Xcaretuk Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 I am not sure if this allowed so please let me know if I shouldn’t have posted it. Mark H is being given a hard time in regard to slower tapering methods by a Dr Kendrick. If anyone is up to it and agrees with Mark Horowitz safer tapering protocol would they consider giving him some support on X. Thank you 1 1998(approx.) 20mg Paroxetine, 1998 -2015 various unsuccessful tapers, 2015 app 6 month taper to 0, 2015 approx 6 months later reinstated original brand after debilitating neurological delayed WD symptoms. Made worse after surgery.2023 Famotidine, Cetirizine, New Generic, muscle relaxer. March/April19th June, 2023 - 23rd July, 2023: Paroxetine Dosage reduced from 20mg to 15mg (on 15mg for 35 days), no significant symptoms. 24th July, 2023 - 26th July, 2023: Paroxetine Dosage reduced from 15mg to 12.5mg (on 12.5mg for 3 days), no significant symptoms. 27th July, 2023 - 3rd September, 2023: Paroxetine Dosage reduced from 12.5mg to 10mg (on 10mg for 39 days), no significant symptoms. 4th September, 2023 - 15th September, 2023: Paroxetine Dosage reduced from 10mg to 5mg i.e. 10mg every other day (on 5mg for 12 days), although not noted, must have experienced some symptoms, as I decided to return to previous 10mg dosage on the 16th September. 16th September, 2023 - 25th November, 2023: Dosage increased from 5mg to 10mg i.e. 10mg every day (on 10mg for 71 days), symptoms start dates: Late September sweating, shaking and right side upper back pain., 5th October 23: Upper back pain worsening,21st Oct 23: Night time symptoms: insomnia, nausea, sweats, headaches, some anxiety (predominantly in the mornings)27th Oct 23 admitted to hospital with 1st hypertensive crisis with severe frontal headache (now suspected of withdrawal ) BP 225/115. Admitted twice more with high BP . Doctors at a loss for cause. Given anti nausea, anti anxiety and sleeping tabs in hospital. . 1st Nov 23: , heart palpitations, some anxiety.. 7th Nov 23: Anxiety was now becoming more frequent (not severe). 26th November, 2023 Dosage increased from 10mg to 20mg possibly first time taking 20 mg of Extine, new manufacturer. Approx around this time came of antihistamines . 3rd Dec 23 - 18th Dec, 23: Started taking 7.5mg - 15mg of Oxazepam when anxiety became unbearable only took 8 in total now stopped. Symptoms now more severe have head pain rather than headache. .Electrical shocks through body overnight accompanied by head pain. Sheer terror,. Sore eyes. 23rd Dec 23: All symptoms remain the same i.e. severe except for the last 2 days where my anxiety levels have not been as severe/ extreme and somewhat manageable (later in the day).22 Jan 24 Have some windows now but still suffering from all day head pain, upper back pain, waking up inner restlessness and terror , nausea, intermittent feelings of fear and wake up 12.30 am every morning and sometimes up to 3 times a night with weird tingling down arms and back, pounding heart head pain and nausea. 2nd March 24, head pain/eye pain everyday and all day and & night wake ups.. Mild Akathisia early morning,, upper back pain, sweats. Anxiety much better. 21st April 24, drop 2.25% drop to 19.5 mg to test help with head /eye nerve pain and new symptom tinnitus. 12/5/24 19mg still eye/head/ back pain. Mild AKA AM. 2/6/24 18.93mg 9/8/24 18.04mg, 16/8/24 18mg, 19/9/24 17.6mg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Emonda Posted July 12 Administrator Share Posted July 12 Dear @Xcaretuk, Thanks for sharing. I'm not sure where to put this post...so it can stay here until someone else moves it 😊 I am saddened to read this. Dr Mark Horowitz has made an invaluable contribution to this field and to my own tapering journey. I've never joined twitter / X...I'd better take a look into it! Cheers, Emonda 1 Please don't send me PMs. I am not a doctor. My comments are based on my personal experience with ADs and tapering. Consult your doctor about your own medical decisions. Start of taper: Jan ’22 Vortioxetine 15mg, End year 1: 4.5mg, End year 2: 2.38mg, Year 3: 8 Feb 2.19mg, 21 Mar 1.99mg, 2 May 1.83mg, 13 Jun 1.69mg, 25 Jul 1.50mg, 14 Aug 1.46mg, 3 Sep 1.43mg, 10 Sep 1.40mg, 17 Sep 1.37mg, 16 Oct 1.34mg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xcaretuk Posted July 12 Author Share Posted July 12 26 minutes ago, Emonda said: Dear @Xcaretuk, Thanks for sharing. I'm not sure where to put this post...so it can stay here until someone else moves it 😊 I am saddened to read this. Dr Mark Horowitz has made an invaluable contribution to this field and to my own tapering journey. I've never joined twitter / X...I'd better take a look into it! Cheers, Emonda Thanks Emonda. So disappointing…🙏 1998(approx.) 20mg Paroxetine, 1998 -2015 various unsuccessful tapers, 2015 app 6 month taper to 0, 2015 approx 6 months later reinstated original brand after debilitating neurological delayed WD symptoms. Made worse after surgery.2023 Famotidine, Cetirizine, New Generic, muscle relaxer. March/April19th June, 2023 - 23rd July, 2023: Paroxetine Dosage reduced from 20mg to 15mg (on 15mg for 35 days), no significant symptoms. 24th July, 2023 - 26th July, 2023: Paroxetine Dosage reduced from 15mg to 12.5mg (on 12.5mg for 3 days), no significant symptoms. 27th July, 2023 - 3rd September, 2023: Paroxetine Dosage reduced from 12.5mg to 10mg (on 10mg for 39 days), no significant symptoms. 4th September, 2023 - 15th September, 2023: Paroxetine Dosage reduced from 10mg to 5mg i.e. 10mg every other day (on 5mg for 12 days), although not noted, must have experienced some symptoms, as I decided to return to previous 10mg dosage on the 16th September. 16th September, 2023 - 25th November, 2023: Dosage increased from 5mg to 10mg i.e. 10mg every day (on 10mg for 71 days), symptoms start dates: Late September sweating, shaking and right side upper back pain., 5th October 23: Upper back pain worsening,21st Oct 23: Night time symptoms: insomnia, nausea, sweats, headaches, some anxiety (predominantly in the mornings)27th Oct 23 admitted to hospital with 1st hypertensive crisis with severe frontal headache (now suspected of withdrawal ) BP 225/115. Admitted twice more with high BP . Doctors at a loss for cause. Given anti nausea, anti anxiety and sleeping tabs in hospital. . 1st Nov 23: , heart palpitations, some anxiety.. 7th Nov 23: Anxiety was now becoming more frequent (not severe). 26th November, 2023 Dosage increased from 10mg to 20mg possibly first time taking 20 mg of Extine, new manufacturer. Approx around this time came of antihistamines . 3rd Dec 23 - 18th Dec, 23: Started taking 7.5mg - 15mg of Oxazepam when anxiety became unbearable only took 8 in total now stopped. Symptoms now more severe have head pain rather than headache. .Electrical shocks through body overnight accompanied by head pain. Sheer terror,. Sore eyes. 23rd Dec 23: All symptoms remain the same i.e. severe except for the last 2 days where my anxiety levels have not been as severe/ extreme and somewhat manageable (later in the day).22 Jan 24 Have some windows now but still suffering from all day head pain, upper back pain, waking up inner restlessness and terror , nausea, intermittent feelings of fear and wake up 12.30 am every morning and sometimes up to 3 times a night with weird tingling down arms and back, pounding heart head pain and nausea. 2nd March 24, head pain/eye pain everyday and all day and & night wake ups.. Mild Akathisia early morning,, upper back pain, sweats. Anxiety much better. 21st April 24, drop 2.25% drop to 19.5 mg to test help with head /eye nerve pain and new symptom tinnitus. 12/5/24 19mg still eye/head/ back pain. Mild AKA AM. 2/6/24 18.93mg 9/8/24 18.04mg, 16/8/24 18mg, 19/9/24 17.6mg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 Does this Dr. Kendrick think Dr. Horowitz is too slow? Paxil Reductions: December 2022: Paxil 40 to 30mg (went OK); May 2023: Paxil 30 to 20 mg (went OK); Oct. 14, 2023: Paxil 15mg; Oct. 21, 2023: Paxil 10mg (done w/ conventional doc -- bottom dropped out 3 weeks later) Nov. 9, 2023: tried reinstating to 20mg but reacted very badly (probably kindling) November 18, 2023: 7.5ml (15mg equivalent) *switch to manufacturer's liquid, Novatium* Doctor switched me to 7.5ml liquid b/c tiny pills were splitting unevenly - further destabilization by both switching to liquid and changing dose at same time. November 2023 - present: *severe* withdrawal symptoms, akathisia Jan 6 2024 - stopped coffee and all forms of caffeine. Eliminated dairy, processed foods, sugar. Gluten intolerant so no gluten. Low fodmap diet for gut issues, daily leafy greens, a lot of protein to avoid blood sugar spikes after meals Apr 2 2024 - stopped daily propranolol. Think it was interfering with sleep and causing other side effects. May 23, 2024 - cross taper from mfr. liquid paroxetine to capsule form begun. 5ml liquid + 5 mg capsule (in place of 7.5ml dose of liquid). New doctor (deprescribing type) felt strongly that the mfr. liquid was/is an issue. June 11: 2.5ml liquid + 10mg capsule. June 16, 2024: fully on the capsules now, no liquid. supplements: magnesium glycinate 150mg; June 17 2024 : switched to magnesium citrate CALM powder to hopefully get things moving; Aug. 10, 2024 - switched back to magnesium glycinate and taking 200mg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed9674 Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 Dr. Kendrick seems to think that because 40% of people are able to stop SSRI with a fast taper we can just ignore the 60% that do not. 2 Supplements: Vit D3, Fish oil, Magnesium bisglycenate 200mg (when needed), Melatonin 1.25mg (when needed), Camomile tea (1 cup before bed), THC oil (0.03ml once a week, don't do this to yourself), Vit C 500mg a day Started effexor in 2011. Stopped effexor in 2012 (fast tamper). Got back on effexor in 2012. Tried stopping effexor again in 2014 (I'm not sure?), fast tamper again. Started effexor again in 2014. Switched to Escitalopram in 2016 I believe Stopped Escitalopram 10mg cold turkey on January 3 2024. Reinstated Escitalopram 5mg on april 2 2024. Down to 1mg on april 3 2024, 1.25mg on april 11 2024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xcaretuk Posted July 12 Author Share Posted July 12 10 hours ago, Bailey said: Does this Dr. Kendrick think Dr. Horowitz is too slow? Doesn’t agree with the cost of hyperbolic tapering in terms of GP workload etc and the cost of tapering clinics. Thinks that the majority of people can get off them easily. XX 1998(approx.) 20mg Paroxetine, 1998 -2015 various unsuccessful tapers, 2015 app 6 month taper to 0, 2015 approx 6 months later reinstated original brand after debilitating neurological delayed WD symptoms. Made worse after surgery.2023 Famotidine, Cetirizine, New Generic, muscle relaxer. March/April19th June, 2023 - 23rd July, 2023: Paroxetine Dosage reduced from 20mg to 15mg (on 15mg for 35 days), no significant symptoms. 24th July, 2023 - 26th July, 2023: Paroxetine Dosage reduced from 15mg to 12.5mg (on 12.5mg for 3 days), no significant symptoms. 27th July, 2023 - 3rd September, 2023: Paroxetine Dosage reduced from 12.5mg to 10mg (on 10mg for 39 days), no significant symptoms. 4th September, 2023 - 15th September, 2023: Paroxetine Dosage reduced from 10mg to 5mg i.e. 10mg every other day (on 5mg for 12 days), although not noted, must have experienced some symptoms, as I decided to return to previous 10mg dosage on the 16th September. 16th September, 2023 - 25th November, 2023: Dosage increased from 5mg to 10mg i.e. 10mg every day (on 10mg for 71 days), symptoms start dates: Late September sweating, shaking and right side upper back pain., 5th October 23: Upper back pain worsening,21st Oct 23: Night time symptoms: insomnia, nausea, sweats, headaches, some anxiety (predominantly in the mornings)27th Oct 23 admitted to hospital with 1st hypertensive crisis with severe frontal headache (now suspected of withdrawal ) BP 225/115. Admitted twice more with high BP . Doctors at a loss for cause. Given anti nausea, anti anxiety and sleeping tabs in hospital. . 1st Nov 23: , heart palpitations, some anxiety.. 7th Nov 23: Anxiety was now becoming more frequent (not severe). 26th November, 2023 Dosage increased from 10mg to 20mg possibly first time taking 20 mg of Extine, new manufacturer. Approx around this time came of antihistamines . 3rd Dec 23 - 18th Dec, 23: Started taking 7.5mg - 15mg of Oxazepam when anxiety became unbearable only took 8 in total now stopped. Symptoms now more severe have head pain rather than headache. .Electrical shocks through body overnight accompanied by head pain. Sheer terror,. Sore eyes. 23rd Dec 23: All symptoms remain the same i.e. severe except for the last 2 days where my anxiety levels have not been as severe/ extreme and somewhat manageable (later in the day).22 Jan 24 Have some windows now but still suffering from all day head pain, upper back pain, waking up inner restlessness and terror , nausea, intermittent feelings of fear and wake up 12.30 am every morning and sometimes up to 3 times a night with weird tingling down arms and back, pounding heart head pain and nausea. 2nd March 24, head pain/eye pain everyday and all day and & night wake ups.. Mild Akathisia early morning,, upper back pain, sweats. Anxiety much better. 21st April 24, drop 2.25% drop to 19.5 mg to test help with head /eye nerve pain and new symptom tinnitus. 12/5/24 19mg still eye/head/ back pain. Mild AKA AM. 2/6/24 18.93mg 9/8/24 18.04mg, 16/8/24 18mg, 19/9/24 17.6mg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed9674 Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 Which is... weird... considering all the workload coming from running a never ending list of test and exam to rule out and equaly long list of potential diseases being confused with PAWS. 1 Supplements: Vit D3, Fish oil, Magnesium bisglycenate 200mg (when needed), Melatonin 1.25mg (when needed), Camomile tea (1 cup before bed), THC oil (0.03ml once a week, don't do this to yourself), Vit C 500mg a day Started effexor in 2011. Stopped effexor in 2012 (fast tamper). Got back on effexor in 2012. Tried stopping effexor again in 2014 (I'm not sure?), fast tamper again. Started effexor again in 2014. Switched to Escitalopram in 2016 I believe Stopped Escitalopram 10mg cold turkey on January 3 2024. Reinstated Escitalopram 5mg on april 2 2024. Down to 1mg on april 3 2024, 1.25mg on april 11 2024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 15 minutes ago, Xcaretuk said: Doesn’t agree with the cost of hyperbolic tapering in terms of GP workload etc and the cost of tapering clinics. Thinks that the majority of people can get off them easily. XX good grief 1 Paxil Reductions: December 2022: Paxil 40 to 30mg (went OK); May 2023: Paxil 30 to 20 mg (went OK); Oct. 14, 2023: Paxil 15mg; Oct. 21, 2023: Paxil 10mg (done w/ conventional doc -- bottom dropped out 3 weeks later) Nov. 9, 2023: tried reinstating to 20mg but reacted very badly (probably kindling) November 18, 2023: 7.5ml (15mg equivalent) *switch to manufacturer's liquid, Novatium* Doctor switched me to 7.5ml liquid b/c tiny pills were splitting unevenly - further destabilization by both switching to liquid and changing dose at same time. November 2023 - present: *severe* withdrawal symptoms, akathisia Jan 6 2024 - stopped coffee and all forms of caffeine. Eliminated dairy, processed foods, sugar. Gluten intolerant so no gluten. Low fodmap diet for gut issues, daily leafy greens, a lot of protein to avoid blood sugar spikes after meals Apr 2 2024 - stopped daily propranolol. Think it was interfering with sleep and causing other side effects. May 23, 2024 - cross taper from mfr. liquid paroxetine to capsule form begun. 5ml liquid + 5 mg capsule (in place of 7.5ml dose of liquid). New doctor (deprescribing type) felt strongly that the mfr. liquid was/is an issue. June 11: 2.5ml liquid + 10mg capsule. June 16, 2024: fully on the capsules now, no liquid. supplements: magnesium glycinate 150mg; June 17 2024 : switched to magnesium citrate CALM powder to hopefully get things moving; Aug. 10, 2024 - switched back to magnesium glycinate and taking 200mg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 I spoke with a doctor recently who deeply appreciates and admires Dr. Horowitz and refers to his work. To the point that Dr. Kendrick thinks he's going too slowly with a taper, she said that, depending on the person, she may go even slower and make smaller reductions if that's what's warranted. 1 Paxil Reductions: December 2022: Paxil 40 to 30mg (went OK); May 2023: Paxil 30 to 20 mg (went OK); Oct. 14, 2023: Paxil 15mg; Oct. 21, 2023: Paxil 10mg (done w/ conventional doc -- bottom dropped out 3 weeks later) Nov. 9, 2023: tried reinstating to 20mg but reacted very badly (probably kindling) November 18, 2023: 7.5ml (15mg equivalent) *switch to manufacturer's liquid, Novatium* Doctor switched me to 7.5ml liquid b/c tiny pills were splitting unevenly - further destabilization by both switching to liquid and changing dose at same time. November 2023 - present: *severe* withdrawal symptoms, akathisia Jan 6 2024 - stopped coffee and all forms of caffeine. Eliminated dairy, processed foods, sugar. Gluten intolerant so no gluten. Low fodmap diet for gut issues, daily leafy greens, a lot of protein to avoid blood sugar spikes after meals Apr 2 2024 - stopped daily propranolol. Think it was interfering with sleep and causing other side effects. May 23, 2024 - cross taper from mfr. liquid paroxetine to capsule form begun. 5ml liquid + 5 mg capsule (in place of 7.5ml dose of liquid). New doctor (deprescribing type) felt strongly that the mfr. liquid was/is an issue. June 11: 2.5ml liquid + 10mg capsule. June 16, 2024: fully on the capsules now, no liquid. supplements: magnesium glycinate 150mg; June 17 2024 : switched to magnesium citrate CALM powder to hopefully get things moving; Aug. 10, 2024 - switched back to magnesium glycinate and taking 200mg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts