Jonwil: Considering Mitrazapine for Benzo Withdrawl.

[jonwil]

I finally contacted a doctor about my withdrawl from Benzos today. I haven't so far because I hoped I might be better by now and they would probably gaslight me anyway. I was right, the gave me the return of old symptoms talk and prescribed me mitrazapine. I'm worried about taking it, side effects etc.

 

Does anyone who has taken it have any thoughts or advice? does it help you with sleep and moods etc. They prescribed 15mg to be taken at night. I'm also worried about start up effects.

Many Thanks.

[jonwil]

Hi, this is my first post on the forum. I am currently going through Benzo withdrawl and was considering taking the Mitrazapine at a low theriputic dose to help manage som difficult mental symptoms.

 

I was wondering if anyone here had experience of my situation? I was also wondering what the lowest theriputic dose was. Some have told me 15mg and some have said 30mg. I was also wondering if anyone could advise me on tapering onto the drug as I am concerned about side effects.

 

I took an SSRI for a few months in 2021 and had side effects going onto the drug. I dont want to add to my symptoms if I can help it. I have not yet decided if this is the course I am going to take and I'm just seeking invo and advice at the moment.

 

Many Thanks.

[LotusRising]

Hi @jonwil

 

We are a site for helping people go off antidepressants and are not in a position to make recommendations about new drugs. 

 

Ideally, you would work on coping skills rather than adding in additional medication.

 

What symptoms in particular are you having trouble with? We have a lot of resources - perhaps we could direct you to some?

[jonwil]

anxiety depression and insomnia. Nothing I try seems to make much of a dent

[Emonda]

Hi @jonwil

Can you please add some more detail to your signature. You mention Benzo withdrawal, however details of what you took and when are currently not in your signature.

 

So the moderators can best help you, please complete your drug signature by following these instructions. Adding a signature ensures your drug history appears at the bottom of every post, making it more efficient for those trying to assist.

 

This link should go directly to your own signature: Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

On 6/8/2024 at 4:55 AM, jonwil said:

prescribed me mitrazapine. I'm worried about taking it, side effects etc.

On 6/8/2024 at 4:55 AM, jonwil said:

Does anyone who has taken it have any thoughts or advice? does it help you with sleep and moods etc. They prescribed 15mg to be taken at night. I'm also worried about start up effects.

We can't provide any advice about starting a new medication.

We only provide information for those wanting to slower taper off medication.

Once you update your signature, someone will try to assist.

Regards, Emonda

[Emonda]

I've just seen that you have two active threads...I've joined them together.

 

Please post everything relating to yourself here.

[Boges11]

I highly highly recommend not taking anything.

how long off the benzo are you?

 

I was forced mirt for aka after three months post K taper and it’s horrific.

tapered to 5.8mg from 7.5mg forced in psych ward in December as they didn’t bother to tell me aka is a side effect of mirt.

for those of us that have been on a benzo previously, it seems to be really not good so I would never take one pill if I could help it.

i understand the hell as I had a brutal taper, however if slowing down snd witching to compound liquid helped me until I crashed at very end.

not sure if you’re still tapering but benzo warrior group on facebook is a very supportive group no matter where you are with regards to benzo.

 

please utilize any and all coping tips and suggestions.

if you have to try something, try a spec of unisom for sleep- 5mg or so. Try .25mg of melatonin , kids Ollie gummy, cut one in half or thirds and see if that helps. Low low dosss of melatonin , ie 0.5mg or 0.25mg are what can help and people don’t realize e that tiny if a dose is what’s best for sleep

but if you do try anything, try very very small amount bc we can be very reactive post or even during taper of benzos. Even with supplements. 
Or hydroxyzine /atarax has helped some people with sleep and anxiety but best to use as a one off in severe cases….and again try a tiny tiny amount (I used it a handful of times to help bridge many 0hr sleep nights and used maybe 5mg) if you have to use something. 

 

things do get better. I am 9 1/2mo off K and I’d be doing so so much better if I never was forced to take the mirt and now have to spend a very long time with another horrendous taper.

if you can’t stand it and still think trying mirt is what you want, people have had some sleep help with 1.875mg and 3mg….. but even then have had a year plus taper.

so def don’t do the high doses- most is more sedating at low doses, ie below 7.5mg

thay means compound liquid or cutting and weighing pills if you have to then taper.

so again try everything possible to not take anything else for benzo wd symptoms.

i survived on 0-3hrs sleep for 3 1/2yrs… and at low low K doses good sleep came back

mirt had messed me all

Up now 

 

[jonwil]

6 hours ago, Boges11 said:

I highly highly recommend not taking anything.

how long off the benzo are you?

 

I was forced mirt for aka after three months post K taper and it’s horrific.

tapered to 5.8mg from 7.5mg forced in psych ward in December as they didn’t bother to tell me aka is a side effect of mirt.

for those of us that have been on a benzo previously, it seems to be really not good so I would never take one pill if I could help it.

i understand the hell as I had a brutal taper, however if slowing down snd witching to compound liquid helped me until I crashed at very end.

not sure if you’re still tapering but benzo warrior group on facebook is a very supportive group no matter where you are with regards to benzo.

 

please utilize any and all coping tips and suggestions.

if you have to try something, try a spec of unisom for sleep- 5mg or so. Try .25mg of melatonin , kids Ollie gummy, cut one in half or thirds and see if that helps. Low low dosss of melatonin , ie 0.5mg or 0.25mg are what can help and people don’t realize e that tiny if a dose is what’s best for sleep

but if you do try anything, try very very small amount bc we can be very reactive post or even during taper of benzos. Even with supplements. 
Or hydroxyzine /atarax has helped some people with sleep and anxiety but best to use as a one off in severe cases….and again try a tiny tiny amount (I used it a handful of times to help bridge many 0hr sleep nights and used maybe 5mg) if you have to use something. 

 

things do get better. I am 9 1/2mo off K and I’d be doing so so much better if I never was forced to take the mirt and now have to spend a very long time with another horrendous taper.

if you can’t stand it and still think trying mirt is what you want, people have had some sleep help with 1.875mg and 3mg….. but even then have had a year plus taper.

so def don’t do the high doses- most is more sedating at low doses, ie below 7.5mg

thay means compound liquid or cutting and weighing pills if you have to then taper.

so again try everything possible to not take anything else for benzo wd symptoms.

i survived on 0-3hrs sleep for 3 1/2yrs… and at low low K doses good sleep came back

mirt had messed me all

Up now 

 

Thanks for your detailed reply! Can mit be used on a very occaisonal basis at low doeses for sleep or anxiety attacks? I have heard some have had success withit in that regard. Thanks again for your reply.

[jonwil]

Hi, I was prescribed mirtazapine and have been experiencing adverse start up affects. Severe agitation mainly. Will these effects level out? I'm on 15mg. Is it ok to just stop? If not how do I taper off? I must add I am 6 months off Valium and still in withdrawl which is why I tried taking it. Thanks

[jonwil]

Hi, I am on 3.75mg of mirtazapine down quickley from 15mg because of akathisia. I have been on around 2 months in all. My doctor won't support a slow taper and is going to pull me off the drug saying there will be no withdrawl. What to I do? I have about 11 pills left for a possible fast taper. I also have another box but it is a different brand.

[Erimus]

20 hours ago, jonwil said:

Hi, I am on 3.75mg of mirtazapine down quickley from 15mg because of akathisia. I have been on around 2 months in all. My doctor won't support a slow taper and is going to pull me off the drug saying there will be no withdrawl. What to I do? I have about 11 pills left for a possible fast taper. I also have another box but it is a different brand.

I would suggest you search for a new GP that is willing to prescribe mirtazapine. In the mean time, you still have 39 pills of mirtazapine. If these are 7.5mg tablets then you have a decent quantity to taper with.

[jonwil]

Thanks for your response Erimus. It's just I don't know much about tapering. Does anyone have any advice about what would be a good tapering plan with that amount? Many Thanks.

[Ariel]

Hi @jonwil

 

11 minutes ago, jonwil said:

I don't know much about tapering. Does anyone have any advice about what would be a good tapering plan with that amount?

 

That's what SA is for! We have so many great, free resources carefully authored and compiled over years of painstaking research and lived experience. 

The best thing you can do right now is familiarize yourself with the site, dive into the material, and get informed. 

When we educate ourselves, we empower ourselves!

 

To start, have a read through some of the most relevant tapering topics:

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Important topics in the Tapering forum and FAQ

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-Tapering

 

Tips for tapering off Mirtazapine

 

 

It's a lot of information at first, take your time. Go slow, read and re-read and review as needed.

I recommend taking notes by hand and printing things out if that feels useful, sometimes it's easier to retain information that way. 

Good luck, and happy learning!

 

In solidarity and support,

Ariel

[jonwil]

23 hours ago, Ariel said:

Hi @jonwil

 

 

That's what SA is for! We have so many great, free resources carefully authored and compiled over years of painstaking research and lived experience. 

The best thing you can do right now is familiarize yourself with the site, dive into the material, and get informed. 

When we educate ourselves, we empower ourselves!

 

To start, have a read through some of the most relevant tapering topics:

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Important topics in the Tapering forum and FAQ

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-Tapering

 

Tips for tapering off Mirtazapine

 

 

It's a lot of information at first, take your time. Go slow, read and re-read and review as needed.

I recommend taking notes by hand and printing things out if that feels useful, sometimes it's easier to retain information that way. 

Good luck, and happy learning!

 

In solidarity and support,

Ariel

Hi Ariel. Thanks for your response. I fear I dont have enough medication to do 10% cuts so I dont know what to do for the best. Is there any advice for faster tapers? Thanks.

[jonwil]

Hi. What are the best ways to taper mirtazapine. The pills I have a coating on them. I'm dry cutting them at the moment but am concerned about accuracy.

[LotusRising]

On 8/22/2024 at 9:46 AM, jonwil said:

Hi, I am on 3.75mg of mirtazapine down quickley from 15mg because of akathisia. I have been on around 2 months in all.

@jonwil What has it been like going from 15mg to 3.75mg over the last month?

 

What symptoms were you experiencing from the valium withdrawal, prior to starting mirtazapine?

[jonwil]

Just now, LotusRising said:

@jonwil What has it been like going from 15mg to 3.75mg over the last month?

 

What symptoms were you experiencing from the valium withdrawal, prior to starting mirtazapine?

Hi @LotusRising It has been a little rough coming down with big jumps, but to be honest not that much worse than before I started as I was experiencing strong symptoms anyway, which is why I reduced. I was developing Akathisia on 15 mg.

 

There was some strong DR and general instability a few days after each cut which has subsided after a week or so each time. The thing I am most concerned about is the Akathisia. It seems to alternate, a day bad, a day not so bad. Bad days involve 16 hours of pacing and SI.

 

My symptoms prior to going on the mirtazapine were severe depression, insomnia, mood instability, muscle cramps, severe stress attacks, agoriphobia etc. The mirtazapine symptoms seem to have overtook the benzo symptoms. Thanks for your response.

[jonwil]

7 minutes ago, jonwil said:

Hi @LotusRising It has been a little rough coming down with big jumps, but to be honest not that much worse than before I started as I was experiencing strong symptoms anyway, which is why I reduced. I was developing Akathisia on 15 mg.

 

There was some strong DR and general instability a few days after each cut which has subsided after a week or so each time. The thing I am most concerned about is the Akathisia. It seems to alternate, a day bad, a day not so bad. Bad days involve 16 hours of pacing and SI.

 

My symptoms prior to going on the mirtazapine were severe depression, insomnia, mood instability, muscle cramps, severe stress attacks, agoriphobia etc. The mirtazapine symptoms seem to have overtook the benzo symptoms. Thanks for your response.

Oh, I have recently started getting some 0 hour nights sleep also.

[LotusRising]

@jonwil

 

On 8/24/2024 at 4:49 PM, jonwil said:

The thing I am most concerned about is the Akathisia. It seems to alternate, a day bad, a day not so bad. Bad days involve 16 hours of pacing and SI.

 

 

Are you certain your akathisia is from the mirtazapine? I only ask because you mention experiencing benzo withdrawal symptoms still. I wonder if the every other day pattern could be windows and waves as your body tries to stabilize from the benzo.

 

[jonwil]

1 hour ago, LotusRising said:

@jonwil

 

 

Are you certain your akathisia is from the mirtazapine? I only ask because you mention experiencing benzo withdrawal symptoms still. I wonder if the every other day pattern could be windows and waves as your body tries to stabilize from the benzo.

 

Mirtazapine is the only med I'm on. I've been off benzos for 7 months. It started with the mirtazapine.

[LotusRising]

How long have you been at 3.75mg?

 

[jonwil]

11 minutes ago, LotusRising said:

How long have you been at 3.75mg?

 

hi @LotusRising About a month, thanks

[LotusRising]

@jonwil

 

Since you've been on it for such a short period of time, with symptoms settling between, I wonder if you could half it again.

 

You said the akathisia has been improved as you've lowered the dose?

 

 

[jonwil]

11 hours ago, LotusRising said:

@jonwil

 

Since you've been on it for such a short period of time, with symptoms settling between, I wonder if you could half it again.

 

You said the akathisia has been improved as you've lowered the dose?

 

 

I dont know if it's improved. But I don't think it's improved a lot. You think I should half it again? I really want to get off this stuff. I'm so confused by what to do. There's a lot of mixed info out there.

[LotusRising]

5 hours ago, jonwil said:

But I don't think it's improved a lot. You think I should half it again? I really want to get off this stuff. I'm so confused by what to do. There's a lot of mixed info out there.

If it were me and I knew it was causing akathisia, I'd want to get off too. I did this myself when I tried lyrica for pain. I took it for about 6 weeks with no noticeable 'good' effect, so I came off quickly by halving doses over about a month. I had no issue and was also in the middle of benzo WD.

 

I can't say for sure what your outcome would be, but it sounds like you've been stabilizing between reductions, which is reason to be optimistic about halving again and then stopping it. The other option would be switching to liquid, and continuing a slow taper.

[jonwil]

3 minutes ago, LotusRising said:

If it were me and I knew it was causing akathisia, I'd want to get off too. I did this myself when I tried lyrica for pain. I took it for about 6 weeks with no noticeable 'good' effect, so I came off quickly by halving doses over about a month. I had no issue and was also in the middle of benzo WD.

 

I can't say for sure what your outcome would be, but it sounds like you've been stabilizing between reductions, which is reason to be optimistic about halving again and then stopping it. The other option would be switching to liquid, and continuing a slow taper.

I dont think switching is an option as my doctors are pretty non compliant with this sort of thing. It's scary. I do feel the cuts but then get back to what I suppose you would call a base line. Which is still rough.

[jonwil]

ok, so I'm at 3.75mg mirt and have to do a fast taper with 8 pills. I have an extra 14 pills of a different brand but am told changing brands is a problem. Any advice? I feel like I'm in a lot of trouble as I'm already suffering bad symptoms. Any help is greatly apreciated. I feel very alone in this.

[Ariel]

On 8/24/2024 at 5:44 PM, jonwil said:

Hi Ariel. Thanks for your response. I fear I dont have enough medication to do 10% cuts so I dont know what to do for the best. Is there any advice for faster tapers? Thanks.

 

Hi @jonwil

SA generally doesn't recommend fast tapers, as I'm guessing you're aware.

 

5 hours ago, jonwil said:

ok, so I'm at 3.75mg mirt and have to do a fast taper with 8 pills. I have an extra 14 pills of a different brand but am told changing brands is a problem. Any advice? I feel like I'm in a lot of trouble as I'm already suffering bad symptoms. Any help is greatly apreciated. I feel very alone in this.

 

I'd suggest you tag a moderator for assistance. It looks like LotusRising has been helping you recently.

 

On 8/27/2024 at 8:35 PM, LotusRising said:

If it were me and I knew it was causing akathisia, I'd want to get off too. I did this myself when I tried lyrica for pain. I took it for about 6 weeks with no noticeable 'good' effect, so I came off quickly by halving doses over about a month. I had no issue and was also in the middle of benzo WD.

 

I can't say for sure what your outcome would be, but it sounds like you've been stabilizing between reductions, which is reason to be optimistic about halving again and then stopping it. The other option would be switching to liquid, and continuing a slow taper.

 

Did you not halve your current dose as discussed with LR?

 

Are you unable to get a new prescription to access more mirtazapine?

 

 

[jonwil]

30 minutes ago, Ariel said:

 

Hi @jonwil

SA generally doesn't recommend fast tapers, as I'm guessing you're aware.

 

 

I'd suggest you tag a moderator for assistance. It looks like LotusRising has been helping you recently.

 

 

Did you not halve your current dose as discussed with LR?

 

Are you unable to get a new prescription to access more mirtazapine?

 

 

it looks like I cant get a new perscription. I haven't halved my dose. Thanks.

[Ariel]

58 minutes ago, jonwil said:

it looks like I cant get a new perscription. I haven't halved my dose. Thanks.

 

What made you decide to not halve your dose after all?

Considering your discussion about it with LotusRising. 

 

How come you can't get a new prescription?

[jonwil]

45 minutes ago, Ariel said:

 

What made you decide to not halve your dose after all?

Considering your discussion about it with LotusRising. 

 

How come you can't get a new prescription?

The doctor says the dose I'm taking can't be doing anything so he's taking me off and there should be no withdrawl. I don't know what to do.

[Ariel]

6 minutes ago, jonwil said:

The doctor says the dose I'm taking can't be doing anything so he's taking me off and there should be no withdrawl. I don't know what to do.

 

That stinks, I'm sorry you have to deal with that. 

 

Have you considered:

 

a) telling the doctor you want to stay on mirtazapine indefinitely (lying, basically), not talking about withdrawal or tapering -- just saying, "Okay well I want to keep taking this medication," just so they'll keep prescribing it for however long you need so that you can complete your taper?

I know it's not ideal to lie to one's prescriber; for many of us we it's our only option in order to keep getting the meds we need to complete our tapers. We just don't tell the doctors that we're tapering, we act like we're taking the meds normally as prescribed.

 

b) switching to a new doctor/nurse prescriber who will provide you with prescriptions as needed (you don't have to tell them about WD or tapering)?

 

What made you decide to not halve your dose after all?

Considering your discussion about it with LotusRising. 

[jonwil]

7 minutes ago, Ariel said:

 

That stinks, I'm sorry you have to deal with that. 

 

Have you considered:

 

a) telling the doctor you want to stay on mirtazapine indefinitely (lying, basically), not talking about withdrawal or tapering -- just saying, "Okay well I want to keep taking this medication," just so they'll keep prescribing it for however long you need so that you can complete your taper?

I know it's not ideal to lie to one's prescriber; for many of us we it's our only option in order to keep getting the meds we need to complete our tapers. We just don't tell the doctors that we're tapering, we act like we're taking the meds normally as prescribed.

 

b) switching to a new doctor/nurse prescriber who will provide you with prescriptions as needed (you don't have to tell them about WD or tapering)?

 

What made you decide to not halve your dose after all?

Considering your discussion about it with LotusRising. 

There's already been to much fuss made about tapering so they wont believe me, and it's on my records so new doctors will see. I wasn't sure about halving the dose. Mabey I'll have to now. It's hard because I'm dry cutting. To get an accurate dose is difficult. the scale isn't to great. Thanks for responding.

[jonwil]

32 minutes ago, jonwil said:

The doctor says the dose I'm taking can't be doing anything so he's taking me off and there should be no withdrawl. I don't know what to do.

also, do you know anything about using a liquid to taper? How to obtain it etc. It's a long shot but I might put that to them as well. It's hard to get small doses with pills unless you have any advice on that? Thanks again.

[Ariel]

18 minutes ago, jonwil said:

There's already been to much fuss made about tapering so they wont believe me, and it's on my records so new doctors will see. I wasn't sure about halving the dose. Mabey I'll have to now. It's hard because I'm dry cutting. To get an accurate dose is difficult. the scale isn't to great. Thanks for responding.

 

I'm sorry to hear this. I don't know how it works in your country. Do you have the right to choose your own doctor/GP? 

Where I live (EU) we are allowed to choose our own GP. When we change from one GP to another, our medical records do not automatically follow. We have the right to refrain from having them transferred, i.e. the new GP seeing old medical journals requires our explicit consent, and we are allowed to not consent. 

 

Even if it's in your medical record that a new prescriber would see, you could say you changed your mind because the taper wasn't working. Surely there must be a NHS emergency prescribing option for people who are in dire need of their medication? 

I understand if you're feeling discouraged, and if it's unpleasant or uncomfortable dealing with health services. This is not to pressure you, I'm just trying to support you in advocating for yourself. 

 

Here's a recent interview with psychiatrists David Taylor and Mark Horowitz, who together authored The Maudsley Deprescribing Guidelines, an official, scientifically researched reference manual on how to correctly taper off of psychiatric drugs. Perhaps this could serve as useful documentation/evidence when dealing with any prescribers / health authorities moving forward. 

 

We also have a topic on How to talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal

 

You are right to want to come off of mirtazapine as slowly as possible. 

Don't give up, jonwil -- take heart and stand up for yourself, you're worth it! 

[Ariel]

5 minutes ago, jonwil said:

also, do you know anything about using a liquid to taper? How to obtain it etc. It's a long shot but I might put that to them as well. It's hard to get small doses with pills unless you have any advice on that? Thanks again.

 

Honestly, if you're dealing with physicians who stubbornly deny/refuse to learn about WD, I wouldn't waste my energy trying to convince/educate them about tapers, liquid or otherwise. If I were in your position, down to my last stash of drugs, I'd focus my efforts on finding a new prescriber, someone who would prescribe the drugs for as long as needed. And I would be very pragmatic about it, lying as needed to get my prescription. That's just me, speaking as someone whose life has been destroyed by CTs, fast tapers, cold switches, and decades of polypharmacy, incorrect prescribing as well as incorrect deprescribing. My point of view is f*** them, it's my body, my life, the consequences of WD are mine to suffer -- I'd lie as needed. 

 

That being said, here's the SA info on liquid tapers.

 

You'll find many more important topics here.

 

In my previous post I've provided links to some possible resources to show your doctor, incl. The Maudsley Deprescribing Guidelines