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davidcpp: Escitalopram withdrawal


davidcpp

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My best bet is, you will feel better resuming tapering. Sleepiness and sluggish is a major side effect for me from Lexapro, and long hold will make it worse.

Definitely don't go back to more or any new drugs, you are almost there, you are only confused because you think every symptom is from WD while actually not.

 

If you continue the rest journey getting down with dose, you probably will be out of the woods this year.

Drug free Sep. 23 2017

2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks.

2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg

2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain

2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain;

2013 Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg by July. first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain

2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg,

2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on

2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks.

2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR

2016 Feb., started dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday 2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg,8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg, 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg

2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, 2/13--0.13mg, 2/20--0.06mg, 3/18--0.13mg, 6/1--0.12mg, 7/6--0.1mg, 7/14--0.08mg, 8/17--0.04mg, 8/20--0.03mg, 8/28--0.02mg, 9/6--0.0205mg, 9/8--0.02mg, 9/17--0.015mg, 9/20--0.01mg, 9/21--0.0048mg, 9/22--0.0001mg,

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  • Moderator Emeritus

... I read about windows and waves, I know about it, but problem is that I have longer and better periods in October, November, December than I have last month.  ...

 

David, it's good that you had significant windows for longer periods late in 2016. Again these patterns come and go. Just because they were good in October doesn't mean they'll be the same in November or now.  These windows will almost certainly continue to get longer and the waves weaker and shorter in duration.

 

If you want to be conservative about tapering to keep things stable, you might want to investigate the "brassmonkey slide" the tapering approach that a member and moderator here has used for several years to reduce Paxil.

Example of brassmonkey slide.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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  • 8 months later...

Hi,

I'm going back to this forum. In generall, last months weren't bad, but few months before I thought that it will be better. Especially I mean physical fitness, muscle condition. Often muscle stiffness prevent or limits me take a sport activity.  Most days are quite well in terms of my mind, my brain and my emotions. I'm able to work (programming) quite freely, but sometimes (few times a month) I have brain fog which last from several dozen minutes to few hours and problems with concentrace on my task. However, often after about 7 hours I have some nervous tension and fatigue. Sometimes this fatigue cause that I become angry and I throw some things and punch my fist in different things. I take my current dosage from almost 4 weeks and I don't know if I should cut it now. The fact is that today I was very sleepy and I can get up from my bed ( I was in my bed dor 11 hours) which may suggest that I take my dosage enough time to cut it. Problem is that I have to go down with dosage by 25% (from 4mg to 3mg of powder, digital scale has 1mg precision). I haven't other way to do withdrawal, this drug isn't good soluble in water and that's why I can't measure dose by syringe. I feel that I get trapped.  Last changes also were bigger than 10% (last 20%). and I haven't any critical periods that prevented me work but I'm afraid that effects of my changes will come with delay. It seems to me that my symptoms suggest me that they result not from instabilty but from side effects of drug. After all I can't recognize in what part symptoms result from withdrawal effect and in what part from side effects. I ask for advice, how to deal with my situation? Sorry for chaotic post.

Thank you in advance.

3/21/2014 - Escitalopram Actavis 5mg (half of a pill) every day. 

6/1/2014 - Escitalopram 10mg  

2/1/2015 - Escitalopram  5mg  

3/1/2015  Escitalopram 5mg /every 2 days, every 3 days... up to every 6 days

6/30/2015 trying to withdraw totally - I kept waiting until the eleventh day but withdrawal was too strong so reinstated 

7/2/2015 Escitalopram 5mg / every 6 days 

8/27/2015 - Increasing to Escitalopram 2.5mg / per day - a lot of withdrawal symptoms , not sure what to do ....

2015:  12/30 - 2.2mg; 
2016:  2/2 - 1.9mg  4/9 - 1.7mg  5/10 - 1.55mg  6/11 - 1.4mg  7/3 - 1.25mg  7/24 - 1.1mg  8/16 - 1.0mg  9/7 - 0.9mg
2017:  1/24 - 0.8mg  2/14 - 0.7mg  3/4 - 0.64mg  3/19 - 0.58mg  3/30 - 0.53mg  4/16 - 0.48mg  4/29 - 0.43mg  5/26 - 0.37mg  7/1 - 0.32mg  8/6 - 0.26mg  27/08 - 0.21mg  
2018:  2/16 - 0.186mg;  (change to liquid) 3/19 - 0.145mg  4/3 - 0.13mg  4/22 - 0.12mg, lower doses afeter, 09/15 - try to witdraw completelly, but feel that i must reinstate - up to about 1.9mg to 2020/09 but the dose whole time was wrong because I store drug in refrigarator during most of the time - that was big mistake. Next mistake was to reinstate 1.9 mg instead of start from lower doses because doses from drug stored in refrigarator were disturbed. After 3 weeks i find out that i must go down and go down to 2021/06. 2021/06 Going down from 1mg to 0.4 in 2 weeks when I feel that that dose became to high. I started to feeling better then at about 0.4mg after, I started feeling that drug too high dose symptoms starting to let go in few days.
2021/06/05 - next mistake - I take 2 days levocetirizine for allergy, after 2 days crash, symptoms like on too high doses.
2021/06/07 - 2021/06/16 - 0.4mg - 0.1mg
2021/06/17 - 2021/06/20 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.1 - 0.6mg, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/06/21 - 2021/06/28 - 0.6mg - 0.12mg
2021/06/29 - 2021/06/30 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.13 - 0.3, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/07/01 -2021/07/14 - 0.3 - 0.12mg
2021/07/15 - 2021/07/19 - 0.12 - 0.01mg - still I feel too high dose effects, some withdrawal symptoms like dizziness, but they let go and more and more too high dose effects, therfore I go down with dose
 
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  • Moderator Emeritus

If you are making larger than 10% cuts then it would be better to hold for longer than 4 weeks.

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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I think ChessieCat is totally right, and he is a moderator. I would listen to him. If you are making cuts bigger than 10%, you should wait much longer to do the cut. The moderators here recommend 10% every 6 weeks, or something around this. My cuts have always been much smaller than those. If you cut 20%, maybe you should wait 12 weeks to cut again. I would do it proportionally, and always remember to pay attention to my symptoms. I never forget that many people here have the bad symptoms later then they expect. Better be safe then sorry. But that is just my opinion.  

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  • 1 month later...

Hi,

The time passes, but my symptoms not only aren't weaker, but sometimes are stronger. I am very confused because I can't deduce if they come from WD or from what drug do. I am taking my dosage for 11 weeks, and I don't feel that I stabilize. Symptoms are similar to that which I have with too big dosage for me (when I started to take 2.5mg/day after 2.5mg/3day), or when I hold the same dosage for 3-4 month. The most heavy symptoms are:  growing Sleepiness, muscle stiffness (inability to do some sport) , Chills, fatigue, low energy, tantrum, anger, anhedonia, mental and cognitive problems, sometimes anhedonia.

 

Sleepiness increases, espacially for weekend. Often I have to go sleep at 20-21. Last night I slept from 21 to 7-8 A.M. with one awakening at 4 A.M. I did few things, and about 10 A.M. I had to lie down again and I couldn't move up to 12. Now, when I' m writing this post I become sleepy again, altough I sleep about half of last day. Often this feeling is accompanied by with anger and desire shout at someone or to destroy something. More oftenI haven't enough energy to Get dressed before going to bed or wash teeth. I'm surprised that some people on this forum write that have heavy symptoms but they are able to write long, complex and not chaotic post like my or write about running in half-marathons.

 

Doing some sport  is practically impossible in my case - so strong is muscle cramps or stiffness. Even If I felt better some day, after warm -up I tried to run, but after I started to accelerate I got strong muscle cramps. My physical form get worse and worse. fast

 

I also have cognitive, mental problems. Sometimes linking threads in my mind is getting harder and harder. It's getting worse with my digestion, intensial functioning, condition of my skin (red spots on the skin, dry skin on the face). I don't know what I should think about my situation, if is it caused by too wast withdrawal in the past or by sesnsitivty on the drug. Holding doasages in the past don't eliminate or reduce a large part of symptoms, but now so big changes can add or strengthen some symptoms.

3/21/2014 - Escitalopram Actavis 5mg (half of a pill) every day. 

6/1/2014 - Escitalopram 10mg  

2/1/2015 - Escitalopram  5mg  

3/1/2015  Escitalopram 5mg /every 2 days, every 3 days... up to every 6 days

6/30/2015 trying to withdraw totally - I kept waiting until the eleventh day but withdrawal was too strong so reinstated 

7/2/2015 Escitalopram 5mg / every 6 days 

8/27/2015 - Increasing to Escitalopram 2.5mg / per day - a lot of withdrawal symptoms , not sure what to do ....

2015:  12/30 - 2.2mg; 
2016:  2/2 - 1.9mg  4/9 - 1.7mg  5/10 - 1.55mg  6/11 - 1.4mg  7/3 - 1.25mg  7/24 - 1.1mg  8/16 - 1.0mg  9/7 - 0.9mg
2017:  1/24 - 0.8mg  2/14 - 0.7mg  3/4 - 0.64mg  3/19 - 0.58mg  3/30 - 0.53mg  4/16 - 0.48mg  4/29 - 0.43mg  5/26 - 0.37mg  7/1 - 0.32mg  8/6 - 0.26mg  27/08 - 0.21mg  
2018:  2/16 - 0.186mg;  (change to liquid) 3/19 - 0.145mg  4/3 - 0.13mg  4/22 - 0.12mg, lower doses afeter, 09/15 - try to witdraw completelly, but feel that i must reinstate - up to about 1.9mg to 2020/09 but the dose whole time was wrong because I store drug in refrigarator during most of the time - that was big mistake. Next mistake was to reinstate 1.9 mg instead of start from lower doses because doses from drug stored in refrigarator were disturbed. After 3 weeks i find out that i must go down and go down to 2021/06. 2021/06 Going down from 1mg to 0.4 in 2 weeks when I feel that that dose became to high. I started to feeling better then at about 0.4mg after, I started feeling that drug too high dose symptoms starting to let go in few days.
2021/06/05 - next mistake - I take 2 days levocetirizine for allergy, after 2 days crash, symptoms like on too high doses.
2021/06/07 - 2021/06/16 - 0.4mg - 0.1mg
2021/06/17 - 2021/06/20 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.1 - 0.6mg, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/06/21 - 2021/06/28 - 0.6mg - 0.12mg
2021/06/29 - 2021/06/30 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.13 - 0.3, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/07/01 -2021/07/14 - 0.3 - 0.12mg
2021/07/15 - 2021/07/19 - 0.12 - 0.01mg - still I feel too high dose effects, some withdrawal symptoms like dizziness, but they let go and more and more too high dose effects, therfore I go down with dose
 
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  • Moderator Emeritus

Many members find that the lower their dose gets the slower they need to go.  Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves

 

Your last reduction was almost 20% as Mona mentioned.

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

You have a couple of options.  Keep holding at your current dose until things improve:

 

Stabilising After a Reduction - What Does That Mean?

Withdrawal Normal Description

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

OR

 

Updosing by a very small amount.  Possibly increasing your dose to 0.22mg.  Your brain will have already made some adaptations since you have been on 0.21mg for 3 months.  Just a tiny increase might be enough to bring your withdrawal symptoms to a bearable level.

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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The problem is that what I have earlier described - my dosage weight is about 4mg whay is about 0.21mg of escitalopram. I don't have possibility to change this dose so - small it's physically inpossible. This powder is practically insoluble in water or some liquid. I measure my dosages by digital scale - now I can change dosage by 1mg - which is about 0.05mg of escitalopram substance.  It isn't so precise - Measurement error surely is greater than 0.01 of escitalopram substance. Mixing in liquid is in my case is like playing roulette in my opinion. I can't rate is it well measured dose. I tried in the past this method, but pulling uniform solution before powder settle on the bottom in the liquid was very difficult or even impossible. 

I think that this is one of the main problems with my withdrawal. I feel like I'm trapped without a way out. 

 

I don't know if I make additional mistakes with measuring doses - I crash whole pill with coating layer and I take random particles of whole pill.

 

3/21/2014 - Escitalopram Actavis 5mg (half of a pill) every day. 

6/1/2014 - Escitalopram 10mg  

2/1/2015 - Escitalopram  5mg  

3/1/2015  Escitalopram 5mg /every 2 days, every 3 days... up to every 6 days

6/30/2015 trying to withdraw totally - I kept waiting until the eleventh day but withdrawal was too strong so reinstated 

7/2/2015 Escitalopram 5mg / every 6 days 

8/27/2015 - Increasing to Escitalopram 2.5mg / per day - a lot of withdrawal symptoms , not sure what to do ....

2015:  12/30 - 2.2mg; 
2016:  2/2 - 1.9mg  4/9 - 1.7mg  5/10 - 1.55mg  6/11 - 1.4mg  7/3 - 1.25mg  7/24 - 1.1mg  8/16 - 1.0mg  9/7 - 0.9mg
2017:  1/24 - 0.8mg  2/14 - 0.7mg  3/4 - 0.64mg  3/19 - 0.58mg  3/30 - 0.53mg  4/16 - 0.48mg  4/29 - 0.43mg  5/26 - 0.37mg  7/1 - 0.32mg  8/6 - 0.26mg  27/08 - 0.21mg  
2018:  2/16 - 0.186mg;  (change to liquid) 3/19 - 0.145mg  4/3 - 0.13mg  4/22 - 0.12mg, lower doses afeter, 09/15 - try to witdraw completelly, but feel that i must reinstate - up to about 1.9mg to 2020/09 but the dose whole time was wrong because I store drug in refrigarator during most of the time - that was big mistake. Next mistake was to reinstate 1.9 mg instead of start from lower doses because doses from drug stored in refrigarator were disturbed. After 3 weeks i find out that i must go down and go down to 2021/06. 2021/06 Going down from 1mg to 0.4 in 2 weeks when I feel that that dose became to high. I started to feeling better then at about 0.4mg after, I started feeling that drug too high dose symptoms starting to let go in few days.
2021/06/05 - next mistake - I take 2 days levocetirizine for allergy, after 2 days crash, symptoms like on too high doses.
2021/06/07 - 2021/06/16 - 0.4mg - 0.1mg
2021/06/17 - 2021/06/20 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.1 - 0.6mg, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/06/21 - 2021/06/28 - 0.6mg - 0.12mg
2021/06/29 - 2021/06/30 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.13 - 0.3, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/07/01 -2021/07/14 - 0.3 - 0.12mg
2021/07/15 - 2021/07/19 - 0.12 - 0.01mg - still I feel too high dose effects, some withdrawal symptoms like dizziness, but they let go and more and more too high dose effects, therfore I go down with dose
 
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  • Moderator

Hi Dave-- one of the big problems we face when doing a taper is the lack of accuracy of the equipment and the materials that we have available.  Working with crushed pills and inexpensive scales isn't the best way to make up our doses, but it's about the only choice we have.  Making our own liquids isn't much better.  There is very little pierces information available for solubility rates and concentrations for DIY liquids. I have been able to find some general information on the solubility of Escitalopram. 

 

"Escitalopram soluble in methanol, dimethyl sulfoxide(DMSO), soluble in isotonic saline solution, sparingly soluble in water, ethanol, slightly soluble in ethyl acetate, and insoluble in heptane."

 

The water, ethyl acetate and heptane are out because they won't dissolve it.  The methanol and DASO are out because they are poisonous and toxic.  Which leaves isotonic saline. It might be worth a try.  We can only guess at what the concentration will be, but it should be better than just plain water.  I wouldn't expect great success with the first dose, but it should get you closer to where you want to be.

 

Another idea would be to use a suspension liquid such as Oraplus and work with a suspension instead or a solution. You have to grind the pill into a very fine powder for it to work properly. You can adjust your dilution ratio to something that makes it easier to get the small dose you're looking for and because it's a suspension it will be much more accurate.  Which ever way you go things must be prepared in an accurate scientific manner, careful, exact and clean, not just taking random pieces and calling it "good enough".

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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  • Moderator Emeritus

I've been suspending, I believe the word is, a Lexapro tablet in water for over a year now without any problems. I don't worry that it doesn't dissolve as long as particles are evenly distributed. I just put the tablet in tap water and after 5 minutes it's dissolved and I just stir it well.

 

I'm dropping by 0.1 mg so it is very accurate.

Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2

2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013)

Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 
1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg.
2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg
went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days after
reinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours
28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr  2015 1 mg,  25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64  Xanax     9 month hold

24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26

Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic 

I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. 

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1. Should I crush the pill and use all particles including these from coating layer? I use particles from coating layer so far, but I wonder if is it correct approach.

If I should reject coating layer, it will change my current the dose. How can I deal with this problem?

2. I remember that when I try to stir drug in water i've noticed that powder fall too quickly to pull suspension to oral syringe and I wasn't convinced that in syringe is proper dose. Is it possible that particles from coating layer can make me confused? Powder settled on the walls of oral syringe. Should I rinse it from syringe and add to my dose to have proper dose?

3. As for salt solution, does it have to be bought at a pharmacy or may it be water with salt (for example Himalayan salt) with 0.9% concentration ?

4. Is it possible to make this suspension for longer time - Is there some problems with stability of dose in water? Is it enough to store it in a fridge? Does the light affect the stability of suspension?

 

 

3/21/2014 - Escitalopram Actavis 5mg (half of a pill) every day. 

6/1/2014 - Escitalopram 10mg  

2/1/2015 - Escitalopram  5mg  

3/1/2015  Escitalopram 5mg /every 2 days, every 3 days... up to every 6 days

6/30/2015 trying to withdraw totally - I kept waiting until the eleventh day but withdrawal was too strong so reinstated 

7/2/2015 Escitalopram 5mg / every 6 days 

8/27/2015 - Increasing to Escitalopram 2.5mg / per day - a lot of withdrawal symptoms , not sure what to do ....

2015:  12/30 - 2.2mg; 
2016:  2/2 - 1.9mg  4/9 - 1.7mg  5/10 - 1.55mg  6/11 - 1.4mg  7/3 - 1.25mg  7/24 - 1.1mg  8/16 - 1.0mg  9/7 - 0.9mg
2017:  1/24 - 0.8mg  2/14 - 0.7mg  3/4 - 0.64mg  3/19 - 0.58mg  3/30 - 0.53mg  4/16 - 0.48mg  4/29 - 0.43mg  5/26 - 0.37mg  7/1 - 0.32mg  8/6 - 0.26mg  27/08 - 0.21mg  
2018:  2/16 - 0.186mg;  (change to liquid) 3/19 - 0.145mg  4/3 - 0.13mg  4/22 - 0.12mg, lower doses afeter, 09/15 - try to witdraw completelly, but feel that i must reinstate - up to about 1.9mg to 2020/09 but the dose whole time was wrong because I store drug in refrigarator during most of the time - that was big mistake. Next mistake was to reinstate 1.9 mg instead of start from lower doses because doses from drug stored in refrigarator were disturbed. After 3 weeks i find out that i must go down and go down to 2021/06. 2021/06 Going down from 1mg to 0.4 in 2 weeks when I feel that that dose became to high. I started to feeling better then at about 0.4mg after, I started feeling that drug too high dose symptoms starting to let go in few days.
2021/06/05 - next mistake - I take 2 days levocetirizine for allergy, after 2 days crash, symptoms like on too high doses.
2021/06/07 - 2021/06/16 - 0.4mg - 0.1mg
2021/06/17 - 2021/06/20 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.1 - 0.6mg, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/06/21 - 2021/06/28 - 0.6mg - 0.12mg
2021/06/29 - 2021/06/30 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.13 - 0.3, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/07/01 -2021/07/14 - 0.3 - 0.12mg
2021/07/15 - 2021/07/19 - 0.12 - 0.01mg - still I feel too high dose effects, some withdrawal symptoms like dizziness, but they let go and more and more too high dose effects, therfore I go down with dose
 
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  • Moderator Emeritus

I don't crush the pill. As I said, I put it in the tap water and let it sit for 5 minutes and then it disintegrates. I don't worry at all about the coating layer. I don't think I would be able to tell what is the coating layer and what is not. I just put the whole pill in the water and that's it.

 

I also don't worry about how quickly the powder falls. I stir and draw from the middle and it is very accurate. (I drop by only 1 line on 2 ml syringe and that is my reduction). I used the same method with Xanax for 3 years and managed to come down from 2 mg to 0.625 mg, it was that precise.

 

You can rinse the syringe if you notice that some powder stayed there.

 

I don't know about salt solution.

 

I keep my suspension in the fridge for 2 days now. Xanax I kept for 4 days and that would be some kind of maximum I was comfortable with. I was lucky that I didn't worry about the whole process so much.

 

How have you been reducing so far?

Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2

2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013)

Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 
1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg.
2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg
went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days after
reinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours
28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr  2015 1 mg,  25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64  Xanax     9 month hold

24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26

Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic 

I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. 

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Maybe my pills have different coating layer than yours. I doubt it coating layer dissolve in water. When I am crushing the pill coating layer is clearly separated from powder, but I try to mix random particles, and I get all to a capsule. Before this I weigh empty capsule few times for assurance. Next I put mixed powder to this capsule and I check the difference in weight few times to have average result. 

 

The next problem I will have it is that I take my dose after 8 A. M. I am in work at this time, and it would be little problematic to transport dose in liquid and draw by syringe in work. 

3/21/2014 - Escitalopram Actavis 5mg (half of a pill) every day. 

6/1/2014 - Escitalopram 10mg  

2/1/2015 - Escitalopram  5mg  

3/1/2015  Escitalopram 5mg /every 2 days, every 3 days... up to every 6 days

6/30/2015 trying to withdraw totally - I kept waiting until the eleventh day but withdrawal was too strong so reinstated 

7/2/2015 Escitalopram 5mg / every 6 days 

8/27/2015 - Increasing to Escitalopram 2.5mg / per day - a lot of withdrawal symptoms , not sure what to do ....

2015:  12/30 - 2.2mg; 
2016:  2/2 - 1.9mg  4/9 - 1.7mg  5/10 - 1.55mg  6/11 - 1.4mg  7/3 - 1.25mg  7/24 - 1.1mg  8/16 - 1.0mg  9/7 - 0.9mg
2017:  1/24 - 0.8mg  2/14 - 0.7mg  3/4 - 0.64mg  3/19 - 0.58mg  3/30 - 0.53mg  4/16 - 0.48mg  4/29 - 0.43mg  5/26 - 0.37mg  7/1 - 0.32mg  8/6 - 0.26mg  27/08 - 0.21mg  
2018:  2/16 - 0.186mg;  (change to liquid) 3/19 - 0.145mg  4/3 - 0.13mg  4/22 - 0.12mg, lower doses afeter, 09/15 - try to witdraw completelly, but feel that i must reinstate - up to about 1.9mg to 2020/09 but the dose whole time was wrong because I store drug in refrigarator during most of the time - that was big mistake. Next mistake was to reinstate 1.9 mg instead of start from lower doses because doses from drug stored in refrigarator were disturbed. After 3 weeks i find out that i must go down and go down to 2021/06. 2021/06 Going down from 1mg to 0.4 in 2 weeks when I feel that that dose became to high. I started to feeling better then at about 0.4mg after, I started feeling that drug too high dose symptoms starting to let go in few days.
2021/06/05 - next mistake - I take 2 days levocetirizine for allergy, after 2 days crash, symptoms like on too high doses.
2021/06/07 - 2021/06/16 - 0.4mg - 0.1mg
2021/06/17 - 2021/06/20 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.1 - 0.6mg, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/06/21 - 2021/06/28 - 0.6mg - 0.12mg
2021/06/29 - 2021/06/30 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.13 - 0.3, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/07/01 -2021/07/14 - 0.3 - 0.12mg
2021/07/15 - 2021/07/19 - 0.12 - 0.01mg - still I feel too high dose effects, some withdrawal symptoms like dizziness, but they let go and more and more too high dose effects, therfore I go down with dose
 
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I have other issues with making suspension. If I want to make suspension from whole pill (10mg) or half of a pill (5mg - but this make some inaccuracy). From this it follows that I will have to make a suspension for 25 days. Sorry if I don't understand something, but my brain doesn't function well. 

 

Other issue which I don't understand completly is that last time when weekend comes I'm in a nightmare. During last 3 weeks and not only, whole week isn't as bad as days at the weekend. From Monday to Friday I am able to work ,maybe not so effectively as I would want, but quite good I think. This friday I was already sleepy after 19 P.M  and I went to bed about 20. I woke, up at midnight, and next about 4 A.M and finally about 8 A.M. At Saturday after 14-15 I wasn't able to do anything and I have low energy, some anxiety, tense, nervousness, aggressiveness, irritability. I also cursed  and can't stop ponder my childish foolish past mistakes which lead me to this situation. I am not able to accurately define symptoms of this attack, but at all It didn't allow me to anything engaging mind. What surprised me is that this attack lasted so long and it was so difficult to bear as never before. It doesn't match to windows and waves pattern. Being on this dose have lasted for almost 3 months and I see that there is less and less windows, and waves aren't better to bear and shorter. Probably my earlier too fast changes affect how I feel now. I haven't noticed that before, because I thought that my sensitivity on drug, side effects or something like this causes  mostly symptoms. I feel that I'm trapped. Now I can't doing any sport, can't meet with friends, general condition of my health getting worse. It has all worsened in recent 2-3 months and I don't see any signals to improve, although I don't use caffeine and I have very healthy diet.

 

Are so bad weekends, similar to last can caused by whole work week? Maybe from this reasons to have possibility to recover, Would it be the best to stop working? I feel that this waves are more severe than before. Is it only time issue to achieve stabilization or I have to increase dosage - in another way isn't possible to stabilize? 

3/21/2014 - Escitalopram Actavis 5mg (half of a pill) every day. 

6/1/2014 - Escitalopram 10mg  

2/1/2015 - Escitalopram  5mg  

3/1/2015  Escitalopram 5mg /every 2 days, every 3 days... up to every 6 days

6/30/2015 trying to withdraw totally - I kept waiting until the eleventh day but withdrawal was too strong so reinstated 

7/2/2015 Escitalopram 5mg / every 6 days 

8/27/2015 - Increasing to Escitalopram 2.5mg / per day - a lot of withdrawal symptoms , not sure what to do ....

2015:  12/30 - 2.2mg; 
2016:  2/2 - 1.9mg  4/9 - 1.7mg  5/10 - 1.55mg  6/11 - 1.4mg  7/3 - 1.25mg  7/24 - 1.1mg  8/16 - 1.0mg  9/7 - 0.9mg
2017:  1/24 - 0.8mg  2/14 - 0.7mg  3/4 - 0.64mg  3/19 - 0.58mg  3/30 - 0.53mg  4/16 - 0.48mg  4/29 - 0.43mg  5/26 - 0.37mg  7/1 - 0.32mg  8/6 - 0.26mg  27/08 - 0.21mg  
2018:  2/16 - 0.186mg;  (change to liquid) 3/19 - 0.145mg  4/3 - 0.13mg  4/22 - 0.12mg, lower doses afeter, 09/15 - try to witdraw completelly, but feel that i must reinstate - up to about 1.9mg to 2020/09 but the dose whole time was wrong because I store drug in refrigarator during most of the time - that was big mistake. Next mistake was to reinstate 1.9 mg instead of start from lower doses because doses from drug stored in refrigarator were disturbed. After 3 weeks i find out that i must go down and go down to 2021/06. 2021/06 Going down from 1mg to 0.4 in 2 weeks when I feel that that dose became to high. I started to feeling better then at about 0.4mg after, I started feeling that drug too high dose symptoms starting to let go in few days.
2021/06/05 - next mistake - I take 2 days levocetirizine for allergy, after 2 days crash, symptoms like on too high doses.
2021/06/07 - 2021/06/16 - 0.4mg - 0.1mg
2021/06/17 - 2021/06/20 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.1 - 0.6mg, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/06/21 - 2021/06/28 - 0.6mg - 0.12mg
2021/06/29 - 2021/06/30 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.13 - 0.3, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/07/01 -2021/07/14 - 0.3 - 0.12mg
2021/07/15 - 2021/07/19 - 0.12 - 0.01mg - still I feel too high dose effects, some withdrawal symptoms like dizziness, but they let go and more and more too high dose effects, therfore I go down with dose
 
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  • 3 weeks later...

I would be very grateful If someone could help me in some troubling me issue.

 

I've already read 2 responses about making solution for few days to be sure of dose stability in solution. Having a half of a pill with 5mg of escitalopram I have to measure around 0.2mg which means that I will have solution for more than 20 days. Will it be good idea to make solution for so long time? I have no idea how measure accurate doses only for few days.

 

Generally, I've tried with old escitalopram pill with water and it looked not so bad as I thought so far with drawing by syringe but this drug is expired.  However, this pill which I am taking so far has other coating layer which doesn't disintegrates so good. 

 

I don't know how could I change a form of the drug from powder to suspension with the same dose. I have been writing that I measure 4mg of powder which is around 0.21mg dose. Surely it isn't very accurate and it's possible that I am taking average about 0.23mg. I don't know how big dose i would have to take to have chance for reach stabilization and not to worsen my situation. I had to take a leave in my work from today for 3 days - in Monday first time I had so strong brain fog that I couldn't do anything most of the time. It would seem that withdrawal syndrome shoud come off after more than 3 months on the same dose, but sometimes they are stronger than these which I've had so far. I don't know what is the reason for this. Is it possible that reason is less and less accurate dose? Generally I feel stronger symptoms despite the same dose. A lot of my symptoms are similar and even the same as I had  2 years ago when I was on too big dose. Then when finally I started tapering I felt significant improvement week after week and some most of the symptoms were going away. Therefore I am confused and I sometims associate symptoms with too big dose and that my body is too sensitive for the drug.

3/21/2014 - Escitalopram Actavis 5mg (half of a pill) every day. 

6/1/2014 - Escitalopram 10mg  

2/1/2015 - Escitalopram  5mg  

3/1/2015  Escitalopram 5mg /every 2 days, every 3 days... up to every 6 days

6/30/2015 trying to withdraw totally - I kept waiting until the eleventh day but withdrawal was too strong so reinstated 

7/2/2015 Escitalopram 5mg / every 6 days 

8/27/2015 - Increasing to Escitalopram 2.5mg / per day - a lot of withdrawal symptoms , not sure what to do ....

2015:  12/30 - 2.2mg; 
2016:  2/2 - 1.9mg  4/9 - 1.7mg  5/10 - 1.55mg  6/11 - 1.4mg  7/3 - 1.25mg  7/24 - 1.1mg  8/16 - 1.0mg  9/7 - 0.9mg
2017:  1/24 - 0.8mg  2/14 - 0.7mg  3/4 - 0.64mg  3/19 - 0.58mg  3/30 - 0.53mg  4/16 - 0.48mg  4/29 - 0.43mg  5/26 - 0.37mg  7/1 - 0.32mg  8/6 - 0.26mg  27/08 - 0.21mg  
2018:  2/16 - 0.186mg;  (change to liquid) 3/19 - 0.145mg  4/3 - 0.13mg  4/22 - 0.12mg, lower doses afeter, 09/15 - try to witdraw completelly, but feel that i must reinstate - up to about 1.9mg to 2020/09 but the dose whole time was wrong because I store drug in refrigarator during most of the time - that was big mistake. Next mistake was to reinstate 1.9 mg instead of start from lower doses because doses from drug stored in refrigarator were disturbed. After 3 weeks i find out that i must go down and go down to 2021/06. 2021/06 Going down from 1mg to 0.4 in 2 weeks when I feel that that dose became to high. I started to feeling better then at about 0.4mg after, I started feeling that drug too high dose symptoms starting to let go in few days.
2021/06/05 - next mistake - I take 2 days levocetirizine for allergy, after 2 days crash, symptoms like on too high doses.
2021/06/07 - 2021/06/16 - 0.4mg - 0.1mg
2021/06/17 - 2021/06/20 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.1 - 0.6mg, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/06/21 - 2021/06/28 - 0.6mg - 0.12mg
2021/06/29 - 2021/06/30 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.13 - 0.3, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/07/01 -2021/07/14 - 0.3 - 0.12mg
2021/07/15 - 2021/07/19 - 0.12 - 0.01mg - still I feel too high dose effects, some withdrawal symptoms like dizziness, but they let go and more and more too high dose effects, therfore I go down with dose
 
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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi,

Please, if somebody could give me some advices, I will be very grateful . I am very confused in my situation and I don't know what should I do to don't make a mistake . Now I feel that If I would continue my measurement method by digital scale or I would change this method to liquid I will do mistakes.  My symptoms considerably increased - it cause that I fired myself from work. Last night I've slept for more than 12 hours with few awakenings and during the day I was very sleepy and sluggish and I didn't function completely and similar days are more frequent. I have one dose for 4 months and windows are shorter and shorter and worse and waves are longer and stronger. Could it caused by inaccurate measurement method?  Please, help me in the following issues:

  1. How can I choose dose If I want to change it to liquid form? I have for 4 months 4mg of powder on digital scale but measuremet error may cause that it was for 4 months for example 4.4mg, 4.2mg or other amount of powder in average ( I don't know how much). When I choose for example 4.2mg in liquid I don't know whether it will be more or less than before or equal.
  2. My dose is so small that half of a pill is equivalent of more than 20 doses. Will it be safe to make suspension for more than 20 days? 

3/21/2014 - Escitalopram Actavis 5mg (half of a pill) every day. 

6/1/2014 - Escitalopram 10mg  

2/1/2015 - Escitalopram  5mg  

3/1/2015  Escitalopram 5mg /every 2 days, every 3 days... up to every 6 days

6/30/2015 trying to withdraw totally - I kept waiting until the eleventh day but withdrawal was too strong so reinstated 

7/2/2015 Escitalopram 5mg / every 6 days 

8/27/2015 - Increasing to Escitalopram 2.5mg / per day - a lot of withdrawal symptoms , not sure what to do ....

2015:  12/30 - 2.2mg; 
2016:  2/2 - 1.9mg  4/9 - 1.7mg  5/10 - 1.55mg  6/11 - 1.4mg  7/3 - 1.25mg  7/24 - 1.1mg  8/16 - 1.0mg  9/7 - 0.9mg
2017:  1/24 - 0.8mg  2/14 - 0.7mg  3/4 - 0.64mg  3/19 - 0.58mg  3/30 - 0.53mg  4/16 - 0.48mg  4/29 - 0.43mg  5/26 - 0.37mg  7/1 - 0.32mg  8/6 - 0.26mg  27/08 - 0.21mg  
2018:  2/16 - 0.186mg;  (change to liquid) 3/19 - 0.145mg  4/3 - 0.13mg  4/22 - 0.12mg, lower doses afeter, 09/15 - try to witdraw completelly, but feel that i must reinstate - up to about 1.9mg to 2020/09 but the dose whole time was wrong because I store drug in refrigarator during most of the time - that was big mistake. Next mistake was to reinstate 1.9 mg instead of start from lower doses because doses from drug stored in refrigarator were disturbed. After 3 weeks i find out that i must go down and go down to 2021/06. 2021/06 Going down from 1mg to 0.4 in 2 weeks when I feel that that dose became to high. I started to feeling better then at about 0.4mg after, I started feeling that drug too high dose symptoms starting to let go in few days.
2021/06/05 - next mistake - I take 2 days levocetirizine for allergy, after 2 days crash, symptoms like on too high doses.
2021/06/07 - 2021/06/16 - 0.4mg - 0.1mg
2021/06/17 - 2021/06/20 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.1 - 0.6mg, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/06/21 - 2021/06/28 - 0.6mg - 0.12mg
2021/06/29 - 2021/06/30 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.13 - 0.3, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/07/01 -2021/07/14 - 0.3 - 0.12mg
2021/07/15 - 2021/07/19 - 0.12 - 0.01mg - still I feel too high dose effects, some withdrawal symptoms like dizziness, but they let go and more and more too high dose effects, therfore I go down with dose
 
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Hi Dave. What dose are you on now?  How have you been tapering? Have you been weighing and you want to switch to liquid ~ is that correct? As far as I know ~ it only lasts about 4 days in the fridge - is that what you mean? Can you possibly explain a little more of what you need to know?  

Many SSRI's and SSNRI's over 20 years. Zoloft for 7 years followed by Effexor, Lexapro, Prozac, Cymbalta, Celexa, Pristiq, Valdoxan, Mianserin and more - on and off. No tapering. Cold turkey off Valdoxan - end of May 2014

 

                                                  Psych Drug - free since May 2014
.
         

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Hi AliG. Maybe I am writing a bit chaotically. My dose is now 0.21mg of escitalopram as is mentioned in my signature and I'm on it for nearly 4 months. This dose is equivalent of 4mg powder.

I don't know if my symptoms result from inacurate measuremet of dose or they are withdrawal symptoms which have increased with time delay or from long hold of escitalopram. If they result from inacurate measuremet by weighing I would have to switch my dosage form to liquid which I tried sometime but it also hasn't seemed to be accurate.

 

The problem is that what dose in liquid should I take? Greater, smaller or equal? I can not tell which dose I am actually taking by weighing (it's inaccurate) so I can't choose the same dose in liquid.

 

The second question is that half of a pill has 5mg of escitalopram and I take 0.21mg so when I want to choose liquid I have to make it for more than 20 days. Will it be safe to prepare suspension for so long time? Will this suspension not lose its stability? I would not pour out a rest of liquid after 4-5 days.

 

Moreover, my current symptoms are similar to these when I was on too big dose for me. It is misleading for me, because then I taper further and I felt better and better when I cut my dose. I don't know what sould I do because I don't know what is the main factor which cause now so severe symptoms. LexAnger wrote on the top of this page:

 

On 22.01.2017 at 11:34 PM, LexAnger said:

My best bet is, you will feel better resuming tapering. Sleepiness and sluggish is a major side effect for me from Lexapro, and long hold will make it worse.

Definitely don't go back to more or any new drugs, you are almost there, you are only confused because you think every symptom is from WD while actually not.

 

If you continue the rest journey getting down with dose, you probably will be out of the woods this year.

 

When LexAnger wrote it, I cut down dose and it was good choice - symptoms decreased. Then I hold long (more than 4 months) the same dose and a lot of symptoms increased and when I cut down dose symptoms significantly decreased. Now I feel similar symptoms but i don't know if they result from withdrawal or from long hold of dose.

3/21/2014 - Escitalopram Actavis 5mg (half of a pill) every day. 

6/1/2014 - Escitalopram 10mg  

2/1/2015 - Escitalopram  5mg  

3/1/2015  Escitalopram 5mg /every 2 days, every 3 days... up to every 6 days

6/30/2015 trying to withdraw totally - I kept waiting until the eleventh day but withdrawal was too strong so reinstated 

7/2/2015 Escitalopram 5mg / every 6 days 

8/27/2015 - Increasing to Escitalopram 2.5mg / per day - a lot of withdrawal symptoms , not sure what to do ....

2015:  12/30 - 2.2mg; 
2016:  2/2 - 1.9mg  4/9 - 1.7mg  5/10 - 1.55mg  6/11 - 1.4mg  7/3 - 1.25mg  7/24 - 1.1mg  8/16 - 1.0mg  9/7 - 0.9mg
2017:  1/24 - 0.8mg  2/14 - 0.7mg  3/4 - 0.64mg  3/19 - 0.58mg  3/30 - 0.53mg  4/16 - 0.48mg  4/29 - 0.43mg  5/26 - 0.37mg  7/1 - 0.32mg  8/6 - 0.26mg  27/08 - 0.21mg  
2018:  2/16 - 0.186mg;  (change to liquid) 3/19 - 0.145mg  4/3 - 0.13mg  4/22 - 0.12mg, lower doses afeter, 09/15 - try to witdraw completelly, but feel that i must reinstate - up to about 1.9mg to 2020/09 but the dose whole time was wrong because I store drug in refrigarator during most of the time - that was big mistake. Next mistake was to reinstate 1.9 mg instead of start from lower doses because doses from drug stored in refrigarator were disturbed. After 3 weeks i find out that i must go down and go down to 2021/06. 2021/06 Going down from 1mg to 0.4 in 2 weeks when I feel that that dose became to high. I started to feeling better then at about 0.4mg after, I started feeling that drug too high dose symptoms starting to let go in few days.
2021/06/05 - next mistake - I take 2 days levocetirizine for allergy, after 2 days crash, symptoms like on too high doses.
2021/06/07 - 2021/06/16 - 0.4mg - 0.1mg
2021/06/17 - 2021/06/20 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.1 - 0.6mg, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/06/21 - 2021/06/28 - 0.6mg - 0.12mg
2021/06/29 - 2021/06/30 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.13 - 0.3, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/07/01 -2021/07/14 - 0.3 - 0.12mg
2021/07/15 - 2021/07/19 - 0.12 - 0.01mg - still I feel too high dose effects, some withdrawal symptoms like dizziness, but they let go and more and more too high dose effects, therfore I go down with dose
 
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Simply I want to know if may I make suspension for so long time like more than 20 days? Will dose be stable in so long time? If I can make liquid for max. 5 days it worries me that I will be forced to pour out the rest of liquid so drug will be wasted.

 

The second issue is that I can't notice what is the main factor causes my symptoms. Surely it is mix of factors, but I don't know what factor is the most harmful. It may be: withdrawal, long holding of drug or side effects or inaccurate measurement of dose. Therefore I am confused about what should I do. There are these options: stay at weighing (inaccurate measurement) or making liquid. I am confused because I'm not able to tell what is the main factor of symptoms so I am confused about what dose should I choose when I want switch to liquid.  I won't have good comparison with dose between dose in powder and in liquid - dose in liquid surely will be different, because of inaccuracy of my current measurement method. Therefore I am confused that I won't be able to interpret my possbile symptoms after switching to liquid.

3/21/2014 - Escitalopram Actavis 5mg (half of a pill) every day. 

6/1/2014 - Escitalopram 10mg  

2/1/2015 - Escitalopram  5mg  

3/1/2015  Escitalopram 5mg /every 2 days, every 3 days... up to every 6 days

6/30/2015 trying to withdraw totally - I kept waiting until the eleventh day but withdrawal was too strong so reinstated 

7/2/2015 Escitalopram 5mg / every 6 days 

8/27/2015 - Increasing to Escitalopram 2.5mg / per day - a lot of withdrawal symptoms , not sure what to do ....

2015:  12/30 - 2.2mg; 
2016:  2/2 - 1.9mg  4/9 - 1.7mg  5/10 - 1.55mg  6/11 - 1.4mg  7/3 - 1.25mg  7/24 - 1.1mg  8/16 - 1.0mg  9/7 - 0.9mg
2017:  1/24 - 0.8mg  2/14 - 0.7mg  3/4 - 0.64mg  3/19 - 0.58mg  3/30 - 0.53mg  4/16 - 0.48mg  4/29 - 0.43mg  5/26 - 0.37mg  7/1 - 0.32mg  8/6 - 0.26mg  27/08 - 0.21mg  
2018:  2/16 - 0.186mg;  (change to liquid) 3/19 - 0.145mg  4/3 - 0.13mg  4/22 - 0.12mg, lower doses afeter, 09/15 - try to witdraw completelly, but feel that i must reinstate - up to about 1.9mg to 2020/09 but the dose whole time was wrong because I store drug in refrigarator during most of the time - that was big mistake. Next mistake was to reinstate 1.9 mg instead of start from lower doses because doses from drug stored in refrigarator were disturbed. After 3 weeks i find out that i must go down and go down to 2021/06. 2021/06 Going down from 1mg to 0.4 in 2 weeks when I feel that that dose became to high. I started to feeling better then at about 0.4mg after, I started feeling that drug too high dose symptoms starting to let go in few days.
2021/06/05 - next mistake - I take 2 days levocetirizine for allergy, after 2 days crash, symptoms like on too high doses.
2021/06/07 - 2021/06/16 - 0.4mg - 0.1mg
2021/06/17 - 2021/06/20 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.1 - 0.6mg, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/06/21 - 2021/06/28 - 0.6mg - 0.12mg
2021/06/29 - 2021/06/30 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.13 - 0.3, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/07/01 -2021/07/14 - 0.3 - 0.12mg
2021/07/15 - 2021/07/19 - 0.12 - 0.01mg - still I feel too high dose effects, some withdrawal symptoms like dizziness, but they let go and more and more too high dose effects, therfore I go down with dose
 
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  • Moderator

Hi David-- I would not recommend keeping a homemade liquid solution for 20 days.  The risks of drug deterioration and spoilage are just too great. 

 

The dose of either the powder or the liquid would be the same.  Because of the inaccuracy of the scales you would have to use the calculated dose weight and not what every the scales are telling you.  So in this case you would take enough liquid to give you 0.21mgai.  You would then have to wait to stabilize at that dose to make up for the problems with the scales and get on an even footing.

 

The only possible advantage of switching to a liquid at this point would be the ability to make very fine tuned small drops is dosage.  The question is, is it worth the time and trouble to switch to the liquid to gain that control?  The symptoms from both methods will be the same, possibly a little milder if very small changes are made by using the liquid.  No matter what, there are going to be symptoms.  Switching to the liquid must be treated as a "dose change event", so just changing over will take a minimum of 4-6 weeks before you can think of tapering again.  Many people then find that they can't tolerate the liquid and it severely increases their symptoms.  They then have to switch back to the powder and restabilize, which can take many months, before they can resume their taper.  So it comes down to a matter of are my symptoms bad enough to warrant the change.

 

Working through the tiny doses at the end of a taper is one of the hardest parts of doing any taper.  The tiny amounts of powder and the inaccuracy of the scales can be very frustrating, and even these small drops can cause a spike in symptoms. It's very important to have an end point in view.  There is going to come a time when you have to make a 100% cut and jump to "0".  For practical reasons, using the materials you have available that's going to be 0.05mg.  This is 1mg or powder.  Because of the limitations of the scales you would weigh out 4mg of powder and visually divide it into quarters.

 

Looking through your signature something really jumps out at me.  Even though you've been holding your current dose for several months, for the past year to 18 months you've been tapering very fast.  I haven't plotted it on a calendar, but it looks like on average three weeks between drops.  This rate doesn't allow the body to adapt to the changes quickly enough and causes a backlog to build up.  This backlog show itself by a sudden severe increase in symptoms. There are two things that can be done. The first is to wait it out, let the symptoms stabilize and resolve or to do a small updose to try to decrease the symptoms then let them stabilize and resolve.  Either way a long holding period is required before any more tapering can be attempted.

 

I hope that helps a little.

 

Brassmonkey

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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  • 1 month later...

Hi, 

I am writring after nearly two months and I haven't good news - I am totally confused. I am at the same dose from nearly 6 months. Generally most of the symptoms not only that they didn't weakend, they have been steadily increasing.  Now my situation and symptoms become more and more similar to these which I have more than 2 years ago when I was on clearly too much dose. 

 

I am more and more physically weak, I am laying in bed often about 12 hours at night, and few hours at a day. I am extremely sleepy - more and more. You are writing that doing physical exercises is good for withdrawal, but problem is that I as time passes I am able to do less and less exercise. My muscles also are more tense and even short wam-up for 10 minutes or dozen of jumps stiffens the muscles and make me exhausted later, but even month ago I was able to run sometimes 3-4km now it isn't possible. Last few weeks it returned indecision which I has just when I was on too high dose. 

 

Most of my symptoms: sleepiness and sluggish, muscles tenses, exhaustion,  indecision, cool feet and hands, increasing anhedonia, indifference, apathy, shivers, disturbed feeling of hunger,sensitivity to sudden sounds, little increased hair loss, sometimes anger and hostility, losing enthusiasm and zeal for work, strange,random and chaotic thoughts while lying or napping, the dullness of the mind.

 

In above symptoms there is increasing trend for several month despite of being on the same dosage for nearly 6 months. It is possible that they would be cause by WD despite the fact that they become more and more similar to these which I had on too big dosage? I have feeling that they could result from long hold but I'm not sure. Year ago I also hold long time the same dosage (more than 4 months) and then also some of above symptoms intensified. Then I finally started to reduce dosage, symptoms weakened and I felt some relief. I wonder if similarity of symptoms may suggest problem with long holding in my case because of my history with this drug. It is possible that the same symptoms then result from too high dose and now rather from WD? As time passes Windows are shorter and worse and waves are longer and more severe. There is only worse with reference to above symptoms.

 

Symptoms more related to WD like anxiety or akathisia are rare. They were more often 1-2 months ago. Even 1-2 months ago there was some strange fear of doing some random activity. Last several weeks there wasn't such fear. Now when  I don't get to do something I don't do that because of loss of energy, enthusiasm, zeal.

 

Can I without big consequences updose to from 0.21mg to 0.26mg of  escitalopram ( from 4 to 5mg of powder) to see if symptoms will weaken and are related to WD or long hold? Will it be good test for it and how long should I see effects that show me if my severe symptoms are related more from long hold or WD?

3/21/2014 - Escitalopram Actavis 5mg (half of a pill) every day. 

6/1/2014 - Escitalopram 10mg  

2/1/2015 - Escitalopram  5mg  

3/1/2015  Escitalopram 5mg /every 2 days, every 3 days... up to every 6 days

6/30/2015 trying to withdraw totally - I kept waiting until the eleventh day but withdrawal was too strong so reinstated 

7/2/2015 Escitalopram 5mg / every 6 days 

8/27/2015 - Increasing to Escitalopram 2.5mg / per day - a lot of withdrawal symptoms , not sure what to do ....

2015:  12/30 - 2.2mg; 
2016:  2/2 - 1.9mg  4/9 - 1.7mg  5/10 - 1.55mg  6/11 - 1.4mg  7/3 - 1.25mg  7/24 - 1.1mg  8/16 - 1.0mg  9/7 - 0.9mg
2017:  1/24 - 0.8mg  2/14 - 0.7mg  3/4 - 0.64mg  3/19 - 0.58mg  3/30 - 0.53mg  4/16 - 0.48mg  4/29 - 0.43mg  5/26 - 0.37mg  7/1 - 0.32mg  8/6 - 0.26mg  27/08 - 0.21mg  
2018:  2/16 - 0.186mg;  (change to liquid) 3/19 - 0.145mg  4/3 - 0.13mg  4/22 - 0.12mg, lower doses afeter, 09/15 - try to witdraw completelly, but feel that i must reinstate - up to about 1.9mg to 2020/09 but the dose whole time was wrong because I store drug in refrigarator during most of the time - that was big mistake. Next mistake was to reinstate 1.9 mg instead of start from lower doses because doses from drug stored in refrigarator were disturbed. After 3 weeks i find out that i must go down and go down to 2021/06. 2021/06 Going down from 1mg to 0.4 in 2 weeks when I feel that that dose became to high. I started to feeling better then at about 0.4mg after, I started feeling that drug too high dose symptoms starting to let go in few days.
2021/06/05 - next mistake - I take 2 days levocetirizine for allergy, after 2 days crash, symptoms like on too high doses.
2021/06/07 - 2021/06/16 - 0.4mg - 0.1mg
2021/06/17 - 2021/06/20 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.1 - 0.6mg, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/06/21 - 2021/06/28 - 0.6mg - 0.12mg
2021/06/29 - 2021/06/30 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.13 - 0.3, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/07/01 -2021/07/14 - 0.3 - 0.12mg
2021/07/15 - 2021/07/19 - 0.12 - 0.01mg - still I feel too high dose effects, some withdrawal symptoms like dizziness, but they let go and more and more too high dose effects, therfore I go down with dose
 
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  • Moderator Emeritus
2 hours ago, davidcpp said:

In above symptoms there is increasing trend for several month despite of being on the same dosage for nearly 6 months. It is possible that they would be cause by WD despite the fact that they become more and more similar to these which I had on too big dosage? I have feeling that they could result from long hold but I'm not sure. Year ago I also hold long time the same dosage (more than 4 months) and then also some of above symptoms intensified. Then I finally started to reduce dosage, symptoms weakened and I felt some relief. I wonder if similarity of symptoms may suggest problem with long holding in my case because of my history with this drug. It is possible that the same symptoms then result from too high dose and now rather from WD? As time passes Windows are shorter and worse and waves are longer and more severe. There is only worse with reference to above symptoms.

 

In this paragraph you are saying that your symptoms worsen the longer you hold.

 

2 hours ago, davidcpp said:

Can I without big consequences updose to from 0.21mg to 0.26mg of  escitalopram ( from 4 to 5mg of powder) to see if symptoms will weaken and are related to WD or long hold? Will it be good test for it and how long should I see effects that show me if my severe symptoms are related more from long hold or WD?

 

In this paragraph you are talking about trying an INCREASE in your dose.

 

 

My personal opinion is that it may be better, and safer, to try a small DECREASE.  Antidepressant Tolerance Withdrawal or "Poop Out" While Tapering

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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Sorry,

I didn't express clearly what I mean. I try to recognize well what are main causes of my constantly growing severe symptoms not to increase them even more.

 

I was wondering if is it possible to test upodsing for some period of time to check if my symptoms result from too fast WD or from long hold/being to sensitive for this drug. However, it was a stupid idea. I'm trying all the time to recognize that but I'm not sure so far. I was talking  about increase supposedly, but I don't want to updose - it's too risky with my drug changes history.  However, It also seems to me that it will be better to make drop in dosage. I am on the same dosage for 5-6 months and so I've write in my recent post windows and waves pattern ceases to occur. It seems to me that i have reverse tolerance of the drug - drug works stronger than before, but it is only my amateur hypothesis. I think that because my symptoms become similar to that when I overdose.

 

Another issue is that I don't know how make next small decrease. With powder it is only possible to do drop from 4mg to 3mg  (of whole powder not same drug). When I want to decrease by smaller part of drug I have to start with making liquid suspension. brassmonkey  warned that I could to don't tolerate the liquid and it could severely increases symptoms. With powder I would have to measure its amount for 4 days - 15mg for example and visually divide it into quarters (each 3.75mg), but I don't know if it's good idea - it would be very imprecise I think. What will be the best solution? I don't want to make some next mistakes - my situation is already severe.

3/21/2014 - Escitalopram Actavis 5mg (half of a pill) every day. 

6/1/2014 - Escitalopram 10mg  

2/1/2015 - Escitalopram  5mg  

3/1/2015  Escitalopram 5mg /every 2 days, every 3 days... up to every 6 days

6/30/2015 trying to withdraw totally - I kept waiting until the eleventh day but withdrawal was too strong so reinstated 

7/2/2015 Escitalopram 5mg / every 6 days 

8/27/2015 - Increasing to Escitalopram 2.5mg / per day - a lot of withdrawal symptoms , not sure what to do ....

2015:  12/30 - 2.2mg; 
2016:  2/2 - 1.9mg  4/9 - 1.7mg  5/10 - 1.55mg  6/11 - 1.4mg  7/3 - 1.25mg  7/24 - 1.1mg  8/16 - 1.0mg  9/7 - 0.9mg
2017:  1/24 - 0.8mg  2/14 - 0.7mg  3/4 - 0.64mg  3/19 - 0.58mg  3/30 - 0.53mg  4/16 - 0.48mg  4/29 - 0.43mg  5/26 - 0.37mg  7/1 - 0.32mg  8/6 - 0.26mg  27/08 - 0.21mg  
2018:  2/16 - 0.186mg;  (change to liquid) 3/19 - 0.145mg  4/3 - 0.13mg  4/22 - 0.12mg, lower doses afeter, 09/15 - try to witdraw completelly, but feel that i must reinstate - up to about 1.9mg to 2020/09 but the dose whole time was wrong because I store drug in refrigarator during most of the time - that was big mistake. Next mistake was to reinstate 1.9 mg instead of start from lower doses because doses from drug stored in refrigarator were disturbed. After 3 weeks i find out that i must go down and go down to 2021/06. 2021/06 Going down from 1mg to 0.4 in 2 weeks when I feel that that dose became to high. I started to feeling better then at about 0.4mg after, I started feeling that drug too high dose symptoms starting to let go in few days.
2021/06/05 - next mistake - I take 2 days levocetirizine for allergy, after 2 days crash, symptoms like on too high doses.
2021/06/07 - 2021/06/16 - 0.4mg - 0.1mg
2021/06/17 - 2021/06/20 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.1 - 0.6mg, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/06/21 - 2021/06/28 - 0.6mg - 0.12mg
2021/06/29 - 2021/06/30 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.13 - 0.3, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/07/01 -2021/07/14 - 0.3 - 0.12mg
2021/07/15 - 2021/07/19 - 0.12 - 0.01mg - still I feel too high dose effects, some withdrawal symptoms like dizziness, but they let go and more and more too high dose effects, therfore I go down with dose
 
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I am just wondering about the further method of measuring the dose. Will it be better to along with the change of the dosage to change form to liquid suspension (brassmonkey pointed out that there is a risk that liquid can severely increases symptoms)? Or maybe I could measure drug for 4 doses - for example 14mg of powder, divide it into 2 parts of 7mg and each of them divide visually for 2 doses of 3.5mg of powder? Another option is to go down from 4 to 3mg, but measuring of 3mg increases inaccuracy in doses.  I have no idea for other methods with my technical capabilities. I don't know what will be better.

3/21/2014 - Escitalopram Actavis 5mg (half of a pill) every day. 

6/1/2014 - Escitalopram 10mg  

2/1/2015 - Escitalopram  5mg  

3/1/2015  Escitalopram 5mg /every 2 days, every 3 days... up to every 6 days

6/30/2015 trying to withdraw totally - I kept waiting until the eleventh day but withdrawal was too strong so reinstated 

7/2/2015 Escitalopram 5mg / every 6 days 

8/27/2015 - Increasing to Escitalopram 2.5mg / per day - a lot of withdrawal symptoms , not sure what to do ....

2015:  12/30 - 2.2mg; 
2016:  2/2 - 1.9mg  4/9 - 1.7mg  5/10 - 1.55mg  6/11 - 1.4mg  7/3 - 1.25mg  7/24 - 1.1mg  8/16 - 1.0mg  9/7 - 0.9mg
2017:  1/24 - 0.8mg  2/14 - 0.7mg  3/4 - 0.64mg  3/19 - 0.58mg  3/30 - 0.53mg  4/16 - 0.48mg  4/29 - 0.43mg  5/26 - 0.37mg  7/1 - 0.32mg  8/6 - 0.26mg  27/08 - 0.21mg  
2018:  2/16 - 0.186mg;  (change to liquid) 3/19 - 0.145mg  4/3 - 0.13mg  4/22 - 0.12mg, lower doses afeter, 09/15 - try to witdraw completelly, but feel that i must reinstate - up to about 1.9mg to 2020/09 but the dose whole time was wrong because I store drug in refrigarator during most of the time - that was big mistake. Next mistake was to reinstate 1.9 mg instead of start from lower doses because doses from drug stored in refrigarator were disturbed. After 3 weeks i find out that i must go down and go down to 2021/06. 2021/06 Going down from 1mg to 0.4 in 2 weeks when I feel that that dose became to high. I started to feeling better then at about 0.4mg after, I started feeling that drug too high dose symptoms starting to let go in few days.
2021/06/05 - next mistake - I take 2 days levocetirizine for allergy, after 2 days crash, symptoms like on too high doses.
2021/06/07 - 2021/06/16 - 0.4mg - 0.1mg
2021/06/17 - 2021/06/20 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.1 - 0.6mg, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/06/21 - 2021/06/28 - 0.6mg - 0.12mg
2021/06/29 - 2021/06/30 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.13 - 0.3, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/07/01 -2021/07/14 - 0.3 - 0.12mg
2021/07/15 - 2021/07/19 - 0.12 - 0.01mg - still I feel too high dose effects, some withdrawal symptoms like dizziness, but they let go and more and more too high dose effects, therfore I go down with dose
 
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  • Moderator

An increase in symptoms from changing to a liquid is not a foregone conclusion.  I said "Many people then find that they can't tolerate the liquid and it severely increases their symptoms.".  This is a generality, it is not specific to you, but rather meant as an acknowledgement the the possibility is there.  

 

Unfortunately we are hampered by the inaccuracies of the equipment that we have available.  Making tiny adjustment in dose calls for using a liquid form of the medication.  If your symptoms are that pronounced and are so affected by a tiny change that would be the way to go. BUT there are some trade offs and warnings. It takes several weeks to a couple of months to make the change over. There is a chance that the liquid will not be tolerated and you would have to revert to the powder, restabilize and then continue your taper.  Also if you are so sensitive to the decreases then you may not be in a stable enough a condition to be decreasing at all and need to hold until you are.

 

The only other option is to manipulate the powder as best as you can to make up the doses.  As I mentioned before, the end of a taper is very trick to maneuver because all of our options are running out.  We just have to do the best we can with what we have and push ahead in the manner that our body tells us is working.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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Problem is that I supposed that problems are deeper when i long hold. Maybe my earlier history with jump on and off and overdose had impact on my situation. I don't think that i am very sensitive to decreases. Overdose caused the biggest problem in the past. When I was holding for 4 months a year ago it was increasing symptoms which now also increase. When I did then decrease I've felt weakness. I've read some users posts on the forum that also saw that after making too much updosing before holding deepens symptoms later. I think that now may be similar situation because now I have escalating of similar symptoms and they are lesser as more time pass during the day from taking dosage at the morning. As I wrote, there there is no trend to be waves and windows - i am losing physical energy and muscle strength constantly day after day. 

3/21/2014 - Escitalopram Actavis 5mg (half of a pill) every day. 

6/1/2014 - Escitalopram 10mg  

2/1/2015 - Escitalopram  5mg  

3/1/2015  Escitalopram 5mg /every 2 days, every 3 days... up to every 6 days

6/30/2015 trying to withdraw totally - I kept waiting until the eleventh day but withdrawal was too strong so reinstated 

7/2/2015 Escitalopram 5mg / every 6 days 

8/27/2015 - Increasing to Escitalopram 2.5mg / per day - a lot of withdrawal symptoms , not sure what to do ....

2015:  12/30 - 2.2mg; 
2016:  2/2 - 1.9mg  4/9 - 1.7mg  5/10 - 1.55mg  6/11 - 1.4mg  7/3 - 1.25mg  7/24 - 1.1mg  8/16 - 1.0mg  9/7 - 0.9mg
2017:  1/24 - 0.8mg  2/14 - 0.7mg  3/4 - 0.64mg  3/19 - 0.58mg  3/30 - 0.53mg  4/16 - 0.48mg  4/29 - 0.43mg  5/26 - 0.37mg  7/1 - 0.32mg  8/6 - 0.26mg  27/08 - 0.21mg  
2018:  2/16 - 0.186mg;  (change to liquid) 3/19 - 0.145mg  4/3 - 0.13mg  4/22 - 0.12mg, lower doses afeter, 09/15 - try to witdraw completelly, but feel that i must reinstate - up to about 1.9mg to 2020/09 but the dose whole time was wrong because I store drug in refrigarator during most of the time - that was big mistake. Next mistake was to reinstate 1.9 mg instead of start from lower doses because doses from drug stored in refrigarator were disturbed. After 3 weeks i find out that i must go down and go down to 2021/06. 2021/06 Going down from 1mg to 0.4 in 2 weeks when I feel that that dose became to high. I started to feeling better then at about 0.4mg after, I started feeling that drug too high dose symptoms starting to let go in few days.
2021/06/05 - next mistake - I take 2 days levocetirizine for allergy, after 2 days crash, symptoms like on too high doses.
2021/06/07 - 2021/06/16 - 0.4mg - 0.1mg
2021/06/17 - 2021/06/20 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.1 - 0.6mg, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/06/21 - 2021/06/28 - 0.6mg - 0.12mg
2021/06/29 - 2021/06/30 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.13 - 0.3, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/07/01 -2021/07/14 - 0.3 - 0.12mg
2021/07/15 - 2021/07/19 - 0.12 - 0.01mg - still I feel too high dose effects, some withdrawal symptoms like dizziness, but they let go and more and more too high dose effects, therfore I go down with dose
 
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It seems to me that I have now completly other pattern of symptoms than I see at other lexapro users. Anxiety and insomnia usually arise as withdrawal symptoms  on withdrawal. I have actually the opposite symptom to insomnia. Fatigue, sleepiness, loss of energy, sluggishness, lethargy are now unbearable. They are deeper and deeper. With great effort I write this post. Yesterday I was falling asleep at 6 PM. Today at 5 PM standing, I fell purposefully and inertly to the ground and I didn't have energy to get up. I have less and less energy.  Last few days I lay in my bed to 2-3 PM from morning. It has not happened to me for 2 years - from being on too high dose of the drug.   I haven't energy to do simple exercices, gymnastics or jumps. A week or two ago I was able to do exerices for abdominal muscles and hands. A month or two ago I was able to run 3-4km (although it was a big burden on the body).  I see that the most of users, even though they complain about their symptoms, are able to do sports during WD. For me, even doing simple things is an increasing effort, let alone sport. I do not even have the strength to ride a bike for 5 minutes.  A month ago, I was able to do programming for most days. In the last two weeks, it was only possible in a few days so  intellectually there is also a deterioration. I'm practically not able to deal with things that require creativity and make a number of decisions.

 

I practically do not function completely - only I lie in my bed, sleep, eat, drink and I watch some videos or I read something simple texts and that's all. I even rarely have the strength to sit down with a laptop. I usually lie in bed with a smartphone.

 

Yesterday and today, toothaches, headaches and slight jaw painthat I had never had before began. Also it occurs some strange sudden sexual arousal when I get sleepy - several times per day. It has already occurred early in the last two years but once in a while. In spite of my little activity, I am more hungry during the day than when I was working. 

 

I can't recognize the main source of my problem. I'm afraid to make a mistake now and take the wrong step. There are arguments on the side of long holding and on the side of WD. I am asking for tips on how to recognize this to be sure. Symptoms are becoming more and more acute and I know that something goes wrong and I don't know what. Is it possible at all that withdrawal symptoms get constantly deeper for months and suddenly get up from the bottom? I have  reverse windows and waves pattern - windows have disappeared as time passes and waves expanded and deteriorated. I don't know what I am doing wrong.

 

Can I be sure that these most sever symptoms(like sleepiness, sluggish, faitgue, loss of energy) are from long holding if they deepen? Is it possible at all that these symptoms may be delayed withdrawal symptoms? If they for sure from long holding I will decide to reduce the dosage. I hope that they don't result from the withdrawal - if they do I can't imagine that fatigue and sleepiness will get worse after reducing. It is already unbearable. However, If I would  looked at my symptoms maybe some anger, panic attacks or anxiety are extremely rare but these most severe symptoms have intensified. 

3/21/2014 - Escitalopram Actavis 5mg (half of a pill) every day. 

6/1/2014 - Escitalopram 10mg  

2/1/2015 - Escitalopram  5mg  

3/1/2015  Escitalopram 5mg /every 2 days, every 3 days... up to every 6 days

6/30/2015 trying to withdraw totally - I kept waiting until the eleventh day but withdrawal was too strong so reinstated 

7/2/2015 Escitalopram 5mg / every 6 days 

8/27/2015 - Increasing to Escitalopram 2.5mg / per day - a lot of withdrawal symptoms , not sure what to do ....

2015:  12/30 - 2.2mg; 
2016:  2/2 - 1.9mg  4/9 - 1.7mg  5/10 - 1.55mg  6/11 - 1.4mg  7/3 - 1.25mg  7/24 - 1.1mg  8/16 - 1.0mg  9/7 - 0.9mg
2017:  1/24 - 0.8mg  2/14 - 0.7mg  3/4 - 0.64mg  3/19 - 0.58mg  3/30 - 0.53mg  4/16 - 0.48mg  4/29 - 0.43mg  5/26 - 0.37mg  7/1 - 0.32mg  8/6 - 0.26mg  27/08 - 0.21mg  
2018:  2/16 - 0.186mg;  (change to liquid) 3/19 - 0.145mg  4/3 - 0.13mg  4/22 - 0.12mg, lower doses afeter, 09/15 - try to witdraw completelly, but feel that i must reinstate - up to about 1.9mg to 2020/09 but the dose whole time was wrong because I store drug in refrigarator during most of the time - that was big mistake. Next mistake was to reinstate 1.9 mg instead of start from lower doses because doses from drug stored in refrigarator were disturbed. After 3 weeks i find out that i must go down and go down to 2021/06. 2021/06 Going down from 1mg to 0.4 in 2 weeks when I feel that that dose became to high. I started to feeling better then at about 0.4mg after, I started feeling that drug too high dose symptoms starting to let go in few days.
2021/06/05 - next mistake - I take 2 days levocetirizine for allergy, after 2 days crash, symptoms like on too high doses.
2021/06/07 - 2021/06/16 - 0.4mg - 0.1mg
2021/06/17 - 2021/06/20 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.1 - 0.6mg, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/06/21 - 2021/06/28 - 0.6mg - 0.12mg
2021/06/29 - 2021/06/30 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.13 - 0.3, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/07/01 -2021/07/14 - 0.3 - 0.12mg
2021/07/15 - 2021/07/19 - 0.12 - 0.01mg - still I feel too high dose effects, some withdrawal symptoms like dizziness, but they let go and more and more too high dose effects, therfore I go down with dose
 
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I’ve been tapering from 5mg to 2.5 mg for 9 days now. I have low level dizziness that’s constant. A couple times a day the dizziness acts up more. Brain fog and motion issues. Does anyone else experience this and have you found anything that lessens the withdrawal symptoms? Thanks 

Nolabud1 - Mark

45 yr old male

Citalopram

Start date: December 20, 2017     5 mg

Taper date: February 6, 2018.      2.5 mg

Back up to 3 mg 2/16

Tapered to 2.5 mg 3/18/2018

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Hi davidcpp, 

 

I know your struggle. 

I had the exact same effects when I was on lex since I was kindled by one accidental updose. I was sleeping 10 hrs still hard to wake up plus other new sxs wver since then. Each time I drop dose, I would sleep less and I had to drop every day or 2 to get the effects. So I did the fast taper eventually stopped 5 months ago. I now sleep about 7-8 hrs, but my wd sxs are very intense. 

 

It seems your other sxs are from wd unfortunately. Its possibble you are like me stuck in between both WD and drug side effects. It's the hardest point to choose the right path now as you will be hit by either wd or side effects when in such situation.

 

I tried to stretch my dose as long as possible to avoid severe wd while also kept dropping dose to reduce the side effects. Even though, I still got hit badly from both. 

 

I did an extreme micro taper by cutting like 1% frequently to balance the two evils. If you are using liquid, it's possible to do this for the tiny dose you are taking now. I had to dilute the liquid by adding 100 ml water to get the needed measure. 

 

I have been following you often lately but hesitate to say much as it can't be pretty regardless and still a trial and error thing as always.

 

This whole thing is such a maze. Even now I look back, I still am not 100% sure what was caused by what, and if what I did is the best. I believe you are the one with the best judgment on your situation. 

Drug free Sep. 23 2017

2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks.

2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg

2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain

2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain;

2013 Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg by July. first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain

2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg,

2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on

2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks.

2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR

2016 Feb., started dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday 2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg,8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg, 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg

2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, 2/13--0.13mg, 2/20--0.06mg, 3/18--0.13mg, 6/1--0.12mg, 7/6--0.1mg, 7/14--0.08mg, 8/17--0.04mg, 8/20--0.03mg, 8/28--0.02mg, 9/6--0.0205mg, 9/8--0.02mg, 9/17--0.015mg, 9/20--0.01mg, 9/21--0.0048mg, 9/22--0.0001mg,

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Thanks a lot LexAnger! 

 

I was  wanting on your response to confront my assumptions on symptoms with your sentence. According to amount of information I've wrote about symptoms: I want to write as much as I can about symptoms, but firstly I was hardly writing yesterday post and surely it's chaotic. I didn't want to contain too much information to keep someone from getting lost, but as you say surely it's better to contain everything I've noticed. Secondly in last month in the most of days I was able to programming and therefore I didn't want to waste intellectually good time for other things. In moments when I wasn't programming I didn't have desire and enough strengh to write posts on the forum. 

 

I still have doubts reference to the best solution of tapering method in my current situation. Unfortunatelly it isn't possible to ensure 1% in cutting down. Assuming that I will even start to make liquid suspension it isn't possible to do that. Assuming that I can make safe liquid for 4 days (I suppose that more days will be unsafe). Even in this option I will have to measure the dosage for 4 days on the digital scale - at the moment it will be 16mg of powder, so it remains inaccuracy of the scale. In this case I estimete that max possible error will be around 3%. At smaller doses, max possible error will increase anyway, even to values exceeding 10%. I don't understand, how do you reach so accurate measuring with small dosages if it's possible to do liquid for max 4 days? It is possible only with oral solution not made in home or with wasting most of the drug powder. Let somebody correct me if I miss or skip something in my thinking.

 

The only other idea which I have is that I've mentioned in my earlier post:

On 13.02.2018 at 8:27 PM, davidcpp said:

Or maybe I could measure drug for 4 doses - for example 14mg of powder, divide it into 2 parts of 7mg and each of them divide visually for 2 doses of 3.5mg of powder? Another option is to go down from 4 to 3mg, but measuring of 3mg increases inaccuracy in doses. 

Practically going down even every 2% is now impossible with powder. With above method the smallest amount which I can reach is around 6.25% (from 4mg to 3.75mg of powder).  It is possibe with switching to liquid but in next cuts with liquid error will increase anyway as I wrote in my earlier statement. Thus I don't know if is beneficial to risk switching to homemade suspension liquid. 

 

Is it good idea to try with this method I wrote above? It is good idea to go down from 4mg to 3.5mg? Choosing 3.75mg cause that i have to divide 15mg into 4 doses what introduce little more error by dividing only visually on first stage to 7.5mg. Of course, with this method in the second stage  I have to divide powder visually but I can't avoid it anyway. I would avoid switch to liquid and wait next weeks or months on the same dosage - I won't can handle so strong side effects further, I'd rather to go through withdrawal symptoms what is unavoidable anyway.

 

Hi Longestroadhome,

How I feel during the day mainly results form the drug effects. I feel very well during the day several months of 2016 year - you could read it on prior pages of my topic. Then for example I did 100km bike ride. Then, except clearly wihtdrawal symptoms or side effects, I didn't have noticeable health problems - I had enough energy to work efficiently and to ride bike several dozen kilometers after work, 7-8 hours of sleep was enough - I woke up normally without problems. It's not like I've been feeling like now during the day for a very long time - last few months it clearly deepened and it's so strong that it couldn't be usual health problem. It results rather from long holding than from WD.

3/21/2014 - Escitalopram Actavis 5mg (half of a pill) every day. 

6/1/2014 - Escitalopram 10mg  

2/1/2015 - Escitalopram  5mg  

3/1/2015  Escitalopram 5mg /every 2 days, every 3 days... up to every 6 days

6/30/2015 trying to withdraw totally - I kept waiting until the eleventh day but withdrawal was too strong so reinstated 

7/2/2015 Escitalopram 5mg / every 6 days 

8/27/2015 - Increasing to Escitalopram 2.5mg / per day - a lot of withdrawal symptoms , not sure what to do ....

2015:  12/30 - 2.2mg; 
2016:  2/2 - 1.9mg  4/9 - 1.7mg  5/10 - 1.55mg  6/11 - 1.4mg  7/3 - 1.25mg  7/24 - 1.1mg  8/16 - 1.0mg  9/7 - 0.9mg
2017:  1/24 - 0.8mg  2/14 - 0.7mg  3/4 - 0.64mg  3/19 - 0.58mg  3/30 - 0.53mg  4/16 - 0.48mg  4/29 - 0.43mg  5/26 - 0.37mg  7/1 - 0.32mg  8/6 - 0.26mg  27/08 - 0.21mg  
2018:  2/16 - 0.186mg;  (change to liquid) 3/19 - 0.145mg  4/3 - 0.13mg  4/22 - 0.12mg, lower doses afeter, 09/15 - try to witdraw completelly, but feel that i must reinstate - up to about 1.9mg to 2020/09 but the dose whole time was wrong because I store drug in refrigarator during most of the time - that was big mistake. Next mistake was to reinstate 1.9 mg instead of start from lower doses because doses from drug stored in refrigarator were disturbed. After 3 weeks i find out that i must go down and go down to 2021/06. 2021/06 Going down from 1mg to 0.4 in 2 weeks when I feel that that dose became to high. I started to feeling better then at about 0.4mg after, I started feeling that drug too high dose symptoms starting to let go in few days.
2021/06/05 - next mistake - I take 2 days levocetirizine for allergy, after 2 days crash, symptoms like on too high doses.
2021/06/07 - 2021/06/16 - 0.4mg - 0.1mg
2021/06/17 - 2021/06/20 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.1 - 0.6mg, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/06/21 - 2021/06/28 - 0.6mg - 0.12mg
2021/06/29 - 2021/06/30 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.13 - 0.3, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/07/01 -2021/07/14 - 0.3 - 0.12mg
2021/07/15 - 2021/07/19 - 0.12 - 0.01mg - still I feel too high dose effects, some withdrawal symptoms like dizziness, but they let go and more and more too high dose effects, therfore I go down with dose
 
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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi,

 

I am writing because of deepening problems with stabilisation. I am on 3.5mg of powder (0.186mg of escitalopram) from more than 2 weeks. Last days more and more I've notice clearly impact of differences in measurement of the drug. I measure 7mg of powder on digital scale and divide it into two pieces visually supporting yourself with weight, but as I can see, the difference between doses is too high. I see that some days I am extremely sleepy and I don't have energy to do simple things in most of the day, let alone about mental and cognitive symptoms. This is surely result of side effect/long holding of the drug. In these days surely I taked more than 3.5mg of powder and difference then is such big to cause so strong side effect. Other days surely doses may be smaller than 3.5mg. Generally, mixed sympthoms prevent me any functioning, except for special days when  I am able to programming few hours during the day or do other not so engaging things.

 

Actually I am going to ask about issue with dosage. Maybe I will be able to get escitalopram in oral solution from the pharmacy, but I haven't know before that after opening bottle it is necessary to use liquid within 2 months. Could somebody who use pharmacy escitalopram liquid say if is it necessary to follow the instructions from leaflet? Could I use such liquid more than 2 months? How long If I could?

My issue is access to such liquid for next a lot of months  to reach 0mg dose, I would have to have prescription to several bottles and that is a problem.

 

If I would start homemade liquid could I switch smoothly in the future to oral solution from the pharmacy or then should I treat it as change form of the medication?

However, my situation shows that it will be extremely difficult to reach stabilisation because of too big inaccuracy of measurement. It probably causes continuous jumps between symptoms. If I won't have access to pharmacy oral solution for enough long time I will be forced to switch to homemade solution though I'm not convinced to accuracy of this method. I tried it yesterday but I had feeling that it doesn't give enough accuracy and I can't do that properly. I have fear that if I don't draw syringe fast enough to have right amount of liquid it will involve a lot of inaccuracy. It seems to me that from mixing of liquid I have only 2-4 seconds to draw syringe before particles of drug start to sink to the bottom. 

 

3/21/2014 - Escitalopram Actavis 5mg (half of a pill) every day. 

6/1/2014 - Escitalopram 10mg  

2/1/2015 - Escitalopram  5mg  

3/1/2015  Escitalopram 5mg /every 2 days, every 3 days... up to every 6 days

6/30/2015 trying to withdraw totally - I kept waiting until the eleventh day but withdrawal was too strong so reinstated 

7/2/2015 Escitalopram 5mg / every 6 days 

8/27/2015 - Increasing to Escitalopram 2.5mg / per day - a lot of withdrawal symptoms , not sure what to do ....

2015:  12/30 - 2.2mg; 
2016:  2/2 - 1.9mg  4/9 - 1.7mg  5/10 - 1.55mg  6/11 - 1.4mg  7/3 - 1.25mg  7/24 - 1.1mg  8/16 - 1.0mg  9/7 - 0.9mg
2017:  1/24 - 0.8mg  2/14 - 0.7mg  3/4 - 0.64mg  3/19 - 0.58mg  3/30 - 0.53mg  4/16 - 0.48mg  4/29 - 0.43mg  5/26 - 0.37mg  7/1 - 0.32mg  8/6 - 0.26mg  27/08 - 0.21mg  
2018:  2/16 - 0.186mg;  (change to liquid) 3/19 - 0.145mg  4/3 - 0.13mg  4/22 - 0.12mg, lower doses afeter, 09/15 - try to witdraw completelly, but feel that i must reinstate - up to about 1.9mg to 2020/09 but the dose whole time was wrong because I store drug in refrigarator during most of the time - that was big mistake. Next mistake was to reinstate 1.9 mg instead of start from lower doses because doses from drug stored in refrigarator were disturbed. After 3 weeks i find out that i must go down and go down to 2021/06. 2021/06 Going down from 1mg to 0.4 in 2 weeks when I feel that that dose became to high. I started to feeling better then at about 0.4mg after, I started feeling that drug too high dose symptoms starting to let go in few days.
2021/06/05 - next mistake - I take 2 days levocetirizine for allergy, after 2 days crash, symptoms like on too high doses.
2021/06/07 - 2021/06/16 - 0.4mg - 0.1mg
2021/06/17 - 2021/06/20 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.1 - 0.6mg, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/06/21 - 2021/06/28 - 0.6mg - 0.12mg
2021/06/29 - 2021/06/30 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.13 - 0.3, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/07/01 -2021/07/14 - 0.3 - 0.12mg
2021/07/15 - 2021/07/19 - 0.12 - 0.01mg - still I feel too high dose effects, some withdrawal symptoms like dizziness, but they let go and more and more too high dose effects, therfore I go down with dose
 
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I would jump off, if I were you. You are on a low dose now. Better to be stable at 0, than taking very low unstable dosages is my humble opinion. I got into severe problems by updosing small dosages, so I would recommend against that for sure. When I went up in dose, I got very severe akathisia, and that hasn't subsided very much since. So be very careful of further destabilising yourself. There are other people on here that got only better once off Lexapro (Icebat I think).

 

What I would do if I was you, is getting real original Lexapro oral solution from the pharmacy. I gives you a lot more peace of mind to know that this solution is accurate. You are then be able to dilute and take exactly the same dose, or when you should quit, reinstate very accurately later on. But please don't updose.

 

But wait for the mods, they could have a different opinion, and one that is founded on more experiences.

 

 

Origin of Panic Attack and Anxiety Disorder: Overdose of Hallucinogenic HOT-7.

2013-09 20mg escitalopram. In the 4 first months 0.5-1mg/day Alprazolam for sleep & difficult situations.

Tapered the first time from 20mg to 0mg in 17 months or so. Withdrawal 6-8 weeks after last dose. Didn't taper enough to low enough doses (+-1mg).

2015-01-02 Back on 10mg after one week of delayed withdrawal. Stable in 8 days.

Second time tapered 2 years from 10mg to 1.6mg. Stable for half a year in range 2.5mg-1.6mg.

2017-07-28 Measurement errors: went for 1-2 weeks on 2mg. Restlessness and anxiety. Tried back to go back to 1.7mg for 5 days. Anxiety stayed.

2017-08-03 - 2017-08-20 Switched to liquid Lexapro 20mg/ml (1 drop is 1mg). Updosed to 2mg hoping to stabilize. Horrible Panic and Anxiety. Hold for 17 days hoping to stabilize. Didn't work enough for me at the time.

2017-08-20 End of holiday approaching. No more time. Decision to up dose to 5mg escitalopram. Back to the pills. Tapering alprazolam.

A lot of side effects: Akathisia, more anxiety, very troubling sleep, every thought and movement gave me panic attacks. Worst time of my life. I did learn coping skills in this period. A lot. Mastering meditation, mastering floating technique and more Claire Weekes stuff... Can handle extreme anxiety pretty decent now.

2017-09-30 Going down again because holding got worse almost every day. ADVICE TO OTHER ESCITALOPRAM PEOPLE, if updose doesn't work in two weeks, go down again!!! WD is not as brutal as adverse updose effects! After every taper (while tapering pretty manageable, after couple weeks holding, akathisia and extreme anxiety came back)

2018-01-29 Got to ZERO. A hard way down for sure. And now hoping for improvements along the way... Tapering melatonin gave me dystonic reactions however.
14 months after zero: Alternating akathisia, dystonic reactions and WD. Very unstable. No meds whatsoever. 31 months after zero: dystonia got worse, still very high anxiety, and many symptoms... no healing in sight. Adverse reaction destroyed me.

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Sorry Davidcpp for missing responding to your questions. I am not in forum much lately.

 

i posted a response to the exact questions from frogie on my introduction on 3/1/2018. You can check on that for how I did the extreme tiny dose by diluting the liquid.

 

 

Drug free Sep. 23 2017

2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks.

2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg

2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain

2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain;

2013 Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg by July. first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain

2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg,

2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on

2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks.

2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR

2016 Feb., started dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday 2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg,8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg, 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg

2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, 2/13--0.13mg, 2/20--0.06mg, 3/18--0.13mg, 6/1--0.12mg, 7/6--0.1mg, 7/14--0.08mg, 8/17--0.04mg, 8/20--0.03mg, 8/28--0.02mg, 9/6--0.0205mg, 9/8--0.02mg, 9/17--0.015mg, 9/20--0.01mg, 9/21--0.0048mg, 9/22--0.0001mg,

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Thanks for reply TheWayBack,

 

I follow your topic last time, because I saw some similarity between our cases. I also thought that it will be the best to quickly reach 0 level. However, after my last decrease (only about 12.5%)  I saw that it won't be the best in my case. After 2-3 days It has started pain of left-down part of jaw, teeth and sore eyes. I've never felt this before.  After more week anger, fear, anxiety or panic attacks started to occur more often. During last 2 weeks I had clearly more often some restlessness, anxiety, akathisia, irritation, hostility, brain fog, indecision, stomach bloating. They were already very rare before changing the dose. For example akathisia, anxiety and restlessness attacks few days ago were so intense that I did not know what to do with myself and very difficult to bear. Therefore, now I don't think and don't feel that my CNS is ready to go to 0 - (go down about 12.5% cause quite strong symptoms).  I'll try switch to stable dose in liquid and I feel that It may be the best way to reach better condition. I see hope because I've noticed some things that have improved last few months despite of general detoration.

 

TheWayBack,

You don't have to explain me that updosing isn't goog idea - the worst time in my life I've experience after updose average dose of the drug when I didn't know about ways to measure powder of the pill. After going down with the dose I was coming back to life, but WD symptoms always hit with delay, after few months of quick WD and they accumulated. I have to balance between WD and increasing drug side effects. Now I see that probably inaccurate measuring of the drug slows down stabilisation and makes it difficult to achieve. Therefore I've had problems with recognition source of given symptom. After my last change I see more clearly source of each symptom.

   

LexAnger,

I've seen your response to Frogie before, but there aren't responses for the following questions:

1. Could I use pharmacy liquid more than time indicated on the leaflet? If I could, how long can I extend using liquid after opening?

2. I understand that you made liquid for not more than for 4 days. What did you do with remained diluted solution? Did you pour it into the sink?

3. Does eventual change from homemade liquid to pharmacy liquid have to treat as a chanfe of a form of the drug? I ask though I don't lean towards option of homemade liquid except I won't have choice.

 

 

3/21/2014 - Escitalopram Actavis 5mg (half of a pill) every day. 

6/1/2014 - Escitalopram 10mg  

2/1/2015 - Escitalopram  5mg  

3/1/2015  Escitalopram 5mg /every 2 days, every 3 days... up to every 6 days

6/30/2015 trying to withdraw totally - I kept waiting until the eleventh day but withdrawal was too strong so reinstated 

7/2/2015 Escitalopram 5mg / every 6 days 

8/27/2015 - Increasing to Escitalopram 2.5mg / per day - a lot of withdrawal symptoms , not sure what to do ....

2015:  12/30 - 2.2mg; 
2016:  2/2 - 1.9mg  4/9 - 1.7mg  5/10 - 1.55mg  6/11 - 1.4mg  7/3 - 1.25mg  7/24 - 1.1mg  8/16 - 1.0mg  9/7 - 0.9mg
2017:  1/24 - 0.8mg  2/14 - 0.7mg  3/4 - 0.64mg  3/19 - 0.58mg  3/30 - 0.53mg  4/16 - 0.48mg  4/29 - 0.43mg  5/26 - 0.37mg  7/1 - 0.32mg  8/6 - 0.26mg  27/08 - 0.21mg  
2018:  2/16 - 0.186mg;  (change to liquid) 3/19 - 0.145mg  4/3 - 0.13mg  4/22 - 0.12mg, lower doses afeter, 09/15 - try to witdraw completelly, but feel that i must reinstate - up to about 1.9mg to 2020/09 but the dose whole time was wrong because I store drug in refrigarator during most of the time - that was big mistake. Next mistake was to reinstate 1.9 mg instead of start from lower doses because doses from drug stored in refrigarator were disturbed. After 3 weeks i find out that i must go down and go down to 2021/06. 2021/06 Going down from 1mg to 0.4 in 2 weeks when I feel that that dose became to high. I started to feeling better then at about 0.4mg after, I started feeling that drug too high dose symptoms starting to let go in few days.
2021/06/05 - next mistake - I take 2 days levocetirizine for allergy, after 2 days crash, symptoms like on too high doses.
2021/06/07 - 2021/06/16 - 0.4mg - 0.1mg
2021/06/17 - 2021/06/20 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.1 - 0.6mg, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/06/21 - 2021/06/28 - 0.6mg - 0.12mg
2021/06/29 - 2021/06/30 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.13 - 0.3, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/07/01 -2021/07/14 - 0.3 - 0.12mg
2021/07/15 - 2021/07/19 - 0.12 - 0.01mg - still I feel too high dose effects, some withdrawal symptoms like dizziness, but they let go and more and more too high dose effects, therfore I go down with dose
 
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Update

After more than 3 weeks WD symptoms have softened and weakened. There are some days when I have milder tooth, jaw, head pain and sore eyes. Sometimes hostility, anger, irritation, some nervous tension, internal anxiety also occur. Last strong attack with akathisia, anxiety, rumitation, negative thinking occurred 11 days ago, since then there hasn't been so strong attack of similar symtpoms.

 

However, the most severe issues are deepening fatigue and sleepness which after cutting down the dose were weaker only during some days, but last several days it is almost so strong like before the change. Of course, these symptoms result from side effects as I wrote in previous posts. Maybe some of other symptoms result from side effects but I can't recognise it.

 

For example yesterday I became sleepy and tired about 6 pm. I lay with closed eyes to 7 pm, next I watched a film and about 9.20 pm I fall asleep with the light on - even I hadn't strength to switch off the light. I lay in my bed to 8 pm - more than 10 hours in bed and I hardly get out of it. Moreover during the day I have to lay down for about an hour or even more, sometimes two times a day. I haven't strenght and energy for more and more things.

 

What worries me the most it is that some weaker WD symptoms are still present, but after all side effects aren't significantly weaker that before change. Probably stabilization process is slower and difficult because of inacuraccy of measuring.

 

I want to switch to liquid to ensure stability , but I don't know what dose should I choose. Can I choose smaller dose or should I keep current dose?

I don't know how long will I bear so strong side effects and if side effects will increase after few days on liquid, will I can reduce the dose immediately?  

 

I would be very grateful if someone can also answer questions from my previous post.

3/21/2014 - Escitalopram Actavis 5mg (half of a pill) every day. 

6/1/2014 - Escitalopram 10mg  

2/1/2015 - Escitalopram  5mg  

3/1/2015  Escitalopram 5mg /every 2 days, every 3 days... up to every 6 days

6/30/2015 trying to withdraw totally - I kept waiting until the eleventh day but withdrawal was too strong so reinstated 

7/2/2015 Escitalopram 5mg / every 6 days 

8/27/2015 - Increasing to Escitalopram 2.5mg / per day - a lot of withdrawal symptoms , not sure what to do ....

2015:  12/30 - 2.2mg; 
2016:  2/2 - 1.9mg  4/9 - 1.7mg  5/10 - 1.55mg  6/11 - 1.4mg  7/3 - 1.25mg  7/24 - 1.1mg  8/16 - 1.0mg  9/7 - 0.9mg
2017:  1/24 - 0.8mg  2/14 - 0.7mg  3/4 - 0.64mg  3/19 - 0.58mg  3/30 - 0.53mg  4/16 - 0.48mg  4/29 - 0.43mg  5/26 - 0.37mg  7/1 - 0.32mg  8/6 - 0.26mg  27/08 - 0.21mg  
2018:  2/16 - 0.186mg;  (change to liquid) 3/19 - 0.145mg  4/3 - 0.13mg  4/22 - 0.12mg, lower doses afeter, 09/15 - try to witdraw completelly, but feel that i must reinstate - up to about 1.9mg to 2020/09 but the dose whole time was wrong because I store drug in refrigarator during most of the time - that was big mistake. Next mistake was to reinstate 1.9 mg instead of start from lower doses because doses from drug stored in refrigarator were disturbed. After 3 weeks i find out that i must go down and go down to 2021/06. 2021/06 Going down from 1mg to 0.4 in 2 weeks when I feel that that dose became to high. I started to feeling better then at about 0.4mg after, I started feeling that drug too high dose symptoms starting to let go in few days.
2021/06/05 - next mistake - I take 2 days levocetirizine for allergy, after 2 days crash, symptoms like on too high doses.
2021/06/07 - 2021/06/16 - 0.4mg - 0.1mg
2021/06/17 - 2021/06/20 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.1 - 0.6mg, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/06/21 - 2021/06/28 - 0.6mg - 0.12mg
2021/06/29 - 2021/06/30 - I feel that i could reinstate - 0.13 - 0.3, but after 2 days again too high dose
2021/07/01 -2021/07/14 - 0.3 - 0.12mg
2021/07/15 - 2021/07/19 - 0.12 - 0.01mg - still I feel too high dose effects, some withdrawal symptoms like dizziness, but they let go and more and more too high dose effects, therfore I go down with dose
 
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Hi davidcpp,

 

I'm glad your wd sxs are lessening over holding doses. I'm too familiar with the pattern of Dealing with the 2 opposite evils.

 

I can't help with your questions as I didn't make liquid from pills. I always used pharmacy liquid during my taper, only diluted it by adding water. 

Drug free Sep. 23 2017

2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks.

2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg

2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain

2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain;

2013 Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg by July. first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain

2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg,

2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on

2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks.

2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR

2016 Feb., started dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday 2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg,8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg, 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg

2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, 2/13--0.13mg, 2/20--0.06mg, 3/18--0.13mg, 6/1--0.12mg, 7/6--0.1mg, 7/14--0.08mg, 8/17--0.04mg, 8/20--0.03mg, 8/28--0.02mg, 9/6--0.0205mg, 9/8--0.02mg, 9/17--0.015mg, 9/20--0.01mg, 9/21--0.0048mg, 9/22--0.0001mg,

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