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Hibari

Hibari: Tapering Remeron and want to start tapering Lamicatal

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leahy

Hibari,

 

I find myself crying over the news today. In particular about the beautiful young woman who was shot on the pier in SF. Now I am tearful about the passing of my cousin's husband. That was six years ago. 

 

These are sad events but this is the first time the tears are happening. I wonder - am I first starting to thaw out? That would mean that I've been frozen for 16 years. Maybe "thawing out" is the upside of our sad feelings and you have been an inspiration to me.

 

Best,

L

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Hibari

I am glad you are feeling better or were yesterday.

 

I had a semi tough time last night but only for a few hours. I find that during this time of WD if I feel rushed in any way, that I can get overwhelmed pretty quickly and then panicky. It wasn't horrible but starting to notice that I need more time and space for many things.

 

I also, even though I said I was going to hold, made a tiny taper on my Lamictal. I wanted to see if I could handle it. Today I have a headache and feel a little spacey but ok. I don't feel I am operating from my will but my instinct. Will keep close attention to this process.

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Hibari

My post just happened at the same time yours did.

 

Yes, I do think coming off these medications causes our feelings to thaw.

 

Being put on Mirtazapine stopped the free fall of emotions after mom died. Now as I am coming off, there has been deep grief along side of the Mirtazapine tears. I can usually tell when I have medication tears because underneath I feel I am ok.

 

Leahy, I think your perceptions about your feelings are right on. You have a lot of awareness and you too have been inspiring to me.

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leahy

I found a compounding pharmacy in East Moriches on LI. I hope my pdoc will help me with getting the liquid, I see her tomorrow. 

 

I hope you have a good day!

 

~L

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Hibari

Yes, let me know how it goes.

 

I have survived 3 days on a lowered Lamictal dose along with my Mirtazapine at 26mgs.  I have been fuzzy and emotional all day.  Went to my acupuncturist and she had her former teacher do some specific testing of my body and then create a forumula to address the imbalance.  I start that tomorrow.  While I am open to the treatment with him, I was really upset and crying with my acupuncturist.  I felt her teacher really did not understand withdrawal syndrome (or at least that's how I perceived it).  I told her that when he said I was exhausted, he did not understand that much of my exhaustion comes from the WD I am going through.  She asked me for some links for information on it and I gave her some to this site.   I get that if my energy is balanced or strengthened then I can handle more of the WD symptoms but I need to be understood, especially when I explain what I am going through very clearly.  I feel so many practitioners don't understand what is happening in the brain and how it affects the body during WD. 

 

I also do not want to be defined as someone in WD.   I don't always want to lead with it when someone asks me how I am.  Other times, it is all I can focus on to talk my self off of the emotional ledge. 

 

This post is all over the place but I just needed to vent.

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Fresh

How much did you decide to decrease the lamictal dose?

 

I'd be wary of any "formula to address the imbalance" that your acupuncturist/homeopathic guide recommends.  

Check each ingredient before taking it.  

St.Johns Wort and valerian can be dangerous - check on www.drugs.com for interactions.

Better to be safe than sorry.

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Hibari

Hi Fresh,

 

I brought my Lamictal down from 200mgs to 187.25mgs.  I am doing it very consciously and not willfully.  I will hold for a good long while before I drop again.  In a post or two above I mentioned I did the cut instinctively not by force.

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Hibari

Hi Fresh-

 

Had to to take a call, which interrupted my post.

 

Yes I will definitely be careful with anything that is supposed to help get me in balance. Thank you for your insight around this.

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Hibari

Very close to tears today and feeling anxious.   I know this is the pattern of my Remeron WD-headed into my second week after a cut and that's usually when it hits.   I feel the panic that comes with wd each time.  It's the feeling of "oh my god, I really am depressed and here's evidence of it". 

 

I told my psychiatrist I would like to taper of my Lamictal.  I know I will do it very slowly and only when I have truly stabilized on my Remeron.  The cut I just made from 200mgs to 187.25 is manageable.  My psychiatrist said he would call in a prescription for 150mgs.  I asked him to call in a 100mgs prescription and 50mgs as I wanted to taper much slower.  He said he felt the taper was overly drawn out and that there was no scientific evidence to the contrary.  However, he said he would do it.  I thanked him for his willingness to work with me-no need to educate him at this point-to much of an effort.

 

Then I get an email from my acupuncturist asking me how I was feeling after taking a formula and then says she would like to ask me a series of questions.  They ranged from why did I choose to go on medication instead of therapy or group therapy.  Also, could my physical symptom are a manifestation of my psychological state of mind.  I had to keep myself from tearing into her.  She just doesn't know.  I gave her a very detailed response and told her flat out-that even through I am grieving different things in my life, there is nothing psychologically wrong with me.  I have been in therapy for years and finally know that.  I told her my issues were physiological and that my initially depression came out of loss and exhaustion.  My symptoms now were from wd.  I told her, that when I was exhausted I was in an emergency state.   I tried many holistic things before I was, out of desperation, prescribed mediation.  I told here,  collapsed body, collapsed mind. 

 

I know they just don't understand due to ignorance but it takes a lot of energy to educate people when all I want is understanding and support. 

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leahy

Hibari "I know they just don't understand due to ignorance but it takes a lot of energy to educate people when all I want is understanding and support. "

 

Same here. I am in the same exact spot but too tired to write about it. I like reading your posts, though. :-)

 

My pdoc says it makes no difference - the small decreases I make - "Your body doesn't feel these 1 mg... 3 mg cuts." 

 

I finally am able to cut a 30 mg in half, half again then 1/3 of the last half. I think that makes 25 mg. I'm dropped from 26 to 25.

 

I want to yell at my pdoc "THERE IS a difference. Damn it! I am struggling!"

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Hibari

Thank you Leahy., Yes I want to yell too.  I was on the phone with the friend who I speak to when I am in the peak days of wd and I was really angry, not at her but at everyone who tries to tell from their narrow perspective why I am feeling what I am feeling.  It usually has to do with something psychological issue I haven't addressed or that I shouldn't be feeling what I am feeling when I cut down on the medication.  You are right, "There Is a difference.  Damn it!  I am struggling!  Even you and I don't feel well it's so nice to have your support.  

 

How did it go with your doctor?  Did he or she agree to the liquid Remeron? 

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Hibari

Have moved into a window starting yesterday afternoon into today.  Still waking up sweating and a little lower mood but not as bad as it was and coffee seems to get me going. 

 

I have been taking a Traditional Chinese medicine formula, can't even tell you what's in it but it seems to be helping.  The formula is created based on testing acupuncture points.  I had to set a boundary with the practitioner and explain that my mood these days was physiological not unresolved blocked feelings-I hate that blanket generalization. Once I set that boundary, we were able to get on the same page. I still may need to speak up and I'm okay with that.  

 

So many times I have given my power over to a doctor, therapist or holistic practitioner and I'm not willing to do that anymore.  I have put in many years of therapy and other self help modalities. I have come to realize I am my own best advocate.  I'm still open to relieving help but will no longer tolerate some making an assessment of me without really knowing me.   That, if anything has come out of this medication maze experience.

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leahy

Hibari, you sound great! Maybe go to the beach and have some fun in the hot sun.

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Hibari

Still in a semi window but feel like I want to cry.  I have a minor headache, irritability and feel very sensitive to other people's comments.   Except for this site and the support I get here, I feel like I alone on my journey.  Other people do not get the sheer courage and energy required to go against the standard "chemical imbalance, have to be on medication the rest of your life" opinion. 

 

I am grateful for the members here who have to stand strong, while feeling sick, and not let other people offer their limited opinion on the process.  It's so easy for people to react to the WD symptoms and offer their slant on what I need to do.  Or  say, "well you just have to accept that you may need to be on medication the rest of your life."  It's always the ones who have never been on medication who say that so glibly.   Yeah, that's what I want to accept, the emotional flatness, weight gain, and fogginess.  No big deal. 

 

I am so angry right now and it's hard when you are living with someone or have friends, who while caring, cannot fathom what this is exactly like.  And I have to accept that unless they experience it, they never will.  But I will no longer defend my healing or try and get others to understand who don't.  I can explain it to practitioners who are trying to help me, but will not be pushed into what anyone else's "idea" of what this process is about.

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leahy

Hibari,

 

YOU ARE NOT ALONE. I am here with you. 

 

I dropped down to 22.5 three days ago and yes, today I have a headache but I always have a headache so I try to visualize it's healing pains I am feeling.  Somehow the headache gets better after eating something. That's the remeron keeping me fat! Oh, well. The good news is I am not feeling seasick!

 

When I feel down, overwhelmed, misunderstood I say to myself "It's a nuero-emotion. Ignore it. Ride it out like a wave in the ocean." That helps a bit. But today I am focusing on the fact that I am making progress. People cannot imagine what we have to go through. It makes no sense to them. Like it's not logical to them - doctors prescribe meds to help people. Therefore I must be the crazy one.

 

If it's this difficult to come off these meds, I am convinced that the amount of harm that they produce in this world is incomprehensible. There is a common thread in all these horrific crimes/shootings we hear about and the is "He was depressed." I think "Yup." It is the medication causing suicides, homicides, pain and suffering and more depression. I want out! So I will accept the torment each day as long as can reassure myself that I am in the process of getting out. I am angry, too.

 

Hibari, when pet owners give animals remeron they cry and whimper for days all night long. My cousin just told me yesterday about her dog whimpering all night, yelping all night, yowling after being given remeron to make the dog eat. You can google that and read stories. Why wouldn't we be crying? It is not you. It is the medication and this too shall pass. 

 

All the best healing to you,

~Leahy

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direstraits

why is my sig. coming up when I click on your intro.?

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leahy

DT,

I don't know. I'll check it out.

L

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leahy

No idea, DT. I don't get your signature when I click on my intro. No worries - I erased my intro link anyway.

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freespirit

You are definitely not alone Hibari, though I understand why it feels that way.

 

I feel like crying a lot too, though I have nothing in particular to point to as to why I feel sad. I can even have a good interaction with someone, and then walk away feeling sad. However, I've had a lot of sadness through my life..not just on meds and not just in wd..so it makes it all very confusing.

 

If there is anything valuable to come out of these awful experiences, I'd say one (at least for me) has been reclaiming power around my own health. I won't back down to any health practitioner again either. I'm happy to hear you taking charge of that too, and not succumbing to pressure from practitioners. People even in alternative healing say a lot of things that are not really helpful..that are predicated on their particular belief system around this or that. I'm learning to let those go, at least better than I used to. What they believe isn't that important, as long as they don't try to impose it on me.

 

No one can know what this is like, without living through it. I talk very little to people in my life about it. While that is isolating at times, it's less problematic than feeling judged or having people say things that I find objectionable or hurtful. Fortunately for me, the only person who's said anything about being on the drugs was my stupid doctor. I think no one else in my life would dare suggest it, given what I've said about ad and how horrible this process has been. Generally, I believe people around me see how much better I am now..although that has certainly taken some time.

 

Leahy, it pains me to hear about animals being put on these drugs..and I've heard it from people here as well. They can't even make a choice to stop taking them and who knows what they are experiencing on them...

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leahy

Fresh,

 

I don't have pets but my friends who do, tell me how their pets will stop eating when they are sick. This is when an unknowing vet might prescribe remeron to make the animals eat. It does make animal eat but loving pet owners are alarmed and concerned about their pet's distress and crying. They will then stop using that medication. What is truly disturbing is that vets do not acknowledge or seem to be aware of the distress remeron causes and will say that remeron is not the cause.

 

Just like us. Makes us eat, makes us fat, makes us cry, makes us miserable.

 

L

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Hibari

So great to hear from both of you and feel your support.  

 

Leahy, I know you are taking the same brave steps as I am and even though I don't want either of us to experience this, I'm comforted by being on this path with you.  I hope the headaches ease up for you and I took am glad you are not feeling sea sick. I can hear your determination to move down the taper ladder and I support you.  The neuro-emotions are intense and I have to keep remembering the cause.  I too am upset about any animal being given medication or treated badly.  As I am going through wd, I can't read or view anything that does animals harm.   Once I feel healed and healthy, I know I will be moving more and more into animal advocacy.   I am going to use my anger in a constructive way-to stand up for myself and for animals.  Having a dog has taught me so much about love.  When I was depressed and sleeping most of the day, my dog stayed by my side. 

 

Free Spirit-Yes, reclaiming my power around my health has been so empowering.  I was actually in an acupuncturists office today to get a new formula and when he asked me how I was when I came in, I said something like "I'm feeling sensitive and irritable" and he said something like, "welcome to living in New York".  I did not crack a smile and said, this is not about New York.  In the past, I would have smiled or laughed along with him to make him feel good.  Not any more.   A few times during our interaction and testing he would either interrupt me or try to use humor.  I stopped him each time, and explained very clearly what I needed to say and have him understand.  I found that the calmer and clearer I was, the more he calmed down as well.  He actually said, I need your help in understanding you more so I can help you and I said I would help him.  I am continuing to work with him because the first formula he came up with for me was helpful.  It just feels so good not to compromise myself in order to get the next formula.

 

You have shared in previous posts that along with the WD crying, you had deeper feeling of grief coming out.  Leahy and I have talked about the thawing of our emotions.   The crying for you many not have to do with the grief you have mentioned earlier but  may be about an ache of the soul.  I don't want to assume this is why you feel your sadness so please know this is only my perspective.  My soul has ached for many years and for me it is both a longing for a spiritual faith and connection to my truest self.   I am hoping that when those two pillars are in place for me, that I will feel more solid in my world. 

 

I feel much less alone now because of both your posts to me. 

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freespirit

You have shared in previous posts that along with the WD crying, you had deeper feeling of grief coming out.  Leahy and I have talked about the thawing of our emotions.   The crying for you many not have to do with the grief you have mentioned earlier but  may be about an ache of the soul.  I don't want to assume this is why you feel your sadness so please know this is only my perspective.  My soul has ached for many years and for me it is both a longing for a spiritual faith and connection to my truest self.   I am hoping that when those two pillars are in place for me, that I will feel more solid in my world. 

 

I do very much relate to what you've said. This process has felt very much like a dark night of the soul. What I'm experiencing is a kind of existential loneliness, which is accompanied by sadness.  I think the sadness comes from many places, which makes it hard to understand at times.  I wish I was able to cry more. I feel sad, but there are seldom tears anymore. This part does not feel like neuro-emotion to me, but more of a spiritual passage.

 

I hope you're able to find the faith and connection you long for.

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Hibari

I understand very much the dark night of the soul experience and your belief that you are going through a spiritual passage.  The people I trust the most have reflected back to me that they feel this is what I am experiencing.

 

Your posts have a very thoughtful quality to them and to me, reflect a deep introspection and wisdom.  You many not always feel that but something is shining through as you are searching for meaning.  

 

Another person I trust said, often we will notice that something has changed from within and it can surprise us because it's not the intention we had set for ourselves.  I was able to recognize a few changes lately and they were a nice surprise. 

 

I wish for your the peace and serenity you are seeking, one day at a time.

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leahy

Good morning Hibari,

 

Day 5 Remeron reduction:

 

I was awakened last night with a severe headache and nausea, feeling intensely sick. If I didn't know better I would have thought I had the flu. I thought it was time to get up but it was only 2 AM. I was in a total sweat, soaking wet. I put the AC down to 67 degrees, took 2 aspirin and xanax and managed to get back to sleep.

 

It's as if remeron lashes out with a vicious attack when I try to reduce it. Why does my pdoc say "I don't think remeron has anything to do with your headaches. Your body doesn't know the difference with these "small" reductions." 

 

Today, as usual, headache and nausea.

 

L

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direstraits

why is my sig. coming up when I click on your intro.?

I meant Hibari's intro

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Hibari

Hi Leahy, so sorry you are in the heart of the physical withdrawal.  Yeah, it's as if the brain all of a sudden notices it's not getting the drug it's used to.   Our bodies do know the difference when we reduce our medication. 

 

I read somewhere on this site that the physical reactions, particularly the sweating is all about the body reacting to the lesser amount of medication and then working to stabilize.  Our bodies want health and fight for equilibrium.   You will get through this this immediate roller coaster ride of physical symptoms and come out on the other side.   Your body is on your side. 

 

You are not alone.  

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leahy

Thank you, Hibari.

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Hibari

Not feeling so great today, mainly physical-nausea, headache but also a lowish mood.  I feel some sadness and a tendency to ruminate today.  Looking back with regret on some of the choices I did and did not make in life.  I know part of this is where I am in life, a neccesary soul searching of how I want to live my life and what really matters.   

 

I also feel physically exhausted.  I did some reading on Lamictal WD and feeling really tired is one of the symptoms.  I also was sweating while eating breakfast today and my digestion is not so great.   When I am this tired and in this mood, I feel like life is passing me by.  I'm functional but not so upbeat. 

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Hibari

I just posted in the Media forum of this site an article by a women who has been documenting her taper off medications in the New York Times. 

 

It is one of the most emailed stories in today's New York Times.

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Hibari

Have felt weepy over the past few days.  I am doing more and functioning better but have felt sad.   I also lack spark and passion and that is upsetting form me.  I hear people around say they love life and are so happy with what they are doing.  I feel a lack of that zest and feel very sensitive on top of it.   Yes, some of it is wd but I still am going through PTSD from the care taking I did of my mom.    

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leahy

Hibari said "Looking back with regret on some of the choices I did and did not make in life.  I know part of this is where I am in life, a necessary soul searching of how I want to live my life and what really matters."

 

I can relate to your feelings, H.  Every day is a challenge, as we try to change our lives by wd. I have resolved myself to taking things one hour at a time as much as I possibly can. I know I am going to feel sick, fat and unhappy mostly every day. I am hoping there is a light at the end of a tunnel. I, too, feel like life is passing me by.

 

Yesterday is gone, tomorrow isn't here yet, all we have is now. Try to visualize that every day your brain is healing. This is going to take time. Hang in there, Hibari, you will come out the other side. 

 

L

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Hibari

Thank you Leahy.  I like visualizing everyday that my brain is healing.

 

I think you already told me this but do you wake up with either a big hot flash or sweating in the morning?  I don't know if I am still going through menopause or if this is consistent with wd.  I am not having real hot flashes or sweating during the day but I do get warm in the face.  I think that until I am off the drugs, I won't know what my system is like.

 

My memory and word retrieval is still bad but hoping that will improve with time. Like right now I was going to write something and I could not remember what it was.

 

Oh, yes I am down to 24mgs of Remeron. 

 

How are you doing on your recent taper?

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leahy

Thank you Leahy.  I like visualizing everyday that my brain is healing.

 

I think you already told me this but do you wake up with either a big hot flash or sweating in the morning?  I don't know if I am still going through menopause or if this is consistent with wd.  I am not having real hot flashes or sweating during the day but I do get warm in the face.  I think that until I am off the drugs, I won't know what my system is like.

 

My memory and word retrieval is still bad but hoping that will improve with time. Like right now I was going to write something and I could not remember what it was.

 

Oh, yes I am down to 24mgs of Remeron. 

 

How are you doing on your recent taper?

My recent taper has its ups and downs as you have explained to me before. Thank you for that. You think you're over the worst and it (wd) comes back with a vengeance and hits hard. Like today - headache, nausea, tired... Life is passing me by while I bore myself to death with these symptoms.  I think I'd feel better if those around me would simply validate this but they do not understand or forget. I don't blame them I forget, too.

 

I get SO HOT at random hours during the night. Sweating! Last night I got up and lowered the AC to 69 degrees just to get some sleep. Do not worry about menopause. I will be 66 in October - no menopause happening here.

 

I feel so relieved to read about your word retrieval issues. I reach for a word and can't find it in my head. I forget what I am trying to say sometimes in mid sentence.  It's embarrassing sometimes.

 

~L

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Hibari

Thank you so much for you feedback about the sweating and getting hot.   I don't want to increase any of the bio identical hormones I am on and hopefully taper off of those in the future.

 

I know my over doing it as a caretaker  caused everything to go out of whack, endocrine system, nervous system, adrenals,  and patience is the key. 

 

I am very grateful for your support-feel like crying as I write this. 

 

I am wishing speedy healing for both of us.

 

Hibari

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freespirit

Hi Hibari,

 

Perhaps we can rename Remeron "the sadness drug". I seem to feel sad a lot of the time too. Leahy talked about how it makes animals cry too.

 

I'm having temp. regulation problems too...mostly, they are in the morning..after I'm awake. Before wd, it had been years without hot flashes, except on rare occasions. Have had a few rounds of being cold though too, even though it's been warm outside.

 

I can relate to the issues regarding life choices, and the stress of having been a caregiver. All rolled in together, it's pretty daunting to be dealing with it at the same time.

 

I think it's good you're noticing some difference in productivity, even though you feel lacking in zest. I can say the same thing. A lot of life feels like putting one foot in front of the other, going through the motions. At least for me, I does help being able to get a few things done though...better than not being able to do anything.

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Hibari

Yes, lets officially call Remeron the crying drug.  I have read up on the withdrawal symptom of Remeron, not on this site, and crying is a big symptom.   

 

When the tears threaten, my fear comes up big time.  I know as I read my signature, this comes and goes, but I do not want to be the sad one anymore.   Well, it's not only sad, there is a lot of rage underneath.   I ran into someone in my building, who said a former friend of mine (who stopped supporting me emotionally due to her "spiritual calling") not only had dinner in my building but asked this person I ran into if she ever saw me and how I was.  I was so angry!  The person I ran into has had no knowledge of what I have been going through  I feel like my former friend has no right to ask about me or how I am doing.    She shouldn't get the benefit of knowing I am okay so that she can be let off the hook for not being a good friend.

 

That's the kind of rage coming up.  I understand that people can't handle the trauma of depression and wd and they may feel helpless but I don't have to be so fair about forgiving them at this point.  I have been overly fair in the past and this experience has stripped me down to the core.  I will not tolerate unkindness hidden behind some  spiritual loftiness. 

 

Thank you for listening to me vent, I need to let it out here. 

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