Schmeg82 Paxil withdrawal and taper after 21 years

[Catwoman73]

25 minutes ago, Schmeg82 said:

my days feel like they’re all running together, I’ve had no relief in symptoms lately, if anything I’ve been worse this is so discouraging.  I really want to start tapering so I can just get off these meds and be done with it but I don’t want to make myself even worse then I already am.  This is pure torture.

It absolutely is torture.  I often feel like these drugs should be banned.  I sincerely hope that, someday, we'll look back on these meds as we do the lobotomy.  Shouldn't have ever happened!

 

You say you are feeling worse than you did before reinstating- it is possible, maybe even likely, that you reinstated too high.  As you know, we prefer very low doses for reinstatement here at SA, to take the edge off of the withdrawal symptoms.  Reinstating too high can be very activating.  You certainly could consider making a small drop to see how your body reacts.  I wouldn't go more than 5% if you want to go that route.  That would represent a very small drop in SERT occupancy.  I would keep a journal, and watch to see if you get even slight improvement.  Hold for at least a month, while keeping good notes on your windows and waves. If you get worse with that small drop, you can always go back up.  But if you get better, you may be able to proceed with tapering now. 

 

Really, it is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.  We can't make any guarantees that continuing to hold will make things better... or worse.  And we can't guarantee that tapering now will make things better... or worse.   I know your provider wants you to continue to hold, but ultimately, it's your body, and what you do with it is entirely up to you.  That being said, if you want to try a small drop, do discuss it with her, and explain your reasoning.  It's important that our medical providers know what we're up to.  I just want you to feel like you have options, if things have indeed gotten worse. 

 

Hang in there @Schmeg82!  We're here for you, however you decide to proceed!

[Schmeg82]

49 minutes ago, Catwoman73 said:

It absolutely is torture.  I often feel like these drugs should be banned.  I sincerely hope that, someday, we'll look back on these meds as we do the lobotomy.  Shouldn't have ever happened!

 

You say you are feeling worse than you did before reinstating- it is possible, maybe even likely, that you reinstated too high.  As you know, we prefer very low doses for reinstatement here at SA, to take the edge off of the withdrawal symptoms.  Reinstating too high can be very activating.  You certainly could consider making a small drop to see how your body reacts.  I wouldn't go more than 5% if you want to go that route.  That would represent a very small drop in SERT occupancy.  I would keep a journal, and watch to see if you get even slight improvement.  Hold for at least a month, while keeping good notes on your windows and waves. If you get worse with that small drop, you can always go back up.  But if you get better, you may be able to proceed with tapering now. 

 

Really, it is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.  We can't make any guarantees that continuing to hold will make things better... or worse.  And we can't guarantee that tapering now will make things better... or worse.   I know your provider wants you to continue to hold, but ultimately, it's your body, and what you do with it is entirely up to you.  That being said, if you want to try a small drop, do discuss it with her, and explain your reasoning.  It's important that our medical providers know what we're up to.  I just want you to feel like you have options, if things have indeed gotten worse. 

 

Hang in there @Schmeg82!  We're here for you, however you decide to proceed!

I don’t have a regular doctor I go to because the one I go to is who told me to cut my pills in half, even though she does believe that I am in withdrawal (surprise surprise).  So I hired a withdrawal coach that I found on Facebook to help me.  She suggested that in 4-8 more weeks I do a very small taper (I’m thinking I’ll suggest just the 5%) and see how that goes, see if any of this vision stuff is an adverse effect from the reinstatement.  Or going up to high (I went from 5mg to 10mg when I reinstated). I only made it down to 5ish mg when bad withdrawal symptoms hit.  So I think I will be able to handle 5%, but I’m leaning on waiting the full 6 months of reinstating before I try and taper.  
 

im definitely getting old side effects back from being on the drug again, my bad neck ache that turns into a headache and some of the fuzzy/tingly feelings I was having in my face and head on my full 20mg.  But those are a breeze compared to a lot of my symptoms.
 

honestly my biggest complaint now is my vision and light sensitivity.  I can’t concentrate on anything or look around very long without feeling super sick, everything is flashing bad and moving.  It’s gotten significantly worse the last 2 months. So not sure a reduction will help this or make it worse 🤷🏼‍♀️😞 I’m willing to try anything at this point.  
 

my stomach has settled a lot so that’s good, I can eat without getting sick still, but I get nauseous if I do to much or look around to much because of my eyes.  
 

I’m sleeping like crazy lately, I slept until 10am again today! I don’t know if it’s stress or my body just needs it, bad thing is my dreams are always vivid and scary.  
 

i haven’t had crazy anxiety or adrenaline rushes in a while either.  I do get very agitated and aggravated easily still.  I’m always in a hurry if we have to leave to go home from somewhere I just want to get home.  

mom not as weak or shaky today but I do get a weird head/neck twitch that feels strange now, like a tremor.  Maybe has to do with the sensation in my neck.  My ears are still ringing constantly but they aren’t as loud during the day as they are at night.

 

my symptoms have been worse in the evening lately, I take my pill at 8:30am every morning. But it could be because I try and do things during the day and my body is a little more stressed, idk.  

[LostInCanada]

I am just going to paste our pm here so you have it on your thread:

Ii think the Brassmonkey slide method is even gentler. 1.25% each week for 4 weeks and then a 2 week hold. This is one of the hardest drugs to deal with and being on it longer makes it more difficult. The section on paroxetine really helps see how the drug self metabolizes so as you go lower the body uses it quicker leaving less in your blood plasma. 

 

Gentle is good.👍

 

Schmeg82

Replied: 16 minutes ago

 

  25 minutes ago, LostInCanada said:

Yes so 10 x 0.0125= 0.125. So week one would be 10- 0.125= 9.875/ week 2 would be 9.875- 0.125 = 9.75/ week 3 is 9.75-0.125=9.625/ week 4 is 9.625-0.125=9.5 Then a 2 week hold. At any time you can hold if having an increase in symptoms. 

 

The next drop calculations start with 9.5 x 0.0125= 0.118

 

So I would weigh and crush them

 

LostInCanada

Replied: 9 minutes ago

 

You just take your 10 mg pill and make your liquid from that. Say 10 mg pill with 10 ml water. Then just draw up 9.875 ml on the syringe. It depends on the lines on the syringe. It might be 9.9 or 9.8 and you would adjust your next drop accordingly. The smaller the syringe the more accurate so you could use a smaller syringe to do a partial dose with a bigger syringe doing the larger amount. 

 

The tricky part is going from pill to liquid. That transition needs to happen before starting the taper. 

 

 

[LostInCanada]

@Schmeg82 it is recommended to do 1/4 liquid 3/4 pill for 3-7 days then 1/2 and 1/2 for same time then 3/4 and 1/4 then all liquid. If symptoms appear you can go slower. So you would measure the weight of the pill and take one quarter of it to make liquid, then 1/2 then 3/4 then the whole pill. After the transition it is good to wait a month before tapering.

[Schmeg82]

2 minutes ago, LostInCanada said:

@Schmeg82 it is recommended to do 1/4 liquid 3/4 pill for 3-7 days then 1/2 and 1/2 for same time then 3/4 and 1/4 then all liquid. If symptoms appear you can go slower. So you would measure the weight of the pill and take one quarter of it to make liquid, then 1/2 then 3/4 then the whole pill. After the transition it is good to wait a month before tapering.

I wasn’t going to switch to liquid, I am going to crush and weigh my pills I think…I’m so confused 

[LostInCanada]

@Schmeg82 liquid is more accurate and less time consuming. Crushing is harder than just cutting and filing off a bit. You have time so I would just practice to see which one works for you. 👍

[Schmeg82]

1 minute ago, LostInCanada said:

@Schmeg82 liquid is more accurate and less time consuming. Crushing is harder than just cutting and filing off a bit. You have time so I would just practice to see which one works for you. 👍

I just don’t want to have a reaction from the liquid as others have.  That’s why I opted to crush and weigh mine,

.

[LostInCanada]

4 minutes ago, Schmeg82 said:

reaction from the liquid

If you make your own liquid and do the transition you won't. Making your own liquid is great because you can use the pills from your same manufacturer. 

The problem is using the liquid manufactured by a different company and the medium they use to preserve it. 

[Schmeg82]

2 minutes ago, LostInCanada said:

If you make your own liquid and do the transition you won't. Making your own liquid is great because you can use the pills from your same manufacturer. 

The problem is using the liquid manufactured by a different company and the medium they use to preserve it. 

Okay I see what you’re saying now

[Schmeg82]

3 hours ago, Schmeg82 said:

Okay I see what you’re saying now

I will more then likely have someone come over and help me that is very smart (I’m book smart believe it or not) but I do get easily confused (adhd) so I want to make sure I’m doing it correctly 

[LostInCanada]

Great idea. Accuracy and safety is best. 

Here are a couple links to look over:

 

 

 

[LostInCanada]

From the Maudsley Guide page 255

 

When making an liquid of paroxetine from pills:

 

Off-label options: Guidelines for people who cannot swallow tablets (e.g. the NEWT guidelines in the UK,'* NHS pharmaceutical guidance!’ and similar US guidance!*) suggest that immediate release forms of paroxetine tablets can be dispersed in water for administration."* This is an off-label use.'* Water could be added to a 20mg tablet to make up a 40mL suspension (concentration 0.5mg/mL). Dispersal and suspension of the tablet may take some time. Suspended particles are probably tablet excipients as paroxetine should fully dissolve at this concentration. The tablet may be crushed with a spoon or pestle and mortar before mixing with water to speed up this process.!*+!6 The suspension will have a bitter taste and a local anaesthetic effect on the mouth.'* The suspension should be shaken vigorously before use. As its stability cannot be assured it should be consumed immediately, and any unused suspension discarded.

 

[Schmeg82]

Woke up today and had a long cry, I know I shouldn’t sit here and feel sorry for myself, that my situation could always be worse but I’ve lost so much of my life the last 6 months and it’s really starting to wear on me.  I just pray for a little relief especially with my vision issues so I can at least go back to work or do more things without getting sick, dizzy and disoriented.  Each day I wonder if taking the medication is making my eyes even worse or if this is still the initial withdrawal.  It’s hard to tell since it’s gotten so much worse.  Then I fear the symptoms getting even worse when I start to taper.  All these thoughts ruminate and make me depressed.  
 

I have an hour chat with a withdrawal coach today, I hope he helps give me some peace and clarity.  

[Sebas]

On 7/10/2024 at 12:09 AM, LostInCanada said:

The suspension will have a bitter taste and a local anaesthetic effect on the mouth

You can fix this by adding just a little bit of orange/strawberry Juice

 

On 7/10/2024 at 4:19 PM, Schmeg82 said:

I’ve lost so much of my life the last 6 months

Yes it's definitely hard but remember most of us have been riding waves for years. You took the shortcut.

 

On 7/9/2024 at 7:34 PM, LostInCanada said:

the Brassmonkey slide method is even gentler. 1.25% each week for 4 weeks and then a 2 week hold

Agree, my last weekly drop (yesterday actually) was in the same range (1 to 1.5%). Just keep these weekly drops small and average around 5%/month. Or take 5 weeks at 1% if you feel you should take smaller steps. I plan these cuts towards end of working week.

 

You will need a dark amber glass jar for proper storage, avoid plastic.

 

Regarding current wd. Holding generally is the best thing for upset CNS. There will be other daily influences though which may upset wd. Be aware of what you consume (eat/drink/supplements), inhale (f.e. perfume, cleaning agent) and put on your skin (f.e. cosmetics, oils). The less the better.

 

Bye Sebas

[Schmeg82]

4 hours ago, Sebas said:

You can fix this by adding just a little bit of orange/strawberry Juice

 

Yes it's definitely hard but remember most of us have been riding waves for years. You took the shortcut.

 

Agree, my last weekly drop (yesterday actually) was in the same range (1 to 1.5%). Just keep these weekly drops small and average around 5%/month. Or take 5 weeks at 1% if you feel you should take smaller steps. I plan these cuts towards end of working week.

 

You will need a dark amber glass jar for proper storage, avoid plastic.

 

Regarding current wd. Holding generally is the best thing for upset CNS. There will be other daily influences though which may upset wd. Be aware of what you consume (eat/drink/supplements), inhale (f.e. perfume, cleaning agent) and put on your skin (f.e. cosmetics, oils). The less the better.

 

Bye Sebas

Thank you, I do not plan on dropping any time soon but do want to get my ducks in a row for when I’m ready to!  I’ve actually had a few good days in a row, mostly my mood & energy levels have been better.  I have been able to spend more time at my barn tending to horses band stalls without feeling super unwell.  I only had a few dizzy spells that didn’t last super long yesterday.  I’m not quite as weak/lethargic as I’ve been either.  I’ve also been way more relaxed at home and before bed which is usually when I’m the worst. 
 

my eye flashes actually got worse the last few days though which is strange because other things are better.  I’m trying to ignore my eyes the best I can which is hard because constantly see it, but I’m doing a good job redirecting my focus.  
 

I was able to walk my dogs again last night which I hadn’t done in over a week and they were so happy.  I’ve been spending more time sitting outside than inside.  
 

I'm really happy some things have improved and I’ve had small windows throughout the days, I just wish my vision would calm down, that seems to be worse again.  
 

Thanks again 

[Sebas]

31 minutes ago, Schmeg82 said:

my eye flashes actually got worse the last few days though which is strange because other things are better

Evaluate if there's a pattern that causes these vision changes. Maybe a source shortly before that upsets serotonine levels (which are related to pupil function). Keep notes for yourself. Good to read you're making mental and physiological progress.

[Schmeg82]

9 minutes ago, Sebas said:

Evaluate if there's a pattern that causes these vision changes. Maybe a source shortly before that upsets serotonine levels (which are related to pupil function). Keep notes for yourself. Good to read you're making mental and physiological progress.

I’ve been journaling everything and my symptoms, only thing different is my menstrual cycle this time, I’ll have to go back and read last month and see if it got worse then too.  I’m taking way more detailed notes now then I was before though.

[Schmeg82]

Had another question about timing of taking my med.

 

i take my Paxil 10mg at 8:30am every morning, i tend to feel better from mid-late morning until 4/5pm, this is when my symptoms typically get worse (more tremors, agitation, raciness and anxiety). Is this because of the timing of my med, just classic withdrawal no rhyme or reason, or from wearing myself out during the day?  (Even if I don’t do anything I usually feel worse in pm) 

[LostInCanada]

I don't think there is rhyme or reason. I take mine at 9 am and mornings can be rough. Evening usually is good for me. It must be an individual thing. ♥️

[Schmeg82]

35 minutes ago, LostInCanada said:

I don't think there is rhyme or reason. I take mine at 9 am and mornings can be rough. Evening usually is good for me. It must be an individual thing. ♥️

That’s what I’m thinking, most evenings can be rough for me, I feel my best during the late am and day time.  Just kind of seeing a pattern of symptoms now.  Thank you 

[AAOffZ]

I take mine at 10 pm. And my best time of day is usually 5-11 pm. Mornings from 6 am-on are the worst and sometimes afternoon. Doesn’t seem to have any baring on when I take it. 

[Schmeg82]

30 minutes ago, AAOffZ said:

I take mine at 10 pm. And my best time of day is usually 5-11 pm. Mornings from 6 am-on are the worst and sometimes afternoon. Doesn’t seem to have any baring on when I take it. 

Thanks for answering, was just wondering if there may be any correlation! 

[Schmeg82]

Yesterday evening I got a bit racy/anxious and some chest discomfort/tightness which comes and goes - more so when I lay down.  I walked the horses pasture (roughly 10 acres) and felt much better.  Still shaky but better, then I went home and walked the dogs, I had two small dizzy spells during the walk but pushed through.  My eyes felt strained and I was getting a headache but I slept it off last night.  (After my walk and shower in bed I felt more relaxed finally.)

Another  morning feeling pretty relaxed and not stressing about leaving the house and having to go feed horses (usually I would be shaky/jittery and worried about leaving). Had a good nights sleep, but still extremely tired.  Cleaned all 6 horses stalls today (only 3 are mine but we have a boarding barn) changed out waters, hay and set their feed, took 45 mins and everything out of me, it was very hot and humid already.  No bad dizzy spells this morning, eyes are still flashing bad though and light sensitivity is at its worst.  
ate a banana and drank a ton of water.  Just tired now but not as lethargic as I was last week.

 

came home, showered and made 3 eggs and an avocado, I was super hungry.  Now just relaxing waiting on Kroger delivery and may try and take a nap in a little bit.

[LostInCanada]

@Schmeg82 sounds like you are turning a corner. Very positive. ♥️

[Schmeg82]

17 minutes ago, LostInCanada said:

@Schmeg82 sounds like you are turning a corner. Very positive. ♥️

Not sure if I’m turning a corner or just pushing through at this point, but I really hope so! Thank you 

[LostInCanada]

8 minutes ago, Schmeg82 said:

I really hope so!

Me too. It's well deserved by now. 💯🙏♥️

[Catwoman73]

Hi @Schmeg82- just catching up after a brief vacation.  How are you this morning?  I'm very hopeful that you're getting into a nice window!

 

I take my meds at 7pm, and feel my best in the evening.  I do think there is a genetic component to when we are typically at our best- I did get genetic analysis done a few years back, and it did say that I was more likely to be a night person.  It does seem to be true, regardless of the time of day I take my medication. 

[Schmeg82]

Just now, Catwoman73 said:

Hi @Schmeg82- just catching up after a brief vacation.  How are you this morning?  I'm very hopeful that you're getting into a nice window!

 

I take my meds at 7pm, and feel my best in the evening.  I do think there is a genetic component to when we are typically at our best- I did get genetic analysis done a few years back, and it did say that I was more likely to be a night person.  It does seem to be true, regardless of the time of day I take my medication. 

Thank you for checking on me, I’m struggling again.  Had a great morning yesterday then crashed fast and the whole rest of the day was awful.  This morning wasn’t good either, but I managed to feed horses and clean all the stalls and do barn chores, was very light headed and weak again.  I’m sitting in my backyard trying to get fresh air and sun but I still feel awful.  I’m hoping this is the worst before it gets better but not getting my hopes up.  
 

I hope you’re doing well.

[Schmeg82]

23 hours ago, LostInCanada said:

Me too. It's well deserved by now. 💯🙏♥️

Thank you, I pray every day for some relief.  Or that I may get somewhat of my normal life back, even just a smidge 😔

[Schmeg82]

Welp, another bad morning for me.  I was very tired but needed to feed my horses, when I feed I get all the barn chores done (clean all 6 stalls, waters, fill hay bags, set feed ect) takes about 45 minutes.  It was very hot and humid today and I was struggling.  Didn’t get as many dizzy spells, felt a little off balance but was okay until I got home.  When I got home my legs felt like bricks and I felt like I could possibly pass out.  I was SO gassed.  Taking a shower was a struggle, I got out and got in my towel and just cried, and cried and cried.  These feelings are awful, feeling so weak and helpless.  I know I probably did too much but I wanted to get it all done.  These are normally simple tasks for me and now it takes everything out of me.  
 

then of course I go into this downward spiral of how my life sucks, this is never going to end, ect.  
 

I have a couple friends on the same timeline as me as far as WD and reinstating that are also struggling hard.  I have read a lot on forums and FB where people say months 6-9 can be the worst in withdrawal and I’m in month 7, is there any specific reason for this? I seem to just be getting worse as time goes by.  😔

[ShantyO7]

16 hours ago, Schmeg82 said:

then of course I go into this downward spiral of how my life sucks, this is never going to end, ect.

Yep, I have a tendency to do this, too, when I'm having a hard time. It's so hard to imagine things getting better and back to normal when you've felt SO crappy for SO long!

[Schmeg82]

Yesterday evening was rough, had a lot of chemical anxiety, shaky/racy, trying to have a conversation with someone in my barn and it was hard to focus, my eyes & brain felt very overwhelmed and I just wanted to get in my truck and run home.  After I showered and ate (chicken & veggies) I felt better, more relaxed, I laid in bed and was able to focus on TV until about 10pm.  I did read a lot yesterday (the book “the waiting room” by Jennifer S), I know a lot of you have probably read this, if not you should, she went through two bad medication injuries.  I was happy I was able to focus on reading for a while, I read 100 pages yesterday.  
 

this morning I was very very tired, I didn’t want to wake up but the animals have to be fed.  I was much more careful doing chores this morning and didn’t push myself as hard, I did better then yesterday.  I’m still fatigued and light headed, my eyes can’t focus as they’re flashing bad still but I try and ignore it.

 

i ate a banana so far today - also someone told me not to eat bananas as they have 5HTP in them? This will be devestating to me because I eat one every day.  Has anyone heard of this, please don’t take my bananas away 🍌 😔

[ShantyO7]

7 minutes ago, Schmeg82 said:

please don’t take my bananas away 🍌

Only thing I've heard about bananas (thanks Gwen Stefani for helping me remember how to spell that 😂) is that they are high in histamine so you shouldn't have them if you are following a low histamine diet...

[Sebas]

Bananas contain tryptofaan which is an amico acid related tot serotonine function that you should definitely avoid with ssri (sorry, they took mine away too ) had too laugh though.

 

Perhaps you also had one yesterday late afternoon? Cause there has been something upsetting your wd since afternoon-evening period. Mostly this drags on until next day given effect of new ssri dosage.

 

Been there literally hundreds of times.

 

Good news however is that like me you can switch from bananas to kanzi apples (there are differences between different species) and strawberries. 

 

Bye Sebas 🍌🍓🍎

[Schmeg82]

2 minutes ago, Sebas said:

Bananas contain tryptofaan which is an amico acid related tot serotonine function that you should definitely avoid with ssri (sorry, they took mine away too ) had too laugh though.

 

Perhaps you ate on yesterday during the afternoon? Cause there has been something upsetting your wd since afternoon-evening period.

Mostly this drags on until next day.

 

Been there literally hundreds of times.

 

Good news however is that like me you can switch from bananas to kanzi apples and strawberries. 

 

Bye Sebas 🍌

😭😭😭😭 lord help me, no more bananas.  I typically eat them in the mornings.  I guess I’ll get some apples then, I’m not a big strawberry fan. (Only covered in whipped cream and with angel food cake 🤤)  

[Sebas]

31 minutes ago, Schmeg82 said:

I read 100 pages yesterday

Sometimes withdrawal sometimes occurs in sort of hyperactivity/adhd status. Then the next day we tend to feel tired, strange isn't it? 😂

 

Bye Sebas