that it brings about it is really remarkable. You re surely an example for us who are lagging behind and get afraid that this process will never end. 

 

Keep going Hibari... even if you are having bad times remember that this is just another bad day and the sun will shine again. On the bad days think yourself as an hero in the making... there are many people who submit to the feelings and they go for more drugs and of course more problems in the long run but you are keeping steady, getting friendly with the suffering days and sacrificing for a better tomorrow.

 

I KNOW I KNOW... it is easier said than done, (tell you a secret i have two and half good days in a row that's why i am positive today... :-)))  so stick with it buddy. Better days ahead..

[Hibari]

Hey Hibari...

 

I really feel sorry for you difficult time currently but if you check your signature you will know that you are MAKING IT. Slowly slowly but you are reaching the finish line. And to imagine that during all this time you have been working and living your life with all the responsibilities that it brings about it is really remarkable. You re surely an example for us who are lagging behind and get afraid that this process will never end. 

 

Keep going Hibari... even if you are having bad times remember that this is just another bad day and the sun will shine again. On the bad days think yourself as an hero in the making... there are many people who submit to the feelings and they go for more drugs and of course more problems in the long run but you are keeping steady, getting friendly with the suffering days and sacrificing for a better tomorrow.

 

I KNOW I KNOW... it is easier said than done, (tell you a secret i have two and half good days in a row that's why i am positive today... :-)))  so stick with it buddy. Better days ahead..

Thank you Santino.  It does feel very slow.

[Hibari]

I am trying to figure something out but maybe it is what it is.

 

In order to cut my Lamictal more accurately, I had my psychiatrist prescribe 5mg tablets.  They are chewable, I think very similar to Solitabs.   The thing I am trying to figure out is did I create a unexpected cut when I switched.  I am now on 21.25mgs of Lamicatal.  I use three 5mgs tablets and then have divided my regular 25mgs tablets so that I have a 6.25 piece.  

 

Have other people experienced a difference between Solitabs and regular pills?  I remember when I was on Klonipin my 2nd psychiatrist switched me to Solitabls and I didn't like them so I switched back.  

[AliG]

Hi Hibari.

I also need more pleasure in terms of music, theatre and art.  I have to consciously make room for all those things that uplift my spirit and make sure I don't approach it with the same fervor as I have other things.

 

I love this sentiment. I think in withdrawal we have to at least try to look to those pleasurable moments that are uplifting and make life worthwhile. 

I think it helps us to navigate this process.

You're doing great !

Ali

[Santino]

HI HIbari

 

Thanks for your assistance on my topic.

 

About your question my first batch of Remeron was Soltabs after that i could not find the Soltabs so i changed to hard tablet. Right now i mix them with water and draw the amount i need with a syringe. The first time i changed from Soltabs to tablet i could not sleep at all during the whole night i remember so most probably there might be some difference in the way body assimilate the drug. Anyway that is from my experience i am not knowledgeable enough as many people in here to give you a correct answer.

 

I am following your progress as well at your topic. How about the stress levels are you able to handle stress currently...?? For me it seems like an impossible task on some days and i tend to worry. I can not quarrel or debate regarding issues. Is there any possibility for us to handle stress or just try to ignore as much as possible. I am only 40 years old with a wife and two kids and i can not really have the luxury to avoid high stress levels. I am surprised at my self for being functional up to now but these lower levels of Remeron are really difficult to handle. The fatigue is tooo much. Does it continue the same the lower we go or at lower levels you do not feel that much fatigue...?

 

Good luck HIbari... slowly slowly you are doing it.

[ChessieCat]

Here's one of the links:  feeling-better-green-smoothies

 

and another:  juicing

[Hibari]

Thank you JC, I will check out those links.   Had a great juice yesterday with ginger in it and I loved it.  

 

I am feeling so tired of this process today.   I am really dragging and it's not so much the mood right now but the not feeling well.  My mood is actually in reaction to not feeling well physically.  I haven't felt really well for almost two years and it's hard to remember that I can or will.  I feel my age, my weight, my stiffness and fuzzy thinking.  I feel today that this has dragged out too much and is working against me at this point.   Not sure if I will go all the way down to nearly nothing on the Remeron.  May make the leap at 1mg-have to gauge.

[AliG]

Hi Hibari.  Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner but I just got back from the beach . I had a sunny break.    Thanks for your lovely words on my thread. I appreciate that.

 

Chessie has given you some links :  Are you juicing or doing smoothies ?  Once I know that I can give you some more tips.

 

Don't forget that if you had C/T 'ed you would not be feeling well either and if you were still on full dose - that would be heading progressively downhill too.

You're doing well. Not long now. Don't leap off - you are at the pointy end and need to tread carefully. Too many have made that mistake. Don't ruin all your good work.

Hugs,

Ali

[Hibari]

Thank you Ali.  Love the phrase "pointy end".   I am just starting to juice, had one yesterday and will have another today.  

 

I just want to know that I can feel healthy again.  I envy my friends who wake up with their health.  I know that every has their stuff in life and that we all balance life issues.  But when I don't have my physical health underneath me, it makes it so much harder.

[AliG]

I totally get it and agree . You will get there. It's a process but one that I'm sure you will at some point come to the end of and see the light of everyday , normal health and functioning. I'm starting to see it and I know you will too. 

 

I'm glad you're juicing. My favorite basic juice is carrot / apple / ginger.  Carrot has just about all the vitamins , so it's a good base.

I bought the Hurom slow juicer, which retains enzymes and nutrients. 

 

Let me know if you want more information.

You really have done so well.

Ali

[Hibari]

I am loving apple, beet, carrot and ginger!  Trying to have a juice instead of caffeine in the afternoon.

[Hibari]

I know I am close to the finish line on one of my meds but I just feel so discouraged.   I can't believe how I wake up every morning in a stupor and low mood until the mid afternoon.  Both my medications knock me out at night and I think it takes most of the day for the drugs to work there way through my system.  I have been taking Vitamin C for my adrenals but I do sad quite a bit these days.  I am so tired all the time and just  long to wake up with a spark.  

 

I am not planning a cut and will hold till I stabilize.  Most of my cuts have been the same, whether I do 5% or 10% or whether  I do one or both meds.  I just feel each cut acutely and have felt them all the way down. 

 

I just need to vent and complain today because this has been endless.   As they say in program, thanks for listening.

[leahy]

Hibari,

 

There must be a huge biological adjustment to being almost med free. I am concerned about your low mood and dampened spirit and wish I could help you rise above that. I know you know your body and eat well. I wonder if getting outside in the with mild exercise might be helpful to you. It is the very last thing I want to do when I feel like you do. Sometimes I force myself, sometimes I do not. When I push myself to do it, I find that getting outside is, ultimately, the only thing that helps me get through the day and the night. My days are tough and my nights are harder.

 

Here's an interesting talk I watched on brain health recently you might like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-q-VmTlTwc

 

Lots of Hugs,

Leahy

[Hibari]

Leahy, I'm so sorry you days are tough and nights are harder.  I wish we were both past this trudge through wd.   

 

I do get out into the sunshine with my dog and even though I am exhausted, I am able to appreciate the day.  This is very different from when I was depressed and being out in the day was painful.   

 

I guess I have been in denial about going lower and it getting tougher.  I am going to look at the video you recommended.

 

Thank you and big hug back to you. 

[Santino]

HI Hibari

 

I am facing the same thing myself.

 

I am currently at 7.2Mg and the first days after the cuts were OK with the normal physical WD on the 3-5th day. But then after that week the next i started feeling worse... currently i have a terrible feeling of apathy and kinda depression with my brain in an almost nonthinking way. IN the afternoon after launch it starts to get better though but i have no will to do anything. Even the simplest decisions seem quite impossible. I have no anxiety though but a terrible apathy which is worrying me a lot. I am thinking that maybe staying at this dose makes not much sense and i better continue hopping to be better at lower doses. What do you think...??? Does that makes sense..???

 

I am reaching a point where I am not sure whether tapering is the right thing to do... not sure now whether this depression and fatigue are WD or a side effect of the low doses. Hoping we are following the best way.

 

Good luck

[Hibari]

Sometimes I have read that people do decide to taper even if they feel awful because they have difficulty stabilizing.  I think LLiz had that issue.  

 

I know that I have not stabilized yet but it could also be the reduction in Lamictal.    I am headed into the 3rd week after my cut and am very sick and despondent. 

 

I have to have the faith that I will stabilize or do what you are considering.  

 

Wishing you the best Santino. 

[Santino]

HI Hibari...

 

Any update from you my friend??? I hope the celebration season has taken over and you are not having problems with your doses. 

 

Keep us updated as any good news lifts our spirits and gives us hope.

 

Good Luck

[Hibari]

HI Santino,

 

Thank you for checking in.   I am at about 2.4mgs on my Mirtazapine and still holding at about 23mgs on the Lamictal.  I just made the Mirtazapine cut 7 days ago.

 

Everything is okay so far except for the weight gain.   I am getting ready to start exercising again so I stepped on the scale to see where I was.  I hadn't weighed my self since the summer.

 

I have now gained close to 30lbs from being on Mirtazapine.   I was 138LBs when I started the drug in June 2014 and now I weigh 167LBS.   There is nothing I can do at this point as I have tried many different things to lose weight during this time.  My metabolism slowed to a crawl and then, periodically I would have these intense sugar cravings, which are typical with Mirtazapine.  All I can do is wait till I am off and see what happens. 

 

My mood is pretty good because I am dropping by 5% every two weeks till I get to 10%. then holding till symptoms subside.  Still hot flashes in the morning.  

 

Step by step. 

[Hibari]

Still chipping away at my withdrawal.  I'm now down to 1.6 mgs of Remeron and 22.50 mgs of Lamictal. 

 

I feel my most recent Remeron cut from 1 week ago.  It's not horrible but I'm definitely edgy and my mood is low.  I know it's the cut because the two weeks before I was actually feeling quite optimistic. 

 

My weight still bothers me but I am making a concerted effort to eat as cleanly as possible.  I cut out dairy and the small amount of sugar I was eating 3 weeks ago and I dropped some weight.  I also have eliminated the almond milk I was drinking in my coffee.  I don't think it was bad, but on a body level, it felt unnecessary and I actually like black coffee.   My weight feel so much like water retention mixed with bloat. 

 

I think adding in an adrenal supplement at the same time I quite the dairy and sugar also has helped.  I have been really focused on helping my adrenals heal because I feel adrenal exhaustion started my downward spiral into depression.  I was way too stressed for too many years and my body tried to signal this to me many times.   I can now handle more supplements except for Omegas. 

 

Thinking about how to time my next cuts and how low I will go before I jump off.    When I feel better, I will tune into what my body is telling me about the timing. 

[Hibari]

Having some tough days lately.  Feel like crying a lot and my mood is down.   I am doing some deep emotional work on myself and while that is there, I also feel I got hit with an unexpected cut on my Lamictal.  

 

When I picked up my refill of my 25mg tablets, I didn't notice they were in the dispersable/dis-solvable form.   While they were easy to break in half to combine with my other pills (I usually take half of a hard tablet, which makes it 12.50 and combine it with two 5mgs of dispersable tablets to make 22.50)  I feel the dispersable tablets don't have the same amount of medication as the hard tablets.   So I woken up with a headache and a low mood for the past three days though I got my doctor to switch the prescription.

 

Today is one of those days where I feel tossed around by my body's reaction to my meds.  I hate this. 

[KarenB]

Ugh, you really don't need the extra hassle do you?  If only these people understood how vital it is for everything to stay exactly the same, it'd make our path so much easier.  Have things eased up in the last few days?  Hope so. 

 

Hugs,

Karen

[Hibari]

Thanks Karen, I really don't need the extra hassle. 

 

I'm okay today.  I have stabilized mood wise though still having hot flashed in the morning.    It all comes back to trusting that my body knows what is going on much more than the "facts" on paper.  Meaning even though most doctors think there is no difference in regular tablets and dispersable, my body feels the difference.  Had the same reaction when the 2nd out of 5 psychiatrists switched me to a dispersable version of Clonazapam.  Just didn't work for me. and my skin got really rashy. 

 

Really appreciate you stopping by Karen. 

 

Hope you are doing all right in your tapering journey. 

[KarenB]

Thanks Hibari.  My taper is going well.  Slowly, but well, so I am happy. 

[Hibari]

Great to hear. 

[Hibari]

So upset today.  It has taken me two years to get to this point and I was only on medication for 11 months.

 

I can't believe I am still withdrawing.  I feel like I should have made bigger cuts at the beginning and that this slow taper is detrimental to my state of mind.   I feel exhausted by how long it is taking and that I can't do the things I want to do like dancing or socializing.  I just feel too tired all the time.  

[AliG]

H.  Believe me , it gets better. It's horrid while you're going through it but it DOES improve. It doesn't just happen automatically but it does eventually happen.

 

The tiredness can hang on for a good while but it eventually improves too , bit by bit. Inch by inch.  

 

None of this happens quickly.  We are learning to " go slow " . That is all we can do. Slow turtles.

[leahy]

You've got this, Hibari. You are almost there.

 

I would say exactly the same thing as you, though, "I feel exhausted by how long it is taking and that I can't do the things I want to do like dancing or socializing.  I just feel too tired all the time". And sometimes I feel too sick to do anything but breathe.

 

You've done a tremendous amount of healing and you will be so much better all around when you come out the other side.

 

L

[Hibari]

H.  Believe me , it gets better. It's horrid while you're going through it but it DOES improve. It doesn't just happen automatically but it does eventually happen.

 

The tiredness can hang on for a good while but it eventually improves too , bit by bit. Inch by inch.  

 

None of this happens quickly.  We are learning to " go slow " . That is all we can do. Slow turtles.

Thank you Ali, I have to believe you when you say it gets better.  I feel like I am in a sandstorm and all I can do is listen to the voices of people who have made it through. 

[Hibari]

You've got this, Hibari. You are almost there.

 

I would say exactly the same thing as you, though, "I feel exhausted by how long it is taking and that I can't do the things I want to do like dancing or socializing.  I just feel too tired all the time". And sometimes I feel too sick to do anything but breathe.

 

You've done a tremendous amount of healing and you will be so much better all around when you come out the other side.

 

L

Oh Leahy, thank for that.   I just want to stay under the covers but that can make it worse.  I believe in you as much as you believe in me. 

[Hibari]

Having some very tough days since my last cut on January 19th.  Feel like crying all the time and I am depressed and often despairing.  

 

Out of desperation I tried some Tyrosine, two 350mgs capsules spread out during the day.  Felt a little something with the first one and then the second one made me feel I was speeding.  I didn't panic, knowing I had to ride it out.  Thought I would try a less intense version and on Tuesday morning, took a 1/2 of a 500mgs DPLA.  Again, too much for my system. 

 

I know that supplements can be triggering but I had to try and consequently learned my lesson.  I may down the road try D-Phenylalaine as it is supposed to be an inhibitory amino acid and I know my dopamine is low.  

 

I feel scared about never getting off Remeron because my mind is not strong right now.  I have always known and read that it is a brutal drug to withdraw from and I can see why.  It hasn't gotten any easier as I have gotten to the lower doses.  I am not planning on making another cut till I stabilize for a good month but now I am scared I won't stabilize again.  The wanting to cry daily  is also scary.  It reminds me of my depression period where all I did was cry and feel despair.  

 

I have to keep sharing this fear or else I stay up in my head. 

[KarenB]

Sorry the rough days are continuing Hibari. 

 

I think that generally people find they need to be even more cautious at lower levels of their drug, so in that regard you do fit the 'norm.'  Good to see that you will be holding for a bit.  It really does help. 

 

It sounds like the neuro-emotions are doing their thing though, and that can make w/d extra hard to cope with.  Do you have a comforting ritual?  After I've had a good cry, I like to have a big drink of cool water and then step outside for fresh air.  It helps to breathe, and find your connection with something real - maybe a tree or a flower or a patch of grass.  Remind yourself that you are surviving this. 

 

Because you are surviving this. 

[Hibari]

Thanks Karen.  Yes, I do believe it's neuro-emotions and I re-read the thread on them.  I was reminded that the intensity of sadness, anger and resentments is intensified along with the self-blame and criticism.   I do blame myself for not being able to just get through this and now I know that part of that is the irrational part of wd. 

 

  I was talking with someone last night and I said, I have to keep reminding myself that I am still healing, I am not healed.    I have to treat myself with kid gloves.

 

My favorite healing ritual is a hot bath.   Makes me feel comforted.

 

Thank you for your support Karen.