DC112: struggles after Pristiq

[DC112]

Thank you Fresh! I have noticed that if there is an evening where I have a few alcoholic beverages, the next day I feel less depressed and don't have as many cognitive issues from withdrawel! Is there any explanation for this? This is something I just don't understand.

[DC112]

Are my messages not coming through? I'm not sure why I'm not getting responded to?

[anonymous4317]

I withdrew two years ago from Pristiq after being on it for several years. I'm not knowledgeable about most of the things you're asking and I doubt I can be of any help, but I wanted to pop in and wish you well. I withdrew without help from the psychiatrist and haven't seen one since.

 

I went off Pristiq almost two years ago, which is when the severe WD started.

[KarenB]

Usually alcohol consumption gives the opposite effect.  Perhaps you have some rare and lucky genetic difference? 

[DC112]

Also, I have spine surgery coming up. And with my recovery I will have to take pain meds. I'm wondering how people are generally reacting to pain meds anesthesia etc. I obviously don't want to have issues with pain meds. Can I tolerate them? Will I have withdrawals from them?

[Fresh]

Hey DC ,    I know that many members on here have had surgery with good recoveries and not

got into trouble with pain management afterwards.  As you recover , you'll taper your meds. according

to your pain.

 

I found one thread discussing surgery here , with input from on e of our doctor-members  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5688-great-site-by-an-anesthesiologist/?hl=%2Bsurgery+%2Bpain#entry75554

 

Posted 02 January 2015 - 10:28 AM

westcoast, on 02 Jan 2015 - 05:05 AM, said:

This is interesting. Does anyone know if Effexor would render post operative pain meds ineffective? \

Anything is possible, but I have not seen it, on both sides.  I am an anesthesiologist, and I haven't noticed this.  Plus as a patient, taking Effexor 225mg, on two occasions I had a normal response to opiate meds after surgery.

 

ETA - There is huge variation from person to person in sensitivity to opiates.  It is not rare for someone to need 2-3 times the dose of a 'normal' patient for effective pain relief. 

[DC112]

Thanks for checking in anonymous and Karen.

 

Thank you fresh! You are the only one responding to me. Hahaha. So I am very thankful for your input!!

 

I am wondering if there is a way to crush up viibryd and measure it on a scale? My dad is a pharmacist and has an old crushing tool and bowl. I am wondering if I could go this route because I'm not sure I want to mess with the liquid. Seems to really mess me up. Even doing a switch over I feel would be difficult!

 

Also, is one or two beers ok a couple times a week!? I feel it's important for me to socialize with friends. Does a few drinks really affect someone days later? I'm not sure if I am as sensitive to alcohol as many on here. I've really cut back the last couple years.

[ChessieCat]

Hi DC,

 

You might want to read this post and some of the preceding and following ones.

 

It is possible to socialise without alcohol.  If anybody makes a comment, just say you can't drink alcohol because of the medication you are taking.  Don't make apologies for it.  Just be assertive and don't joke about it.  If you want to improve, I think it would be very stupid to add any amount of alcohol.  It just isn't worth it.

[Fresh]

No comment on the drinking ... it can't be a good thing. For every up , there's a correlating down.

That's how equilibrium is reached.

 

You can crush viibroyd tablets with a mortar and pestle or pill crusher , and weigh powder or

fragments.

See the thread on "Tips for Tapering Viibroyd" here

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2693-how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules/

 

[DC112]

Thank you. I think I will crush the viibryd then. Also I think I'm going to cut alcohol out. This would be a BIG life decision. Maybe one of the biggest of my life. Maybe I'll feel better?

[Fresh]

Maybe you will .... most people who stop drinking do

[DC112]

Any musicians out there? I'm looking to possibly be recording and possibly touring soon.

[DC112]

Hello

 

I am thinking of first reducing my gabapentin to decrease the cognitive issues. I'm having to wait until after my spin surgery which is scheduled in mid May. Thoughts on reducing gabapentin before viibryd? I haven't been able to reduce anything yet because I don't tolerate liquid well at all and I figure I can just open up the gabapentin and weigh them out in pill capsules. I'm hoping to reduce gabapentin for some months, hopefully feel less side effects from it, then focus on viibryd.

 

Thanks

[Fresh]

Gabapentin makes you dopey.  That sounds like a very sensible plan to me DC.

 

[DC112]

Thanks fresh!

 

Also I have to take azithromycin for an infection. Should I be ok tolerating this? I've heard some folks struggling with an antibiotic. It just one dose

 

Dan

[DC112]

Hello all!

 

I am having nausea and more just general discomfort since taking a one dose azithromyicin. Does anyone know how long this generally lasts for? I asked a few days ago but didn't hear a response so u went for it.

 

Thanks

[KarenB]

Hmm, something in my fuzzy memory thinks there was a member here who had issues for a couple of weeks after an antibiotics reaction.  There is also this member's thread http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8967-njj-adverse-drug-reaction-with-zoloft-antibiotics/ which if you read down through it, discusses in more detail how he recovered over a couple of months.

 

You are having relatively mild issues, so may recover sooner.  Rest heaps, drink heaps of water, keep everything else gentle. 

[DC112]

Hello all!

 

I have bought a Gemini - 20 Portable Milligram Scale. It weighs up to 20g in .001 (1mg). I am starting my taper of 300 mg of gabapentin. For some reason when I weigh an opened capsule the powder it weighs close to .400 mg. and is always varied in amount. I am wondering why this is? Why is every pill not exact from the manufacturer? And how does one know when they reduce the powder if they are reducing more filler or more of the active ingredient?

 

Thanks,

Dan

[SquirrellyGirl]

Dan, the acitve ingredient and filler are well-mixed so I wouldn't worry about that.  I believe the manufacturers are allowed a variance of +/- 10%, astonishing to know.   

 

The Gemini can also be a finicky little beast.  Mine will say 0.000 but weigh a sample differently each time. For this reason, I would always weigh one of the 10G weights before each sample, to make sure the scale isn't drifting.  If it refuses to weigh 10.000g, then tare the scale or recalibrate until it does.  Make sure there are no drafts, and that the scale is on a level surface. Also make sure the weigh pan is seated properly.

 

Have a read of this one if you haven't already:  Using a digital scale to measure doses

 

SG

[DC112]

Thank you for the response!

 

Would it be ok if I cut ten percent from every individual pill rather than weighing out several and averaging that? Would cutting ten percent from every individual pill be the most accurate? Is there always the same amount of active ingredient in every pill but sometimes a different amount of filler?

 

Some of my gabapentin vary slightly in weight ex . Some weigh 398mg and some weigh 392mg. I'm just trying to be exact

 

Thanks

 

Dan

[SquirrellyGirl]

Hi Dan, 

 

I believe the manufacturers are allowed a variance of +/-10%.  The drug and filler are mixed to create a homogeneous mixture and then pressed into pill form.  I think the best way to go would be to weigh a few pills, take the average of them, and use that number to base your 10% cuts on.  So, if your average weight is 395 mg, for instance, then remove enough from each pill so that you have 355.5 mg, 90% of your average.  This will give you consistent dosing day to day, more so than those whole pills with their +/- 10%!

 

I did this with my generic Remeron tablets.  My tablets had a coating on them.  I would weigh chunks and then add powdered tablet to bring the weight to where I needed it.  It was consistent enough to not cause problems.

 

Good luck!

SG

[DC112]

Thank you squirrelly girl

 

I will go that route

 

I am also having issues five days out from my initial taper. Wondering if I should just wait longer as they can be very uncomfortable symptoms. Does this maybe subside after a week?

Thanks! Thanks for the quick support!

 

Maybe more magnesium would help??

 

Any other thoughts?

[SquirrellyGirl]

DC, this is why we have people keep records of their daily symptom pattern relative to cuts, so that you can see how things unfold, how you respond to a cut.  It is pretty common that somewhere after four days one will develop mild withdrawal symptoms in response to a cut.  It takes four days for the dosage to reach a steady state in the blood, and then maybe additional days for any symptoms to come on as the nervous system recognizes a change has taken place.  For me, my mild symptoms would come up at about day five, stick around 3-5 days, and then subside.

 

So, rather than be reactive, just peacefully observe and accept. If the symptoms are so strong as to be incapacitating, then you could up-dose a tiny bit, but again, it would take four days for that to register.  Just know that the symptoms will die back.  If you ride them out but find them too uncomfortable, then that would be your cue to either cut by less, or perhaps try 5% every two weeks.  This is your time to listen to your body and learn from what it tells you as to how to proceed in the future.

 

Certainly you can try upping your magnesium.  Are you on omega 3 fish oil as well?  I take the equivalent of the RDA of magnesium, 400 mg elemental.

 

What symptoms are you noticing?

 

SG

[DC112]

I am not taking fish oil. I may try some omega three in a syrup tonight

 

I am noticing an inner agitation/anxiety and depression from the agitation.

[DC112]

Hello all!

 

I ended up stabilizing after the first eight days then after two weeks of feeling ok I now feeling some issues about an hour after taking my meds. Slight crawling in the skin feeling and inner agitation/ depression, not severe but concerning. I'm wondering if this is from the last taper?. I'm supposed to drop this upcoming Monday but am feeling a little concerned about these new symptoms.

 

Why three weeks out after about two decent weeks would my body be reacting funky? Very frustrating. Could it be something else? I have been having life stressors!

 

Also can 50mg of mag be beneficial? I seem to be sensitive to 100mg. not sure why

 

Thanks,

Dan

[SquirrellyGirl]

Are there any other variables we aren't aware of?  Any stressor in your life?  Could you outline for us your daily pattern in terms of what times you take your different meds and when symptoms arise?  Do the symptoms stay the same all day or do you feel better in the afternoon/evening?  Do they crop up a set amount of time after a dose of one of your meds?  What are the symptoms?

 

Certainly, you can take less magnesium - we all are pretty assuredly deficient in magnesium and it can be very helpful to address anxiety if tolerated.  It plays a big role in our bodies so even if less than "ideal" it would be good to get some.  Epsom salt baths and topical mag oils are other ways to get some into you.

 

SG

[DC112]

Thank you for your time

 

I am returning back home(Portland) from surgery and I am looking for a job and roomate. So I def have some stressors. I take all my meds (2.5mg buspar, 10mg viibryd and now 270 mg of gabapentin) at 11:00 o'clock in the morn. And about an hour after I take it, the last few several days, I feels some inner agitation/depression. It slightly ranges in severity then Towards the end of the day somewhat dissipates. But it felt like I had settled into my first taper so im unsure why this is going on

 

Thanks,

Dan

[SquirrellyGirl]

Trying to wrap my head around this a little better before taking it to the mods in general.  So, you made a cut and during the 8 days what happened?  Did you have symptoms right away but THEN stabilized after 8 days only to have symptoms come up?  Or did you feel ok for 8 days after the cut but then had symptoms?

 

If the latter, it maybe be that is the normal pattern for you with your gabapentin cuts.  It take four days for the new dosage to reach a steady state in the blood, and additional days for symptoms to arise.  The symptoms will last x number of days and then subside.  After that, you should feel "withdrawal normal" and be ready for the next cut a week or so after stabilizing.  This cycle could take as little as three weeks and as many as six depending on the person, the drug, the size of the cut, etc.

 

If you had symptoms right away, stabilized after 8 days, were doing well and THEN felt worse again, I'm not entirely sure what that means other than that you are going through windows and waves from the cut destabilizing you, perhaps in light of the tough time you had over the spring with the liquid Viibryd and all.  So, if you could clarify a bit further for me, that would help.  

 

SG

[DC112]

During the first eight days of the cut I had the inner agitation/depression state.

 

Then I felt ok after that period for almost two weeks. But I am now having some off days again of some inner agitation over three weeks out. Not severe put very noticeable

 

Does you body get used to cuts so maybe they become easier?

 

Feeling somewhat better today. But I'm concerned for the long term. I made a standard 10% cut. I'm concerned about the very long length of time this could take to get off just one med, especially if I am getting bad withdrawals throughout to the point where I can't play music and work(I'm a working musician and looking for other work). I have to be able to make cuts but still be able to feel well enough to live, play music, love and have peace in life.

 

I know it's not a 'good' idea but if I'm having bad withdrawals from a 10% percent cut and this could last for a very long time, would it be better to just rip the bandage off and just stop taking it and risk being miserable for a few months, getting the issue over with.

 

I feel after writing this out that's obviously not a good idea. Just thinking in terms of time.

 

How long could it take at 5% cuts every two or three weeks?

[KarenB]

The problem with ripping the bandage off (and I'm really glad you went on to say it does seem like a bad idea) is that people who do that are often still struggling years down the track, not just months. 

 

This is because you can't just flush their effects out of your system.  They change the way your brain works, and that takes much longer to heal.  Suddenly stopping the drug puts your brain and Central Nervous System into shock.  It's like yanking a trellis out of a garden instead of gently untangling the plants and slowly removing the wood – it’s too much trauma for the plants/your brain.  (For the source of that simile, plus further discussion, see http://survivinganti...el-your-brain/)

 

So considering you'll be affected in an on-going manner either way, you may as well choose the path more conducive to healing.

 

I hear your frustration though .

[SquirrellyGirl]

I agree with Karen.  Tapering shouldn't produce strong withdrawal that you feel incapacitated, but everyone is different.  I would suggest the 5% cut and see how you feel with that.  Sometimes we need to keep our eye on the long term goal of getting off the meds and try not to agonize over the details of how long it will take.  You could sit down and do the math, but if it doesn't give you the answer you want, how will you feel about that?

 

Those who do the very long, drawn out tapers (thinking mod Brassmonkey as an example) are usually feeling fine most of the time and able to live their lives in the process.  Sure, some can get away with getting off fast and not being bothered by withdrawal very long, but you don't know until you try; however, if you try and it takes a couple of months to really go south such that you finally cave and reinstate, you have lost that much time and must start over after a period of getting stable again.  Given how much trouble you have had so far with the liquid Viibryd, DC, I wouldn't take the chance.  

 

It's a rotten deal, to be sure.  None of us signed on with any inkling that we'd find ourselves in this boat, yet here we are.  We all thought it would be like taking aspirin, and if we didn't want to take the meds anymore we could just stop. And it turns out we can't, and we can't go back in time for a do-over.  Grrr!  There's a bit of mourning that goes along with that :-)  

 

And so I send you hugs, my Dear!  

 

Can you ride these symptoms out until you feel stable for a few weeks?  It sounds like there are daily windows and waves, which is better than it being solid misery ;-)  It means your system is processing the change and trying to adjust.  Continue to keep track of your symptom pattern.  Are you taking magnesium?

 

Think of it this way.  Gabapentin is more sedating, but the nervous system made adjustments to push back against that.  Now that you have reduced a tiny bit, the agitation is from the left-over changes un-opposed.  G was a brake and your body put down the accelerator, so you are now left with a little too much accelerator until your system dials it back down.  With 5% cuts, hopefully this differential won't be so noticeable.

 

The other part of the equation could be that Viibryd is very activating and when you cut the gabapentin a bit, it leaves the Viibryd a little bit too much in charge.  You might alternate tapering each one, so cut one by 5% and then a few weeks later cut the other one by 5%.  It will take some experimenting to figure out if 5% keeps you comfortable and how often you can cut.

 

SG

[DC112]

I can definitely ride them out.

 

I am taking some magnesium and I can't tell if it helps or hurts to be honest. Sometimes I take it and within minutes feel calmer and sometimes I feel like it might be too activating. I also am having to take Pepcid complete right now for my stomach because I man taking 800 of Motrin twice a day for post operation recovery. Maybe the Pepcid is causing issues? I can keep trying the mag in low doses, I mean biting of chunks from a 200mg pill.

 

I feel like I might be settling in and doing better today. So that's good. I think I will try 5% cuts every two to three weeks and see how that goes. I just want to be able to have some passion in my life for music and living and am hoping that I can still have that when tapering. Can people function at a high level while tapering? Go on tours playing music? Lead successful, fulfilling lives? Are there examples of this on the forum?

 

Thank you KarenB and Squirlly for your support and hugs! This is the hardest situation I have ever been through and it seems to always be pushing me to my limit. I always seem to be able to 'keep swimming' as Dori would say. Haha

 

Dan

[SquirrellyGirl]

Brassmonkey is one of our mods who has been tapering Paxil, at the tail end of it now and taking vacations and what-not, living life!  Yes, once you get stabilized, you should be able to engage in life if you were able to while on higher levels of the drugs.  I find it is the drugs themselves that cause emotional blunting and demotivation, but as I have been reducing I have been noticing an awakening of sorts.  I'm still at a high enough level that receptors are blocked at a relatively high percentage, still.

 

 

 I just want to be able to have some passion in my life for music and living and am hoping that I can still have that when tapering. Can people function at a high level while tapering? Go on tours playing music? Lead successful, fulfilling lives? Are there examples of this on the forum?
 

 

Have these issues come about due to trying to come off the meds or did they occur because of the meds?

 

I'm glad you are feeling better, a good sign!

 

SG

[DC112]

Well this all started a two and a half years ago When I came off Pristiq too quickly. I was having issues from Pristiq, memory, mood swings, agitation. Etc. I have seen improvement from those issues though I still struggle. I was off Pristiq for ten months and was doing horrible so I felt, a the time, that I had no options but to try a different type of med to see if I could get any relief, I knew all along that the issues were from Pristiq but I had not found this forum yet. Now I am on low doses of three different meds

 

These recent issues have been due to the first 10% cut I made from gabapentin.

 

When I was recovering from surgery in Califonia for two weeks I was the most relaxed I'd been longer than I can remember. I came back and continued to heal from surgery and do physical therapy. I decided because I was home and feeling good in recovery mode that it would be a good time to start tapering. I did the first ten percent cut and it has been very difficult.

 

Yesterday felt OK for the first half of day then had about an hour on intense mood swings. Very dark. Then popped out of it and was fine. So I still have to hold right now cause I'm still having issues.

 

I hope I can make 5% cut more often to get this thing going.

 

Can I ask how you are doing with your taper? Do you feel fully funtioning while tapering? I hope you are well too.

 

Dan C.

[DC112]

I am wondering if your pill can still change even if your using the same manufacturer? I take 5mg total of buspar a day and the manufacturer is MYLA. I noticed the last script that I picked up is still MYLA but the pills seem slightly different. Can this cause issues even though it's the same manufacturers?

 

Thanks

[SquirrellyGirl]

If they have changed their processing for some reason then yes, it could create a blip for you.  Keep track of your symptom pattern.  Have you noticed any difference since starting this new supply?

 

SG