BaccatePlayer: Immediate adverse reaction to sertraline

[mariamisery]

 

Hope you feel better soon! Miss your post of hope and healing! You will get through this soon. Your body is healing. Sending a hug and plenty of hope.😊

[mariamisery]

@Dahlia50 How are you doing? You are a very strong woman!!!

[Dahlia50]

@mariamisery Thanks for asking!

Sounds like things are getting a little better for you. Hope so. Luckily you didn't take it for so long.
I try to be strong but sometimes wonder if it's enough. Sometimes I'm scared. Unfortunately not better, almost worse. Feels like the waves are breaking me. But have no choice, have to fight on.

Hug 💕🌷

[Catwoman73]

How are you @BaccatePlayer?  Doing any better these days?  Thinking of you...

[mariamisery]

I am better but have not arrived.  Please don't be fearful.  When fear comes do your best to be positive.  I know when suffering this feels impossible to do. Your body wants to know that you trust it to heal. Love ❤️ and hugs! You got this@

[Dahlia50]

@mariamisery Thank you, love ’n hugs ❤️

 

@BaccatePlayer Thinking of you 🩵

[mariamisery]

@BaccatePlayer You are on my mind. Hope you are getting better. Sending lots of hope and hugs.😊

[BaccatePlayer]

On 6/8/2024 at 9:44 PM, Gonzo said:

That's extremely valuable info man. Why do you think you felt/were like that/had those reactions?

Fear of commitment and being stuck in unpleasant bodily sensations. My younger self felt absolutely trapped by chores like attending school, so I guess it's a somatic response to the work environment.

On 6/8/2024 at 11:49 PM, Bren711 said:

I totally get you. I definitely feel like my baseline worsened after I got sick (really struggling too). I really do think these are pretty deep troughs/waves that we are healing from right now. Have you had any windows recently? 

Also good luck with the Dr. appointment! Hopefully they will be able to offer some helpful advice/answers.

No window at all. The appointment was terrible. The doctor kept scolding my mom for being overprotective and kept blaming me for not taking my meds on my own. When people say they're much better after 15 months and their symptoms are less and less intense, I'm actually panicking. I'm not sure why people portray it as some reassurance when it's a much worse prognosis than what my scared mind dreads.

[Gonzo]

Fear of commitment can be fear of engulfment, of losing your freedom and being oppressed, no wonder that's the case considering that you already mentioned your doc scolding your mom for being overprotective, and before that you mentioned high standards coming from your parents IIRC, so you could also be experiencing a fear of being a failure due to the dread of not being able to meet those same standards so to be rejected, punished, abandoned, etc. It seems like you had kind of authoritarian parents. Our moral identities (superego) are created through socialization, and they can be extreme, excruciating, if we experienced lots of oppression specially in childhood.

 

Those damn psychiatrists always telling people what to do and how to live their lives, they're like priests but worse because they have authority to force their freaking drugs to people. Bastards.

 

I'm sorry things didn't improve for you @BaccatePlayer.

 

I personally, and it's my opinion but I strongly suggest it nonetheless, I think you should consider that withdrawal brought back old and painful issues, it's not rare.

 

Be strong.

[BaccatePlayer]

On 6/11/2024 at 8:54 PM, Catina7 said:

Just stopping by to say hello and that I hope you're hanging in there okay today.  ❤️ 

I appreciate that, but I'm doing so unwell that I can't even type much lately. I'm still in the acute phase. The dissociations are so heavy that I'm literally stuck in panic about my sanity. At times, I am completely out of touch with any sense of balance and struggle to feel like I recognize my people. I experience very violent, intrusive thoughts and feel like I'm in another dimension, suddenly going from 0 to maximum intensity. I need to relearn what my life is every morning because sleep puts me into an extreme version of this dissociated mood. The physical symptoms are still strong, and I can't manage it all by myself when I zone out. Week by week, the severity remains unbearable despite being busy all the time. It goes from one set of symptoms to another, but it's not getting better. So many things are dysregulated at once that I can't even believe I'm not crazy in the moment.

 

On 6/14/2024 at 6:59 AM, itsalyssadood said:

Leaving some healing love on your page ❤️‍🩹❤️‍🩹❤️‍🩹

Thank you, Alyssa! I'm completely feeling a lack of control and drained by everything. What would normally be a difficult wave is now a window for me. I don't know why it still escalates so much now that I'm close to finishing the seventh month, but I literally cannot imagine it getting any worse than this. Balance, panic, ear pressure, digestion, urination—everything is shaking inside. It's so fast and so loud that I wouldn't even be able to call it symptoms. It's all literally collapsing, and I can't even recognize what I think or feel because there is simply no space for that in this mess.

[itsalyssadood]

1 hour ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Thank you, Alyssa! I'm completely feeling a lack of control and drained by everything. What would normally be a difficult wave is now a window for me. I don't know why it still escalates so much now that I'm close to finishing the seventh month, but I literally cannot imagine it getting any worse than this. Balance, panic, ear pressure, digestion, urination—everything is shaking inside. It's so fast and so loud that I wouldn't even be able to call it symptoms. It's all literally collapsing, and I can't even recognize what I think or feel because there is simply no space for that in this mess.

Keep hanging on @BaccatePlayer  you will heal soon. I just know it. You might not have true windows and that makes me think you are the one who will turn a corner fast after all your suffering.  Your body and brain have been working super hard on your healing! One day you’ll look back at all this and see how far you’ve come.  Hold on, your miracle is coming ♥️

[BaccatePlayer]

On 6/14/2024 at 10:58 AM, Sonia009 said:

@BaccatePlayerHi, I just read your reply on my thread and I'm so sorry you are still suffering. I wish I could offer words of comfort but you seem to be going through symptoms like no other. Just want you to know that I think about you and hope you come out of this horrible phase soon. Best wishes.😊🙏

Hello Sonia! I appreciate your concerns, but I'm closer to giving up than getting better. My baseline is not improving yet. I wasn't on the forum because of how bad it is now and because there isn't much it can help me with. Checking the topics about symptoms shows very few solutions. I know these explanations, but nobody gives much advice there besides assuring that it gets better. Still, as you scroll through, you see so many users being unwell even years after coming off meds, so it is not only unhelpful but potentially triggering. I'm probably handling it the best I can. Even if we hang on by a thread, that's still our decision. That's still something and shows that we are alive and sane. It's the awareness that we know what it is that frees us. No external events cause that. If the brain decided to run a specific operation today, it would happen either way and end without our participation. The strategy of non-engagement response is what Jenn Swan teaches and is consistent with what others suggest too. We're not ill, and these aren't our real experiences. As getofflex said, 'it's just a harmless noise in the background.' I really hope my baseline drops to a manageable level within the next 4 weeks. Seriously, how far and for how long can it go? Depression and anxiety really aren't a big deal compared to this.

On 6/14/2024 at 3:55 PM, mariamisery said:

Hope you feel better soon! Miss your post of hope and healing! You will get through this soon. Your body is healing. Sending a hug and plenty of hope.😊

I miss my hope too. The first three months of my immediate adverse reactions were unbearable before I even started having longer windows. Now, I'm not yet there with protracted withdrawal, and there's no guarantee that once I survive the first two weeks of July, it's going to improve in a similar fashion. Still no windows, and instability from various sources is probably stacking up, and I can't use coping strategies yet. I'm not as young as my sister, so I can't navigate through electronics too well; therefore, I'm mostly watching the Euros on TV. Thank you, angel. Hope you're in a better place.

[BaccatePlayer]

On 6/14/2024 at 7:37 PM, Catwoman73 said:

How are you @BaccatePlayer?  Doing any better these days?  Thinking of you...

It's likely the peak of the acute phase for me. No windows, just rolling through unbearable and weird symptoms day by day. I'm quite discouraged by accepting that this is PAWS in play, simply because now my wishful bubble of it coming to an end has burst into the realization that it can very well last twice, if not three times or more, as long as it already has. My functioning stays as it was, but that's probably even more alienating. It's way too intense to distract myself, but at least I have wonderful people like you here.

 

On 6/14/2024 at 9:25 PM, Dahlia50 said:

@BaccatePlayer Thinking of you 🩵

Hug. Thinking of you too, especially since you're among the few angels that are so close to my heart yet not on our Facebook group. I couldn't be on the forum lately, but I always pray for you. Holding onto hope because I did everything right: I sleep and eat well, avoid stress and meds, yet it still reaches such extremes that I really wonder where I had been during that wave. The memories of what I was talking about or doing feel so weak under what the symptoms forced me to go through. Almost as if the real world were fiction, so distant that I had to force myself not to forget about its existence.

[Sonia009]

1 hour ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Hello Sonia! I appreciate your concerns, but I'm closer to giving up than getting better. My baseline is not improving yet. I wasn't on the forum because of how bad it is now and because there isn't much it can help me with. Checking the topics about symptoms shows very few solutions. I know these explanations, but nobody gives much advice there besides assuring that it gets better. Still, as you scroll through, you see so many users being unwell even years after coming off meds, so it is not only unhelpful but potentially triggering. I'm probably handling it the best I can. Even if we hang on by a thread, that's still our decision. That's still something and shows that we are alive and sane. It's the awareness that we know what it is that frees us. No external events cause that. If the brain decided to run a specific operation today, it would happen either way and end without our participation. The strategy of non-engagement response is what Jenn Swan teaches and is consistent with what others suggest too. We're not ill, and these aren't our real experiences. As getofflex said, 'it's just a harmless noise in the background.' I really hope my baseline drops to a manageable level within the next 4 weeks. Seriously, how far and for how long can it go? Depression and anxiety really aren't a big deal compared to this.

I miss my hope too. The first three months of my immediate adverse reactions were unbearable before I even started having longer windows. Now, I'm not yet there with protracted withdrawal, and there's no guarantee that once I survive the first two weeks of July, it's going to improve in a similar fashion. Still no windows, and instability from various sources is probably stacking up, and I can't use coping strategies yet. I'm not as young as my sister, so I can't navigate through electronics too well; therefore, I'm mostly watching the Euros on TV. Thank you, angel. Hope you're in a better place.

@BaccatePlayer Hi, so sorry you are still suffering, it must be exhausting. I understand your reasoning for not posting, it can be daunting reading some of the stories here, they bring tears to my eyes. Everyone has their own problems, some I can relate to and others, like yours, are unimaginable.  I hadn't heard of Jenny Swann but have just watched one of her videos and she has suffered greatly from benzo and supplements withdrawal. She spoke about strengthening the cns - proper diet, no sugar, alcohol, processed foods, caffeine etc but about having the mindset to realise this will not bring instant relief but rather knowing they will benefit her in the long run, also meditation, light exercise, going outdoors, vague nerve exercises etc. Very interesting, I think I will watch more of her videos. I can understand how you could find help/support from listening to her talk. She's looking good now, not out of the woods, but I think her acceptance of her experience is helping her get through her withdrawal but she also realises she will probably be a different person at the end of it. We don't know how long it will take to heal but all we can do is look after ourselves as Jenny Swann mentions above and do the best for ourselves each day. She believes we can all heal. 

[BaccatePlayer]

On 6/17/2024 at 3:46 PM, mariamisery said:

@BaccatePlayer You are on my mind. Hope you are getting better. Sending lots of hope and hugs.😊

Thinking about you too, dear. I guess there are still ways it could go worse, so I'm glad that at least I don't hallucinate, I don't have sexual dysfunctions, complete insomnia, or the necessity to stay bedridden. Many people also complain about mood, depression, or emotional numbness, which is not the case for me. It's just that days are passing, and I'm not yet feeling like I can handle this without it stripping me of control and completely throwing off my life at some points. Hug.

 

4 hours ago, Gonzo said:

Fear of commitment can be fear of engulfment, of losing your freedom and being oppressed, no wonder that's the case considering that you already mentioned your doc scolding your mom for being overprotective, and before that you mentioned high standards coming from your parents IIRC, so you could also be experiencing a fear of being a failure due to the dread of not being able to meet those same standards so to be rejected, punished, abandoned, etc. It seems like you had kind of authoritarian parents. Our moral identities (superego) are created through socialization, and they can be extreme, excruciating, if we experienced lots of oppression specially in childhood.

 

Those damn psychiatrists always telling people what to do and how to live their lives, they're like priests but worse because they have authority to force their freaking drugs to people. Bastards.

 

I'm sorry things didn't improve for you @BaccatePlayer.

 

I personally, and it's my opinion but I strongly suggest it nonetheless, I think you should consider that withdrawal brought back old and painful issues, it's not rare.

 

Be strong.

I even remember being in a car and thinking about mentioning the fear of engulfment in this comment too. Yes, it's definitely an extension of the natural reaction to being ensnared. I always knew my superego was very powerful and that I succumbed to identification with the aggressor and introjection of an internal persecutor under pressure. My parents, especially my dad, hold very high and strict standards, which my sister already sees through. She sees my example and suspects it will be better to quickly start adult life outside the family house. I was too scared. It was as if something inside me was afraid of questioning God (which translated to my human father too), and I struggled to even give my rebellion a chance since my internal sense of guilt was already tormenting me before I even acted on it. We definitely got the impression that this doctor was angry at me for thinking for myself. Almost like invalidating my judgment because I'm "ill." My mom regrets not asking her if she'd be so eager to send her own child to a psychiatric ward. I wear my old and painful issues on my sleeve. They were never repressed because I can never let go of unresolved tension. Parts of me are surely waiting to get revenge on some people, to prove something, to become my own authority. I don't attribute it to withdrawal; it has been a part of my regular thoughts. Meds didn't mask them, and now I'm still facing these problems. I actually wonder how some people can bury their problems under substances, even alcohol or tobacco. This never worked for me. I even checked some chats with my friends when I was on various meds, and I was in a constant state of analyzing my current and past upsets all the time. I wasn't necessarily sad, but I just wanted a completely unbreakable solution to my failures. Bouncing between extremes, like how to treat a heartbreak, would push me into thoughts like never date again, tell people you're gay or asexual, treat women with coldness and contempt, keep being of service to them, but always show women that you're hiding sadness or whatever tactic that always had it in control, always remained stronger than everything, and could do whatever unaffected. I'm doing what I can to survive now, and I appreciate you having faith in me.

[Gonzo]

I'm sorry you experienced all that, definitely not rare for people that are stuck in the MH system or went through it. These awful psychiatrists have such an ego and hate to be questioned, they really feel they're some kind of god and everyone should be submitting to their authority, specially mentally "ill" people, that they see as possessed basically. They really are horrible, full of ignorance, cold and heartless. What I was trying to say is that adverse reactions to psychiatric drugs and withdrawal because the unstability that they create can bring back or even reinforce these painful feelings, emotions and reactions coming from trauma, and I can see you definitely experienced emotional neglect (which is basically abandonment trauma but at an emotional level). I believe you can heal but I acknowledge it's not an easy road, it's full of ups and downs.

[BaccatePlayer]

3 hours ago, itsalyssadood said:

Keep hanging on @BaccatePlayer  you will heal soon. I just know it. You might not have true windows and that makes me think you are the one who will turn a corner fast after all your suffering.  Your body and brain have been working super hard on your healing! One day you’ll look back at all this and see how far you’ve come.  Hold on, your miracle is coming ♥️

I do believe that. It can change drastically within days. I told myself that I need to get to mid-July before despairing about it not improving, but even though days keep passing, there are always so many of them left. I remember having a raised scar on my ankle, and it looked very severe, but it healed faster and much better than usual. Rapid healing is possible, and my drug history isn't even that complicated; it's just that there were too many cold turkey drops. Trying to remember how it was similar before, I thought there was no improvement, just a change in symptoms until it started getting better, but I may need 3 more weeks now. Thank you so much!

 

1 hour ago, Sonia009 said:

@BaccatePlayer Hi, so sorry you are still suffering, it must be exhausting. I understand your reasoning for not posting, it can be daunting reading some of the stories here, they bring tears to my eyes. Everyone has their own problems, some I can relate to and others, like yours, are unimaginable.  I hadn't heard of Jenny Swann but have just watched one of her videos and she has suffered greatly from benzo and supplements withdrawal. She spoke about strengthening the cns - proper diet, no sugar, alcohol, processed foods, caffeine etc but about having the mindset to realise this will not bring instant relief but rather knowing they will benefit her in the long run, also meditation, light exercise, going outdoors, vague nerve exercises etc. Very interesting, I think I will watch more of her videos. I can understand how you could find help/support from listening to her talk. She's looking good now, not out of the woods, but I think her acceptance of her experience is helping her get through her withdrawal but she also realises she will probably be a different person at the end of it. We don't know how long it will take to heal but all we can do is look after ourselves as Jenny Swann mentions above and do the best for ourselves each day. She believes we can all heal. 

Even knowing all the tricks that waves play on us, I sometimes can't shake myself off these spells. Especially as day by day, the sober perspective gets lost and I may not even notice. I'm already half a year clean, but I have gone through many cold turkey drops, so now I probably have the worst of the worst that can happen in this regard. I was fostering health-promoting habits, and it probably comes down to overstressing myself with too much activity, but since I can't even do that anymore, my routines are really on point. I think we can all recover, or at least it will get much better with time for everyone. She highlights that where we are is a 'meantime.' It's not where we'll be forever, and there's no point in looking back. I trust that my body knows what it's doing and won't let me go crazy for real. I wanted to absorb more of my surroundings, not produce thoughts on my own because they're still vulnerable to triggers. I really think that experiencing all these symptoms raw and alone is additional stress, so passing hours in a way that skips our awareness of it at least partially helps. Sleeping, listening to podcasts, or even having to focus on finishing a task requiring precision. Thank you for being a cherubic listener.

[Sonia009]

@BaccatePlayer I too trust that your body knows what it is doing and you're not going to go crazy, you are going to heal, take each day as it comes, look after yourself and very soon all these feelings will be history.  😊

[Catwoman73]

2 hours ago, BaccatePlayer said:

It's likely the peak of the acute phase for me. No windows, just rolling through unbearable and weird symptoms day by day. I'm quite discouraged by accepting that this is PAWS in play, simply because now my wishful bubble of it coming to an end has burst into the realization that it can very well last twice, if not three times or more, as long as it already has. My functioning stays as it was, but that's probably even more alienating. It's way too intense to distract myself, but at least I have wonderful people like you here.

 

Hug. Thinking of you too, especially since you're among the few angels that are so close to my heart yet not on our Facebook group. I couldn't be on the forum lately, but I always pray for you. Holding onto hope because I did everything right: I sleep and eat well, avoid stress and meds, yet it still reaches such extremes that I really wonder where I had been during that wave. The memories of what I was talking about or doing feel so weak under what the symptoms forced me to go through. Almost as if the real world were fiction, so distant that I had to force myself not to forget about its existence.

Oh no, so sorry to hear you're still struggling so much.  I so wish there was more we could do when things get this bad, but time and patience is all we have.  You're doing everything right... I have to believe the windows are coming.  Just hang in there- we're here for you 100%, anytime you need us!  ❤️‍🩹

[BaccatePlayer]

13 hours ago, Gonzo said:

I'm sorry you experienced all that, definitely not rare for people that are stuck in the MH system or went through it. These awful psychiatrists have such an ego and hate to be questioned, they really feel they're some kind of god and everyone should be submitting to their authority, specially mentally "ill" people, that they see as possessed basically. They really are horrible, full of ignorance, cold and heartless. What I was trying to say is that adverse reactions to psychiatric drugs and withdrawal because the unstability that they create can bring back or even reinforce these painful feelings, emotions and reactions coming from trauma, and I can see you definitely experienced emotional neglect (which is basically abandonment trauma but at an emotional level). I believe you can heal but I acknowledge it's not an easy road, it's full of ups and downs.

Definitely, whatever I have to deal with now, my activated mind will view in a more deterministic tandem. Extreme reactions as if my life depended on it because all our organism really cares about is survival. Now that it doesn't feel safe, any negativity is zoomed in. I wasn't aware of late-onset withdrawals, so it's frustrating to see I need to view my healing as starting all over again, but around mid-August, my progress will start counting days 120 upwards again. Healing is happening with me abstaining from these toxic drugs, and I'm not allowing myself to get fooled by anxiety that wants me to believe I'm getting worse. It's possible that the recovery just "stacks up", and waves from damage from various meds simply add up, so when there's, for instance, a system responsible for panic attacks, it heals simultaneously with the one structured around depersonalization, making it feel like it's way worse than if it happened one by one. I trust my own brain; it knows what it's doing and definitely doesn't try to kill me. People who introspect a lot, like I do, may have it more difficult because we tend to go through all our experiences right away, trying to think them through, which makes our mind go through that stress again and again. There's a passage from Millon's book that resonates with my situation, but for some reason, mental health doctors seem to be unaware of this case:

 

"Repeated failures and humiliations subvert
the paranoid’s level of ‘‘assured’’ beliefs. No
longer can he retain the sense of a confident and
rigid delusional system. It has been degraded
and undermined. Now the patient disintegrates
and regresses into a diffused and demoralized
sense of self, no longer is he or she able to express
coherent ideas and simulate self-assured behaviors.
The paraphrenic level has now taken hold.

[...]

The contrast in the clinical picture between
the defective-paranoid and decompensated paraphrenic
patterns is more striking than that
found between other defective patterns and
their decompensated counterparts. Although the
transition is a gradual one, spotted along the
waywith several ‘‘syndromal episodes,’’ the final
decompensated state appears to reflect a major
transformation. Actually, this is not the case;
certain fundamental changes have taken place,
of course, but superficial appearances tend to
accentuate them.

[...]

The air of independence and self-assertion
that characterizes so many paranoid personalities
is sharply deflated when they succumb to
the fully decompensated state. In contrast to
schizotypals and borderlines, who have always
appeared more or less either weak or vacillating,
paranoids have fostered the image of being
cocky, self-assured, willful, and dominant; they
fall a far distance when they finally topple, and
the contrast is quite marked.

[...]

They still
are mistrustful and suspicious, ever fearful that
those on whom they now must depend for survival
will be deceitful or injurious. Through the
haze of disorganized thought processes, they
still distort objective reality to fit their delusional
‘‘pseudo-community.’’ Not only are paraphrenics
estranged from others and therefore unable to
share a common social perspective, but they continue
the habit of actively resisting the other
person’s viewpoint. And despite the general
collapse of their coping strategy, they persist,
however feebly, in the struggle to retain independence
and to keep intact the remnants of a
shattered self-image.
These traces of the paraphrenic’s past assertiveness
and self-assurance are submerged, however,
in the ineffectualities and confusions of
severe decompensation. Where self-determination
and independence had characterized
earlier behavior, we now observe a pervasive
invalidism and dependence on others, an
inability to assume responsibility for even the
most mundane tasks of self-care and survival.
Although cognitive processes were always distorted,
delusional and narrow in focus, they possessed
intrinsic order and logic to them; now they
are fragmented, disjunctive, and irrational. Previously,
ideas were conveyed in a self-confident
and often articulate manner; they now tend to
be stated with hesitation and doubt; remarks
frequently are tangential, expressed in incoherent
phrases or scattered in disjointed flights
of fancy. Emotions still retain their quality of
veiled hostility but the ‘‘fight’’ is lacking; words
of anger seem devoid of feeling and the spark
of intense resentment has burned out. Behavior,
once dominant, intimidating, or contemptuous,
has become aversive, secretive, and bizarre. The
whole complex of earlier paranoid self-assurance
and social belligerence has disintegrated, leaving
an inner vacancy, a fearful hesitation, and a
fragmented shadow of the former being.
The role of invalidism in these patients has
been hard for them to accept. Their mistrust
of others and their lifelong orientation of
hard-boiled self-determination make it difficult
to accept the weakness and dependence that
the role of hospital patient imposes on them.

But they have had no choice; their behavior has
been grossly disturbing, impossible to tolerate
in normal social life. For a few, institutional
life is a sanctuary; illness may be a convenient
rationalization to account for their repeated
failures.

[...]

Quite typically, these decompensating paranoids
spend endless hours ruminating over
memories of a better yesteryear, such as when
they experienced realistic adulation and encouragement
in childhood. Many revert to childlike
behaviors and attitudes, as if hoping that these
reversionswill revive the goodwill andcommendation
of the past. Most no longer act haughty
and arrogant; on the contrary, they seem to accept
their helpless invalidism and to bask in the care
that others provide them; this transformation to
a passive receptive role often is baffling to those
who previously knew them. Strange as these
behaviors may seem, they are not inconsistent
with the defectively structured narcissist’s former
exploitive strategy; moreover, the return to
a role inwhich they benignly accept the goodwill
of othersmaybe an unconscious attempt to resurrect
the rewards they experienced in childhood".

 

12 hours ago, Sonia009 said:

@BaccatePlayer I too trust that your body knows what it is doing and you're not going to go crazy, you are going to heal, take each day as it comes, look after yourself and very soon all these feelings will be history.  😊

Still having these mental blackouts. I think these are panic attacks, but in the form of doom thoughts about being stuck in another dimension, completely forgetting about the real world. I used to experience that in the past, but it wasn't so intense, and I got over it quicker. Major headaches today too. When it comes all of a sudden, during dinner or a walk, I can't even register it. I'm so afraid of just letting myself get lost in thoughts now. Huge CNS crash; it trades one set of 10/10 intensity symptoms for another, but it eventually stopped being this severe once, so hopefully it will again. I'm using small chunks of time, like 2 weeks, to make it more achievable. I know healing will happen, but I guess the acute phase can just stay 10/10 bad for a while before it starts catching some stability. I remember moderators saying, "give it a solid 6 months" to those who were tapering. I'm not tapering, but I can say I survived half a year on an unchanged med routine. Not there yet to say "I came so far" though.

[BaccatePlayer]

On 6/21/2024 at 12:51 AM, Catwoman73 said:

Oh no, so sorry to hear you're still struggling so much.  I so wish there was more we could do when things get this bad, but time and patience is all we have.  You're doing everything right... I have to believe the windows are coming.  Just hang in there- we're here for you 100%, anytime you need us!  ❤️‍🩹

To be fair, I think something is wrong. In mid-April, I had an unbearable CNS crash, likely developing protracted withdrawal on top of an already unstable CNS from an adverse reaction. May was horrible; I felt it was getting worse and worse. Right now, according to my notes, June is even worse than that. Absolutely unbearable. I don't know what to do. I try to resist thinking, "What if there's still some time on the decline and it'll be even worse than this?" but I'm completely burdened now. Anxiety non-stop, stomach tensed, unbelievable nausea, panic attacks day by day, dissociations worse than ever, and there's always some symptom that's reaching maximum intensity. Like today, I was so faint I couldn't stand seconds of it. No joke, this is as bad as the acute phase from the adverse reaction, except now I'm barely hanging on even after 72 days. I can't even name some of these symptoms; coping doesn't work, and I can't live like this any longer. I don't even think about recovery now; I don't read stories of other users. But how am I supposed to even recompose myself? Maybe even though I had a peak panic attack today, my system is still building up another one for tomorrow? Seriously, my baseline is still dropping, and I'm losing strength to even stay upright...

[Dahlia50]

@BaccatePlayer  Your stages have been similar to mine. Think that I’m a little ahead of you (8 months off, have taken zoloft longer).

I had a bad adverse reaction. Later CNS crash 3-4 months off. Then worse and worse. Acute and totally unbearable. Hell. Maximum fainting intensity. 5-6 months off I lost noting symptoms and copying didn't work at all. Can barely read storys here. Extreme agitation/akathisia. Felt almost unconscious at times. Stopped thinking just closing my eyes in bed, hardly remember anything. 

I also got worse from my last reinstatement attempt, but maybe the most hysterical intensity subsided a tiny bit, sleep is the only thing that is better. I still get mashed by several pressure waves every day, very weak.

You're so bad that you can't bear to be strong, but you are very strong and intelligent.

Hang in there angel.

I'm not in a place yet that I can say it's getting better. But I really know how indescribably hard it is.

We have to get through this.
Thinking of you.
Hug ❤️

[mariamisery]

 For all of us who are battling.  The lady on Angie Peacock: said keep going, do whatever you got to do to get through it. Have enough faith to see you are getting better and know there is life on the other side. No matter how  bad we feel at this moment; it will all end.

[BaccatePlayer]

@getofflex Sorry for tagging, but this is both related to tapering and urgent. I've been on levothyroxine even before withdrawal, but suddenly I just keep feeling worse and worse, having frequent panic attacks and wondering if levothyroxine could be contributing. I feel insanely faint, almost to the point of pain, rotten inside, and generally unwell in a very holistic way. Lately, I've been extremely triggered by thoughts about levothyroxine causing it, so my question is: should I consider that, or am I just panicking? The way I feel is somewhat tied to that taste in my mouth after I take levothyroxine normally, but it also peaks at random times. This internal clenching from feeling rotten also comes and goes. I feel unwell after taking it for two days in a row, but I also realize panic can make me feel like that too, even if I keep trying to reason it out.

[BaccatePlayer]

14 hours ago, Dahlia50 said:

@BaccatePlayer  Your stages have been similar to mine. Think that I’m a little ahead of you (8 months off, have taken zoloft longer).

I had a bad adverse reaction. Later CNS crash 3-4 months off. Then worse and worse. Acute and totally unbearable. Hell. Maximum fainting intensity. 5-6 months off I lost noting symptoms and copying didn't work at all. Can barely read storys here. Extreme agitation/akathisia. Felt almost unconscious at times. Stopped thinking just closing my eyes in bed, hardly remember anything. 

I also got worse from my last reinstatement attempt, but maybe the most hysterical intensity subsided a tiny bit, sleep is the only thing that is better. I still get mashed by several pressure waves every day, very weak.

You're so bad that you can't bear to be strong, but you are very strong and intelligent.

Hang in there angel.

I'm not in a place yet that I can say it's getting better. But I really know how indescribably hard it is.

We have to get through this.
Thinking of you.
Hug ❤️

Yes, that's exactly what I'm struggling with. Very alien sensations of faintness that you cannot convince yourself you're not dying from. It's only really by looking around, seeing that you still move your arms and mouth, that hints nothing is wrong. This is how my wave is this week. I think I'm having panic attacks one after another, and then my system replays part of them, making it go from distractible to maximum intensity right away. I'm so lost in all this. I can't even catch my breath after one panic attack because another is already loading. It has affected my digestive system so badly that I'm stuck with that tense stomach, the most poison-like, rotten inside nausea I have ever had, and such high anxiety that I'm literally lost in that paranoid avoidance. I keep reminding myself every day that it passes, yet each morning it starts all over again, and I run to everyone crying that it's so unbearable I can't stand it. Some moments feel like someone is drilling my entire CNS through my eyes, with the panic making it feel like it's really happening forever. I'm afraid that I'm collapsing, that my sight or hearing will go, that I get some intense heat inside that I won't be able to stand. There's so much of this that I can't focus on anything else. When I try to talk to others, I feel even more estranged from myself, as if even my whole body was abandoning my internal concerns. What sort of power is that if it keeps me on edge every day despite so much reassurance I have, not only from others but also from my own habits? I struggled with sleeping, but not to the point of not being able to get 5+ hours of rest. I even panic when I hear my dad taking meds. There's still 2 more weeks left before I finish 7 months, but the intensity is still the same. I may not struggle with PGAD or these head pressures now, but if it's a tradeoff for something equally unbearable, I still call it the acute phase. I'm not going to take benzos, but seriously, I can't stay like this. The only positive is that there is no akathisia, and I can still somehow go to the store or church for the most part. If only these panic attacks would go away, they literally turn any symptom into their most unbearable variant... Hug. Also, forever in my prayers, Dahlia.

 

13 hours ago, mariamisery said:

For all of us who are battling.  The lady on Angie Peacock: said keep going, do whatever you got to do to get through it. Have enough faith to see you are getting better and know there is life on the other side. No matter how  bad we feel at this moment; it will all end.

I'm strongly convinced I'm close to turning the corner, yet I'm still in severe panic. I couldn't sleep and had a nightmare about saving my sister from an abusive boyfriend and being chased by him with an axe. I woke up and wasn't sure if I saw a bug on the floor or not, which caused even more panic about my sanity. Then I took levothyroxine, and a bird hit my window. Scared again, my mind thought I was getting worse from the levothyroxine, and I felt unbearably bad. I couldn't even sleep through it. It had to be a panic attack, and now I'm in meltdown mode the whole day, just like the day before and the day before that. People talk about depression and sad feelings. I feel like I'm under a rock; what sort of feelings could I even have? Thank you for being here. I can't wait until it gets better for you.

[mariamisery]

@BaccatePlayerI feel your strength even through this chat. How you get from one day to the next is helping others to fight. If you are getting through then so can I. What you are experiencing is very hard to deal with.  My heart goes out to you having to endure so much pain. Sending hugs and healing.✨️

[Tulip52]

@BaccatePlayer I looked up levothyroxine and learned that it’s a hormone for thyroid.  Can you get your thyroid levels checked?  Maybe cortisol has pushed your levels out of whack.

 

edited to add:  Also, when we are in extreme stress mode we burn through our electrolytes like a wildfire and then get really dehydrated and our adrenals suffer… causing high anxiety. 
 

adrenal cocktail

 

4 oz orange juice (vitamin c)

 

1/4 tsp cream of tartar (potassium.. found in seasoning isle at grocery store)

 

1/4 tsp Celtic sea salt

 

mix, take on empty stomach 2-3 times a day.  Wait 30 minutes before eating or drinking after.

 

this cocktail helps to balance out our blood sugar, calms the dehydrated adrenals and when our adrenal glands can rest a little from the support our cortisol lowers.

 

 

[Sonia009]

12 hours ago, BaccatePlayer said:

@getofflex Sorry for tagging, but this is both related to tapering and urgent. I've been on levothyroxine even before withdrawal, but suddenly I just keep feeling worse and worse, having frequent panic attacks and wondering if levothyroxine could be contributing. I feel insanely faint, almost to the point of pain, rotten inside, and generally unwell in a very holistic way. Lately, I've been extremely triggered by thoughts about levothyroxine causing it, so my question is: should I consider that, or am I just panicking? The way I feel is somewhat tied to that taste in my mouth after I take levothyroxine normally, but it also peaks at random times. This internal clenching from feeling rotten also comes and goes. I feel unwell after taking it for two days in a row, but I also realize panic can make me feel like that too, even if I keep trying to reason it out.

@BaccatePlayer Hi, have you spoken to your doctor 're this medication and your concerns about it?

If I were you I would get my bloods checked, blood pressure etc just for peace of mind. 😊🙏

[getofflex]

12 hours ago, BaccatePlayer said:

I've been extremely triggered by thoughts about levothyroxine causing it, so my question is: should I consider that, or am I just panicking?

I'm sorry you are feeling so poorly.  In my opinion, I suspect that you are probably in a wave.  You only quit the drugs 7 months ago.  It looks like you stopped them at high doses, as well, so it was basically a cold turkey.  Plus, you have started and stopped and changed many drugs since 2020.  All of these drug changes are cumulative, and can affect people for years.  I'm almost 2 years off Lexapro, and I'm still not 100% recovered from that, although I'm so much better than I was.  

 

I, too, am on levothyroxine. What dose are you on?  I do not see this in your drug signature - please add it with the dose, thank you.  Unless you are on a very high dose of it, it should not affect your nervous system.  

 

What non drug coping strategies are you using to help?  

[getofflex]

Here are some simple methods for helping with panic.  Please do make use of these, they can help a lot.  

 

video: Claire Weekes: Managing Anxiety

 

video: Claire Weekes on Anxiety and Panic

 

Claire Weekes - Hope and Help for you Nerves Audiobook  

 

Emotional Spirals

 

Acknowledge Accept Float

 

Music to Calm Anxiety

 

Breathing Technique for Anxiety

 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help ...

 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes) Female voice - getselfhelp.co.uk

 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes) Male voice - getselfhelp.co.uk

 

Meditation

[Jaffa]

@BaccatePlayer

I’m feeling everything you write . It’s profound and so disturbing. I’m here for it . You are not alone. Your pain is so acute and yet you get to church , hard though it must be. Please be kind to yourself. Acknowledge that this is a brain injury or wound and it will heal my friend. It’s a long time. I day feels like a year. I know. Hugging you tight. ❤️

[Jaffa]

@BaccatePlayer

Thinking of you .I hope you had some decent sleep last night. I hope that you have some moments today where everything feels a little more manageable. How are you going?

[BaccatePlayer]

On 6/26/2024 at 4:20 PM, mariamisery said:

@BaccatePlayerI feel your strength even through this chat. How you get from one day to the next is helping others to fight. If you are getting through then so can I. What you are experiencing is very hard to deal with.  My heart goes out to you having to endure so much pain. Sending hugs and healing.✨

Thank you! I'm not getting through days with full control. I'm experiencing several panic attacks daily and I feel stuck in DP/DR, where my body follows as usual but my mind is trapped in another dimension, suffering. The only progress I made is that I stopped being paranoid about every little thing affecting my symptoms. Waves are like black glasses that you wake up with, and they are removed suddenly without warning. The key is to use common sense and remember it won't make us go insane or stay at too high intensity for too long. I hate how my parents say that they also sometimes get headaches or faintness. You do not want to stop and contemplate that your symptoms are coming from visiting a certain place, eating certain food, or talking to certain people. As mstimc said, if you start asking if something is going to make you anxious, it definitely will. Investing time in taking care of yourself, training your mind not to be scared of symptoms, and trying to ignore them is crucial. You don't poke a wound if you know it hurts, so don't explore thoughts that wouldn't be felt this way if you weren't in a wave. Feel relieved by knowing you need to do nothing but enter rest and digest mode.

 

On 6/26/2024 at 5:26 PM, Tulip52 said:

@BaccatePlayer I looked up levothyroxine and learned that it’s a hormone for thyroid.  Can you get your thyroid levels checked?  Maybe cortisol has pushed your levels out of whack.

 

edited to add:  Also, when we are in extreme stress mode we burn through our electrolytes like a wildfire and then get really dehydrated and our adrenals suffer… causing high anxiety. 
 

adrenal cocktail

 

4 oz orange juice (vitamin c)

 

1/4 tsp cream of tartar (potassium.. found in seasoning isle at grocery store)

 

1/4 tsp Celtic sea salt

 

mix, take on empty stomach 2-3 times a day.  Wait 30 minutes before eating or drinking after.

 

this cocktail helps to balance out our blood sugar, calms the dehydrated adrenals and when our adrenal glands can rest a little from the support our cortisol lowers.

 

 

I decided to give it a few days and see what happens. Although I had stomachaches and terrible digestive system symptoms, these were likely from withdrawal. I don't think levothyroxine contributes; it's just weird that all of a sudden I got afraid that I'm taking it for too long. This was an extreme level of faintness and a really severe wave, but I can see it now morphing into a new set: pinchy eye and then blurry vision, as well as hearing suddenly feeling pressed down. Any tips on anxiety are always welcome in this community, so much appreciation, Tulip!

 

[KaiLee]

Glad to hear that you have at least some progress.

I know how relieved we can be when we find at least something is getting better.

I am much better these days, and I am also finally trying to overcome the trauma that made me go through this hell at the first place.
Rejection, lack of communication, feelings of abandonment from childhood, etc.

But I am still trying to figure out what happened in my life, though. I am not sure about anything at this moment.

It hurts like hell, but I am surviving. I am making my way through, and I will.

Hope you will, too.

Take care.  

[BaccatePlayer]

On 6/26/2024 at 6:16 PM, Sonia009 said:

@BaccatePlayer Hi, have you spoken to your doctor 're this medication and your concerns about it?

If I were you I would get my bloods checked, blood pressure etc just for peace of mind. 😊🙏

My dad was a medical rescuer and tested my sugar, blood pressure, and pulse, and says they're perfect. I definitely know any symptoms I have would not show up on any test. My endocrinologist prescribed it for over half a year, being sure it is fine for me. It's probably just a coincidence that I'm having a wave of several panic attacks daily, terrible mornings, and symptoms based around faintness, nausea, bowel issues, and tastes in my mouth. Maybe taking it is some trigger, but likely no bigger than eating or waking up. I already saw how powerful it is and what it can do with other systems like reproductive or respiratory. Since I'm still here, I'll give it some more time; maybe my mind will stop associating levothyroxine with what's going on. Some people had these issues, even at this point in the timeline, so let's assume it's normal, though I wasn't expecting it to still be on the worsening curve after almost 3 months. Anders Sørensen says you can't really ignore symptoms from incorrect tapering as it's too intense, but if I follow common sense and avoid triggers, it's just a matter of getting through the days anyhow.

 

On 6/26/2024 at 6:27 PM, getofflex said:

I'm sorry you are feeling so poorly.  In my opinion, I suspect that you are probably in a wave.  You only quit the drugs 7 months ago.  It looks like you stopped them at high doses, as well, so it was basically a cold turkey.  Plus, you have started and stopped and changed many drugs since 2020.  All of these drug changes are cumulative, and can affect people for years.  I'm almost 2 years off Lexapro, and I'm still not 100% recovered from that, although I'm so much better than I was.  

 

I, too, am on levothyroxine. What dose are you on?  I do not see this in your drug signature - please add it with the dose, thank you.  Unless you are on a very high dose of it, it should not affect your nervous system.  

 

What non drug coping strategies are you using to help?  

Yes, I'm in a wave because I haven't reached a stable point where I'm having windows in my recovery yet. Every day is a wave, and it has only been two and a half months since PAWS set in, so it's understandable that I'm not seeing improvement yet. I recently had a panic attack and, for some reason, I started to worry that my 25 mcg levothyroxine might be contributing to my symptoms. I've been taking it daily for around a year without any problems, but lately, as my symptoms have involved my digestive system, I've been freaking out each morning after taking it. I know we discussed it before and concluded it was fine, especially since I was taking it even before the onset of psychotropic issues, but I included it in my signature just in case. The strategies I'm trying to employ are based on Jenn Swan's DEAL method: "Decide you know it's from withdrawal, Evoke a non-engagement response, Allow it to last as long as needed, and Live as if drugs didn't damage you." I can't turn to any psychiatric medications now because I've already had too much kindling from them in the past. I'm trying to reassure myself that this is just a case of protracted bupropion withdrawal, which developed while I was still recovering from the sertraline adverse reaction. This "irritated the wound" even further, which is why I'm not experiencing any windows and why my healing process is taking so much time. Reinstatement within the first few days of discontinuation didn't work, so now I can only wait until I start having windows again.

 

My strongest source of comfort is my faith; I'm a deeply spiritual person. My friends are surprised that I haven't turned to benzos, but I'm scared they'll only make things worse since I don't respond well to drugs anymore. I've tried to find solace in Glenmullen's symptoms list, but my specific symptoms aren't mentioned there. Thankfully, I've found users on the forum who relate to most of the ones I experience, so I don't feel so alone. There are articles on the forum like "What's Happening in Your Brain" or "How Drugs Remodel Your Brain," but I don't find them particularly helpful in my situation. Overall, I try to spend as little time on the forum as possible because when I look up topics on specific symptoms like DP/DR, there isn't much useful information. It's mostly people sharing their experiences, and any suggested strategies are often minor ("use your sense of touch") and don't make a significant difference. I also avoid reading success stories because they are more upsetting than what my panicking mind views as the "worst-case scenario."

 

I wish there were more comprehensive strategies available, but for now, I'm doing what I can: avoiding caffeine, ensuring sufficient sleep, taking Epsom salt baths, and listening to autogenic training podcasts. I don't think I have health anxiety per se, but more like anxiety about anxiety or a fear of pain. When these feelings arise, I try to ignore them because my brain is still healing, and it's not helpful to try to predict or analyze my symptoms too much. I keep myself fairly busy most days, walking around the garage my parents are building and talking to them. I also engage in drawing and sorting data about typology and sports, but it's still the acute phase, and I'm just hanging on and doing whatever I can to get through each day. It feels like walking blindfolded and pretending I can see where I'm going.

 

Coping with panic attacks is incredibly challenging. Often, by the time I recognize what's happening, it's too late, as my panic attacks don't always involve direct anxiety. Sometimes, my current symptoms suddenly intensify, and I find myself stuck in a state of depersonalization/derealization, desperately trying to fix them until it becomes unbearable, and I snap out of it, left wondering what just happened. These episodes can build up over several hours, and I often move from one panic attack to another. So, for now, time seems to be the only answer as it all feels "chemically forced".

[Sonia009]

52 minutes ago, BaccatePlayer said:

My dad was a medical rescuer and tested my sugar, blood pressure, and pulse, and says they're perfect. I definitely know any symptoms I have would not show up on any test.

 

@BaccatePlayer That's really good to hear, I'm, so glad you have that support at home.😊🙏

 

52 minutes ago, BaccatePlayer said:

My endocrinologist prescribed it for over half a year, being sure it is fine for me. It's probably just a coincidence that I'm having a wave of several panic attacks daily, terrible mornings, and symptoms based around faintness, nausea, bowel issues, and tastes in my mouth. Maybe taking it is some trigger, but likely no bigger than eating or waking up. I already saw how powerful it is and what it can do with other systems like reproductive or respiratory. Since I'm still here, I'll give it some more time; maybe my mind will stop associating levothyroxine with what's going on. Some people had these issues, even at this point in the timeline, so let's assume it's normal, though I wasn't expecting it to still be on the worsening curve after almost 3 months. Anders Sørensen says you can't really ignore symptoms from incorrect tapering as it's too intense, but if I follow common sense and avoid triggers, it's just a matter of getting through the days anyhow.

 

Yes, I'm in a wave because I haven't reached a stable point where I'm having windows in my recovery yet. Every day is a wave, and it has only been two and a half months since PAWS set in, so it's understandable that I'm not seeing improvement yet. I recently had a panic attack and, for some reason, I started to worry that my 25 mcg levothyroxine might be contributing to my symptoms. I've been taking it daily for around a year without any problems, but lately, as my symptoms have involved my digestive system, I've been freaking out each morning after taking it. I know we discussed it before and concluded it was fine, especially since I was taking it even before the onset of psychotropic issues, but I included it in my signature just in case. The strategies I'm trying to employ are based on Jenn Swan's DEAL method: "Decide you know it's from withdrawal, Evoke a non-engagement response, Allow it to last as long as needed, and Live as if drugs didn't damage you." I can't turn to any psychiatric medications now because I've already had too much kindling from them in the past. I'm trying to reassure myself that this is just a case of protracted bupropion withdrawal, which developed while I was still recovering from the sertraline adverse reaction. This "irritated the wound" even further, which is why I'm not experiencing any windows and why my healing process is taking so much time. Reinstatement within the first few days of discontinuation didn't work, so now I can only wait until I start having windows again.

 

My strongest source of comfort is my faith; I'm a deeply spiritual person. My friends are surprised that I haven't turned to benzos, but I'm scared they'll only make things worse since I don't respond well to drugs anymore. I've tried to find solace in Glenmullen's symptoms list, but my specific symptoms aren't mentioned there. Thankfully, I've found users on the forum who relate to most of the ones I experience, so I don't feel so alone. There are articles on the forum like "What's Happening in Your Brain" or "How Drugs Remodel Your Brain," but I don't find them particularly helpful in my situation. Overall, I try to spend as little time on the forum as possible because when I look up topics on specific symptoms like DP/DR, there isn't much useful information. It's mostly people sharing their experiences, and any suggested strategies are often minor ("use your sense of touch") and don't make a significant difference. I also avoid reading success stories because they are more upsetting than what my panicking mind views as the "worst-case scenario."

 

I wish there were more comprehensive strategies available, but for now, I'm doing what I can: avoiding caffeine, ensuring sufficient sleep, taking Epsom salt baths, and listening to autogenic training podcasts. I don't think I have health anxiety per se, but more like anxiety about anxiety or a fear of pain. When these feelings arise, I try to ignore them because my brain is still healing, and it's not helpful to try to predict or analyze my symptoms too much. I keep myself fairly busy most days, walking around the garage my parents are building and talking to them. I also engage in drawing and sorting data about typology and sports, but it's still the acute phase, and I'm just hanging on and doing whatever I can to get through each day. It feels like walking blindfolded and pretending I can see where I'm going.

 

Coping with panic attacks is incredibly challenging. Often, by the time I recognize what's happening, it's too late, as my panic attacks don't always involve direct anxiety. Sometimes, my current symptoms suddenly intensify, and I find myself stuck in a state of depersonalization/derealization, desperately trying to fix them until it becomes unbearable, and I snap out of it, left wondering what just happened. These episodes can build up over several hours, and I often move from one panic attack to another. So, for now, time seems to be the only answer as it all feels "chemically forced".