Hello20 Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Has anyone that has come off ADs and been off for long enough to start feeling mostly normal again noticed they cant relax like they used to when on ADs? Escitalopram approximately 2012 to March 31st 2023 20mg cold turkey. Back on to escitalopram 10 mg approximately 3weeks later. Switch to Fluoxetine approximately 3 weeks after that. Come off Fluoxetine 20 mg 22nd of June cold turkey. 2018 Saphris 5mg, 2022 Nov upped to 15mg, March 2024 decreased to 10mg, in April started to drop by 2.5mg a month. Got to 2.5mg and went back up to 7.5mg due to possibly dopamine sensitivety or withdrawal but can be sure. Not sure if kindled or withdrawal of symptoms I'm getting. Been on antipsychotics such as Serrequal, Abilify, Zyprexa, but can't remember dates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agtaylor Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 5 hours ago, Hello20 said: Has anyone that has come off ADs and been off for long enough to start feeling mostly normal again noticed they cant relax like they used to when on ADs? I’m curious about this too. I’ve only been off about 6 months this time, but I feel like I can’t really even enjoy just sitting and watching TV like I used to. It’s definitely gotten better than when I first CTd, but I’m hoping it will continue to improve. 1 09/13 - 01/23 - Lexapro 10mg 01/23 - 04/23 - self tapered off Lexapro (I now know that was too fast) 11/08/23 - reinstated Lexapro 10mg (prior to knowing about protracted withdrawals, hypersensitivity & kindling) 11/09 - 11/11/23 - decreased to Lexapro 5mg due to kindling/adverse reaction 11/12/23 - stopped Lexapro due to kindling/adverse reaction 12/05 - 12/10/23 - reinstated Lexapro 2.5mg (prior to knowing about protracted withdrawals, hypersensitivity & kindling) 12/11/23 - stopped Lexapro due to kindling/adverse reaction 12/13/23 - propranolol 10mg (due to high HR in withdrawal/history of POTS) 5/4/24 - birth control pills (to stabilize hormones) 5/21/24 - doxycycline 100mg (10 day course for acne) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello20 Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 @agtaylor Relaxing and watching TV is exactly what I'm talking about with unable to relax. I'm about 14 months off. Escitalopram approximately 2012 to March 31st 2023 20mg cold turkey. Back on to escitalopram 10 mg approximately 3weeks later. Switch to Fluoxetine approximately 3 weeks after that. Come off Fluoxetine 20 mg 22nd of June cold turkey. 2018 Saphris 5mg, 2022 Nov upped to 15mg, March 2024 decreased to 10mg, in April started to drop by 2.5mg a month. Got to 2.5mg and went back up to 7.5mg due to possibly dopamine sensitivety or withdrawal but can be sure. Not sure if kindled or withdrawal of symptoms I'm getting. Been on antipsychotics such as Serrequal, Abilify, Zyprexa, but can't remember dates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon1 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 I still can't relax when watching TV, off for 2/12 years. It has improved in some respects, though. More recently, over the last six months or so, I've found it more difficult to concentrate and follow TV shows than I used to. It's the same with reading books. A year ago I had no problem, but now I'm finding my mind is wandering after a couple of pages. 1 Oct 2018 - Jun 2020: 10 mg per day generic Escitalopram in pill form. Jul 2020 - Aug 2020: Switched to 9 mg per day of Cipralex drops to aid tapering. Sep 2020 - Oct 2020: Taper to 8 mg. Nov 2020 - Dec 2020: Taper to 7 mg. Jan 2021 - Feb 2021: Taper to 6 mg. Mar 2021 - Apr 2021: Taper to 5 mg. May 2021 - Jun 2021: Taper to 4 mg. Jul 2021 - Sep 2021: Taper to 3 mg. Sep 2021 - Jan 2022: Taper to 2 mg. Jan 2022: Stopped taking altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello20 Posted June 8 Author Share Posted June 8 @jon1 @agtaylor I've noticed that all of us noting we can't relax while watching TV since being off have all come off Lex@pr0. Escitalopram approximately 2012 to March 31st 2023 20mg cold turkey. Back on to escitalopram 10 mg approximately 3weeks later. Switch to Fluoxetine approximately 3 weeks after that. Come off Fluoxetine 20 mg 22nd of June cold turkey. 2018 Saphris 5mg, 2022 Nov upped to 15mg, March 2024 decreased to 10mg, in April started to drop by 2.5mg a month. Got to 2.5mg and went back up to 7.5mg due to possibly dopamine sensitivety or withdrawal but can be sure. Not sure if kindled or withdrawal of symptoms I'm getting. Been on antipsychotics such as Serrequal, Abilify, Zyprexa, but can't remember dates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello20 Posted June 8 Author Share Posted June 8 @jon1 How is your sleep? Do you have early morning waking still? Escitalopram approximately 2012 to March 31st 2023 20mg cold turkey. Back on to escitalopram 10 mg approximately 3weeks later. Switch to Fluoxetine approximately 3 weeks after that. Come off Fluoxetine 20 mg 22nd of June cold turkey. 2018 Saphris 5mg, 2022 Nov upped to 15mg, March 2024 decreased to 10mg, in April started to drop by 2.5mg a month. Got to 2.5mg and went back up to 7.5mg due to possibly dopamine sensitivety or withdrawal but can be sure. Not sure if kindled or withdrawal of symptoms I'm getting. Been on antipsychotics such as Serrequal, Abilify, Zyprexa, but can't remember dates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon1 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 51 minutes ago, Hello20 said: @jon1 How is your sleep? Do you have early morning waking still? It varies. I go through short periods where I wake earlier (although I'm nowhere near as 'wired' as I felt at the beginning of withdrawal), but I also have periods where I sleep like a baby and can barely wake up in the morning! I quit caffeine about a year ago, and that made quite a big difference to my sleep. 1 Oct 2018 - Jun 2020: 10 mg per day generic Escitalopram in pill form. Jul 2020 - Aug 2020: Switched to 9 mg per day of Cipralex drops to aid tapering. Sep 2020 - Oct 2020: Taper to 8 mg. Nov 2020 - Dec 2020: Taper to 7 mg. Jan 2021 - Feb 2021: Taper to 6 mg. Mar 2021 - Apr 2021: Taper to 5 mg. May 2021 - Jun 2021: Taper to 4 mg. Jul 2021 - Sep 2021: Taper to 3 mg. Sep 2021 - Jan 2022: Taper to 2 mg. Jan 2022: Stopped taking altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariel Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 1 hour ago, jon1 said: More recently, over the last six months or so, I've found it more difficult to concentrate and follow TV shows than I used to. It's the same with reading books. A year ago I had no problem, but now I'm finding my mind is wandering after a couple of pages. @jon1 Same. Sometimes I wonder whether it's at least partially a matter of habit. Like maybe my brain/mind is deconditioned and I could just retrain it to read? I don't know. A few months back I made an effort to read fiction and successfully read a number of novels in a short period of time. I was amazed that it was possible. And then I sort of lost interest again and haven't been able to get back into it since. I experience similar waxing and waning with being able to follow television programming and movies, both in terms of concentration and interest. It's hard to tell whether these could be oscillations of anhedonia and other WD-related cognitive-emotional issues, or whether it's something else. When in doubt i usually err on the side of anything being WD, and try to accept and be patient, trusting that it will all sort itself out eventually. 2 1996-2018 - misc. polypharmacy, incl. SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics, lithium, benzos, stimulants, antihistamines, etc. (approx. 30+ drugs) 2012-2018 - 10mg lexapro/escitalopram (20mg?) Jan. 2018 - 10mg -> 5mg, then from 5mg -> 2.5mg, then 0mg --> July 2018 - 0mg 2017(?)-2020 - vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine 60-70mg 2020-2021 - 70mg down to 0mg --> July 2021 - 0mg March-April 2021 - vortioxetine 5-10mg (approx. 7 weeks total; CT) --> April 28th, 2021 - 0mg August 2021 - 2mg melatonin August 1, 2022 - 1mg melatonin March 31, 2023 - 0mg melatonin 2024 supplements update: electrolyte blend in water sipped throughout the day; 1 tsp cod liver oil blend (incl. vit. A+D+E) w/ breakfast; calcium; vitamin C+zinc Courage is fear that has said its prayers. - Karle Wilson Baker love and justice are not two. without inner change, there can be no outer change; without collective change, no change matters. - Rev. angel Kyodo williams Holding multiple truths. Knowing that everyone has their own accurate view of the way things are. - text on homemade banner at Afiya house I am not a medical professional; this is not medical advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon1 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 1 minute ago, Ariel said: @jon1 Same. Sometimes I wonder whether it's at least partially a matter of habit. Like maybe my brain/mind is deconditioned and I could just retrain it to read? I don't know. A few months back I made an effort to read fiction and successfully read a number of novels in a short period of time. I was amazed that it was possible. And then I sort of lost interest again and haven't been able to get back into it since. I experience similar waxing and waning with being able to follow television programming and movies, both in terms of concentration and interest. It's hard to tell whether these could be oscillations of anhedonia and other WD-related cognitive-emotional issues, or whether it's something else. When in doubt i usually err on the side of anything being WD, and try to accept and be patient, trusting that it will all sort itself out eventually. Personally, I feel like a lot of it is down to low/fluctuating levels of dopamine. Dopamine is responsible for alertness, concentration, and all sorts of neurological processes. Low levels are also the primary cause of anhedonia. Dopamine doesn't seem to be talked about that much here, but some SSRIs do appear to have a significant downstream effect on it. It also explains why there's so much crossover in symptoms between SSRI withdrawal and benzodiazepine and alcohol withdrawal. Here's a summary of dopamine, which I think sums it up perfectly. “Dopamine acts on areas of the brain to give you feelings of pleasure, satisfaction and motivation. Dopamine also has a role to play in controlling memory, mood, sleep, learning, concentration, movement and other body functions.” https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/dopamine#:~:text=of the brain.-,What is the role of dopamine%3F,movement and other body functions. 1 Oct 2018 - Jun 2020: 10 mg per day generic Escitalopram in pill form. Jul 2020 - Aug 2020: Switched to 9 mg per day of Cipralex drops to aid tapering. Sep 2020 - Oct 2020: Taper to 8 mg. Nov 2020 - Dec 2020: Taper to 7 mg. Jan 2021 - Feb 2021: Taper to 6 mg. Mar 2021 - Apr 2021: Taper to 5 mg. May 2021 - Jun 2021: Taper to 4 mg. Jul 2021 - Sep 2021: Taper to 3 mg. Sep 2021 - Jan 2022: Taper to 2 mg. Jan 2022: Stopped taking altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariel Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 47 minutes ago, jon1 said: Personally, I feel like a lot of it is down to low/fluctuating levels of dopamine. Dopamine is responsible for alertness, concentration, and all sorts of neurological processes. Low levels are also the primary cause of anhedonia. Dopamine doesn't seem to be talked about that much here, but some SSRIs do appear to have a significant downstream effect on it. It also explains why there's so much crossover in symptoms between SSRI withdrawal and benzodiazepine and alcohol withdrawal. Here's a summary of dopamine, which I think sums it up perfectly. “Dopamine acts on areas of the brain to give you feelings of pleasure, satisfaction and motivation. Dopamine also has a role to play in controlling memory, mood, sleep, learning, concentration, movement and other body functions.” Thanks for this @jon1 I hear you, and I tend to agree. On principle I try not to speculate about mechanisms/levels of individual neurotransmitter action as it pertains to me and my state at any given time, esp. in WD. The whole-system dynamics are so complex and interrelated, whatever is actually going on is far beyond what I am capable of knowing and understanding. I am wary of falling into traps of simplified thinking about this or that neurotransmitter, as I associate such reductions with insidious precedent such as the chemical imbalance myth and serotonin theory of depression, etc. The history of psychiatry and so-called medical science abounds with that sort of poor reasoning and I am trying to free myself of such tendencies! That being said, it's not uninteresting to think about, and like I said, I get where you're coming from. I'm not sure there's much we can do about it though, other than accept that this is part of a larger healing process and surrender to the awesome mystery and power of nature, and be patient. I do try to implement some pop-neuro-sci brain hacks (!) around not abusing one's dopamine pathways (whatever that actually means!) and going gently on the most notorious dopamine stimuli (you know, the big baddies mentioned as being addictive) to not aggravate anything, quasi-dopamine-detox-adjacent-ish haha But ultimately, it seems to me, that the incredible neuroplasticity of our brains affords us the opportunity to consciously teach/retrain ourselves to learn new/better/desirable habits, which is made possible by, among other neurotransmitters, dopamine signaling. By which I mean, it's my understanding that our deliberate behavior can exert positive influence on learning, habit formation, and facilitating healing/neurogenesis, as well as stimulating healthy brain activity. I find it important to insist to myself that we do have some agency (I don't always believe this, but I insist anyway, and it's one of those fake it till you make it things), so as not to give in to the temptation of throwing up my hands and lapsing into WD-induced learned helplessness. Know what I mean? How do you (addressing anyone reading this, I welcome your input and responses) navigate the tension between WD circumstances beyond our control and inquiring into the possibilities of our own agency? 1 1996-2018 - misc. polypharmacy, incl. SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics, lithium, benzos, stimulants, antihistamines, etc. (approx. 30+ drugs) 2012-2018 - 10mg lexapro/escitalopram (20mg?) Jan. 2018 - 10mg -> 5mg, then from 5mg -> 2.5mg, then 0mg --> July 2018 - 0mg 2017(?)-2020 - vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine 60-70mg 2020-2021 - 70mg down to 0mg --> July 2021 - 0mg March-April 2021 - vortioxetine 5-10mg (approx. 7 weeks total; CT) --> April 28th, 2021 - 0mg August 2021 - 2mg melatonin August 1, 2022 - 1mg melatonin March 31, 2023 - 0mg melatonin 2024 supplements update: electrolyte blend in water sipped throughout the day; 1 tsp cod liver oil blend (incl. vit. A+D+E) w/ breakfast; calcium; vitamin C+zinc Courage is fear that has said its prayers. - Karle Wilson Baker love and justice are not two. without inner change, there can be no outer change; without collective change, no change matters. - Rev. angel Kyodo williams Holding multiple truths. Knowing that everyone has their own accurate view of the way things are. - text on homemade banner at Afiya house I am not a medical professional; this is not medical advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon1 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 I've reached the stage where I don't attempt to do anything anymore. I'm just letting my brain and body heal at its own pace. I don't take any supplements (invariably, they make me worse) or any of the normal techniques like meditation, etc. I did for the first couple of years, but it made no difference. My only rule is I only eat natural whole foods—nothing chemical or man-made, like additives, sweeteners, vitamins, etc. Not actively trying to do anything has helped. Although sometimes I do wonder if it's a chicken and egg thing. It's hard to judge if I occasionally feel a bit better because I've stopped trying to fix myself, or if I've stopped trying to fix myself because my brain has healed a bit, and is making me feel a bit better. My head hurts! 😁 It was actually my therapist who put the dopamine idea in my head. She deals with a lot of alcoholics and told me it was striking how my symptoms were almost identical to many of those she's seen who've been through PAWS from alcohol. She said that even for people who don't drink much (2-3 drinks a week), it takes the brain at least 6-9 months to restore dopamine to normal levels after stopping alcohol. For heavy drinkers (1 1/2 bottles of wine a week or more), it's around two years. So, considering how powerful SSRIs are, it's no wonder the effects linger for such a long time. Oct 2018 - Jun 2020: 10 mg per day generic Escitalopram in pill form. Jul 2020 - Aug 2020: Switched to 9 mg per day of Cipralex drops to aid tapering. Sep 2020 - Oct 2020: Taper to 8 mg. Nov 2020 - Dec 2020: Taper to 7 mg. Jan 2021 - Feb 2021: Taper to 6 mg. Mar 2021 - Apr 2021: Taper to 5 mg. May 2021 - Jun 2021: Taper to 4 mg. Jul 2021 - Sep 2021: Taper to 3 mg. Sep 2021 - Jan 2022: Taper to 2 mg. Jan 2022: Stopped taking altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariel Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 32 minutes ago, jon1 said: It was actually my therapist who put the dopamine idea in my head. She deals with a lot of alcoholics and told me it was striking how my symptoms were almost identical to many of those she's seen who've been through PAWS from alcohol. She said that even for people who don't drink much (2-3 drinks a week), it takes the brain at least 6-9 months to restore dopamine to normal levels after stopping alcohol. For heavy drinkers (1 1/2 bottles of wine a week or more), it's around two years. Wow, that blows my mind! 2-3 drinks a week -> 6-9 months to restore dopamine to normal levels?!! I've never been much of a drinker but most people I know drink way more than that (and wouldn't consider 1.5 bottles of wine a week to be heavy drinking!). I didn't know PAWS from alcohol is a thing. I thought it was about getting sober and maintaining abstinence forever after. Although I did recently listen to an interesting podcast episode about naltrexone and The Sinclair Method of alcohol use disorder recovery, which sounds a bit different. 32 minutes ago, jon1 said: I've reached the stage where I don't attempt to do anything anymore. I'm just letting my brain and body heal at its own pace. I don't take any supplements (invariably, they make me worse) or any of the normal techniques like meditation, etc. I did for the first couple of years, but it made no difference. My only rule is I only eat natural whole foods—nothing chemical or man-made, like additives, sweeteners, vitamins, etc. Not actively trying to do anything has helped. Although sometimes I do wonder if it's a chicken and egg thing. It's hard to judge if I occasionally feel a bit better because I've stopped trying to fix myself, or if I've stopped trying to fix myself because my brain has healed a bit, and is making me feel a bit better. My head hurts! 😁 @jon1 So you don't try to read or play music (unless you feel like it) or force yourself to do things to practice concentration/focus? If you don't feel motivated around a specific behavior, do you just refrain? 1996-2018 - misc. polypharmacy, incl. SSRIs, SNRIs, neuroleptics, lithium, benzos, stimulants, antihistamines, etc. (approx. 30+ drugs) 2012-2018 - 10mg lexapro/escitalopram (20mg?) Jan. 2018 - 10mg -> 5mg, then from 5mg -> 2.5mg, then 0mg --> July 2018 - 0mg 2017(?)-2020 - vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine 60-70mg 2020-2021 - 70mg down to 0mg --> July 2021 - 0mg March-April 2021 - vortioxetine 5-10mg (approx. 7 weeks total; CT) --> April 28th, 2021 - 0mg August 2021 - 2mg melatonin August 1, 2022 - 1mg melatonin March 31, 2023 - 0mg melatonin 2024 supplements update: electrolyte blend in water sipped throughout the day; 1 tsp cod liver oil blend (incl. vit. A+D+E) w/ breakfast; calcium; vitamin C+zinc Courage is fear that has said its prayers. - Karle Wilson Baker love and justice are not two. without inner change, there can be no outer change; without collective change, no change matters. - Rev. angel Kyodo williams Holding multiple truths. Knowing that everyone has their own accurate view of the way things are. - text on homemade banner at Afiya house I am not a medical professional; this is not medical advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon1 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 10 minutes ago, Ariel said: Wow, that blows my mind! 2-3 drinks a week -> 6-9 months to restore dopamine to normal levels?!! I've never been much of a drinker but most people I know drink way more than that (and wouldn't consider 1.5 bottles of wine a week to be heavy drinking!). I didn't know PAWS from alcohol is a thing. I thought it was about getting sober and maintaining abstinence forever after. Although I did recently listen to an interesting podcast episode about naltrexone and The Sinclair Method of alcohol use disorder recovery, which sounds a bit different. It was an eye-opener for me too! Apparently PAWS is the leading cause of relapse. The lack of dopamine means people feel miserable, fatigued, sick and lack any enjoyment in life. They assume it’s because life is dull without alcohol - rather than a withdrawal symptom - and so start drinking again. It’s almost a mirror image of people who start taking antidepressants again, because they mistakenly think their withdrawal symptoms are what life is like off the drugs. Alcohol is very bad. The media tends to focus on it’s effects on the liver and other organs, but it really does a number on the brain too, even at low levels. And yes, 1 1/2 bottles of wine a week is heavy drinking. When she told me I had to look it up to double check! Way too many people drink way too much, and are probably unaware of it. Frustratingly, a lot of people going through alcohol PAWS are put on antidepressants. Which means they then have to go through another set of withdrawals at a later date. Out of the frying pan into the fire. 10 minutes ago, Ariel said: So you don't try to read or play music or force yourself to do things like that to practice concentration/focus? If you don't feel motivated around a specific behavior, do you just refrain? I do still read and listen to music, etc. But only when I feel like it, and as soon as I lose focus, I stop. Some days I’ll do more than others. If don’t feel like doing something, I won’t. If I try and force myself, it rarely works, and only ends up in making me frustrated and reinforcing negative memories. That said, I still keep up certain routines, even if I don’t feel like it. Stuff like talking to my parents via video every week, and walking to the shops. Sometimes it’s very difficult, but they’re the sort of things that I’m in control of, so I feel a sense of accomplishment when I do them. 2 Oct 2018 - Jun 2020: 10 mg per day generic Escitalopram in pill form. Jul 2020 - Aug 2020: Switched to 9 mg per day of Cipralex drops to aid tapering. Sep 2020 - Oct 2020: Taper to 8 mg. Nov 2020 - Dec 2020: Taper to 7 mg. Jan 2021 - Feb 2021: Taper to 6 mg. Mar 2021 - Apr 2021: Taper to 5 mg. May 2021 - Jun 2021: Taper to 4 mg. Jul 2021 - Sep 2021: Taper to 3 mg. Sep 2021 - Jan 2022: Taper to 2 mg. Jan 2022: Stopped taking altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello20 Posted July 1 Author Share Posted July 1 On 6/8/2024 at 11:35 PM, jon1 said: It varies. I go through short periods where I wake earlier (although I'm nowhere near as 'wired' as I felt at the beginning of withdrawal), but I also have periods where I sleep like a baby and can barely wake up in the morning! I quit caffeine about a year ago, and that made quite a big difference to my sleep. @jon1Did you ever suffer from early morning waking regularly in withdrawals? Do you still have any symptoms if you don't mind me asking? Escitalopram approximately 2012 to March 31st 2023 20mg cold turkey. Back on to escitalopram 10 mg approximately 3weeks later. Switch to Fluoxetine approximately 3 weeks after that. Come off Fluoxetine 20 mg 22nd of June cold turkey. 2018 Saphris 5mg, 2022 Nov upped to 15mg, March 2024 decreased to 10mg, in April started to drop by 2.5mg a month. Got to 2.5mg and went back up to 7.5mg due to possibly dopamine sensitivety or withdrawal but can be sure. Not sure if kindled or withdrawal of symptoms I'm getting. Been on antipsychotics such as Serrequal, Abilify, Zyprexa, but can't remember dates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon1 Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 18 minutes ago, Hello20 said: @jon1Did you ever suffer from early morning waking regularly in withdrawals? Do you still have any symptoms if you don't mind me asking? Hey @Hello20, Yes I did. It still happens occasionally, but nowhere near as much as it did for the first couple of years. I'd usually wake at around 3-4am and feel like I'd had a coffee. Then be unable to sleep. I quit caffeine a year ago, and that seemed to be a turning point, but I don't know if that was just a conicence, as it had been improving anwyay. Yes, I still have plenty of symptoms and my life is still restricted. I still go through 'waves', but they do seem to be less intense than they used to be. I've been completely off my SSRI since January 2022, so 2 1/2 years. 2 Oct 2018 - Jun 2020: 10 mg per day generic Escitalopram in pill form. Jul 2020 - Aug 2020: Switched to 9 mg per day of Cipralex drops to aid tapering. Sep 2020 - Oct 2020: Taper to 8 mg. Nov 2020 - Dec 2020: Taper to 7 mg. Jan 2021 - Feb 2021: Taper to 6 mg. Mar 2021 - Apr 2021: Taper to 5 mg. May 2021 - Jun 2021: Taper to 4 mg. Jul 2021 - Sep 2021: Taper to 3 mg. Sep 2021 - Jan 2022: Taper to 2 mg. Jan 2022: Stopped taking altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello20 Posted July 1 Author Share Posted July 1 5 minutes ago, jon1 said: Hey @Hello20, Yes I did. It still happens occasionally, but nowhere near as much as it did for the first couple of years. I'd usually wake at around 3-4am and feel like I'd had a coffee. Then be unable to sleep. I quit caffeine a year ago, and that seemed to be a turning point, but I don't know if that was just a conicence, as it had been improving anwyay. Yes, I still have plenty of symptoms and my life is still restricted. I still go through 'waves', but they do seem to be less intense than they used to be. I've been completely off my SSRI since January 2022, so 2 1/2 years. Thanks for that @jon1 my main issue is the early morning waking exactly as you described it and what you have said gives me hope but I've noticed you were only on meds for about 2 years were I was on for like 10 to 12 years. ive also spoken to a lady that has had early morning waking for like 4 years which doesn't give me confidence my issue will resolve. Thank you for your information. Escitalopram approximately 2012 to March 31st 2023 20mg cold turkey. Back on to escitalopram 10 mg approximately 3weeks later. Switch to Fluoxetine approximately 3 weeks after that. Come off Fluoxetine 20 mg 22nd of June cold turkey. 2018 Saphris 5mg, 2022 Nov upped to 15mg, March 2024 decreased to 10mg, in April started to drop by 2.5mg a month. Got to 2.5mg and went back up to 7.5mg due to possibly dopamine sensitivety or withdrawal but can be sure. Not sure if kindled or withdrawal of symptoms I'm getting. Been on antipsychotics such as Serrequal, Abilify, Zyprexa, but can't remember dates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon1 Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 I'm sure it will eventually @Hello20. We're all different, and it's almost improssible to know how long it will take our brains to heal. Counting tapering time, I was on escitalopram for just under 3 1/2 years. I have read that SSRI's change the brain very quickly, within weeks, so I'm not sure if the length of time on the drugs is always indicative of how long it will take to reover. In the end, I've just resigned myself to the idea that when it happens, it happens! 2 Oct 2018 - Jun 2020: 10 mg per day generic Escitalopram in pill form. Jul 2020 - Aug 2020: Switched to 9 mg per day of Cipralex drops to aid tapering. Sep 2020 - Oct 2020: Taper to 8 mg. Nov 2020 - Dec 2020: Taper to 7 mg. Jan 2021 - Feb 2021: Taper to 6 mg. Mar 2021 - Apr 2021: Taper to 5 mg. May 2021 - Jun 2021: Taper to 4 mg. Jul 2021 - Sep 2021: Taper to 3 mg. Sep 2021 - Jan 2022: Taper to 2 mg. Jan 2022: Stopped taking altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGlassDarkly Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 @Hello20 Hi there. 30 years on/off SSRI use here. Been 2 years free of all the wretched meds now. Echo pretty well all of your observations and experiences of PAWS. I too went through a few months where I simply couldn't read books (a lifelong passion) at all. Likewise with winding down, say watching TV for example: it felt like my mind was restlessly wandering in another time/space no matter how hard I 'tried' to re-direct it. Ditto the 3am cortisol jump-start waking, and lying in a thin sleep. To end on a positive note – my trend has been broadly one of slow improvement, but with definite and frustrating setbacks (waves) to keep me on my toes! As I progress further along the recovery path I think I'm leaning toward @jon1 's philosophy: Quote In the end, I've just resigned myself to the idea that when it happens, it happens! …mainly because for me no one thing seems to make any real difference either way! 2 1988 (Age 24) Prozac – briefly, then ceased. 1990 – 2007 Citalopram 20mg, then 10mg. Several 6-month cold-turkey/hard-stops, then reinstatements. 2007 Venlafaxine briefly, then ceased. 2008 – 2010 Citalopram 10mg 2010 Wellbutrin (Buproprione XL) 150mg + Citalopram 10mg 2010 – 2018 Alternated either/or Wellbutrin (Buproprione XL)/Citalopram annually. 2019 – 2021 Switched Citalopram with Escitalopram (Lexapro) 10mg Sept 2021 Started Wellbutrin (Buproprione XL) 3 month taper (50%), skipping days. Dec 2021 Wellbutrin (Buproprione XL) ceased. Feb 2022 Started Escitalopram (Lexapro) 3 month taper (50%), skipping days. May 2022 Escitalopram (Lexapro) ceased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 I also have this early morning anxiety pike issue and I think it's related to trauma. During the morning obviously is when the work/school starts for most people, and since I was very little I have abandonment trauma for different reasons which always got triggered during the morning, that means lots of anxiety early during the day. My mind learned that during the morning is when I leave home and attachment gets disrupted so I don't feel safe. Also work/school is already and obviously stressing for lots of people per se. When we are taking psych drugs we don't have to face none of this, we live in autopilot mode, numbed. When I quit Sertraline all my emotional issues and trauma came back roaring but I wasn't able to make sense of them until now, close to 4 years later. Just my 2cents. Mid Feb 2017 - Mid March 2017 0.25mg Sertraline March 2017 - last months of 2019 0.50mg Sertraline Last months of 2019 - tappering, cold turkey and reinstating multiple times, decided to not take it any longer (suffering unknown withdrawal) April 2020 - end August 2020 - 0.50mg again, stopped cold turkey Jan/Feb 2021 (Can't remember exactly) - 0.25mg or 0.50mg Sertraline for 1-3 weeks max 0.00mg since August 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello20 Posted July 2 Author Share Posted July 2 @Gonzo I don't suffer from anxiety when waking anymore but just wake up early. I pretty much feel back to normal but still have a few psychological issues but can handle them. I worry about the early morning waking will be my normal now because i was talking to a lady on another site and she has had it for 4 years. Did you get to a point and feel pretty much normal and had issues that healed? Escitalopram approximately 2012 to March 31st 2023 20mg cold turkey. Back on to escitalopram 10 mg approximately 3weeks later. Switch to Fluoxetine approximately 3 weeks after that. Come off Fluoxetine 20 mg 22nd of June cold turkey. 2018 Saphris 5mg, 2022 Nov upped to 15mg, March 2024 decreased to 10mg, in April started to drop by 2.5mg a month. Got to 2.5mg and went back up to 7.5mg due to possibly dopamine sensitivety or withdrawal but can be sure. Not sure if kindled or withdrawal of symptoms I'm getting. Been on antipsychotics such as Serrequal, Abilify, Zyprexa, but can't remember dates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 So, I haven't fully healed yet, I'm now dealing with my original trauma. My issues are mostly trauma related now. If I had had the help I needed earlier, which I don't have, I wouldn't have these issues and this anxiety. So if it's trauma related and you have help and are not afraid to get into it, it can take much less time. I don't feel normal because I haven't healed. Mid Feb 2017 - Mid March 2017 0.25mg Sertraline March 2017 - last months of 2019 0.50mg Sertraline Last months of 2019 - tappering, cold turkey and reinstating multiple times, decided to not take it any longer (suffering unknown withdrawal) April 2020 - end August 2020 - 0.50mg again, stopped cold turkey Jan/Feb 2021 (Can't remember exactly) - 0.25mg or 0.50mg Sertraline for 1-3 weeks max 0.00mg since August 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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