ScaredDad: Lexapro Reinstatement Help

[ScaredDad]

Hi. I’m Still Standing. I’ve seen some progress. Going back to focusing on it now and staying off here as much as I can. Just wanted to let you all know. Thanks as always!

 

SD

[Catwoman73]

I'm so glad you're hanging in there!  I was just thinking about you through the night, lying there awake lol.  I hope the baby is doing well, and sleeping like a champ!  Sending hugs! 

[LostInCanada]

4 hours ago, ScaredDad said:

staying off here as much as I can

Sometimes that is best.

Glad you are seeing some improvement. Best no changes then.

 

Sending hugs to you and your family.♥️🙏🤗

[ScaredDad]

@Sebas @LostInCanada, @FindPeace

(FP will not like this lol), @Catwoman73have you ever heard of anything like this? It’s happened three times now. From 2.5 to 2.30. From 2.30 to 2.28 and from 2.28 to 2.26.

 

every time I drop I feel better for like 4 days before feeling the same level of crap again? I want to hold but just don’t know because it feels better almost moving down? I know Sebas mentioned something about this related to tolerance but I don’t think that’s why I have it. I just think my body is telling me to keep going? 

[LostInCanada]

34 minutes ago, ScaredDad said:

related to tolerance

@Sebas is right. Tolerance, poop out. I am in the same place. The problem is when you speed it up you get worse withdrawals. I think I mentioned this to you awhile back but your reaction really confirms it. 

My suggestion is read over poop out, tolerance etc. 

Micro doses for tapering seem to work best...just don't rush it. You can safely drop every week, just do a hold for 2 weeks after 4 drops. (Brassmonkey slide) 

[brassmonkey]

That is a very common symptom pattern. The effects of a reduction can be felt anywhere from immediately to several weeks after the drop. It's all about how an individual body reacts to the medication. This pattern could go on for a while and then change to feeling it within a few hours. Tolerance or poopout, does not happen while a person is actively tapering. It is associated with staying on the initial dose for many years or taking extended holds (well over six months) while tapering.

 

Things may feel better right after a reduction and be an incentive to keep reducing. But there is a lot of things happening in the background that are not being felt, that need to be allowed to resolve before the next reduction is taken. If this hold time does not happen, then the unresolved issues build up until they are overpowering and cause a serious crash. It can take months to stabilize from the crash and the body is left sensitized to further dose changes, making tapering more difficult.

[LotusRising]

1 hour ago, ScaredDad said:

every time I drop I feel better for like 4 days before feeling the same level of crap again?

This is very common and can be deceiving. It's like the body responds to the decreased drug burden with a sigh of relief, which is when you feel great, and then the reduction is felt, which is the WD symptoms. Be careful because symptoms can pile up if you go too fast. 

[ScaredDad]

@brassmonkey

@LostInCanada

@LotusRising

 

thanks everyone, last Q. The weirdest thing about this is despite severe insomnia and distress causing me to be worthless and not work, my heart is stone cold. What I mean by that is ZERO heart racing, palps, anything. And my BP used to be around 130/85 and I consistently am getting 110/60 range readings the last few weeks. Have you ever heard of that? I would think it’d be the opposite. 
 

that plus not being able to sweat weird me out. Oh and I cannot stop eating everything in site. All while being in the verge of SI thoughts 

[Catwoman73]

Sorry I missed the party lol!  No idea how I missed your notifications.

 

From what I've seen, some people's BP gets low while tapering, and for others it gets high.  Are you having any symptoms of low BP- dizziness or 'grey-outs' when you stand up too quickly, for example?  If not, I wouldn't worry about it.  That BP is very healthy!

 

You also have to consider that you are no longer working, or putting pressure on yourself to get back to work.  Stress is a major driver of higher blood pressure.  Despite your withdrawal, maybe this is a sign that slowing down longer term might be a healthy way to go for you!

 

The eating thing made me laugh a bit- so many people can't eat at all!  Of course you're running opposite to the crowd lol.  Maybe a sign of gut healing?  Hard to say, but just try to keep it healthy lol... the last thing you need is to develop coronary artery disease while you're going through this! 

[LostInCanada]

1 hour ago, ScaredDad said:

that plus not being able to sweat weird me out. Oh and I cannot stop eating everything in site. All while being in the verge of SI thoughts 

Nothing surprises me. These drugs mess up absolutely everything in our body. My whole ability to regulate my temperature, sweat, etc is so messed up. Our nervous system is in overdrive. It's crazy for sure. 

[Schmeg82]

1 hour ago, ScaredDad said:

@brassmonkey

@LostInCanada

@LotusRising

 

thanks everyone, last Q. The weirdest thing about this is despite severe insomnia and distress causing me to be worthless and not work, my heart is stone cold. What I mean by that is ZERO heart racing, palps, anything. And my BP used to be around 130/85 and I consistently am getting 110/60 range readings the last few weeks. Have you ever heard of that? I would think it’d be the opposite. 
 

that plus not being able to sweat weird me out. Oh and I cannot stop eating everything in site. All while being in the verge of SI thoughts 

I had the same BP issues on and off my Paxil, mine was pretty high (for me) it would be 140/90 ish consistently, no lower then 120/80, now that I’m in withdrawal my BP has been as low as 90/60, now it’s been a consistent 110/70 which is perfect and I’m happy but it’s so strange!  Even the 90/60 isn’t bad, that’s the lowest you want to go but your BP is perfect.  

[Emonda]

Morning SD (well, it's morning here anyway).

 

I listened to a tapering Zoom with Dr Horowitz a few hours ago. He made a few comments which I thought I'd repeat...nothing you haven't heard, but worth repeating anyway.

 

5 hours ago, ScaredDad said:

I want to hold but just don’t know because it feels better almost moving down?

 

When it comes to tapering, the tortise beats the hare. Those who speed up get themselves into trouble. Brain adaptations to the drug need to be undone slowly. Smaller and slower steps = more manageable WD symptoms. Also, the lower you go, the slower you will need to go. Dr H talked about the law of mass action. That is, smaller doses have a larger impact on the receptors.

 

2 hours ago, ScaredDad said:

my heart is stone cold. What I mean by that is ZERO heart racing, palps, anything. And my BP used to be around 130/85 and I consistently am getting 110/60 range readings the last few weeks. Have you ever heard of that?

 

Dr H mentioned that these drugs impact every part of the body, not just the brain. With that in mind, I'm not surprised to read about these other symptoms.

 

I hope all is going well with the new baby.

[Sonia009]

1 hour ago, Schmeg82 said:

I had the same BP issues on and off my Paxil, mine was pretty high (for me) it would be 140/90 ish consistently, no lower then 120/80, now that I’m in withdrawal my BP has been as low as 90/60, now it’s been a consistent 110/70 which is perfect and I’m happy but it’s so strange!  Even the 90/60 isn’t bad, that’s the lowest you want to go but your BP is perfect.  

@Schmeg82 @ScaredDad Same here, my bp readings are similar to above since withdrawal.😊

[ScaredDad]

1 hour ago, Schmeg82 said:

I had the same BP issues on and off my Paxil, mine was pretty high (for me) it would be 140/90 ish consistently, no lower then 120/80, now that I’m in withdrawal my BP has been as low as 90/60, now it’s been a consistent 110/70 which is perfect and I’m happy but it’s so strange!  Even the 90/60 isn’t bad, that’s the lowest you want to go but your BP is perfect.  

Just so strange it would reduce I mean I always hear the opposite. I hate these drugs with a passion they touch everything..

[Catwoman73]

15 hours ago, ScaredDad said:

Just so strange it would reduce I mean I always hear the opposite. I hate these drugs with a passion they touch everything..

It is strange.  Everything about this journey is strange!  The strangeness of the situation has actually helped me though- I look at the odd symptoms as interesting rather than distressing.  That's my ridiculously optimistic self shining through lol!

 

I hope you're doing ok today, and I hope baby is settling in nicely, and allowing all of you to get a little bit of sleep!

[ScaredDad]

17 hours ago, Catwoman73 said:

The eating thing made me laugh a bit- so many people can't eat at all!  Of course you're running opposite to the crowd lol.  Maybe a sign of gut healing?

No kidding just so weird but idk I hope. Or maybe my body needed fuel to regrow my brain.

18 minutes ago, Catwoman73 said:

hope you're doing ok today, and I hope baby is settling in nicely, and allowing all of you to get a little bit of sleep!

I’m hanging in there. She’s doing great and sleep wasn’t happening regardless so it is what it is. Thanks as always Catwoman!

[LostInCanada]

4 minutes ago, ScaredDad said:

She’s doing great and sleep wasn’t happening regardless so it is what it is

What a gift this precious one is. My two baby girls are 38 and 40 now. You are going to be okay. You got this. 💯♥️👍

[ScaredDad]

Reassurance post. Recently I was noticing a reduction in my physical symptoms and was extremely excited about that. However, the past few days I’ve see an increase in severe depression. As is like anhedonia. I can’t feel anything. I have an extreme sadness over this feeling but I don’t have sadness about other things. Like if something happened that would usually make me sad it wouldn’t make me sad now. Does that make sense?

 

this is some ways is the scariest thing yet. I don’t feel human. I just feel existence. Please someone tell me these things fade as well. What could have changed to make this come on? Before it was just physical with anxiety. I’ve never had depression in my life.

 

i was holding my daughter asleep on my bare chest last night and felt nothing… I sobbed with no tears

 

[Sebas]

Depression can sometimes arise as a wd symptom, may feel very real but is caused by sudden serotonine/dopamine disbalance and therefore given the circumstances not authentic. Has anything changed in your daily routines or diet a couple of days ago? You'll be fine - although it can be very unpleasant - as it normally won't last long. 

[WillBeHereTomorrow]

34 minutes ago, ScaredDad said:

Reassurance post. Recently I was noticing a reduction in my physical symptoms and was extremely excited about that. However, the past few days I’ve see an increase in severe depression. As is like anhedonia. I can’t feel anything. I have an extreme sadness over this feeling but I don’t have sadness about other things. Like if something happened that would usually make me sad it wouldn’t make me sad now. Does that make sense?

 

this is some ways is the scariest thing yet. I don’t feel human. I just feel existence. Please someone tell me these things fade as well. What could have changed to make this come on? Before it was just physical with anxiety. I’ve never had depression in my life.

 

i was holding my daughter asleep on my bare chest last night and felt nothing… I sobbed with no tears

 

Although my situation is a bit different I can relate in many ways.

 

I got kindled hard due to a med switch when in withdrawal. Had akathisia, insomnia, felt like my brain was on fire, couldn't sit still, had to stand or pace the whole time. This went on for many weeks until I dropped the med.

 

When I reinstated Effexor my nervous system started to relax more and more. With it came fatigue, anhedonia and severe depression. Of course this comes in windows and waves. Now I can't say if this is typical in a kindling/hypersensitivity scenario when the nervous system is healing. My depression was at its worse two weeks ago but slowly seeing improvements in that as well. 

 

This is a slow process and I feel your pain @ScaredDad. One day at a time, in withdrawal symptoms are always morphing. This too will pass as all things do.

[LostInCanada]

3 hours ago, ScaredDad said:

Please someone tell me these things fade as well. What could have changed to make this come on? Before it was just physical with anxiety. I’ve never had depression in my life.

This is common unfortunately. It will fade. You will feel again. Remember the wave window pattern. Your body is realigning which affects other areas that then need to realign.

 Your body is putting energy into what deems most important at the time.

Don't fight it, accept it, allow time. ♥️

[Schmeg82]

3 hours ago, ScaredDad said:

Reassurance post. Recently I was noticing a reduction in my physical symptoms and was extremely excited about that. However, the past few days I’ve see an increase in severe depression. As is like anhedonia. I can’t feel anything. I have an extreme sadness over this feeling but I don’t have sadness about other things. Like if something happened that would usually make me sad it wouldn’t make me sad now. Does that make sense?

 

this is some ways is the scariest thing yet. I don’t feel human. I just feel existence. Please someone tell me these things fade as well. What could have changed to make this come on? Before it was just physical with anxiety. I’ve never had depression in my life.

 

i was holding my daughter asleep on my bare chest last night and felt nothing… I sobbed with no tears

 

I honestly think this whole process gives us emotions that we’ve never felt or delt with before in life.   just being in withdrawal itself is very depressing.  I’ve felt the same way recently, just numb to everything, like if I died it would almost be a relief and I’ve never felt that way before in my life and it’s an awful thing to say or think because I have so much to live for!  I’m trying to redirect my mind to more positive things even when I’m feeling really bad, which has been helpful.  These are feelings we’ve never had before so we know for sure it’s withdrawal and not us and it will go away!  

[Catwoman73]

4 hours ago, ScaredDad said:

i was holding my daughter asleep on my bare chest last night and felt nothing… I sobbed with no tears

 

OMG @ScaredDad- I so understand this.  I know I've told you about my postpartum depression and psychosis.  This was me.  I felt zero attachment to my daughter.  Then she had a massive stroke, and I blamed myself- my crazy logic being that if I felt like I loved her, it wouldn't have happened.  It is horrible, and my heart breaks for you.

 

There is light though- it got better for me, and it will get better for you too.  Continue to be patient, and trust the process.  It is normal for withdrawal symptoms to morph and change over time.  The fact that you are heartbroken that you feel nothing for your new daughter tells me that the emotion is still there- it's just buried under the biochemical craziness that is your brain right now.  Please just hang in there, and repeat the mantra "I am healing" over and over.  You can do this- you are so incredibly strong.  I think about you every day. ❤️

[LostInCanada]

38 minutes ago, Catwoman73 said:

fact that you are heartbroken that you feel nothing for your new daughter tells me that the emotion is still there- it's just buried under the biochemical craziness that is your brain right now

This is so true. I remember I couldn't smile or even imagine laughing again. I read that one person forced themself to smile when ever seeing their reflection and it helped them. So I tried it....I would be crying looking in the mirror and forcing a smile. It was like the brain had to relearn it. Don't underestimate going through the motions. It definitely will help. 💯

[ScaredDad]

Everyone, too many responses to write a response to individually but seriously thank you so so much. It means the world that yall are out here to help support me. From the bottom of my heart thank you. 

[Emonda]

8 hours ago, ScaredDad said:

Reassurance post. Recently I was noticing a reduction in my physical symptoms and was extremely excited about that. However, the past few days I’ve see an increase in severe depression.

 

Morning SD,

Lots of wonderful replies above. I'd encourage you to keep this checklist on hand.

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

I reflect on it at least weekly for reassurance when needed for myself...or others on this site 😊

 

8 hours ago, ScaredDad said:

i was holding my daughter asleep on my bare chest last night and felt nothing… I sobbed with no tears

 

I have a photo on my desk of one of my kids at a month or two old, sound asleep on my chest, too. It made me a little emotional just reflecting back a few decades! I do know I was emotionally numb at the time care of Sertraline (couldn't cry)....I have plenty of "normal" emotions these days as the amount of AD is reduced. You'll get there, too.

 

You're doing great, mate.

[ScaredDad]

Can someone please answer this. Note I am not asking you to say this for my case just generally. 
 

is it not at all possible the lexapro is making me worse? I felt like I was improving before my doctor increased me to 10. Following that and the decrease I felt a little better on 1 than 10. But then I was increased to 2.5 and that’s when it all hit the fan. To be totally honest with you besides maybe 6 days since moving to 2.5mg I have gotten worse. I really and truly have, I know that. 
 

if having adverse reactions they’d build irritation of the cns. I’m on the verge here. I’ve never ever ever been closer to doing something dramatic. And before I made the ultimate choice I would try one last thing. To get off this once and for all like I should’ve done a lone time ago, before reinstating.

[LostInCanada]

44 minutes ago, ScaredDad said:

my doctor increased me to 10. Following that and the decrease I felt a little better on 1 than 10. But then I was increased to 2.5 and that’s when it all hit the fan.

Definitely waiting on 1 mg and giving it time would have been the better choice.

46 minutes ago, ScaredDad said:

I’ve never ever ever been closer to doing something dramatic.

The best thing would be to continue to slowly and regularly drop your dose. Every week you could drop 2.5% for 4 weeks and then do a 2 week hold. If you are thinking of going cold turkey, this would be a much better option. You could also try a day or two making your own liquid and see if your body handles that better. If you are thinking of doing something dramatic, these may be worth investigating first.

[Catwoman73]

56 minutes ago, ScaredDad said:

Can someone please answer this. Note I am not asking you to say this for my case just generally. 
 

is it not at all possible the lexapro is making me worse? I felt like I was improving before my doctor increased me to 10. Following that and the decrease I felt a little better on 1 than 10. But then I was increased to 2.5 and that’s when it all hit the fan. To be totally honest with you besides maybe 6 days since moving to 2.5mg I have gotten worse. I really and truly have, I know that. 
 

if having adverse reactions they’d build irritation of the cns. I’m on the verge here. I’ve never ever ever been closer to doing something dramatic. And before I made the ultimate choice I would try one last thing. To get off this once and for all like I should’ve done a lone time ago, before reinstating.

Because of the way your dosing was so up and down, I'm leaning towards severe nervous system instability rather than adverse reaction.  I think you're in a terrible wave, likely precipitated by the stress of your daughter's birth.  That is a lot for people who are well, let alone someone in severe withdrawal.  But you know yourself best, and you know we're here to support you, no matter what decision you make. 

 

I do tend to agree with LostInCanada though- I don't think a cold turkey is necessarily the answer.  Honestly, ANYTHING you do at this point has the potential to make you worse rather than better.  You have to weigh all the pros and cons of different plans, and trust your gut.  I wish there was a nice flow diagram that we could follow here, but it's more of an art than a science.

 

LostInCanada gave the option of a Brassmonkey taper, which could be good for you both physically and mentally.  I like how active this kind of tapering is- I think it would buoy your spirits knowing that you are making progress, rather than just holding indefinitely.  I think if you're leaning towards cold turkey though, maybe you could consider a larger drop first (like, maybe a full mg), just to see how you handle it, rather than dropping altogether.  

 

I wish we had better answers for you, and I'm so sorry that these early days with your daughter are being affected by this.  I know you will heal- just keep believing!  

[LostInCanada]

4 minutes ago, Catwoman73 said:

I think if you're leaning towards cold turkey though, maybe you could consider a larger drop first (like, maybe a full mg), just to see how you handle it, rather than dropping altogether.  

If you feel the need to test the waters, it would be more prudent to try a one time 10% drop-0.226 mg  and see if there is any fall out. But due to your sensitivity I think a gentler approach would be easier on you. ❤️

[Catwoman73]

4 minutes ago, LostInCanada said:

If you feel the need to test the waters, it would be more prudent to try a one time 10% drop-0.226 mg  and see if there is any fall out. But due to your sensitivity I think a gentler approach would be easier on you. ❤️

Agreed- wholeheartedly.  Gentle is always best, particularly in your state.  I don't love the idea of a large drop AT ALL.  But I would rather see a big drop than a CT.  Maybe a 10% drop would be a nice middle ground @ScaredDad?

[Dee12h]

On 6/26/2024 at 3:44 PM, ScaredDad said:

@brassmonkey

@LostInCanada

@LotusRising

 

thanks everyone, last Q. The weirdest thing about this is despite severe insomnia and distress causing me to be worthless and not work, my heart is stone cold. What I mean by that is ZERO heart racing, palps, anything. And my BP used to be around 130/85 and I consistently am getting 110/60 range readings the last few weeks. Have you ever heard of that? I would think it’d be the opposite. 
 

that plus not being able to sweat weird me out. Oh and I cannot stop eating everything in site. All while being in the verge of SI thoughts 

These are lex side effects for me.

[Emonda]

7 hours ago, ScaredDad said:

I felt like I was improving before my doctor increased me to 10. Following that and the decrease I felt a little better on 1 than 10.

 

7 hours ago, ScaredDad said:

But then I was increased to 2.5 and that’s when it all hit the fan.

 

I think we're all on the same page with this. The doctors let you down, and you're now paying the price.

 

Time, patience and a very slow taper are the way out of this.

 

When making changes, small changes are the way to go; sit back and monitor how you respond, then reassess.

 

6 hours ago, LostInCanada said:

The best thing would be to continue to slowly and regularly drop your dose. Every week you could drop 2.5% for 4 weeks and then do a 2 week hold.

 

I'd be doing this.

 

As Dr Horowitz says in his book, An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Or, the tortoise always beats the hare in relation to tapering. If you were to CT I'm confident I know what the outcome will be (I tried it 6 times before finding this site, and it wasn't pretty). Dr Horowitz refers to this as white-knuckling it - not recommended in 99.99% of cases.

 

7 hours ago, ScaredDad said:

And before I made the ultimate choice I would try one last thing

 

A final CT caution: Dr H mentioned it can take up to 4 years for brain re-adaptations to occur (I think he said from a CT, but I can't recall where I heard it to verify if I have the CT scenario right...he definitely said up to 4 years - LotusRising & LostinCanada heard it too I think...maybe they can correct me if required). 

 

You've been patient. The next step is slowly tapering off....this is the ounce of prevention you need to accept to avoid the pound of cure (~4 years for brain re-adaptions).

 

I hope my ramblings are somewhat helpful.

 

Emonda

[ScaredDad]

3 hours ago, Emonda said:

I hope my ramblings are somewhat helpful.

Your ramblings are always helpful Emonda. And always appreciated. I just can’t get over that these symptoms are so distinctly related to the increase. I didn’t have these symptoms off the drug (they were totally different) then had these symptoms on 10mg and then I didn’t on 1 and now I do on 2.24. Just the way someone who never went though this or didn’t know anything about this would think would be: ok, well then if these symptoms weren’t here on 1.00mg then go there. 
 

Knowing that’s not the safest call just laying out my lizard brain logic in my current experience 

[ScaredDad]

Are you guys sure we can find REAL stability holding? Like even if it was a year, or two, we’d get to somewhat normal

[Schmeg82]

3 minutes ago, ScaredDad said:

Are you guys sure we can find REAL stability holding? Like even if it was a year, or two, we’d get to somewhat normal

I’ve been holding for 4 months going on 5 this month, I plan on holding at least 6-7 months, I’ve been in withdrawal for 7 months at the end of this month.  I reinstated back to 1/2 of my dose (I started having symptoms at 5mg) I’ve read some people take 6 months to a year to stabilize so I’m hanging on as well.  People do stabilize sometimes it just takes a lot longer.