Mamgu: reducing citalopram

[Mamgu]

Hi Sonia, yes I'm surprised how bad the symptoms can be at these lower doses.  Just goes to show how much of the drug is utilised by the brain at the lowest doses.

 

I need to take things slower. To be honest I've had to take things slower than the 10%/month suggestion throughout my taper and even the Brass Monkey method is too much for me.  I've tried chipping away at smaller random amounts which was working for some time, but I really should have held before now.  I think this is one of the most frustrating aspects of the process, not knowing 'the right way', it's all trial and error..........and the errors can have a massive impact 😬 

 

Sounds as though you have a sensible approach with a small drop, I do hope your symptoms are settling down now.  Slowly, slowly, gently we go 🙂

[Sonia009]

@Mamgu Hi, I can see you've been reducing very slowly yourself for several years, it's so exhausting isn't it. I get symptoms after taking my dose at 10 am, headache and feeling weird mostly, like I'm drugged. I did a bit of baking this morning and visited my mother a 40 minute drive away (my husband drove) and still have those feelings five hours later. Now it's just chilling out for the rest of the day for me.

I use a syringe to measure my Citalopram dosage, I'm going by the increments on the syringe so don't know how to get them as accurate as your measurements. Sometimes I feel like just stopping all together. Seems like you're damned  if you do and damned if you don't. Ah well, upwards and onwards. Best wishes with your taper.🙏😊

 

[Fifree]

Hi Mamgu. Just catching up on all your progress. You're doing amazingly well. It certainly seems you have your tough times, but you are managing it really well and getting on with it. Big admiration from here. I love your attitude to the process and your writing is very entertaining.

 

All the best to you

[Momiki]

I'm rooting for you from a distance! Hopefully this whole ordeal will be over for you soon. You're doing really well!

[Mamgu]

WD symptoms have settled enough for me to take the next drop, though I have a really horrible chesty cough I picked up when I went to Wales.  I haven't had a cough this bad since......covid I guess; it's really knocked me sideways. Curiously though, the squeezies are fine, just the usual background buzz.

 

On 5/15/2024 at 9:00 AM, Momiki said:

I'm rooting for you from a distance! Hopefully this whole ordeal will be over for you soon. You're doing really well!

 

Thanks Momiki 🙂  Looks as though your symptoms are settling though sorry to read about the stomach bug.  I'm also heartened to see you're having some great life experiences, it's so important to maintain our wellbeing, well done 😊

 

 

On 5/14/2024 at 8:13 AM, Fifree said:

Hi Mamgu. Just catching up on all your progress. You're doing amazingly well. It certainly seems you have your tough times, but you are managing it really well and getting on with it. Big admiration from here. I love your attitude to the process and your writing is very entertaining.

 

All the best to you

 

Hey Fifree - thanks.  It's a trial isn't it?  Like Momiki, I see you're enjoying life, well done to you too 🙂

 

 

On 5/12/2024 at 3:06 PM, Sonia009 said:

Sometimes I feel like just stopping all together. Seems like you're damned  if you do and damned if you don't. Ah well, upwards and onwards. Best wishes with your taper

 

Hi Sonia, hope you're feeling better? I know exactly how you feel - feeling damned if you do and damned if you don't.  I often go through a thought spiral along these lines:

 

I'm exhausted with this and what it to end now.....ok, just stop taking Citalopram.....but I suspect I'll experience horrific cold turkey symptoms......yeah, I don't want that......shouldn't have started reducing the dose in the first place......shouldn't have gone on it in the first place actually.....but I don't regret that, I was in a dreadful place at that time.......I really do regret starting taking the pills.....OK. let's get off this, only another couple of years to go.....but I want it to end now as I'm exhausted.....and actually, I'm scared to stop taking it altogether in case I have such a bad WD experience I can't function....

 

I mean, that thought process in itself is exhausting 😂. So, when I recognise I'm doing that I halt it in its tracks. 

 

 

[Sonia009]

@MamguHi, sorry you are not well after your visit to Wales, hopefully your cough will pass soon. Congrats on yet another reduction, your doing really well. It's shocking how such a low dose can cause so many problems. I'm still where I was but each day after taking my dose I'm getting awful headaches and some dizziness. I don't know what to do, just hoping for things to get better I guess. Hope everything goes smoothly for you.🙏😊

[Mamgu]

Sorry to hear this Sonia, it's awful when we don't seem to make any progress.  I wish I could wave a magic wand and make us all better.  I don't suppose there's anything more you can do than sit it out 😞 xx

 

[Sonia009]

1 hour ago, Mamgu said:

Sorry to hear this Sonia, it's awful when we don't seem to make any progress.  I wish I could wave a magic wand and make us all better.  I don't suppose there's anything more you can do than sit it out 😞 xx

 

@Mamgu Yes, I've got a migraine now so it's difficult to know what's causing what. Sitting it out is the right thing to do for now. Hope you're cough is getting better.😊🙏

[Mamgu]

So my cough turned into full-force influenza and I've been out of action since I last posted, I haven't had the energy to sit up let alone go to work but I feel as though I'm on the mend now.  I took another dose drop before I realised how bad I was, if I'd have known I'd be this ill I'd have stayed put, hindsight is marvellous isn't it!!

 

Interestingly, I felt no WD when I was at my worse with the 'flu, I expect that was due to feeling so dreadful and the 'flu symptoms totally obliterating any WD.  I'm still rough, but at least managed to take the dog for a walk yesterday....well, I'm sure he'd object to the word 'walk', more of a staggering meander but he got to sniff about a bit and bark at some cats, bit of mental stimulation if not exercise for him😆. 

 

I can feel the usual WD symptoms poking their noses in now, tinnitus and anxiety being at the forefront, nothing I've not had before and nothing I'm stressing about but I'm curious that they were non-existent when the 'flu was rampaging through my body.  Not that I'm advocating anyone gets 'flu to mask WD of course 🤣  It's like I'm experiencing a symptom see-saw; WD v's influenza, at the moment influenza is winning but feisty and dependable WD is on the rise.

 

 

[Sonia009]

@Mamgu Oh dear, that went on for a while didn't it, glad to hear it's finally getting better. I know what you mean about withdrawal symptoms taking backstage whilst there's something else going on, happens to me too, I wonder why that is 🤔. I hope you continue to improve so you can enjoy more walks with your dog.😊

[Mamgu]

I'm having a little hold at the moment, mainly to let things settle enough for an event in early August, it's a music festival and the thought of standing up all day in a field in who-knows-what-weather is a daunting feeling; this is English summertime and we seem to be getting all the weathers every day 🤣.  Things are settling but I want to enjoy the day/night so am "Being Sensible".

 

Being Sensible is getting more and more difficult, I'm fed up to the back teeth of all this, honestly, it's been 5 years now and I feel I've paid my dues.  Can I Be Me again please?  Nope, more of this is the only certainty in the process.  It would help if I knew what dose will be my last before I stop altogether.  I realise everyone is different so there's no way to know, looking at other people's stories I'm guessing I need to reach 0.1 at least, maybe even lower.  Crazy when you think if it.

 

I'm finding I'm experiencing more and more tightness in my leg and abdomen muscles when walking and if I walk for long enough it can become painful.  Also, I love football and the Euros have been a total roller coaster for us England fans.  Reason for mentioning here is I've noticed I get caught up in the moment and the excitement really triggers the squeezies.  The last match I had to take myself away and moderate my breathing to settle things down, it's the final tonight, who knows how I'm going to handle that 🤣🤣

 

All that said, I'm pleased that to date I've never had to take a day off work due to the squeezies, it's been touch and go at times and I'm sure being a remote worker has helped with that.  Also, I'm happy that I've been able to do the odd activity that's good for my wellbeing: longer walks occasionally, going to gigs, pottering in the garden, driving to Wales to be with family and friends and the mountains, reading and taking in what I'm reading......and so much more.  I think it's important I keep recognising this, especially when I become despondent at how long this is all taking. 

[PattyCatty]

Hi @Mamgu

 

You're doing so well. You've halved your dose in half a year which is brilliant. 

 

I'm sure your steady approach will pay off in the long run.

 

Best wishes to you

[Mamgu]

Thank you lovely PattyCatty 🙂 I feel I've done well this year and you're right, the steady approach is working.  I hope that a little hold during this summer will help me reach my target of 0.2mg by the end of the year.  It's not set in stone but would be nice it that happened 🙂

 

Hope you're OK xxx

[PattyCatty]

Dear @Mamgu

 

Don't forget all the lovely things that going slow and steady also allows you to do that feel good and help wellbeing

 

My very best wishes

[Momiki]

Wow, Mamgu, you're getting so low! I know each day of feeling crappy is one too many, but it seems the end of your tapering days are coming into sight! I'm impressed with your ability to endure the withdrawal symptoms.

 

Your plan to go down to at least 0.1 mg sounds sensible. BrassMonkey's topic on the Endgame taper mentions that Mark Horowitz estimates the End dose at 2.5% of the originally prescribed dose, which would be 0.5 mg of you started at 20 mg. But citalopram seems to be particularly nasty. Shifting focus from "At this rate I will finish in x amount of years" to "Last year I've been able to cut my dose in half with respect to the year before" will probably be helpful. It's all about tricking yourself! But yeah, I think you've been doing really well, both in tapering progress and with how you are handling things. One day you'll be able to return to this forum and write one of those nice success stories.

 

Have fun at the festival in August! I hope you'll have a great time.

[Mamgu]

14 hours ago, Momiki said:

"Last year I've been able to cut my dose in half with respect to the year before" will probably be helpful. It's all about tricking yourself!

 

Momiki, you are so right!  It's all too easy to look at the negative but I love this positive twist.  I'm definitely going to adopt this approach, thank you 🙂

 

I also read the 2.5% of original dose suggestion; then re-read it and re-read it again in case I misunderstood!  Not a hope in my case 😂. I think you're right about Citalopram being nasty, it's a proper stubborn old beast for sure.  I'm trying not to fix a number in my mind but it's difficult. Instead I'll just see how I react at each dose drop, I'm hoping that at some point there is minimal if any reaction, but as things stand, the WD symptoms are as strong as they've ever been.  So I'll carry on, cutting my dose in half each year 🙂

 

Hope you're OK Momiki, and that you're settling down into a stable hold.  xx

 

 

[Sonia009]

On 7/16/2024 at 8:26 AM, Mamgu said:

 

Momiki, you are so right!  It's all too easy to look at the negative but I love this positive twist.  I'm definitely going to adopt this approach, thank you 🙂

 

I also read the 2.5% of original dose suggestion; then re-read it and re-read it again in case I misunderstood!  Not a hope in my case 😂. I think you're right about Citalopram being nasty, it's a proper stubborn old beast for sure.  I'm trying not to fix a number in my mind but it's difficult. Instead I'll just see how I react at each dose drop, I'm hoping that at some point there is minimal if any reaction, but as things stand, the WD symptoms are as strong as they've ever been.  So I'll carry on, cutting my dose in half each year 🙂

 

Hope you're OK Momiki, and that you're settling down into a stable hold.  xx

 

 

On 7/16/2024 at 8:26 AM, Mamgu said:

 

Momiki, you are so right!  It's all too easy to look at the negative but I love this positive twist.  I'm definitely going to adopt this approach, thank you 🙂

 

I also read the 2.5% of original dose suggestion; then re-read it and re-read it again in case I misunderstood!  Not a hope in my case 😂. I think you're right about Citalopram being nasty, it's a proper stubborn old beast for sure.  I'm trying not to fix a number in my mind but it's difficult. Instead I'll just see how I react at each dose drop, I'm hoping that at some point there is minimal if any reaction, but as things stand, the WD symptoms are as strong as they've ever been.  So I'll carry on, cutting my dose in half each year 🙂

 

Hope you're OK Momiki, and that you're settling down into a stable hold.  xx

 

 

@Mamgu Hi, thought I'd pop over to your thread too. hope that's ok. Taking a break from cleaning, exhausted. Gosh you're really making progress with your withdrawal. You must have the liquid version to be able to be so precise? I dilute my tablet and use a syringe to get my dose but can't measure it like you do. I go by the increments on the syringe, currently,0.4 mg. I feel every drop in dose, symptoms for weeks after each one. Just need to accept that it's a slow process I suppose. So glad that you're doing so well.😊

[Kat66]

Wishing you continued good luck healing too Mamgu - I get the impression citalopram is one of the tougher ones to come off of. I've just bought myself a 1ml syringe with lots of increments - getting into the last few ml is serious stuff now. 

[Mamgu]

6 hours ago, Sonia009 said:

You must have the liquid version to be able to be so precise? I dilute my tablet and use a syringe to get my dose but can't measure it like you do. I go by the increments on the syringe, currently,0.4 mg.

 

I don't have the liquid, it's a bit of a faff but I dissolve a 10mg tablet in 50ml of filtered water.  I use a laboratory style cylinder to measure the water so I'm consistent.  I pour the water into an amber glass container, drop the tablet into it, wait for it to dissolve, swirl it about, then use a pipette to draw out my dose (currently 1.7ml = 0.34mg of drug).  I keep the solution for a week in the fridge. After that I'll throw away what's left and start again.

 

I initially bought two pipette sizes, 1ml and 10ml, I don't need the 10ml one now (😊).  The increments on the smaller one are 0.02ml, this helps me get accurate lower doses. 

 

All the equipment was bought on Amazon, here's some examples:

• Pipettes, I don't recall having to buy a kit of various sizes but this is what I've found that's currently available: 6Pcs Glass Pipettes Dropper, 1ml 2ml 3ml 5ml 10ml Graduated Liquid Dropper, with Rubber Bulb and Cleaning Brush, Transfer Pipettes for Essential Oil : Amazon.co.uk: Business, Industry & Science
• Cylinder: ISOLAB - Measuring Cylinder 50ml - Class A - Tall Form - Borosilicate 3.3 Glass - Conformity Batch Certified - Blue Scale - Pack of 2 : Amazon.co.uk: Business, Industry & Science
• Amber jar: 100ml Amber Glass Apothecary Jar with Ground Glass Stopper | Vintage Refillable Container for Herbs, Spices, Oils, and Decorative Storage : Amazon.co.uk: Home & Kitchen

As I say, it's a bit of a faff but only once a week to set things up, after than it's easy enough.  I have a spreadsheet to help with the calculations because I don't trust my maths 😂

[Mamgu]

30 minutes ago, Kat66 said:

Wishing you continued good luck healing too Mamgu - I get the impression citalopram is one of the tougher ones to come off of. I've just bought myself a 1ml syringe with lots of increments - getting into the last few ml is serious stuff now. 

 

Thanks Kat66 🙂  You're right, it's a tough process for sure.  I think it pays to give it some respect so I don't mind being so pedantic with the method I just explained to Sonia.  I'd like to think people can eventually get off Citalopram, I find the success stories a bit difficult to navigate, I never seem to find people who've come off Citalopram without experiencing horrific effects; and even then, do they stay off it forever?  Not helpful thought processes so I'll sidestep that for now and concentrate on celebrating what I've achieved so far.  I have to believe this is all for something.

x

[Kat66]

Wow, my WD addled brain is struggling to get my head around your calculations! I dissolve a 10mg tablet in 10ml water and syringe what I need out. That's about as complicated as I can cope with LOL. You're right, citalopram has a nasty sting in the tail especially at these really low doses. Shame our wonderful doctors don't feel the need to tell us that when they're prescribing them eh? I'm determined to get off this stuff. You've been on it a similar time to me I think. We can do this!

[Sonia009]

1 hour ago, Mamgu said:

 

I don't have the liquid, it's a bit of a faff but I dissolve a 10mg tablet in 50ml of filtered water.  I use a laboratory style cylinder to measure the water so I'm consistent.  I pour the water into an amber glass container, drop the tablet into it, wait for it to dissolve, swirl it about, then use a pipette to draw out my dose (currently 1.7ml = 0.34mg of drug).  I keep the solution for a week in the fridge. After that I'll throw away what's left and start again.

 

I initially bought two pipette sizes, 1ml and 10ml, I don't need the 10ml one now (😊).  The increments on the smaller one are 0.02ml, this helps me get accurate lower doses. 

 

All the equipment was bought on Amazon, here's some examples:

• Pipettes, I don't recall having to buy a kit of various sizes but this is what I've found that's currently available: 6Pcs Glass Pipettes Dropper, 1ml 2ml 3ml 5ml 10ml Graduated Liquid Dropper, with Rubber Bulb and Cleaning Brush, Transfer Pipettes for Essential Oil : Amazon.co.uk: Business, Industry & Science
• Cylinder: ISOLAB - Measuring Cylinder 50ml - Class A - Tall Form - Borosilicate 3.3 Glass - Conformity Batch Certified - Blue Scale - Pack of 2 : Amazon.co.uk: Business, Industry & Science
• Amber jar: 100ml Amber Glass Apothecary Jar with Ground Glass Stopper | Vintage Refillable Container for Herbs, Spices, Oils, and Decorative Storage : Amazon.co.uk: Home & Kitchen

As I say, it's a bit of a faff but only once a week to set things up, after than it's easy enough.  I have a spreadsheet to help with the calculations because I don't trust my maths 😂

@Mamgu Thank you for typing all of that information, I didn't mean for you to go to all that trouble. 💐I will take a look at the pipettes you use so I can go slower with my next drop. I mix my dose every day, I didn't think of preparing a solution for the week, I'll look into doing that too.  Many thanks.😊

[Mamgu]

You're welcome Sonia 🙂

I've read that some people keep the solution for 3 days or so, then start again.  I've just got into the habit of doing it weekly.  I don't suppose there's been any clinical trials of the efficacy of home made Citalopram solutions and their 'use by' dates 😂

 

I guess you could dissolve a 10mg tablet in 20ml water to give you a half-dose per ml.....if that makes sense.  You might want to consider lowering the dose drop %age, particularly as you're feeling so poorly.  It's all trial and error isn't it? Problem being, the 'errors' can have devastating effects.

 

 

1 hour ago, Kat66 said:

Wow, my WD addled brain is struggling to get my head around your calculations! I dissolve a 10mg tablet in 10ml water and syringe what I need out.

 

I have a spreadsheet 😎.  I've worked out 1ml solution = 0.2mg Citalopram with my current dilution ratio (10mg / 50ml).  I'm sure more maths-savvy folks will now tell me I've got that horribly wrong 😂

x

[Sonia009]

3 hours ago, Mamgu said:

You're welcome Sonia 🙂

I've read that some people keep the solution for 3 days or so, then start again.  I've just got into the habit of doing it weekly.  I don't suppose there's been any clinical trials of the efficacy of home made Citalopram solutions and their 'use by' dates 😂

 

I guess you could dissolve a 10mg tablet in 20ml water to give you a half-dose per ml.....if that makes sense.  You might want to consider lowering the dose drop %age, particularly as you're feeling so poorly.  It's all trial and error isn't it? Problem being, the 'errors' can have devastating effects.

 

 

 

I have a spreadsheet 😎.  I've worked out 1ml solution = 0.2mg Citalopram with my current dilution ratio (10mg / 50ml).  I'm sure more maths-savvy folks will now tell me I've got that horribly wrong 😂

x

@Mamgu Thank you Mamgu, I agree, you have to be spot on with the dose because like you say any deviation can have devastating effects. Also, I've been late taking my dose a couple of times through forgetfulness and that plays havoc with me too. I think I do need to go slower next time, I'll order some pipettes. x 😊 

[Kat66]

@Mamgu @Sonia009 do you guys keep your liquid solutions in the fridge - I read somewhere it keeps longer, I could be wrong? Mine lasts a week before I can't syringe any more out of it.

[Sonia009]

51 minutes ago, Kat66 said:

@Mamgu @Sonia009 do you guys keep your liquid solutions in the fridge - I read somewhere it keeps longer, I could be wrong? Mine lasts a week before I can't syringe any more out 

@Kat66 @Mamgu Hi, I mix mine fresh every morning so I don't put it in the fridge. I think you can though, I might try it. Makes more sense especially if you get brand changes as often as I do. I took mine late yesterday and paying for it today.😏

[Mamgu]

Yep, in an amber glass jar in the fridge 👍

 

Lots of good advice here: 

 

 

xx

[Mamgu]

53 minutes ago, Sonia009 said:

I took mine late yesterday and paying for it today.😏

 

could you set a timer on your phone or watch?  Maybe an alarm to go off at a convenient time every evening?  I'd have to do that if I took it in the evenings because my brain starts shutting down from about 7pm.....this was before Citalopram so no hope these days 😂

[Sonia009]

15 minutes ago, Mamgu said:

 

could you set a timer on your phone or watch?  Maybe an alarm to go off at a convenient time every evening?  I'd have to do that if I took it in the evenings because my brain starts shutting down from about 7pm.....this was before Citalopram so no hope these days 😂

@Mamgu I usually take it on time at 10am, everything is on my dressing table facing me lol. I was distracted and then forgot it, twice this has happened this week, it's a no wonder I feel like this. I'll try setting the timer on my phone, thanks.😊

[Kat66]

23 hours ago, Sonia009 said:

 brand changes as often as I do. I took mine late yesterday and paying for it today.😏

I wonder how you ensure you get the same brand of drug - I might go directly to the pharmacist to ask them. I didn't realise changing brands has such an effect.

 

Yes, it's crazy how little it takes to destablise you. Take it easy.

[Sonia009]

3 hours ago, Kat66 said:

I wonder how you ensure you get the same brand of drug - I might go directly to the pharmacist to ask them. I didn't realise changing brands has such an effect.

 

Yes, it's crazy how little it takes to destablise you. Take it easy.

@Kat66 I've read it so many times here where people are advised to stay with the same brand. You can ask your pharmacist like I did and it did work for a while but they now tell me now that they get what they are given. if you don't have any success with your pharmacy you can always take your prescription to a different pharmacy if they have your preferred brand. Brand changes definitely makes a difference to me.😊

[Mamgu]

On 7/18/2024 at 7:45 PM, Sonia009 said:

I usually take it on time at 10am, everything is on my dressing table facing me lol. I was distracted and then forgot it, twice this has happened this week, it's a no wonder I feel like this. I'll try setting the timer on my phone, thanks.😊

 

Oops, I got you mixed up with Kat66 I think!  I thought you were an evening doser, my bad 🤪

[Mamgu]

I rarely have the same brand with consecutive prescriptions.  I'm not sure if it makes a difference with me but I could monitor it.  Who'd have thought a different brand would have an effect though, surely they have the same ingredients?  Perhaps the fillers change, I dunno.  If that's the case then why does the filler have an impact......oh lawks, too many questions and not enough answers 😂

[Kat66]

I know! Its such a faff the thought of having to check whether it's the same bl**dy brand - yet another annoying factor in all this lol! Like you say, what on earth could be different between generic brands?

[Sonia009]

@MamguHi, thinking about you Mamgu. Are you still getting those weird "elevator" sensations? I get those awful feelings too, some days are worse than others. It can happen any time for me, in the shower, hanging clothes on the line, taking the bins out, talking to people etc. I think they make me panic a bit making it worse. I hope you are improving.🙏😊

[Mamgu]

Hi Sonia, yeah I'm good thanks for checking-in 🙂

 

I've enjoyed a decent hold, stabilised nicely and even managed to have a ball at the music festival on Friday 🤘.  So mission accomplished and now back to reducing the dose and all the joy that comes with it 🙄.  The 'elevator' sensations had diminished but curiously I'm on day two of 0.32mg and was OK until this morning when I took the dog for a walk and had a 'nearly-faint': intense head pressure and vision went blurry, this lasted a good couple of minutes and I had to stop walking.  It's not uncommon for me to have the odd moment of head pressure and feeling as though I'm drifting away but not so intensely and my vision was never affected before.  The weather is hot and muggy so that might have had a part to play?  

 

I can see you're still having strong withdrawal symptoms, the fatigue is a killer and all you can do is rest up, so frustrating.  I totally understand the panic feeling that comes with the elevator thing.  Every time I have to concentrate on my breathing and practice some meditation thought processes.  That really helps quell the panic-surge and stop the catastrophising thoughts.  Drinking water with a little magnesium citrate helps too. 

 

Hang on in there, it'll pass xx