PSunshine85: Time to open up for life

[PSunshine85]

Hello everyone,

 

With some hesitation I am writing this introductory post to tell you my story and to tell you what will be my attempt to live without a "aid" and to open myself completely to life, accepting both its positive and negative emotions. But, precisely, by living them and not anesthetizing them.

It all began
 

I am currently 38 years old and started my history with antidepressants about 15 years ago, in 2009, when a GP prescribed me Sereupin (Paroxetine) because of my anxious states mainly due to non-acceptance of myself and my body (I have now given it a name, Body Dysmorphic disorder). Over the course of all these years I will have been probably 2 to 3 years without medication, with a state of mental malaise that at the time I did not relate back to the withdrawal symptoms. Regarding dosage, 90% of the time I have always taken 10mg and I recently decided to start this journey of mine to eliminate (or at least try to eliminate) SSRIs from my life, to feel like myself again and not in a cage. I think you all share with me that, one of the reasons we are here, is to feel alive, to feel our full potential, to accept mistakes and to grow.

Where am I at the moment?

A few days ago I started my tapering journey, switching from tablets (Sereupin, brand name in Italy) to a generic liquid form, Dropaxin (1ml equals to 10mg). I am currently experiencing some discomfort in switching to the liquid form, I have read that many people have had such problems or switching to generic drugs, I would be really grateful if you could tell me your experiences in this regard. I will still give myself a few weeks to adjust and evaluate.

What's the plan?

The plan is for a very gradual reduction of 1mg every 4 to 8 weeks to 5mg, where I plan to stay for longer and plan for a hyperbolic reduction. I suggest anyone to watch this video that explains in a very simple way why withdrawal symptoms occur and, as described in this forum, strategies to avoid them as much as possible: How to Taper Antidepressants to Avoid a Withdrawal (Discontinuation) Syndrome?

Alternative supports and supplements:

 

For about a month I have been taking 10 to 15 grams of myo-inositol. I perceive marked help, especially in sleeping. A post by a psychiatrist that has been very helpful to me: LISTENING TO INOSITOL: CLINICAL NOTES


Thank you for your attention, and I hope it does not remain just an introductory post but can make steady improvements over time.

[Catwoman73]

Hello @PSunshine85, and welcome to SA!  We are a community of volunteers providing peer support for the tapering off of psychiatric medications.  So you've come to the right place! Thank you for completing your drug signature!

 

Your tapering plan sounds a lot like mine did when I first arrived here, albeit with a different drug.  I had tapered myself to 50% of my original dosage over a six month period, and planned to start a hyperbolic taper at that point.  It seems to have worked out ok for me, but Paroxetine is a beast, and is probably one of the better known antidepressants for causing severe withdrawal symptoms.  You may want to consider starting your hyperbolic taper now as opposed to a 1mg at a time decrease until you hit 5mg.  Click this link to read more about the importance of hyperbolic tapering. 

 

That being said, it is entirely up to you how you choose to taper, and we are here to support you 100% of the way.  I would strongly recommend keeping a symptom diary to look for patterns, figure out when your withdrawal symptoms peak after a dosage change, and to be able to look back and see how far you've come!  And do be prepared to change your plan if needed- if you notice that symptoms are becoming intolerable, you may need to slow down in these initial phases.  

 

I had some difficulty switching to the liquid form of my medication as well.  That seems to be fairly common around here, and likely has to do with a change in the absorption of the medication.  For me, it settled fairly quickly- definitely within 3-4 weeks- but we're all different.  Just keep monitoring those symptoms, and adjust your taper to ensure you are able to continue to function in your daily life. Question- did you drop your dosage at the same time you switched to the liquid form?  That's how it appears in your drug signature.  We strongly recommend changing to liquid and holding your dosage until you adjust. Some people even need to take things slower, by perhaps taking 5mg in tablet form, and 5mg in liquid form for a while.  So you do have some options, should you feel that the withdrawal symptoms are too much for you. 

 

I was not familiar with Inositol, but did a quick drug interaction check, and it does not seem to have any interactions with Paroxetine.  Do be aware though, that many of us develop sensitivities to various drugs, supplements and even food while tapering.  Again, this is where the symptom diary comes in- tracking symptoms makes it easier to discern what might be causing a flare up of symptoms.  I've glad you found some relief from it, though- particularly around sleep.  Insomnia is such a terrible withdrawal symptom, and we typically only recommend magnesium to assist with this. 

 

Just a couple of other things to be aware of- improvements are pretty much never linear- they typically follow the windows and waves pattern of stabilization.  That is- you have periods where you feel not so bad, and periods where the withdrawal symptoms flare up.  This is absolutely normal, so do not be alarmed if you have some rough patches along the way. And withdrawal can last a long time, and will continue for some time after the drug is fully out of your system.  This may sound daunting and a bit depressing, but the reality is, you are healing all the time as you taper, so you have lots of reason to be hopeful.

 

Again, welcome, and I look forward to following your journey!❤️

[PSunshine85]

Hello @Catwoman73, thank you for your welcome message, for the time spent and dedicated to me, and for the support you offer to all those people who are in the same situation as us.

I absolutely plan to start keeping a journal. Regarding the switch to liquid form, yes, I made the switch at the same time that I made the first reduction. I will take into consideration all your valuable advice and also evaluate based on the symptoms, which, fortunately, at the moment are not unbearable and allow me to go about my activities without problems. I am heartened to hear that you also had a similar experience in switching to the liquid form and that this was resolved in a short time.

On myo-inositol, believe me, I've tried so many of those supplements over the years, and while some may help a little bit (or have a placebo effect), as you say, in most cases they only make things worse. Let me humbly advise you to read the article I shared and try myo-inositol (from a good brand, and especially in powder form). On me it has a similar effect to SSRIs, quieting my mind and negative thoughts and relaxing me, but without the side effects. I must say, however, that it took me two weeks to start feeling the benefits. I will look into magnesium as a sleep aid and support, thanks for the advice.

Talk to you all soon!

[Catwoman73]

17 minutes ago, PSunshine85 said:

Hello @Catwoman73, thank you for your welcome message, for the time spent and dedicated to me, and for the support you offer to all those people who are in the same situation as us.

I absolutely plan to start keeping a journal. Regarding the switch to liquid form, yes, I made the switch at the same time that I made the first reduction. I will take into consideration all your valuable advice and also evaluate based on the symptoms, which, fortunately, at the moment are not unbearable and allow me to go about my activities without problems. I am heartened to hear that you also had a similar experience in switching to the liquid form and that this was resolved in a short time.

On myo-inositol, believe me, I've tried so many of those supplements over the years, and while some may help a little bit (or have a placebo effect), as you say, in most cases they only make things worse. Let me humbly advise you to read the article I shared and try myo-inositol (from a good brand, and especially in powder form). On me it has a similar effect to SSRIs, quieting my mind and negative thoughts and relaxing me, but without the side effects. I must say, however, that it took me two weeks to start feeling the benefits. I will look into magnesium as a sleep aid and support, thanks for the advice.

Talk to you all soon!

I will absolutely check it out- I'm always interested to learn new things!

 

Keep us posted on how you're doing!  I've been using this forum as something of a diary... I have my own private symptom journal, but staying engaged with this community is really helpful in recovery.  You can always find someone who has experienced what you are currently going through, and it helps so much to know that we're not alone!

[PSunshine85]

Was having a thought this morning. I think one of the reasons we suffer so much tapering ADs is not inly withdrawal but also coping with emotions. I mean, we have been "silenced" for so long that we are not used anymore to listen to them and to elaborate them in the right way. Anyway, I'm also interested in getting to know and learn meditation, many talk good about it!

[Alfred1977]

3 minutes ago, PSunshine85 said:

Was having a thought this morning. I think one of the reasons we suffer so much tapering ADs is not inly withdrawal but also coping with emotions. I mean, we have been "silenced" for so long that we are not used anymore to listen to them and to elaborate them in the right way. Anyway, I'm also interested in getting to know and learn meditation, many talk good about it!

I am also sometimes thinking about this. I guess there is the need for physical adaptation of the brain but there probably is also the need for psychological/emotional adaptation of our personality when withdrawing over a longer period of time.

[PSunshine85]

5 minutes ago, Alfred1977 said:

I am also sometimes thinking about this. I guess there is the need for physical adaptation of the brain but there probably is also the need for psychological/emotional adaptation of our personality when withdrawing over a longer period of time.

Hi @Alfred1977 thank you for replying. I agree with you, it is for sure something we have to work on. The brain will re-adapt by itself as we help him to rationally elaborate and accept our emotions. Hence the importance of listening to ourselves, without judgment.

Wish you a very good day!

[Catwoman73]

7 hours ago, PSunshine85 said:

Was having a thought this morning. I think one of the reasons we suffer so much tapering ADs is not inly withdrawal but also coping with emotions. I mean, we have been "silenced" for so long that we are not used anymore to listen to them and to elaborate them in the right way. Anyway, I'm also interested in getting to know and learn meditation, many talk good about it!

This is absolutely true @PSunshine85!  Way back in the 90s, when I started my antidepressant journey, I started because I had a bad breakup with my first serious boyfriend, and I didn't know how to deal with the grief that followed.  I had a difficult childhood, and was never really shown how to deal with big emotions- my dad just drowned them in alcohol, and my mom didn't have coping skills either to serve as a role model.  So now I've been on AD's for 30 years, and I'm just figuring out how to cope with my emotions now.  I've been numbed for 30 years.  It's crazy to think about!

 

Do check out this thread if you are interested in meditation: Easing your way into meditation for a stressed out nervous system.  It is one of the many techniques I am learning to deal with those big emotions, and with withdrawal symptoms as well!

[PSunshine85]

2 hours ago, Catwoman73 said:

This is absolutely true @PSunshine85!  Way back in the 90s, when I started my antidepressant journey, I started because I had a bad breakup with my first serious boyfriend, and I didn't know how to deal with the grief that followed.  I had a difficult childhood, and was never really shown how to deal with big emotions- my dad just drowned them in alcohol, and my mom didn't have coping skills either to serve as a role model.  So now I've been on AD's for 30 years, and I'm just figuring out how to cope with my emotions now.  I've been numbed for 30 years.  It's crazy to think about!

 

Do check out this thread if you are interested in meditation: Easing your way into meditation for a stressed out nervous system.  It is one of the many techniques I am learning to deal with those big emotions, and with withdrawal symptoms as well!

Hi @Catwoman73, I can relate to your story.... not because of the relationship. But because of facing a big emotional grief without anyone teaching me how..

It's funny, because if we hadn't relied on an antidepressant, we would most likely have learned how to deal with that pain, and overcome it naturally. As it happens (according to literature) and as it did when antidepressants did not exist. But you know, human beings most of the time choose the quick and easy way. Which unfortunately, always leads to consequences.

I think you deserve, despite the antidepressants, to learn to manage and embrace your emotions. And just being aware of the trap you have fallen into must make you proud. And I, although I don't know you, am proud of what you are doing. After all, let's not forget that we are human beings

Thanks for the link, I look forward to learning how to use new tools to live a full life without shortcuts!

[PSunshine85]

Hello there!

 

Just came to say hi and share an update! Doing well, some days are better, some worse, but still motivated to pursuit my journey.

I know I will be facing difficult times dealing with my emotions surfacing from within. Reason why I want to use this tapering period as a way to grow, look inside me and better undestand my feelings. I've recetly bought and started reading a book called "The six pillars of self-esteem", I found it very well written and a good read for those with low self-esteem, like me. There is also the free audio book on youtube if you search for it. I recommend it.

Bye

[Catwoman73]

4 hours ago, PSunshine85 said:

Hello there!

 

Just came to say hi and share an update! Doing well, some days are better, some worse, but still motivated to pursuit my journey.

I know I will be facing difficult times dealing with my emotions surfacing from within. Reason why I want to use this tapering period as a way to grow, look inside me and better undestand my feelings. I've recetly bought and started reading a book called "The six pillars of self-esteem", I found it very well written and a good read for those with low self-esteem, like me. There is also the free audio book on youtube if you search for it. I recommend it.

Bye

So glad to hear you're doing ok!  One day... sometimes one MINUTE... at a time!

 

I will check out the book!  I'm always looking for new reading material, but sometimes, reading is painfully slow for me, due to brain fog.  Maybe the audiobook might be the way to go!!

[PSunshine85]

3 hours ago, Catwoman73 said:

So glad to hear you're doing ok!  One day... sometimes one MINUTE... at a time!

 

I will check out the book!  I'm always looking for new reading material, but sometimes, reading is painfully slow for me, due to brain fog.  Maybe the audiobook might be the way to go!!

Here it is: (Life Changing!) The Six Pillars of Self Esteem by Nathaniel Branden | Full Audiobook

[PSunshine85]

Thought of the day....

 

It may be my predisposition to change (and to the elimination of the antidepressant as protection) and to accept myself as a human being worthy of love and happiness, but in these first 10 days I feel that I have the opportunity to use my mind in my favour. I have more energy, emotions are not suppressed although they need to be addressed.

 

I think that just not trusting our mind, being absolutely convinced that we cannot live without support, is the main cause of our pain and shame.

[PSunshine85]

Hello everyone, an update related to my journey. As of today, after one month, I have scaled down further to 8mg. I will evaluate based on symptoms, whether to scale down again in 1 month or stay at this dosage for longer.
 

In terms of how I feel, I had some difficulties adjusting to the transition to the liquid form, fortunately then resolved within a couple of weeks. Mood is definitely lower than before, emotions and original thinking pattern is re-emerging. However, this allows me to process my emotions and not suppress them. I will do my best and try to do anything that can help me in this regard. I'm reading, making new friends, exercising (more or less consistently), and have started meditating.

Thank you all!

[Catwoman73]

6 hours ago, PSunshine85 said:

Hello everyone, an update related to my journey. As of today, after one month, I have scaled down further to 8mg. I will evaluate based on symptoms, whether to scale down again in 1 month or stay at this dosage for longer.
 

In terms of how I feel, I had some difficulties adjusting to the transition to the liquid form, fortunately then resolved within a couple of weeks. Mood is definitely lower than before, emotions and original thinking pattern is re-emerging. However, this allows me to process my emotions and not suppress them. I will do my best and try to do anything that can help me in this regard. I'm reading, making new friends, exercising (more or less consistently), and have started meditating.

Thank you all!

This all sounds great, @PSunshine85!  You're dealing with this like a champ!  Stay present, pay attention to your body's signals, and you'll do just fine!  

 

Going from 9mg to 8mg is a slightly bigger jump than the 10% we recommend here.  Not a super concerning jump, but it's something to be mindful of. Next time, you might consider just dropping by 10%, down to 7.2mg.  These drugs have exponentially larger effects on the brain as we drop lower and lower, so that 10% cutoff becomes even more important as we proceed.  Be open to going even slower too- I'm currently dropping at 5% at a time, and will be discussing a brassmonkey slide taper with my provider later today.  Slow and steady wins!

 

Keep up the good work- you should be very proud of yourself!

[PSunshine85]

3 hours ago, Catwoman73 said:

This all sounds great, @PSunshine85!  You're dealing with this like a champ!  Stay present, pay attention to your body's signals, and you'll do just fine!  

 

Going from 9mg to 8mg is a slightly bigger jump than the 10% we recommend here.  Not a super concerning jump, but it's something to be mindful of. Next time, you might consider just dropping by 10%, down to 7.2mg.  These drugs have exponentially larger effects on the brain as we drop lower and lower, so that 10% cutoff becomes even more important as we proceed.  Be open to going even slower too- I'm currently dropping at 5% at a time, and will be discussing a brassmonkey slide taper with my provider later today.  Slow and steady wins!

 

Keep up the good work- you should be very proud of yourself!

 

Hello @Catwoman73, thank you so much for your kind words, I really appreciate it. 

 

Believe me, I am open to tapering even more slowly, and I will listen to the signals of my body and mind. I am already thinking that being at 8mg will take longer than just one month, so, I don't want to rush it, and I will evaluate as I go along.

I really thank you for your encouragement, I know it will not be an easy thing, and although I feel more "vulnerable" right now, I am still convinced and determined to continue this challenge. In fact, I think challenge is the wrong word. Each of us has the right to be happy.

I hope your journey is also going well, I will keep you updated. 🙏

[PSunshine85]

Hi everyone, I wanted to share with you this video that I found very interesting about the use of antidepressants over a long period of time.

 

 

As for me, oddly enough the transition from 9mg to 8mg was easier, I had probably suffered the transition to the liquid form more than the scaling down itself. I will keep you updated on the progress.

 

I send everyone a warm hug.

[Catwoman73]

I watch Dr. Josef religiously!  Angie Peacock too.  There's lots of great info out there, if you know where to look!

 

I'm glad to hear your taper is going well!  Do keep us posted!

[PSunshine85]

Hello everyone,

I would like to ask a question regarding liquid solutions of SSRIs. Specifically, having switched to the liquid form of paxil, it says on the package that the drops can be taken within 60 days of opening the bottle.

 

Can anyone explain why? Does the active ingredient somehow "deactivate" upon contact with air? Or is there another explanation? It is my curiosity.

 

Thank you in advance!

[Erimus]

As soon as the seal is broken the liquid begins to expire. When the bottle is sealed the conditions within change very slowly as it is a closed environment.

[Catwoman73]

How are you doing, @PSunshine85?

[PSunshine85]

2 hours ago, Erimus said:

As soon as the seal is broken the liquid begins to expire. When the bottle is sealed the conditions within change very slowly as it is a closed environment.

Hello Erimus,

 

Thank you for your reply. However, I wondered what the "science" behind it was. In the sense, whether the liquid can become contaminated with bacteria or if indeed it can lose effectiveness past the specified period, and for what reason.

[PSunshine85]

1 hour ago, Catwoman73 said:

How are you doing, @PSunshine85?

Hi Catwoman,

 

Thank you for your message. I'm fine thank you for asking. I decided to give myself some more time before scaling to 7mg. Sometimes I feel super normal, sometimes I feel the withdrawal symptoms: chattering mind, anxiety, mood a little down. That's why I don't want to rush; I know for a fact that time is the master of this path.

By the way, I had posted the liquid form question in a separate thread on another section. It was merged into my thread, correct?

[Catwoman73]

Yes, it looks like Erimus merged it.  

 

Don't forget about hyperbolic tapering- 7mg is more than a 10% drop, whenever you do decide to drop again.  7.2 would be a safer bet for you!

 

Glad you're doing well!  Windows and waves are absolutely normal, and a good sign of healing!

[PSunshine85]

Hi everyone,

 

I wanted to post an update. After about two months since my last scaling, as of today I scaled further to 7mg. I wanted to take more time to stabilize my mood but also because I had summer vacation and didn't want to “ruin” it.

 

I will start by saying that I am very proud of myself, even though the path is still long, I have managed to continue to lead a purely normal life. Of course, sometimes the mood is much lower than before, but I am beginning to feel more than before, like a slow awakening after a long time. This gives me the strength to continue. Also, apart from just the mood, social anxiety and sometimes irritability, I have no problems with insomnia (that's the thing I was most worried about, but the myo-inositol helps me with that) and no other discontinuation effects, none physical in particular.

 

As for supplements, I continue to take myo-inositol but not every day and only before bedtime when I feel I need it. It really helps me “turn off” the mental rumination and fall asleep. 

Since about ten days also, I have started experimenting with l-tryptophan (which is a precursor of 5-htp which in turn is a precursor of serotonin). My thought is that after taking antidepressants for such a long period of time, my brain is no longer able to produce serotonin naturally, so in hopes of helping a little bit to lift my mood I decided to experiment with this supplement. I will of course keep you updated.

 

I will conclude by saying that I am optimistic and happy that I made this decision. I hope that anyone who reads me and is going through the same journey will be able to hang in there. This forum and all the users, are an invaluable source of help!

[Catwoman73]

I'm so glad you're doing well, @PSunshine85!  It was smart to hold over the summer so as not to ruin your vacation- that shows very good judgement!

 

Just a reminder, dropping from 8mg to 7mg is a 12.5% cut, which is significantly larger than the 10% max that we recommend here.  It looks like you are continuing on a linear tapering path, rather than a hyperbolic one- this will become more and more difficult as you progress to lower and lower doses.  Please review this thread on the importance of tapering hyperbolically- I would not want to you get in trouble at lower doses, where these drugs have a much larger impact on the brain:

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Keep up the good work on managing your symptoms on continuing to engage with life throughout the process!  It sounds like you're doing great! ❤️

[PSunshine85]

15 hours ago, Catwoman73 said:

I'm so glad you're doing well, @PSunshine85!  It was smart to hold over the summer so as not to ruin your vacation- that shows very good judgement!

 

Just a reminder, dropping from 8mg to 7mg is a 12.5% cut, which is significantly larger than the 10% max that we recommend here.  It looks like you are continuing on a linear tapering path, rather than a hyperbolic one- this will become more and more difficult as you progress to lower and lower doses.  Please review this thread on the importance of tapering hyperbolically- I would not want to you get in trouble at lower doses, where these drugs have a much larger impact on the brain:

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Keep up the good work on managing your symptoms on continuing to engage with life throughout the process!  It sounds like you're doing great! ❤️

 

Hi @Catwoman73, I was ready for your telling off 😀Joking aside, thank you for your words, always appreciated. Yes, I am aware that I am scaling faster, but I will try to get to 5mg before I start hyperbolic scaling. Always ready to revise my choices based on how I feel.

 

I hope you are doing well too! We will update soon

[Catwoman73]

Lol... too funny!

 

I just worry that it's going to catch up to you at some point, and then you end up in a mess of trying to updose to mitigate symptoms, and then potentially developing hypersensitivities.  Of course, you can choose whatever you like, and we're here to support you no matter what!  I just need to do my job, and warn you about the potential problems!

 

In any case, I'm so glad you're doing well!  Keep up the good work! ❤️