FireflyFyte: Latuda withdrawal

[Sonia009]

@FireflyFyte Hi, I can relate to everything you say, I reduced just before going on a break a couple of weeks ago but the entire process of reducing, living at a strange address, packing and unpacking and doing it all again on returning home really took its toll on me. I found it all very stressful which exacerbated my symptoms. I hope things settle down for you soon. Kind regards.😊🙏

 

[FireflyFyte]

On Sunday night, I dropped down to 0.6mg of Olanzapine.

 

I continue to have dulled emotions and while I try not to dwell on it, and accept that they will return as I continue to taper, I still often find it difficult to not feel "human" most of the time. I think this is compounded by the fact that even when I jump off of Olanzapine, I still still having Gabapentin and Prozac acting as dampeners on my emotions and it will take many, many years until I am fully free from psychiatric medication.

 

In the last week, I have also been very honest with myself and realized that I have been drinking too much for a long, long time which is almost certainly making my recovery more difficult so I have download an app to help me minimize and possibly eliminate drinking entirely. It has daily tasks, forums, and online meetings which have been helpful thus far.

 

 

[manymoretodays]

6 hours ago, FireflyFyte said:

I continue to have dulled emotions and while I try not to dwell on it, and accept that they will return as I continue to taper, I still often find it difficult to not feel "human" most of the time. I think this is compounded by the fact that even when I jump off of Olanzapine, I still still having Gabapentin and Prozac acting as dampeners on my emotions and it will take many, many years until I am fully free from psychiatric medication.

 

In the last week, I have also been very honest with myself and realized that I have been drinking too much for a long, long time which is almost certainly making my recovery more difficult so I have download an app to help me minimize and possibly eliminate drinking entirely. It has daily tasks, forums, and online meetings which have been helpful thus far.

Well, I'm pleased as punch that you ARE doing so well getting off the Zyprexa first, and while doing so, are living your life.

Great observation, and I agree........if you've been drinking too much and for a long, long, time.....it will definitely add to a more difficult recovery from psychiatric drugs.  Glad to hear you've taken the initiative to possibly eliminate that confounding factor entirely.  

 

I'm presently 63 and 1/2 hour(s) off the cigarettes, which I picked up again about 6 months ago.......AND very grateful for a vibrant community(online) of Nicotine Anonymous......to find support ongoing this time, rather than just the Quit Line-  and not knocking the Quit Line, as that helps too......yet their support is limited to pretty much just up until one gets to 6 months time.  Then I've had to wait 3 months for re-enrollment, and it's been at 6 months- that I relapsed both times......in the last 2 and 1/2 years.  I do love how in the Nicotine A, they recognize the psychoactive-ness of even nicotene! 

 

I'm still clear of alcohol and any pot.......for now 8 years plus and really do love the AA program.  It beats loneliness for sure, the in person groups, and then friendships that have developed.   Even some of the virtual groups.  I love all my family in sobriety, I do.......even those on a different path from mine......those just getting into psych drugs and psychiatry.  I wish I could tell them all that I've learned and save them all from some of the experiences I had.  But I can't.  And for me, that ongoing realization that I don't need anything psychoactive anymore.......it's a great freedom.  Anyway.......I digress.   I don't have problems anymore deflecting when or if someone tells me to do something, that I know is beyond where I'm at in my recovery, or is frankly, inappropriate.......or if they are promoting psych drugs or psychiatry outside of a meeting.........heck, that's their life and path now, not mine.......it's clear when someone just doesn't want to hear the part of my story regarding my psychiatric experiences including my drugging years that way.  I can share it briefly during a meeting.  And hope someone might then call me and be open to my guidance regarding prescription psycho actives.  I don't have be on the same path as everyone else out there to begin or continue to live the best life I can......with spiritual guidance.  EVERYONE struggles sometimes, and I realize my good fortune now........and focus on gratitude, attitude, and action.  Even more so now......  I have to get out of my computer chair more than ever, as shoot........I was pretty sedentary this whole past Winter and late fall.   And might be one of the only ones to use my android most as a phone, and an occasional text device, as well as for GPS.  So sick of vegging in front of Netflix too, for that matter.  Getting on to the simpler things that I used to enjoy is fun.  I build up mastery every day.   Soreness after long walking adventures.......I can easily get myself self diagnosed with something, if I'm not mindful.......

 

Here's to my next walk, and maybe the garden I can recreate and the home sweet home revisions for now.   Then, just maybe the Universe will smile on me even more......and align with what I think I want, but may not NEED to have........in my future.   And here's to your continued work life, and home life, and vacations, and volunteering in service here, and all your relations!

 

Just know, you've come so far FirerflyFyte since arrival here.  Unlikely you'll ever need inpatient again.  I haven't.  You can recognize when you might be going too fast with your taper, or that it's the drugs, or moving towards homeostasis, or even WD, not you......not that real you just anxious to be free. It's butterfly season......let's enjoy it.  Take your time, continue wise with your taper.  Yah, and don't discount the post vacation blues either.  That's a thing even normies or drug virgins experience.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 28 by manymoretodays
elaborating again :-)

[Tweed9674]

11 hours ago, FireflyFyte said:

In the last week, I have also been very honest with myself and realized that I have been drinking too much for a long, long time which is almost certainly making my recovery more difficult so I have download an app to help me minimize and possibly eliminate drinking entirely. It has daily tasks, forums, and online meetings which have been helpful thus far.

I too, was drinking way too much for way too long. It's an habit I picked shortly after I started effexor back in the day.

To this day, I wonder if it was the effexor that made me drink or the fact that it didn't really work for my anxiety.

Maybe both.

 

I had a few moments here and there where I would not drink for a few weeks.

Then I would allow myself one drink. And the cycle restarded.

 

In the end, I had to stop completely. I don't know if it is possible for me to just take a drink once in a while.

 

But for now, I am way better off.

[hayduke]

15 hours ago, FireflyFyte said:

On Sunday night, I dropped down to 0.6mg of Olanzapine.

 

I continue to have dulled emotions and while I try not to dwell on it, and accept that they will return as I continue to taper, I still often find it difficult to not feel "human" most of the time. I think this is compounded by the fact that even when I jump off of Olanzapine, I still still having Gabapentin and Prozac acting as dampeners on my emotions and it will take many, many years until I am fully free from psychiatric medication.

 

In the last week, I have also been very honest with myself and realized that I have been drinking too much for a long, long time which is almost certainly making my recovery more difficult so I have download an app to help me minimize and possibly eliminate drinking entirely. It has daily tasks, forums, and online meetings which have been helpful thus far.

It's likely that stopping drinking will unmask a lot of emotions.

Much better to have this balanced before coming off the drug.  I think the combination of alcohol and dopamine super/sensitivity is one to be really wary of.

[FireflyFyte]

17 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Just know, you've come so far FirerflyFyte since arrival here.  Unlikely you'll ever need inpatient again.  I haven't.  You can recognize when you might be going too fast with your taper, or that it's the drugs, or moving towards homeostasis, or even WD, not you......not that real you just anxious to be free. It's butterfly season......let's enjoy it.  Take your time, continue wise with your taper.  Yah, and don't discount the post vacation blues either.  That's a thing even normies or drug virgins experience.

 

Thank you, manymoretodays 💜 I always appreciate your wisdom.

 

11 hours ago, Tweed9674 said:

I too, was drinking way too much for way too long. It's an habit I picked shortly after I started effexor back in the day.

To this day, I wonder if it was the effexor that made me drink or the fact that it didn't really work for my anxiety.

Maybe both.

 

I am curious about this myself as well. I was never a consistent drinker until I started medication but will probably never know if the medication played a factor and/or if it was due to the stressors that pushed me to get medicated.

 

8 hours ago, hayduke said:

It's likely that stopping drinking will unmask a lot of emotions.

Much better to have this balanced before coming off the drug.  I think the combination of alcohol and dopamine super/sensitivity is one to be really wary of.

 

I am hoping that I will feel more without alcohol. I appreciate your note on alcohol and dopamine sensitivity and will keep an eye on it.

[Ariel]

Hi @FireflyFyte

 

Nice to "meet" you, and thank you for the wonderful work you do here!

 

3 hours ago, FireflyFyte said:

I am curious about this myself as well. I was never a consistent drinker until I started medication but will probably never know if the medication played a factor and/or if it was due to the stressors that pushed me to get medicated.

 

Just wanted to mention that there has been some research about some people drinking more in response to SSRIs (and possibly other psych drugs).

For example, Paxil is notorious for somehow causing people to drink heavily. Same goes for other meds. 

 

Dr. David Healy has been writing about this for some time. If the topic is of interest to you and @manymoretodays and @Tweed9674 (or anyone else), Healy's website might be a place to start: 

 

https://rxisk.org/a-medical-triumph-that-took-a-decade/

 

https://davidhealy.org/out-of-my-mind-driven-to-drink/

 

The other week this subject came up in another member's thread, will try to remember who. The matter resurfaces regularly, I get the impression it's a fairly common issue. People don't tend to connect the drinking with their psych drug, but it can be. 

 

Good luck with the recent drop, and thanks again for your contribution to SA. 

Wishing you all the best, sending healing vibes,

Ariel 

[Ariel]

Found it! 

 

LostinCanada posted this in member Albert's topic in response to his inquiry:

 

On 5/20/2024 at 4:45 PM, LostInCanada said:

Paroxetine changes the way the liver metabolizes alcohol. It also causes a craving for alcohol. I can't remember the chemistry behind it but I had found something on Google scholar. 

 

Brassmonkey has also written in his topic about Paxil and alcohol. 

 

It doesn't look like you're dealing with paroxetine, this is just FYI and apropos.

Similar principle in regards to other psych drugs and alcohol, it seems; the drugs can cause cravings (and perhaps act disinhibiting?). 

 

You're not alone <3

[manymoretodays]

1 hour ago, Ariel said:

Similar principle in regards to other psych drugs and alcohol, it seems; the drugs can cause cravings (and perhaps act disinhibiting?). 

For sure.  With me, it was the Lexapro.......seemed I could drink a lot and hold more of it.  And then.....of course, isn't alcohol is known to be disinhibiting?  In that way where one might act outside of their value system.  I don't know if I craved it more, the alcohol.....on Lexapro......maybe a little.

 

Effexor......oh my, as far as sending me well beyond my original nature(maybe disinhibiting?).  For sure!  I thought I had found "normality" at first......that that was how other's always felt.  Sure glad I caught on, fairly early, within a year or so......that NO- this was not normal. 

 

Twas the beginning of my "drug induced bipolarity".  AND happy to report, it is no longer, or I no longer suffer those mood swings up and down at all.  Cured.  🙂

 

Thanks for links and good, so good that the writer/researchers are getting this stuff published and out there.  Stranger than fiction.

[FireflyFyte]

22 hours ago, Ariel said:

It doesn't look like you're dealing with paroxetine, this is just FYI and apropos.

Similar principle in regards to other psych drugs and alcohol, it seems; the drugs can cause cravings (and perhaps act disinhibiting?). 

 

You're not alone ❤️

 

I appreciate the resources and will spend some time looking into this further!

[FireflyFyte]

Yesterday evening, dropped down to 0.57mg of Olanzapine.

 

I have been battling thoughts of halving my Prozac dose in a futile effort to experience a wider range of emotions. I know this is a reckless idea but, goodness, do I miss feeling the feelings 💔

I continue to work on greatly reducing my alcohol consumption. Last week (Sunday to Saturday) I had a total of 4 drinks when, previously, that number would have been at least 14 drinks if not more. My aim for this week is to only have 2-3 drinks total so will continue to rely on the app I downloaded, attend meetings, and hold myself accountable to some of my friends and family members. I found it fascinating that the app/program I am using recommends lowering alcohol consumption by 10% per week to try and mitigate withdrawals; sound familiar?

I was hoping that my motivation would increase with a lot less alcohol in my system but haven't seen that result surface, yet. I am sure that it doesn't help that I have Olanzapine and Gabapentin tampering my system down 😔

Also battling increased stress with multiple work factors and several dogs with medical issues which is not helping my current state. Trying to give myself grace where I can.

[N2deep]

I believe you will be able to get the booze in check. I started binge drinking a few days a week at the ripe old age of 11, and was an 8-10 drink a night drinker for many years. When I got sick with Long Covid that immediately put an end to that, I was bedridden for a good long while so drinking was the last thing on my mind. And then after getting put on this lovely drug, I figured my best chance of getting off is staying the hell away from booze ... apart from that one day I did have a couple drinks, and my Long Covid-induced very high blood pressure dropped down to around 85/45 w/150bpm heart rate, sitting down ... pretty wacko. So that is all to say I won't be touching alcohol for years, and once you get some time away, it ain't so hard. And you can hit it from many angles - for me, just the fear of alcohol making tapering withdrawals worse, or lengthening the time it takes to taper, is all I need to stay sober. Another one is that, even on metabolism-destroying olanzapine, I am 30 pounds lighter than when I was drinking. The way I see it you can either drink booze, or have a half-decent looking physique, can't have both. I think even a tiny amount of alcohol has a far greater effect on one's physique than just its calorie content can account for.

 

Anyway, YOU CAN DO IT!!!

[FireflyFyte]

On 6/20/2024 at 2:09 PM, N2deep said:

Another one is that, even on metabolism-destroying olanzapine, I am 30 pounds lighter than when I was drinking. The way I see it you can either drink booze, or have a half-decent looking physique, can't have both.

 

I agree wholeheartedly. I have dropped around 5 pounds so far and am hoping to shed another 5-10, ideally.

 

On 6/20/2024 at 2:09 PM, N2deep said:

Anyway, YOU CAN DO IT!!!

 

Thank you 💜Have only had one drink this past week so moving in the right direction and about to pop onto a support meeting!

[FireflyFyte]

Another drop made in my Olanzapine so am at 0.54mg. Depending on how I feel, my plan is to jump at 0.2mg but will go lower if needed.

 

As mentioned in my response to N2deep, I have only had one drink in the last week which I am proud of but I also started my menstrual cycle on Sunday which has left me feeling downtrodden and with even less energy than usual so don't really feel like celebrating at the moment. Being born a woman is just so much fun 🤣

Otherwise, life stressors remain high with a lot of pressure at work and dogs that require a lot of attention. I should probably dedicate more time to breathing exercises and meditation.

[FireflyFyte]

After my drop on Sunday, I ended up experiencing fairly severe heartburn and nausea on and off on Tuesday and Wednesday and cannot connect it to any change in my diet so am curious if it is related to my latest decrease in Olanzapine. *knock on wood* I haven't experienced it today but will have to see if it returns when I drop again in a week and a half.

[manymoretodays]

And how goes it now......on Tuesday?

0.54 mg now of Zyprexa, woo hoo!

On 6/25/2024 at 7:48 AM, FireflyFyte said:

Depending on how I feel, my plan is to jump at 0.2mg but will go lower if needed.

Starting dose was 2.5 mg?  So I come up with .2 mg being about 8% of your starting dose then, if you like maths.  And I think that sounds good, and again especially if you play it by ear and adapt and go even lower if needed.

 

Hope symptoms resolved nicely and you just got busy.  When did symptoms occur, in the day or waking you up from sleep?  Was your sleep affected?  Do tell.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Edited July 3 by manymoretodays

[FireflyFyte]

10 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

And how goes it now......on Tuesday?

 

The nausea and heartburn has basically disappeared so will be curious to see if it returns after my next drop.

 

10 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Hope symptoms resolved nicely and you just got busy.  When did symptoms occur, in the day or waking you up from sleep?  Was your sleep affected?  Do tell.

 

They happened during the day, usually around 1/2 PM and last for a few hours. Thankfully, it resolved before bed so my sleep was not impacted.

[manymoretodays]

That's good news then, and yes if the same symptoms appear after the next drop and no other changes happening.......then it could be so, related to the olanzapine taper.

 

You've seen: When to end the taper and jump to zero ?  And then I think there is more that has been written in this regard as well.  A lot pertaining to SSRI's but perhaps some pertaining to the AP's as well.  1/40th of the original dose comes to my mind now, likely from something Mark Horowitz published??  So I come up with a end dose of .062 mg, being 1/40 of a starting dose of 2.5 mg.

I don't know just how your interplay of other drugs, the Prozac and Gabapentin plays into all that, or if it does.  Maybe you've checked with brassmonkey too, or I often defer to him here for ?'s  And then you have your own wisdom too!!  Which honest, has been a joy to see and see you develop more of it and all, since coming here.

 

Hurray on symptoms resolved!  Celebrating the little wins along the way with you FFF!

[Thorin]

Hi FfF. Hope you’re well. You’re making good progress. I saw you’ve been cutting back your drinking. I can confirm that I used to drink a lot. A lot. Not drunk every day but a few drinks every day and definitely drunk multiple nights on the weekend. This all changed when I significantly reduced my meds. I used to get cravings for alcohol and now I rarely think about it! I haven’t had a drink in just under 12 months and the only thing that really changed (well I’ve changed but besides that) was getting most of the way off my meds. Just keep doing what you’re doing and you’ll get there. Take care.

[FireflyFyte]

On 7/6/2024 at 6:01 AM, Thorin said:

Just keep doing what you’re doing and you’ll get there. Take care.

 

Thank you, Thorin. The cravings have been manageable and am growing more curious if a completely alcohol free lifestyle is for me.

[FireflyFyte]

Two days since my latest drop of Olanzapine to 0.51mg and the heartburn and nauseous pangs are back 😫 It would seem they are in fact related to withdrawals so have to decide if I make smaller drops, change my diet, and/or just deal with being uncomfortable for 2-3 days after each drop. I acknowledge that I am lucky that this is the first noticeable withdrawal symptom that I have had while tapering Olanzapine but it is annoying, all the same.

[Thorin]

On 7/10/2024 at 3:17 AM, FireflyFyte said:

 

Thank you, Thorin. The cravings have been manageable and am growing more curious if a completely alcohol free lifestyle is for me.

You can always try it and if you don’t like it you can have a drink 🤷‍♂️

[Emonda]

On 7/10/2024 at 3:17 AM, FireflyFyte said:

am growing more curious if a completely alcohol free lifestyle is for me.

 

I think it's been ~16 months now since I touched alcohol. I never drank much. At first, I missed it, but not now.

 

I can say I don't miss the feelings of anxiety caused by alcohol in the morning after only one or two drinks.

 

You're making progress 👍

[FireflyFyte]

On 7/11/2024 at 11:45 PM, Emonda said:

You're making progress 👍

 

Thank you, Emonda!

 

Drank a bit more than intended on vacation but back to not really drinking at all since I've gotten home (1 drink in the last week) and plan to behave in Vegas next week as well.

[FireflyFyte]

Two days since my latest drop of Olanzapine (now at 0.48mg) and so far no heartburn or nausea so maybe I will avoid it with this drop? Fingers crossed 🤞

 

I have noticed an increase of anxiety symptoms (tight chest, grinding teeth, etc.) but I also ended a romantic relationship on Saturday and then had someone yell at me at a flea market on Sunday (evidently existing as a queer person is the greatest threat to America's children...) so I think it is more situational than withdrawal related but glad that I have a few weeks to settle before I go down in dose again.

 

Otherwise, trying to manage increasing stress at work which seems to be ever increasing.

 

I have also gotten back into coloring which helps calm my anxiety.

 

 

[FireflyFyte]

I have had intermittent GI issues in the last few weeks and besides one incident that might have been connected to early-expired half and half, I can't pinpoint any other cause other than dropping down in my Olanzapine dose. Sadly, GI issues are seemingly very common while trying to taper from Olanzapine. Just one of its' many joys 😅 

 

I am down to 0.455mg of Olanzapine though with the hope of jumping at 0.2mg but will see how I am feeling at that stage before making a concrete decision.

 

Otherwise, my state has been much the same. I don't tend to feel many, if any, "good" feelings but experience anxiety, depression, and loneliness. They are tolerable though and I am grateful for that.

[Emonda]

Dear @FireflyFyte,

Just reaching out to see how you are doing.

 

Warm wishes, Emonda

[FireflyFyte]

Hello @Emonda,

 

I am doing OK.

 

Anxiety is sitting in the 7-8 out of 10 range which is straining but try to rely on different coping mechanisms to manage and continue working, caring for the critters, and making sure my house doesn't fall into complete disrepair.

 

Have a fun weekend coming up though so trying to hold on that.

 

How are you?

[Emonda]

4 hours ago, FireflyFyte said:

I am doing OK.

👍

 

4 hours ago, FireflyFyte said:

Anxiety is sitting in the 7-8 out of 10 range which is straining

 

Yeah, that's my main complaint...anxiety.

 

4 hours ago, FireflyFyte said:

continue working, caring for the critters, and making sure my house doesn't fall into complete disrepair.

 

Can relate to each of these. My pets are a source of joy for me.

 

4 hours ago, FireflyFyte said:

How are you?

 

WD normal is I guess the description I'd use. Just plodding along and managing the odd spike in symptoms here and there.

 

We keep pushing forward ,slowly 🐌

[FireflyFyte]

On 8/16/2024 at 4:06 PM, Emonda said:

WD normal is I guess the description I'd use. Just plodding along and managing the odd spike in symptoms here and there.

 

We keep pushing forward ,slowly 🐌

 

This describes it perfectly. I am essentially in a low-level of withdrawal at all times but it's manageable, though annoying, and try to address it when it gets worse.

[FireflyFyte]

Dropped again on Tuesday night so am now at 0.43mg of Olanzapine.

 

Through diet (calorie counting and changes to eating habits), have lost close to 6lbs and hope to drop at least another 10lbs. I gained around 20lbs from Olanzapine and/or Gabapentin.

 

Anxiety continues to sit at a 7-8 at most times (my poor jaw hurts from all the clenching 😫) but I am trying to accept it as my current reality and not allow it to spiral to even higher levels. It's annoying and debating holding a little longer at my current dose to see if it lifts any.

 

Otherwise, I am just trying to get through life. Working, maintaining my house, caring for my pets, and seeing friends when possible.

[N2deep]

4 hours ago, FireflyFyte said:

 

 I am essentially in a low-level of withdrawal at all times but it's manageable, though annoying, and try to address it when it gets worse.

How long have you been experiencing this? ...I was under the impression that you were basically symptom-free on the olanzapine taper the whole time. Would you say it has gotten worse at the lower levels (say, under 1mg)? I sure hope not, I've seen people say it gets easier down there and was hoping that was true.

 

Anyway, if you are feeling constant anxiety, you may just want to hold for a little bit and wait for it to go away. Back during the winter I was in the same state, probably (way lol) worse, and thought I had it "under control" but then I crashed and it just slowed me down massively (not to mention the stress and sorrow and sleep evaporating). Better to hold for weeks than to get screwed for months. If I were employed I would be mega careful about things not getting out of hand. You've been able to move down quickly (at 10%/4 weeks) for the whole time so a little hold is a drop in the bucket. Just my opinion of course.

[FireflyFyte]

12 minutes ago, N2deep said:

How long have you been experiencing this? ...I was under the impression that you were basically symptom-free on the olanzapine taper the whole time. Would you say it has gotten worse at the lower levels (say, under 1mg)?

 

I am mostly symptom-free beyond the persistent anxiety (which is manageable) and occasional GI upsets. Admittedly, it is hard to say exactly when this started as I have had a few emotional events over the last few months so not entirely sure when I realized the anxiety might be WD versus a response to life. 

 

14 minutes ago, N2deep said:

Anyway, if you are feeling constant anxiety, you may just want to hold for a little bit and wait for it to go away. Back during the winter I was in the same state, probably (way lol) worse, and thought I had it "under control" but then I crashed and it just slowed me down massively (not to mention the stress and sorrow and sleep evaporating). Better to hold for weeks than to get screwed for months. If I were employed I would be mega careful about things not getting out of hand.

 

I agree. I am going to see where I am anxiety wise in two weeks, when I am due to make another drop, and see if I hold for longer.

[FireflyFyte]

Last Thursday, I tested positive for COVID. While I was very concerned that dealing with the virus would ramp up my withdrawal symptoms, it seemed to actually help? 🤷‍♀️ The anxiety that I have been experiencing as of late basically disappeared once I got ill with COVID. I have no explanation.

 

As of this morning, I have tested negative and continue to not experience the anxiety.

 

I did drop last night to 0.41mg of Olanzapine so will closely monitor to determine if withdrawal symptoms resurface.