Bloomseine

[Altostrata]

Using a scale to weigh and measure doses

How to cut up tablets or pills
 

Combining tablets or capsules with liquid to taper

[bloomseine]

On 4/24/2023 at 12:34 PM, Altostrata said:

Using a scale to weigh and measure doses

How to cut up tablets or pills
 

Combining tablets or capsules with liquid to taper

Thank you I had a look at these but don't quite understand. Would it not be easier just to put the pill into liquid? 

I spoke to the gp about lowering my dose and eventually coming off olanzapine she said the psychiatrist said a combination of sertraline and olanzapine reduce the risk of future psychosis and that I should stay on this combination, I explained that I was misdiagnosed as having depressive psychosis when I had postnatal psychosis and with postnatal psychosis the psychosis doesn't come back. I was put on Olanzapine to treat postnatal psychosis and sertraline for low mood after. She said she will refer me back to the community mental health team. I will no longer tell them I was misdiagnosed as this seems to undermine them and confuse them I will only say I want to lower the dose to 7.5mg hopefully this will work I am sad I have to talk to the psychiatrist again.

[Faure]

I’m sorry the doctor is not listening to you. You are under no obligation to do what they tell you. If you want to come off these drugs, having done your research, then that is within your right. They are negatively affecting your life so badly that you have sadly now lost your job.
 

Some people on here just tell the doctors they are ‘’doing fine on the dose they are on’” while undertaking a taper supported by this website (and not telling the doctor). If they are not listening to you then you may have to do it this way as well.  This may be easier than battling with the medical profession who only want to throw pills at every problem they see.  

[bloomseine]

@Faure yes I will probably end up doing it myself. Once you have a label everything that you think or do is seen as psychotic. I did try to commit suicide so they are extra cautious with me. At the time it was because I blamed myself for my daughters disability thinking it was my fault, I wanted to remove myself from her life so she could progress because I thought I was holding her back.

[Altostrata]

19 hours ago, bloomseine said:

Thank you I had a look at these but don't quite understand. Would it not be easier just to put the pill into liquid? 

 

 

We had been talking about a gradual switch from tablet to liquid form. 

 

On 4/22/2023 at 9:07 AM, bloomseine said:

I understand but it is hard to get an accurate reading on my scale when I want to half the pill. I'm not sure how I can do the maths of tapering half the dose. How would it work?

 

The links respond to this question.

 

I would not confuse your doctors by asking them how to taper, they generally have no clue. You might tell them you've been on the drugs so long, you want to lower your doses to the minimum effective dose.

[bloomseine]

@Altostrata Thank you, I am currently cutting my pill to my current dose then now cutting that dose into quarters and making liquid out of some of it. I'm going up in quarters I am now on 3/4 liquid now and 1/4 pill. I use 1ml 50% alcohol and the rest water to make the liquid as I heard olanzapine is not water soluble so hopefully it will make a more even liquid. I was hoping to get the psychiatrics to agree that I should no longer be on the medication and should be taking steps to come off, I would not tell him about tapering just get him to agree to lower it when I ask him to gradually. It doesn't fit right with me to think that he thinks I have depressive psychotic tendency's and should be treated as so, but if I try and say I don't he doesn't believe me, I know people who have had postnatal psychosis and are drug free within a year with the doctors consent.   

 

I am still looking for a job Im struggling at interviews as the olanzapine has wiped my enthusiasm and charisma I am unable to hold conversations or to think sharply. I have only been looking for lowly paid jobs as if I look for something more demanding I think I won't pass the interview and or be unable to keep the job as I am tired and abit socially withdrawn. So far I have only gotten interviews for night shifts, I have not heard back from any yet. I don't know how I would feel taking my olanzapine in the morning rather then at night as on my days off I would like to enjoy myself during the day and not feel too sleepy, can I take it in the morning after a night shift but on my days off take it at night? Or should I stick to one or the other? Im also struggling to find a job as my three year old is disabled and I have to do therapies with her on a Wednesday and I don't know of any jobs that could accommodate that. Im doing my driving lessons but I heard the dopamine receptors are key to your learning abilities and my dopamine is shot from these drugs so I don't know if I will pass my test. I am trying to eat nutrient rich food to make what dopamine I have left be as strong as possible.

 

Thanks you are all so helpful    

 

[Altostrata]

How much of everything are you taking now, at what times o'clock?

[bloomseine]

I am on 7.9mg of olanzapine and 100mg of sertraline. I still take them both at 10pm. 

[Altostrata]

On 4/10/2023 at 9:55 AM, bloomseine said:

Using OLANZapine together with sertraline can increase the risk of an irregular heart rhythm that may be serious and potentially life-threatening, although it is a relatively rare side effect.

 

Taking the 2 drugs together increases the potential of interaction. You may not have this symptom, but it's possible they're collaborating in something, possibly making you fatigued.

 

If I were you, I'd keep the olanzapine at the current dosage and gradually move sertraline by an hour each day until you're taking it at noon. Please let us know how you feel during this process.

[bloomseine]

@Altstrata  could I start lowering the sertraline as well as the olanzapine also? or is it really not advised? I thought if I get withdrawal I could hold both medication at the same? just a thought. I was hoping that I could start tapering olanzapine again once I moved to liquid. Are you suggesting that I start tapering olanzapine again after I move sertraline to noon?

 

[Altostrata]

10 minutes ago, bloomseine said:

could I start lowering the sertraline as well as the olanzapine also? or is it really not advised?

 

This is really not advised. But after you separate the drugs, you could do this.

[bloomseine]

3 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

This is really not advised. But after you separate the drugs, you could do this.

 I really appreciate your help, I will follow what is advised and is good practice.I have set my alarm to remind me to take sertraline one hour earlier every day.

[bloomseine]

I got a night shift jobs it is three nights a week. I'm thinking of moving my olanzapine to take at midday, that  way I won't be too tired during the night shift and not too tired on my days off. I was thinking about taking it in the morning after my night shift then in the night when I'm not working but I don't think it is adviced to keep changing the time when I  take it.

[Altostrata]

20 minutes ago, bloomseine said:

I got a night shift jobs it is three nights a week. I'm thinking of moving my olanzapine to take at midday, that  way I won't be too tired during the night shift and not too tired on my days off. I was thinking about taking it in the morning after my night shift then in the night when I'm not working but I don't think it is adviced to keep changing the time when I  take it.

 

No, I would not move it around many times. Every time you move it, your nervous system will have to accommodate to the change, which could take more than a week or two.

[bloomseine]

I was thinking of just moving it to 12noon and keeping it there so I'm no longer taking it at night. I would move it one hour every day until I get to 12noon or would you suggest I carry on taking it at 10pm?

Thanks!

[Faure]

Glad to hear you have got a job. This is great news. I wish you all the best with it ☺️

[Altostrata]

1 hour ago, bloomseine said:

I was thinking of just moving it to 12noon and keeping it there so I'm no longer taking it at night. I would move it one hour every day until I get to 12noon or would you suggest I carry on taking it at 10pm?

Thanks!

 

If it doesn't make you sleepy at an inopportune time....what are you going to do about the sertraline?

[bloomseine]

@AltostrataI don't know if it makes me sleepy because I've only taken it just before bed . I think I best move it to 12noon just in case it does make me sleepy. I will keep the sertraline where it is now and start moving the olanzapine. 

[bloomseine]

1 hour ago, Faure said:

Glad to hear you have got a job. This is great news. I wish you all the best with it ☺️

Thank you, I have no idea how it will go, if I will be too tired or not but Im glad I passed an interview I was getting abit down before. 

[bloomseine]

Hi,

I've started taking Olanzapine at 12noon. I feel allot more energy in the mornings I'm able to get up before 8. Previously I asked the gp if I could slowly reduce Olanzapine then eventually come off completely, she contacted the mental health team who have said they suggest I stay on it at a low dose long term, they have agreed to lower it gradually till I get to a low dose.I will carry on doing 5% every 2 weeks and ask them to lower it when I need it. I'm annoyed because my original diagnosis was postnatal psychosis and I was only suppose to be on it for a year it was never to be long term. I guess I have to take things into my own hands. I'm just glad that I know that withdrawal exists and it is not just me and it is possible to come off completely.

[Altostrata]

Please review  Tips for tapering off olanzapine (Zyprexa)

[bloomseine]

Hi,

I calculated that it will take 6 years to come off with doing a 5% reduction every 2 weeks is that right? I don't know if I'm doing the math right. I might start doing a 10% reduction every 2 weeks instead because I can't wait another 6 years then another for my sertraline because I would like to have another baby in the future. Also I watched the BBC documentary called the antidepressant story  where they mention this website they talked about tapering and said the 10% reduction was only decided by word of mouth this undermined the websites recommendations basically saying it is unscientific but I read on here the 10% came up through lots of trial and error, overall Im quite happy that they are talking about withdrawal now, they also said  doing the tapering process people could judge what speed to go at depending on their reaction to each drop so me going up to 10% every two weeks and seeing how it goes should be ok right?  

[Faure]

Hi @bloomseine, lots of us have seen the bbc documentary, it was great that it was on prime time tv! There is no science that has been done to study how to safely get people off these drugs. Because the drugs companies don’t want to know about the trouble it causes because that would negatively impact their huge profits. So the only method to get off them is that which has been found through trial and error, 10% is a starting point.  Many people find that is too much for them and need to go slower.  6 years sounds quite a long time. With a standard 10% every 4 weeks I believe it takes around 3 years to get off. You should look at the tapering spreadsheets and check what you’ve worked out. 
 

It is not advised to go faster than 10% every 4 weeks unless your withdrawal symptoms are very mild and resolve within a few days of a cut. (see the first post, it’s all relevant).  I am doing the BrassMonkey slide which is 10% every 6 weeks and even though I get next to no withdrawal symptoms, when I cut my hold from 2 weeks to 1 week recently I really suffered towards the end of the next cycle. I decided it isn’t worth the risk. I felt so exhausted I was terrified I was going to get ill again. Fortunately I was able to rest and have heeded that major warning signal not to try to go faster. 

I see all the mods advising against going faster because once things go wrong it can take months to recover and it is faster simply to stay at the 10% taper, frustrating though this is. I sympathise with you wanting another child….we are all paying a terrible price for being on these drugs ☹️

 

[bloomseine]

Hi,

@Altostrata and who ever is interested, I have an inclination that I know what those "episodes" that I talked previously about are,after searching the internet about psychiatry, I may be self labeling which is not always the wisest but the closest thing I can think of is having perplexed affect which is a common symptom of schizophrenia apparently. Here is how it is described in an article which is the closest thing to how I feel in those moments  A form of mental confusion in which the patient is assailed with doubt and uncertainty about his own thoughts.Perplexity is one of the more transient disorders of thinking found primarily in schizophrenia. I am wondering if maybe I do have schizophrenia,if I do it was liveable before taking olanzapine, I wonder if schizophrenia affect can get worse after having a baby? I have never heard voices and sore hallucinations or had disordered thoughts before except when I smoked weed when I was a teen. When I do get "perplexed affect" I am aware of it and I try to overcome it by taking a nap or shower,when  I do get is I battle with my brain which tells me that I will be in a constant state of the "perplexed affect" and it will be more intense that I won't be able to control it and soon end up dead or in hospital for life with no one, I get really afraid. 

 I would still like to continue reducing my dose and eventually come off as I still believe it is not for long term use and this effect only has been present since Ive been taking olanzapine. 
.

The only thing I get out of taking it is a kind of comfort in doing what the doctors want and Im doing something to cure myself.  It feel good to be part of the medical world and be a good patient. I will have to work on finding inner strength if I'm ever able to come off of them.  

I have loosened up with my diet because I started work and don't have as much time to prepare meals, but the threat of getting diabetes on olanzapine is real so I try to cut out seed oils and vegetable oils as well as sweeteners as I read that cases of diabetes have gone up since they were introduced to our food system and I don't really believe that sugar has as much of an impact on our health as we are lead to believe. 

 

Im sorry about the way I write I am dyslexic so can't punctuate.

Ive started my night shift I find it really hard to banter with colleagues and residents in the care home and Im worried this will have a negative affect on my employability it is still early days as Ive only done 4 shifts so I will see how it goes. I have started an allotment garden recently as well which should help me find positive interests.   

I am taking my dose of olanzapine at 8:30 am and my sertraline at 10 pm, I unfortunately can't keep to the precise schedule as on my days off I wake up at 10am and take my dose then instead of 8:30am.

Thanks for reading

 

   

[Altostrata]

Sorry, a taper takes as long as it takes. Since you've been treated for psychosis, you'll want to be extra careful tapering, so you don't trigger psychosis-like withdrawal symptoms, which could send you back into the system. The effect of the drug should decrease as the dosage decreases, so tapering becomes routine.

[bloomseine]

Hello,

It has been one year since starting my taper journey. I am reducing olanzapine still 5% every two weeks.

Because of olanzapine half life should I do 10% every month instead? 

So far I feel no withdrawal, I'm following the advice on here to go slow. I am now on 2.9mg and calculated it will take me another two years to get off.

What I don't understand is why people say things like it should take half the time you are on the drug to come off? I was on it for 3 years when I started my taper and I calculated doing a 10% monthly reduction it would have taken me three years to come off.

[bloomseine]

Also I'm contemplating slowly coming off sertraline at the same time!

[bloomseine]

Hello,

I have been doing a 2% reduction every two weeks using a liquid taper that I make, I started last February at 12.5 and I am now on 2.1mg of Olanzapine.

Sorry if this question is hard to understand I am not very good at maths.

Looking now at the spread sheet that I use, I see as I reach 0.7mg the taper starts going down into the 0.01ml for example when I get to 0.7mg I will be at 1.49ml then with a 5% reduction I will go down to 1.42ml. Do I count the 0.07 reduction or just jump straight down to where their is a 0.1 reduction?

Thanks!

[bloomseine]

Hi,

I switched to water tapering but have a few questions as I get to a lower dose.

I do 2.5mg into 2.5ml water. That allows me to go down in the 0.1mg increments. What do I do when I need to go down in 0.01mg? Should I do a higher water ratio like 2.5mg into 25ml? Right now I use a 10ml and 1ml syringe.

Also I have been using a spreadsheet that I found on a FB page which has recently been taken down,allot of people used it successfully,I used it to do a dry taper which is what it was designed for but now I have also been using it for calculating my dose in my water taper. Is this OK?

I don't know how to calculate it otherwise. 

When looking at the spreadsheet it looks like I have over two years to go, is there anyone who can advice me on how long it would take doing 5% reduction every two weeks without any hiccups? It seems according to the spreadsheet it will take maybe 5 years. But people online say that they do it in less so not sure if I am doing it right?

 

Thanks!

 

 

[bloomseine]

Hey guys...

Not getting much reply on here. I think I've got this but I am still abit scared, Im worried about the time it will take to come off this med,making an oral solution is getting tedious, I really want to come off but looking at my chart it will be another 3 to 4 years... I use a chart I found for dry tapering, I don't even know if I can apply it to water tapering but it has been going ok I think! 

Sorry I have not updated much.

To be honest I have also started tapering my sertraline, it is probably a bad choice because it makes more work for me, I don't have the courage to ask my doctor to prescribe me liquid form so I am filling the pill down, it sure is boring!

I am not working at the moment, I am looking at my options though! I feel quite positive, I am trying harder to stay positive and busy, trying not to self doubt, also I have started the process of volunteering with the probation team where I live, so far it has been great for my mental health!

 

[Faure]

Hi @bloomseine, sorry I didn’t reply to your earlier post, to be honest I didn’t understand it and I’m bad at numbers so didn’t have anything to contribute. 
 

It would be better to grind up your sertraline and weigh and make up individual tablets.  The active ingredient will be distributed through the pill and it’s much better and safer to grind it up then weigh up pills. It is repetitive and boring, but if we want to get off these drugs safely it’s what we need to do. I can’t remember all the details about why filing isn’t a great idea, but I know I’ve seen it discouraged. 
 

If you want to know how I did it I have instructions I can copy and paste to your thread let me know ☺️
 

Sounds positive you’re doing som volunteering, I hope it goes well ☺️