Bawneen

[Bawneen]

23 minutes ago, Erimus said:

Are you following the instructions I gave you?

 

Measure up 50ml of water.

Add 5mg escitalopram tablet.

Draw up 5ml.

 

Taking a 10mg tablet is far too much of a shock to your system. If you are struggling to make the dose as I've described, can you ask your doctor to be prescribed the liquid?

Hi, yes I had done as you said but was getting no let up in symptoms after 5 days, so increased to 5 mg myself.  Then doc said to increase to 10 mg.  There are no liquid forms of the tablets here in Ireland and my doctor is totally unsympathetic, believes these are just the original symptoms and will not give anything else to combat these awful symptoms.  

[Catwoman73]

15 minutes ago, Bawneen said:

Hi, yes I had done as you said but was getting no let up in symptoms after 5 days, so increased to 5 mg myself.  Then doc said to increase to 10 mg.  There are no liquid forms of the tablets here in Ireland and my doctor is totally unsympathetic, believes these are just the original symptoms and will not give anything else to combat these awful symptoms.  

So you've basically gone from 0mg back to 10mg in about a week?  Am I getting this right?  Did you only take the 10mg just once- today?  And how many days at 5mg?  It would help greatly if you would update your drug signature with the changes you have made so that we can help you figure out the best course of action.  You can see in my more recent history below, I give specific dates that I have made changes.  I just do a quick update with each change, so that when I need help down the road, everyone will be able to see what I've done.

 

Don't panic- what's done is done.  I've made my share of mistakes over the years- a couple of months ago when I was super stressed out, I took an extra dose one day.  It happens.  And I was fine. 

 

I'm so sorry you have an unsympathetic doctor.  Mine is very much the same.  I can almost sense him rolling his eyes when I discuss tapering slowly.  Unfortunately, most doctors are completely unaware of how rapid tapering can impact us.  They have been listening to the pharmaceutical companies, that basically state that any withdrawal experienced is short lived and mild.  That's why groups like this exist!  Don't worry, we can help you with calculations, and figuring all of this out. 

[Erimus]

29 minutes ago, Bawneen said:

Hi, yes I had done as you said but was getting no let up in symptoms after 5 days, so increased to 5 mg myself.  Then doc said to increase to 10 mg.  There are no liquid forms of the tablets here in Ireland and my doctor is totally unsympathetic, believes these are just the original symptoms and will not give anything else to combat these awful symptoms.  

5 days is much too soon to adjudge the success of a reinstatement. I would advise not going to your doctor for advice regarding withdrawal and tapering. They are not familiar with the practice of small doses.

 

You must decide if you wish to persevere with the methods we have described here, or if you are to put your health in the hands of your GP.

[Bawneen]

9 minutes ago, Catwoman73 said:

So you've basically gone from 0mg back to 10mg in about a week?  Am I getting this right?  Did you only take the 10mg just once- today?  And how many days at 5mg?  It would help greatly if you would update your drug signature with the changes you have made so that we can help you figure out the best course of action.  You can see in my more recent history below, I give specific dates that I have made changes.  I just do a quick update with each change, so that when I need help down the road, everyone will be able to see what I've done.

 

Don't panic- what's done is done.  I've made my share of mistakes over the years- a couple of months ago when I was super stressed out, I took an extra dose one day.  It happens.  And I was fine. 

 

I'm so sorry you have an unsympathetic doctor.  Mine is very much the same.  I can almost sense him rolling his eyes when I discuss tapering slowly.  Unfortunately, most doctors are completely unaware of how rapid tapering can impact us.  They have been listening to the pharmaceutical companies, that basically state that any withdrawal experienced is short lived and mild.  That's why groups like this exist!  Don't worry, we can help you with calculations, and figuring all of this out. 

I've tried to add to profile - how do I change it?  Sorry, a lot of this is confusing.  I'd gone from 0 mg to  to tapering as per instructions by @Erimus for 5 days and then freaked out as symptoms were just awful and took 5 mg for 2 days and doctor said to take 10 mg which was today only.  So basically I've jumped in the space of a week. I'll go back to tapering - this is all so frightening.  But I get bad close to bed time - it's midnight where I am.  Thanks 

[Catwoman73]

47 minutes ago, Bawneen said:

I've tried to add to profile - how do I change it?  Sorry, a lot of this is confusing.  I'd gone from 0 mg to  to tapering as per instructions by @Erimus for 5 days and then freaked out as symptoms were just awful and took 5 mg for 2 days and doctor said to take 10 mg which was today only.  So basically I've jumped in the space of a week. I'll go back to tapering - this is all so frightening.  But I get bad close to bed time - it's midnight where I am.  Thanks 

This link should take you right to your signature page- you can just add on your recent changes to your previous signature, and click Save.  I know it's super confusing to try to navigate a new website- if you ever have questions, just ask!  We're here to help!

 

Given that you've only been on higher doses for 3 days, I think you should be fine to drop back to 0.5mg right away, and hold for a while- I would say at least a week.  You will continue to have symptom waves- that is a normal part of the process.  If your symptoms haven't improved after a week, you could increase the dose slightly.  Finding the correct reinstatement dose is a bit of an experiment, and the idea is to move slowly, making note of how you are feeling day to day.  Keeping a symptom journal is very helpful- click here for a list of withdrawal symptoms that you could use as a template to track your own symptoms. 

 

I know it's scary.  Truly, I do.  Learning some non-drug methods of coping with symptoms is essential to success in my experience.   Meditation and calming music can be a huge help.  Over time, you will learn what methods help you, but it will take some patience and experimentation.  

 

[Musiclover]

@Bawneen I would humbly suggest that jumping up and down doses over short periods of time is not going to help you (this is not a comment on Catwoman73’s specific advice above, just in general). Try and find the dosage level at which you can stabilise and hold it there for long enough to allow your system to catch up. It may be rocky for a while but I believe you can get to some level of okay-ness and then see what you do from there. But you do need to decide which paradigm you follow, the medical profession’s or that of a peer-support group like this which is based on people’s actual experience.

 

I know which I prefer, and that’s after having several years of the medical perspective and then realising that from that point of view, I would probably be on the meds for the rest of my life. I have decided that, scary and all as it is, tapering slowly and gradually is the way to go, with no big jumps along the way so that my body and brain can adjust to small decrements. Now I am early in my tapering journey so time will tell how this goes but I am determined to give it a real chance, even if it takes several years. It’s either that or risk the consequences and side-effects of long-term medication, which I am already seeing in blood results.

 

I don’t mean to detract from your experience by going into my own but maybe sharing a little might help. Hang on in there and try to give the advice you’ve been given a proper chance, if you can. 

[Catwoman73]

22 minutes ago, Musiclover said:

@Bawneen I would humbly suggest that jumping up and down doses over short periods of time is not going to help you.

Yes, I agree with this wholeheartedly!  My thought is that, given the short period of time on the higher doses, it would likely be fine to drop back down to 0.5mg, knowing that there is risk when reinstating too high.  But yes, stability is absolutely key- finding a dose that allows you to live in a 'withdrawal normal' state is what we are looking for here.  Thank you for clarifying @Musiclover!

[Bawneen]

9 hours ago, Catwoman73 said:

Yes, I agree with this wholeheartedly!  My thought is that, given the short period of time on the higher doses, it would likely be fine to drop back down to 0.5mg, knowing that there is risk when reinstating too high.  But yes, stability is absolutely key- finding a dose that allows you to live in a 'withdrawal normal' state is what we are looking for here.  Thank you for clarifying @Musiclover!

Hi @Catwoman73 I noticed in your profile you use the acronym LDN - what does that mean? Lower dosage ..? I began to reinstate at 0.5 mg today as I dropped from 2.5 to 0 mg which threw me into a downward spiral and this is where the nightmare began. 

[Bawneen]

10 hours ago, Musiclover said:

@Bawneen I would humbly suggest that jumping up and down doses over short periods of time is not going to help you (this is not a comment on Catwoman73’s specific advice above, just in general). Try and find the dosage level at which you can stabilise and hold it there for long enough to allow your system to catch up. It may be rocky for a while but I believe you can get to some level of okay-ness and then see what you do from there. But you do need to decide which paradigm you follow, the medical profession’s or that of a peer-support group like this which is based on people’s actual experience.

 

I know which I prefer, and that’s after having several years of the medical perspective and then realising that from that point of view, I would probably be on the meds for the rest of my life. I have decided that, scary and all as it is, tapering slowly and gradually is the way to go, with no big jumps along the way so that my body and brain can adjust to small decrements. Now I am early in my tapering journey so time will tell how this goes but I am determined to give it a real chance, even if it takes several years. It’s either that or risk the consequences and side-effects of long-term medication, which I am already seeing in blood results.

 

I don’t mean to detract from your experience by going into my own but maybe sharing a little might help. Hang on in there and try to give the advice you’ve been given a proper chance, if you can. 

Thanks for this.  The shock to my system has been truly awful.  Tapering from 15 mg down to 2.5 mg wasn't too bad but then I dropped to 0 mg and it was a case of crash and burn @Erimus suggested 0.5mg and I did it for a few days with zero effect so took it upon myself to go back up to 5 mg - felt a little better but as you know my doc said 10 mg and I grabbed at any hope to reduce these horrible withdrawal symptoms.  My age is a big factor for me. At 68 I've decided to reinstate until I feel "normal" and then consider tapering again.  But sadly here in Ireland we don't seem to have any awareness of this issue at all.  My pharmacist is sound thankfully.

[Musiclover]

6 hours ago, Bawneen said:

@Erimus suggested 0.5mg and I did it for a few days with zero effect so took it upon myself to go back up to 5 mg

 

As Erimus has already said, a few days is not enough time to make a judgment about any change in dosage. You need to give it several weeks, or even longer. 

[Bawneen]

57 minutes ago, Musiclover said:

 

As Erimus has already said, a few days is not enough time to make a judgment about any change in dosage. You need to give it several weeks, or even longer. 

Oh I know that now.  Was commenting on what I did.

[Bawneen]

Question for those in the know here re dissolving pill in water.  I'm dissolving 5 mg of Escitalopram in 50 ml of water and drawing up 5 ml with syringe.  I'm throwing rest down the sink - can it be kept over in fridge for next day? Or is that not the way to go?  Thanks in advance

[Catwoman73]

9 hours ago, Bawneen said:

Hi @Catwoman73 I noticed in your profile you use the acronym LDN - what does that mean? Lower dosage ..? I began to reinstate at 0.5 mg today as I dropped from 2.5 to 0 mg which threw me into a downward spiral and this is where the nightmare began. 

LDN is low dose naltrexone.  It is used as a treatment for long covid, which I have been suffering from for two years.  I don't really know if it's helping yet, but I have not likely optimized my dose yet.  I'm only taking 1.5mg, and 4.5mg is the typical dosage for long covid.  I'm increasing VERY slowly, because I am also tapering my escitalopram at the same time, and I want to be sure I can tease out what is giving me trouble when problems arise.  

5 minutes ago, Bawneen said:

Question for those in the know here re dissolving pill in water.  I'm dissolving 5 mg of Escitalopram in 50 ml of water and drawing up 5 ml with syringe.  I'm throwing rest down the sink - can it be kept over in fridge for next day? Or is that not the way to go?  Thanks in advance

Homemade liquids don't last longer than 3-4 days in the fridge.  Store in a dark coloured glass bottle.  Personally, I don't take my chances, and just create a fresh dose every day.  But I don't pay for my medication lol, so I don't mind the waste!

[Musiclover]

37 minutes ago, Bawneen said:

Oh I know that now.  Was commenting on what I did.

 

Ah right! 🙂

 

27 minutes ago, Catwoman73 said:

But I don't pay for my medication lol, so I don't mind the waste!

 

That's fortunate. They cost an arm and a leg here, unless you have a medical card which is means tested.

[Catwoman73]

1 hour ago, Musiclover said:

That's fortunate. They cost an arm and a leg here, unless you have a medical card which is means tested.

They would here as well, but both my husband and I have great drug plans through our employers, so we don't pay a penny for most meds.  We are very fortunate in so many ways!

[Bawneen]

14 hours ago, Catwoman73 said:

LDN is low dose naltrexone.  It is used as a treatment for long covid, which I have been suffering from for two years.  I don't really know if it's helping yet, but I have not likely optimized my dose yet.  I'm only taking 1.5mg, and 4.5mg is the typical dosage for long covid.  I'm increasing VERY slowly, because I am also tapering my escitalopram at the same time, and I want to be sure I can tease out what is giving me trouble when problems arise.  

Homemade liquids don't last longer than 3-4 days in the fridge.  Store in a dark coloured glass bottle.  Personally, I don't take my chances, and just create a fresh dose every day.  But I don't pay for my medication lol, so I don't mind the waste!

Ah you were referring to another drug. Wasn't sure. Being new here I'm struggling with things. I'm on a medical card so I don't have to pay for mine either but thanks for the information. This is day 3 of reinstation  50 ml water, 5 mg dissolved and 5 ml drawn up.  I've no idea how many mg I'm taking.  Numbers and me do not get along, it's nearly like have numerical dyslexia lol.  I downloaded the spreadsheet of tapering but it's not clear to me at all. Maths was never my forte in school.  So day 3 and I'm feeling very fragile, I haven't been in my studio in a week but I'm really trying to just get out for a walk as it does help. Some of the stories here talk of wanting to sleep all the time. Even with 10 mg of Stilnocht I struggle but I'm crawling under the duvet in the afternoons just for comfort.  My limbic brain has always been overcharged so I'm forcing myself to stay in the cortex part of the brain, where the grown ups are!  Tim Fletcher is good on this subject.  I've been thinking so much of the childhood trauma and at 68 I'm still struggling.  Thank you for replying.  

[Bawneen]

On 6/15/2024 at 1:05 AM, Catwoman73 said:

This link should take you right to your signature page- you can just add on your recent changes to your previous signature, and click Save.  I know it's super confusing to try to navigate a new website- if you ever have questions, just ask!  We're here to help!

 

Given that you've only been on higher doses for 3 days, I think you should be fine to drop back to 0.5mg right away, and hold for a while- I would say at least a week.  You will continue to have symptom waves- that is a normal part of the process.  If your symptoms haven't improved after a week, you could increase the dose slightly.  Finding the correct reinstatement dose is a bit of an experiment, and the idea is to move slowly, making note of how you are feeling day to day.  Keeping a symptom journal is very helpful- click here for a list of withdrawal symptoms that you could use as a template to track your own symptoms. 

 

I know it's scary.  Truly, I do.  Learning some non-drug methods of coping with symptoms is essential to success in my experience.   Meditation and calming music can be a huge help.  Over time, you will learn what methods help you, but it will take some patience and experimentation.  

 

@Catwoman73 can you help with this question.  I've been advised to take 5 mg (Escitalopram) dissolved in 50 ml of water and draw up 5 ml which I'm doing, headache 24/7, constant anxiety though thankfully, at the moment, it's low-level, I can cope with it.  How many mg am I taking at the moment?  I've no head for numbers at all and I'm reinstating as per instructions here.  I've downloaded spreadsheet but have no idea how to proceed or when it's deemed appropriate. Do I go up by 10% and what are the next numbers? Is it still 50 ml of water?  Do I draw up a little bit more?  I'm totally confused by all this. Sorry to hassle you.  I've searched online and here but don't know quantities of water, pill (mg) or syringe doses.  I feel really stupid but numbers are not my forte.  Thanks in advance. 

[Catwoman73]

1 hour ago, Bawneen said:

@Catwoman73 can you help with this question.  I've been advised to take 5 mg (Escitalopram) dissolved in 50 ml of water and draw up 5 ml which I'm doing, headache 24/7, constant anxiety though thankfully, at the moment, it's low-level, I can cope with it.  How many mg am I taking at the moment?  I've no head for numbers at all and I'm reinstating as per instructions here.  I've downloaded spreadsheet but have no idea how to proceed or when it's deemed appropriate. Do I go up by 10% and what are the next numbers? Is it still 50 ml of water?  Do I draw up a little bit more?  I'm totally confused by all this. Sorry to hassle you.  I've searched online and here but don't know quantities of water, pill (mg) or syringe doses.  I feel really stupid but numbers are not my forte.  Thanks in advance. 

No worries- it's not a hassle at all!  Don't feel stupid- Not everyone is built for numbers... lucky for you, I ADORE numbers! 

 

So you are taking 0.5mg right now.  I don't know if it helps if I explain how I got to that, but I'll try anyway- If you have 5mg/50mL, then by reducing, you get 1mg/10mL.  So if you are taking 5mL (10 divided by 2), that would amount to 0.5mg (1 divided by 2)!  If that's still confusing, just ignore it lol, and ask your math questions here... that's what we're here for.  

 

For now, I would say just stay on the 0.5mg for a while- at LEAST 1-2 weeks.  Take note of how you are feeling as you go- better, worse, or about the same.  If you are a bit better or the same, you can then increase your dose to see if it improves the effect.  In terms of how much to increase- that is more of an art than a science.  I say we cross that bridge when we come to it- for now, just focus on tracking your symptoms, and we'll figure out what's next at the end of that 1-2 week period.  That being said- if you feel worse after reinstating, you can stop anytime.  But again, give it a bit of time.  Slow and steady is always the way to go with these drugs!  

[Bawneen]

10 hours ago, Catwoman73 said:

No worries- it's not a hassle at all!  Don't feel stupid- Not everyone is built for numbers... lucky for you, I ADORE numbers! 

 

So you are taking 0.5mg right now.  I don't know if it helps if I explain how I got to that, but I'll try anyway- If you have 5mg/50mL, then by reducing, you get 1mg/10mL.  So if you are taking 5mL (10 divided by 2), that would amount to 0.5mg (1 divided by 2)!  If that's still confusing, just ignore it lol, and ask your math questions here... that's what we're here for.  

 

For now, I would say just stay on the 0.5mg for a while- at LEAST 1-2 weeks.  Take note of how you are feeling as you go- better, worse, or about the same.  If you are a bit better or the same, you can then increase your dose to see if it improves the effect.  In terms of how much to increase- that is more of an art than a science.  I say we cross that bridge when we come to it- for now, just focus on tracking your symptoms, and we'll figure out what's next at the end of that 1-2 week period.  That being said- if you feel worse after reinstating, you can stop anytime.  But again, give it a bit of time.  Slow and steady is always the way to go with these drugs!  

It's embarrassing to be this stupid with numbers. Thank you for your patience and advice.  I see numbers and my mind goes blank.  I was getting panicky as I'd no one to ask about these numbers, I think so many don't understand that some of us actually are lacking in numerical skills.  Does the amount of water stay the same?  Again thanks so much for your kindness.🥰 You've alleviated some anxieties.  Currently on day 5 and continual low level of anxiety and headaches (they don't bother me).  

[Erimus]

3 hours ago, Bawneen said:

It's embarrassing to be this stupid with numbers. Thank you for your patience and advice.  I see numbers and my mind goes blank.  I was getting panicky as I'd no one to ask about these numbers, I think so many don't understand that some of us actually are lacking in numerical skills.  Does the amount of water stay the same?  Again thanks so much for your kindness.🥰 You've alleviated some anxieties.  Currently on day 5 and continual low level of anxiety and headaches (they don't bother me).  

The water volume stays the same. Every ml of water contains 0.1mg of escitalopram.

 

You are taking 5ml of the suspension. 5 * 0.1 = 0.5mg escitalopram

 

 

Edited June 18 by Erimus

[Catwoman73]

4 hours ago, Bawneen said:

It's embarrassing to be this stupid with numbers. Thank you for your patience and advice.  I see numbers and my mind goes blank.  I was getting panicky as I'd no one to ask about these numbers, I think so many don't understand that some of us actually are lacking in numerical skills.  Does the amount of water stay the same?  Again thanks so much for your kindness.🥰 You've alleviated some anxieties.  Currently on day 5 and continual low level of anxiety and headaches (they don't bother me).  

Erimus made it so much easier than I did lol... our brains all work in different ways!

 

Don't be embarrassed- my husband and daughter are most definitely NOT math people- they just glaze over when I'm talking numbers.  I'll bet you have talents in other areas that I can't even imagine!  That's what makes human beings so interesting- unlike most other species, our behaviours, interests and talents are all so variable.

 

It sounds like you're doing really well with the reinstatement- keep up the good work!  

[Bawneen]

3 hours ago, Erimus said:

The water volume stays the same. Every ml of water contains 0.1mg of escitalopram.

 

You are taking 5ml of the suspension. 5 * 0.1 = 0.5mg escitalopram

 

 

Thanks so much, this is all starting to make sense.  Good to know volume remains the same.  The numbers were confounding me.

[Erimus]

3 hours ago, Bawneen said:

Thanks so much, this is all starting to make sense.  Good to know volume remains the same.  The numbers were confounding me.

It's all overwhelming at first, especially when you are in withdrawal. Thankfully my brain can still crunch numbers like it used to.

Edited June 18 by Erimus

[Bawneen]

2 hours ago, Erimus said:

It's all overwhelming at first, especially when you are in withdrawal. Thankfully my brain can still crunch numbers like it used to.

Unfortunately my brain always struggled with them, art was/is my thing.  How much should the next reinstatement be? I'm clueless in that area too!! lol But thanks for your help.

[Bawneen]

18 hours ago, Catwoman73 said:

Erimus made it so much easier than I did lol... our brains all work in different ways!

 

Don't be embarrassed- my husband and daughter are most definitely NOT math people- they just glaze over when I'm talking numbers.  I'll bet you have talents in other areas that I can't even imagine!  That's what makes human beings so interesting- unlike most other species, our behaviours, interests and talents are all so variable.

 

It sounds like you're doing really well with the reinstatement- keep up the good work!  

Hi @Catwoman73 no your explanation cleared up so much for me and with the added information from @Erimus I can now nearly make sense of it.  Another question if you don't mind?  Do I go up by 0.1 ml of suspension when reinstating next?  I've bigger windows with lulls either mornings or evenings - cortisol spikes (?).  A lot of headaches but I can totally ignore them, I got used to them after serious head trauma as a result of a cycling accident when I was 35 years old. It's the feelings of anxiety/panic (though for a few days now they have been at low levels) that bother me. When I first went on pills in my late teens/20s (it was valium back in those days) it was to alleviate chronic panic attacks, so I hate having those feelings again. Thanks again for your support.

[Erimus]

11 hours ago, Bawneen said:

Unfortunately my brain always struggled with them, art was/is my thing.  How much should the next reinstatement be? I'm clueless in that area too!! lol But thanks for your help.

You need to hold for a few weeks after you recent changes. If things are improving somewhat there is no need to change.

[Bawneen]

On 6/18/2024 at 3:44 PM, Catwoman73 said:

Erimus made it so much easier than I did lol... our brains all work in different ways!

 

Don't be embarrassed- my husband and daughter are most definitely NOT math people- they just glaze over when I'm talking numbers.  I'll bet you have talents in other areas that I can't even imagine!  That's what makes human beings so interesting- unlike most other species, our behaviours, interests and talents are all so variable.

 

It sounds like you're doing really well with the reinstatement- keep up the good work!  

@Catwoman73 Hi can you help me please!  I'm feeling over-whelmed and almost broken. I feel at the end of my tether. I'm on day 13 of 0.05 mg Escitalopram and today has been just depressing.  I'm 68 and rue the day I ever tried to give this horrible drug up! I've had persistent headaches and palpitations but it's the feelings of panic and hopelessness that I cannot cope with.  I'm reinstating back up. Can I take more tomorrow?  I'm hanging on by a thread. Tomorrow morning I'm going to see a doctor to see if he'll take me on in the practice. I'm dreading it as they all seem utterly ignorant and boohoo the notion of hyperbolic tapering.  My current doc is a long journey away. I'd asked her for something to take the edge of the persistent anxiety and she resolutely refused. I took her advice and went back up suddenly and it was disastrous. Please help. Thanks 

[Musiclover]

I’m very sorry to hear you are feeling this bad Bawneen. I can’t offer any advice on the meds I’m afraid but I’m sure Catwoman73 or someone else with more knowledge than me will chime in soon. Meanwhile, hang on in there. I hope your new doctor will be more sympathetic but as you say most of them don’t get what we’re trying to do here. Do you attend a counsellor or therapist at all who could support you through this?

[Bawneen]

Just now, Musiclover said:

I’m very sorry to hear you are feeling this bad Bawneen. I can’t offer any advice on the meds I’m afraid but I’m sure Catwoman73 or someone with more knowledge will chime in soon. Meanwhile, hang on in there. I hope your new doctor will be more sympathetic but as you say most of them don’t get what we’re trying to do here. Do you attend a counsellor or therapist at all who could support you through this?

@Musiclover thanks - this is just pure hell.  I tapered down last January from 15 mg and everything was grand until I hit 5 mg, then 2.50 then 0 mg - the proverbial hit the fan!  I'm dreading meeting this doctor tomorrow - if he behaves like my other doc I'll feel so lost.  Chronic anxiety from childhood, complex trauma (reading a lot about it now - Tim Fletcher online is good on the subject), hiding it all with partying but my issues wouldn't go away. I realised hitting my 40s I had to do something and it was in my 50s that I did therapy - 5 years over a 7 year period - resolved some of my problems as I finally understand that I was constantly running away from myself but couldn't get away from myself!!  Two years ago I decided that it would be good to be off drugs - tried the sleeping tablets first and after two years became even more insomniac and went back to them - I still have to take them as I just won't sleep, my brain will not turn off, hyper-vigilant and hyper-sensitive from childhood - this has never left me.  So feeling like a failure I committed to stopping AD and I rue the day I ever started this.  I popped back to 5 mg for two days in a row, then in a total panic I went to my doc who said to go back up 10 mg and finally arrived here and was directed to reinstating slowly, 0.5 mg.     So 13 days on this extremely low dose and desperately want to increase even by a small amount.  The feeling of intense panic is just over-whelming me - I feel I'm being buried by it!  I'm reinstating back up to where I can stabilize - and stay there.  I cannot cope with this. I seem to have spent my entire life grappling with it instead of enjoying it.  Sorry I'm rambling but it's all so horrible. But thanks for responding.  I live alone with no kids or really close family.

[Musiclover]

Yes it does sound pretty horrible, especially if you are on your own. Sorry you feel the tapering is too difficult, sounds like finding a dose you can stabilise on is the right path for now. Who knows down the line how you’ll feel about trying again but for now you need to get your equilibrium back. Maybe a supportive counsellor might be able to help, even for a short period? If you have a medical card you should be entitled to attend CIPC, part of the National Counselling Service if you don’t know it. Your doc should be able to refer you. Unless you can afford to go private but I strongly suggest you do find someone to talk to. Not to do any deep work necessarily but just for support and understanding. Break the cycle of aloneness with all this. Just a thought. 

[Bawneen]

1 minute ago, Musiclover said:

Yes it does sound pretty horrible, especially if you are on your own. Sorry you feel the tapering is too difficult, sounds like finding a dose you can stabilise on is the right path for now. Who knows down the line how you’ll feel about trying again but for now you need to get your equilibrium back. Maybe a supportive counsellor might be able to help, even for a short period? If you have a medical card you should be entitled to attend CIPC, part of the National Counselling Service if you don’t know it. Your doc should be able to refer you. Unless you can afford to go private but I strongly suggest you do find someone to talk to. Not to do any deep work necessarily but just for support and understanding. Break the cycle of aloneness with all this. Just a thought. 

I actually got my doctor to apply and got a letter from them but was wary; but your are right, it would be a good idea to talk through this at least. I was told there's a waiting list but it's worth a shot. I am on a medical card. Thanks.  When I have good moments, I think about tapering but it was recommended that I begin again, reinstate and like you said, who knows, when this nightmare is over I might re-consider tapering but only after my body/mind/soul has recovered somewhat.  I appreciate you replying, don't feel so alone. So thanks

[Musiclover]

You are welcome, glad I can offer some bit of support at least. Yes, depending on where you are there is usually a waiting list of some kind. It’s worth going on it though as there are some good people who work there. 

[Bawneen]

13 minutes ago, Musiclover said:

You are welcome, glad I can offer some bit of support at least. Yes, depending on where you are there is usually a waiting list of some kind. It’s worth going on it though as there are some good people who work there. 

Thanks, today was truly awful, yesterday not so bad.  I just cannot stand these feelings. 

[Catwoman73]

3 hours ago, Bawneen said:

@Catwoman73 Hi can you help me please!  I'm feeling over-whelmed and almost broken. I feel at the end of my tether. I'm on day 13 of 0.05 mg Escitalopram and today has been just depressing.  I'm 68 and rue the day I ever tried to give this horrible drug up! I've had persistent headaches and palpitations but it's the feelings of panic and hopelessness that I cannot cope with.  I'm reinstating back up. Can I take more tomorrow?  I'm hanging on by a thread. Tomorrow morning I'm going to see a doctor to see if he'll take me on in the practice. I'm dreading it as they all seem utterly ignorant and boohoo the notion of hyperbolic tapering.  My current doc is a long journey away. I'd asked her for something to take the edge of the persistent anxiety and she resolutely refused. I took her advice and went back up suddenly and it was disastrous. Please help. Thanks 

Hi @Bawneen- I'm so sorry you're struggling.  I see above that you said that yesterday was not so bad- this is a window, and is a very good sign of healing.  You are having a nasty wave today, and that's expected.  Recovery is not linear- you will continue to have ups and downs.  Have you tried to start incorporating some of the non-drug methods of coping that I provided links to previously?  Those can help, but they take practice- LOTS of practice.  You are in the most difficult part of your journey right now- your nervous system is very destabilized, and you have not yet established what coping mechanisms help you.  You need to have patience.  Easier said than done, I know, but I have faith in you.  Deep breaths, one minute at a time.  

 

You have been on 0.5mg for 13 days.  Would you say you feel better than when you were on the higher doses (5-10mg), worse, or about the same?  Take some time to really reflect on your windows and waves over the last couple of weeks before answering.  Are you noticing any patterns throughout the day with your symptoms?  For example- do you feel significantly worse in the hours after you take your dose?  Answering these questions will help me provide some assistance here. 

 

Hang in there... my apologies for the slow response.  It's been a very busy day for me!

[Bawneen]

2 minutes ago, Catwoman73 said:

Hi @Bawneen- I'm so sorry you're struggling.  I see above that you said that yesterday was not so bad- this is a window, and is a very good sign of healing.  You are having a nasty wave today, and that's expected.  Recovery is not linear- you will continue to have ups and downs.  Have you tried to start incorporating some of the non-drug methods of coping that I provided links to previously?  Those can help, but they take practice- LOTS of practice.  You are in the most difficult part of your journey right now- your nervous system is very destabilized, and you have not yet established what coping mechanisms help you.  You need to have patience.  Easier said than done, I know, but I have faith in you.  Deep breaths, one minute at a time.  

 

You have been on 0.5mg for 13 days.  Would you say you feel better than when you were on the higher doses (5-10mg), worse, or about the same?  Take some time to really reflect on your windows and waves over the last couple of weeks before answering.  Are you noticing any patterns throughout the day with your symptoms?  For example- do you feel significantly worse in the hours after you take your dose?  Answering these questions will help me provide some assistance here. 

 

Hang in there... my apologies for the slow response.  It's been a very busy day for me!

Hi @Catwoman73 thanks for replying and sorry to burden you. But I'm just barely hanging in. I'm getting windows but waves are like 30 footers - just feeling utterly hopeless.  I can answer your question without hesitation, I've been much better on higher doses, I felt "normal"  . I've been going out for walks every day, joined two knitting groups, house-cleaning every day and even into the studio a few mornings  but I'm literally working through this hour by hour. Generally I feel panicky in the morning, I'm waking at about 6.30 am and feel anxious with waves of absolute panic, palpitations and the ever present headache, it's there all the time.  I take the suspension about 9 am and get window/windows and often flatten towards the evening and don't go to bed until about 1.15 am (after taking sleeping 10 mg Stilnocht). Today, the whole day was just horrible, although nearly all of yesterday was not bad at all.  Can I take 7 ml of suspension instead of the 5 ml suspension tomorrow morning?  I need some relief.  I'm reinstating, thanks for you help. When I know how to reinstate doses I can gauge myself?  I'd read here that people increase by 10% but like I said to you I'm lousy at numbers so don't know how that would transfer to ml?  Thanks again for your patience and help.  

[Catwoman73]

The waking in the morning with feelings of panic is a normal response to the cortisol surge that we all get in the morning.  It is designed to wake us up and get us moving for the day, but when in withdrawal, it can just seem like it was designed to torture us.  Knowing this won't fix the problem, but it can make it easier to cope with, knowing that there is a biological reason why this happens.  Your brain is just interpreting the cortisol incorrectly at the moment.  It will get better. 

 

You've been on 0.5mg for 13 days now, and if you feel you need to updose to get more symptom relief, you could go up to 1mg at this point.  That would be 1mL of the suspension you are currently taking.  I want to remind you though- there is no guarantees with reinstatement.  It doesn't necessarily work quickly, and it  doesn't work at all for some people.  So you will need to be patient, and practice your non-drug coping skills religiously while you wait to see how your body reacts.  Keep your symptom journal, and watch for patterns.  One step at a time, one minute at a time. 

 

Here are the links to the reinstatement threads to back up what I'm telling you.  This is no easy journey, and there are no short cuts.  The only way out is through- and you CAN do this.  We are all stronger than we think!

 

About Reinstating and Stabilizing to Reduce Withdrawal Symptoms

How long does it take to stabilize after reinstating or updosing?