BaccatePlayer: Immediate adverse reaction to sertraline

[BaccatePlayer]

On 6/26/2024 at 6:31 PM, getofflex said:

Here are some simple methods for helping with panic.  Please do make use of these, they can help a lot.  

All of these strategies are either ones I already use or practice something based on similar principles but with a different name. I know the exact audio clip you mentioned almost by heart, and I shared it with a group recently. From my experience, if a series of panic attacks is going to happen, it feels like it's inevitable, even if I do everything right. There's also a "panic hangover" afterward that lasts for long hours and following days, leaving me feeling unsafe and uncertain, with my thoughts spiraling out of control. The burden is too heavy for me to even think rationally, so I often ask my mom to "think for me" during those times. The intensity of vertigo, dissociation, and some sort of "internal aura" in my brain is probably the mental equivalent of passing kidney stones. However, I remind myself that the most acute phase won't last forever, and I look to the following weeks with hope. After three months, I expect to see at least some small signs of progress.

On 6/27/2024 at 5:09 AM, Jaffa said:

@BaccatePlayer

I’m feeling everything you write . It’s profound and so disturbing. I’m here for it . You are not alone. Your pain is so acute and yet you get to church , hard though it must be. Please be kind to yourself. Acknowledge that this is a brain injury or wound and it will heal my friend. It’s a long time. I day feels like a year. I know. Hugging you tight. ❤️

Hug. I'm trying to reframe all of this as something that I only feel but is not actually happening. I hope that going to the shop or church doesn't make my symptoms worse, but I don't understand how standing or sitting in a car could increase my stress levels. The panic attacks can subside, but they can also return with full force. I think I experienced panic attacks as a symptom during my first CNS crash for around 80 days, which would mean that I should stop having them from now on. Even without panic attacks, it's still a challenging journey, but at least I wouldn't cross certain levels of severity. My heart is with you as well. I don't know what I would do without the support of angels like you.

[Kaylaq]

So sorry you are suffering so much still…. No one seems to talk about how the chemical dump from our anxiety or panic attacks is really hard on the body, ….constant cortisol and adrenaline are affecting our recovery also…. 
 

so glad you are doing positive things in your life, that helps so much to get through the days…. Sending prayers for some relief in your healing 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 🥰🥰🥰

[Gonzo]

@BaccatePlayer panic attacks can be a trauma response, related to the trauma response defense cascade: freeze-flight/fine-fight-fright-flag/fawn-faint. Panic would be the fright response. I tell you this because giving meaning to these experiences is very important to make them more manageable. I don't know what triggers the panic attacks for you, triggers can be very subtle. Building a trauma narrative helps to understand better what's happening to us and to communicate our difficult experiences to other in an understandable way, to make human connections easier, it's a non intellectualized meaning framework, which can help to get support when in distress (like during panic attacks). Triggers can vary from bodily sensations, thoughts, feelings and emotions, physical objects, other people, social situations... almost anything. The trigger is realted to anything that made us feel unsafe in the past, alone, rejected, abandoned, oppressed, alienated, etc. Panic attacks also are socially seen as a defect of character so that makes them feel worse, people think we are weak for having panic attacks and that makes them worse because in those vulnerable moments is when we need the most to be seen and supported. IMHO recovery is moral recovery, no matter if it's just WD or not, we recover once we feel "normal" again.

[BaccatePlayer]

On 6/30/2024 at 10:43 AM, Jaffa said:

@BaccatePlayer

Thinking of you .I hope you had some decent sleep last night. I hope that you have some moments today where everything feels a little more manageable. How are you going?

Yes, a full night's sleep definitely helps, and I'm relieved to say that I didn't have a panic attack yesterday, which is a step in the right direction. Still, I'm feeling some weird sickness today. I've experienced a similar sensation before, but only during my second crash, so I believe it's unique to bupropion withdrawal. I've noticed that whenever I see my hormones on the desk, I immediately feel a surge of rapid panic. It also instantly increases that internal weird feeling, but since I've logically ruled it out as a source of worsening symptoms, I know it's just my body's panic response. It will probably take a few days for my mind to stop associating those hormones with the panic attack, as my CNS now perceives them as a serious danger. Desensitization is challenging, but withdrawal is full of moments where you have to remind yourself, "Don't trust everything you feel." I tend to feel better in the afternoons, but mornings are a struggle, like hanging on by a thread. I need to distance myself from that ultimate panic or it will keep fueling itself. I think I was in a similar place when March began, and my condition started improving drastically once I moved past the panic attacks. Hopefully, I'm close to such a breakthrough. Thinking about my angels every day gives me strength.

3 hours ago, KaiLee said:

Glad to hear that you have at least some progress.

I know how relieved we can be when we find at least something is getting better.

I am much better these days, and I am also finally trying to overcome the trauma that made me go through this hell at the first place.
Rejection, lack of communication, feelings of abandonment from childhood, etc.

But I am still trying to figure out what happened in my life, though. I am not sure about anything at this moment.

It hurts like hell, but I am surviving. I am making my way through, and I will.

Hope you will, too.

Take care.  

I understand. I hope your new self finds true contentment in life and aligns with your values and integrity. I know you're primarily focused on addressing your psychological issues and overcoming your traumas, and it's good that you now have the space to work on these peacefully. My nervous system is still a mess, but I have faith that it will heal eventually. Thank you, Kai. I appreciate that you always take the time to visit and connect with your dearest souls here. So happy for you, and cheering for your continued success.

[getofflex]

I'm sorry for all you are going through, Baccate. It sounds like you are coping with it as best you can, and are using non drug coping strategies, which is great.  This too shall pass. Do you ever use simple distraction?  This means doing a simple physical task that will help you get your mind off of your symptoms.  This helped me a lot when I was acute.  

[BaccatePlayer]

14 hours ago, Sonia009 said:

@BaccatePlayer That's really good to hear, I'm, so glad you have that support at home.😊🙏

My mom instructed everyone not to upset me, but when they engage in arguments with each other, it doesn't create a peaceful environment for me either. While I understand that I can't avoid all sources of stress, I wish there was a way for me to reassure my limbic mind that it is safe and secure.

13 hours ago, Kaylaq said:

So sorry you are suffering so much still…. No one seems to talk about how the chemical dump from our anxiety or panic attacks is really hard on the body, ….constant cortisol and adrenaline are affecting our recovery also…. 
 

so glad you are doing positive things in your life, that helps so much to get through the days…. Sending prayers for some relief in your healing 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 🥰🥰🥰

Yes, that's an accurate description. I can't tolerate much stress, even if it's from positive events. It feels like I'm straining an already taxed body and mind. My body needs more time to recover from even situational fatigue and remains in a vulnerable state. Thank you, Kayla. I hope our efforts pay off, and we can move past this emotional turmoil soon.

[BaccatePlayer]

20 hours ago, Gonzo said:

@BaccatePlayer panic attacks can be a trauma response, related to the trauma response defense cascade: freeze-flight/fine-fight-fright-flag/fawn-faint. Panic would be the fright response. I tell you this because giving meaning to these experiences is very important to make them more manageable. I don't know what triggers the panic attacks for you, triggers can be very subtle. Building a trauma narrative helps to understand better what's happening to us and to communicate our difficult experiences to other in an understandable way, to make human connections easier, it's a non intellectualized meaning framework, which can help to get support when in distress (like during panic attacks). Triggers can vary from bodily sensations, thoughts, feelings and emotions, physical objects, other people, social situations... almost anything. The trigger is realted to anything that made us feel unsafe in the past, alone, rejected, abandoned, oppressed, alienated, etc. Panic attacks also are socially seen as a defect of character so that makes them feel worse, people think we are weak for having panic attacks and that makes them worse because in those vulnerable moments is when we need the most to be seen and supported. IMHO recovery is moral recovery, no matter if it's just WD or not, we recover once we feel "normal" again.

It's been two days, and while I can't say for certain that panic attacks won't return, I'm taking it one day at a time. Despite the challenges, I'm still here, and my body has done what it needed to survive. I explained to my mom how my dad's attitude has influenced me and my sister. When one solution doesn't work, our minds seek alternative paths. When many of those fail, our coping mechanisms become more unique, and what may seem eccentric might be labeled as a disorder by doctors. However, I believe that whatever mechanisms my brain chooses, it's simply its way of trying to ensure my survival in challenging circumstances. It's not trying to harm me; if that were the case, it would have succeeded by now. Both panic attacks and depersonalization/derealization are protective tools employed by our central nervous system. They may be uncomfortable, but they are efficient ways to signal to ourselves that something needs attention, often through fear or pain.

16 hours ago, getofflex said:

I'm sorry for all you are going through, Baccate. It sounds like you are coping with it as best you can, and are using non drug coping strategies, which is great.  This too shall pass. Do you ever use simple distraction?  This means doing a simple physical task that will help you get your mind off of your symptoms.  This helped me a lot when I was acute.

I have to rely on these strategies most of the time. There are a lot of quick tasks involved, such as sorting or writing down specific combinations of elements I have available. These tasks don't require intense focus, but they often help me shift my perspective, even if just a little. I still have this trauma-like reaction to levothyroxine. After I wake up and take my tablet, my heart rate almost immediately increases, causing unbearable symptoms. This happened yesterday and lasted quite a while, and today it was around two hours. Whenever I think about levothyroxine, my anxiety and symptoms peak. I don't know what to do about it. It's understandable that my amygdala goes into overdrive, recalling the memory of a panic attack right after taking levothyroxine, but there's no rational basis for this reaction. Melissa Boutilier explains that the limbic brain doesn't speak the language of words; it only understands actions. So, I'm considering giving it a few more days to see if my brain realizes that I'm safe while taking levothyroxine. My panic wants to convince me otherwise, tensing my stomach, frying my head, and sending neurothoughts about fearing levothyroxine. Erimus suggested that practicing three sets of 30 minutes of diaphragmatic breathing daily can help with constant stress, but lately, I've been interrupted by jumpscares whenever I try it. I think I had a similar issue with fearing levothyroxine at the beginning of this year, but eventually, I lost that negative association. Currently, I'm trying to get through each day without alarming myself further, so my nervous system doesn't fixate on the symptoms. However, I know that my morning brain interprets reality differently, and it's a challenge. I truly appreciate your support. I really hope you're doing well. I'm sure you understand how intense and overwhelming this journey can be, so let's hope our future selves find themselves in a better place.

[getofflex]

26 minutes ago, BaccatePlayer said:

I still have this trauma-like reaction to levothyroxine. After I wake up and take my tablet, my heart rate almost immediately increases, causing unbearable symptoms. This happened yesterday and lasted quite a while, and today it was around two hours. Whenever I think about levothyroxine, my anxiety and symptoms peak. I don't know what to do about it.

I would say it is one of two things:  

 

1) Maybe your dose is too high.  You would need to speak about this to your doctor. However, 25 mcg sounds like a low dose.  I'm on 75 mcg, and it doesn't affect me at all.  

 

2) maybe you have developed high anxiety around levothyroxine, and this anxiety is driving your high heart rate and other symptoms.  

 

I suspect in your case, it is number 2 above.  It would take some time for this to get in your bloodstream, and your symptoms are starting immediately after you take it.  I'm wondering if you have developed a phobia of taking drugs, which would be understandable after your bad experience with psych drugs.  My suggestion would be to find ways to try to overcome this phobia. 

[Gonzo]

To add to what getofflex said, this type of phobia is linked to a fear of losing control, usually for good reasons.

[AAOffZ]

@BaccatePlayer I had a similar reaction to it. Was never able to take it. Mind you, I never really needed it, my thyroid went wacko after pregnancy and my TSH was mildly elevated. Doc through my anxiety was cause by that mild hypo so we tried Levo. I remember feeling horrendous. Only took it 2 days. Not saying you’re having the same reaction, this was just my experience. 
 

Side note, if you really are hypo/hasimotos… (not just subclinical) maybe armorthroid might be a little gentler on your system? 
 

 

[BaccatePlayer]

1 hour ago, getofflex said:

I would say it is one of two things:  

 

1) Maybe your dose is too high.  You would need to speak about this to your doctor. However, 25 mcg sounds like a low dose.  I'm on 75 mcg, and it doesn't affect me at all.  

 

2) maybe you have developed high anxiety around levothyroxine, and this anxiety is driving your high heart rate and other symptoms.  

 

I suspect in your case, it is number 2 above.  It would take some time for this to get in your bloodstream, and your symptoms are starting immediately after you take it.  I'm wondering if you have developed a phobia of taking drugs, which would be understandable after your bad experience with psych drugs.  My suggestion would be to find ways to try to overcome this phobia. 

Yes, that's what I suspect as well. I visited my endocrinologist after being on it for three months, and she advised me to continue with the same dose for the next six months. Given that I've never experienced any issues with this dosage and that my body has likely adjusted to it, I don't believe the dose is the problem. The symptoms I'm experiencing are transient and fluctuate throughout the day. They manifest in surges lasting few minutes before fading into the background afternoon, and they change day by day. I think high cortisol when I wake up, and the memory of those terrible mornings is triggering my system to go from a state of rest to maximum activation within minutes causing too much of a shock.

 

I find myself in a constant state of heightened anxiety, and despite my logical reassurances, it's challenging to calm my mind chemically. Too loud. Too intense. I'm not entirely sure how to overcome this phobia, but I believe it's a recent wave that has intensified my panic. In the past, I've had paranoid thoughts about food and certain activities, but I successfully desensitized myself (wave by wave), and those thoughts eventually subsided. However, at this moment, my body is on high alert, reacting to the slightest stimuli, be it a noise, tension, or even the movement of liquids in my stomach and throat.

 

It seems common to develop a fear of medications during withdrawal, and many in my support group share similar concerns about how they would react to administered substances if they became ill or injured. Quite beneficial to be scared of SSRIs or antibiotics during this time, but when mind is creating incorrect associations between our symptoms and the medications we take it can be problematic in cases like mine. My plan is to continue taking it while verbally affirming that my symptoms are a result of withdrawal and intense anxiety. I may also adjust the timing of my dosage to avoid stacking it with morning cortisol. I'm hopeful that this form of "exposure therapy" will eventually lead to improvement.

 

Externally, I may appear calm, but internally, my mood is consumed by fears for my safety and sanity. I have to constantly remind myself that this situation is temporary and that the medication will not cause me harm. I think... I forget that too easily. Waves + panic attacks + wet dream + said attacks waking me up at nights = too much burden at once...

 

1 hour ago, Gonzo said:

To add to what gettoflex said, this type of phobia is linked to a fear of losing control, usually for good reasons.

Obviously. I thought it was common sense. On a simplistic note, any fear we react to boils down to whether we will remain safe, healthy, and able to reproduce. We achieve this through various means, but these are all normal worries that don't require much investigation to recognize. I guess it would be hard to find someone who wouldn't be scared of feeling unbearably bad after taking medication, knowing that they had a similar adverse reaction in the past, unless we're talking about those psychedelics enthusiasts who seek out the loss of control. But that's neither me nor my goal.

[getofflex]

1 hour ago, BaccatePlayer said:

My plan is to continue taking it while verbally affirming that my symptoms are a result of withdrawal and intense anxiety. I may also adjust the timing of my dosage to avoid stacking it with morning cortisol. I'm hopeful that this form of "exposure therapy" will eventually lead to improvement.

This sounds like a very good plan.  I would adjust the timing of it gradually, an hour or two each day, instead of all at once.  

 

 

[BaccatePlayer]

On 7/2/2024 at 6:00 PM, AAOffZ said:

@BaccatePlayer I had a similar reaction to it. Was never able to take it. Mind you, I never really needed it, my thyroid went wacko after pregnancy and my TSH was mildly elevated. Doc through my anxiety was cause by that mild hypo so we tried Levo. I remember feeling horrendous. Only took it 2 days. Not saying you’re having the same reaction, this was just my experience. 
 

Side note, if you really are hypo/hasimotos… (not just subclinical) maybe armorthroid might be a little gentler on your system? 

My thyroid is very small and atrophied. Both of my parents have Hashimoto's disease and, although my TSH levels weren't extremely high, I've never had any problems with levothyroxine. It was working fine before the onset of withdrawal, so unless there's a risk of my dose suddenly becoming too high after several months, I don't believe that's the issue. I'll likely stop taking it eventually, but I already have a two-month supply of the lowest dose at home.

22 hours ago, getofflex said:

This sounds like a very good plan.  I would adjust the timing of it gradually, an hour or two each day, instead of all at once.  

This is unlikely to be an issue, as I can only postpone my dose until 10. Otherwise, it wouldn't have sufficient time to take effect before I start eating. I woke up early and had a stressful morning. I took my dose and didn't experience any problems related to it. Unfortunately, I believe another wave hit later on, as I felt insanely faint, fatigued, and nauseous. The tension headaches were so intense that I could barely recognize them. I also experienced brain burning and heart weakness. I think what disrupts my sleep without me realizing it is the return of PGAD as a symptom. Every time I wake up at night, I find that I've had an erection the entire time, and it doesn't subside even when I stand up. A variation of it recurs during late evenings up to early mornings in my withdrawal from time to time.

 

It's been challenging to convince myself, amidst all the panic, that my digestive system is also affected by withdrawal: the noises, the strange sensations, the uncomfortable bowel movements, and the odd tastes in my mouth. I even realized that my panic caused me to forget that I wasn't going to die from these symptoms. I seem to have gotten over the "panic hangover" that usually follows a panic attack, where my body replays parts of the attack in the mornings after. Thankfully, my system has stopped associating levothyroxine with withdrawal. Nonetheless, next Saturday marks three months of this acute phase, and I'm struggling to cope with so many systems malfunctioning simultaneously.

[BaccatePlayer]

Hanging on by a thread. Sleepy. Tension headaches. Unidentified physical suffering. Wierd tastes in mouth. Brain burning. Digestive system altered. Throat easily tired. Thirsty all the time. PGAD. Wave after wave.

[LostInCanada]

Your body is in overdrive trying to regulate. These drugs affect absolutely every system and nerve in our bodies.

All the various drugs and dosages caused alot of adaptation. Now your body has to undo all those changes. 

The great news is you are off the drugs. Patience and time. Don't push yourself. Be kind. ♥️

[BaccatePlayer]

3 minutes ago, LostInCanada said:

Your body is in overdrive trying to regulate. These drugs affect absolutely every system and nerve in our bodies.

All the various drugs and dosages caused alot of adaptation. Now your body has to undo all those changes. 

The great news is you are off the drugs. Patience and time. Don't push yourself. Be kind. ♥️

Thank you homie! Feeling burnout. Symptoms would come and go. This set stays for very long now. Affirmations seem like powerless background noise when it should be other way round. I'm acute for so long. Always asking myself for a week/month more... and then again... and again...

[LostInCanada]

17 minutes ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Always asking myself for a week/month more... and then again... and again...

You really are doing so well in such an awful situation. It will get better. ♥️

[Dahlia50]

49 minutes ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Hanging on by a thread. Sleepy. Tension headaches. Unidentified physical suffering. Wierd tastes in mouth. Brain burning. Digestive system altered. Throat easily tired. Thirsty all the time. PGAD. Wave after wave.

@BaccatePlayer Same. Brain burning, extreme pressure, tension headaches, it pulls and hurts in different places in the brain, achy body, weak, digestion/bloating, very thirsty/dry, fatigue, tired in the eyes. Wave after wave. So exhausted. Can barely think affirmations.

No one should have to struggle like this.

Thinking of you. Hug 💛🩵

[Sonia009]

56 minutes ago, Dahlia50 said:

@BaccatePlayer Same. Brain burning, extreme pressure, tension headaches, it pulls and hurts in different places in the brain, achy body, weak, digestion/bloating, very thirsty/dry, fatigue, tired in the eyes. Wave after wave. So exhausted. Can barely think affirmations.

No one should have to struggle like this.

Thinking of you. Hug 💛🩵

@BaccatePlayer @Dahlia50 So sorry you are both suffering, I wish I could offer you words of wisdom but all I can say is I hope this nightmare passes soon for you both. These drugs have affected us all one way or another but you both have had more than your fair share of horrible symptoms. Just want you to know that you are both in my thoughts. 🙏😊

[mariamisery]

@BaccatePlayer  Hope you start getting better soon! Thinking of you. You are strong!

[BaccatePlayer]

13 hours ago, LostInCanada said:

You really are doing so well in such an awful situation. It will get better. ♥️

Hopefully. Felt some pseudo-fever at night. Woke up feeling so bad I thought I won't make it, but realized it's not like that when I stop thinking about it. Really scared. Passing days however I can. Thank you a lot! Severe anxious reaction to events/things that were proven harmless. Maybe I'm not getting worse and worse, but I'm not getting better either.

13 hours ago, Dahlia50 said:

@BaccatePlayer Same. Brain burning, extreme pressure, tension headaches, it pulls and hurts in different places in the brain, achy body, weak, digestion/bloating, very thirsty/dry, fatigue, tired in the eyes. Wave after wave. So exhausted. Can barely think affirmations.

No one should have to struggle like this.

Thinking of you. Hug 💛🩵

Hug. Always thinking of you first when I suffer so badly. I already saw how it can go from "I won't make it any longer" to nothing within hours/days, but this time my mind is extremely startled. I almost can't hold any thought because limbic brain is stuck at such panic. I need to keep slapping it cause mentally the sun is hidding behind clouds and I completely don't feel safe. I'm running away from my thoughts as it all skyrockets under my awareness. This is all so fake and knowing it "posseses" me is stripping me off hope.

[Dahlia50]

@BaccatePlayer ❤️

[BaccatePlayer]

12 hours ago, Sonia009 said:

@BaccatePlayer @Dahlia50 So sorry you are both suffering, I wish I could offer you words of wisdom but all I can say is I hope this nightmare passes soon for you both. These drugs have affected us all one way or another but you both have had more than your fair share of horrible symptoms. Just want you to know that you are both in my thoughts. 🙏😊

I think I'm having severe anxious reaction to putting whatever to my stomach. For the past few days I'm waking up with extreme internal overload. Heartburn, nausea that wants to expel everything from my system, throat squeeze and tension headaches that literally feel as if my head is getting pumped with more and more of something and wants to explode from pain. All that clenched panic mixes with whatever I eat and causes some heat-like explosions on my whole body. To make it worse, I'm having some really big ulcer on private area and struggle to sit, move, sleep and use toilet. I hope Alantan doesn't worsen symptoms. Can't stand a few minutes of that. I'm also thinking about you, and Dahlia, and all of my angels, but I got completely lost in my symptoms lately. I can neither stand it; nor persuade myself it's just withdrawal.

 

12 hours ago, mariamisery said:

@BaccatePlayer  Hope you start getting better soon! Thinking of you. You are strong!

Thinking of you too, dearest. Thank you! I'm just afraid I'm stuck in acute phase for many more months.

 

20 minutes ago, Dahlia50 said:

@BaccatePlayer ❤️

 

 

 

[mariamisery]

@BaccatePlayer @Dahlia50 Thanks for being such examples of strength.  Some of symptoms are less but many left that are bad. Thinking about going through the next minute is hard. When symptoms hit hard is it best to just let them be and breathe through them? Does your strength lie in the fact that your healing will come? I always feel weak. I want to be strong.  Thank you.  Sending hope and hugs.

[BaccatePlayer]

1 hour ago, mariamisery said:

@BaccatePlayer @Dahlia50 Thanks for being such examples of strength.  Some of symptoms are less but many left that are bad. Thinking about going through the next minute is hard. When symptoms hit hard is it best to just let them be and breathe through them? Does your strength lie in the fact that your healing will come? I always feel weak. I want to be strong.  Thank you.  Sending hope and hugs.

When symptoms arise, get involved in something. You have to leave them alone, the more you pay attention to them, the more they will be consuming you. I actually try to live as if it weren't ever to improve. This is essentially like healing from heartbreak. If you start spending time on mocking your ex in your head or torturing him, that's still keeping strong emotions towards him alive. It's only a matter of direction. Limbic mind doesn't speak language of words. All it understands are actions. Therefore, if you spend your whole day with your symptoms worrying about them and then another day reassuring yourself that you're strong, that you're gonna make it and soon be as you were before, then you're essentially doing the same thing because you fail on the "E" which is "Evoke non-engagement response" part. The next day you wake up, your mind has no reason to ignore symptoms because you've still attributed all your previous day's thoughts and actions to the withdrawal topic. If you go for a walk, don't think "I need more strength" or "Am I strong enough for this?" but proceed to get lost in it without any narrative. Afterall, you're not disabled, you know what does and what doesn't harm you. Ever wondered why those who recovered don't know when and how it happened? Because they just got back to life. Had they kept watching the symptoms, waiting for them to go away, their brains would not stop sending adrenaline cause the "fight or flight mode" would still be reinforced.

[Gonzo]

I think it's important to ackowledge that the pressure to recover comes not only from the desire to relieve the suffering but to be "normal", to "fit in", to get rid of all these "symptoms" that others can not understand nor accept, so in order to avoid rejection, abandonment and loneliness we need to overcome them, or repress them, reason why so many people take the drugs in the first place. So we see all our inner experiences as dangerous as a result and the "fight-flight" stress response gets activated which doesn't help to calm down and let the body-mind do it's work of homeostasis. We are "weak" only because others do not accept nor comprehend our "weakness", hence the inner and external pressure to get rid of the "weakness". In other words, there are social factors involved and it's not all in our bodies-minds. Social pressure plays a role.

[mariamisery]

@BaccatePlayer Great advice as always.  I have tried to not focus. I have been having the  extreme exhaustion which makes it more challenging.  Thank you so much!! It is good to have you back posting and helping us. Lately I have become so tired of fighting  but there is no other choice. HUGS!

[BaccatePlayer]

2 hours ago, Gonzo said:

I think it's important to ackowledge that the pressure to recover comes not only from the desire to relieve the suffering but to be "normal", to "fit in", to get rid of all these "symptoms" that others can not understand nor accept, so in order to avoid rejection, abandonment and loneliness we need to overcome them, or repress them, reason why so many people take the drugs in the first place. So we see all our inner experiences as dangerous as a result and the "fight-flight" stress response gets activated which doesn't help to calm down and let the body-mind do it's work of homeostasis. We are "weak" only because others do not accept nor comprehend our "weakness", hence the inner and external pressure to get rid of the "weakness". In other words, there are social factors involved and it's not all in our bodies-minds. Social pressure plays a role.

Thing is, according to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, the most primitive drives are first in line, so one has to be in certain level of comfort to even take a look at the rest. I generally avoid upsetting topics because many users here are bedridden, struggle to get any money and are often in so much pain from akathisia, panic attacks and DP/DR that they literally scratch themselves or pull their own hair screaming on top of their lungs just to get through next few seconds. I think they'd get mad at me if I brought that to them, potentially viewing it as disrespectful and unneccessarly triggering. Sadly, the head center is the home of fear because it attributes meaning. It's not at the mercy of others' approval like image center nor raw like autonomic center. It creates meanings and associates various interpretations to the same situation. Ordering, comparing to past, predicting future, all this opens doors to unknown. Withdrawal is not the best time for going beyond tangible. I like what David Paul wrote about withdrawal mind. We like to think our thoughts are ourselves, but they're really just interpretations of energy. When it's positive, our thoughts will be more optimistic; when negative, they'll be of more fatalistic content. It's very simple, takes away personal responsibility and allows us to focus on what's really important which is our rational mind.

 

49 minutes ago, mariamisery said:

@BaccatePlayer Great advice as always.  I have tried to not focus. I have been having the  extreme exhaustion which makes it more challenging.  Thank you so much!! It is good to have you back posting and helping us. Lately I have become so tired of fighting  but there is no other choice. HUGS!

Hugs. I admit, I struggle with executing that myself. Cannot calm down even for a while with that system literally putting me on life or death edge, trying to convince me anything I have in stomach is poisonous. Didn't know it can be this horrible. Maybe I'm close to panic attack or something, but the last two days I'm losing the perspective so much I forget I'm not dying nor will it stay like that.

[mariamisery]

@BaccatePlayerThis is very difficult. How long can this go on. I  often think about you and @Dahlia50. How much can a person suffer?  Hoping for a big break really soon for all the sufferers! 

[mariamisery]

@BaccatePlayer Hi hope you are getting better. You write about how it feels  like your body is not surviving when the waves hit hard. When those times happens how do you get through them?  Do you just ride it out knowing that in reality it can't harm you? HUGS!!

[BaccatePlayer]

17 hours ago, mariamisery said:

@BaccatePlayerThis is very difficult. How long can this go on. I  often think about you and @Dahlia50. How much can a person suffer?  Hoping for a big break really soon for all the sufferers! 

I hate how those who comment under Melissa Boutilier's videos are always so negative. They list very long years stating they're still acute and post some wierd theories about full recovery not being possible (getting better, but still not that) and new symptoms appearing very long after last dose. It's actually here as well. I don't even mean "horror stories". If someone says "I'm surprised by your quick recovery" and I see this person healing after 2.5 years, then I guess our expectations must seem funny to everyone. There's no way I could make it better for myself: I'm young, my health is good, I don't smoke. Yet, I really feel I'm still on the "getting worse and worse" part of hyperbole. Maybe it's better to actually deny it because even if it stopped now, I wouldn't forgive the nature that it's possible for it to happen. I wasn't depressed before taking drugs, I didn't have panic attacks, DP/DR nor any of the symptoms happening now. I'm a simple person. Really. I'm not making a big deal out of the fact that I was bullied at school, that I nearly drowned as a kid or being beaten up for bad grades. Far worse things could happen and I wouldn't even need to tell anyone. I guess it applies there too. Our job is done. No meds to taper. No way of helping ourselves. Even if it lasted 20 more months and didn't improve, people would tell you that it happens, so whether it will happen or not, what you would be doing stays the same. Really starting to think it being permanent may have been a more promising prognose than it being temporary.

[BaccatePlayer]

1 hour ago, mariamisery said:

@BaccatePlayer Hi hope you are getting better. You write about how it feels  like your body is not surviving when the waves hit hard. When those times happens how do you get through them?  Do you just ride it out knowing that in reality it can't harm you? HUGS!!

I'd say just give up the control. You won't be doing anything unreasonable anyways, so let it all happen as it does. No talking affirmations to yourself, no thinking about future or past. Just assume you're "off" for some time cause chances are, you're so deep into this that any reaction would be like hitting a wall. Seriously, drop the thoughts of finding a fix. You're not in danger, and safe Maria wouldn't be looking for solution for imaginary threat.

[mariamisery]

@BaccatePlayerThank you as always.  If you and others can get through this than I should be able to do it also. Wanting to feel well is consuming me. Doing my best to not let living this way destroy me! 

[Warpman]

On 4/26/2024 at 4:37 PM, BaccatePlayer said:

That's so kind of you, I know you're struggling as well, but at least we understand each other here. I think that panic attack two weeks ago traumatized me badly and I'm still getting flashbacks to these "out of this world" sensations. A bit of depersonalization, hammer hit top head feeling, stomach slowing down, insomnia, nausea, phosphenes gallore, heart racing and panic for today. Parents don't make it easier to survive this wave, moving heavy dirt doesn't help me and constant criticism just because they're used to treating me like this. What I'm probably doing wrong now is seeing my whole day or even week through bad moments. There's less of them, they're weaker and my system can deal with them quicker. Still, a wave plays on our insecurities mercilessly and mine is obviously experiencing the uncomfortable. I can never find my place, among people 18-30 I feel too uptight and unexperienced, among older ones I may relate mindset wise, but am out of place with everything else. Trying not to dwell on whether I feel sane or lonely. As long as no panic attack occurs, I shouldn't face too much upset from now on. Lots of appreciation, Sonia. I'm especially grateful for a good listener since I don't have many others in real life.

Hi, @BaccatePlayer.

 

I had a terrible anxiety attack this morning (2 am), in which I felt a kind of anguish, a fear, accompanied by a strong weight in my shoulders and pressure in my chest, which I had never felt before. I spent the night awake and, despite having had 10 good days at the end of June, this wave hit me hard and I am extremely traumatized. Just thinking about what I went through this morning makes me cry, I don't think I'll ever get better, etc. etc. You are not alone. I leave you an affectionate hug.

[mariamisery]

@BaccatePlayer @Dahlia50 @Sonia009 Hi. Today is extremely hard! Have any of you had  days that you felt so bad that you did not think you would make it? How did you handle it?  Hope you all are feeling better.  Sending HOPE!

[BaccatePlayer]

@getofflex Sorry for bothering again, but I think my attempt goes terribly wrong. I've been taking my 25mcg levothyroxine as usual between 10 to 11 and after 10 days the following pattern repeats:

• after ~30 minutes of my dose, I'm getting some "throat stung" feeling and there are some random tensing sensations around brain,

• after ~90 minutes some "switch" happens inside me for about half an hour leaving me extremely hot (especially cheeks, but also brain, hands and ears) and hopelessly anxious,

• somewhere around the evening symptoms involve some rotting sensations in my stomach, persisting rumminations and either some form of DP/DR or cognitive confusion for long hours,

• once I'm back home around 8 I either have or almost have a panic attack of unbearable burning on the whole body,

• I'm in this "on the edge" state for almost the whole time from 1 to 11 and nothing affects it, it's like a magnet: once it "clicks", it holds me in maximum terror dimension with no traces of it ever being different. I literally have to stay completely distracted for the whole day because otherwise I'm just walking on my toes, have atypical claustrophobia and bad momentary glitches involving my hearing (like it suddenly hears everything coming from inside me, from further distance, from underwater and switches between these for seconds) and some "instant panic button".

 

My parents basically say the same things you did (dad is on 75mcg and says no way my dose has any effect and mom just points my mental relationship with meds got totally off), but they agree I likely don't need levothyroxine, especially if my TSH turns out decent. I have enough supply for exactly 8 weeks and it's already decided I won't be going to endocrynologist due to financial reasons since I'm not urgent case (my mom dropped her dose after some months and my dad plans to do the same in 2 months), but I seriously can't cope with that severe anxious reaction to my dose I developed. I managed to overcome false phobias during withdrawal in the past (I had a panic attack after eating sugar at some point even though I didn't have problems with it which caused similair anxious reaction in the following days, but I got over it; similair thing happened with going to church), but this one works the same way as sexual activity for me: no matter the time, attitude, wave or not, it always has the same specific pattern of sensations that just has to happen for given amount of hours and it's so intense that I can't go on like that.

 

I was searching for stories of people who similairly fell into trap of neverending fixation on physical sensations only to find successful ones using... clonidine... I am aware part of it is related to self-imposed anxiety, but I'm already in extremely agitated state, so I'm afraid I'm just strengthening my fears right now. I felt somewhat better after telling myself that I'll quit it, this allowed me to at least distract myself from the symptoms, but I'm completely helpless as to the future. I'd stop taking it long ago, but I was afraid I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between disconnection of this and withdrawal. Seriously don't know what to do, but my current reaction is really something I don't want to put myself through anymore. I can't even focus on what people are saying to me because this panic is too intense. Waves will never stop if I stay in such frightened state.