Apathy, anhedonia, emotional numbness, emotional anesthesia

[Aaron7]

17 hours ago, Kat66 said:

@Aaron7 I'm not a mod so I can't give you advice, but can I suggest you post the above on your intro thread, then a mod has more chance of seeing it and giving you the most appropriate advice. It may be the right course of action for you. I'm so sorry you're suffering, my heart goes out to you with this symptom, it really is horrible. I have it too.

 

I have just posted it on my intro thread, thanks for the advice. Yes this symptom definitely sucks but we must continue to move forward and stay positive. I am also sorry you are suffering with this symptom I hope you improve and recover.

[Kat66]

@Aaron7 we have to believe we will heal. Good luck getting some good advice from the mods, I hope they can help you!

[Aaron7]

3 hours ago, Kat66 said:

@Aaron7 we have to believe we will heal. Good luck getting some good advice from the mods, I hope they can help you!

Thanks I appreciate it.

 

Also, I just saw in your signature you mentioned you are off caffeine. If you don’t mind me asking have noticed any improvements since quitting caffeine. The reason I ask is because I normally drink 2-3 cups of strong black coffee everyday and I’m wondering if it’s hindering my recovery.

[jon1]

18 hours ago, Aaron7 said:

Thanks I appreciate it.

 

Also, I just saw in your signature you mentioned you are off caffeine. If you don’t mind me asking have noticed any improvements since quitting caffeine. The reason I ask is because I normally drink 2-3 cups of strong black coffee everyday and I’m wondering if it’s hindering my recovery.

I know you didn’t ask me, but I’ll mention my experience anyway!

 

I quit caffeine a year ago. It was really tough in the beginning, and many of my symptoms worsened for a few weeks. I guess it was a shock to my CNS as caffeine messes around with so many neurotransmitters.

 

After that period was over though, I felt much better. My baseline anxiety is much lower, and my sleep is so, so much better. Some nights it’s like I’ve been given a sleeping pill!

 

Quitting hasn’t cured my symptoms, but I definitely feel that the extra adrenaline and cortisol every cup produced was making it harder for my body to deal with everything else.

[Aaron7]

52 minutes ago, jon1 said:

I know you didn’t ask me, but I’ll mention my experience anyway!

 

I quit caffeine a year ago. It was really tough in the beginning, and many of my symptoms worsened for a few weeks. I guess it was a shock to my CNS as caffeine messes around with so many neurotransmitters.

 

After that period was over though, I felt much better. My baseline anxiety is much lower, and my sleep is so, so much better. Some nights it’s like I’ve been given a sleeping pill!

 

Quitting hasn’t cured my symptoms, but I definitely feel that the extra adrenaline and cortisol every cup produced was making it harder for my body to deal with everything else.

Thanks for the response!

 

I used to enjoy drinking coffee as it used to give me a dopamine hit. However, ever since I quit Zoloft 10 weeks ago I have completely lost the ability to feel any sort of dopamine or emotion. I have complete emotional numbness and anhedonia. My dopamine levels also feel non existent / extremely low. 
 

Honestly I’m thinking of quitting caffeine as I can’t enjoy it anymore due to the emotional numbness and anhedonia.

[jon1]

1 hour ago, Aaron7 said:

Thanks for the response!

 

I used to enjoy drinking coffee as it used to give me a dopamine hit. However, ever since I quit Zoloft 10 weeks ago I have completely lost the ability to feel any sort of dopamine or emotion. I have complete emotional numbness and anhedonia. My dopamine levels also feel non existent / extremely low. 
 

Honestly I’m thinking of quitting caffeine as I can’t enjoy it anymore due to the emotional numbness and anhedonia.

It might be worth a try! It certainly won’t do any harm.

[Whatheheckhappened]

If you’ve lost your ability to feel emotions. Is it best to try and hold on to who you use to be and try to remember those feelings before antidepressants? Or do you just move on, live life and the emotions will eventually return as normal? I’m terrified to let go of who I was and want to be. Thank you for any responses.

[Aaron7]

I just wanted to ask if anybody knows how to increase dopamine?

 

I think my anhedonia is because of low dopamine. Should I take something to increase it or will my dopamine receptors heal naturally.

 

At the moment it feels like I have no dopamine or motivation and I’m not sure what to do.

[Ariel]

Hi @Aaron7

 

23 minutes ago, Aaron7 said:

I just wanted to ask if anybody knows how to increase dopamine?

 

I think my anhedonia is because of low dopamine. Should I take something to increase it or will my dopamine receptors heal naturally.

 

At the moment it feels like I have no dopamine or motivation and I’m not sure what to do.

 

@jon1 and I have just been chatting about this here

 

I would say don't mess around with any drugs or supplements. Yes, your system will heal with time. 

 

Experimenting with intentional behavioral interventions may be a way to support your brain in its neuroplastic recovery. 

For more information and ideas, here are a few examples of books that might be useful:

Tiny Habits by BJ Fogg

Dopamine Nation by Anna Lembke

Atomic Habits by James Clear

Hardwiring Happiness by Rick Hanson

 

The neuroscience of goals, behavioral/habit change, and positive neuroplasticity has significant overlap with dopamine research. 

I draw a lot of inspiration from reading about this (even if I don't necessarily always implement it), as it's evidence-based, non-drug, and highly actionable -- for example, my favorite and most widely used tool of micro-goals. 

I like this paper (it's probably over my head; nevertheless I find it interesting and helpful). 

 

Also, many reputable sources recommend gentle exercise/movement, meditation, mindfulness, and spending time in nature as tried and true ways of healing activity that has a restorative effect on our systems, incl. dopaminergic pathways. As much as possible, avoid toxic stress and maximize things like positive interactions with animals and kind, supportive people. 

 

Hang in there @Aaron7

Based on your drug signature you are quite recently off the drugs, and you weren't on them for very long. It's probably still early in the process, healing takes time, AND healing is already happening! Healing is happening all the time, even when we don't consciously perceive it.

WD is temporary, it will pass. Just keep going <3

 

In solidarity and support,

Ariel 

[Aaron7]

6 hours ago, Ariel said:

Hi @Aaron7

 

 

@jon1 and I have just been chatting about this here

 

I would say don't mess around with any drugs or supplements. Yes, your system will heal with time. 

 

Experimenting with intentional behavioral interventions may be a way to support your brain in its neuroplastic recovery. 

For more information and ideas, here are a few examples of books that might be useful:

Tiny Habits by BJ Fogg

Dopamine Nation by Anna Lembke

Atomic Habits by James Clear

Hardwiring Happiness by Rick Hanson

 

The neuroscience of goals, behavioral/habit change, and positive neuroplasticity has significant overlap with dopamine research. 

I draw a lot of inspiration from reading about this (even if I don't necessarily always implement it), as it's evidence-based, non-drug, and highly actionable -- for example, my favorite and most widely used tool of micro-goals. 

I like this paper (it's probably over my head; nevertheless I find it interesting and helpful). 

 

Also, many reputable sources recommend gentle exercise/movement, meditation, mindfulness, and spending time in nature as tried and true ways of healing activity that has a restorative effect on our systems, incl. dopaminergic pathways. As much as possible, avoid toxic stress and maximize things like positive interactions with animals and kind, supportive people. 

 

Hang in there @Aaron7

Based on your drug signature you are quite recently off the drugs, and you weren't on them for very long. It's probably still early in the process, healing takes time, AND healing is already happening! Healing is happening all the time, even when we don't consciously perceive it.

WD is temporary, it will pass. Just keep going ❤️

 

In solidarity and support,

Ariel 

Thanks for the advice I really appreciate it.

[peaceandlove]

I get period’s though out the day where I have no emotions & it’s hard to feel.. just numb… anyone else relate?

 

but I honestly rather have that then be able to feel the feeling of anxiety & fear 

[DisplayName3332024]

No improvement in my anhedonia so far. Everything's still the same.

[Kyle1234]

I’m in month 26 of withdrawal but regardless of whether or not I’m in a wave I am still heavily affected anhedonia/emotional numbness/PSSD. The thing that worries me most is that these specific symptoms have got worse week by week, month by month in intervals for over 2 years straight. I’ll go through a wave and then these issues suddenly get worse and I find a new baseline, go through another wave and repeat. This goes for both physical and mental numbness (my genitals get progressively more numb to erogenous sensation to the point they’re non functional now) and the changes in my emotional and physical state are noticeable every time it happens. I get more numb, more anhedonic, less responsive to external stimulus and my cognition/memory becomes more impaired.

 

The changes that happen every 1-2 weeks are smaller but noticeable, there can also be larger shifts spaced months apart which really move these symptoms in a bad way. It’s like my brain is shutting down or my dopamine receptors are going offline one by one in a sick progressive degenerative brain disease of some kind. I am now left as a complete zombie at this point, my brain doesn’t respond to anything. Even at a year off it was still getting worse but it was nothing like this. This also makes the depression in the waves way worse too and are now unbearable when I do go through them as it is impossible to feel any positive emotion.

 

Has anyone else experienced the same? All I hear from people is that acute is supposed to be the worst and things improve gradually over time - I am literally the exact opposite of what withdrawal coaches say happens and I don’t know what to do as I feel less and less “normal” from an emotional/sexual perspective as time passes🙁

[Aaron7]

31 minutes ago, Kyle1234 said:

I’m in month 26 of withdrawal but regardless of whether or not I’m in a wave I am still heavily affected anhedonia/emotional numbness/PSSD. The thing that worries me most is that these specific symptoms have got worse week by week, month by month in intervals for over 2 years straight. I’ll go through a wave and then these issues suddenly get worse and I find a new baseline, go through another wave and repeat. This goes for both physical and mental numbness (my genitals get progressively more numb to erogenous sensation to the point they’re non functional now) and the changes in my emotional and physical state are noticeable every time it happens. I get more numb, more anhedonic, less responsive to external stimulus and my cognition/memory becomes more impaired.

 

The changes that happen every 1-2 weeks are smaller but noticeable, there can also be larger shifts spaced months apart which really move these symptoms in a bad way. It’s like my brain is shutting down or my dopamine receptors are going offline one by one in a sick progressive degenerative brain disease of some kind. I am now left as a complete zombie at this point, my brain doesn’t respond to anything. Even at a year off it was still getting worse but it was nothing like this. This also makes the depression in the waves way worse too and are now unbearable when I do go through them as it is impossible to feel any positive emotion.

 

Has anyone else experienced the same? All I hear from people is that acute is supposed to be the worst and things improve gradually over time - I am literally the exact opposite of what withdrawal coaches say happens and I don’t know what to do as I feel less and less “normal” from an emotional/sexual perspective as time passes🙁

I am the same mate. I have lost all my ability to feel any type of emotion. I have severe anhedonia and I also feel like my dopamine receptors do not work anymore. 
I only took 25mg of sertraline for 2 months and I can’t believe a short duration has caused so much damage.

 

I’m probably gonna start drinking because I don’t give a **** anymore.

[jon1]

42 minutes ago, Kyle1234 said:

I’m in month 26 of withdrawal but regardless of whether or not I’m in a wave I am still heavily affected anhedonia/emotional numbness/PSSD. The thing that worries me most is that these specific symptoms have got worse week by week, month by month in intervals for over 2 years straight. I’ll go through a wave and then these issues suddenly get worse and I find a new baseline, go through another wave and repeat. This goes for both physical and mental numbness (my genitals get progressively more numb to erogenous sensation to the point they’re non functional now) and the changes in my emotional and physical state are noticeable every time it happens. I get more numb, more anhedonic, less responsive to external stimulus and my cognition/memory becomes more impaired.

 

The changes that happen every 1-2 weeks are smaller but noticeable, there can also be larger shifts spaced months apart which really move these symptoms in a bad way. It’s like my brain is shutting down or my dopamine receptors are going offline one by one in a sick progressive degenerative brain disease of some kind. I am now left as a complete zombie at this point, my brain doesn’t respond to anything. Even at a year off it was still getting worse but it was nothing like this. This also makes the depression in the waves way worse too and are now unbearable when I do go through them as it is impossible to feel any positive emotion.

 

Has anyone else experienced the same? All I hear from people is that acute is supposed to be the worst and things improve gradually over time - I am literally the exact opposite of what withdrawal coaches say happens and I don’t know what to do as I feel less and less “normal” from an emotional/sexual perspective as time passes🙁

 

For the first two years, I felt I was getting steadily worse. It felt like new, bizarre symptoms were cropping up that I'd never had before. Sometimes it's hard to believe something new could occur, or get worse, so long after the last dose of a drug. I didn't have any PSSD problems until over 18 months in, so you're not alone. Likewise with anhedonia, which only began for me around 10 months ago. I often feel both emotionally and physically numb.

 

But it just goes to show the huge amount of work the brain needs to do to heal and set things right again.

 

Those withdrawing from alcohol suffer from very, very similar symptoms, and the usual recovery timescale for dopamine receptors to turn to normal after drinking is two years. And that's for a 'natural' substance.

 

While alcohol is very bad, and very damaging to the brain, antidepressants are far more powerful and cause changes in the brain at a far quicker rate, which means, logically, it takes longer to recover. Those recovering from alcohol use often say issues with sexual dysfunction are usually the last thing to return to normal, but they do return to normal.

 

It's also worth noting that anhedonia and lack of interest in sex are both very normal and natural responses by the body when it's under stress. It's why we feel 'blah' for some time when we have a cold, the flu or a virus, or going through a stressful situation.

 

SSRI withdrawal is an immensely stressful situation on steroids, and the body is prioritising what it needs to do to get better. Unfortunately, like when we're sick, our sex lives are way down that list.

 

41 minutes ago, Aaron7 said:

I’m probably gonna start drinking because I don’t give a **** anymore.

 

Please, please don't. I know it's tempting, but it will only make things worse.

 

[Kyle1234]

18 minutes ago, jon1 said:

 

For the first two years, I felt I was getting steadily worse. It felt like new, bizarre symptoms were cropping up that I'd never had before. Sometimes it's hard to believe something new could occur, or get worse, so long after the last dose of a drug. I didn't have any PSSD problems until over 18 months in, so you're not alone. Likewise with anhedonia, which only began for me around 10 months ago. I often feel both emotionally and physically numb.

 

But it just goes to show the huge amount of work the brain needs to do to heal and set things right again.

 

Those withdrawing from alcohol suffer from very, very similar symptoms, and the usual recovery timescale for dopamine receptors to turn to normal after drinking is two years. And that's for a 'natural' substance.

 

While alcohol is very bad, and very damaging to the brain, antidepressants are far more powerful and cause changes in the brain at a far quicker rate, which means, logically, it takes longer to recover. Those recovering from alcohol use often say issues with sexual dysfunction are usually the last thing to return to normal, but they do return to normal.

 

It's also worth noting that anhedonia and lack of interest in sex are both very normal and natural responses by the body when it's under stress. It's why we feel 'blah' for some time when we have a cold, the flu or a virus, or going through a stressful situation.

 

SSRI withdrawal is an immensely stressful situation on steroids, and the body is prioritising what it needs to do to get better. Unfortunately, like when we're sick, our sex lives are way down that list.

 

 

Please, please don't. I know it's tempting, but it will only make things worse.

 

It’s crazy how you can be off for so long and still have new or worsening symptoms this far out isn’t it. I’ve recently developed a load of nerve issues at the 2 year mark and you doubt whether it’s withdrawal this far out but you go to the doctors and they can’t find anything wrong.
 

Could I ask how long you’ve been off? And when you say that for the first 2 years off you noticed things getting worse does that mean you’ve started to see improvements since then? Are there any particular things which have got better? 
 

Your explanation of it all makes sense, and it’s what I’ve heard from coaches and others but it just doesn’t make logical sense when things get worse over time. I guess the shift in symptoms show things are changing but I’d rather it not get worse because you doubt it’ll ever start getting better😅

[Kyle1234]

1 hour ago, Aaron7 said:

I am the same mate. I have lost all my ability to feel any type of emotion. I have severe anhedonia and I also feel like my dopamine receptors do not work anymore. 
I only took 25mg of sertraline for 2 months and I can’t believe a short duration has caused so much damage.

 

I’m probably gonna start drinking because I don’t give a **** anymore.

Yeah I took 50mg Sertraline for 5 weeks initially and it caused me so many issues after being off for 8 months that I went back on because I was told it was symptoms of a new emerging mental health condition, so yes it definitely is the drugs. I wish I knew that all those years ago and didn’t start them again.

[jon1]

18 minutes ago, Kyle1234 said:

It’s crazy how you can be off for so long and still have new or worsening symptoms this far out isn’t it. I’ve recently developed a load of nerve issues at the 2 year mark and you doubt whether it’s withdrawal this far out but you go to the doctors and they can’t find anything wrong.
 

Could I ask how long you’ve been off? And when you say that for the first 2 years off you noticed things getting worse does that mean you’ve started to see improvements since then? Are there any particular things which have got better? 
 

Your explanation of it all makes sense, and it’s what I’ve heard from coaches and others but it just doesn’t make logical sense when things get worse over time. I guess the shift in symptoms show things are changing but I’d rather it not get worse because you doubt it’ll ever start getting better😅

 

it's very crazy! Although it helped me when my therapist explained how the brain works, and that it doesn't heal everything at once, often 'shutting down' things to it does, to test out others. I've learned that so, so many things our body does are regulated by neurotransmitters. Eyesight, digestion, hearing, everything. So while they're in flux, all sorts of weird stuff can happen.

 

I'm 34 months out, so 3 years in January. While this year hasn't been easy at all, and I wouldn't say I've had any windows, I've found there have been occasions where I've felt less bad, and experienced distant glimmers of improvement. Not necessarily in symptoms, but my mood has improved at times.

 

I've had tinnitus in one ear since stopping the drugs, and over the last couple of months I've had a couple of days when it suddenly disappeared completely. So I'm seeing those short, brief little wins as a sign that something, deep down, is healing, however slowly.

 

One thing I've noticed is that it takes me a long time to notice when a symptom has gone away, it's only when it returns that I suddenly realise 'Oh, I used to have this all the time, but haven't for a while'.

 

This last week I've had really, really high agitation and anxiety, but have realised I haven't had it for a long while, when it used to be almost permanent in the early months and years.

 

I'm probably tempting fate by typing this, but my last 'new' symptom was over 6 months ago now, whereas before that something new would crop up regularly. So I'm hoping that might mean things are stabilising a bit. We'll see!

[Kyle1234]

16 hours ago, jon1 said:

 

it's very crazy! Although it helped me when my therapist explained how the brain works, and that it doesn't heal everything at once, often 'shutting down' things to it does, to test out others. I've learned that so, so many things our body does are regulated by neurotransmitters. Eyesight, digestion, hearing, everything. So while they're in flux, all sorts of weird stuff can happen.

 

I'm 34 months out, so 3 years in January. While this year hasn't been easy at all, and I wouldn't say I've had any windows, I've found there have been occasions where I've felt less bad, and experienced distant glimmers of improvement. Not necessarily in symptoms, but my mood has improved at times.

 

I've had tinnitus in one ear since stopping the drugs, and over the last couple of months I've had a couple of days when it suddenly disappeared completely. So I'm seeing those short, brief little wins as a sign that something, deep down, is healing, however slowly.

 

One thing I've noticed is that it takes me a long time to notice when a symptom has gone away, it's only when it returns that I suddenly realise 'Oh, I used to have this all the time, but haven't for a while'.

 

This last week I've had really, really high agitation and anxiety, but have realised I haven't had it for a long while, when it used to be almost permanent in the early months and years.

 

I'm probably tempting fate by typing this, but my last 'new' symptom was over 6 months ago now, whereas before that something new would crop up regularly. So I'm hoping that might mean things are stabilising a bit. We'll see!

 

That’s great you’ve got an understanding therapist, are they quite knowledgeable about withdrawal injuries? I wish it just made a more logical path like any other injury in that it just got gradually better. I genuinely can’t believe how much damage a prescription drug can and has done. 
 

Yes I have had similar, albeit those were much earlier on in withdrawal. During my first year I had a few moments where my vision became clearer, my brains capacity to process my senses increased, I could hear sounds much more clearly, I could smell things again and it would bring back old memories, I could listen to an old song and remember how I felt before the meds etc. but they were few and far between and gradually got less intense and then finally stopped after about a year off, no windows since and just more zombified. I’m hoping that if I stableise it can start to reverse. 

 

I guess it’s a good sign you’ve not had any new symptoms in a while, hopefully that means the remaining ones can clear up soon for your sake! By the way, when you say your PSSD symptoms didn’t start until 18 months out could I ask what symtoms came on? I have the whole gamut of physical and emotional issues with that side of thing and they just get worse (numbness, dysfunction, nerve pain, atrophy, asexuality etc.)

[jon1]

3 hours ago, Kyle1234 said:

That’s great you’ve got an understanding therapist, are they quite knowledgeable about withdrawal injuries? I wish it just made a more logical path like any other injury in that it just got gradually better. I genuinely can’t believe how much damage a prescription drug can and has done. 

 

She's been great. She knew a bit about SSRI withdrawal, but not much in detail. But since I first spoke to her she's done loads of research, and spoken to other therapists about it, and has become quite knowledgable.

 

With regards to the unpredictable healing process, basically, that's down to the brain and body simply not knowing what it needs to do.

 

When it's dealing with an illness, or withdrawal from natural substances (even alcohol to some extent), the brain has thousands of years of adaptation and evolution to draw from, so it instinctively knows how to heal as quickly and efficiently as possible.

 

But SSRIs are a completely new, powerful synthetic unnatural substance that the brain has absolutely no idea how to deal with. The drugs cause huge changes to the balance of neurotransmitters in a very short space of time.

 

Because of that, the only way the brain can heal is through trial and error, testing things out, occasionally getting things wrong, and temporarily throwing things even more out of whack. Sometimes it has to reverse changes it's made and start again. It's literally learning as it goes along.

 

3 hours ago, Kyle1234 said:

Yes I have had similar, albeit those were much earlier on in withdrawal. During my first year I had a few moments where my vision became clearer, my brains capacity to process my senses increased, I could hear sounds much more clearly, I could smell things again and it would bring back old memories, I could listen to an old song and remember how I felt before the meds etc. but they were few and far between and gradually got less intense and then finally stopped after about a year off, no windows since and just more zombified. I’m hoping that if I stableise it can start to reverse. 

 

I absolutely think my second year was worse than my first.

 

I'd liken it to an aeroplane running out of fuel. It can coast along through the air for some time before starting to lose altitude.

 

It's the same when we stop SSRIs. I was suffering from plenty of withdrawal symptoms, but it was only when I reached the 5-6 month mark that things really started to go downhill. It's like there's a time period where the knock-on effects of stopping the drugs begin, rather than starting immediately.

 

I have read that a lot of prolonged recovery symptoms are down to 'downstream' neurotransmitter changes. So the brain may spend the first few months in withdrawal regulating serotonin back to normal levels, but in the process throws dopamine out of balance, which then triggers changes in another neurotransmitter. There are hundreds of neurotransmitters in our brains, and we still don't know what most of them do. There's no way the drug companies can know how they are all affected by SSRIs. They're really not that 'selective' at all.

 

3 hours ago, Kyle1234 said:

By the way, when you say your PSSD symptoms didn’t start until 18 months out could I ask what symtoms came on? I have the whole gamut of physical and emotional issues with that side of thing and they just get worse (numbness, dysfunction, nerve pain, atrophy, asexuality etc.)

 

I already had a complete lack of enthusiasm, but at around 18 months, I started having issues with ED and numbness which hadn't been noticeable before.

 

 

[Kyle1234]

22 hours ago, jon1 said:

 

She's been great. She knew a bit about SSRI withdrawal, but not much in detail. But since I first spoke to her she's done loads of research, and spoken to other therapists about it, and has become quite knowledgable.

 

With regards to the unpredictable healing process, basically, that's down to the brain and body simply not knowing what it needs to do.

 

When it's dealing with an illness, or withdrawal from natural substances (even alcohol to some extent), the brain has thousands of years of adaptation and evolution to draw from, so it instinctively knows how to heal as quickly and efficiently as possible.

 

But SSRIs are a completely new, powerful synthetic unnatural substance that the brain has absolutely no idea how to deal with. The drugs cause huge changes to the balance of neurotransmitters in a very short space of time.

 

Because of that, the only way the brain can heal is through trial and error, testing things out, occasionally getting things wrong, and temporarily throwing things even more out of whack. Sometimes it has to reverse changes it's made and start again. It's literally learning as it goes along.

 

 

I absolutely think my second year was worse than my first.

 

I'd liken it to an aeroplane running out of fuel. It can coast along through the air for some time before starting to lose altitude.

 

It's the same when we stop SSRIs. I was suffering from plenty of withdrawal symptoms, but it was only when I reached the 5-6 month mark that things really started to go downhill. It's like there's a time period where the knock-on effects of stopping the drugs begin, rather than starting immediately.

 

I have read that a lot of prolonged recovery symptoms are down to 'downstream' neurotransmitter changes. So the brain may spend the first few months in withdrawal regulating serotonin back to normal levels, but in the process throws dopamine out of balance, which then triggers changes in another neurotransmitter. There are hundreds of neurotransmitters in our brains, and we still don't know what most of them do. There's no way the drug companies can know how they are all affected by SSRIs. They're really not that 'selective' at all.

 

 

I already had a complete lack of enthusiasm, but at around 18 months, I started having issues with ED and numbness which hadn't been noticeable before.

 

 

That’s so good that they’ve taken the time to learn more about it to help you through it. I should probably also look for someone but find a lot of people dismiss the idea of withdrawal especially this far out. Even when I went to the opticians about my eyesight I mentioned that it stems from withdrawal issues and when she asked how long since I last took it, at the time it was about 18 months and she said I doubt that it’s to do with that now. Just goes to show the level of ignorance from people who don’t understand about the effects of the medication, especially those outside of this space who think they’re safe and effective.

 

I’ve heard about that theory regarding downstream neurotransmitter changes which spawn new or worsening symptoms so far off and it makes sense. Had I known that was the reason for the evolving symptoms the first time I stopped I wouldn’t have ended up back on. Years ago I was on for just 5 weeks, then 3 months after stopping I developed severe nerve issues, PSSD etc. obviously nothing compared to what I’m going through now but at the time it was extremely concerning and a huge change from my baseline - went to the doctors and they just said it’s somatic symptoms to do with the progression of a new anxiety disorder which I then believed and that ended up causing pretty severe kindling when I reinstated at double the dose in line with their advice.

 

This time my timeline is pretty similar to yours, first few months were just a build up of new symptoms until around the 5-6 month mark where I was in hell (it didn’t help that they put me on diazepam and ripped me off that too!). 

 

Yes, I wish I knew what I knew now about how these drugs were first tested and issued, the lack of any real evidence of efficacy and safety, the amount that’s been hidden and covered up by pharma companies, or even just the fact that they are capable of changing your brain to such a degree that they can do such damage. I had unwavering trust in the medical system prior to all of this. I thought oh well these drugs have been on the market for decades so the level of scientific testing and understanding of these medications must be extremely high, but unfortunately not. Had I known I would have stayed well clear.

[jon1]

51 minutes ago, Kyle1234 said:

That’s so good that they’ve taken the time to learn more about it to help you through it. I should probably also look for someone but find a lot of people dismiss the idea of withdrawal especially this far out. Even when I went to the opticians about my eyesight I mentioned that it stems from withdrawal issues and when she asked how long since I last took it, at the time it was about 18 months and she said I doubt that it’s to do with that now. Just goes to show the level of ignorance from people who don’t understand about the effects of the medication, especially those outside of this space who think they’re safe and effective.

 

I’ve heard about that theory regarding downstream neurotransmitter changes which spawn new or worsening symptoms so far off and it makes sense. Had I known that was the reason for the evolving symptoms the first time I stopped I wouldn’t have ended up back on. Years ago I was on for just 5 weeks, then 3 months after stopping I developed severe nerve issues, PSSD etc. obviously nothing compared to what I’m going through now but at the time it was extremely concerning and a huge change from my baseline - went to the doctors and they just said it’s somatic symptoms to do with the progression of a new anxiety disorder which I then believed and that ended up causing pretty severe kindling when I reinstated at double the dose in line with their advice.

 

This time my timeline is pretty similar to yours, first few months were just a build up of new symptoms until around the 5-6 month mark where I was in hell (it didn’t help that they put me on diazepam and ripped me off that too!). 

 

Yes, I wish I knew what I knew now about how these drugs were first tested and issued, the lack of any real evidence of efficacy and safety, the amount that’s been hidden and covered up by pharma companies, or even just the fact that they are capable of changing your brain to such a degree that they can do such damage. I had unwavering trust in the medical system prior to all of this. I thought oh well these drugs have been on the market for decades so the level of scientific testing and understanding of these medications must be extremely high, but unfortunately not. Had I known I would have stayed well clear.

 

Gosh, yes, our stories are quite similar!

 

I visited the optician too. I explained my situation and he was relatively open-minded about it (with a shrug he said 'drugs can cause all sorts of things'), but said my eyesight symptoms were similar to CFS.

 

He wanted me to go to a specialist, but I haven't, as that would have involved being given specialist glasses. I've read several cases where people have done this, but their eyes have improved on their own and the glasses ended up being useless. I still have periods where my eyesight is blurry and my eyes feel very tired, but I'm also getting periods where they are much better. So it's another case where I'm crossing my fingers and toes!

 

The first doctor I went to also said it sounded like CFS, despite my lengthy explanation about what had happened. It did make me wonder how many people who are currently diagnosed with CFS quit taking SSRIs several years ago and a connection between the two hasn't been made.

 

Funnily enough, until you mentioned your history I'd forgotten I'd taken an SSRI way back, nearly 15 years ago, for a very short period, around 6 weeks I think. I spent the following year in and out of doctors' surgeries because I 'didn't feel right'. I've just checked back through old emails to my partner, and the symptoms I described at the time are so similar to what I have now, just on a less severe scale. After about a year I felt fine again.

 

I can't believe I'd forgotten all that happened.