success Hibari: tapering Remeron and want to start tapering Lamictal

[Hibari]

So I have come through that horrific period of symptoms and am now in a more stable place.  I heard it called fragile stability on this site and that's what it is for me right nwo.   

Still morning symptoms but that awful going out of my mind has shifted. 

 

Here is a list of things I did to help myself.

• Reached out for support on this site on my thread and other friends.
• Spoke to my Alanon sponsor about accepting the fact that this last stretch will take longer than I wish but that is the lesson
• Went to a few Alanon meetings this week-didn't speak directly about wd, which I have done in the past, but just being in the room with people who are working on themselves was comforting. 
• Upped my L-Theanine to 200mgs 3 times a day if I need it.
• Had an acupuncture session
• Watched two videos on antidepressant wd.   One in particular really stated how the low doses are the times to go the slowest because of the concentration of medication being the highest.   I knew this but had to hear it again.  The other was on brain plasticity and how doing simple things like cross word puzzles, regular puzzles etc, can help stimulate neuron growth and that neuron growth takes time.  I can't really exercise too much except for walking but I am ordering some jigsaw puzzles. 
• Went on to Baylissa Fredricks site and listened to a coupe of short audio links of her talking about crying and  nausea.

As I shared with a friend on this site, all my actions above were to try and calm my body mind and spirit. 

 

Thank you to everyone who posted on my thread and offered support.  It is very helpful when there is nothing to do but hang on with your finger nails till things shift. 

[powerback]

This is brilliant Hibari ,great for you ,enjoy and revel in it .don't over do it and bring a wave on early .

Take care .

[leahy]

I'm so pleased to hear you are feeling better, Hibari. It is a slippery slope we climb. Because we think it should be all downhill by now, we are confused and upset when we realize it is still a climb. But you continue to give us all hope.

 

 

[Hibari]

Thanks Leahy.  Yes, I think it's the combination of exhaustion from going through the process and a disbelief that it's actually harder to get to the finish line.  

 

I hope you are doing all right and some symptoms are lessening. You have been a champion tapering off that high dose of Remeron and now being off. 

[Altostrata]

Hibari, it sounds like it's time you took a vacation from tapering. Stay at 10mg lamotrigine for some months, then resume tapering. Congratulations on getting down so far!

[Survivor1]

Hello Hibari,

 

I'm glad to know that you are doing better in your final taper.

 

I wanted to reach out to you because I am considering adding lamictal to quell some alerting symptoms I have that are preventing me from sleeping.  What is your advice on this.  I would rather not add another drug, but I need to sleep!

 

Any input is appreciated.

[Hibari]

On 3/7/2018 at 7:43 PM, Altostrata said:

Hibari, it sounds like it's time you took a vacation from tapering. Stay at 10mg lamotrigine for some months, then resume tapering. Congratulations on getting down so far!

I hear you Alto.  Yes, I need to take some time to really stabilize.

 

On 3/7/2018 at 8:12 PM, Survivor1 said:

Hello Hibari,

 

I'm glad to know that you are doing better in your final taper.

 

I wanted to reach out to you because I am considering adding lamictal to quell some alerting symptoms I have that are preventing me from sleeping.  What is your advice on this.  I would rather not add another drug, but I need to sleep!

 

Any input is appreciated.

Hi Survivor1,

 

I am so sorry you are having trouble sleeping.  I have had that too and I know how exhausting it is to be exhausted.  

I can't really advise you about Lamictal for sleep or to help with alerting symptoms.  Lamictal never put me to sleep and now that I am off Remeron, which used to knock me out, I have found myself struggling to fall asleep.  

 

I mainly rely on L-Theanine to help me feel calmer during the day and to help me at night to sleep.  It's doesn't knock me out or put me to sleep.   It mainly relaxes me enough so I can eventually fall asleep.

I written this before but I heard about L-Theanine from my current psychiatrist.  He suggested I try it when I was first tapering from Remeron and had such bad anxiety I could hardly sit still.  It really helped calm my nervous system down.    If you search for it on this site, you can read other members experiences with it.   Some like it, some don't find it helps as all. 

 

Take care of yourself. 

[SiameseDream]

I am withdrawing from Lamictal 200mgs as well. Im currently at 50mgs and holding here because I went way too fast due to my lack of knowledge. I was on it 6 months then started to taper. I pretty much have every symptom. The worst is the suicidal depression and extreme confusion  Any tips for survival?

[Hibari]

Hi SiameseDream,

 

I hear you about the depression and cognitive fog, its unsettling.  What has helped me is going to meetings (alanon) even if no one understands about antidepressant wd, just hanging out with people who understand pain helps.  I take a lot of baths, nothing in the water, just hot water.   I take L-Theanine, I go onto Balissa Fredrick's site and listen to her short audio links on how all this passes with time.  I watch light television.  I walk the dog and even though I am not so strong physically, just walking helps distract me. 

 

I tell myself that the extra symptoms, hot flashes, nausea, brain for were not there before I was depressed and even when I was really depressed.   So I know this is withdrawal.  

 

My friend FreeSpirit wrote something really helpful on my thread on February 25th.   Take a look at it, especially the part about what our nervous system craves. 

 

The depression feels real but it's withdrawal I have found that anything I can do to calm my nervous system helps.   You have to just hang on and know your body wants to move towards health.

[Survivor1]

10 hours ago, Hibari said:

Hi Survivor1,

 

I am so sorry you are having trouble sleeping.  I have had that too and I know how exhausting it is to be exhausted.  

I can't really advise you about Lamictal for sleep or to help with alerting symptoms.  Lamictal never put me to sleep and now that I am off Remeron, which used to knock me out, I have found myself struggling to fall asleep.  

 

I mainly rely on L-Theanine to help me feel calmer during the day and to help me at night to sleep.  It's doesn't knock me out or put me to sleep.   It mainly relaxes me enough so I can eventually fall asleep.

I written this before but I heard about L-Theanine from my current psychiatrist.  He suggested I try it when I was first tapering from Remeron and had such bad anxiety I could hardly sit still.  It really helped calm my nervous system down.    If you search for it on this site, you can read other members experiences with it.   Some like it, some don't find it helps as all. 

 

Take care of yourself. 

 

Hello Hibari,  thank you for your input.  

 

I am in such an unusual situation.  I had developed myoclonic jerks while on my drug combo, but now that I am down to only one med, the jerks continue and actually prevent me from sleeping.  Last night I had over 30 jerks!  I was hoping that since lamictal is an anticonvulsant, it may help, but even googling lamictal shows that sometimes it can induce myoclonic jerks!  I do not know what to do, but will have to figure something out.

 

I have heard of l-theanine, and I was reluctant to use to because it is GABAergic and I am a benzo survivor, but frankly I was even considering going back on a Benzo with the debilitating insomnia due to the jerks.  I am clearly at a crossroads ...

 

I wish the best for you in your final taper.  Take care.

 

 

[Hibari]

11 hours ago, Survivor1 said:

 

Hello Hibari,  thank you for your input.  

 

I am in such an unusual situation.  I had developed myoclonic jerks while on my drug combo, but now that I am down to only one med, the jerks continue and actually prevent me from sleeping.  Last night I had over 30 jerks!  I was hoping that since lamictal is an anticonvulsant, it may help, but even googling lamictal shows that sometimes it can induce myoclonic jerks!  I do not know what to do, but will have to figure something out.

 

I have heard of l-theanine, and I was reluctant to use to because it is GABAergic and I am a benzo survivor, but frankly I was even considering going back on a Benzo with the debilitating insomnia due to the jerks.  I am clearly at a crossroads ...

 

I wish the best for you in your final taper.  Take care.

 

 

Hi,  I'm so sorry to hear about the jerking, it must be so disruptive and that .   Yes, Lamictal is so odd, it can cause symptoms that it's supposed to help with. 

I too was on a Benzo for a year, first Xanax and then Clonazapam so I understand your nervousness.  I have had no issues with L-Theanine, which is an amino acid.  And  I have no judgement for anyone who has to take whatever they need to take to make it through tough times.

 

 

[Hibari]

I'm in a 3 day wave and am not handling it with grace.  I'm going into the 6th week from my last cut and I don't plan to cut till the end of April.  

Nausea, head pressure  and memory issues.  I feel like crying and some of it's due to the loss of a friends dog who was my dog's friend.  I know loss is a part of life but it is hitting me hard as our dog is 12years old.  

 

I also continue to struggle with a lack of motivation.  I think that the head pressure, which feels like the medication tamping down my brain is also a sign of it tamping down my energy. 

I just hate this today. 

[Survivor1]

So sorry you are feeling this way.  I see how hard it is to get off, yet I am considering getting on!  Hold for as long as it takes to feel better.

[Hibari]

59 minutes ago, Survivor1 said:

So sorry you are feeling this way.  I see how hard it is to get off, yet I am considering getting on!  Hold for as long as it takes to feel better.

Thank you Survivior. 

[Hibari]

Just continuing to write this out.  NO rhyme or reason to this wave, just continued nausea and head pressure.  I have to think that it's a brain adjustment going on and that there is no way through but to hold on.

 

The really shift is that for someone who used to be a workaholic, the amount I can do is so much less.  I know that's a good thing and something I needed to learn but the way I'm learning is no fun.  But I won't get this lesson unless there is a painful imprint to not over work again.   I also know that withdrawal is it's own separate thing and that symptoms are symptoms without there being a lesson involved. 

 

[Hibari]

I find that if I work a little bit I feel better and then I'm wiped out. Had to lie down for a bit because life was overwhelming to me. 

 

Mainly today it's physical tension and anxiety.  The deep despair and sadness  has lifted some since yesterday and has been replaced with fear.  I have to keep distracting myself from looking at anything too closely; my dog's age; my own age; the time it's taking and will take to become medication free. 

I am functioning but more like a sleepwalker, I think it's depersonalization.   It's one of those days where I wish I had an in person SA group to attend. 

 

I am grateful I have the time and space to go through this latest wave without too much work pressure.   I haven't been able to go to acupuncture due to weather and both our schedules.  I am trying a new person next week so that I can have some options when my schedule conflicts with my regular acupuncturist. 

 

I'm adding back in some Vitamin D3 and Vitamin C again to support my brain and adrenals. 

[Hibari]

So I continue to be up and down.  Tried a new acupuncturist and initially felt great but I have a feeling it was too stimulating.

The biggest contrast was feeling good on Friday and then Saturday I was in such a state of rage.   I know I am working through feelings but this feels very heightened and it stayed with me through Sunday. 

Unfortunately I ate a bunch of chocolate on Sunday and today feel lousy.  I have a hangover and just like alcohol, it's a depressant to me.   Still having hot flashes through the night and nausea.

 

I am functioning and know I need to get out of the house more.  When I stay in too much I start to get batty.  

Holding at 10mgs till I think mid April unless these symptoms make me feel that staying here is detrimental to my recovery.

[Hibari]

Warning: Not an upbeat post.

 

I am deeply depressed today and so sad.  I am doing everything I can to move through this lamictal wd, Alanon meetings, rest, my limited supplements and still this down, down feeling. 

Every time I have a hot flash it triggers me because hot flashes were part of my menopause symptoms, which was the start of my free fall in depression. 

 

As I said yesterday, I'm functioning but there is nothing worse then being in life while you feel so low.  And to be looking at my life and there is nothing majorly wrong with it except for what's happening with my health.  So upsetting.  Just have to keep writing it out. 

[FarmGirlWorks]

I don't have much to say today but hang in there @Hibari. It is hard but we are strong.

[Hibari]

26 minutes ago, FarmGirlWorks said:

I don't have much to say today but hang in there @Hibari. It is hard but we are strong.

Thanks for that FarmGirlWorks, even a little makes a difference. 

[Santino]

Hibari My friend...

I sense WD style thinking while reading your updates. The fact that you have ups and downs is a good thing and you know that. Most probably you have written your last message on a WD way of thinking which is good because it shows soon another day will come, you will feel positive and you will write a up vibe for us.. :-)

10 days ago i had also a wave of around 2-3 weeks where i was confusing everything and thought i did the wrong choice by tapering... i came out of that now and feeling somehow 80%-85% normal. That is the case for you too my friend. Keep on being positive and you will pass these tough moments.

All the best

[ChessieCat]

10 minutes ago, Santino said:

you will pass these tough moments

 

I read this as "trough".  It's applicable!

[AliG]

Sorry H.  Haven't been around much lately ~ but hang in there.

13 hours ago, Hibari said:

Every time I have a hot flash it triggers me because hot flashes were part of my menopause symptoms, which was the start of my free fall in depression

 

I had this too ~ still do, at times. Don't worry, it recedes in time. Still dealing with it but , much less ....

(((( hugs))))

[Hibari]

Ali, lately I feel like someone who has gone cold turkey. I feel like I am getting worse instead of stabilizing. It's been about two months on the since my last cut and I have hit a stretch of feeling so bad.  I can't seem to find perspective. I talked to my husband today about whether I should go back up on my med.

I feel.stuck here and in this huge state of fear and sadness about what I have done to myself.  

[Santino]

Hibari

I am continuing to have such periods... i bet it is your WD brain that is making all the fuss my friend. Just push the days and try some physical activity. Remind yourself that it is WD and it will pass. 

All the best

Santino

[leahy]

Hibari,

 

This has been a long, cold winter for us. Do you think the difficult weather could be contributing to your low feelings? I know it has been very tough on me. I feel much better when I can get outside more in the sun and move around in a more relaxed way, not tense with the terribly cold weather. I went to Florida for two weeks and felt fantastic, slept extremely well and was happy. All unusual for me after a long hard taper. I am wondering why I even live here anymore. I feel trapped in New York. Everything feels difficult.

 

Just some thoughts and wishing you well....

 

Leahy

[Hibari]

Thank you all for your replies.  I don't plan on tapering just to be clear until I stabilize.  I was writing to a friend of mine that in my mind my withdrawal has always been, make a cut, have some horrific days and then move into wd normal.  As I look at my thread, I think with Lamictal it's been much more windows and waves in short periods of time, which has thrown me .  I feel like I've done something wrong when this happens as opposed to a new patter of wd for me. 

 

It has been a long cold winter Leahy.  The only good thing is that it's allowed me to hibernate without having to come up with an excuse to go out. 

 

I read was reading though the site last night and saw someone wrote, "I thought I would be one of the lucky ones and not have many problems".  Someone else wrote back, "we all wish we were one of the lucky ones".   I wish I was one of the lucky ones but I'm not.  I happen to be super sensitive and this is my fate.   I also feel so badly for my husband, for the past 4 years he has seen me in depression and then wd hell.  I know he loves me but it has taken a toll on us in that we are both exhausted.   He actually is far more patient than I imagine I would be. 

 

Today I have to borrow all of your faith in me that I can do it.    I will site with the reinstatement question and see if what I am supposed to do around that gets clearer. 

[Hibari]

I just posted a link in the media section regarding a top story in the NY Times about how difficult it is for people to come off of antidepressants. 

 

It feels so validating to finally read about what we all struggle with or have struggled with in the main stream media.  Here is the link.

https:// nyti.ms / 2GK795C

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, Hibari said:

I just posted a link in the media section regarding a top story in the NY Times about how difficult it is for people to come off of antidepressants. 

 

I've moved it to an existing topic.  new-york-times-many-people-taking-antidepressants-discover-they-cannot-quit

 

[Hibari]

Need specific advice about taking an extra dose of meds.   I accidentally took a second dose of Lamictal this morning.   I have had about 4 days of solid stability and then had a very long day yesterday.

Took my usual dose of Lamictal, 10mgs at about 11:30PM

 

Got up this morning and in my tiredness, I reached for the Lamictal bottle and took 10mgs of Lamictal at about 9AM instead of my Armour Thyroid Tablet. 

 

Heads UP-Graphic description

I made myself throw up but since the tablets are dispersable, I couldn't tell.  

 

I do feel a bit spacey and tired.

 

My question is, how do I handle the next dosage?   I thought I could take reduced dose this evening but not sure what that would be or do I skip my dosage tonight and wait till tomorrow evening and take my usual 10mgs?  I could take it slightly earlier then usual. 

 

Any suggestions would be so appreciated. 

[brassmonkey]

Hi Hibari-- I'm sorry to hear that you've had an incident with your dosing.  The first thing to remember is that it is temporary and not to let the situation panic you.  Secondary panic will cause more trouble than the drugs will.  A one time double dose shouldn't cause too much trouble, and it sounds like you may have removed a lot of the source in a rather graphic way.  I think trying to reduce tonight's dose would just stir the pot and not do a whole lot of good. In the same manner skipping the dose would just throw things further off.  It will take four or so days for your blood plasma concentration to return to it's steady state, so things could be up and down for that time.  The extra drug could have tripped off some symptoms too, so they will take some time to settle out.  Given a  few weeks things should be back to WDnormal.  All in all it would be best to chalk it up to a "darn it, why did I do that?" moment and let it go.

 

Hope you're feeling better soon.

 

Brass

[Hibari]

Thank you Brass.  Definitely one of those "darn it, why did I do that?" moments. 

 

The most interesting thing is, as I've come down of Lamictal and experienced windows, I've had a real feeling of being alive and alert even in wd normal. 

Taking the extra dose made me feel spacey and well medicated and it's so interesting to notice and experience it.   Of course I can do this because I'm not in a horrible wave but what I'm feeling is "oh, yeah, Lamictal really is sedating or a leveling of mood medication" . 

 

Sigh...   Moving forward. 

[Hibari]

Wanted to update my thread as it's been awhile.

 

I am now down to 9.25mgs of Lamictal from 200mgs as of last week.  I held for about 2 1/2 months before I started tapering again.  

I do feel the cut in that I am having lots of hot flashes and my mood is on the weepy side.

 

But I am okay and have been working as well as resting as much as I can.

 

I've decided to do the BrassMonkey slide for the last part of my taper but will be switching and am considering doing partial liquid and partial tablet.  If you have read my thread, you'll see that there is where my anxiousness about wd plays out.  I try different methods and sometimes feel dissatisfaction with the  method I've chosen.  

 

I'm still remain very sensitive to cuts large and small but am trying to be patient. 

It's been over a year since I got off of Remeron/Mirtazapine and that has been huge.   I have lost 24Lbs of the 30Lbs I gained.  Still feel some puffiness from my current medication but am now only about 6lbs over my normal weight without any dieting. 

 

I do know I am getting there and will get off this final medication.   

[Hopefull]

Hi Hibari,

I can't believe it has been a year since you got off Mitrazapine.

You are doing really well.  I am happy to hear that you have lost a lot of Mitrazapine induced weight gain. 

Keep going,  you are doing well. 

[Hibari]

Thank you Hopefull, I appreciate your support.

 

I'm feeling better today, so that's a good thing.

 

How are you doing?   

[Hibari]

I heard a podcast the other day where the speaker was talking about recovery.  At one point she said, "I don't have to like the process, but I do have to accept it in order to recover".

 

I very much related to what she said.  I so don't like this process nor the pace of the process but I do have to accept it.   Sitting here at 9mgs knowing I have a least 8 months in front of me to get off the remaining Lamictal is not something I like.  I do have to accept it.  Each time I make a .25 cut, I feel it and go through it and then wait to start the process again.   I have had to accept it.

 

Hanging out in withdrawal stable is physically tiring, cognitively challenging and I don't like it, but I have to accept it. 

 

I guess I would honestly say, I am in the process of accepting that I have to accept this process it in order to heal.