Bawneen

[Bawneen]

5 hours ago, Catwoman73 said:

The waking in the morning with feelings of panic is a normal response to the cortisol surge that we all get in the morning.  It is designed to wake us up and get us moving for the day, but when in withdrawal, it can just seem like it was designed to torture us.  Knowing this won't fix the problem, but it can make it easier to cope with, knowing that there is a biological reason why this happens.  Your brain is just interpreting the cortisol incorrectly at the moment.  It will get better. 

 

You've been on 0.5mg for 13 days now, and if you feel you need to updose to get more symptom relief, you could go up to 1mg at this point.  That would be 1mL of the suspension you are currently taking.  I want to remind you though- there is no guarantees with reinstatement.  It doesn't necessarily work quickly, and it  doesn't work at all for some people.  So you will need to be patient, and practice your non-drug coping skills religiously while you wait to see how your body reacts.  Keep your symptom journal, and watch for patterns.  One step at a time, one minute at a time. 

 

Here are the links to the reinstatement threads to back up what I'm telling you.  This is no easy journey, and there are no short cuts.  The only way out is through- and you CAN do this.  We are all stronger than we think!

 

About Reinstating and Stabilizing to Reduce Withdrawal Symptoms

How long does it take to stabilize after reinstating or updosing?

Thank you so much for your help.  So just to be clear that means 10 ml of the suspension 5 ml = 0.5 mg  so 10 mg = 1 mg?    or 6 ml of the suspension? Thank you @Catwoman73

[Catwoman73]

8 hours ago, Bawneen said:

Thank you so much for your help.  So just to be clear that means 10 ml of the suspension 5 ml = 0.5 mg  so 10 mg = 1 mg?    or 6 ml of the suspension? Thank you @Catwoman73

Oops, yes, 10mL!  So sorry about missing that zero lol.  I think I was typing too fast and not paying enough attention!

[Bawneen]

1 hour ago, Catwoman73 said:

Oops, yes, 10mL!  So sorry about missing that zero lol.  I think I was typing too fast and not paying enough attention!

I ended up taking the 10 ml this morning.  I woke up this morning feeling a bit better and today it has been okay.  Yesterday was truly awful, very dark and gloomy, I was at the end of my tether, seems this will never end. So I'm now on 1 mg daily and will increase dosage after a couple of weeks.  I want to get back to feeling "normal" or stabilized and just rest there for a year anyway.  At 68 this is just too much of a battle and I wonder if my system is just injured after so many years on these cursed things? Is is possible to increase to 2 mg in a fortnight's time? I want to thank you profusely for your help with this? 🥰 The medical establishment certainly don't seem to be aware, although I did change my doctor today (it's nearer me) and he had heard of tapering (not the hyperbolic tapering though). 

[Catwoman73]

1 hour ago, Bawneen said:

I ended up taking the 10 ml this morning.  I woke up this morning feeling a bit better and today it has been okay.  Yesterday was truly awful, very dark and gloomy, I was at the end of my tether, seems this will never end. So I'm now on 1 mg daily and will increase dosage after a couple of weeks.  I want to get back to feeling "normal" or stabilized and just rest there for a year anyway.  At 68 this is just too much of a battle and I wonder if my system is just injured after so many years on these cursed things? Is is possible to increase to 2 mg in a fortnight's time? I want to thank you profusely for your help with this? 🥰 The medical establishment certainly don't seem to be aware, although I did change my doctor today (it's nearer me) and he had heard of tapering (not the hyperbolic tapering though). 

I would just keep your symptom diary up to date, and make a decision in a couple of weeks.  You may find that taking 1mg is enough to keep your symptoms to a manageable level!  More isn't necessarily better when reinstating.  The lowest possible dose should always be used to keep things manageable.  In a couple of weeks, if you still feel the symptoms are unbearable, I would go up to 1.5mg or 15mL.  And then hold there for a while.  Slow and steady is the way.  If you overshoot, and start taking too high a dose, you could be in for a world of pain due to hypersensitivity.  There is no rush. 

 

Yesterday was a wave.  That's all it was... and as you can see, the waves do pass.  The next time you have a terrible day, just keep repeating to yourself 'this is just wave... it will pass' over and over.  Mantras help me tremendously on the rough days.

 

It sounds like you have found yourself a doctor that MIGHT be willing to learn- here is a link to our page with scientific sources that you could print off for him, should you want to help him learn more about the severity of withdrawal and hyperbolic tapering.  Tread lightly though- some doctors do NOT appreciate being educated by their patients.  I feel like mine is one of them...

 

From Journals and Scientific Sources 

[Bawneen]

55 minutes ago, Catwoman73 said:

I would just keep your symptom diary up to date, and make a decision in a couple of weeks.  You may find that taking 1mg is enough to keep your symptoms to a manageable level!  More isn't necessarily better when reinstating.  The lowest possible dose should always be used to keep things manageable.  In a couple of weeks, if you still feel the symptoms are unbearable, I would go up to 1.5mg or 15mL.  And then hold there for a while.  Slow and steady is the way.  If you overshoot, and start taking too high a dose, you could be in for a world of pain due to hypersensitivity.  There is no rush. 

 

Yesterday was a wave.  That's all it was... and as you can see, the waves do pass.  The next time you have a terrible day, just keep repeating to yourself 'this is just wave... it will pass' over and over.  Mantras help me tremendously on the rough days.

 

It sounds like you have found yourself a doctor that MIGHT be willing to learn- here is a link to our page with scientific sources that you could print off for him, should you want to help him learn more about the severity of withdrawal and hyperbolic tapering.  Tread lightly though- some doctors do NOT appreciate being educated by their patients.  I feel like mine is one of them...

 

From Journals and Scientific Sources 

@Catwoman73 thanks very much for putting up with me and endless questions.  This is all new and horrible. My doc was so receptive today, at least he didn't sigh like my old one when I mentioned tapering.  I'm hoping that the little increase of 0.5 ml up to 1 mg might alleviate some of the wave symptoms.  I think it was so distressing yesterday because it lasted from the time I woke until I contacted this forum last night and @Musiclover replied almost immediately. Just to have that contact was a help. Today has been okay but interestingly as soon as I get headaches I now know mood will drop completely or become lower.  The headaches are always at the top of my head not the usual place behind the forehead. There is a definite connection for me and I've been keeping a diary from beginning of year when I went on this journey.   Just a techy question, how do I change my info?  When I go into my page where do I go then as I'd like to update it, thanks in advance. 

[Musiclover]

29 minutes ago, Bawneen said:

Just a techy question, how do I change my info?  When I go into my page where do I go then as I'd like to update it, thanks in advance. 

 

I presume you mean  your signature, i.e. the info underneath all your posts? On the top right of the page click on the down arrow beside your forum name. Choose Account Settings. Then on the left you will see a list with Signature on the bottom. If you click on that you can edit it. Let us know if you meant something else.

[Bawneen]

2 hours ago, Musiclover said:

 

I presume you mean  your signature, i.e. the info underneath all your posts? On the top right of the page click on the down arrow beside your forum name. Choose Account Settings. Then on the left you will see a list with Signature on the bottom. If you click on that you can edit it. Let us know if you meant something else.

Thanks very much, yep my signature. Got it updated thanks. Thanks for your quick response last night, I felt the terrors so much and it was all day, no respite.  Today has been better.

[Catwoman73]

2 hours ago, Bawneen said:

 I think it was so distressing yesterday because it lasted from the time I woke until I contacted this forum last night and @Musiclover replied almost immediately. Just to have that contact was a help. 

That's the beautiful thing about this forum- it's international, and full of people who suffer from insomnia lol, so there is almost always someone around.  It's important to not feel so alone in those bad moments- I'm so glad Musiclover could help!

[Musiclover]

13 minutes ago, Bawneen said:

Thanks very much, yep my signature. Got it updated thanks. Thanks for your quick response last night, I felt the terrors so much and it was all day, no respite.  Today has been better.

You’re most welcome, glad I could be there. 😊

[Bawneen]

On 6/26/2024 at 10:34 PM, Catwoman73 said:

That's the beautiful thing about this forum- it's international, and full of people who suffer from insomnia lol, so there is almost always someone around.  It's important to not feel so alone in those bad moments- I'm so glad Musiclover could help!

Hi.   I've been keeping a diary - times of day I get a wave or window and it's makes for depressing reading - I'm going hour to hour (thankfully I'm retired) and just want each day to be over so there's a next day and a day nearer stabilizing.  Is this normal, is it this hard for others?   5 days on 1 mg of Escitalopram and becoming more anxious of going out (except for walk) or being with other people.  Should I go back to my doctor and get something to take with it to ease the anxiety? I'm  reinstating and have read the forum about the issue but this is just so awful.  Also wondering;  I get a headache and palpitations; it's an indicator of drop (sometimes severe) in mood and anxiety?  Familiar to anyone - is that because the effects of the Escitalopram is wearing off?  

[Bawneen]

13 hours ago, Bawneen said:

Hi @Catwoman73  I've been keeping a diary - times of day I get a wave or window and it's makes for depressing reading - I'm going hour to hour (thankfully I'm retired) and just want each day to be over so there's a next day and a day nearer stabilizing.  Is this normal, is it this hard for others?   5 days on 1 mg of Escitalopram and becoming more anxious of going out (except for walk) or being with other people.  Should I go back to my doctor and get something to take with it to ease the anxiety? I'm  reinstating and have read the forum about the issue but this is just so awful.  Also wondering;  I get a headache and palpitations; it's an indicator of drop (sometimes severe) in mood and anxiety?  Familiar to anyone - is that because the effects of the Escitalopram is wearing off?  

 

[Catwoman73]

14 hours ago, Bawneen said:

Hi.   I've been keeping a diary - times of day I get a wave or window and it's makes for depressing reading - I'm going hour to hour (thankfully I'm retired) and just want each day to be over so there's a next day and a day nearer stabilizing.  Is this normal, is it this hard for others?   5 days on 1 mg of Escitalopram and becoming more anxious of going out (except for walk) or being with other people.  Should I go back to my doctor and get something to take with it to ease the anxiety? I'm  reinstating and have read the forum about the issue but this is just so awful.  Also wondering;  I get a headache and palpitations; it's an indicator of drop (sometimes severe) in mood and anxiety?  Familiar to anyone - is that because the effects of the Escitalopram is wearing off?  

This all sounds very normal to me.  All of it- anxiety, headaches, palpitations... I get all of this.  Many of us  are taking things minute by minute- you are not alone!  You are VERY early in your journey- you reinstated less than a month ago after two decades of antidepressant use, a rapid taper, and some inconsistent dosing after reinstating.  This has you very destabilized, and it's going to take time and patience.  We do not recommend taking other psychiatric drugs to deal with the problems that a psychiatric drug created- by taking something else, you are just creating a situation where you will have to wean off of something else down the road.  Which of course would mean more withdrawal.  

 

The reason for reinstatement of your escitalopram is simply to relieve withdrawal symptoms, and everything you are experiencing IS just withdrawal.  You have likely not found your ideal reinstatement dose yet, and will likely have to continue SLOWLY increasing for a while to find the sweet spot.  Are you practicing any non-drug methods of coping?  They really do work!  Here are some links if you haven't read them already:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/

Easing your way into meditation for a stressed-out nervous system

Music for self-care: calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

Ways to cope with daily anxiety

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/846-change-the-channel-dealing-with-cognitive-symptoms/

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

The unfortunate fact about these drugs is that they do lose efficacy over time- meaning it probably hasn't done much, if anything, for you in terms of relieving depression for a long time- likely years.  Meaning, everything you are currently experiencing is due to nervous system instability due to your rapid taper.  So if your intent is to slowly updose to your regular dose and stay there for life, you may not find the relief you are looking for over the long term.  I would strongly suggest working HARD on some non-drug methods of coping- they take practice and work, but they are helpful.  Your journey to stability may not be a quick one, so you need some of these tools in your toolkit to help you through these difficult days.

 

Hang in there... I know you can do this!!! We are all stronger than we think!

[Bawneen]

56 minutes ago, Catwoman73 said:

This all sounds very normal to me.  All of it- anxiety, headaches, palpitations... I get all of this.  Many of us  are taking things minute by minute- you are not alone!  You are VERY early in your journey- you reinstated less than a month ago after two decades of antidepressant use, a rapid taper, and some inconsistent dosing after reinstating.  This has you very destabilized, and it's going to take time and patience.  We do not recommend taking other psychiatric drugs to deal with the problems that a psychiatric drug created- by taking something else, you are just creating a situation where you will have to wean off of something else down the road.  Which of course would mean more withdrawal.  

 

The reason for reinstatement of your escitalopram is simply to relieve withdrawal symptoms, and everything you are experiencing IS just withdrawal.  You have likely not found your ideal reinstatement dose yet, and will likely have to continue SLOWLY increasing for a while to find the sweet spot.  Are you practicing any non-drug methods of coping?  They really do work!  Here are some links if you haven't read them already:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/

Easing your way into meditation for a stressed-out nervous system

Music for self-care: calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

Ways to cope with daily anxiety

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/846-change-the-channel-dealing-with-cognitive-symptoms/

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

The unfortunate fact about these drugs is that they do lose efficacy over time- meaning it probably hasn't done much, if anything, for you in terms of relieving depression for a long time- likely years.  Meaning, everything you are currently experiencing is due to nervous system instability due to your rapid taper.  So if your intent is to slowly updose to your regular dose and stay there for life, you may not find the relief you are looking for over the long term.  I would strongly suggest working HARD on some non-drug methods of coping- they take practice and work, but they are helpful.  Your journey to stability may not be a quick one, so you need some of these tools in your toolkit to help you through these difficult days.

 

Hang in there... I know you can do this!!! We are all stronger than we think!

Hi @Catwoman73 I'm walking daily, deep breathing, joined knitting group and I will start to talk to someone tomorrow about what I know is at the heart of this.  I'm eating well and watching pure lightweight drivel on YouTube.  It was on day 47 being at 0.00 mg that I rapidly crashed. Wonder how I went for over a month with very little withdrawal except for insomnia.  But now those waves feel like 90 footers!  The hopelessness of it all is what is so depressing.  Yesterday was awful and today has been okay so far. It's now 3.30 pm and I can feel myself starting to drop. God I hate this so much. But thanks for response, it's much appreciated.

[Catwoman73]

52 minutes ago, Bawneen said:

It was on day 47 being at 0.00 mg that I rapidly crashed. Wonder how I went for over a month with very little withdrawal except for insomnia.  

This does definitely happen to some- sometimes it's 3 or more months out from a cold turkey or rapid taper!  Again, you are absolutely NOT alone!

 

Your situation is not at all hopeless.  You need lots of stability with your meds right now to allow things to settle.  I know someone else has said this, but more is not necessarily better when reinstating- give each dose some time- as long as you can tolerate!  Things will eventually settle out with stability.  You will heal- you ARE healing, even when it doesn't feel like it.  The fact that you do seem to be seeing windows and waves is an excellent sign, even if the windows are short right now.  Just keep believing- it will get better.  

 

Have you watched any of Angie Peacock's videos on YouTube?  She interviews psychiatric drug survivors, and is a survivor of some pretty serious poly pharmacy herself.  Each of her interviews have ended with a message of hope, and she has compiled many of those messages into two videos- I'll link them here.  These are people who have truly been through the depths of hell with their withdrawal and recovered.  I watch them regularly to keep my spirits up!  If these people can survive, we can too!

 

 

 

[Bawneen]

@Catwoman73 I have come across her via YouTube and she's on FB.  Since I discovered Mark Horowitz, others pop on side bar - it makes me scared as the shortest time frame I've noticed is about 4 and half years before survivors start to notice a difference, but 10 years seems to be the magic number.  At 68 I've only a shortish time left.   The idea of a mental battleground ahead is so scary. At 78 I might be rid of them!  No matter what way I look at it that's it, to continue to taper or to reinstate when, if ever, I stabilize (and I cannot wait for that). 

I'm keeping a small notebook and note whenever there is a shift.  The headache/palpitations are usually my indicator that the wave is coming.

[Catwoman73]

Just now, Bawneen said:

@Catwoman73 I have come across her via YouTube and she's on FB.  Since I discovered Mark Horowitz, others pop on side bar - it makes me scared as the shortest time frame I've noticed is about 4 and half years before survivors start to notice a difference, but 10 years seems to be the magic number.  At 68 I've only a shortish time left.   The idea of a mental battleground ahead is so scary. At 78 I might be rid of them!  No matter what way I look at it that's it, to continue to taper or to reinstate when, if ever, I stabilize (and I cannot wait for that). 

I'm keeping a small notebook and note whenever there is a shift.  The headache/palpitations are usually my indicator that the wave is coming.

It's good that you have been able to identify that indicator- use that to your advantage.  When you start to feel the headache and palpitations hit, it gives you the opportunity to plan.  Cancel anything that doesn't need to be done, and prepare yourself to engage in lots of rest, mindfulness, deep breathing- whatever you need.  

 

I don't think it's particularly useful to be looking so far down the road.  Lamenting about how you will be struggling for a decade is doing nothing to help with your current situation.  It may even be making things worse.  My last recovery was about 7 years... yes, that's a long time, but it wasn't terrible the whole time.  I had beautiful, long windows as time progressed, and eventually, I only had waves when I was particularly stressed out.  Healing IS always happening- I swear it to you!  Take things day by day.  Even minute by minute if you need to.  Practice staying in the moment.  When you feel yourself start to spiral, take note of things around you- things you can see, hear, smell, touch, taste.  Focus on those things.  Do this over and over and over, rather than thinking about how terrible things are going to be for years.  This will allow your brain to rewire itself to cope with symptoms better.  It takes some effort, but it's worthwhile- I promise! ❤️

[Bawneen]

24 minutes ago, Catwoman73 said:

It's good that you have been able to identify that indicator- use that to your advantage.  When you start to feel the headache and palpitations hit, it gives you the opportunity to plan.  Cancel anything that doesn't need to be done, and prepare yourself to engage in lots of rest, mindfulness, deep breathing- whatever you need.  

 

I don't think it's particularly useful to be looking so far down the road.  Lamenting about how you will be struggling for a decade is doing nothing to help with your current situation.  It may even be making things worse.  My last recovery was about 7 years... yes, that's a long time, but it wasn't terrible the whole time.  I had beautiful, long windows as time progressed, and eventually, I only had waves when I was particularly stressed out.  Healing IS always happening- I swear it to you!  Take things day by day.  Even minute by minute if you need to.  Practice staying in the moment.  When you feel yourself start to spiral, take note of things around you- things you can see, hear, smell, touch, taste.  Focus on those things.  Do this over and over and over, rather than thinking about how terrible things are going to be for years.  This will allow your brain to rewire itself to cope with symptoms better.  It takes some effort, but it's worthwhile- I promise! ❤️

@Catwoman73 thanks for these words of encouragement. Fingers crossed. Tomorrow will be day 8 on 1 mg of Escitalopram. Thanks again.

[Ariel]

Hi @Bawneen

I'm sorry for what you're going through. 

 

You might be interested in this podcast episode. It's an interview with a researcher specialized in the mind-body connection, more specifically the power of our thoughts and the role they play in health and healing. There are some very interesting studies mentioned.

https://freakonomics.com/podcast/pay-attention-your-body-will-thank-you/

 

Our wonderful mentor @Happy2Heal, who I believe is the same age as you, has written many wonderful posts about shifts in mindset and how one's perspective can change and evolve. What we tell ourselves matters -- when we tell ourselves we are healing, and remind ourselves that we will heal, it makes a huge difference in all our bodily systems, actual, measurable physiological improvements!

 

Sending well wishes and healing vibes <3

Ariel

[Bawneen]

8 minutes ago, Ariel said:

Hi @Bawneen

I'm sorry for what you're going through. 

 

You might be interested in this podcast episode. It's an interview with a researcher specialized in the mind-body connection, more specifically the power of our thoughts and the role they play in health and healing. There are some very interesting studies mentioned.

https://freakonomics.com/podcast/pay-attention-your-body-will-thank-you/

 

Our wonderful mentor @Happy2Heal, who I believe is the same age as you, has written many wonderful posts about shifts in mindset and how one's perspective can change and evolve. What we tell ourselves matters -- when we tell ourselves we are healing, and remind ourselves that we will heal, it makes a huge difference in all our bodily systems, actual, measurable physiological improvements!

 

Sending well wishes and healing vibes ❤️

Ariel

Thank you for this message, it means a lot.  I'll check both out now. 

[Happy2Heal]

On 6/12/2024 at 2:59 PM, Bawneen said:

The problem is I'm 68 and the time frames I'm continually reading about are 4/7 years before people feeling something like "normal" again.  So I could be 72/75 before I see a difference.  I'm wondering if I should just go back on them and resign myself to life on anti-depressants?  The idea of feeling this way for the next 7 years terrifies me.

Hi @Bawneen

 

I'm 68 now and had over 4 decades on all types of psych drugs.

 

I don't see being 68 or 82 or 95 as a problem, we are all getting older. This time is going to pass regardless of what you do.

How did you feel on the Escitalopram? (where I live I know it as lexapro)

why did you decide to come off it?

 

Like you, I did a too fast taper, not knowing anything about withdrawal. I did this several times, as you can see in my signature below. This was NOT a good thing to do.  My drug history is much longer and more complicated than yours, so your results may vary (and I would guess could be better) but it is still not a good idea to go up and down.

You really can't predict how that will go.

That said, you need to decide your own reason for wanting to be off this drug and then decide if you feel it's worth it for some discomfort for a period of time or not.

 

It's not a bad thing to settle on a low dose and stay there indefinitely if you do get to a place where you feel comfortable.

 

I am very glad to be on the other side. My life is better than it ever has been, but that's just ME and can have no bearing on your life or how things might go for you

I can tell you, having been on this forum for many years and reading a LOT of the stories, that how you feel right now is almost surely the worst of it, and this roughest part is actually the shortest! it will be over before you know it.

 

watch for daily signs that things are either staying the same or easing up a bit. they will be there, you just need to look for them

 

You most definitely will NOT feel this way for 7 years!! no no no! when you hear time frames of 5 to 7 years, this is for FULL recovery to happen. For the most part, your journey thru withdrawal has plenty of good times with some uncomfortable times sprinkled thru out. It changes all the time, which can be disconcerting for folks our age- We get set in our ways and don't like change, right?

but change is inevitable and can be a good thing.

You may feel awful right now but know that that is NOT going to last- it will change!

and you will feel better.

 

The worst part of my recovery only lasted a year- the rest was mild annoying stuff that really did not affect my life much. I just knew I was totally "there" yet but I got there and I was sure I always would

 

Your body/brain is always working on healing itself and it does it very very well

 

 

Your "worst" part, the early part, has an excellent chance of being much shorter than mine, since you did not go up and down on this drug many times as I did

I would not have had that bad year if I had just done a proper taper and only did it one time.

I was the yo-yo'ing, going up and down and getting off and going back on, and higher doses etc that caused me to suffer needlessly

 

It would help if you didn't think that getting up to a certain dose is going to fix things, your body is already hard at work to fix itself

I say this only because I worry about your ending up in the place I was- I went up and down so many times- there was no dose that would ease my symptoms when I finally did the last taper. 

 

I don't want that to happen to you. It's unlikely because your history is shorter but we like to be on the safe side here, you know? 

an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure (oops sorry US measurements, hahaha there's 16 oz in a pound)

 

so anyway it's nice to "meet" you although it would have been nicer under better circumstances, 

please know that we are here to get you thru this, and you are going to be just fine

 

this is the shortest part of the journey. very intense I know but it's not going to go on and on, trust me

 

hang in there! anyone who has made it to 68 is already a tough ol' bird, you know?

 

 

 

 

[Happy2Heal]

saw this and thought you might enjoy it

 

[Bawneen]

14 hours ago, Happy2Heal said:

Hi @Bawneen

 

I'm 68 now and had over 4 decades on all types of psych drugs.

 

I don't see being 68 or 82 or 95 as a problem, we are all getting older. This time is going to pass regardless of what you do.

How did you feel on the Escitalopram? (where I live I know it as lexapro)

why did you decide to come off it?

 

Like you, I did a too fast taper, not knowing anything about withdrawal. I did this several times, as you can see in my signature below. This was NOT a good thing to do.  My drug history is much longer and more complicated than yours, so your results may vary (and I would guess could be better) but it is still not a good idea to go up and down.

You really can't predict how that will go.

That said, you need to decide your own reason for wanting to be off this drug and then decide if you feel it's worth it for some discomfort for a period of time or not.

 

It's not a bad thing to settle on a low dose and stay there indefinitely if you do get to a place where you feel comfortable.

 

I am very glad to be on the other side. My life is better than it ever has been, but that's just ME and can have no bearing on your life or how things might go for you

I can tell you, having been on this forum for many years and reading a LOT of the stories, that how you feel right now is almost surely the worst of it, and this roughest part is actually the shortest! it will be over before you know it.

 

watch for daily signs that things are either staying the same or easing up a bit. they will be there, you just need to look for them

 

You most definitely will NOT feel this way for 7 years!! no no no! when you hear time frames of 5 to 7 years, this is for FULL recovery to happen. For the most part, your journey thru withdrawal has plenty of good times with some uncomfortable times sprinkled thru out. It changes all the time, which can be disconcerting for folks our age- We get set in our ways and don't like change, right?

but change is inevitable and can be a good thing.

You may feel awful right now but know that that is NOT going to last- it will change!

and you will feel better.

 

The worst part of my recovery only lasted a year- the rest was mild annoying stuff that really did not affect my life much. I just knew I was totally "there" yet but I got there and I was sure I always would

 

Your body/brain is always working on healing itself and it does it very very well

 

 

Your "worst" part, the early part, has an excellent chance of being much shorter than mine, since you did not go up and down on this drug many times as I did

I would not have had that bad year if I had just done a proper taper and only did it one time.

I was the yo-yo'ing, going up and down and getting off and going back on, and higher doses etc that caused me to suffer needlessly

 

It would help if you didn't think that getting up to a certain dose is going to fix things, your body is already hard at work to fix itself

I say this only because I worry about your ending up in the place I was- I went up and down so many times- there was no dose that would ease my symptoms when I finally did the last taper. 

 

I don't want that to happen to you. It's unlikely because your history is shorter but we like to be on the safe side here, you know? 

an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure (oops sorry US measurements, hahaha there's 16 oz in a pound)

 

so anyway it's nice to "meet" you although it would have been nicer under better circumstances, 

please know that we are here to get you thru this, and you are going to be just fine

 

this is the shortest part of the journey. very intense I know but it's not going to go on and on, trust me

 

hang in there! anyone who has made it to 68 is already a tough ol' bird, you know?

 

 

 

 

@Happy2Heal thank you for taking the time to reply as I see you are offline currently as a mentor.  I decided to try to come off these drugs as I wanted to be drug-free. You know when us oldies go into hospital and staff ask for meds list, well I loved the idea of saying "no, no meds, not on anything". So I began with Stilnocht first, two years and got down to 2.5 mg and had two years of insomnia (which I didn't like but didn't get freaked over as I'm retired, so no job timetable) so went back on them. I felt I'd failed, and thought to myself, no worries, I'll give the Escitalopram a go. Fools rush in.........  The rest as they say, is history. You can see my signature. 40 + days with hardly any symptoms and then, wham!, hit a brick wall and thought I was losing my mind. Had never heard of WD and neither had my doc. I found SA and was advised to reinstate at 0.5, again it's there in my signature. Today is day 8 on 1 mg (again advice from here) and yesterday and today have been, dare I say it, okay - not great, but I'm not asking for that, just to feel reasonably "normal" is a godsend. I've a permanent headache (top of head, not the usual ones at temples or forehead) and palpitations all the time but it's that feeling of hopelessness that just floors me.  In my late teens/early 20s I couldn't go outside for 6 months because of panic attacks and anxiety. I know these feelings so well and it overwhelms me utterly. It all comes flooding back and I just buckle under the feelings.  I start thinking of my age and where I'll end up so it's good to get your perspective here, thanks.

Yesterday I experienced a long window and much of today, it's now  Wednesday, 4.30 pm here and beside the headache/palpitations and low level anxiety I've had little else. I'm afraid to type that as I worry I might hex what is happening.  See how I've programmed myself all these years?  Trying to re-programme my brain to see the world differently. I'm going to look into Ellen Langer and keep doing all the other work too. Thanks again for your reply ☘️🥰

[Bawneen]

1 hour ago, Happy2Heal said:

saw this and thought you might enjoy it

 

Ha ha.  thanks, 😂

[sandnit]

@Bawneen, I saw your post on the other thread so I thought I lost here. The tapering strips are available in the Netherlands I'm not sure if they are available elsewhere. I'm holding at 4,5mg right now. The speed of the strips was to fast for me so when I stabilise I'm switching to the liquid. I can do my own schedule. 

 

Good healing to you.

 

[Bawneen]

5 hours ago, sandnit said:

@Bawneen, I saw your post on the other thread so I thought I lost here. The tapering strips are available in the Netherlands I'm not sure if they are available elsewhere. I'm holding at 4,5mg right now. The speed of the strips was to fast for me so when I stabilise I'm switching to the liquid. I can do my own schedule. 

 

Good healing to you.

 

Oh thanks for the reply and good healing to you too.   It is possible to get liquid here in Ireland but costs a fortune and as far as I'm aware we do not have tapering strips. I'm using the pill dissolved in water advice I received on SA. I'm at 1 mg; tomorrow will be two weeks at this level.  All the best.  

[Bawneen]

On 7/2/2024 at 3:39 PM, Bawneen said:

Hi @Catwoman73 I'm walking daily, deep breathing, joined knitting group and I will start to talk to someone tomorrow about what I know is at the heart of this.  I'm eating well and watching pure lightweight drivel on YouTube.  It was on day 47 being at 0.00 mg that I rapidly crashed. Wonder how I went for over a month with very little withdrawal except for insomnia.  But now those waves feel like 90 footers!  The hopelessness of it all is what is so depressing.  Yesterday was awful and today has been okay so far. It's now 3.30 pm and I can feel myself starting to drop. God I hate this so much. But thanks for response, it's much appreciated.

Hi @Catwoman73 I'm not sure how to just post something new but I wonder if you are anyone else can advise me please?   I've been on 1 mg for 17 days from 26th June to 12th July and have tapered down to .9 mg since last Friday 12th.  There's been a big improvement, long windows, nearly all day, but I'm scared that I might have jumped the gun? Does it sound like I moved too fast?  Should I reinstate to 1 mg?  I'm so nervous about all of this. Sorry if I sound neurotic - lol!   I've continual headache and some palpitations and a little bit of low level dips but I can ignore them but nothing like early days (a total nightmare I want to forget!). 

[Catwoman73]

2 hours ago, Bawneen said:

Hi @Catwoman73 I'm not sure how to just post something new but I wonder if you are anyone else can advise me please?   I've been on 1 mg for 17 days from 26th June to 12th July and have tapered down to .9 mg since last Friday 12th.  There's been a big improvement, long windows, nearly all day, but I'm scared that I might have jumped the gun? Does it sound like I moved too fast?  Should I reinstate to 1 mg?  I'm so nervous about all of this. Sorry if I sound neurotic - lol!   I've continual headache and some palpitations and a little bit of low level dips but I can ignore them but nothing like early days (a total nightmare I want to forget!). 

Not neurotic at all!  You're scared about going back to feeling the way you did before, and that's understandable.   I'm so very glad you're feeling better though!!!

 

Personally, I likely would have held for longer before started tapering, but don't panic!  Just hold now.  Give it a month- even two- just to make 100% sure that you are stable on the 0.9mg.  Then proceed cautiously- no more than 10% drop of your current dose (so your next two drops would be to 0.81mg and 0.73mg, if you continue with 10% drops), no more frequently than every four weeks.  Trust me- slow and steady is the way here.  When it comes to tapering, the tortoise always wins!

 

Don't forget- you will still have windows and waves.  So don't panic if you have a few crappy days- that's to be expected. 

 

So happy to hear you're doing better!  

[Tweed9674]

Hi @Bawneen!

I'm with @Catwoman73 and I think that you should hold at 0.9 for a while. It'd give it a month minimum, and even more if possible. There's no hurry

If you start feeling a bit worse, don't updose immediately. Asking here before making that kind of move would be good!

 

It's fantastic to hear that you are having windows, lets keep it that way!

[Bawneen]

7 hours ago, Catwoman73 said:

Not neurotic at all!  You're scared about going back to feeling the way you did before, and that's understandable.   I'm so very glad you're feeling better though!!!

 

Personally, I likely would have held for longer before started tapering, but don't panic!  Just hold now.  Give it a month- even two- just to make 100% sure that you are stable on the 0.9mg.  Then proceed cautiously- no more than 10% drop of your current dose (so your next two drops would be to 0.81mg and 0.73mg, if you continue with 10% drops), no more frequently than every four weeks.  Trust me- slow and steady is the way here.  When it comes to tapering, the tortoise always wins!

 

Don't forget- you will still have windows and waves.  So don't panic if you have a few crappy days- that's to be expected. 

 

So happy to hear you're doing better!  

Hi @Catwoman73 thank you so much for your prompt reply. This means so much for me, You and @Erimus have been great in explaining doses and how to make solutions (I'm not a numbers person at all!). We don't have taper strips or liquid in Ireland. I'm attaching photo of syringe I bought from Amazon, I got a small version too with same markings. It explains why I was dropping from 1 mg to 0.9 mg. How do I measure the next drop of 0.81 or in a few months time 0.73 mg,?  Is there a particular type of syringe available on Amazon? Post from the US can take a couple of months.  Thanks in advance.  I cannot tell you the joy of waking up without being anxious or feeling hopeless. The constant headaches or palpitations (which are not as prevalent) I can live with, I tend to just ignore them.  It was the sheer panic and dread of the next wave that nearly had me broken. Many thanks.

[Bawneen]

25 minutes ago, Bawneen said:

Hi @Catwoman73 thank you so much for your prompt reply. This means so much for me, You and @Erimus have been great in explaining doses and how to make solutions (I'm not a numbers person at all!). We don't have taper strips or liquid in Ireland. I'm attaching photo of syringe I bought from Amazon, I got a small version too with same markings. It explains why I was dropping from 1 mg to 0.9 mg. How do I measure the next drop of 0.81 or in a few months time 0.73 mg,?  Is there a particular type of syringe available on Amazon? Post from the US can take a couple of months.  Thanks in advance.  I cannot tell you the joy of waking up without being anxious or feeling hopeless. The constant headaches or palpitations (which are not as prevalent) I can live with, I tend to just ignore them.  It was the sheer panic and dread of the next wave that nearly had me broken. Many thanks.

Hi @Catwoman73, this is embarrassing!  I just googled in "what is 10% of 0.73 and had an entire page on how to do the sum. For those of us without any numerical skills, can you let me know the measurements the entire way down to 0.00 mg?  So my next step down the road is 0.81, 0.73, then ? Or maybe direct me to a page here where there is a list of these 10% drops all the way down to 0.00 mg?  You had said you love numbers?  🥰hugs in advance.

[Bawneen]

8 hours ago, Tweed9674 said:

Hi @Bawneen!

I'm with @Catwoman73 and I think that you should hold at 0.9 for a while. It'd give it a month minimum, and even more if possible. There's no hurry

If you start feeling a bit worse, don't updose immediately. Asking here before making that kind of move would be good!

 

It's fantastic to hear that you are having windows, lets keep it that way!

Hi @Tweed9674 absolutely agree.  I will hold at this point for at least a month or so. I don't ever want to go back to those frightening feelings/thoughts that withdrawal brings about.  Having whole days of windows (albeit with headaches/palpitations) is pure joy. Even when there are short moments of dips/waves they do not last long and I can now see them coming and deal with them. A far cry from where I was 6 weeks ago. I will ask here for sure because this is where the expertise is.  Curious to know about not up-dosing, is it because it's "normal" to dip when a tiny readjustment is made?  Part of the tapering process? The more information I acquire about this the better it is for me.  Thanks for your support🥰

[Bawneen]

3 hours ago, Bawneen said:

Hi @Catwoman73 thank you so much for your prompt reply. This means so much for me, You and @Erimus have been great in explaining doses and how to make solutions (I'm not a numbers person at all!). We don't have taper strips or liquid in Ireland. I'm attaching photo of syringe I bought from Amazon, I got a small version too with same markings. It explains why I was dropping from 1 mg to 0.9 mg. How do I measure the next drop of 0.81 or in a few months time 0.73 mg,?  Is there a particular type of syringe available on Amazon? Post from the US can take a couple of months.  Thanks in advance.  I cannot tell you the joy of waking up without being anxious or feeling hopeless. The constant headaches or palpitations (which are not as prevalent) I can live with, I tend to just ignore them.  It was the sheer panic and dread of the next wave that nearly had me broken. Many thanks.

@Catwoman73 I've been looking on Amazon, there are insulin syringes or better still, jewellers' scales. If I ordered one of them would I just crush the pill and manage that way? Just want to organise myself. Thanks in advance. 👍

[Catwoman73]

In order to keep your measurements precise, you will certainly need some smaller syringes as you proceed.  I have a bunch of sizes to allow me to make precise measurements- I have 10mL, 5mL, 3mL and 1mL ones.   They can all be ordered from amazon.

 

Your concentration is 1mg/10mL the way you are mixing up your solution.  You are currently taking 0.9mg, which would be 9mL, correct?  When you go to 8.1mg, you will need to take 8.1mL.  This is best achieved by taking a full 5mL syringe, a full 3mL syringe, and 0.1mL on a 1mL syringe.  

 

To continue to find your next dosage, just multiply your current dosage by 0.9.

So...

9mL X0.9 = 8.1mL

8.1mL X0.9 = 7.3mL

7.3mL X0.9 = 6.6mL

And so on.

 

I would recommend sticking with the liquid rather than switching back to the pills and using a jewellers scale.  The only reason for that is that I think the liquid is a little bit less fussy, and some people don't react very well to switching back and forth.  I would want to ruin all the progress you've made by changing back to the pill form!

[Bawneen]

58 minutes ago, Catwoman73 said:

In order to keep your measurements precise, you will certainly need some smaller syringes as you proceed.  I have a bunch of sizes to allow me to make precise measurements- I have 10mL, 5mL, 3mL and 1mL ones.   They can all be ordered from amazon.

 

Your concentration is 1mg/10mL the way you are mixing up your solution.  You are currently taking 0.9mg, which would be 9mL, correct?  When you go to 8.1mg, you will need to take 8.1mL.  This is best achieved by taking a full 5mL syringe, a full 3mL syringe, and 0.1mL on a 1mL syringe.  

 

To continue to find your next dosage, just multiply your current dosage by 0.9.

So...

9mL X0.9 = 8.1mL

8.1mL X0.9 = 7.3mL

7.3mL X0.9 = 6.6mL

And so on.

 

I would recommend sticking with the liquid rather than switching back to the pills and using a jewellers scale.  The only reason for that is that I think the liquid is a little bit less fussy, and some people don't react very well to switching back and forth.  I would want to ruin all the progress you've made by changing back to the pill form!

Thanks for all your help, I'm absolutely awful with numbers.  I have 20 ml and 5 ml syringes and will order more from Amazon. I'm using the 20 ml syringe drawing up 0.9    I'm still dissolving the 5 mg Escitalopram in 50 ml of water.  Erimus was saying that stays the same throughout?   Just did a calculation and this will take me over 3 years to get from 0.9 to 0.00.  Have I got my calculations all wrong - I wouldn't be surprised and that's using a calculator!    I suddenly feel deflated.  My days/weeks seem to revolve around this, life is just something that happens in between.  I'm getting long windows though and for that I'm grateful.  But thanks again for your help, it is much appreciated.  🥰

[Catwoman73]

2 minutes ago, Bawneen said:

Thanks for all your help, I'm absolutely awful with numbers.  I have 20 ml and 5 ml syringes and will order more from Amazon. I'm using the 20 ml syringe drawing up 0.9    I'm still dissolving the 5 mg Escitalopram in 50 ml of water.  Erimus was saying that stays the same throughout?   Just did a calculation and this will take me over 3 years to get from 0.9 to 0.00.  Have I got my calculations all wrong - I wouldn't be surprised and that's using a calculator!    I suddenly feel deflated.  My days/weeks seem to revolve around this, life is just something that happens in between.  I'm getting long windows though and for that I'm grateful.  But thanks again for your help, it is much appreciated.  🥰

You're welcome!

 

It does take a long time.  What dose did you plan to try jumping off from when you did your calculations?  It's definitely better to move that slowly than to feel like you did a while back!!!  I'm tapering at approximately 5% per month, so my timeline is a long one, too.  This journey definitely teaches us patience!!!  Don't let it get to you- you are in very good company here.  I think with time, your life will revolve less and less around this- taking your meds will just be something you do each day. And you will settle into a 'withdrawal normal' pattern, and it won't all feel so daunting and scary anymore. 

 

Yes, the procedure you use to make your liquid will stay the same throughout. 

[Bawneen]

42 minutes ago, Catwoman73 said:

You're welcome!

 

It does take a long time.  What dose did you plan to try jumping off from when you did your calculations?  It's definitely better to move that slowly than to feel like you did a while back!!!  I'm tapering at approximately 5% per month, so my timeline is a long one, too.  This journey definitely teaches us patience!!!  Don't let it get to you- you are in very good company here.  I think with time, your life will revolve less and less around this- taking your meds will just be something you do each day. And you will settle into a 'withdrawal normal' pattern, and it won't all feel so daunting and scary anymore. 

 

Yes, the procedure you use to make your liquid will stay the same throughout. 

@Catwoman73 I'm currently on 0.9 mg (just started a few days ago, this is day 4). Is that what you mean by the "jumping  off" dose.  So if I'm doing the sum (🤣 feel like a kid using that word) you gave - multiplying each dose by 0.9 -  in 6 weeks time I will begin at 0.81 ml.  I'm going to stay at 0.90 ml for 6-8 weeks to settle.  End of August will be time to think about next taper.   

A fear I have currently (I need to stop projecting but cannot help myself) is being hospitalised and having to have the conversation about tapering.  I cannot imagine medical staff being sympathetic.  I'm currently on a waiting list to see a surgeon about a bone spur in my foot which is also arthritic (which is currently giving me hell. I'm walking a lot to alleviate "head" symptoms) and eventually getting a time for surgery while I'm on this journey of tapering.  Scares me and as I've said before my age, 68, is a factor in wanting a speeded up journey, which is crazy I know.  Thanks again for putting up with endless questions. 🥰👍☘️