Nicolas45140: switching Paxil to Lexapro

[Faure]

On 11/22/2022 at 6:44 PM, Nicolas45140 said:

Hello @RachelSusan sorry it wasn’t clear. I meant going back to an official dose so 10mg of lexapro or 20mg of Paxil but I guess it is a silly idea ! 

Sorry you are experiencing all these dreadful side effects. How fortunate that you are supported by Mark Horowitz. He must have so much helpful advice. I would caution against any large dose increase, or back to the so called “minimum therapeutic dose”. I did this a few years ago when I got extremely destabilised through skipping days. I thought it would be a magic bullet: it wasn’t. I was extremely fatigued for about 4 months and could only sit on the sofa. I was very distressed. When I returned to work it was for only a few hours a week. I never got much energy back, couldn’t work more than about 10 hours a week and was emotionally unstable for a year. After a year I stabilised somewhat so that I could be confident I knew how I’d feel when I woke up. After about another 6 months I started my taper. (These time frames may be out my a year, I really have lost track of how long ago everything was). 18 months into that I am finally starting to feel like myself and able to do a lot more (still not as much as before this drug). 
 

When we are experiencing waves we think of all sorts of things that might magically make everything go away. I really don’t think there is anything, otherwise it would be shared here constantly.  Have you had windows as well?  As RachelSusan says, tag a mod if you want to discuss an updose of some sort. Usually very small ones are recommended, if at all. 

[Nicolas45140]

41 minutes ago, Faure said:

Sorry you are experiencing all these dreadful side effects. How fortunate that you are supported by Mark Horowitz. He must have so much helpful advice. I would caution against any large dose increase, or back to the so called “minimum therapeutic dose”. I did this a few years ago when I got extremely destabilised through skipping days. I thought it would be a magic bullet: it wasn’t. I was extremely fatigued for about 4 months and could only sit on the sofa. I was very distressed. When I returned to work it was for only a few hours a week. I never got much energy back, couldn’t work more than about 10 hours a week and was emotionally unstable for a year. After a year I stabilised somewhat so that I could be confident I knew how I’d feel when I woke up. After about another 6 months I started my taper. (These time frames may be out my a year, I really have lost track of how long ago everything was). 18 months into that I am finally starting to feel like myself and able to do a lot more (still not as much as before this drug). 
 

When we are experiencing waves we think of all sorts of things that might magically make everything go away. I really don’t think there is anything, otherwise it would be shared here constantly.  Have you had windows as well?  As RachelSusan says, tag a mod if you want to discuss an updose of some sort. Usually very small ones are recommended, if at all. 

Hello faure ! Yes i feel lucky to have mark on my side. It helps a lot. 
going backwards isn’t a good idea but as you said being in a wave with all symptoms I mentionned would make you do stupid things. I won’t go back to the minimum therapeutic dose. I feel lucky I can keep my job, can go mountain biking, walk the dog, etc….

i do have windows….but still with some symptoms that would be called WDnormal. 
as many of you and mark said to me…. Pause for 6 months to stabilize. I try just to understand what make me feel unwell…. Paxil that I took for years and switched for lexapro too quickly or lexapro that I try to reduce… or maybe a bit of two. 
 

what I don’t understand… I have been switching From citalopram zoloft, Paxil, lexapro, venlafaxine for the past 23 years and I never been unwell from switching brands or just the first months. 

[Faure]

7 hours ago, Nicolas45140 said:

what I don’t understand… I have been switching From citalopram zoloft, Paxil, lexapro, venlafaxine for the past 23 years and I never been unwell from switching brands or just the first months. 

Sounds like all the switches have caught up with you and your system has become severely sensitised.  Holding where you are is probably for the best to give it stability. It’s busy sorting out all the problems which is why you feel so bad. 
 

Given you are living what sounds like a fairly normal life I’d be thankful for that and give your body as much time as it needs to recover☺️

[Nicolas45140]

Hello everyone, 

little update. 
I have been holding now at 3mg lexo and will still wait some more time. 
for the past weeks… I had two new symptoms but I can handle it. Would be nice to hear that others had that too. 
so after some quick search I have to dermatographia when I scratch my skin and also got very itchy skin but not all the time on the legs and on the head. sometimes my neck gets really hot so I scratch myself the I mark a lot…(dermatographia) 

also, big pain in the gut or stomach or somewhere inside…going up to back of my throat. Doesn’t change if I eat or not… 

Anyone same ? 
well keep focusing on my journey. Been watching medicating normal yesterday. I show the movie to my wife to make her understand what we live… as I feel like the same of the marine soldier and his wife. 
thanks to all 

Nicolas 🇫🇷

[Nicolas45140]

On 12/4/2022 at 10:43 AM, Nicolas45140 said:

Hello everyone, 

little update. 
I have been holding now at 3mg lexo and will still wait some more time. 
for the past weeks… I had two new symptoms but I can handle it. Would be nice to hear that others had that too. 
so after some quick search I have to dermatographia when I scratch my skin and also got very itchy skin but not all the time on the legs and on the head. sometimes my neck gets really hot so I scratch myself the I mark a lot…(dermatographia) 

also, big pain in the gut or stomach or somewhere inside…going up to back of my throat. Doesn’t change if I eat or not… 

Anyone same ? 
well keep focusing on my journey. Been watching medicating normal yesterday. I show the movie to my wife to make her understand what we live… as I feel like the same of the marine soldier and his wife. 
thanks to all 

Nicolas 🇫🇷

@ChessieCat hello. How are you ? Any idea? Thank you !

 

[Nicolas45140]

@Altostratahello to you ! 
I mention you to make a little update with you as I directed switched Paxil for lexapro like you did on the request on my psy. It’s been a bit more than a year and I arrived to 3mg of lexapro and stopped tapering (16weeks) to give a rest to my body but except wave and windows, no improvement of my symptoms. Still having anxiety, gut/stomach problems, dread with no reason, loss of joy, no sexdrive at all, etc…. 
‘do you think i should keep waiting before starting again my reduction(I will do a 3% next), finding another issue ? I feel a bit lost with all that symptoms that come and goes. 
Now I have anxiety at night if i wake up that I never had before… 

well, I guess i have a protracted withdrawal syndrome of the Paxil I directly switched and the lexapro that i try to reduce and stop. 

for now, even if my boss tells me that I’m not 100%, I told him the Truth about tapering. But hope that I won’t loose it because I’m too foggy if I can say that… there but not there…

I thank you for all you doing for us !! 
Nicolas 

[peaceandlove]

5 hours ago, Nicolas45140 said:

@Altostratahello to you ! 
I mention you to make a little update with you as I directed switched Paxil for lexapro like you did on the request on my psy. It’s been a bit more than a year and I arrived to 3mg of lexapro and stopped tapering (16weeks) to give a rest to my body but except wave and windows, no improvement of my symptoms. Still having anxiety, gut/stomach problems, dread with no reason, loss of joy, no sexdrive at all, etc…. 
‘do you think i should keep waiting before starting again my reduction(I will do a 3% next), finding another issue ? I feel a bit lost with all that symptoms that come and goes. 
Now I have anxiety at night if i wake up that I never had before… 

well, I guess i have a protracted withdrawal syndrome of the Paxil I directly switched and the lexapro that i try to reduce and stop. 

for now, even if my boss tells me that I’m not 100%, I told him the Truth about tapering. But hope that I won’t loose it because I’m too foggy if I can say that… there but not there…

I thank you for all you doing for us !! 
Nicolas 

what are your stomach/gut problems? @Nicolas45140

[Altostrata]

Hello, @Nicolas45140 What time o'clock do you take Lexapro? Are you taking any other drugs? Are there any times of day that you feel better or worse? 

 

How has your symptom pattern changed in the last 3 months?

 

The irritation on the back of your head and neck looks like it might be an allergic reaction to something, perhaps soap, shampoo, or laundry detergent.

[Nicolas45140]

On 12/29/2022 at 9:00 PM, peaceandlove said:

what are your stomach/gut problems? @Nicolas45140

@peaceandlovediarrhea, stomach ache, like I ate something bad, or something like Gastroenteritis 

[Nicolas45140]

4 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Hello, @Nicolas45140 What time o'clock do you take Lexapro? Are you taking any other drugs? Are there any times of day that you feel better or worse? 

 

How has your symptom pattern changed in the last 3 months?

 

The irritation on the back of your head and neck looks like it might be an allergic reaction to something, perhaps soap, shampoo, or laundry detergent.

Hello, I take lexapro around 7am-8am and I don’t take anything else except fish oil and magnesium. 
there is no better or worse time during the day. 
my symptoms patterns are similar and probably more acceptable except more difficulties to find joy when I’m doing activities. 
for my dermatographia I guess this is the release of histamin while reducing drug. 

[Altostrata]

15 hours ago, Nicolas45140 said:

for my dermatographia I guess this is the release of histamin while reducing drug. 

 

As suggested before, this may an allergic reaction to something that touches your skin. Not everything is due to withdrawal.

 

Do you get diarrhea at any particular time of day?

 

Fish oil can upset the stomach. You might stop fish oil for a while and see if your gastrointestinal symptoms improve.

[Nicolas45140]

11 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

As suggested before, this may an allergic reaction to something that touches your skin. Not everything is due to withdrawal.

 

Do you get diarrhea at any particular time of day?

 

Fish oil can upset the stomach. You might stop fish oil for a while and see if your gastrointestinal symptoms improve.

Hello to you and first of all, happy new year ! 
diarhea is usually morning time but I guess it could also comes of the nature of food i eat. 
i tried to stop fish oil for a week now….

 

my question would be now should I continue tapering at 3 or 5%…even if i keep having some inconfort with differents symptoms. 
 

nicolaz 

[Altostrata]

13 hours ago, Nicolas45140 said:

diarhea is usually morning time but I guess it could also comes of the nature of food i eat. 

 

If you think it's from your diet, perhaps you could adjust your diet? Do you drink alcohol?

 

Are you still taking Lexapro earlier in the morning, with diarrhea occurring later?

 

Please review your topic from the beginning. It appears you've always gotten headache or diarrhea after taking Lexapro in the morning, is that accurate?

 

Have your symptoms gotten better or worse during your taper so far?

[Nicolas45140]

16 hours ago, Altostrata said:

If you think it's from your diet, perhaps you could adjust your diet? Do you drink alcohol?

Yes, I will adjust my diet. Diarrhea and stomach ache happened few days after a reduction. No I don't drink. I stopped since I started tapering. 

16 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Are you still taking Lexapro earlier in the morning, with diarrhea occurring later?

Yes, I Keep taking lexapro in the morning with my breakfast. Diarrhea isn't my worries....(as you said, more like my daily food is the reason)

16 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Have your symptoms gotten better or worse during your taper so far?

My symptoms didn't get worse for sure. Better, Im not sure. I Sleep 7 to 8 hours which is good. I walk my dog and do bicycle everyday. the main issues is Anxiety, headache, feeling exhausted/tired and feeling like my day routine is in slow motion (strange), and my neck is very tense. Stressed. 

I don't know if I am still suffering from paxil i switched a year ago for lexapro... or lexapro itself...or both. (I switched paxil 20mg for Lexapro 7,5 (just 1month) then lexapro 5mg. 

 

[Altostrata]

Did you wait 2 months before your reduction on October 13? Did those symptoms change during those 2 months?

 

Did they change after the reduction on October 13? How did they change?

[Nicolas45140]

@Hopefulhey. Read some topics of you don’t know if you still around…if so it will be nice to exchange. Thanks 

[Nicolas45140]

On 1/2/2023 at 11:00 PM, Altostrata said:

 

Did you wait 2 months before your reduction on October 13? Did those symptoms change during those 2 months?

 

Not really….kind of same level of anxiety. A bit of insomnia, tension neck and shoulder….

On 1/2/2023 at 11:00 PM, Altostrata said:

 

Did they change after the reduction on October 13? How did they change?

No same symptoms. 
A new one appeared last week… terrible headache… difficult to describe like many of people Having kind of same… it’s on the top of the head…there all day…not painful but annoying and ok when we keep ourself busy. 
also being a bit slow…not really enjoying stuff(anedhonia ???) 

[Altostrata]

On 1/1/2023 at 12:41 PM, Altostrata said:

Please review your topic from the beginning. It appears you've always gotten headache or diarrhea after taking Lexapro in the morning, is that accurate?

 

[Nicolas45140]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

 

Hi alto. Let Forget about Diarhea It comes and goes. For headache I had it at the beginning when I switched from Paxil to lexapro then it stopped. Now it’s back again. 

[Altostrata]

Headache is not a new adverse effect of Lexapro, correct?

[Nicolas45140]

5 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Headache is not a new adverse effect of Lexapro, correct?

I don’t think it is. I have lexapro for more than a year and never had this kind of headache before…. 

[Nicolas45140]

@Altostrata

Hello Alto, I think we got confuse to each other with all the different messages been on this Topic.

I will explain my story from scratch if you don't mind and see if you have a plan to going out of the Tunnel.

In 99, i started with ssri. citalopram, then Paxil, then venlafaxine, then paxil again, then venlafaxine.....until 2021 under Paxil 20mg.

I noticed that even with an ssri, the product wouldn't do his job cause i wasn't well (anxiety, bad sleep, etc...) My french psy told me that we have to change SSRI to see if I could feel better. That's what we did and I direct switched for 10mg Escitalopram. After 7 or 8 days, I was sooo tired, so lethargic, my psy told me to go down to 7,5mg escitalopram and then 5mg which i stayed for few months. I had lots of anxiety, tension in my neck, some headache, gut problems, lots of symptoms the first months.... I was thinking that its the beginning of escitalopram but it could be also the withdrawal symptoms of the paxil i switched.

Since then, I started to engage a 10% taper from 5mg to 2,9mg where I am now but still not well. My overall score for my day is 5 on the scale of 10. some days could go up to 7.

When I was at 5mg i could rate my day 3 to 10 which was pretty good.

Now, the 14th of January, with my headache or head pressure (can't make difference) and my anxiety, its my two main worries because i don't feel good.

Too late to reinstate, stopping to wean off for some time doesn't make change on my symptoms.

I feel a bit lost of what I should do. keep fighting cause it is mainly withdrawal symptoms ? not loosing more time and updose my escitalopram back to 5mg ? going back on paxil ?

I do apologie for my english as I am French and even if I lived on ireland and london for some time, its been a while ago.

Thank you alto to take some time !! Thank you.

Nicolas

 

[Altostrata]

What drug changes have you made in the last 2 months, what is your current symptom pattern, and when did the new symptoms start?

[Nicolas45140]

3 hours ago, Altostrata said:

What drug changes have you made in the last 2 months, what is your current symptom pattern, and when did the new symptoms start?

Only reduce 3mg to 2,9mg. 
Actual symptoms are anxiety/dread, light headed, brain fog, anger, vivid dreams, headache, head pressure, jaw pain, itchy skin, loss of energy, loss of joy 

new symptoms started 2 or 3 weeks ago before I made last reduction

[Altostrata]

If they started 2 or 3 weeks ago, they're from something else other than your last reduction. What happen a few weeks ago that might have caused this?

 

Why did you make another reduction if you felt poorly?

[Nicolas45140]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

If they started 2 or 3 weeks ago, they're from something else other than your last reduction. What happen a few weeks ago that might have caused this?

 

Why did you make another reduction if you felt poorly?

Nothing changed. My last reduction was in October…so agreed that doesn’t come from there. Could it be a symptoms appearing in waves… 

i do have stress at work, stress at home so of  course that won’t help neither. 

i did make a reduction trying to see if it’s escitalopram or Paxil make me feel bad. 
0,1mg didn’t change a thing on symptoms… so it could be from Paxil I switched. 

couldnt we have symptoms that appears months after a reduction or something like a protracted withdrawal symptoms ? 

 

[Altostrata]

As explained before, substituting Lexapro for Paxil is not always effective, and Paxil withdrawal syndrome is particularly stubborn and difficult.

[Happy2Heal]

On 9/24/2022 at 12:35 PM, Faure said:

Be careful not to exercise too hard as that can stress your nervous system and cause you to become unstable. 

very good advice!!

 

a lot of us find that we are not able to do our normal routine of exercise like before we were going thru withdrawal

 

you might want to experiment with doing less, if you haven't already 

 

treat yourself and your body very kindly, @Nicolas45140ok?

withdrawal is difficult for our body and our mind

 

you will be ok as long as you go slow and listen to your body.

 

 

[Happy2Heal]

@Nicolas45140

 

sometimes how we feel has nothing to do with withdrawal so it's a good idea not to jump to thinking that changing your dose will fix things for you.

 

you might want to investigate other reasons for your symptoms.

 

neck pain, headaches, tension, they all go together

 

if you've been angry you may be clenching your jaw and grinding your teeth

 

Alto made the excellent suggestion that I check into physical therapy when I was having jaw pain and headaches and such, when my idea was to take a muscle relaxer.

 

the physical therapy worked almost instantly!! and there were not bad side effects

 

 

even though I have been off all psych drugs for over 5 Years now, taking the muscle relaxer caused a wave of WD type symptoms for me!

that is gone now and now I know to try to find other solutions first and not jump to thinking only a pill will help

 

of course sometimes we have no choice to take a pill like if you have a bad infection 

 

but for most of what you are describing there are non drug ways to try to handle the symptoms

 

I sent you a PM with some ideas and I will try to find more later after I get some rest

 

 

hang in there, you're doing ok

 

take one day at a time

 

is it rainy where you are? any low pressure systems in the area? that can cause headaches and head pressure

 

try putting your tongue against your front teeth gently and then slowly open and close your mouth. NOt a lot , just gentle and slow

 

do this as many times as you feel up to, you will be amazed at how it can relieve the pressure in your jaw

 

also try bending over with your head hanging down, let it kind of "go loose" and just let it relax like that. this helps a lot for neck pain

 

if you work on a computer a lot, neck pain is common and if you are anxious that makes your tense up, causing more pain

 

see if there are any yoga classes you can attend or check out You Tube videos on yoga

 

there are simple things you can do that will help you a LOT!

 

at the time they may seem silly but they really do work

 

the more you do them, the better you will feel

 

give it a try ok?

 

 

[Happy2Heal]

You may be able to figure this out even though it's in English

 

 

[Happy2Heal]

 

[Nicolas45140]

29 minutes ago, Happy2Heal said:

 

Nice attention for the French man. Thanks 🙏 

appreciate 

[Happy2Heal]

Hi @Nicolas45140

 

I got your message. I am going to answer it here.

I am very uncomfortable with you changing your dose. It seems you did not understand that the main message I tried to convey to you was that you should try to stay at the same dose. You speak a different language so this is understandable.

I will post here because perhaps someone else will be able to say this more plainly than I am.

 

 

Also I suggested that you get the advice of the mods who have a lot more experience with this than I do. 

 

You should update your signature with the changes you told me that you just made- the drop down to 2.9 and the new up dose to 3.0 

and the addition of the single dose of prazepam. That is needed for the mods to give you the best help they can.

 

 

I tried to give you non drug coping skills that I think may help you.

Have you tried any of them?

there are a LOT of things that you can do to address your anxiety and panic symptoms.

Have you considered reducing how much exercise you do during the day? making sure you do it in the morning and not late  at night, as that can disrupt your sleep (exercising late in the day is not recommended for any one as far as I know) 

if you drink coffee have you tried to withdraw off that slowly to see if it helps?

have you tried any of the neck and other exercises that I sent you links about?

have you tried a hot bath? distraction? maybe listening to soothing music or relaxation tapes when you can't sleep?

 

You need to be creative and think about tackling your problems in new ways. You can do it!! 

 

 

I am not able to nor willing to give dosing advice. 

 

please do not message me unless you are interesting in suggestions for things you can to do deal with your symptoms that do not involved drugs or doses, ok?

 

I wish you all the best on your journey! 

 

 

[Nicolas45140]

3 hours ago, Happy2Heal said:

got your message. I am going to answer it here.

I am very uncomfortable with you changing your dose. It seems you did not understand that the main message I tried to convey to you was that you should try to stay at the same dose.

Hello happy ! I completely heard your advice not to updose my AD. The thing is that I have so much anxiety everynight with insomnia, intrusive thoughts that I will not heal, etc…etc… that i would love to go back to the level where i could manage my emotions.
I wouldn’t go back to a high dose…but maybe a little more to return to a confort zone to be able to stabilize longer without reducing for a while could be an idea. 
 

3 hours ago, Happy2Heal said:

 

I tried to give you non drug coping skills that I think may help you.

Have you tried any of them?

Yes I did try yoga and the the neck video helps. thank you. 
 

3 hours ago, Happy2Heal said:

Have you considered reducing how much exercise you do during the day? making sure you do it in the morning and not late  at night, as that can disrupt your sleep (exercising late in the day is not recommended for any one as far as I know) 

if you drink coffee have you tried to withdraw off that slowly to see if it helps?

I don’t do much exercice except walk the dog and bicycle 3 times a week. Might join the gym to do cardio when cant go out. 
i don’t drink alcohol, I don’t smoke, and I only drink one coffee with oak milk for breakfast (before it was all day)

 

3 hours ago, Happy2Heal said:

have you tried any of the neck and other exercises that I sent you links about?

have you tried a hot bath? distraction? maybe listening to soothing music or relaxation tapes when you can't sleep?

Yes I did try yoga and neck. not hot bath I only have shower at home. And thanks god my wife is there to push me forward. I do easily manage day time…. Night is just so unbearable ! Just the reason why I would like to find a confort I had a month ago and the whole last year to keep my job and my hobbies. 
 

3 hours ago, Happy2Heal said:

se do not message me unless you are interesting in suggestions for things you can to do deal with your symptoms that do not involved drugs or doses, ok?

Sorry I have done something wrong but your advice to feel better while in wave or to support WD is precious ! Thank you. 

[Nicolas45140]

@Shep hello to you. I have been told that I could get some advice from you from my last posts…. 
I was at 3mg since October 2022 and moved to 2,9mg, 1st of January. Two weeks later I felt miserable and still now !!! things I never felt in a year tapering. Insomnia, migraine, headache, head tension, panic attack, intrusive thoughts, night anxiety, anedhonia.
i did go back up to 3mg for 2 days now… but I may think to go back to 3,2 or 3,5 to go back to a confort zone where I’m ok with good sleep and be able to keep my job and all. 
what would you think ? Thank you 🙏 

[Happy2Heal]

6 hours ago, Nicolas45140 said:

Sorry I have done something wrong but your advice to feel better while in wave or to support WD is precious ! Thank you. 

no, you didn't do anything wrong!
I'm happy to try to help when I can, but when it comes to dosing, I don't know enough and am very uncomfortable giving advice about that.

 

I worry that you might make things worse going up and down in your dose.

 

I understand wanting to feel like you did before, but you could be risking feeling worse, instead.

 

Glad to hear you are trying non drug coping skills.