Theopold: 1 Month off Sertraline - Increasing Withdrawal Symptoms

May 21

18 hours ago, Ariel said:

Here's what comes up when I do a sitewide search for the phrase "night sweats"

(spoiler alert: 34 pages)

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/search/?q="night sweats"&quick=1&updated_after=any&sortby=relevancy

Thanks for the "spoiler alert", lol. I WILL try to make my way through all of these posts, but it's going to take a while!!

May 21

Hi @Libby123,

Thanks for checking in! I'm glad to know you are getting at least some "reasonable" nights. And, yes, it's the "uncertainty" that's often the most difficult. In reference to which...Don't know if you're familiar with it, but I've been reading Claire Weekes' book, "Self-Help for Your Nerves" right before bed the last few nights, and even though it isn't specifically addressing AD withdrawal symptoms, it's actually helped me a lot.

Specifically, the part of her "method" relating to just...accepting. Well, this and "turning in to" as opposed to "turning away from", the withdrawal symptoms, as well as the "fear of fear" they can create. Essentially, her writing has been helping me to better manage the uncertainty by facing it head on...I may, or I may not, have insomnia tonight, but either way I've just got to accept what comes, and face the fear, and the irrational thoughts - the "what-if's" - head on. As she points out, however, I don't mean "head on" in terms of "fighting" these things, just accepting. Anyway, lol...something to look into if you think it might help! And, keep on checking in, please!!

May 22

On 5/21/2024 at 6:12 AM, theopold said:

Thanks for the "spoiler alert", lol. I WILL try to make my way through all of these posts, but it's going to take a while!!

Hi @theopold

The point of that post was not to suggest that you read through all 34 pages, but to

a) demonstrate how to do a search (bc in your previous post you said you'd tried searching the site and hadn't come up with much)

b) show you how common a symptom "night sweat" is

But if you want to read through everything, by all means, have a go!

Hope you're getting moments of relief here and there.

Healing vibes <3

May 23

Hi @Ariel,

7 hours ago, Ariel said:

Hi @theopold

The point of that post was not to suggest that you read through all 34 pages, but to

a) demonstrate how to do a search (bc in your previous post you said you'd tried searching the site and hadn't come up with much)

Actually, just to clarify...what I said previously was, "I did a search in the 'symptoms and self-care' section, but I didn't find any posts similar to what I was curious about?". Point being, I found posts in that section on night sweats, but they did not seem entirely similar to what I was - and am - experiencing, hence the question I subsequently posted. Regardless, I appreciate your follow up, and as always, your kind thoughtfulness ☺️

May 23

Time for another update, if only for the purpose of my own reflection - now, and also looking back in future. I've actually been sleeping fairly well, surprisingly. And, while it's a little too soon to say for sure, it feels like my GI issues are easing up a little bit in just the last day or so? I guess if nothing else, it can be said that yesterday, at least, my GI issues were not as noticeable. And so, if they go back to where they were previously - today, tomorrow, etc. - at least I can say I had a physical symptom "window" yesterday, haha?

So, those would be the "positive" developments. On the other side of things...I woke up yesterday with significant anxiety, which lasted most of the morning. Followed in the early afternoon by a challenging bout of depression...yaaaay! Went out and did some errands to "distract" myself, and the late afternoon was a little better. The real killer, though, was in the evening. Long story short, I was reading about another common withdrawal symptom, and subsequently started obsessing over "what if" I started to experience that symptom also? And, lo and behold, I did, to a certain extent, start to give myself that symptom.

And, dear god, it is so frustrating to have an experience like that!! It generates so many reactions...fear, anxiety, anger, frustration, sadness, etc, etc. That said, I did subsequently just try to turn towards, accept, surrender to, the obsessive thoughts and the newly-manifested symptom last night. And, it DID work. For whatever reason, after relaxing into a bit of a meditative state, I was essentially able to let go of the obsessive thoughts, and for the most part that self-induced symptom faded. I say, "for whatever reason" because while I do understand that the act of relaxing into and turning towards the anxiety/fear/obsession is the path to "eventual" resolution, when it happens on relatively short notice like it did last night, it almost seems like "magic" or something, lol.

Anyway, I actually slept really well last night after that. However, I woke up this morning feeling all kinds of anxious, and the obsession with that "new" symptom was back inside my head, as well as yet ANOTHER potential - new - withdrawal symptom to possibly start obsessing over as well. So, yeah, a scary morning, and depressingly frustrating as well. All that said, I DO know it WILL pass. It's nevertheless a little sad, I guess, to know that I have to continue to "walk this walk" until the time where I just don't have to any more - meaning, it is what it is...until it isn't. I could definitely use a good cry over this state of affairs, but I'm trying to work on my continued "acceptance" right now, lol. That's a bit of a joke, BTW. I do know it's ok to let the emotions flow sometimes

Onward and upward, into the new day, eh? Going to be some more ups and downs today, for sure, but...whatever the day brings, it's still one more day closer to "healed". Hard to believe that's actually true sometimes, I know, but one day soon it just will be...

May 23

10 hours ago, theopold said:

I've actually been sleeping fairly well, surprisingly. And, while it's a little too soon to say for sure, it feels like my GI issues are easing up a little bit in just the last day or so? I guess if nothing else, it can be said that yesterday, at least, my GI issues were not as noticeable. And so, if they go back to where they were previously - today, tomorrow, etc. - at least I can say I had a physical symptom "window" yesterday, haha?

Glad to hear your sleep is okay. Makes such a difference in our experience of the day-to-day, and also support healing. Very good sign.

And yes, symptom windows are a real thing. Lovely you're getting some relief on the GI front (and back ) at the moment.

10 hours ago, theopold said:

And, dear god, it is so frustrating to have an experience like that!! It generates so many reactions...fear, anxiety, anger, frustration, sadness, etc, etc. That said, I did subsequently just try to turn towards, accept, surrender to, the obsessive thoughts and the newly-manifested symptom last night. And, it DID work. For whatever reason, after relaxing into a bit of a meditative state, I was essentially able to let go of the obsessive thoughts, and for the most part that self-induced symptom faded. I say, "for whatever reason" because while I do understand that the act of relaxing into and turning towards the anxiety/fear/obsession is the path to "eventual" resolution, when it happens on relatively short notice like it did last night, it almost seems like "magic" or something, lol.

This is awesome @theopold Give yourself so much credit!

You are learning and practicing non-drug coping techniques such as distracting with errands and acceptance/surrender. Excellent work!

10 hours ago, theopold said:

All that said, I DO know it WILL pass. It's nevertheless a little sad, I guess, to know that I have to continue to "walk this walk" until the time where I just don't have to any more - meaning, it is what it is...until it isn't. I could definitely use a good cry over this state of affairs, but I'm trying to work on my continued "acceptance" right now, lol. That's a bit of a joke, BTW. I do know it's ok to let the emotions flow sometimes

I understand feeling sad. It totally sucks we have to go through this. It's fair and legitimate to feel any and all emotions in response to the iatrogenic injury we experience. To lose months and years of our lives to iatrogenic illness, to have had our trust betrayed by medical authorities we trusted -- that is harm and trauma, and our emotional response(s) is/are valid. We all go through stages of grief on this journey, to grieve is integral to healing.

I know you write you're joking, I hear you. At the same time you've got a pesky little "but" in there, so I just want to emphasize that acceptance and feeling our feelings are not opposites -- they are actually prerequisites for each other and closely linked. Feeling is healing, we have to feel our feelings to heal. That's how emotions move through us and get processed. And we can only truly feel what there is to feel when we accept what is. Cry as much as you want and need!

Sending you a big hug, theopold (if you like hugs; if not, how about a high five and healing vibes?)

You are doing beautifully! This may sound strange but -- I feel proud of you.

Keep going, you got this <3

May 24

12 hours ago, Ariel said:

Sending you a big hug, theopold (if you like hugs; if not, how about a high five and healing vibes?)

You are doing beautifully! This may sound strange but -- I feel proud of you.

Keep going, you got this ❤️

This may sound strange, but...I adore you, @Ariel And, yes, I like hugs, lol. Please feel free to send me great big hugs whenever the urge hits you - hopefully very frequently, and also...often! 🤭

May 26

Time for another update...Up until last night, I've basically been doing ok. Been dealing with various obsessive thoughts, but it was manageable, overall. I guess I'd characterize it as intermittent windows with occasional symptoms? Exception to that would be waking up during the night on one or two occasions (plus yesterday morning) with some significant anxiety. On those couple of occasions, it felt more like a straight up honest "wave", although the duration wasn't too long.

And then...last night. Not sure what happened? I followed the normal sleep hygiene routine I've been using for a while now, but...didn't sleep a wink last night. Which means, today will be a hellish nightmare, of course. And, OF COURSE, I've already started obsessing over whether or not I'll sleep TONIGHT!! I will say, however, that I "handled" the lack of sleep better last night - during most of the actual night, that is. For the most part, I was able to avoid the "second" fear, but it's still pretty frightening and deeply unsettling...

And, believe me, I DO understand that there doesn't need to be a specific reason for last night, per se. It's just the up and down nature of withdrawal - I get that. But...I think other folks might agree(?) that having some "explanation" for last night to sort of lean on would help me a little bit to not obsess quite as much about what's going to happen tonight? And also, it must be said...when you have waves, or better days, it's pretty much soul crushing to go back into a night like last night. And scary, and frustrating, and sad...and terribly, terribly lonely. Sigh.

May 26

Hi @theopold

15 hours ago, theopold said:

I will say, however, that I "handled" the lack of sleep better last night - during most of the actual night, that is. For the most part, I was able to avoid the "second" fear, but it's still pretty frightening and deeply unsettling...

It sounds like you're doing an excellent job of handling what WD is throwing at you. That's pretty much the best one can hope to do, and you're doing it.

That being said, I totally get that this is a very both-and kind of experience. You're managing things as well as possible, and it sucks that you're in this position. Both are true and valid.

15 hours ago, theopold said:

And scary, and frustrating, and sad...and terribly, terribly lonely. Sigh.

Sometimes I tell myself, "Okay, the worst thing that can happen is that you have a feeling." I try to give myself pep talks about how in my life I've felt just about every emotion there is to feel, and then some, and I've survived them all. Sometimes this self-talk is reassuring, sometimes it falls short, but the data behind it is solid. I have very, very rarely been in any actual danger, and even then the scariest part of it was the experience of fear, not the thing itself. Interesting, eh? I'm no expert, I cannot claim to have mastered the fear of fear. Gotta hand it to WD, though, it's boot camp and we get our reps in for sure.

I'm sorry you've been feeling lonely. I know how hard that can be. Especially neuro-loneliness, when it's magnified and warped through that WD lens, can feel brutal.

I often feel lonely, and when I do there are two things I aim for (or two versions of the same thing):

a) connection with myself, by which I mean really getting in there and feeling my feelings, giving myself all the love and compassion and kindness, embracing my inner child and all the wounded parts of me going way back to the earliest incidents of feeling lonely when I was little, and feeling it all, loving myself through all of it;

b) connection with others, however that may be available at the time, be it online or in the supermarket checkout line or calling a 24/7 crisis hotline (do you have those where you live?) or even just riding the bus and making eye contact with strangers, walking in the park and chatting up friendly dogs and their humans, it really doesn't matter as long as I'm making an effort to connect with the outside world in some way.

I can't claim this to be a cure for loneliness, but it is, at the very least, a distraction and gets my mind off the worst of it. I have become quite intimate with loneliness over the course of these WD years, as I've been significantly isolated and alone with myself and WD brain, which helpfully surfaces every unpleasant experience/memory ever and serves it up in steady trauma rotation. Loneliness is a throughline. At times I'm able to befriend it and accept it as an integral part of my personal make-up, how I move through the world (because reasons), and I've grown to be okay with it. Which brings me full circle to that thing about the worst thing that can happen is feeling a feeling -- and I've learned how to not fear loneliness as much as I used to, as I've learned to not fear pain, discomfort, etc. Loneliness may hurt, and also it can't hurt me. Both and.

WD (which seems to go on and on and last forever) is a lesson in everything being temporary and constantly in flux. We decry this uncertainty and mutability when we move from a window to a wave, and rejoice in it when we move from a wave to a window. The bottom line is, everything moves and shifts, including symptoms, sensations, emotions. As you wrote:

15 hours ago, theopold said:

It's just the up and down nature of withdrawal

Spiraling in, spiraling out. Nature's oscillations. For the time being, chemically enhanced and thus artificially altered and amplified -- and this too shall pass.

I don't have any big point or higher wisdom to offer you, theopold. I can relate to what you describe, and i know it's hard. And also, you're doing a great job. Truly.

Keep going. Distract.

Thinking of you and sending healing vibes <3

May 27

Hi @Ariel

Thanks for your message. I hope you don't mind if I say it...I was crying as I read it. As always, I appreciate your kind, thoughtful, and intelligent comments. And, I definitely needed it because last night was very bad. I had insomnia again the entire night, after basically obsessing over it pretty much the entire day yesterday as well.

The scariest part is that I'm running out of strategies. I'm doing a full sleep hygiene routine, I'm practicing CBT, I continue taking melatonin, I get out of bed and read after 20-30 minutes of tossing and turning, I watch TV, I try to meditate, I listen to white noise, I wear a sleep mask, practice deep breathing, etc, etc. And, I KNOW it's the fear of fear that's causing this, but...I just can't beat it.

I'm very frightened. And, emotionally I'm a complete wreck. I'm going to do a search here after I post this message, in hopes that I can find some reassurance in terms of how long someone can go without sleep before it becomes very dangerous. Either way, another sleepless night and I fear I will soon no longer be able to function effectively.

Which I guess leads me to an actual question...I HAVE to sleep, or I will end up at the hospital, and we all know where that leads - drugs, drugs, and more drugs. That said, however, is there anything I can self-medicate with on a very limited basis - a benzo, for example - to just buy myself a little time to maybe stabilize a bit? Or is that an absolutely horrible idea?? And yes, I am aware of the fact that taking any drug right now harkens back to the earlier discussion about reinstating the AD, and my previous stance on that.

Obviously, all anyone here can do is to offer an opinion...unless, there's someone here who's actually done something like that and can speak from experience? It's NOT something I want to do, and believe me, I'm working on non-drug coping skills in every way I possibly can but...as I mentioned at the top of this post, it's getting pretty bad.

May 27

Hi @theopold

Insomnia stinks.

It's also one of the most common WD symptoms.

In other words: you may be dealing with sleep issues for a while.

AND you are going to be okay.

You will not die from insomnia. The body will get rest when it can.

Have you heard of microsleeps? Our bodies sneak sleep without us even realizing it.

Numerous sleep studies have shown that we are actually very bad at judging whether or not we have slept, and how much.

Have a look at Dan998's success story.

Dan struggled with insomnia (and dread, terror, loneliness, among other things) throughout WD and went on to heal and sleep normally.

If you read through the posts in his success story thread, Dan shares his sleep tips further down.

12 hours ago, theopold said:

I'm very frightened. And, emotionally I'm a complete wreck. I'm going to do a search here after I post this message, in hopes that I can find some reassurance in terms of how long someone can go without sleep before it becomes very dangerous. Either way, another sleepless night and I fear I will soon no longer be able to function effectively.

It is not dangerous, theopold. Not sleeping can be uncomfortable, but it's not a threat.

Don't drive, don't operate heavy machinery, don't put yourself in otherwise precarious situations when you are underslept.

As long as you practice common sense with that, you'll be fine.

You may feel off, tired, slow, grumpy, neuro-emotions all over the place -- and you'll still be fine.

You mention being able to "function effectively". What are you referring to? Do you have work duties? Other obligations?

Are you under external pressure to perform at a high standard (whatever that means to you)?

12 hours ago, theopold said:

Which I guess leads me to an actual question...I HAVE to sleep, or I will end up at the hospital, and we all know where that leads - drugs, drugs, and more drugs.

No. This is not inevitable. You have agency in the matter.

If you don't want to go to the hospital, it's your choice -- don't go to the hospital.

If you don't want to be drugged, don't go to the hospital, and stay away from drugs.

This is a negative thought loop, most likely driven by WD-induced neuro-emotion, possibly in combination with some unhelpful pre-existing cognitive habits.

(The good news about cognitive habits is that they are entirely changeable, and we can train our brains to think in ways that better serve us.)

Please review the topic on Dealing With Emotional Spirals.

12 hours ago, theopold said:

That said, however, is there anything I can self-medicate with on a very limited basis - a benzo, for example - to just buy myself a little time to maybe stabilize a bit? Or is that an absolutely horrible idea?? And yes, I am aware of the fact that taking any drug right now harkens back to the earlier discussion about reinstating the AD, and my previous stance on that.

Bad idea, theopold.

And I don't think this is what your true self wants, I think it's just the panic talking.

You've made it clear you want to stay away from drugs. You made your choice, and I support you in that.

So: absolutely horrible idea.

What you need to work on is managing your reaction(s) to suboptimal sleep.

Note that this is not the same as Fixing Sleep.

It's about exploring:

Okay, sleep might be spotty for a while, not much I can do about that, just how it is. Now what?

How can I make this experience of poor sleep easier on myself?

I have seen what you are capable of and you are 100% qualified for this challenge.

You can do this.

Love,

Ariel

May 27

On 5/18/2024 at 11:25 PM, theopold said:

But, inevitably, and always, you realize that, yes, you WILL go on, you WILL keep fighting, because this WILL get better.

Yes! So needed to hear this right now!

May 28

18 hours ago, ShantyO7 said:

Yes! So needed to hear this right now!

Hi @ShantyO7

Thanks for sharing your feedback. And I'm glad it helped - in large part, I feel, because it's absolutely true! We WILL get through this!!

May 28

23 hours ago, Ariel said:

You will not die from insomnia. The body will get rest when it can.

Have you heard of microsleeps? Our bodies sneak sleep without us even realizing it.

Numerous sleep studies have shown that we are actually very bad at judging whether or not we have slept, and how much.

Have a look at Dan998's success story.

Dan struggled with insomnia (and dread, terror, loneliness, among other things) throughout WD and went on to heal and sleep normally.

If you read through the posts in his success story thread, Dan shares his sleep tips further down.

Hi @Ariel,

It's getting to be one of those things I keep repeating to you, lol, but...I SO needed to hear this last night! And, the same can be said for the link to Dan's story. It feels a little silly sometimes (after the fact, obviously) in terms of what gets one's anxiety going, but I really did just need to be reminded that...I will not die from insomnia!!

May 28

23 hours ago, Ariel said:

You mention being able to "function effectively". What are you referring to? Do you have work duties? Other obligations?

Are you under external pressure to perform at a high standard (whatever that means to you)?

Honestly...nothing terribly challenging, @Ariel I was just "in the moment" as it were, and thinking about things like...taking care of my dogs, showering, eating, daily chores, etc. Just doing all that normal life "stuff" I may well never take for granted again after this whole experience, lol.

May 28

23 hours ago, Ariel said:

Bad idea, theopold.

And I don't think this is what your true self wants, I think it's just the panic talking.

You've made it clear you want to stay away from drugs. You made your choice, and I support you in that.

So: absolutely horrible idea.

What you need to work on is managing your reaction(s) to suboptimal sleep.

Note that this is not the same as Fixing Sleep.

It's about exploring:

Okay, sleep might be spotty for a while, not much I can do about that, just how it is. Now what?

How can I make this experience of poor sleep easier on myself?

Spot on, in terms of your first comment here, and as always, great advice in terms of the second comment, @Ariel In terms of my comment about taking drugs, I was obviously "in the moment" again. That would just not be a good idea, and more importantly, NOT what I want for myself any more. And yes, about managing reactions...gotta be realistic with myself, accept what it is right now, and just...move forward!

Bottom line, you're a true angel, Ariel. Love - and adore - you too!

May 29

Hi @theopold

On 5/28/2024 at 4:33 PM, theopold said:

In terms of my comment about taking drugs, I was obviously "in the moment" again. That would just not be a good idea, and more importantly, NOT what I want for myself any more. And yes, about managing reactions...gotta be realistic with myself, accept what it is right now, and just...move forward!

Good. Glad to hear it.

YES to accepting and moving forward!

And -- I do understand. PAWS has had me underslept for years, and I have to say, insomnia and gut issues, when they are at their worst, are probably the two WD symptoms that are most likely to start me fantasizing about a magic pill quick fix. I can't tell you how many times I have prayed, "Please please please please just let me sleep and poop normally!" (and I'm not even going to add a haha or an lol because this is serious business) So I totally get it.

One thing that I find helpful when I feel so miserable and desperate is to tell myself, "Okay, fine -- just give it till tomorrow, and then you can revisit the idea of taking a drug."

And the day/night after that, I wait until tomorrow. And tomorrow. And tomorrow. And the great thing about that is, if you only ever plan to do something tomorrow, you'll never do it.

It's the Power of Not-Now!

In other words, I enlist procrastination as my friend and ally. Procrastination gets a bad rap, when sometimes it's very useful! I have successfully consistently put off the decision to re-medicate myself countless times over the years, and when the urge/wave passes, I'm always grateful to my past self for having stayed the course.

That's another technique I use -- honoring the decision of past self to no longer take drugs, and then going the distance in honor of future self. Sometimes it makes me laugh, when I'm writhing in discomfort/pain, to yell in full grumpiness: "F*** you, future self, I love you, look what I'm putting myself for YOU!!!!"

There's no other way that I know of, really. We just gotta love ourselves through this, and love each other through, and we'll get there.

Look at us, we're doing it!

May 30

22 hours ago, Ariel said:

I can't tell you how many times I have prayed, "Please please please please just let me sleep and poop normally!" (and I'm not even going to add a haha or an lol because this is serious business) So I totally get it.

I don't know, @Ariel I think an "lol" might still well be appropriate here, haha If for no other reason than the fact that your statement reminds one of the utter absurdity of life sometimes. Seriously, though...I'm right there with you on the sleep and stomach thing, however. But, hey, I've decided to just think of these issues as really, really, super helpful motivators towards getting better at mastering non-drug coping mechanisms...lol.

May 30

22 hours ago, Ariel said:

That's another technique I use -- honoring the decision of past self to no longer take drugs, and then going the distance in honor of future self. Sometimes it makes me laugh, when I'm writhing in discomfort/pain, to yell in full grumpiness: "F*** you, future self, I love you, look what I'm putting myself for YOU!!!!"

I was terribly conflicted when I read this remark, @Ariel. On the one hand, I found myself smiling as I pictured your "current self" courageously thinking these thoughts, but on the other hand it also saddened me to think of you "writhing in discomfort/pain". I then decided to resolve this little emotional dilemma by just thinking about the day that will surely come wherein "future you" is sleeping soundly through the night in a very unremarkable and totally normal way! I also then proceeded to give myself a little bit of a smile by thinking about how much cruel fun it would be to crank call "future you" in the middle of the night and keep interrupting that perfect sleep of hers...

May 30

22 hours ago, Ariel said:

There's no other way that I know of, really. We just gotta love ourselves through this, and love each other through, and we'll get there.

Gonna get all sci-fi nerdy on your here, @Ariel: THIS IS THE WAY

May 30

59 minutes ago, theopold said:

Gonna get all sci-fi nerdy on your here, @Ariel: THIS IS THE WAY

@theopold

I had to google this!

Star Wars / Mandalorian reference?

You never know how your day's gonna go, this morning I wouldn't have predicted that later I'd be looking up something about fictional characters who adhere to a strict code of ethics that involves never taking off one's helmet!? (perhaps I stopped reading prematurely, before that began to make more sense)

1 hour ago, theopold said:

I don't know, @Ariel I think an "lol" might still well be appropriate here, haha If for no other reason than the fact that your statement reminds one of the utter absurdity of life sometimes. Seriously, though...I'm right there with you on the sleep and stomach thing, however. But, hey, I've decided to just think of these issues as really, really, super helpful motivators towards getting better at mastering non-drug coping mechanisms...lol.

I hear you on the motivation.

Sometimes I think, "If there weren't anything wrong, how would I ever learn anything?"

And I did have a laugh today about digestive issues when I was out walking my neighbor's dog. She delivered an absolutely stellar poo (the dog, not the neighbor), and I found myself simultaneously in awe and decidedly envious! As I picked up after her my mind was definitely like #goals

May 31

10 hours ago, Ariel said:

You never know how your day's gonna go, this morning I wouldn't have predicted that later I'd be looking up something about fictional characters who adhere to a strict code of ethics that involves never taking off one's helmet!? (perhaps I stopped reading prematurely, before that began to make more sense)

lol. It's kind of a "thing" for fans of that show, @Ariel It's become kind of a "stoic", or humorous, sarcastic, etc., catch all, if you will. For example, Question: "Hey, why is that guy wearing a purple frog on his head?" Answer: Because...THIS IS THE WAY 😜

May 31

10 hours ago, Ariel said:

And I did have a laugh today about digestive issues when I was out walking my neighbor's dog. She delivered an absolutely stellar poo (the dog, not the neighbor), and I found myself simultaneously in awe and decidedly envious! As I picked up after her my mind was definitely like #goals

Too funny, @Ariel As it happens, I have two (big) dogs and they serve me up those "stellar" poos daily! And, thanks for the clarification re: the dog, not the neighbor 😂

June 7

Thinking of you @theopold

How are you going?

I'm in a bit of a wave at the moment...

Care to engage in some Mutual Assured Distraction (a.k.a. MAD-ness)?

It's been a fortunate week, canine-wise. My neighbor's away so I got to walk her dog three times!

The abundance of cuddles and fluff has been most welcome, both amidst and despite PAWS (!) complaints.

It's gotten me out of the house and given me some semblance of purpose.

The dog in question is really extraordinarily lovely and affectionate.

We've even been practicing a few tricks, by which I mean the dog has been training me to give her treats on command.

I feel grateful for this dog-walking arrangement and relationship.

Tell me about your dogs?

Anything and everything is of interest.

Woof <3

Ariel

June 8

15 hours ago, Ariel said:

I'm in a bit of a wave at the moment...

Care to engage in some Mutual Assured Distraction (a.k.a. MAD-ness)?

Always, and any time, my dear @Ariel!

I am sorry to know you're having a bit of a wave right now 😔 And, I KNOW you know it already, but...each and every day, healing is happening!! As for the distraction part, lol, let's start with the boring stuff, shall we? For the most part, I've been doing "ok" the last few days. Been having intermittent periods of DP/DR, intrusive thoughts, obsessive thoughts, etc, but I can usually manage them by turning towards them vs away, yes? And, by doing this, I'm usually able to continue on with whatever it is I am doing, or should be doing, or alternately, "float" past them such that they don't last very long. So yeah, that part hasn't been too bad.

OTOH, I started taking a magnesium supplement about a week ago, and...maybe that wasn't such a great idea? About 3-4 days in - on a very small starting dose of 25mg - I started having increased GI issues. I stuck with it for another couple days, but the GI issues remained and so I've stopped taking it now. And so, two things there...One, it's sooooooo frustrating to never know for sure right now....was it the supplement, or was it me THINKING about taking the supplement, lol?? In other words, was it really affecting me, or was it all just my head? Second thing, I am now obsessing over my GI issues, such that my hyper-focus is making them considerably worse right now - of course! And, both the obsession, and the worsening GI issues, make me feel frustrated, angry, depressed, etc, etc.

And too, it's once again the same dilemma...Is it my obsessive thoughts that are making my GI issues worse right now, or...am I dying of cancer!!!!!! In terms of the latter, haha...as mentioned previously, I REALLY, REALLY don't want to go see a doctor about it because I KNOW how that will go...sigh. In theory, it would be GREAT to get the reassurance - no, there's nothing "physically" wrong with you - but, in practice, what I'll get is a bunch of palliative prescriptions, and recommended medical procedures. So yeah...bumming out about that - stuck between scylla and charybdis, as it were - and just hating on/beating up myself for not being "strong enough" to stop those negative, destructive, obsessive thoughts about my stomach problems right now. And yes, I know, that behavior is TOTALLY counterproductive...sigh. Bottom line, just waiting for maybe the side effects of trying the magnesium, if that's what it is, to subside, and/or for my mind to let go of it's latest "physical" obsession.

OK! Moving on from the "boring" stuff, lol...I've been a dog person all my life! I grew up with dogs, and I've had my own dogs all of my adult life - since graduating college. I currently own two purebred Boxers. Not sure if you know the breed at all? Boxers are great big, silly, child-like, clowns in terms of their personalities. To give you a small idea...their "puppy" stage can last for up to 3 years old! So....very sweet and adorable, yet quite the handful at times, lol. They tend to vary a bit in size, but...my big boy is about 40kg (90 pounds), and my "little" boy is about 34kg (75 pounds). Which translates to - because I KNOW you are dying to know - some pretty substantial poo's! 🤣 Which I personally pick up, each and every day..yaaay!!

Like any and all dogs, they are a great treasure, a great comfort, and a constant source of love and affection. I always say...there's a reason dog spelled backwards is "god". Admittedly, however, I AM a little biased in terms of this topic, obviously 😋 Speaking of "any and all" dogs...I also currently volunteer at a dog shelter. It's something I very much enjoy on it's own, obviously, but it's also a great source of distraction for me. I'm actually currently trying to find another potential volunteering activity of some type for that same reason - it's a great distraction. By way of additional context, I'm retired now, and as alluded to on a couple of other occasions, I'm single, I live alone, and for various reasons, I don't have a lot of support from my family these days. And while I do have a few friends, they're not really the type of friendships that I would call "close". And too, as I'm sure many of us here know...it's not always easy to talk with "casual" friends about what I'm going through right now. Net net...dogs, volunteering, keeping busy/distracted, etc, these are all good things for me right now.

Oh, one final thing to mention...I'm happy to report, I've actually been doing fairly well with sleep lately! For the last 7-10 days or so, I've consistently been getting about 6-ish hours of sleep a night. I've been able to do this because I've found a "system" that works pretty well for me. Although, I hesitate to explain said "system" much further right now because parts of it, at least, are maybe a little silly, lol? But, hey, it works! So yeah, really happy about that!! Even last night, for example, when I was heavily obsessing over my recent stomach issues, I was still able to fall asleep, and also get back to sleep reasonably soon after waking up 2-3 times during the night last night.

Ok, maybe that's enough "distraction" for this current message? Let me know how you're doing there, please, and..."woof" to you too!! 🐕😊❤️

June 8

So good to read you @theopold

8 hours ago, theopold said:

I am sorry to know you're having a bit of a wave right now 😔 And, I KNOW you know it already, but...each and every day, healing is happening!!

Thank you for your compassion. And it's always good to be reminded that healing is happening!

I like to play this game I made up called "Last Words" or "Epitaph". It consists of thinking of/about any phrase that would make for a funny "exit line"; the only point of the game is to make myself laugh. It always cheers me up. Sometimes I tell myself, "Famous last words: Healing is happening," or "Last words: Healing happened."

One of my favorite things about being alive is humor. I feel lucky to share inside jokes with myself (and occasionally with others, too).

8 hours ago, theopold said:

As for the distraction part, lol, let's start with the boring stuff, shall we? For the most part, I've been doing "ok" the last few days. Been having intermittent periods of DP/DR, intrusive thoughts, obsessive thoughts, etc, but I can usually manage them by turning towards them vs away, yes? And, by doing this, I'm usually able to continue on with whatever it is I am doing, or should be doing, or alternately, "float" past them such that they don't last very long. So yeah, that part hasn't been too bad.

This is really good, theopold. You're doing such a great job managing your experience of symptoms! Give yourself so much credit.

You're fairly new to the challenges of WD, and you seem to be excelling at non-drug coping techniques. I'm very impressed!

I have also noticed the kind messages you are posting to other members. Good on you for reaching out to connect with others and offer support.

Again, this might sound strange, but I'm proud of you <3

I'm glad you're here.

8 hours ago, theopold said:

OTOH, I started taking a magnesium supplement about a week ago, and...maybe that wasn't such a great idea? About 3-4 days in - on a very small starting dose of 25mg - I started having increased GI issues. I stuck with it for another couple days, but the GI issues remained and so I've stopped taking it now. And so, two things there...One, it's sooooooo frustrating to never know for sure right now....was it the supplement, or was it me THINKING about taking the supplement, lol?? In other words, was it really affecting me, or was it all just my head? Second thing, I am now obsessing over my GI issues, such that my hyper-focus is making them considerably worse right now - of course! And, both the obsession, and the worsening GI issues, make me feel frustrated, angry, depressed, etc, etc.

Magnesium can cause loose stools and overactive bowels (the runs). That's a real thing. It's quite individual from person to person, depending on dosage, sensitivity and also whether a person has sufficient magnesium in their diet to begin with. Sounds like you did the right thing stopping it for now, and hey, brave of you to try and good you proceeded with caution. You can always give it another go at a later date if you feel so inclined, or not. No big deal.

Many people in WD find that supplements are just not tolerable to their sensitized system. You are not alone in that.

If you still feel curious about exploring complementary/functional nutrition, one option is to deliberately include some magnesium-rich foods (if you don't already), e.g. avocado, almonds, kale, banana, fatty fish such as salmon or mackerel, etc. Many people who do not tolerate supplements have no problem with the addition of vitamins/minerals through food.

For me it has been both a pleasure and a meaningful source of healing to adapt my dietary guidelines to the changing needs of my system through chronic illness.

This is entirely optional, though. I trust you are listening to your body and adjusting accordingly. I do understand how much time, energy, psychic space can be taken up by GI issues, and you know best what's right for you. I offer the above not as a suggestion but merely as information.

Trust your gut, and I mean that in every way!

9 hours ago, theopold said:

OK! Moving on from the "boring" stuff, lol...I've been a dog person all my life! I grew up with dogs, and I've had my own dogs all of my adult life - since graduating college. I currently own two purebred Boxers. Not sure if you know the breed at all? Boxers are great big, silly, child-like, clowns in terms of their personalities. To give you a small idea...their "puppy" stage can last for up to 3 years old! So....very sweet and adorable, yet quite the handful at times, lol. They tend to vary a bit in size, but...my big boy is about 40kg (90 pounds), and my "little" boy is about 34kg (75 pounds). Which translates to - because I KNOW you are dying to know - some pretty substantial poo's! 🤣 Which I personally pick up, each and every day..yaaay!!

Thank you so much for sharing this! I love hearing about your dogs (and their poos). Feel free to elaborate and tell me anything about them (the dogs and the poos).

I actually knew a boxer when I was little, we had one in the family, so to speak. A frisky bundle of pure, muscled enthusiasm named Cicero. I was very young at the time, toddler-ish, and have vague memories of seeing Cicero at holidays, and simultaneously wanting to play with him and being frightened because I was so unaccustomed to that unbridled canine energy. To be fair, he wasn't used to being around children, so the feeling was probably mutual. I remember our sort of being attracted to each other's company across an insurmountable communicative divide. I believe there was an incident where he pounced on me (playfully, not aggressively) and I lost my balance and fell, and I think the adults around us worked themselves up into a frenzy and that was the end of our days together.

9 hours ago, theopold said:

Like any and all dogs, they are a great treasure, a great comfort, and a constant source of love and affection. I always say...there's a reason dog spelled backwards is "god". Admittedly, however, I AM a little biased in terms of this topic, obviously 😋 Speaking of "any and all" dogs...I also currently volunteer at a dog shelter. It's something I very much enjoy on it's own, obviously, but it's also a great source of distraction for me. I'm actually currently trying to find another potential volunteering activity of some type for that same reason - it's a great distraction. By way of additional context, I'm retired now, and as alluded to on a couple of other occasions, I'm single, I live alone, and for various reasons, I don't have a lot of support from my family these days. And while I do have a few friends, they're not really the type of friendships that I would call "close". And too, as I'm sure many of us here know...it's not always easy to talk with "casual" friends about what I'm going through right now. Net net...dogs, volunteering, keeping busy/distracted, etc, these are all good things for me right now.

How wonderful that you volunteer at a dog shelter! They are so lucky to have you.

I've looked into that for myself, actually, but the animal shelters where I live are quite competitive in their volunteer recruitment and require a commitment of minimum 30 hours/week, which is much more than I can handle. This makes me all the more grateful to have aforementioned arrangement with my neighbor, walking her dog. I cherish that time.

What other kinds of volunteering have you considered, if you care to share? What would you enjoy, do you think, if you could choose anything at all?

We're not allowed dogs in my housing association. I lived with a cat for several very happy years. She died when I was a few years into PAWS and I haven't felt quite well enough since to make the commitment to anyone new. Animal adoption is a contract between souls and I take it very seriously. I do miss living with another creature (I get a lot of mileage talking to the spiders here, as well as the live bacteria in my homemade, raw unpasteurized kimchi, but it's not the same) and have been wondering lately whether maybe it's time. Companions have a way of finding us, though, don't they, when the time is right...

9 hours ago, theopold said:

Ok, maybe that's enough "distraction" for this current message? Let me know how you're doing there, please, and..."woof" to you too!! 🐕😊❤️

Thank you very much for writing, theopold. You have helped me.

Hugs to you and your dogs, it's good to think of you together. I have no doubt they've scored the jackpot being part of your household.

Healing vibes <3

Ariel

June 9

21 hours ago, Ariel said:

I like to play this game I made up called "Last Words" or "Epitaph". It consists of thinking of/about any phrase that would make for a funny "exit line"; the only point of the game is to make myself laugh. It always cheers me up. Sometimes I tell myself, "Famous last words: Healing is happening," or "Last words: Healing happened."

One of my favorite things about being alive is humor. I feel lucky to share inside jokes with myself (and occasionally with others, too).

Too funny, @Ariel Gotta love a little gallows humor - and I do, lol! I'm getting this image of you sitting in your room, giggling periodically for no apparent reason, and I really do wish I was able to be there to see you smile

21 hours ago, Ariel said:

Again, this might sound strange, but I'm proud of you ❤️

I'm glad you're here.

Thank you, you are very kind. I'm glad you're here too!

21 hours ago, Ariel said:

I do understand how much time, energy, psychic space can be taken up by GI issues, and you know best what's right for you.

Ain't it the truth?! And, boy...right about now I really do wish I knew what was right for me...sigh. As mentioned, my GI issues have been worse than usual recently - hence the discontinuation of the magnesium - and unfortunately, today was a particularly bad day The pain and discomfort has been very bad pretty much all day. And, I have to admit...it's deeply frustrating, and scary, obviously.

One other thing to mention, however...I was laying in bed at around 6am this morning, and I couldn't get back to sleep because my stomach was bothering me so much. So, I'm laying there, and for whatever reason, I decided to just lay on my back for a little while before maybe giving up, and getting up, lol. Now, I'm a side sleeper, and I cannot sleep on my back, but...after laying on my back for maybe 10-15 minutes, all of the pain and discomfort disappeared! I mean...completely disappeared!! Any idea what to make of that?? Please feel free to share your thoughts, if any...

22 hours ago, Ariel said:

Thank you so much for sharing this! I love hearing about your dogs (and their poos). Feel free to elaborate and tell me anything about them (the dogs and the poos).

I'm glad you enjoyed hearing about my dogs And yes, you have it exactly right about Boxers...they are, indeed, a "frisky bundle of pure, muscled enthusiasm"!! Speaking of which, I'll tell you something funny/sad that's somewhat related to this topic. Normally, my dogs sleep in my bedroom with me - most of the time, they sleep on a couch-thing that's positioned at the end of my bed. Thing is, they can be a bit noisy, sometimes, lol. My "smaller" dog, Quinn, for example, is a bit of a snorer! And, my "big boy", Logan, will occasionally come and sit right next to my face by the side of the bed during the middle of the night, and either just stare at me, or even sort of lick me a little bit, lol. Point of all this being...with my insomnia issues right now, I just can't have the dogs waking me up randomly during the night. And so, they have to sleep outside of my bedroom for the time being, and it makes them sad every night because they miss sleeping with me - and I miss them too.

22 hours ago, Ariel said:

How wonderful that you volunteer at a dog shelter! They are so lucky to have you.

I've looked into that for myself, actually, but the animal shelters where I live are quite competitive in their volunteer recruitment and require a commitment of minimum 30 hours/week, which is much more than I can handle. This makes me all the more grateful to have aforementioned arrangement with my neighbor, walking her dog. I cherish that time.

Thank you for the kind words 😊 And, I am sorry you have that time commitment issue where you live...that's too bad! But, at least you have your neighbor's dog!!

22 hours ago, Ariel said:

We're not allowed dogs in my housing association. I lived with a cat for several very happy years. She died when I was a few years into PAWS and I haven't felt quite well enough since to make the commitment to anyone new. Animal adoption is a contract between souls and I take it very seriously.

I'm sorry to know about your current housing situation in terms of dogs. That said, I sincerely do understand what you mean about the "commitment" involved. There are times where I actually feel a little guilty about some of the limits on my activities/interactions with my dogs right now because of what I'm dealing with...sigh.

22 hours ago, Ariel said:

I do miss living with another creature (I get a lot of mileage talking to the spiders here, as well as the live bacteria in my homemade, raw unpasteurized kimchi, but it's not the same)

You are a seriously amusing human being, and I LOVE your sense of humor! Not for nothing, and you very likely know it already, but...a good sense of humor will get you through quite a bit in this life, eh?

22 hours ago, Ariel said:

Thank you very much for writing, theopold. You have helped me.

Hugs to you and your dogs, it's good to think of you together.

I'm glad to know I could help! Hugs to you and your spiders as well 😁 Hope you be surfing that recent wave all the way up to your next window right about now!!!!

June 9

22 hours ago, Ariel said:

What other kinds of volunteering have you considered, if you care to share? What would you enjoy, do you think, if you could choose anything at all?

Sorry, @Ariel, I forgot to answer this question! I come from America, but I live in Thailand now, yes? And so, one of the other volunteer options I was considering was tutoring some of the local monks in speaking English! I think that would be a really cool activity!! Unfortunately, the folks who were sort of coordinating this with the local Buddhist temple have apparently taken a break right now? And so, that's on "hold" for the moment, I guess.

Another option would be a group that does trash pick up on all the local beaches, but...that means being outside for long periods of time in the hot sun, lol. And so, as admirable as the activity clearly is, to this point I have hesitated on following up on that 😬

So yeah, I'm actually not sure what my best option is right now? 🤔 But, having this conversation with you about it right now has been a good reminder that I need to get back to researching my other volunteering options, and...I'm actually gonna start working on that tomorrow! So, thanks, Ariel

June 13

It's time for an update, I feel. If nothing else, it's a personal journal entry I can refer back to - in times both good, and bad, I guess. And, speaking of "referring back", looking back on recent days, it seems I've been in a bit of a window, albeit with intermittent symptoms. I say, looking back, because I do believe right now I've just started on a particularly nasty wave...sadly.

I suppose there were signs? For example, my physical symptoms have been more noticeable recently. Another example, while the psychological symptoms have been intermittent throughout the window, they have become a little less "intermittent" the last couple of days. And finally, I just start feeling a little more "fragile", in general. It becomes very easy to be overwhelmed by something you might otherwise handle a bit more in stride.

Case in point, on Monday night the power went out at about 4am, and it stayed out for the next 8 hours. Because of the inability to use the aircon, it quickly got very hot inside my bedroom, and that was the end of sleep for the night. And yes, it's likely true that just about anyone would struggle with an increase in heat while trying to sleep, but...it's what that circumstance subsequently triggers that is the real killer, of course. Meaning, anxiety, fear, catastrophizing, etc, etc.

So yeah, Monday night sucked, lol. Which carries over into during the day on Tuesday, of course. But!! I somehow managed to get a good night's sleep on Tuesday night...yaaaaay, lol. Ah, but then last night I woke up in the middle of the night from a dead sleep only to fall into a massive anxiety attack almost immediately 😪 And, yeah, it was pretty bad. I have a few different triggers, obviously, but the one that hit last night is particularly bad for me. I'll skip the details on that, just to avoid possibly triggering someone else, inadvertently, but it's basically a variant on the "am I going crazy?" fear.

And, you know, I really have been doing fairly well managing the "fear of fear" with my non-drug coping skills lately, but...what the hell are you supposed to do when you literally come awake in the middle of the night and you're already like 90% there in terms of the onset of the attack??? I DID try to turn into it, but sometimes you just lose that battle. Which is to say....yeah, I think the next wave has just recently fully hit me, lol.

Speaking of which, I read some folks' introductions/story/history here, and it seems not uncommon for some people to go through YEARS of waves? Pretty scary thing to contemplate, obviously, but how do these folks do that?? I understand they do get better over time, but...Where do they find the courage, the strength, the will? It's only been about 2.5 months for me at this point, and I'm already feeling extremely challenged emotionally, psychologically, physically, etc.

I mean, in one sense I get it...as I've written here before, and also told myself many, many times already, what other real choice is there? I am NOT going to give up, give in, whatever, so...what other choice is there? Still, for those folks that have been "living" this situation for years, not months, each and every one of you is a gosh-darned hero in my book. Even at just a couple of months, I certainly have never known a greater challenge than this...

June 13

Hi @theopold. Goodness, everything you describe about your past few days and nights is so much of what I have been experiencing. Apart, of course, from the issue of the heat. It's absolutely freezing here, but I fully understand the upset around losing power. Things like this send me into an absolute spin.

Like you, the night before last was horrendous. To the extent that I actually sought help. Something I haven't done in five years. I'll write more about it in my thread. The end result was exactly where you have ended up, I think. In a wave, wondering just how you keep moving forward. Just how do people do it, year after year. I just don't know.

It's all so confusing, as well, isn't it? This interplay between the physical and the emotional symptoms. They each seem to follow their own up and down patterns, and for me, at least, it's when both collide at their individual worst levels that things get really bad. That's what happened to me the night before last.

As you quite rightly say, we seem to have no choice but to keep going. At least we can all keep going together, through this site.

Let's hope for a decent today, with not too much fear of the fear.

June 13

1 hour ago, Libby123 said:

It's all so confusing, as well, isn't it? This interplay between the physical and the emotional symptoms. They each seem to follow their own up and down patterns, and for me, at least, it's when both collide at their individual worst levels that things get really bad. That's what happened to me the night before last.

Yes, I agree with you here, @Libby123! You put it exactly right...the "interplay"!! Even in the midst of last night's awful turmoil, I could not, and usually cannot, believe how rapidly my mental and emotional distress almost immediately translates into horrible stomach issues...sigh. And you are not alone in terms of the worst of it being when both the physical and the emotional collide. To repeat myself, it's just bloody awful 😭

June 16

Hi @theopold

Thank you so much for stopping by my thread. That means a lot to me.

It was lovely to receive your greeting.

How are you going?

Thinking of you, too, and sending healing vibes <3

Ariel

June 17

Hello, @Ariel

9 hours ago, Ariel said:

Thank you so much for stopping by my thread. That means a lot to me.

It was lovely to receive your greeting.

How are you going?

How am I doing? It's windows and waves, of course...lol. Seriously, though, I'm actually going to write a separate, and longer, "update" post a bit later, just to continue journaling my progress. But, in the meantime, I am surviving - in large part due to the warm thoughts and kindness of people like you ☺️ And how are you doing? I read on another of your recent posts that perhaps you're still in the midst of a recent wave? Sending warmth and love your way, my dear 💖

June 17

It's time for an update, and right now I am struggling terribly. The last 2-3 days, I've been in a wave and it's been pretty relentless. I've been trying to use my coping skills, and I've had varying amounts of success, but today has been very bad. And, just a quick trigger warning...I'm going to be writing about my fear of going crazy.

Essentially, during this latest wave I've been torturing myself with the fear that I'm going crazy. And, once that fear sets in, I start to over-analyze every single thought, action, feeling, etc. So, for example, if I'm doing something I've done a thousand times before - making breakfast, for example - I'm constantly self-analyzing to see if I "forget" something that is a normal part of the process. In other words, am I forgetting how to make breakfast because...I'm going crazy, i.e. my mind is no longer functioning correctly? Another example would be...am I forgetting how to spell a word, am I seeing weird things, hearing weird sounds, does something very normal suddenly feel different, not normal at all, etc.

All of this is very, very difficult for me because for a good part of my adult life when I was experiencing general anxiety it often manifested in this same way...an apparently deep-seated fear that I might go "crazy". The fear often manifested when I begin to imagine that some of the thoughts I'm having are not coming from "me". I really have no idea how this fear started, where it comes from, etc, but it is terribly, terribly frightening. And, of course, the withdrawal experience - specifically the last couple of days - is giving me this fear on steroids!

In the past, I obviously would have self-medicated - either pop a pill, drink alcohol, etc. But, none of that is available to me any more, and so I am relying on my non-drug coping skills. One specific example of this...I am trying to turn into my fear of going crazy rather than any "fight" or "flight" response. But, for the moment, at least, turning into the fear feels like it's multiplying it 100-fold!!

Anyway, I had some minor success last night sort of easing the anxiety - I was able to "stop" some of the obsessive, intrusive thoughts. And, somewhat surprisingly, I slept fairly well last night. Normally, I will wake up at least 3 times during the night. Last night, I did wake up once in the early hours, but I then actually slept till almost the time I will usually get up. And too, my main physical symptom is GI issues. And, over the last 2-3 days, for the first time in a very long time, my GI issues were noticeably - and continuously - improved. All of which is to say...I was actually feeling cautiously optimistic about, you know, surviving all of this - eventually, lol.

And then...wham!! My GI issues are very, very bad today. And, my goodness...I woke up this morning with that, "something's wrong, but I don't know what" feeling, which slowly morphs into...I'm probably going crazy, which morphs into...obsessive thoughts, obsessive self-analysis, etc, about going crazy, which leads to the second fear, which creates the feedback loop...which makes everything that much worse!!!

So, yeah, that was my morning. And then, I went out for a drive, just to distract myself. I often do this these days, and it definitely helps. Well, at some point during my drive today, I started back in with my obsessive fear of going crazy. Came back home, read a little of Claire Weekes' book, and just tried to lay down for a while. I was able to calm myself down, but a short time after I got up again I actually started to feel physically ill, started to feel strange sinus pressure in my face, and just thoroughly and terribly anxious and frightened. It just came on suddenly, seemingly out of nowhere, and it was just horrible. You know, it's one of those times where you just start seriously catastrophizing - in my case, this typically involves the fear of being institutionalized for having a full-on nervous breakdown, going insane, etc, etc.

And finally, just to maybe add some context here...one of the things I find myself doing lately is to question, or doubt, the "utility" of some of my coping skills. So, for example, this idea of turning into your fear is just a false concept, and it's only been working up to now because I've been imaging that it's working, or can help. Or, that what's happening to me right now is not from withdrawal symptoms, but I really am just going crazy - else, why am I struggling so incredibly right now?? And too, I was reading some of my journal entries from earlier in the year, before I started to come off the benzo and the sertraline, and even while taking those drugs I was having issues with obsessive thoughts, DP/DR, etc. Point being, I wasn't going through withdrawal at that point, yet I was having psychological issues, and so...what's happening to me now is ALSO not withdrawal symptoms, and...I really must be going crazy!!!!

Ok, so...as you can see, I'm really freakin' wound up right now. I guess it's also that I'm just in "shock" that I'm - apparently - in a wave this incredibly bad. I mean, how screwed up am I to at least FEEL like I am making some progress at healing, only to experience what certainly feels like the worst wave I've ever had?? If anyone has any thoughts, etc, to share, please do! I'm really struggling right now and the scariest feeling of all is the feeling like if I'm not careful I really am going to lose my grip on reality - I will lose my ability to know what is real, or true, and what is not. I'm terribly scared and frightened, and definitely feeling alone and lost. If you can help me at all right now, please do...

June 17

Dear @theopold

I'm so sorry you're suffering. I'm sorry this has happened to you.

You're going through withdrawal syndrome (WD), and are currently in the acute phase where symptoms can be quite intense.

I know it can be so harrowing to experience.

Big HUGS to you!

I can relate to everything you describe. I've been there, I've gone through acute WD (more times than I can remember) and have made it through.

This is temporary, it will pass. It does get better.

You are in the thick of it right now and your job is to just hang in there and endure.

9 hours ago, theopold said:

the withdrawal experience - specifically the last couple of days - is giving me this fear on steroids!

This is exactly how it is with WD brain. The iatrogenic injury amplifies and intensifies our every perceived discomfort.

You might revisit the topics on Neuro-Emotions, Dealing with Emotional Spirals, Changing the Channel.

(Also re-read through your own thread and our previous exchanges/messages, incl. links to topics such as What is happening in your brain?)

When I suggest you read or re-read these threads it's not so much to study non-drug coping skills -- although they are always good to brush up on, it sounds like you're adept at practicing these. Give yourself so much credit for that!

The reason I bring up these topics is that, at this stage, it can be helpful to read other members' experiences of WD and even read back through your own posts chronicling your own experiences to date. I trust you will see your experience reflected in theirs (and yours) with uncanny accuracy.

This helps teach us that it is not "us", it is not our true minds, but that this experience of symptoms is in and of itself a function of WD. So when you read through help topics, pay attention to all the posts in which members describe their experiences of symptoms. When you read success stories, go back and read that person's intro topic, too -- you will see that they have gone through and overcome all the same symptoms that other people in WD are dealing with or have dealt with. You will learn to recognize the WD symptom profile and the more familiar you are with it, the better you'll be able to distance yourself from its manifestation in your lived experience.

(That being said, please be mindful of whether or not it serves you to read these accounts. It has helped me to do so, but I don't have health anxiety; you know best what you can handle and what you might be better off skipping for now. If you feel like reading about other people's hard times might make you feel more scared, please do what's right for you and steer clear.)

You see, one of the cruelest, most slippery tricks that WD plays on us is persuading us that what we are going through is not WD. I think there's some saying about the devil, something like, the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist. (I don't know where that's from.) Same goes for WD. When we're in the throes of an intense wave, as you were when you wrote your recent post, WD is telling us, "it's you, there's something inherently wrong with you, you're broken, you're losing your mind," etc. That is pure, insidious WD-brain talking, and it is NOT you. It's NOT your true mind. It is the iatrogenic injury causing chemical chaos that expresses itself as this thought symptom.

9 hours ago, theopold said:

Point being, I wasn't going through withdrawal at that point, yet I was having psychological issues, and so...what's happening to me now is ALSO not withdrawal symptoms, and...I really must be going crazy!!!!

You are not going crazy. You are going through the truly awful experience of WD, an iatrogenic, debilitating illness. One of the symptoms of this illness can manifest as the feeling that we are going crazy. You are not crazy, you are not going crazy, you will not go crazy.

You will get to the other side of this wave and you will feel more like yourself, and with every passing wave you will feel more and more like yourself. This is the non-linear process of healing.

And healing IS happening! Healing is happening all the time, even when we don't consciously perceive it. Even when we feel like we are going crazy and losing our minds, healing is happening beneath the surface throughout.

9 hours ago, theopold said:

one of the things I find myself doing lately is to question, or doubt, the "utility" of some of my coping skills

Your coping skills are absolutely useful, and it's fantastic that you're learning and applying and practicing them. Awesome job!

That being said, the best coping skills in the world most deftly implemented cannot prevent or cure WD waves. That's the reality. The waves will come no matter what, BECAUSE healing is happening, and the waves ARE integral to the healing process. Coping skills can teach us, with time and practice, to avoid the second arrow, or the second fear as you call it -- and also, there are times in WD when the waves are so intense that coping skills are an exercise in futility and we just have to scream and cry and cower and white-knuckle our way through, dignity be damned.

We have all been there, I promise. When things are at their worst, try to just distract as much as possible. Do what you have to do to get through and survive (without drugs, without impulsive decisions that could make things worse). Hunker down and watch the clock tick if you have to. Anyone and everyone who has been in the acute phase of WD, or any other particularly nasty waves, knows what it's like to crawl through in desperation, clinging to each minute to get to the next minute to the next to the next. Eventually enough minutes have passed that the wave abates. It feels like forever, and then it's over.

9 hours ago, theopold said:

I mean, how screwed up am I to at least FEEL like I am making some progress at healing, only to experience what certainly feels like the worst wave I've ever had??

You are not screwed up. You ARE making progress, you ARE healing. Healing is happening this whole time, it is ongoing. In the waves and between the waves.

This is what you must learn -- and you will learn this with time, there is a learning curve to WD -- healing is happening all the time AND there are waves, AND no matter how nasty any one particular wave is, no matter how intense it hits or how long it lasts, no matter new or old symptoms, no matter the patterns and details -- it is ALL part of HEALING.

There is no contradiction. Everything you are experiencing is exactly how it is. This is WD. And it is temporary and it will pass and you will make it through, and you ARE making it through.

Give yourself grace.

For now, you don't have to do this perfectly or do it "right" or strive to win a gold medal in the Coping Skills Olympics (although if you ask me, you've already won).

Just get through as best you can. Cuddle your dogs. Keep your body as comfortable as possible. Distract by any non-drug, non-harmful means necessary.

Moment by moment, you will make it through.

Sending you so much love,

Ariel

June 17

Read this post with quoted comment about how WD-anxiety is an entirely different beast than garden-variety everyday non-WD anxiety:

Theopold: 1 Month off Sertraline - Increasing Withdrawal Symptoms

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