Theopold: 1 Month off Sertraline - Increasing Withdrawal Symptoms

[theopold]

12 hours ago, Ariel said:

For now, you don't have to do this perfectly or do it "right" or strive to win a gold medal in the Coping Skills Olympics (although if you ask me, you've already won). 

Just get through as best you can. Cuddle your dogs. Keep your body as comfortable as possible. Distract by any non-drug, non-harmful means necessary.

Moment by moment, you will make it through. 

 

Sending you so much love, 

Ariel

 

Thank you for your reply, @Ariel 🙏 You are an angel 💖  Although, I really, really want that Coping Skills gold medal!!  And, as you can probably already guess...with that last remark, I am trying my best to smile just a little amidst the incredible agony.  Last night was horrible, easily the worst night I've ever experienced.  It's mid-afternoon of the following day here now, and while the intensity has eased somewhat for the moment compared to last night...the total lack of sleep, ongoing anxiety, and the crushing fear of what comes next are still pretty significant issues today.  The wave continues, in other words.

 

Again, quite sincerely, thank you so much for your very comprehensive reply.  I KNOW everything you say is true, but as YOU likely know already...it's just so hard when you're in the midst of the wave to keep the faith, trust the process, believe in the healing....whatever/however I should describe it.  I will share this with you, however...amidst the endless agony, there can be these very small moments of "reprieve". 

 

For example, lying in bed early this morning I am torturing myself with this very irrational fear that...the universe is not really real, it's just something I've made up in my head.  Sounds pretty strange, I know, but it's essentially just me scaring myself with the fear of going crazy - to wit, who would think such a thing except a person who really is going crazy, right?  

 

Anyway, here's the point of telling you this...So, I'm lying in bed, imagining that the universe is not "real", drowning in anxiety and fear, and then this thought comes to me...Hey Wait!!  So I'm now telling myself that I created an entire universe in my head, absolutely nothing is "real", and...In this completely imaginary world that I have imagined/created, I freaking gave myself a dog that snores so loud he wakes me up every night?  Seriously??? 

 

And, with that thought, in the middle of the most challenging time I've ever had in my entire life...I just spontaneously burst out laughing.  Which is to say...I KNOW I'm not going crazy.  I'm just deathly afraid of GOING crazy - the "second arrow", in other words.  Of course, regardless of that brief "insight", I shortly thereafter went right back to my same "I'm going crazy" anxieties and fears - and so I also had a right good cry after that one spontaneous laugh...sigh. 

 

But, it is nevertheless these very brief moments I am trying to cling to right now - when, and if, they happen.  That, and the incredible kindness and support of people like you, Ariel.  As often happens, with tears in my eyes as I say this...thank you.

 

Much love, 

 

Theopold              

[Ariel]

Hi @theopold

Thinking of you. 

 

Thank you for this beautiful message you wrote to NardilTime:

 

On 6/18/2024 at 10:32 AM, theopold said:

Hello, @NardilTime

 

 

I just wanted to chime in quickly to say...I am a helluva lot older than 46, but my ship ain't sailing nowhere, nohow in terms of it being too late to have a relationship.  For the record, as someone who has been single most of my adult life, when I WAS your age, I do remember having similar thoughts about maybe I was already too old, it was too late, etc.  Turns out I was dead wrong about that, of course.

 

I do realize that you've got a potential concern tied to PSSD, but that doesn't change the fact that you are simply NEVER too old to bring a loving and meaningful relationship into your life.  I was actually reading another post here recently on the topic of loneliness, relationships, etc.  And, the essence of the post was that...having gone through this whole experience many of us subsequently recognize a sincere desire to take a different approach to ALL of the relationships in our lives. 

 

Which is just to say...If you truly want to bring a loving relationship into your life, NO you are not too old, and YES it can and will happen for you, if/when you are ready for it.  I believe that with all of my heart...           

 

I love this post so much!

And I'm re-posting it here in your topic because it speaks volumes to your profound inner strength and resilience. 

Your willingness to live with an open heart takes such courage and wholeness. 

It is from this same place within that you may trust in your healing and gather capaciousness for journeying/trudging on. 

 

Thank you for expressing this in such a moving way. 

I agree with you, of course. 

Your words provide so much hope for all of us, myself included. 

Sometimes it's easier to hold faith on someone else's behalf than our own. 

That's what we've got each other for. 

And that's why it's such a gift to become one's own best friend along the way. 

 

Healing is happening <3

Love,

Ariel

[theopold]

8 hours ago, Ariel said:

Hi @theopold

Thinking of you. 

 

Hello @Ariel

Thank you for thinking of me 🙏  You are often in my thoughts as well ☺️  And thank you for those very kind words!  Even though I'm drowning a bit in this latest wave, your message today still sent me to my happy place for a little while.

 

8 hours ago, Ariel said:

Your willingness to live with an open heart takes such courage and wholeness. 

 

 For much of my life, I was often very much afraid of living with an "open heart".  But, as a result of certain life events, my recent efforts to develop/strengthen my non-drug coping skills, etc, I find myself awakening more and more to the realization that the greatest gift we have in this life exists in meaningful relationships - family, friends, lovers, partners.  And, as mentioned in the item you've re-posted, it really never is too late to bring loving kindness into your life. 

 

Speaking of which...much love to you there, my dear💝  If you was here with me in person right now, I'd downright give you a great big hug, I would! 

[Ariel]

Hugs right back atcha @theopold

Hang in there, healing is happening <3

[Ariel]

On 6/21/2024 at 6:57 AM, theopold said:

Hey @Ariel

 

 

My insomnia is very bad right now.  Maybe 3.5 hours last night, and about 4 hours the night before.  I've copied the above quote from you into this message because...It just so happens that I had been dealing with a particularly nasty obsessive/intrusive thought for the last couple of days as well.  And...I was actually able to finally get some relief from that nasty issue yesterday by working on actively "removing" the second arrow of fear.

 

And so, I was feeling a little blessed and also relieved having made some progress with that issue yesterday...only to be hit pretty heavily by second arrows coming from the insomnia last night.  Funny, not-so-funny story about last night...I woke up in the middle of the night, was trying to distract myself with some reading for a bit.  Reached over to the side table to grab a drink of water from my water bottle, and knocked it over, causing it to "hit" my phone, and...my damn phone lit up, showing me the time.  And, yeah...inadvertently seeing the current time, figuring out how much sleep I'd had up to that point, that was all I needed - apparently - to kick off a pretty rough bout of anxiety and fear.  Once I'd calmed that down, that was it for sleep last night. 

 

Getting back to my point, I've read/re-read the various posts on sleep tips here.  I've also read your recent posts on the topic of insomnia.  But I still wanted to just ask...any tips on beating the second fears from insomnia?  Probably just the same process, i.e. find a way that works for you personally to remove the fear, but...I figured it couldn't hurt to ask anyway.  Also, anything you do, or don't do, the morning after?  For example, I've been taking it easy the last couple of days - no exercise, just relaxing as much as possible on the couch during the day, etc - and as mentioned, if anything my insomnia got worse!! 

 

So, sitting here today I'm now thinking I should be a little more active today, maybe try to tire myself out a bit?  But, then you read another post on this topic where maybe that's not recommended??  And, yes, lol, I know everyone's different - just wondering what the consensus, if any, might be on being "active" during bouts of insomnia? 

 

And finally, something I think each and every one of us can relate to...I am now almost 3 months into withdrawal - from the sertraline - and even after this (comparatively) short period of time, I cannot help but reflect on how one symptom/effect after another just...wears...you...down.  And, of course, the weaker you get/feel, the harder it is to "fight".  As mentioned above, I just yesterday beat that nasty obsessive thought that was - literally - torturing me, and now with this horrible, horrible insomnia flare, I wonder wear the strength comes from - in addition to the fact that with the insomnia, every little thing hits just that much harder, obviously.  Anyway...suggestions or support, do let me know your thoughts!   

 

your post from the Tips to help insomnia thread ^

 

Hi @theopold

 

Getting back to my point, I've read/re-read the various posts on sleep tips here.  I've also read your recent posts on the topic of insomnia.  But I still wanted to just ask...any tips on beating the second fears from insomnia?

 

The "second fears" are not from insomnia. The "second fears" are from a combination of WD-brain (i.e. iatrogenic injury) and anxious mind.

Insomnia does not cause second fears, and it's not about beating second fears.

 

I suggest you change your language about this, as the language you're using may be keeping you stuck in thinking that isn't serving you. 

See how it affects you to let go of terms like "insomnia", "fight", "beat", etc. 

 

It's about ACCEPTing sleep issues as a neutral circumstance, and then practicing being in that situation without judgment, without story, without emotional spirals. There's nothing to fight here, there's no enemy, no war, no foe, you are not under attack. 

 

You are resisting the circumstance and it is this resistance that is generating negative energy which in turn feeds and fuels "second fear". 

 

Also, anything you do, or don't do, the morning after?  For example, I've been taking it easy the last couple of days - no exercise, just relaxing as much as possible on the couch during the day, etc - and as mentioned, if anything my insomnia got worse!! 

 

So, sitting here today I'm now thinking I should be a little more active today, maybe try to tire myself out a bit?  But, then you read another post on this topic where maybe that's not recommended??

 

I cannot help but reflect on how one symptom/effect after another just...wears...you...down.  And, of course, the weaker you get/feel, the harder it is to "fight".  

 

Look at all of the above ^

You keep trying to fix it. You keep trying to solve "insomnia"/WD. 

WD cannot be fixed, cured, solved, or even effectively treated, and neither can WD-induced sleep issues. 

As long as you try to fix/solve/fight it, you are in resistance (i.e. the opposite of acceptance), and you are wearing yourself out from the struggle.

 

Struggling and fighting take a lot of energy. In WD this is not only a complete waste of effort (because WD can not be conquered in this way; it can only be endured), it is actually contraindicated. Struggling is detrimental because it causes and reinforces stress, confirming to our already overworked brains and nervous systems that there is actual danger, we are under threat, and therefore best to double-down on the fight-or-flight response. That is precisely the opposite of what we are aiming for. We don't want to make things harder on ourselves, because WD is hard enough. We want to do what we can to soften into it. 

 

As @sandnit and I just discussed in sandnit's thread, these are non-drug coping skills, not non-drug fix-it skills. These tools are meant to help you manage your experience of the circumstance of WD, not to fix or solve or remove WD. 

 

You ask what can be done -- should you rest? should you be more active? should you tire yourself out? etc. 

And it's good to be curious, as long as your questions are indeed fueled by an active curiosity, meaning an openness to inquiry that is not attached to any particular outcome. That is genuine curiosity coming from a place of acceptance and exploration. This may lead to helpful discoveries, at best, and at the very least the process of investigation will serve as a meaningful, data-collecting pastime and distraction.

 

That being said, when you ask these questions in the post above, it seems to me you are implicitly seeking a result of decreased symptoms. That is not a mode of open curiosity, that is (once again) anxious mind's problem-solving mode. You are asking what you should do to fix the issue. The answer -- once more -- is: you cannot fix it. You cannot control it. It is what it is.

 

Again:

It is what it is.

Your agency lies in accepting the circumstance and then making yourself as comfortable as possible for the journey of traveling through this circumstance. 

 

So let's say you have a rough night and you don't get adequate sleep. Does it feel nicer to rest? Or does it feel nicer to get up and move around? Does it feel nicer to carry out the day's itinerary as planned? Or does it feel nicer to cancel plans and do nothing? 

 

There are no correct answers here because you're not trying to arrive at any particular end result other than supporting yourself along the way of navigating some temporary discomfort. And what helps you get through on any given day or night (or hour) may vary. It's not a one-and-done, there's no be-all-end-all, catch-all formula. We just gotta feel it out as we go.

 

WD fluctuates, our preferences/needs fluctuate.

You asked in an earlier post how people live with WD/PAWS for years at a time. 

Speaking as someone who has survived waves that have lasted many months if not years at a time, and who is currently in the 7th year of PAWS, this is how we get through: One day at a time, one hour at a time, one moment at a time. One step at a time, one foot in front of the other. 

Little by little, practicing acceptance and patience. 

 

So how can you make this easier on yourself, theopold? 

 

Your homework is to practice letting go.

Explore what "letting go" might mean, what it might look like.

Any time you notice yourself tightening your grip -- be it to wield a tool to fix something, or to hang on because you're afraid of getting swept away by/in the storm -- loosen, soften, unclench, release. 

What does letting go feel like?

 

You are safe.

Healing is happening. 

Healing is happening all the time, even when we don't consciously perceive it. 

 

Go gently. 

Love,

Ariel 

 

[theopold]

Hello @Ariel

 

1 hour ago, Ariel said:

 

your post from the Tips to help insomnia thread ^

 

Hi @theopold

 

Getting back to my point, I've read/re-read the various posts on sleep tips here.  I've also read your recent posts on the topic of insomnia.  But I still wanted to just ask...any tips on beating the second fears from insomnia?

 

The "second fears" are not from insomnia. The "second fears" are from a combination of WD-brain (i.e. iatrogenic injury) and anxious mind.

Insomnia does not cause second fears, and it's not about beating second fears.

 

I suggest you change your language about this, as the language you're using may be keeping you stuck in thinking that isn't serving you. 

See how it affects you to let go of terms like "insomnia", "fight", "beat", etc. 

 

It's about ACCEPTing sleep issues as a neutral circumstance, and then practicing being in that situation without judgment, without story, without emotional spirals. There's nothing to fight here, there's no enemy, no war, no foe, you are not under attack. 

 

You are resisting the circumstance and it is this resistance that is generating negative energy which in turn feeds and fuels "second fear". 

 

Also, anything you do, or don't do, the morning after?  For example, I've been taking it easy the last couple of days - no exercise, just relaxing as much as possible on the couch during the day, etc - and as mentioned, if anything my insomnia got worse!! 

 

So, sitting here today I'm now thinking I should be a little more active today, maybe try to tire myself out a bit?  But, then you read another post on this topic where maybe that's not recommended??

 

I cannot help but reflect on how one symptom/effect after another just...wears...you...down.  And, of course, the weaker you get/feel, the harder it is to "fight".  

 

Look at all of the above ^

You keep trying to fix it. You keep trying to solve "insomnia"/WD. 

WD cannot be fixed, cured, solved, or even effectively treated, and neither can WD-induced sleep issues. 

As long as you try to fix/solve/fight it, you are in resistance (i.e. the opposite of acceptance), and you are wearing yourself out from the struggle.

 

Struggling and fighting take a lot of energy. In WD this is not only a complete waste of effort (because WD can not be conquered in this way; it can only be endured), it is actually contraindicated. Struggling is detrimental because it causes and reinforces stress, confirming to our already overworked brains and nervous systems that there is actual danger, we are under threat, and therefore best to double-down on the fight-or-flight response. That is precisely the opposite of what we are aiming for. We don't want to make things harder on ourselves, because WD is hard enough. We want to do what we can to soften into it. 

 

As @sandnit and I just discussed in sandnit's thread, these are non-drug coping skills, not non-drug fix-it skills. These tools are meant to help you manage your experience of the circumstance of WD, not to fix or solve or remove WD. 

 

You ask what can be done -- should you rest? should you be more active? should you tire yourself out? etc. 

And it's good to be curious, as long as your questions are indeed fueled by an active curiosity, meaning an openness to inquiry that is not attached to any particular outcome. That is genuine curiosity coming from a place of acceptance and exploration. This may lead to helpful discoveries, at best, and at the very least the process of investigation will serve as a meaningful, data-collecting pastime and distraction.

 

That being said, when you ask these questions in the post above, it seems to me you are implicitly seeking a result of decreased symptoms. That is not a mode of open curiosity, that is (once again) anxious mind's problem-solving mode. You are asking what you should do to fix the issue. The answer -- once more -- is: you cannot fix it. You cannot control it. It is what it is.

 

Again:

It is what it is.

Your agency lies in accepting the circumstance and then making yourself as comfortable as possible for the journey of traveling through this circumstance. 

 

So let's say you have a rough night and you don't get adequate sleep. Does it feel nicer to rest? Or does it feel nicer to get up and move around? Does it feel nicer to carry out the day's itinerary as planned? Or does it feel nicer to cancel plans and do nothing? 

 

There are no correct answers here because you're not trying to arrive at any particular end result other than supporting yourself along the way of navigating some temporary discomfort. And what helps you get through on any given day or night (or hour) may vary. It's not a one-and-done, there's no be-all-end-all, catch-all formula. We just gotta feel it out as we go.

 

WD fluctuates, our preferences/needs fluctuate.

You asked in an earlier post how people live with WD/PAWS for years at a time. 

Speaking as someone who has survived waves that have lasted many months if not years at a time, and who is currently in the 7th year of PAWS, this is how we get through: One day at a time, one hour at a time, one moment at a time. One step at a time, one foot in front of the other. 

Little by little, practicing acceptance and patience. 

 

So how can you make this easier on yourself, theopold? 

 

Your homework is to practice letting go.

Explore what "letting go" might mean, what it might look like.

Any time you notice yourself tightening your grip -- be it to wield a tool to fix something, or to hang on because you're afraid of getting swept away by/in the storm -- loosen, soften, unclench, release. 

What does letting go feel like?

 

You are safe.

Healing is happening. 

Healing is happening all the time, even when we don't consciously perceive it. 

 

Go gently. 

Love,

Ariel 

 

 

Your thoughts are always much appreciated, but I'm literally gonna print out the above post and tape it to my refrigerator - and no, I'm not kidding. I'm also going to read it to myself on my phone every night before bed!  Thank you so much for this, you are truly an inspiration. 

 

Much love,

 

Theopold 

[theopold]

Time for another update.  If nothing else, I guess I will be able to come back to this post in the future, when I need to be reminded of what I have - hopefully - previously survived...

 

The anxiety today is relentless.  Not sure, but it could be related to either the fact that, after having a good night's sleep two nights ago, I had relatively poor sleep again last night, or the fact that my GI issues have increased significantly today as well. 

 

Regarding the insomnia, it's weighing on me today in terms of the hope I think we all experience when there's some, or any, type of improvement, only to be followed by a "setback", if you will.  Similarly, with the GI issues, things have been relatively stable for a while, but then things were pretty bad starting this morning, and throughout the day. 

 

And so, I am really, really struggling right now.  Normally, I would try to distract myself by going out for a motorbike ride, but there's a big storm here at the moment, so I can't do that - or, perhaps better said, I'd prefer not to...right? 

 

About that circumstance...I always find it "interesting" to note that, even though I literally feel like I'm going to die, go crazy, or whatever, right now, and that distracting myself would be really, really, helpful at the moment, still...in order to do so, I would prefer not to go out in the rain, ha ha!  This situation would seem to offer some degree of comfort, if you follow my logic?  And yet, not really, sadly.  Probably because "logic" is pretty useless at times like this...

 

So yeah, I really cannot believe what I'm experiencing right now.  It's obviously something many of you are sadly quite familiar with as well...the intense anxiety, DP/DR, weird physical sensations, catastrophizing, etc, etc.  And, the part I absolutely hate the most...there's just no quick relief!!  I can't pop a pill, I can't go see a doctor who can make it all better, I don't even have anyone who can talk me down right now. 

 

You literally just have to focus on surviving moment to moment, and just hope and pray it somehow, someway, ends soon-ish.  Well, that and the non-drug coping skills I think we all here work so hard on.  And, they DO help, but when I get hit with devastating waves like the one I'm in now, I don't know what, if anything, can really help me.  If there is something, I obviously haven't found it yet - except time, of course. 

 

So again...I'm just trying to make it to that next moment, and the next one, and the one after that, etc, etc.  And, I suppose I should finish with something like...wish me luck??       

[itsalyssadood]

14 hours ago, theopold said:

wish me luck??   

Good luck, prayers, good vibes, all the above @theopold! You got this.  Just another crummy wave that you will make it through.

 

Don’t forget: what comes after a wave is a glorious window ♥️

[theopold]

1 hour ago, itsalyssadood said:

Good luck, prayers, good vibes, all the above @theopold! You got this.  Just another crummy wave that you will make it through.

 

Don’t forget: what comes after a wave is a glorious window ♥️

 

Hello, @itsalyssadood

 

Thank you for the kind thoughts, I really appreciate it 🙏  I was really struggling last night 😭  And then, I ended up being able to chat with one of my sisters for a little while, which helped a lot.   And, it's the "funniest" thing about this experience...while I was chatting with my sister, I felt basically "normal" - all the anxiety, intrusive thoughts, etc, kind of faded into the background.  But then, of course(!), as soon as we finished chatting, those symptoms started creeping back...sigh. 

 

Which, just bewilders me!!  Especially when it comes to the intrusive/obsessive thoughts, fears of going crazy, fear this will never end, etc.  I mean, I'm chatting with my sister, and I'm obviously not going crazy, nor will I be, and then after the chat those same irrational fears start coming back???  It doesn't make sense, but...I guess it doesn't have to?  So, so frustrating...  

[ShantyO7]

12 hours ago, theopold said:

fears of going crazy, fear this will never end

Nice to know I'm not the only one who has these fears... esp the fear that this will never end and I will never feel better again

[Dahlia50]

35 minutes ago, ShantyO7 said:

esp the fear that this will never end and I will never feel better again

Same fear here. 
 

[theopold]

Another update for maybe my future self.  Actually had a window for about half a day yesterday.  Unfortunately, it was followed by a wave unlike anything I have ever experienced before.  I feel like I've been through a lot up to now, but I've still never experienced anything like this. 

 

Not much sleep last night, but worrying about insomnia is far from the top of my list at the moment.  That said, the most difficult time does still come at night, if only because it's that much harder to just "survive" when I'm lying in bed vs being able to at least have additional options for distractions, coping skills, etc., during the day.

 

I'm not sure what it is that will get me through this, but I will try to just focus on the now, and I will try to just make it from moment to moment.  For anyone who reads this, please keep me in your thoughts.     

[theopold]

Ok, so...quick follow up update here.  After my last message several hours ago, I went to the gym, came back home, had dinner, etc.  And, somewhere in that timeframe, I came into a window again - albeit with mild symptoms.  Even more surprising, out of nowhere a few minutes ago, the thought suddenly occurred to me...this current challenge is NOT the end of my story!  Even though, as myself and a couple of other folks mentioned above, when you're in a damn wave it certainly feels that way. 

 

And, when I say the "thought occurred to me", it was more like an epiphany?  In my heart and in my head, I just suddenly knew it to be true...this nightmare WILL end.  I also came to understand in that same moment that the opposing fear has dug it's way much deeper into my psyche than I'd previously realized - it wasn't just living within my waves. 

 

All of which reminds me of one of my favorite quotes:  "Beware of those who weep with realization, for they have realized nothing." Put that another way, tonight's "realizations" were significant, but...don't be surprised if I'm posting about yet another wave at some point in the very near future, lol.  Either way, I am comforted by the above moments because clearly...Healing Is Happening! 🙏   

[Ariel]

41 minutes ago, theopold said:

Hello @Ariel

 

I'm dealing with a nasty wave right now and so I'm somewhat selfishly looking for a little bit of MAD at the moment, lol.  That said, I'd probably still be missing you a little bit, regardless.  And so, please know that you are often in my thoughts 💖

 

Hi @theopold

MAD delivery.

 

What are your favorite Ds these days? 

 

I've been thinking about your idea of volunteering teaching English to Buddhist monks. I gotta say that sounds incredibly appealing.

Where do I sign up? 

 

By the way, I don't know whether you've read through my thread or not. 

One post includes a favorite quote, attributed to Lao Tzu:

If you don't change direction, you may end up where you are heading.

 

Good one, eh? 

 

Tell me all about your life! 

[theopold]

Hello @Ariel

 

13 minutes ago, Ariel said:

What are your favorite Ds these days?

 

Blame it on my current sleep issues...but, I don't think I know what a "favorite D" is, lol?  Please help a boy out here with a little further explanation 🤭

 

19 minutes ago, Ariel said:

I've been thinking about your idea of volunteering teaching English to Buddhist monks. I gotta say that sounds incredibly appealing.

 

Forgive me, but do they have Buddhist monks in need of English lessons in the EU? 😋

 

MAD back at you...Have you been doing any neighborly dog walks lately?  If so, any spectacular poo's been coming your way??   

[Ariel]

2 minutes ago, theopold said:

Blame it on my current sleep issues...but, I don't think I know what a "favorite D" is, lol?  Please help a boy out here with a little further explanation 🤭

 

LOL 

"D" from "MAD" -> Distraction! 

 

2 minutes ago, theopold said:

Forgive me, but do they have Buddhist monks in need of English lessons in the EU? 😋

 

I don't know. I was daydreaming about a jaunt to Thailand! 

[theopold]

@Ariel

 

6 minutes ago, Ariel said:

LOL 

"D" from "MAD" -> Distraction!

 

lol.  Too simple, once explained.  My favorite D is just talking, actually.  It helps, obviously, if you're talking to someone with whom you can at least reference the whole WD thing, but any kind of human interaction is definitely extremely helpful for me.  Somewhat similar...I wouldn't mind hearing some bits and bobs about your life these days?  Just reading, and re-reading from time to time, the things you've already mentioned makes me smile and forget about my inner dialogue for a bit...

 

16 minutes ago, Ariel said:

I don't know. I was daydreaming about a jaunt to Thailand! 

 

Come on down, Girl!  I've got a spare bedroom, lol.  Not to mention, two sloppy, lovable, Boxers 😁  Fair warning, however...not sure if the ponderous plane flight to get here technically qualifies as a "jaunt" or not?  That said, we do obviously have a ready supply of monks for you 🤭 

[Ariel]

22 minutes ago, theopold said:

a ready supply of monks

 

Haha, love it!

 

I listened to this while making dinner: https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/articles/do-sperm-whales-talk-to-each-other

 

Will check in with you after eating. 

 

Hang in there <3

 

 

[theopold]

And...I actually missed this comment previously, @Ariel

 

1 hour ago, Ariel said:

By the way, I don't know whether you've read through my thread or not. 

One post includes a favorite quote, attributed to Lao Tzu:

If you don't change direction, you may end up where you are heading.

 

This reminds me of..."No matter where you go, there you are!".  In terms of your quote, however, it's actually pretty applicable to my life in recent years. It's at least part of the reason why I ended up in Thailand. And, it's a big part of why I've made a number of changes in my life in recent years...

[theopold]

8 minutes ago, Ariel said:

 

I listened to this while making dinner: https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/articles/do-sperm-whales-talk-to-each-other

 

 

Ah, very cool! 🙂

[Ariel]

Hi @theopold

 

Dinner was delicious.

I so enjoy cooking and baking and puttering about the kitchen. Definitely one of my top Ds. 

This afternoon I baked a rhubarb cake for someone. I don't eat baked goods or sweets myself, and I'm always happy to bake up a storm for anyone else! Sometimes I bake cookies for friends who live in other cities and send them care packages. That's a great D. 

 

Do you listen to podcasts? 

This episode is relevant for the SA crowd: 

https://freakonomics.com/podcast/pay-attention-your-body-will-thank-you/

 

Listening to podcasts has been another go-to D. I'm very picky about what I listen to; when it's right I find it very soothing to hear voices in conversation or storytelling. 

 

Here's a favorite: https://thisislovepodcast.com/something-large-and-wild-2/

I've listened to it many times.

 

In waves (no pun intended!) I've sometimes found the repetition of listening to/watching familiar media (podcast episodes, tv show episodes) calming. I think I've watched the entire Seinfeld catalogue several times over in past years! 

 

Do you have any favorite movies or tv shows (besides Star Wars & Co.)? Or do you prefer to read books? Any favorite books? 

 

1 hour ago, theopold said:

My favorite D is just talking, actually.  It helps, obviously, if you're talking to someone with whom you can at least reference the whole WD thing, but any kind of human interaction is definitely extremely helpful for me. 

 

I hear you. Human interaction can be the best (and sometimes worst) in WD. 

I think you've mentioned having two sisters, and that you recently spoke with one of your sisters on the phone? Have you shared with either of them what you're going through? Is there anyone in your life (off of SA) who knows about your WD travails? 

 

A while back I knew someone who was a great talker. I could call them and they'd just launch into an hour-long monologue about their new puppy or the news or tout et rien. It was glorious and such a blessing for where I was at with WD. I needed to be able to reach out and touch base with a live human being, and was way too depleted to talk or think or produce speech in any shape or form; and the other person needed to just talk talk talk talk and express themselves verbally, more or less indiscriminately. For a period of time it was one of those rare matches of perfect compatibility. 

 

I occasionally use the local equivalent of Good Samaritan hotlines. Some of their volunteers are exceptionally kind and good listeners, one can get lucky. Do you have anything like that available to you?

 

Sending healing vibes <3

Ariel

[theopold]

 @Ariel

 

Due to the time difference, I actually went to be while you were eating dinner last night, but I am glad to know you had a delicious dinner! 🙂

 

 

 

 

[theopold]

Thank you for your list of top D's, @Ariel

 

7 hours ago, Ariel said:

I so enjoy cooking and baking and puttering about the kitchen. Definitely one of my top Ds. 

This afternoon I baked a rhubarb cake for someone. I don't eat baked goods or sweets myself, and I'm always happy to bake up a storm for anyone else! Sometimes I bake cookies for friends who live in other cities and send them care packages. That's a great D.

 

 Ah, when I was a kid we had rhubarb plants growing in our yard, and my mother used to make rhubarb pies all the time!  And, about those cookie care packages....hint, hint!! 😄

 

7 hours ago, Ariel said:

Do you listen to podcasts?

 

This is not something I've done to date, but I will definitely check out the one's you mention.  And yes, I agree that you have to be "selective" about what you listen to when you're trying to distract yourself.

 

7 hours ago, Ariel said:

In waves (no pun intended!) I've sometimes found the repetition of listening to/watching familiar media (podcast episodes, tv show episodes) calming. I think I've watched the entire Seinfeld catalogue several times over in past years! 

 

Do you have any favorite movies or tv shows (besides Star Wars & Co.)? Or do you prefer to read books? Any favorite books? 

 

Wow!  A bit of a kindred spirit, you are.  Yes, I've been re-watching the entire Inspector Morse TV series!  I like to have it playing in the background when I'm resting on the couch and/or trying to sleep.  And yes, I often try to read a bit, especially for at least 30-60 minutes before bed.  Right now I'm reading My Side of the Mountain by Jean Craighead George.  I have a bunch of other books on my Kindle, but given my normal preference for thrillers, mysteries, etc, unfortunately some of them can be a little bit triggering, lol!!!! 😱

 

7 hours ago, Ariel said:

A while back I knew someone who was a great talker. I could call them and they'd just launch into an hour-long monologue about their new puppy or the news or tout et rien. It was glorious and such a blessing for where I was at with WD. I needed to be able to reach out and touch base with a live human being, and was way too depleted to talk or think or produce speech in any shape or form; and the other person needed to just talk talk talk talk and express themselves verbally, more or less indiscriminately. For a period of time it was one of those rare matches of perfect compatibility.

 

I definitely hear you on this, and even if only for a "period of time", I'm very pleased to know that you had a person like this in your life. 

 

7 hours ago, Ariel said:

I think you've mentioned having two sisters, and that you recently spoke with one of your sisters on the phone? Have you shared with either of them what you're going through? Is there anyone in your life (off of SA) who knows about your WD travails? 

 

Yes, both of my sisters are familiar with my current situation.  But, as I suspect often happens to many of us here, they are - lovingly - uncertain in there feelings/opinions when I talk about my situation being caused by the AD withdrawal.  In fact, they both have (young) adult children, and in both cases they have a child who is, or has been, on AD's...sigh.  And, in the case of one sister, she's actually going through an incredibly difficult time in her life right now, and...she's actually taking both a benzo and an AD herself. 

 

Which means, one, her ability to interact with me when I'm wanting to talk about my current challenges is understandably quite limited.  And two, kind of lying there in the background of our interactions is this...unspoken thing.  I'm just off these drugs, which I now consider to be the spawn of Satan, and she's currently viewing them as a crucial lifeline during this very difficult time in her life.  We can both work with this, but...it does still impact our conversations.

 

As to other folks in my life, I don't have any very close friends here and so with the friends I do have here, I really just limit it to very basic comments about how I may be experiencing some residual anxiety having to do with my recent serious health issues, and that I am also struggling a bit with insomnia...things like that.

 

7 hours ago, Ariel said:

I occasionally use the local equivalent of Good Samaritan hotlines. Some of their volunteers are exceptionally kind and good listeners, one can get lucky. Do you have anything like that available to you?

 

Yes, we have Samaritan hotlines here, but I haven't used this service - at least, not yet.  One unique challenge is that you have to actually call and leave a message, and then wait for a callback from someone who can actually speak English, lol.  Not necessarily an insurmountable obstacle to using this service, but...to this point I've held back on this.  Still, it's certainly an option going forward!   

 

[Ariel]

Hi @theopold

Thinking nice thoughts in your direction. 

 

To quote Longroadhome:

Keep going. Distract. 

 

Healing is happening <3

 

 

[theopold]

Hello my dear @Ariel

 

On 7/1/2024 at 11:38 PM, Ariel said:

Thinking nice thoughts in your direction. 

 

Right back at you ❤️ In my mind's eye, I see you happily puttering about your kitchen, and it makes my heart smile ☺️

[theopold]

Hello @Ariel

 

I could certainly use your kind and loving thoughts right now.  My insomnia seems to be getting worse of late.  As per our previous discussions, I am trying not to "fight" it, or "fix" it, etc.  I am instead endeavoring to turn towards it, or surrender to it, but with this particular symptom I'm really struggling to do so.  

 

For whatever reason, this insomnia issue is apparently a very strong source of anxiety and fear.  Specifically, I am obsessing over what will happen to me if the insomnia persists consistently over the course of several days....will I go crazy, will I die, will I have to be hospitalized??  

 

And, not for nothing, as I think many folks on here know...sometimes when reading comments on this site you can inadvertently trigger yourself.  In the case of the topic of insomnia, I'm not going to mention any specific comments here, but I unfortunately have seen a couple of posts mentioning very scary outcomes tied to what I at least hope are extreme cases of this issue. 

 

So yeah, I'm dealing with WD-induced insomnia, I read a few things that scared me, and now I'm adding the second fear of this issue which is obviously not helping.  Any reassuring thoughts, experiences, etc, Ariel?  I'm doing a lot of non-drug coping activities already, I feel, but I'm still struggling quite a bit.  So I guess I could use any advice you might have, along with the reassurance that I'm going to be OK 🙏  

[theopold]

Time for another update.  Surprisingly, a little bit of good news.  After almost 4 months of continuous GI symptoms, said problems seem to have finally abated.  I say, "seem to" because I don't want to jinx anything, lol, but...it's been over a week now without any issues...

 

OTOH, my psychological issues have been increasing pretty dramatically in recent days.  Specifically, DP/DR and intrusive/obsessive thoughts, along with a torturous fear of going crazy.  And my overall window/wave pattern has been changing as well.  I often now have waves that last days, with occasional breaks, or "windows" lasting maybe up to a few hours on a given day.  As with the windows I experienced in the early days of withdrawal, these brief windows often show up in the evening, and if I am very lucky on a given night, they will last until I am able to initially fall asleep. 

 

Looking back on this thread, I notice that at least a couple of my recent updates have referenced waves that seem to be worse than anything I'd previously experienced.  I mention this because the waves I've experienced over the last couple of days, once again, certainly FEEL like an even greater increase in intensity.  Even at this stage in my process, knowing as I do that these waves never last, and that they cannot "hurt" me, I am still very frightened, and most days I feel very alone and lost.  And so, I cling to my mantras as best I can...I am NOT dying, I am NOT going crazy, I am going to be OK.  Thoughts can't hurt me.  Anxiety cannot kill me.  I cannot think myself crazy.  This is NOT how my story ends.

 

I was talking with my sister recently.  As many here can relate, she is confused as to how I can still be experiencing withdrawal symptoms at this point.  She points to other folks she knows who have not experienced anything like what I am going through.  She politely suggests that she chooses to maintain faith in the medical establishment - and that Internet groups are just not as reliable as medically trained doctors, etc. 

 

I mention this here and now because, in the process of mentioning to my sister that I will not take any other drugs right now to ease my withdrawal symptoms based on the collective wisdom of many, many people on a certain "Internet group", haha, her response was...So, how long will you allow yourself to suffer without seeking the "help" of a medical professional? 

 

And, therein lies the rub - or, at least one of the rubs, yes?  Because, of course, the only answer one can give to that question is...I will wait - and suffer - as long as it takes.  Because, well because, what other answer is there?  Which leads me to perhaps the two most emotionally challenging mantras I carry around in my mind at the moment:  The first...One moment at a time, one step at a time;  this I will ask of myself, and no more.  And the second...My one and only job for today is to simply survive.           

[theopold]

Was just updating my signature, thought I'd post a quick update as well.  I had 3 days with almost zero sleep, so I took some Diphenhydramine for the first time last night.  Before doing so, I read comments from other folks here and it seems to be a bit of a toss up in terms of benefit?  For myself, I was able to get more sleep last night after taking it for the first time - for which, I am very grateful.  Woke up this morning with my usual cortisol spike (sigh) and I also felt quite groggy, which I assuming was from the Diphenhydramine.  Going forward, I plan to use if very sparingly.  

 

For whatever reason I just cannot successfully "turn in to" or "accept" the anxiety and fear I experience with my ongoing insomnia.  Not yet, anyway.  And, sadly this anxiety from the insomnia often bleeds into both my windows and waves.  Which is to say, even on a "good" day - or a good hour - my insomnia fear/worry tends to creep in at some point.  Even though I know it's not true, as implied above I just cannot stop the obsessive thoughts about insomnia eventually driving me crazy, or outright killing me.  I guess the only thing to do is to just live with it long enough to the point where it obviously isn't killing me...at which time maybe I'll then be able to get a handle on the fear?   Obviously, if anyone has some suggestions for handling this situation better I'd love to hear them...

 

Beyond that, it saddens me to confess...I'm pretty miserable most days.  I'm assuming I'm not alone when I say that sometimes I just cannot believe this is happening to me.  To be struggling and suffering like this is just...incredible.  I'm often reminded of that line from the Gordon Lightfoot song..."Does anyone know where the love of God goes when the waves turn the minutes to hours?"

 

 

 

  

[Dahlia50]

On 7/11/2024 at 12:07 PM, theopold said:

I'm pretty miserable most days.  I'm assuming I'm not alone when I say that sometimes I just cannot believe this is happening to me.  To be struggling and suffering like this is just...incredible. 

@theopold I also cannot understand how this happened to me. Suffer every day. Undoubtedly these terrible substances and too fast taper that caused it. 
Just wanted to say you are not alone. 💛

[theopold]

Hello @Dahlia50,

 

20 hours ago, Dahlia50 said:

I also cannot understand how this happened to me. Suffer every day. Undoubtedly these terrible substances and too fast taper that caused it. 
Just wanted to say you are not alone. 💛

 

Thank you very much for your comments.  I've read through your posts, and I know you are struggling lately.  And so, the fact that in the midst of your own challenges you took a few moments to post kind words to me here...it brings tears to my eyes.  Bless you, and please know that when I am lost in the darkness of another lonely, sleepless night, suffering in ways I had previously never thought even possible, I will think of the many wonderful people on this website such as yourself and I will remind myself...I am not alone 💝    

[RachaelWind]

On 7/11/2024 at 5:07 AM, theopold said:

Beyond that, it saddens me to confess...I'm pretty miserable most days.  I'm assuming I'm not alone when I say that sometimes I just cannot believe this is happening to me

I'm exactly where you are right now...I'm currently sitting in my car on break at work doing everything in me not to cry and scream. It's as though my brain seems detached from my body.

my reality seems so distorted presently.

I can't believe this is happening to me either...know you are definitely not alone.

Keep holding on to Faith...God will bring us to the other side of this ❤️

[theopold]

Hello @RachaelWind

 

4 hours ago, RachaelWind said:

I'm exactly where you are right now...I'm currently sitting in my car on break at work doing everything in me not to cry and scream. It's as though my brain seems detached from my body.

my reality seems so distorted presently.

I can't believe this is happening to me either...know you are definitely not alone.

Keep holding on to Faith...God will bring us to the other side of this ❤️

 

Thank you very much for your message.  And, I am so sorry you are exactly where I am right now!  Thank you as well for reminding me that none of us is alone, thanks to SA.  I had another very challenging day, but seeing your message here today brought me some much needed comfort.  You keep hanging in there as well, be kind to yourself, and please keep checking in as often as you need 💖

[Ariel]

@theopold

Thinking of you and sending healing vibes <3

[theopold]

8 hours ago, Ariel said:

@theopold

Thinking of you and sending healing vibes ❤️

 

Hello my dear Ariel ☺️  I hope you are well, and please know that you too are often in my thoughts! 💝

[Ariel]

Hi @theopold

Thank you for your sweet, supportive message in my thread <3

Thinking nice thoughts in your direction, sending healing vibes,

Ariel

 

[Ariel]

Hi @theopold

How are you going?

 

Hemly recently shared this video in their thread (which might be worth a read, by the way). I watched it with appreciation and thought about some of what we've discussed before. The video offers some useful clarifications and puts into simple, practical terms some concepts that can sometimes seem quite cerebral.

 

Thinking of you and sending healing vibes ❤️

Ariel